asked the Minister of Labour on what grounds it was decided that mine workers should be exempt from military service whereas many grades of agricultural workers are subject to compulsory call-up.

Underground coal mine workers could not in present circumstances we called up without serious effects on coal production. In agriculture, however, it has been possible to call up a proportion of the young men reaching age 18 without any serious effect on food production. The deferment arrangements safeguard these cases where a serious loss of food production might result.

While thanking my right hon. and learned Friend for that answer, may I ask him to bear in mind the serious concern felt in the agricultural community about these young men who have been called up? Will he be watchful of their re-employment on their release from the Services so that we may see how the call-up is affecting depopulation in the more distant areas?

I will certainly bear in mind their re-employment on their return, as my hon. and gallant Friend suggests, but I would point out that it is important that the agricultural community should make a contribution to the call-up. Out of an employed population of 600,000, the call-up accounts for only about 8,000.

Is the Minister aware that this decision is causing a great deal of annoyance among the National Farmers' Union of Scotland, who are asking those who represent agricultural constituencies to put this point of view before him? Is it not just as necessary for the agricultural workers to produce the food to feed the miners, otherwise the miners will not be able to increase coal production?

It is quite true that the production of food is of very great importance. It is for that reason that deferment is granted in cases where there would be a serious loss.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that in a case over which I have communicated to him, as a result of the decision taken the widow concerned has now decided to sell her stock, with consequent loss of food and possible unemployment for the men?

I am aware of the case to which my hon. Friend refers, although I did not know until now of the action which the lady intends to take. I can only say that the case was most anxiously considered in accordance with deferment arrangements.

In view of the persistently unsatisfactory nature of these replies, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Labour if, in view of the number of complaints of errors in call up for National Service, he will institute a full inquiry into the records kept in his Department and the results of medical boards, to ensure there is no possibility of errors in records.

As I stated in my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Barry (Mr. Gower) last Thursday, I am myself looking into the arrangements for call up in relation to recent complaints alleging the call-up of unfit men and I will certainly see that the point raised by the hon. Member is covered.

Will the Minister also let the House know whether there is any truth in the suggestion that new regulations, or new instructions, have been issued that medical boards must not turn down more than a certain percentage of men in each of the categories?

I am obliged to the hon. Lady for giving me an opportunity of saying that no such instructions have been given.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider a letter, if I send it to him, from a man in my constituency who volunteered for the R.A.F., was examined by a civilian medical board and passed as fit, also passed by a specialist, and went into the R.A.F. but was rejected as unfit the next day? He was called up in April this year and the same thing happened again; he was called up and was rejected the same night. This has now happened twice in four months to the same young man. It is very upsetting from the point of view of his civil employment and loss of clothing and other things which he had sold, such as his bicycle.

I will certainly look into the case if the hon. Member will send me details. I would take the opportunity of pointing out that it sometimes happens, necessarily, that a man rightly passed as fit for service goes to a particular Service which requires a different standard from the other Services. For instance, the R.A.F., for some purposes, want a different standard.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman keep in close touch with the Minister of Pensions on this matter and ask him whether he has any records of numbers of young men discharged from the Forces who apply for a pension but fail to get it on the ground that they were unfit when they were called up?

The hon. Member has drawn my attention to a matter with which I shall have to deal on a later Question. I do get the co-operation of the Services and the Ministry of Pensions in looking into what I might call early reject cases, which, I think, cover the cases the hon. Member has in mind.

Is there a close liaison between the Ministry of Labour and the Service Departments in marginal cases? Where there is the least doubt in the minds of doctors, do they get in touch with the Service concerned and the medical examiners there?

It is rather the other way round. There is medical examination by civilian doctors for the Ministry of Labour and, thereafter, as soon as the man gets into the Service-it varies between a fortnight and three months, or something of that sort—he is examined again by a Service doctor with all the results of my Ministry's examination before him. It is rather they who might consult us than we who consult them.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will hold an inquiry into the present medical board system operated by his Department in order to restore public confidence in this important Government machinery concerned with recruitment to the Armed Services.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will institute a Departmental inquiry into the operations of the medical examination boards for National Service men, which are the responsibility of his Department.

No, Sir. I am now engaged on the consultations with chairmen of medical boards, to which I referred in my answer to a supplementary question by the hon. and gallant Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton) on 16th July. I have already arranged for the boards to be reminded of the importance of making a full inquiry into the candidate's medical history and of paying full attention to consultants' reports. I am also amending the forms sent with the summonses to medical examination so as to draw attention to the fact that medical certificates or reports brought to the examination will be fully considered.

