asked the Minister of Fuel and Power (1) whether, in view of the surplus of coke, he will grant a six months' allocation of coke for export to coke exporting regions to be distributed among the coke producing trade, so that we can regain some of the traditional coke markets which we have lost in recent years;

I share my hon. Friend's desire to make coke freely available for export and at home but, as at present advised, I do not feel able to go further than the increase of the winter coke ration that I announced recently.

Is not my right hon. Friend aware that the present coke export system, which is almost the same as the wartime system, is too rigid to deal with the variations in this trade; and does he not consider that the time has now come for him to hold an inquiry with his own Department, the Board of Trade which is very much concerned with this question, and the industry, to see whether any alterations can be made in the method? Secondly, could my right hon. Friend say what have been the results of the announœment which he made about the increase of 10 cwt of coke for home consumption? Has that been taken up? Also, could I ask—

Order. The hon. Member is asking much too long a supplementary question.

As my hon. Friend knows, there is an international arrangement on coke exports to which Her Majesty's Government are a party, but I will consider the question in consultation with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade. I do not yet know to what extent the increased ration has been taken up.

Will the Minister hesitate to accept the advice tendered in the Question? Is it not a fact that some authorities, particularly the railways, are concerned about supplies, especially in the early part of next year?

As I think the House knows, coke is always temperamental from the stock point of view, but I understand that the iron and steel industry has been taking rather less coke recently.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he is now in a position to make a statement on the pit trial which has taken place with stench agents as warning of fire in British mines.

Yes, Sir. The idea appears essentially sound, but the method proposed is distinctly novel. The idea is that overheating machinery would melt a capsule and thus release a powerful smell which would be wafted forward on the air and warn the miners of the danger. The scientists have already devised two exceedingly foul smelling chemicals; one smells overwhelmingly of garlic, the other of garlic and of skunk as well. These have both been successfully smelt by the experimenters a mile away. I am to have a detailed report in about three months, and I will send the hon. Member a copy.

Would the Minister be good enough to inquire about the experiment which has taken place in Ontario, in view of the great necessity for observing as many precautions as possible? Will he try to deal with the question in less than three months?

As I have said, although the methods are distinctly novel the idea of the research is very serious. As everybody knows, overheated machinery will make a slight smell—for instance, of oil—but the desire is to increase the potency of the smell and to enable it to be wafted along by the ventilation system. The unfortunate thing is that pleasant smells are apparently not so strong as unpleasant smells.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what progress has been made in the use of conveyor belts in coal mines that will not give rise to explosions through the generation of excessive heat.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the policy of his Department in relation to implementing the recommendation of the Chief Inspector of Mines in his Report on the Cresswell Colliery disaster to the effect that only conveyor belts proved in practice which are non-inflammable and highly resistant to fire should be used.

I wish to secure the full implementation of the Creswell Report recommendation as quickly as possible. The National Coal Board has successfully tested several types of fire resistant belting and further types are still under test. Production of some of these types has begun and is gathering momentum. This is enabling the Board to issue a steadily increasing proportion of non-inflammable belting for use in the mines.

Will the Minister kindly offer to the Coal Board the congratulations of the House for the very good work it is doing in this matter?

I have been in recent communication with the Board on this matter, which is a very important one, as the House will realise. The Board has now told me that, subject to the question of the satisfactory nature of the belting, it is prepared to take the full output of the various companies making these conveyor belts and issue them as quickly as possible.

In adding my thanks to those expressed by my hon. Friend, may I ask the Minister whether he will widen the consultation so that in the rubber industry the requisite type of conveyor belting—and that alone—will be manufactured?

I would hope so, but that is primarily a matter for the Board.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power the price of a ton of domestic coal at Durham City, York, Manchester, Cardiff and Southampton, respectively.

I will, with permission, circulate the figures in the Official Report.

Do not the figures show that the price of coal is much higher in the South of England than in the Midlands and the North, and does not that mean that the old age pension is worth less in the South than it is in the Midlands and the North during the winter? What practical objection is there to allowing old age pensioners in the South to have coal at a lower price?

Although I am not in favour of maintaining something simply because it has existed a long time, this basis, of course, has existed since the beginning of the working of coal in this country. In addition, a great part of heavy industry has been located on this basis.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power his estimate of the annual cost of carrying out in full the recommendations of the Turner Committee on Mining Subsidence.

It would be too speculative and I am not prepared to make it.

