asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he can yet state the result of the traffic check to assess the current needs for the completion of the Dartford-Purfleet tunnel carried out by Metropolitan Police officers and representatives of the London, Kent and Essex County Councils.

I understand that the anaylsis of the results of this survey has not yet been completed.

:In view of the great importance of this scheme and the great interest in it, can the Minister state when it is likely that it will be completed?

:The figures from the Kent County Council have been received and those from Essex are expected shortly. It will then take about a week for the Divisional Road Engineer to check the results and, after that, it is hoped that the survey will be completed.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware of the fact that the intermittent flashing amber beacons on zebra crossings are tending to confuse motorists who drive up to them and thereby increase the possibilities of road accidents; and whether he will change the system of lighting up zebra crossings.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Mr. Shepherd), the hon. Member for Islington, North (Mr. Fienburgh) and the hon. and gallant Member for Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton) on 18th November.

Whilst thanking the Minister for that reply and informing him that I have looked through those answers, may I ask whether he or the Ministry have consulted the Road Research Laboratory on the effect of these flashing beacons? They say that there has been a 14 per cent. decrease in the number of deaths of pedestrians as a result of the installation of zebra crossings. Would the Minister be prepared to finance a little research into the use of these flashing beacons? Does he not agree that that research could be conducted by the Road Research Laboratory and that funds from motor taxation could be raided for the purpose?

:These flashing beacons were introduced at the suggestion of the Road Research Laboratory.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if, in view of the danger of accidents in Eton High Street, where an elderly man and a college boy have recently been knocked down, he will take steps to reduce the speed limit to 15 miles per hour and to have a notice displayed between the Playing Fields and the Burning Bush reminding motorists that there is a speed limit.

I am doubtful whether either of these measures would reduce accidents on this road, but I am having a special investigation made and will communicate again with the hon. Member.

:Will the Minister speed up this investigation? Is he aware that this little country road, passing between antique shops, has become a major traffic road between north and south? Is he aware that the chairman of the transport committee of the urban district council and a master at Eton College says:

"…the dangers of Eton High Street and of the College area are perfectly frightful and I am very anxious lest some extremely serious accident should take place. For example, some 20 boys"—

Speech.

:These supplementary questions are really getting too long.

I accept that at once, Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister aware that there is danger, not only to the College boys, but to the boys of the elementary school and the old folk from the alms houses? Will he do something speedily in this matter to prevent accidents?

I have made myself familiar with the traffic problems that exist on this road.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will authorise expenditure to assist the travelling road safety display, at present operated by Mr. A. H. Pollitt, 12, Browning Road, Wadsley Bridge, Sheffield, 6, in order that his display may be made available throughout the country, thereby helping to reduce the rising toll of road accidents.

:Local authorities who wish to hire travelling road safety displays can obtain a grant of 50 per cent. towards the cost from the Ministry. Should any local authority think it worth while to hire Mr. Pollitt's exhibition, these arrangements would apply.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what major road improvements, costing over £500,000 each, have been commenced, completed, or contemplated in Scotland in the current financial year; and on what similar projects can a start next year be undertaken.

:In the current year, none, Sir. I cannot say what schemes can be started next year until we know what funds will be available.

:Is not this a sorry state of affairs? Is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary not aware that he said last week that priorities were indicated in each year's Estimates, and are we to take it that the Government do not think that a single scheme in Scotland is worth priority to the extent of £500,000? Is the hon. Gentleman further aware that each of the first four years of the Forth Road Bridge project would involve less than £500,000, and does he not think it desirable that at least a start should be made on this very desirable project?

:The hon. Member will have to await the publication of the Estimates, and, without making any commitment, I hope that it may be possible to incorporate some substantial schemes for the benefit of Scotland next year.

:Would the hon. Gentleman ask the Minister to look very carefully at some of the very dangerous roads which urgently need improvement, such as the main road between Glasgow and Stirling, which is a really disastrous road so far as traffic is concerned? There should be some arrangement of an urgent nature to get it put right.

:I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and we have that road very much in mind.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how the priorities concerning major transport projects in Scotland in the financial year 1954–55 will differ from those of the cur rent year; and what are the reasons for such differences.

I cannot say what priorities will be next year until we know what funds will be available.

:Can the Minister give us a specific undertaking that a definite list of priorities will be indicated in the forthcoming Estimates, and can he indicate whether there is any prospect at all of the Forth Road Bridge featuring in it?

:I think the hon. Gentleman is quite capable of understanding the Estimates when they are produced.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when it is intended to commence work on the Loch Ainort-Seonsor diversion road; and when it is expected that this will be completed.

As I have already informed my hon. Friend, it will not be possible to include this scheme in the £1 million Highland programme which is to be carried out during the next three years. It will, however, be reconsidered in the light of whatever funds may be available for Highland roads after the expiration of the present programme.

Do I understand that answer to mean that it will not be started for another three years? May I ask my hon. Friend to bear in mind the Kyleakin-Portree road, by which most people come on to and leave Skye? This road is not only very important to the tourist industry—and most of the services are at present in a shocking state—but in its present state it is a considerable incubus to the present population of Skye.

:We are aware of the importance of this road. I did not mean to convey that in no circumstances will work upon it begin during the next three years. I meant to say that it is not one of the works which can be undertaken out of the present £1 million grant. When the Estimates are presented that will be considered with other Scottish projects which are also of considerable importance.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when trooping was first reserved for the independent charter operators.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when the nationalised civil aviation corporations were asked not to tender for trooping so that the independent charter operators could tender without fear of competition from the nationalised corporations.