I am sure that almost everyone will appreciate what the Minister has said, but does he appreciate that the statement he made last week, in view of all the evidence available, was considered to be not good enough to meet the present situation? What he has said today will go further, but there will be a lot of interest in medical boards when the House reassembles.

I am obliged to the hon. Member for what he has said. I am anxious to do all I can to probe this matter because, although it is easy to say that the cases which come to my notice against the quarter of a million examined in a year are few, while there is one case I should like to track it down.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman draw the attention of his officials who may be investigating and advising him on the matter that a very high proportion of the men rejected by the Service Departments after being taken in are psychiatric cases and that it might well be a good thing to look into the question of having psychiatrists in attendance on local medical boards?

I will certanly bear that in mind. The hon. Member is quite right; about half the rejected cases are psychiatric cases.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will include in the call-up notice a statement that certificates from private doctors submitted on reporting for medical examination will be taken into consideration by the medical board.

Yes, Sir. Arrangements are already in hand for this to be done.

While thanking the right hon. and learned Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether these revised call-up notices, including the suggestion contained in the Question, are to be put into use immediately?

Yes, they are. It is a matter of getting them printed and sent out. The amendment made is in these terms:

"The Medical Board will give careful consideration to any medical evidence which you may bring with you regarding any illnesses or disabilities from which you have suffered."

Will the Minister place on the board an obligation to call for the medical history of the man?

The first doctor who does this examination has the task assigned to him of getting from the man all the particulars he can about his medical history. The difficulty is that we cannot get copies of medical documents of each man unless he brings them; there are no other sources from which to get them. We are making careful inquiries, and the effect of the suggestion, which the hon. and gallant Member put into his Question, will be that the man, before coming, will be encouraged to bring with him the documents which the board should see.

asked the Minister of Labour which medical boards are responsible for having approved the call up of John Campfield, 163, Crayford Way, Crayford, Kent, and Kenneth Davis, 31, Cedar Road, Slade Green, Kent, for Army service; and what are the names and ages of the members of each board.

John Campfield was examined by Lewisham No. 1 Medical Board and Kenneth Davis by Lewisham No. 2 Medical Board. Each of these boards is composed of five members drawn from panels of 11 and 13 practitioners respectively. I am not prepared to disclose the personal particulars requested of the members who examined the two men in question.

Did the right hon. and learned Gentleman see in the medical Press a fortnight ago an opinion that the ages of many people on the boards are too high, so that they are not able to do their job as well as they might?

I have not seen that, but the question of the age of members of the board is one we have constantly under review. As I said last week, they are not appointed after the age of 65, but many doctors of 70 and over do the job extremely well. Moreover, it is very hard to get people in regular practice to do this job.

asked the Minister of Labour what medical grade was given by his appropriate medical board in the case of Kenneth Davis, 31, Cedar Road, Slade Green, prior to his being allocated to the Army.

Grade I.

Does the Minister really think that a man who has a history of rheumatic fever, and who went in with such a degree of flat feet that the War Office sent him out unfit for military service, was a satisfactory man to be placed in Grade I?

It is difficult to go through the exact details of every case, but I have looked at this one. I found, as to the rheumatic fever, that he had it when he was a boy aged 9 or 10, in 1944. He was referred by the board to a consultant cardiologist in case there had been some effect on the heart. The consultant said that the heart was quite normal. So far as flat feet are concerned, the man said nothing about that when he was examined and it was not until he was in the Army that it was eventually discovered. That was not the cause of his discharge. He was discharged because of the infection of osteo-arthritis.

I wish to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible, as it is difficult to deal with it by Question and answer.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has now investigated the position relating to the calling up of Kenneth Wright, Leicester; and if he will make a statement thereon.

Yes, Sir. At his first National Service medical examination in October, 1952, this man informed the board that he had never suffered from tuberculosis and a mass miniature radiography examination of his chest revealed nothing abnormal. About a month later, he volunteered for the Royal Air Force, but was not accepted because an X-ray photograph of his chest showed shadows which were interpreted as indicating inactive tuberculosis.

While thanking the right hon. and learned Gentleman for the reply which he has given in respect of the cancellation, may I ask him whether he will take care, when a man comes forward in future to see that if he states that he has been under doctor's treatment, as this man did, and say that he has been discharged, the inquiry form to which the Minister referred in his reply to me a few days ago will be sent to his doctor, because it was not sent in this case? Will the Minister also inquire into another case of a similar nature which occurred in Leicester a few days ago?

If the hon. Member will give me particulars of the case, I certainly will. I think that I have dealt with the first part of his supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will now make a further statement on the medical grading and enlistment of Mr. Peter Frostick, Maldon. Essex.