The reservation of trooping to independent charter operators, so far as it exists, derives from the principle, established for many years, that charter work is only incidental to the main business of the Corporations. The intention which my right hon. Friend announced to the House on 27th May, 1952, that the Corporations would not maintain aircraft specifically for charter work naturally precludes them from tendering for regular trooping flights but they are not thereby debarred from tendering for ad hoc troop movements.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether he would agree that the statement by his right hon. Friend on 27th October, reported in column 2748 of the Official Report, was therefore inaccurate?

:As the hon. Member will admit, my right hon. Friend has already written to him fully on this subject. What my right hon. Friend had in mind when he made that statement was that under the late Government trooping contracts were always then placed by competitive tender, a practice which, for various reasons, naturally gave independent operators certain competitive advantages.

Would it not be better for the Parliamentary Secretary to withdraw the statement made by the Minister that trooping was reserved first of all by the Socialist Government, as that was inaccurate?

I do not know whether the hon. Member has seen the letter my right hon. Friend wrote. I think that it would be wrong for me to withdraw something which my right hon. Friend said, because I have indicated clearly to the House that my right hon. Friend was trying to impart an intention, and if the statement was misunderstood the letter to the hon. Member for Welling borough (Mr. Lindgren) was intended to try to clear up the matter.

I accept that, but will not the Parliamentary Secretary say quite simply that the statement that the reservation of trooping for independent operators was decided by the Socialist Party was wrong?

It did amount to the reservation of trooping contracts to independent operators, but, in so far as my right hon. Friend may have misled the House, I know that he would wish me to withdraw and correct the impression which was given.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps are being taken to avoid the gradual reduction of activity and skilled staff at Renfrew Airport as a result of the present policy of concentrating all overhaul and maintenance work on Elizabethans and Viscounts in London Airport and all similar work on Pionairs and Vikings in Renfrew Airport with consequent lessening activity in the latter as the older types of aircraft are sold.

:I understand that the management of British European Airways and representatives of the trade unions concerned are in consultation on this matter through the machinery of the National Joint Council for Civil Air Transport. No decisions on the future activity of the Renfrew maintenance base will be reached before further meetings have been held.

Would the Joint Parliamentary Secretary be willing to pass on to this Joint Committee the following considerations: the importance of maintaining an aircraft industry in Scotland, the threat that exists to that industry and the need for some alternative work at Renfrew Airport to take the place of the work that is departing because of the sale of the older types of aircraft?

:In so far as those problems concern the consultations which are now taking place, I am quite sure that they are well aware of them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this seems to indicate a change of policy on the part of B.E.A.C. and that there is genuine apprehension in Scotland that this industry may be lost to Scotland?

:Before my hon. Friend answers, might I ask him whether he is in consultation with the Service Departments as to the great importance of the dispersal of aircraft work and the strong inadvisability of concentrating it especially within easy bombing range of the Continent?

These matters are all well known and are under consideration.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation why he has accepted the findings of the Italian authorities on the Hermes air crash off Sicily.

:My right hon. Friend is in general agreement with the findings of the report. The fact that Italian accident investigation procedure does not include a similar provision to that made in Regulation 7 (5) of the United Kingdom Regulations is only relevant in this case to publication.

:Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the operating company were not allowed to have a representative at the inquiry into one of their own aircraft, nor were the survivors consulted by the Italian Commission in arriving at their conclusion and producing a report which the Minister himself says is a violation of elementary British justice? Is he aware that this cannot be regarded as the end of the matter?

Answer.

Is not the Parliamentary Secretary proposing to deal with this matter?

:I have nothing to add to what I have just said, and I made a very full statement on the subject the other day during the adjournment debate.

With respect, could the Parliamentary Secretary tell us why he refuses to hold an inquiry himself?

:I thought I made it very clear the other day in the statement I made to the House. If, on reading it, the hon. Gentleman finds that there is any misunderstanding or anything about which he is not clear, perhaps he will put down a Question.

:With great respect, it is precisely because the Parliamentary Secretary did not make this clear that we are now asking him about it. Why can he accept the report of the Italian Government of an inquiry on an aircraft operated by a company in this country?

:As I have already said, my right hon. Friend is satisfied with the findings of the report.

rose—

I would remind the House that this matter was thoroughly discussed on an Adjournment debate. It is unfair to other hon. Members to try to repeat that discussion now.

:In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what representations were made to the Italian authorities investigating the Hermes air crash off Sicily by Her Majesty's Government, either for themselves, or on behalf of the survivors, the crew or the operating company.

:During the investigation a list of representations compiled by a committee representing the surviving passengers was forwarded to the Italian Commission by Her Majesty's Government, but no other representations were made.

:Does not the hon. Gentleman feel that the British Government have some responsibility to the operating company regarding this crash, because they were unable to have a representative at the investigation, and that the Government should press the matter? Secondly, may I ask why the Government did not forward to the Italian commission of inquiry the replies to the questionnaire sent to the survivors, until at a late stage they were, in fact, asked for by the Italians?

:This matter was entirely in the hands of the Italian Government under International Regulations. Her Majesty's Government feel that everything was done correctly and that nothing has been ignored which our Department should have dealt with during the course of the investigation.