Yes, Sir. Arrangements are in hand for Mr. Frostick's medical re-examination and I will write to the hon. Member as soon as the report is available. Meantime, no action is being taken to call Mr. Frostick for service.

While I accept the apology and explanation for the recent error in the previous answer sent to me privately by the Parliamentary Secretary, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that it is very disturbing that a mistake of that kind can occur in this kind of case in view of all the other recent individual cases of error there have been?

I hope I have shown the House and the hon. Member that I am alive to this and am doing my best to correct it.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange that the same conditions of calling up for National Service shall apply to workers for agricultural contractors as apply to agricultural workers.

No, Sir. The deferment arrangements are based on the contribution made by the particular worker to the production of food at an individual farm, and it would be impossible to apply this principle to men working for agricultural contractors.

Will the Minister bear in mind that contractors' labourers, although they are not actually permanent farm workers, are doing extremely important work and that there are cases, some of them in my constituency, in which difficulties have been caused in the middle of haymaking by the fact that they have been called up?

I am always anxious to do what I can to assist in this matter, but agricultural contractors cannot be fitted into this deferment arrangement, much as I regret it.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he is taking to safeguard continuity of industrial production during the forthcoming winter, in view of the renewed danger of power cuts arising from shortage of house coal causing householders to resort, promiscuously, to the use of electric fires and electric water heaters during peak hours; and whether he will arrange a 20 per cent. industrial load-spread, as in 1950 and 1951.

The Electricity sub-Committee of the Joint Consultative Committee has been considering the arrangements that will be required in regard to spreading the electricity load next winter. Its report will be published next week.

While thanking my right hon. and learned Friend for that very comprehensive answer, may I ask him whether, when this report is published next week, he will consider drawing the attention of both sides of industry urgently to the grave shortage of house coal which is likely to confront us next winter, with the consequent special call on the use of electricity for domestic purposes which may—as not in previous years—create rather unusual demands at peak hours and interfere thereby with industrial production?

I raised the point to which my hon. Friend has referred at the meeting of the National Joint Advisory Council yesterday, and both sides of industry have it very much in mind.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that a contribution could be made to this problem if unemployed workers in the Falkirk and Stirlingshire area could be put to work to produce more fuel-saving appliances? There is great redundancy and unemployment there and these are the very appliances which could enable householders to use less coal during the winter.

I will look into that point.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that potential labour is lost to employers due to insurance companies refusing to insure the over 40 age groups; and if he will institute an inquiry to discover how this obstacle can be overcome.

The effect of pension schemes on the employment of older persons is already under consideration by the National Advisory Committee on the Employment of Older Men and Women. which will shortly submit their First Report to me. The Report will be published in the autumn.

Is not the assumption in this Question, that insurance companies can interfere in the contract of service, erroneous? The employer has a right to take on people who are over the age stipulated in insurance contracts and can exercise the right regardless of anything in the contract?

I think the hon. Member is under a misapprehension. There is difficulty in relation to employing older people because of the difficulties of pension schemes and I think the hon. Lady had that in mind in putting down the Question, if I do not misinterpret her.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has any further statement to make regarding the industrial dispute at the Medical Supply Association, Park Royal, N.W.10.

The observations of the firm on the complaint that they are not observing the fair wages clause have now been referred to me by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health in accordance with normal practice, and I am arranging for my officers to approach the parties again.

Do I gather from that that there has been no progress in the settlement of this industrial dispute? Is the Minister aware that this firm is now advertising for non-union labour and that up to last week-end 22 non-union men had been engaged, some through the facilities of the Minister's Department? Will the Minister do what he can to try to prevent this firm behaving in this stupid and prehistoric manner?

I understand that in their observations to my right hon. Friend they have denied that they are breaking the fair wages clause. That is the very point where we can come in and see what the position is, and my regional industrial officer is now engaged on that task.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the difficulty which tuberculosis after-care committees are experiencing in their efforts to find employment for ex-tuberculosis patients even when such people are negative and free from infection; and what proposals he has to make to deal with the position.

I know there is difficulty but the disablement resettlement officers at the exchanges are achieving considerable success, in conjunction with employers, and under medical advice, in placing ex-tuberculous persons in employment suitable to them. They will continue to strive to improve the position and to overcome the obstacles, one of which is the common fear of infection on the part of fellow-workers. For those in need of employment under special conditions some provision is made by Remploy factories, and in workshops provided by local authorities or voluntary bodies.

Is the Minister aware that it is, of course, lay prejudice which is responsible for the difficulty, and will he use his influence with the B.B.C. to permit broadcasts to take place so that workers can be educated as well as employers?

I shall be very glad of any assistance of that kind, if it comes.

asked the Minister of Labour what factors have caused the recent rise in the cost-of-living index.