:In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation why he has circulated the Italian report on the Hermes air crash off Sicily to certain survivors of the accident.

:It is the normal procedure to circulate copies of unpublished accident reports to those interested parties who ask for them.

:On a point of order. Is it in order for an hon. Member to address a Question to a Minister when he has previously given notice that he intends to raise the subject of the Question on the Adjournment?

:That had occurred to me, but this is a new point, though it should not be followed up by supplementary questions.

:Is the hon. Gentleman aware that 13 survivors of this aircraft tell me that they regard the position as unsatisfactory and that a further 10, including the inspector of Civil Aviation in the Sudan, have asked me to take the matter a step further? Does he realise that the handling of this matter by his Department is totally unsatisfactory in every way?

:Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will pursue that in the debate on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will now state the expected date of publication of the Report of the Thesiger Committee established to inquire into certain aspects of the statutes in relation to road passenger transport matters.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he can now announce the date of publication of the Thesiger Report.

:My right hon. Friend hopes that the Report will be published at the beginning of December.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he has now considered all the implications of the Report upon the Harrow train disaster; and whether he will make a statement as to the measures he proposes to adopt to improve railway safety in every sphere, including standardisation and general application of systems of multi-light colour signalling and automatic train control devices.

:My right hon. Friend has now considered all the implications of the Report upon the Harrow train disaster. As he informed the House on 6th July, the Transport Commission, who are responsible for safety of railway operation, has decided to extend automatic train control. As my hon. Friend is aware, trials with new equipment designed for this purpose are being conducted on the Barnet—Huntingdon line. In addition, multi-aspect colour light signalling is being extended where justified by the traffic. The standards for new signalling works are laid down in the official publication entitled "Requirements for Passenger Lines and recommendations for Goods Lines."

A very good answer.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is considering the dangers arising out of the unrestricted use of motor headlights on roads; and what steps he is taking to avoid the dangers which arise from the misuse of headlights.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the action he proposes to take on the question of the universal system of headlamp dipping on mechanically propelled road vehicles.

:We are acutely aware of the problem of headlamp dazzle. Many suggestions have been made on this subject, but we are not satisfied that any of the methods so far proposed offers a satisfactory solution. A series of international tests, in which our technical advisers are taking part, is to be held in America next year, and my right hon. Friend proposes to await the outcome of these before considering further action in this country. As regards dipping, we do not think it desirable at present to go beyond the provisions of the Highway Code, which advises motorists to dip their headlamps when meeting other vehicles unless there are exceptional circumstances which make it unsafe to do so.

Is the Minister aware that the absence of regulations means that only by observing the courtesy of the road does an individual dip his headlights? Is the Minister aware that because this is not done very serious accidents are caused, particularly on country roads. Is it not true that in France there are regulations which do something to enforce the dipping of lights to prevent this type of accident?

The question of whether it is desirable to make the dipping of headlights compulsory was considered. It was decided not to do so for two reasons. The first was the difficulty of prescribing precisely the occasions and the time when lights were to be dipped and, secondly, the difficulty of enforcing any such law.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that since May, 1952, representations were made to his Department by a trade union catering for a large number of omnibus drivers expressing grave apprehension at the variety of instructions relating to headlight dipping? Is he further aware that in February, 1953, his right hon. Friend informed the trade union concerned that he was considering a report he had received from the Road Research Laboratory? How much longer will the right hon. Gentleman consider the matter before coming to a decision?

The Road Research Laboratory is constantly at work on this subject. We have discovered that a large proportion of the headlamps in use on the roads are not correctly focussed, which undoubtedly greatly increases the danger. This matter is under constant consideration and discussion, and experiments are constantly being undertaken by the Road Research Laboratory on the subject, but, as I mentioned in my reply, no final decision will be come to until after the experiments have taken place in the United States.

:Does my hon. Friend realise that this matter is rather urgent and has been under consideration for a very long time? Is it possible to introduce some such system as there is in France of having yellow headlamps, without prejudice to a later and better solution? Will the Department confer with the Home Office to ensure that the existing lighting Regulations requiring that lamps are properly focussed and that the dipping device is in working order are better enforced?

In the first place, it is important that we should not constantly alter the Regulations. Therefore, it is very much better for us to wait until we are quite convinced that we can improve the present Regulations. Research is taking place upon this matter the whole time as I have said, and we are fully alive to its importance and urgency.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many of the 21,200 prohibition notices issued by officials of the licensing authorities in accordance with the provisions of Section 17 (3) of the Road and Rail Traffic Act, 1933, during the years ended 30th September, 1952, and 1953, respectively, related to British Road Service vehicles.

Of the 21,189 notices issued during the year ended 30th September, 1952, 1,175 related to vehicles operated by the British Transport Commission; separate figures for vehicles employed by British Road Services are not available. Figures for the year ended 30th September, 1953, are not yet complete.

:Would not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that these figures indicate that the British Road Services vehicles have been kept in a comparatively better serviceable condition, inasmuch as the number of notices has not been so large, than those of private operators? Does that not show that the break-up of the organisation and its return to a large number of small units will lead to a deterioration in the condition of the road haulage vehicles on the roads?

No, Sir. The figures actually point to a diametrically opposite conclusion. This prohibition was applied to 1 in 47 of the vehicles in the hands of private owners and to 1 in 46 of those owned by the British Transport Commission.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what information he has demonstrating the protective value of crash helmets to motor-cyclists involved in accidents; and whether there is a supply of these helmets sufficient for all motor-cyclists.