Mr. Willey.

On a point of order. Before this Question is answered, may I ask, as this explanation is always given in the Ministry of Labour Gazette, why this Question was admitted to the Order Paper?

The Question asks for the factors which

"have caused the recent rise in the cost-of-living index."

But the monthly edition of the Ministry of Labour Gazette contains this information and a paragraph is given explaining the reasons for the change. That is available to hon. Members in the Library.

The rise of one point in the Interim Index of Retail Prices between May and June was due mainly to increases in the prices of cooking apples, oranges, corned beef, tea and fish, which were partly offset by lower prices for some vegetables and for eggs. There were also, in some areas, increases in the prices of coal, increases in the average charges for electricity and gas, and increased bus fares. Some of these changes between May and June were seasonal.

Will the Minister bring this report to the notice of the Minister of Food, because he seems to have a blind spot about tea?

I constantly bring these matters to the attention of my colleagues.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the extension to Sutton Annexe, Kingston-upon-Hull, although generally designed for surgical cases, contains no operating theatre or accommodation for nursing staff, and that, as a consequence, the extension has now been designated for medical and children's cases for which there is no waiting list while surgical cases for which there is a long waiting list cannot be dealt with; and what steps he is taking to provide the necessary surgical facilities.

The Regional Hospital Board are considering temporarily allocating these beds for medical cases until they can provide an additional operating theatre. This and the nurses' accommodation will be provided as soon as details are settled and the work can be fitted into the Board's capital programme. Some of the new beds will be used for children because of the present deficiency of children's beds in the area.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of complaints that large number of mothers are not receiving analgesia, or anaesthesia in childbirth; and what steps he is taking to see that these benefits are fully enjoyed by all who desire and require them.

While my right hon. Friend has seen a number of allegations about inadequate provision of anaesthesia or analgesia, he has had only two complaints from mothers in the last two years. In areas where the administration of gas and air by midwives is below average the local health authorities are aware of the position, and as the hon. Member will know, the proportion of such administrations is steadily increasing from year to year.

Does the hon. Lady know how many mothers in Britain are not receiving analgesia in childbirth?

Without notice I certainly could not give the hon. Lady that information, but she is aware that the availability is increasing; and the allegations far exceed any evidence which we have that mothers are being denied it when they wish it. They do not all wish it.

Is the hon. Lady aware that in the reply given to me last week she specifically stated that there was no knowledge of how many mothers were not having analgesia in childbirth? Is it not astonishing, considering the party propaganda which went on during the régime of the last Government on this particular subject, that we should now be told that no information is available? Does the President of the Board of Trade know about it?

I think the hon. Lady is exaggerating the information she has been given in answer to various Questions. The figures she has been given concern gas and air administered by midwives. They do not take into effect alternative methods provided by doctors, so that it is not possible to give conclusive figures.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement on the recent resignation of the chairman of the Walsall Health Executive Council.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is acquainted with the circumstances of the resignation of Alderman John Whiston from the Walsall Health Executive Council; and whether he will order an inquiry.

The resignation was the personal decision of the chairman. The matter is primarily one for the Executive Council and it is hardly for my right hon. Friend to make any statement on it, neither does he think an inquiry is called for.

Is the hon. Lady aware that that can only be considered as a most unsatisfactory answer? On this Executive Council the medical profession had voting power at this time and the doctor personally concerned voted in his own defence. How can the hon. Lady defend those sort of "goings-on"—if I may use that term—in a committee for which she is responsible?

I am not defending anything in my reply. The former chairman resigned before this election. The remedy as to who the Executive Council wish as their chairman lies entirely in the hands of the Executive Council. Under the 1949 Act they choose their own chairman. I am sure the House would regard it as a retrograde step if my right hon. Friend interfered with that free selection. If there is any criticism, it lies with the eight local authority members who were not there on this occasion to vote. They had ample notice of the meeting and if they felt that the matter was of sufficient importance they could have had an alternative date in order that they might be there.

Does not the hon. Lady consider that this matter raises a question of general principle? Is she aware that members of local authorities may have overriding obligations which prevent their attendance on a particular day? Does not she think it wrong that the professional members of this body should be in a position to override the nonprofessional members in a matter of this sort?

It is not a case of overriding the non-professional members. The Act which, after all, was instigated by hon. Gentlemen opposite when they were in power, lays down a membership of 25. Of that 25 members, 12 are professional, five are appointed by the Minister and eight by the local health authority. If the local health authority members thought it important that they should be present to choose their chairman they could have asked for an alternative date.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that at a meeting of the Walsall Health Executive Council, held on 21st April last, one of the professional members of the Council voted on a question arising out of a complaint against himself; and what action he proposes to take.

The matter is one for consideration by the Executive Council.

Is not the hon. Lady aware that this Question refers to the same meeting as that referred to in Questions Nos. 23 and 30? Does she not consider it grossly unethical that a professional member of the Council should vote on a matter in which he was personally interested? Does not she agree that such a vote vitiates the whole decision reached by the meeting, and is not it the duty of the Minister of Health in these circumstances to ask the Council to reconsider the subject matter of that meeting without any interested parties voting?

I have great sympathy with the point of view of the hon. Member, on which he has exchanged correspondence with me, but he will be aware that there are some matters governed strictly by regulation and others which are matters of practice. For instance, in this House a Member declares his interest. He is not bound to do it, but he does it in accordance with the tradition of the House. A similar point arises here. Subject to any points covered by regulation, the procedure—including the voting procedure—of executive councils is for them to decide for themselves and to determine by their standing orders or otherwise. So far as appears from the reports of this meeting it did not conflict with their regulations.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will arrange for further investigations in the fluoridation of piped water supplies in selected areas in Britain, in view of the report of the United Kingdom Mission to the United States of America and Canada.

My right hon. Friend is carefully studying the Mission's report. It is still too early to make a statement.

In view of the fact that this matter has already been considered for a long time, and there have been a number of investigations in this country, may we hope for an earlier decision?

The hon. Member will appreciate that this is a far-reaching and important decision to arrive at. The report was not published until 9th July and that evidence must be fully considered before my right hon. Friend makes a statement.

Would the hon. Lady agree that in most cases the users of a private water supply have no other source of supply, and that if they object to chlorination their only alternative is to do without? Would she agree that a heavy responsibility rests on the authority supplying the water to be satisfied that this process is not in any way harmful and that the objections are not justified?

That is one of the points which must be taken into account.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been achieved in dealing with the applications of people in Wales in need of ordinary hearing aids and bone-conducting hearing aids, respectively; and if he will make a statement.

Up to 30th June last, 20,591 patients had been fitted with air-conduction and 216 with bone-conduction aids. The waiting lists were then 1,348 and 132 respectively compared with a total waiting list of 2,442 six months earlier.

While thanking the Minister for his reply, may I ask when he anticipates that the others may be sent out?

I expect to get rid of the waiting list altogether in about nine months.

asked the Minister of Health how many applications for hearing aids have been transferred from Sunderland to Middlesbrough; the number outstanding at the latter centre; and the average waiting time.

One thousand and ninety-eight applications have been transferred from Sunderland, and 349 have come from other hospitals. 1,061 were outstanding on 18th July. Those now being supplied have been waiting since November, 1951, but it is hoped to clear all outstanding applications within nine months.

Can the Minister say how long this waiting time is compared with other parts of the country?

It is difficult to give an accurate figure because the station at Middlesbrough, as the hon. Gentleman knows, has just been opened, but I am informed that its rate of issue is slightly above the national average.

asked the Minister of Health the number of full and part-time specialist appointments made by the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board during each of the years 1949,1950,1951, 1952 and during the six months ended 30th June, 1953; and by how many the specialist hospital staff in this region have increased in each of these years.

I regret that the information asked for in the first part of the Question is not available. With permission I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table giving the available information on the second part.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the developments in the last two years have not been far greater than in the two years preceding the take-over by the present Government; and is it not highly misleading to give the sort of answer which he gave to Questions on this matter asked last week? Should not such misleading answers be left to his hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Miss Ward)?

There was nothing misleading about it. The reply I gave arose out of a supplementary question put to me by my hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Miss Ward), which was on

Does not the Minister agree that in both the capital expenditure and the appointment of specialist staff in a Newcastle area there has been no development of the character he described?

No, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend ask the hon. Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, East (Mr. Blenkinsop) why it was that when the hon. Member was Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health in the Labour Government we could not get a fair allocation of capital expenditure for our region when other regions were getting more than we were and we were being defrauded of the money we ought to have had?

rose——

Order. I do not think that that is a question for the Minister.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will present a White Paper reviewing the effects of the charges for appliances and treatment in the hospital and general practitioners services imposed in 1951 and 1952.

No, Sir. I think that this information can best be given by Parliamentary Question and answer.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think that in view of the resolution passed by the British Medical Association it would be better to give Parliament an opportunity to judge the effect of these charges, and that a factual statement put before us during the Recess would be of great assistance to us in making up our minds? Has his attention been drawn to a statement by Dr. A. J. Macleod, when the resolution was passed by the British Medical Association, to the effect that a recent speech by the Minister of Health suggested that he was anything but confident about the Is, charge? Are we not entitled to more information about that?