Medical research shows that the wearing of the best type of helmet greatly reduces the likelihood of fracture of the skull in accidents and makes head injuries generally less severe; and sample figures taken before crash helmets were common in civilian use indicated that the incidence of head injuries in motor-cycle accidents was over 50 per cent. among civilian riders but only about 27 per cent. among Army riders wearing crash helmets. I understand from my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade that supplies of crash helmets appear to be keeping pace with the present demand.

:What percentage of motor-cyclists is it estimated wear these crash helmets, and can something be done to secure a large production of these helmets at a reasonable price to encourage their purchase by motor-cyclists?

I am afraid that I have no figures to show how many motorcyclists wear them, but steps have been taken by the President of the Board of Trade to make these helmets readily available; since 13th November they have been on open general licence for importation as there are certain good French and German designs

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware that a large amount of secondhand shipping is being sold to nations that refuse to recognise international regulations and the Convention on Safety of Life at Sea laid down by the International Labour Organisation; that these vessels will be competing with our own Merchant Navy, which conforms to stringent regulations; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this matter.

I am aware that a substantial tonnage of United Kingdom secondhand shipping has been sold to countries that have not yet accepted the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea, 1948, which I take it the hon. Member has in mind. We believe that of these, the countries which have the largest fleets will accept the Convention before long. To prevent the sale of secondhand tonnage to those countries which have not so far accepted the Convention would merely deprive the British shipping industry of much needed funds for replacement, without, in my opinion, expediting their acceptance of the Convention.

Is the Minister aware that since 1939 Panama has jumped from ninth to fourth on the list of maritime nations, having increased her tonnage by 500 per cent., while this country has increased her tonnage by only 15 per cent.? Is he also aware that Panama is refusing to carry out the recommendations of the I.L.O.? Cannot the hon. Gentleman do something to boycott the sale of shipping to Panama until the Regulations are adopted by that country?

The hon. Member asked me in his Question about Conventions on the Safety of Life at Sea. The only such Convention to which Panama has not conformed is that of 1948. This year, by executive decree, the President of Panama required Panamanian ships to put that Convention into operation. As to the Conventions of the International Labour Office, we are not guided in our decisions about giving permission for the sale of ships by the question of whether or not a country applies or has ratified those agreements.

rose—

The hon. Member has had a long supplementary reply.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many vessels were transferred from the British to the Panama flag in 1951 and 1952; what was the tonnage involved; how many were of new construction; and how many secondhand.

In 1951 and 1952 75 ships of 426,000 gross tons were transferred from the United Kingdom and colonial registers to Panama. Five ships of 62,000 gross tons were also completed in British yards for first registry in Panama.

:Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that a large part of the shipping sold to Panama is slum shipping, some of it 30 years old? Is he not aware that a large amount of the shipping owned by Panama companies is under the control of nationals of other countries, who sail under the Panama flag because they can evade the obligations of the I.L.O., and is he doing anything about that?

:In considering whether or not to allow the transfer of tonnage from the British register to other registers, my Department is influenced by considerations of national security and not by considerations relating to I.L.O. Conventions.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that the figure of the tonnage of shipping which he indicated as having been transferred to Panama—426,000 tons—represents only 2 per cent. of the total British Mercantile Marine tonnage and is, therefore, practically nugatory?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what evidence his Department has from local authorities concerned of the cost incurred by them in clearing beaches of oil residues.

I am aware that expenditure has been incurred by local authorities in clearing oil residues from beaches, but I do not know how much.

Will the hon. Gentleman's Department collect such evidence, because all the arrangements now being made to deal with this nuisance are of a long-term nature, whereas the pollution of the beaches is a vital matter here and now, and many local authorities are saddled with very heavy expenditure?

:I should not be willing to ask the local authorities about their expenditure upon this matter. It would only lead them to ask us to make a contribution towards it, and the Ministry of Transport has no funds available for that purpose. As I indicated last week, my right hon. Friend has called an international conference for early next year with a view to putting into effect the recommendations of the Committee on the Prevention of Pollution of the Sea by Oil. If we are able to get agreement upon that, this very serious problem will then be solved.

Can my hon. Friend devise any means whereby his Department might assist local authorities to deal with this very difficult menace?

:We should naturally be willing to consider any suggestions which my hon. Friend cares to put forward, provided that it does not involve State expenditure.

As the Joint Parliamentary Secretary's answer was so unsatisfactory, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when Her Majesty's Government will ratify the agreement regarding the status of forces of parties to the North Atlantic Treaty.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when he anticipates an agreement being reached with the Government of the United States of America, whereby members of the United States armed forces committing offences in Britain will be subject to the criminal and civil law of this country.

Before Her Majesty's Government can ratify the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Status of Forces Agreement, the Visiting Forces Act, 1952, must be brought into force by Orders in Council made under the Act. Her Majesty's Government intend to present these Orders to Parliament at an early date. The provisions of the Visiting Forces Act will then apply. American and certain other N.A.T.O. forces in this country will then be subject to the jurisdiction of British criminal courts except in respect of offences committed on duty or against the persons or property of other members of the American forces or against the property of the American authorities. Members of the United States forces are already subject to the jurisdiction of our civil courts.