On the first point, I should have thought that clearly it was better that a matter that can be put to me for Oral answer once a week and Written answer every day would enable far more information to be given to the House than the publication of a White Paper which would be out of date within a week of its issue and would have to be constantly brought up to date. On the observation made at the annual meeting, I am delighted to see this additional proof of the slow conversion of the Opposition to the point of view of those called Macleod, who come from the Western Isles.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is most important that the House should have the fullest information about the effect of these charges? Does he not recognise that the House welcomes the conversion of the British Medical Association to the point of view expressed always from this side?

asked the Minister of Health what advice he has given, or what assistance he proposes to render to, the Wolverhampton Hospital Management Committe who, as a consequence of being unable to fill house posts in the Royal Hospital, Wolverhampton, have been compelled to circularise all industrial first aid posts in their area asking them to avoid sending patients other than urgent cases to this hospital.

I am having inquiry made and will write to the hon. Member. I am afraid that the shortage of junior medical staff in hospitals is general in the region.

While realising that the Minister cannot possibly have concluded his inquiries yet, may I ask him whether he would agree that it is an extremely serious situation in a heavy industrial district of this kind when industrial first-aid posts are asked to undertake the obligation of deciding whether or not cases are serious? Does not he agree that this is disconcerting, and will not he do his best to speed up the inquiry and, if necessary, give help to the Wolverhampton Hospital Management Committee in its admittedly difficult task?

The letter that the hon. Member refers to was sent only to firms that are known to have staffed first-aid posts, usually with medical assistance as well. I should have thought that it was useful for them to know the difficult position which exists at the Royal Hospital, Wolverhampton. I will try to see if there are local circumstances which make it easier for myself or the regional hospital board to help in this matter.

asked the Minister of Health to what professional organisations was the memorandum on supply of nursing staff for mental hospitals and mental deficiency institutions submited before issue.

The memorandum was based on a study of the recommendations made by the Minister of Labour's National Advisory Council on the Recruitment of Nurses and Midwives and my Standing Mental Advisory Committee and Standing Nursing Advisory Committee. As the views of all the professional organisations concerned are fully represented on these advisory bodies, it was not considered necessary to refer the memorandum to the organisations before issue.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that some anxiety has been caused by the issue of this memorandum, especially because it is felt that it may reduce the standard—or suggest an encouragement of the reduction of the standard—of mental hospitals when, if anything, we need to improve and not reduce it?

That was the last thing that was in the minds of the very distinguished members of this Committee, and the last thing, as I am sure the hon. Member knows, that was in my mind.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that on this occasion I am in agreement with the hon. Gentleman the Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, East (Mr. Blenkinsop)? Will he bear in mind that this is a matter of principle, that the principle of consultation is a very wise one, and that in future we hope it will be followed more by his Department?

On the issue of consultation, which is a slightly different one, all these bodies—and there are scores of them—are represented, either by nominees or by consultation, on the three bodies to which I have referred. It is surely unnecessary after that to refer a document giving advice to all the professional organisations concerned.

asked the Minister of Health how many members of the General Nursing Council have had experience of mental nursing or mental hospital administration.

Two members of the Council have had mental nursing experience and four have had experience of mental hospital administration. In addition, five members of the statutory Mental Nurses' Committee of the Council have had mental nursing experience and one has had experience in mental hospital administration.

Is the hon. Lady aware that the nursing situation in mental hospitals is deteriorating and may soon be quite critical, and that the General Nursing Council, who could do so much to help in this matter, seem to be unaware of the urgency of the problem? Is the hon. Lady satisfied that this is an adequate representation of the mental health field and, if not, will she ask her right hon. Friend to do something to increase it?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is a little unjust to the G.N.C. They are aware of the gravity of the problem. They are certainly being pressed by my right hon. Friend to find all possible methods to solve it.

Will the hon. Lady consult representatives of the Ministry on the General Nursing Council, because it is becoming the opinion of hospital management committees that the suggested alterations in the regulations for the recruitment of nurses that are being pressed by the General Nursing Council are having a serious effect upon the recruitment of nurses?

asked the Minister of Education what steps she proposes to take to see that children of five years of age and over for whom school places are not available receive the supply of free milk which would be available to them if they were attending school.

Local education authorities have no power to provide milk for children who are not in attendance at school.

Does not the right hon. Lady realise that in addition to the injustice of not being able to receive education, these children are denied other benefits? Does she not know that the children of some families in poor circumstances would get free dinners if school places were available for them? Does she really think that the complacent answer she has given is satisfactory, in view of the urgency of the matter?

The next Question on the Order Paper, in the name of the hon. Gentleman, deals with the number of children unable to attend school because places are not available.