:When the Visiting Forces Act comes into operation and this Agreement also comes into operation, am I right in thinking that any offence committed by a member of a visiting force when off duty can be dealt with in a court in this country?

:When the Visiting Forces Act comes into force, any member of any armed forces specified in the Order in Council bringing the Act into force will be subject to British criminal jurisdiction, except in the cases I have mentioned in my original answer.

:Is the Minister aware that where a British court makes an affiliation order against an American soldier it is not enforceable, and will the reply he has given cover that position? It does not appear to.

:I should like notice of that Question. As I understand it, the position is quite clear with regard to criminal jurisdiction, but in regard to a matter of that kind I should like to see a Question on the Order Paper.

If I understand his reply aright, the hon. Gentleman said that the present position covers civil cases. My information is that affiliation court orders by British courts are not enforceable against United States personnel, and that is the point I am raising.

:If I may say so, that is all the more reason why I should like to see a Question on the Order Paper, when the hon. Gentleman may receive a perfectly clear and straightforward answer.

:Is my hon. Friend aware that in the case of committal orders for civil debt many county court judges refuse to enforce them against visiting service personnel on the grounds that it is against the spirit of the Visiting Forces Act. Is that the considered view of the Foreign Office in this matter?

The Act, as I have made plain, is not yet in operation.

Will the hon. Gentleman recall the specific assurance given by his right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary when this Bill was in Committee and on Second Reading, that the Order in Council bringing the Act into operation would not be promulgated until it was clear that reciprocal arrangements were being accepted by the United States Government in their own territories? Are we to take his announcement now as meaning that this assurance has been given?

:As the hon. Gentleman knows, the United States have ratified the Status of Forces Agreement and the Home Secretary made an explanation at some length to the House last night, which was accepted by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede). We awaited the ratification of this Agreement by the United States before bringing this Order before Parliament. We hope to bring it before Parliament shortly.

Will the hon. Gentleman read what his right hon. and learned Friend said yesterday afternoon, because it would appear from that that there is no satisfactory answer yet regarding the question of reciprocity.

:Is the hon. Gentleman aware that authorities responsible to the Government, controlled by the Government, are tendering advice to citizens in this country that although in theory they have redress in a civil court, in practice, the difficulty of carrying out such an order makes it not worth the expense incurred?

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of some of the replies which have been made, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an opportunity to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if Her Majesty's Government recognises the legality of the nationalisation of oil in Persia in the same terms as stated by the preceding Government at the time of the Mission of the right hon. Member for Ipswich to Teheran.

The present Government, as I understand their predecessors also, are prepared to recognise the principle of the nationalisation of oil in Persia within the framework of an arrangement which, on the basis of justice and equity, satisfies the interests of the parties concerned.

:While appreciating that answer, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will make it known in Persia, where there seems to be some doubt about it?

I think that it would go rather well in Persia.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he means that in fact what Her Majesty's Government now recognise—still recognise—is what we know as the March nationalisation law and that they do not yet accept the April nationalisation law, because that has an essential difference in Persia?

I have been very careful in my answer. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, there are considerable legal complications in this matter. As I understand the position, certainly neither this Government nor, from my researches through the documents, the previous Government have recognised the legality of the action hitherto taken by the Mossadeq Government. What we have said, and what I repeat now, is that we recognise the principle of nationalisation of oil subject to certain conditions being fulfilled.

Yes, Iknow, but, for the purpose of clarification, will the Foreign Secretary say that that in effect means the acceptance of the March law in Persia and not the acceptance of the April law, which is a very different one? The whole of the negotiations in 1951 were carried out on the basis of the March nationalisation law.

The matter is slightly more complicated than that. The nationalisation matter is inevitably connected with the question of compensation. Now that I am embarking on these new negotiations with the Persian Government I do not think that it is desirable to raise that in an acute form, but I have to safeguard our national position and that of the company, and that is why I used the words which I have employed.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what answer he has sent to the petition signed by nearly 1,000 Grimsby trawler men's wives and organised by Mrs. Irene White, 72, Daubney Street, Cleethorpes, which asked him to take decisive action to settle the Icelandic fishing limits dispute, since it may make it impossible for British trawlers to make a living in Icelandic waters and cause unemployment and distress in the Grimsby district.

:I replied to Mrs. White on behalf of my right hon. Friend on 23rd November; and will send my hon. Friend a copy of my letter.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is considerable anxiety in the district that this dispute has lasted so long? Is there anything he can do to break the deadlock? Is he aware that the matter is causing considerable anxiety to the traders and to the whole people of Grimsby and district? Is there any hope that the dispute may be settled in the near future?

:As my hon. Friend knows, we have made many propositions to the Icelandic Government for taking this matter to the International Court, for direct talks between Governments and for direct talks between the trawling interests, and we have made proposals through diplomatic channels. All these have either been rejected or frustrated by the Icelandic Government. Should any further ideas occur to the Government we shall, of course, try them out. Meanwhile, we think that the Icelandic Government might make a proposal.

:Will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the Foreign Office are not being held to blackmail by the Trawler Owners' Association?

Nonsense.

Can the hon. Gentleman give some explanation of the fact that on 26th October a fish merchant in Grimsby asked the representative of the Grimsby Trawlers Owners' Association why the Foreign Office was not doing more in this matter and the amazing reply he received was, "Because we will not let them"? Can the hon. Gentleman give any explanation of that position?