Is the Minister aware that it would be possible for her to give the necessary powers to local authorities to deal with these children, and that the number of children concerned is not as important as the principle—or no more important?

Local authorities have no power if the children are not at school. What the hon. Gentleman suggests would need legislation.

asked the Minister of Education how many children of five years of age and over are unable to attend school because places are not available for them.

I know of about 660 such children whose admission to school has been postponed until next term.

Does that mean that the right hon. Lady can give an assurance that after next term there will be no children of five years of age for whom school places are not available?

I can, I think, give the assurance that this number of children, who are not being taken into school until the beginning of the term after they become five, will be admitted. I cannot say definitely whether there will be others next term who will have to wait until the term after they are five.

asked the Minister of Education if she is aware that 59 classes in infants' schools in Slough and Eton have between 40 and 44 children, that 14 have between 45 and 49 children, and that one has a class of over 50 children; that 55 classes in junior schools have between 40 and 44 children and 11 between 45 and 49 children; that 10 classes in senior schools have between 40 and 44 children; and if the building of the new schools planned for Slough and Eton can be expedited to meet this overcrowding.

Yes, Sir. I recognise the importance of completing quickly new schools in this area, and I shall continue to give the authority all possible help in carrying through the substantial school building programmes that I have authorised.

While expressing appreciation of the promised programme for Slough, may I ask whether the right hon. Lady will look into the question at Eton, where, among the children of ordinary residents, there is the worst case of overcrowding? Can she give an assurance that schools will be available for the children who are coming with the 17,000 people to the London County Council estates?

I quite agree that the biggest problem is that of the London County Council estates, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that seven new schools or extensions of schools have been completed since March, 1950, three are under construction, three are to be started during the present programme year, and six have been included in the local authority's programme for 1954.

asked the Minister of Education if she is satisfied with the arrangements for getting Hopwas, Staf-fordshire, schoolchildren to their Tam worth schools.

I assume that the hon. Member refers to the arrangements to be introduced next term. I have no reason to think that they will not be satisfactory.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that public opinion is coming to the conclusion that not only distance, but the incidence of traffic on the roads, should be considered in this matter? Many parents are acutely anxious about their children travelling on roads on which the traffic factor constitutes a very great danger.

That is taken into consideration by the local authorities for any exceptional cases, and I would remind the hon. Gentleman that there is a public bus service between Hopwas and Tamworth, and that parents are at liberty to pay their children's fares if they wish to do so.

asked the Minister of Education how many parents and guardians have been prosecuted during the last 18 months for failing to send their children to school.

Local education authorities are responsible for administering the law relating to school attendance, and I have no means of securing this information without asking all of them, which I should not consider justifiable.

Does not the right hon. Lady think it would be a good thing if it worked both ways, and that those who fail to provide places for children should be prosecuted equally with those who fail to send their children to school?

If the hon. Gentleman is referring to the entrance of children of five years into school, if he will look at the Act of 1948 he will see that they need not go into school during the term, but, if it would be more convenient, they can go in at the beginning of the term after they have reached the age of five.

asked the Minister of Education what advice she has now given to local education authorities about the rebuilding or improvement of slum schools.

Authorities remain free to use for the improvement of old schools a substantial proportion of the resources allocated to them for carrying out minor capital works, but, under present conditions, I cannot authorise them to carry out major building projects designed to replace unsatisfactory premises.

Is the Minister not aware that no real effort is being made by the Government at all in this matter, and that there should be a larger allocation for this purpose? How can she tolerate such conditions as exist when school rooms are described as "zoos" and school playgrounds as "squelching quagmires" or "dust baths"?

Yes, but the best way of dealing with this, as I think the hon. Gentleman will agree, is to build more quickly more new schools, and that has been done in the last two years at a greater rate than ever before.

asked the Minister of Education if she is aware of the over crowding in some of the schools in Bristol, and of the attempts being made by the education committee to remedy the position by building new schools; and why she objected to and turned down three of the schools which they planned in their programme for 1954–55.

Yes, Sir. I was unable to include these three schools in the authority's programme for 1954–55 because I was not satisfied that they were required to meet the minimum needs described in Circular 245. I am considering a request by the authority for the addition of one of these schools to the programme I have approved.

Is the Minister aware that the education authority of Bristol is making a serious attempt to deal with a very difficult problem, that at her request they prepared plans for 1954–55 for nine new schools and that the Minister turned down 33 per cent. of that programme? As they regard this as a rebuff from the Minister, will she reconsider the whole of this matter?