The Government are not being held to blackmail by the trawling industry, nor are they responsible for the answers which individual trawler owners or fishermen may give.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what arrangements have been made with the Federal German Government for the payment of the British occupation costs after the end of the present year.

As long as the occupation régimeis in force, the Federal German Government meet the local costs of the British occupying forces in accordance with their requirements. We are at present discussing with the Federal German Government our requirements for the period after the end of the present year.

:As it is now very doubtful whether the European Defence Agreement will be fully ratified, may we have an assurance that next year there will be no reduction in the present contribution of the Germans towards the cost of the British occupation forces?

:As the Chancellor of the Exchequer said on 7th May, 1953, arrangements have been made to ensure that the cost of our troops in Germany will be covered between the date of ratification of the Bonn Convention and the E.D.C. Treaty—which are to be ratified simultaneously as the hon. Gentleman knows—and 30th June, 1954. Thereafter, of course, German defence contributions will be assessed in the same way as that adopted in N.A.T.O. But if the occupation régime should still be in force on 30th June, 1954, then, of course, the existing arrangement will still apply.

asked the Secretary of State for Foregin Affairs whether he will publish the report he has received from Her Majesty's Ambassador in Washington on the extent of American trade with Communist China.

:The extent of American imports from China in 1952 and the first quarter of 1953 is set out in a memorandum issued by the United States Department of Commerce, a copy of which I am sending to the hon. Member. I am informed that during this period there have been no American exports to China.

:As the Americans bought 28 million dollars' worth of goods from China in 1952, which represents nearly 10 times as many goods as we bought from China, and as dollars are the most valuable war potential now in existence, should not the British Information Services in Washington be instructed to inform the American public that, far from Britain being the only country to trade with China, America has been of far more assistance to Communist China than we have?

So far as I am aware there has been no attempt by the American Government to conceal this fact. [Hon. Members: "Oh."] I said by the American Government. This is a statement issued by the United States Department of Commerce which, so far as I am aware, is available to the whole of the nation, just as I am making it available to the hon. Member.

:Will my hon. Friend arrange to put in the Library a copy of Mr. Harold Stassen's last report to Congress which contained all the relevant information about this matter, including all the figures sought by the hon. Member for Aston (Mr. Wyatt), and also a full record of the trade of Britain with China?

I will certainly do that.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been drawn to the discrepancy between the terms of the 16-nation declaration on Korea, and the provisions of the United Nations Charter for dealing with threats to, or breaches of, the peace; and whether he will take steps to have the 16-nation declaration suitably amended.

No, Sir. The joint policy declaration is in no way inconsistent with the United Nations Charter. The second part of the hon. Member's Question does not therefore arise.

May we take it from that reply that in the event of any incidents occurring in Korea likely to lead to a breach of the peace, whether it comes from the Communists or from Syngman Rhee, the first act of the Government would be to refer the matter to the Security Council of the United Nations for investigation and action?

:The hon. Gentleman can take it from that reply that the Security Council resolution of 27th June, 1950, is still in force and that all that the 16 nations have done in their declaration is to announce that if the aggression were to be renewed their own resistance to aggression would be renewed also. In the event of a breach of the armistice from the South Korean side the Government are in no way committed to any action.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what instructions were given to the British representative attending the recent United Nations Committee to consider the size of the Budget for the United Nations Technical Assistance Programme for 1954; whether the size of the Budget has now been determined; and what will be the British contribution.

The programme for 1954 must depend on the funds available. It will be worked out by the Technical Assistance Board, on which Governments are not represented. The pledges made by contributing Governments amount so far to $23·7 million. The size of the programme for 1954 has not yet been announced, and will depend on whether pledges are made by other countries. As regards the contribution of Her Majesty's Government, I would refer the hon. Baronet to the reply given to the hon. Member for Blackburn, East (Mrs. Castle) on 11th November.

:The hon. Gentleman has not answered the first part of my Question. Is he aware that the Press release of the conference shows that the British representative there did not make any suggestion that the countries of the world should increase the size of the programme, and, indeed, denied that any financial difficulties were involved? Was that done on the instruction of the Government, or was it on the British representative's own responsibility?

It is not for Her Majesty's Government to lecture other Governments in this matter. It is for Her Majesty's Government to set an example, and we set an example by increasing our contribution by 20 per cent.

:Owing to the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a further statement on the Suez Canal negotiations with the Egyptian Government.

:I have nothing at present to add to what I said on this subject in the course of the debate on the Address, except to say that, as the House will already be aware, Sir Ralph Stevenson, Her Majesty's Ambassador in Cairo, will shortly be returning to Cairo. General Sir Brian Robertson has now returned to this country to take up his duties as Chairman of the Transport Commission. I should like to take this opportunity of expressing the gratitude of Her Majesty's Government to General Robertson and of paying him a personal tribute for the part he has played in these negotiations.

:Is it not the case that these negotiations are now being held up on two very narrow points, first, what clothes the technicians who are to remain behind in the Canal Zone shall wear, and, second, what conditions would precede availability of the base to us again in the event of war? Are we not missing a great opportunity to sign the agreement with the Egyptians while General Neguib can still hold the nationalist element under control, merely because the Foreign Secretary has become afraid of 25 Tory back benchers?

The hon. Gentleman can, of course, use his imagination as to the reasons for the attitude of Her Majesty's Government. However, the issues upon which we are at present divided will, I trust, be resolved. I cannot for a moment admit that one of them in particular is other than of major importance.

rose—

On a point of order. This is an extremely important subject, Mr. Speaker. Might not one supplementary question be allowed from this side of the House?

I am afraid not now. These are all very important subjects.

I am glad to say that there were no injuries to British persons either in Trieste or Rome during the recent incidents. As regards damage to property, in Rome windows were broken at the Consular Section of Her Majesty's Embassy, and at the offices of British European Airways and of the British Council. The total amount of the damage is estimated at £100. At Trieste windows were broken in three hotels, one service club and one forces cinema, all under military requisition. Fourteen military vehicles were damaged, one of which is a complete wreck. The total damage is estimated at £536.

:Can my hon. Friend say whether any claim for damages has been lodged by Her Majesty's Ambassador against the Italian Government?

:With regard to damage in Rome, we have reserved the right to claim compensation for damage to British property, which, as I said, amounts to about £100. Since Trieste is under Allied Military Government, the question cannot arise there.

Is it not the case that the riots were organised by neo-Facist agents, and was not the major damage that done to Italian interests and reputation?

:My right hon. Friend dealt with that matter in his statement on 9th November. I have nothing to add to what he said.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in view of the top secret information that has been revealed in a United States magazine which in this country is forbidden under the Official Secrets Act, details of which have been supplied to him by the hon. Member for Dartford, what approach has been made to the United States of America suggesting the setting up of machinery designed to obviate the divulging of highly confidential information.

:Arrangements exist for safeguarding confidential information exchanged between Her Majesty's Government and the United States Government. In the case which the hon. Gentleman has in mind the article was written by a private individual on the basis of information which has already been released in this country. Such a case does not therefore seem to call for additional security arrangements between the two Governments.

How can the hon. Gentleman reconcile what he now says with the answer I got from the Minister of Supply on Monday, which stated:

"Some of the information in the magazine in question is of a kind which would not have been published in the British Press."—[Official Report, 23rd November, 1953; Vol. 521, c. 5.]

That was a reply to a Question about the Official Secrets Act. In view of the fact that this man, who goes under the the pen-name of Peter Scott, was Assistant chief designer at A. V. Roe, The Gloucester Aircraft Co. and De Havillands and has some of our most guarded secrets, is not something going to be done about it, particularly when America has witch-hunters to prevent secrets going to friend and foe alike?

:The hon. Gentleman suggests that additional security machinery should be set up. Arrangements already exist for safeguarding information exchanged between the two Governments. I do not see how this case could be covered by any additional machinery.

Mrs. White.

On a point of order. I should like your guidance, Mr. Speaker. The hon. Gentleman mentioned that the information which I queried has appeared in this country, whereas his right hon. Friend said that some of this information has not been disclosed and would not be disclosed in this country.

:That is not a point of order for me. The answer may be unsatisfactory to the hon. Gentleman and he must take some steps to raise it again if he thinks fit. I am afraid I cannot allow too much time to be taken on one Question. Weare proceeding very slowly. If the hon. Gentleman will look at the clock he will see how long it has taken us to reach Question No. 40.

:In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Further to that point of order. Is it not clear that the machinery for raising matters on the Adjournment is falling into hopeless confusion? Would it not be desirable for this matter to be reviewed again by you, Mr. Speaker, in view of the changed circumstances of the present time?

:That is a very large question. I have been thinking about it, and I shall be very grateful for suggestions from hon. Members.

:Is the fault not a matter of raising subjects on the Adjournment but of hon. Members on both sides of the House being far too long-winded in their supplementary questions?

I have frequently, in my own way, tried to suggest what the right hon. Gentleman has just said. There seems to be a misconception among some hon. Members that one can debate Questions. Questions are for extracting information. A Question should be left to the hon. Member who asks it; it is his hare and he should be allowed to hunt it.

You say, Mr. Speaker, that one of the purposes of a Question is to extract information. What is the position if the information cannot be extracted?

The hon. Member must try again.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he has yet received the proposals for the closer association of the United Kingdom with the European Coal and Steel Authority prepared by the committee under the chairmanship of M. Monnet.

No, Sir.

Can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that we shall not enter into further commitments relating to the very important industries of coal and steel without having a full discussion in the House?

I cannot give such an assurance, but, of course, we have not yet received M. Monnet's proposals and we should like to study them first.

:Has this matter been held up by Her Majesty's Government, or are other Powers responsible for the delay?

So far as I know, there has been no delay. M. Monnet has told us that he will shortly be sending us some proposals. We hope to get them fairly soon.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reply he proposes to make to the Soviet Government's request for a clarification of the attitude of Her Majesty's Government towards the taking of steps to ratify the European Defence Community agreements during the time when a Four-Power Conference on Germany is under consideration.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the Note presented to the Soviet Government on 16th November, the text of which was laid before this House on 17th November, in Command 9008.

:Surely the right hon. Gentleman is aware that this point, probably the key point in the Soviet Note, is evaded in the reply? Will the right hon. Gentleman adopt the very sensible view put forward by the Opposition that any further steps towards German re-armament should be held in suspense until and after a conference with Russia has been got under way?

I did not know that it was the view of Her Majesty's Opposition that we had in our reply in any way evaded the issue. On the contrary, our reply is absolutely plain and has been made public, though not in Russia so far. I made plain in that statement and in the House that we, for our part, are prepared to discuss Germany and Austria with the Soviet Government at any time at any place and without any prior conditions at all. If Russia will do the same, she can meet us tomorrow.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what consultations he has had with the United States Government regarding the participation of Spain in Western Defence plans.