I am in communication with the authority, particularly concerning one of these schools, and I should like first to discuss that with the authority.

asked the Minister of Education if, in view of the shortage of secondary school places in the excepted district of Newcastle-under-Lyme, she will take action to assist the local education authority to complete the Bradwell Secondary Modern School more rapidly; and if she will cancel the postponement order on the Chesterton Secondary Modern School.

The need to complete this school as quickly as possible is recognised. Shortages of bricks and of labour are delaying the building work, but my officers and those of the local education authority are doing their best to overcome these difficulties. I am now discussing with the authority what provision for Chesterton should be made in the 1954–55 building programme.

Is the right hon. Lady aware of the very overcrowded state of the existing secondary schools in New-castle-under-Lyme, of the excessive and wasteful travelling imposed on many children, and of the almost insuperable difficulty of reorganisation confronting the local education authority? Will she therefore reconsider her refusal to approve any project at all in Newcastle-under-Lyme in this financial year?

I have already pointed out to the hon. Gentleman the difficulty about the particular school which was started in 1951. I am told there have been difficulties about work on the foundations, but I am glad to think that the local authority is getting on more quickly with the school now. As for the school for Chesterton, I am discussing that proposition with the authority.

asked the Minister of Education her estimate of the rise in the secondary school population in the excepted district of Newcastle-under-Lyme between 1946 and 1956; how many new secondary school places have been provided since 1946 and what action she is taking to ensure that there is an adequate number of secondary places for the children requiring them.

The number of children aged 11 and over in maintained schools other than special schools in Newcastle-under-Lyme increased from 3,773 in January, 1946, to 5,009 in January, 1953, and the local education authority expect it to rise to about 5,500 by January, 1956. About 1,000 secondary school places have been provided since 1946, and 450 more are under construction. I shall include some secondary school provision in Newcastle-under-Lyme in the 1954–55 building programme, but I cannot say how much until discussions with the authority are completed.

Can I take it as a definite undertaking from the Minister that at least two projects will be approved in Newcastle-under-Lyme in the next financial year?

I have already stated that I am now in discussion with the local authority about this particular project.

asked the Minister of Education what evidence she has to explain the causes for the decline in the intake of graduates into the teaching profession; and what steps she proposes to take in order to correct this position.

There has been no such decline in recent years. In each of the last four years, there has been a net increase in the number of graduate teachers employed in grant-aided schools and establishments, with a greater increase in 1951–52 than in the three previous years.

Will my right hon. Friend look at the intake into secondary schools? Does she not agree that there is a considerable shortage of graduates, particularly science and mathematics graduates, because the majority of such graduates are going into industry and not to the teaching profession?

Certainly, we do want to get more graduates for science and mathematics, and I am glad to say that there has been an increase—not a decrease. I quite agree that the more we can attract these graduates to teaching the better, but I would point out to the hon. Gentleman that in 1950–51 there was a net increase in the number of graduates of 1,400, and, in 1951–52, a net increase of 1,800

asked the Minister of Education why permission to build an infant and junior school at Mowmacre Hill, Leicester, and an infant and junior school at Braunstone Frith, Leicester, has been refused; and what alternative plans she has to provide the 580 and 820 places which were to be used at Mowmacre Hill and Braunstone Frith schools respectively.

When the new school accommodation at present under construction or authorised has come into use, the authority will have at their disposal 4,000 more primary school places than at present. On present information, I consider that if use is made, so far as is necessary, of the measures suggested in Circular 245, this accommodation should be sufficient to meet the estimated increase in the number of children and the needs of new housing estates.

That is not really an answer to the Question. May I ask the Minister why, when she approached the Leicester authorities to give her details of their requirements, she emphasised the particular importance of having schools in new housing areas? In view of that, why has she now refused permission to build them? Is she aware that there will be no places for these children if these schools are not provided?

I am not aware that there will be no places for these children if the particular schools referred to are not provided. As I have said, there will be an extra 4,000 primary school places.

asked the Prime Minister if he will consider the possibility of shorter Parliamentary Sessions in order that Members of Parliament may have greater opportunities of earning a living outside politics and of feeling the effect of legislation enacted, as an alternative to increasing the salaries of Members of Parliament.

I fear that the calls on Parliamentary time tend to increase every year and make any appreciable reduction in the length of Parliamentary Sessions unlikely in the near future.

Since it is obvious that Members of Parliament cannot pay their own expenses and live out of £1,000 a year gross, at what figure do the Government consider the salary should be if Members have to be full-time professional politicians?

This Question has nothing to do with salaries, but with Parliamentary time.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that only directors, lawyers and journalists would be able to supplement their Parliamentary allowance in the way suggested by the Question? Does he believe that on purely financial grounds Parliament should become the preserve of the wealthy and the professional classes?

rose——

The hour is too late for a discussion on this matter now.