The United States Government kept us continuously informed regarding their negotiations for the recent United States Spanish bases agreement.

:In any further discussions with the United States Government on this matter, will the right hon. Gentleman represent to the United States the view widely held in this country that any participation of Franco's Government in Western Defence, either through the front door of N.A.T.O. or through the back door, is regarded with abhorrence and makes a mockery of the view of N.A.T.O. that we are fighting for a democratic cause?

Her Majesty's Government saw no reason for objecting to the conclusion of this arrangement, and, on the contrary, I should have thought that the House would have felt that the existence of other bases besides those in this country would not be entirely disadvantageous to this country.

To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on the agreement with the French Government whereby Britain will move into closer association with the European Defence Community than previously announced by Her Majesty's Government.

On a point of order. May we have a reply to Question No. 52, please? I ask this question because I think it raises an important constitutional point. M. Bidault, the French Foreign Minister, made a long statement in the French Parliament last week describing

In answer to the hon. Member's point of order, so far as it is a point of order, as far as I am aware, I have received no request that Question No. 52 should be answered, and the time for Questions is now over. I am sorry to have to rule that, but, to some extent, these things are not in my control.

Further to that point of order. What is our position when announcements are made about the British Government's policy in the French Parliament which are not made in this House and to which we have no reply?

The hon. Member must use what Parliamentary opportunities he can get.

:Further to that point of order. May I have an answer to my Question No. 82?

To ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will make a statement about Cadet Entry to the Royal Navy.

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, I should like to answer Question No. 95.

The House will recall that the Report on Cadet Entry into the Royal Navy which was published as a Command Paper and debated on 6th July dealt especially with the age at which boys should enter as cadets. I have considered it with great care in the light of advice I have received from the naval authorities concerned and from representatives of educational opinion.

The overriding need is to establish a system of cadet entry into the Royal Navy which not only gives the Navy adequate numbers of cadets of the required standard but also conforms beyond dispute with the general trend of educational policy and is entirely outside the field of controversy. I have accordingly decided that all cadets of the permanent entry should join the Royal Navy in one age group at about 18. The first open written examination under this scheme will be held in October, 1954, for entry in May, 1955. The last open written examination for entry at 16 will be in June, 1954, for entry in January, 1955.

An immediate review is being undertaken of officer training as a whole to meet the new conditions and the scientific and technical advances of our day. Whatever conclusions may emerge from this review, I have no personal doubts that the Britannia Royal Naval College, Dartmouth, will have an important place in naval training as it has had since its inception 50 years ago.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware that this plan will be judged by one thing—whether it does, in fact, produce the requisite number of first rate officers for the Navy, and that everybody will hope that his announcement will put a stop to this unhappy period when this very important question has become mingled with party politics? Could he tell the House what arrangements he is making for the present admirable staff at the Royal Naval College?

I can assure my hon. Friend that this decision will give the Royal Navy the adequate supply of first class candidates which it needs. This has obviously been my prime consideration throughout, but if, at the same time, it raises the matter above political controversy, it would be of inestimable benefit to the Royal Navy, and I believe to the country as a whole. In reply to my hon. Friend's question about the staff at Dartmouth, I should like to place on record how grateful we feel to all the staff, and above all the civilian masters, many of whom have devoted most of their lives to the education of naval cadets. I am not, of course, able to speak about their prospects of further employment after the Royal Naval College has ceased to be a college for naval cadets of school age, but I can assure the House that this question is one which will receive the most careful and sympathetic attention.

:May I ask the First Lord if he agrees with his hon. Friend that this has been a question of party politics—[Hon. Members: "Yes."]—or whether it has not been a question of finding the best solution for the Royal Navy? May I further ask him if he would take note that, in our view, he is approaching a solution if he feels it necessary to abolish the 16-year-old entry, which will remove this question from the sphere of political controversy—which is a quite different matter from party politics—and will lay a foundation for long-term permanent recruitment to the Royal Navy? Finally, may I ask him whether, in view of the scheme announced by the R.A.F. last week for giving free entry scholarships to young men between 16 and 18 to enter the R.A.F. at the age of 18, he has in mind giving the same sort of opportunities to young men who desire to enter the Royal Navy?

I said in my original answer that I think this Question has been one of controversy—not party political controversy—but controversy in all quarters, both in the political and educational worlds, and I hope and believe that this decision will raise it above that controversy. I quite realise that there will be certain boys who will wish to join the Navy at 16 and who now have to wait until 18. It may be difficult for their parents to keep them at school during that period, and I have that very much in mind. Amongst other proposals, I shall consider in due course what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Air has done as far as air cadets are concerned.

:In welcoming the statement by my right hon. Friend, which appears to hold out a prospect of a permanent solution as far as the best age of entry is concerned, may I ask him if he can consider the question of a system of scholarships similar to that announced by the Royal Air Force?

:I have just said that that is definitely one of the proposals which I shall take into consideration when I come to look at the question of boys of 16 whose parents are not able to keep them at school until they are 18.

:While I am very glad that the First Lord has resisted the pressure to re-introduce the 13-year-old entry, may I ask him whether this is going to interfere with the age at which cadets are able to become midshipmen, and with their further progress as far as the Royal Navy is concerned?