Will the Minister say whether he is in favour of these recommendations? As nothing has been done about the Turner Report since the 1950 Act, can he say when he will next bring forward an instalment of legislation to carry out the recommendations of this Report, which everybody accepted when it was published?

That point arises on the next Question.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will name the 11 organisations which have made representations to him on the inadequacy of the present provisions for compensation for damage caused by mining subsidence; and what answer he has given to them.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power which local authority associations have made representations to him on the inadequacy of present provisions for compensation for damage caused by mining subsidence; on what dates; what proposals they brought forward; and what was the nature of his reply.

Apart from letters about specific cases, a number of organisations have submitted representations in general terms that the recommendations of the Turner Committee should be implemented, and I will circulate a list of these in the Official Report. I replied that the Government cannot at present undertake to introduce legislation on this subject.

Is the Minister aware that the situation in some areas, as, for example, Stoke-on-Trent, is really deplorable? Does he think it fair to deny to cities like Bournemouth, South-port and Blackpool the privilege of paying something towards the damage which occurs in such areas as mine?

It is hardly three years since Parliament dealt with this matter.

Is not the Minister aware that Parliament dealt only with dwellinghouses up to a rateable value of £32, and that no legislation has been brought forward affecting the position of local authorities? Is he not further aware that local authorities in mining areas are suffering grievously from the fact that they have to carry the whole burden of the damage to their services? Will he not, therefore, pay attention to what the Turner Committee said on this subject, and appreciate that something should be done to assist local authorities?

I appreciate that this is a difficult position, but it was equally difficult when the 1950 Act was brought in.

Is the Minister aware that there is growing disquiet in many mining areas because of the parsimonious policy now being pursued by regional boards? Is he further aware that when an amount in respect of the damage done by mining subsidence has been agreed, the Coal Board officers are asking the owners and the trustees to sign a certificate indemnifying the Coal Board against any further damage done by mining subsidence? I have a copy of the letter which has been sent out. Is that not trying to contract out of the Act of 1950?

Nobody would try to contract out of an Act of Parliament. Has the hon. Member taken the matter up with the Coal Board?

Yes, but I am a little tired of these men because of their very stupid attitude.

I beg to give notice that in view of the unsatisfactory answer I shall raise the matter at the earliest opportunity on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he is aware that it is almost impossible to distinguish between various groupings of domestic house coal under the present method of grading and pricing; and if he will consider a revision of this system.

This is a difficult problem and I should be ready to consider any practical suggestions which the hon. Member has in mind for dealing with it.

Does the Minister realise that there is a considerable amount of dissatisfaction among coal purchasers because they feel that some of the higher groupings are very much less in value than the lower ones? There is a difference of as much as 2s. 6d. between group 1 and group 8. Will he do something about it?

I have examined this matter carefully, because it is quite a serious point, but I have reached the conclusion that the only real and effective remedy would be to give back to consumers the key of freedom to choose their own merchants.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power how much nutty slack has been sold to the public.

About 490,000 tons.

This is a very small part of the total fuel consumption. Having already urged domestic consumers to use less nutty slack and more smokeless fuel, when will the Minister stop foisting this wretched smoke-producing stuff on the public?

The first consideration we have to bear in mind with regard to coal supplies at present is that of keeping the country warm in the extremities of the winter. I have pointed out that there are plentiful supplies of coke, which is the best smokeless fuel now available for householders.

Can my right hon. Friend say what the house coal stocks are at the moment?

Yes, Sir. Generally speaking, there are good stocks of coal and coke for the domestic consumer. The House will remember that the Government took special measures with regard to the house coal position during the height of the summer, but that was based upon ordinary winter weather. The wonderful weather we have been having is not only agreeable individually, but is a piece of national good fortune, because it enables us to keep up the rate of exports and maintain a good house coal position. But it conceals a hidden danger in that people are being lulled by the warm weather, and coal merchants tell me that they are not ordering in the usual way. The weather may well take revenge on us for its warmth by giving us a specially cold period later and I would urge people to take advantage of this warm spell to stock up for Christmas and the coming months.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what experiments his Department has conducted to ascertain the proportion of non-combustible materials in the various types of coal now being produced; and how these proportions compare with those prevalent in 1938.

This analysis is a matter for the National Coal Board, and I have arranged for my hon. Friend to be given information on current figures. I am told, however, that figures for 1938 are not available.

Is my right hon. Friend not apprehensive lest the Coal Board and/or its agents may be liable under the Merchandise Marks Act, 1953, for selling goods not fit for their purpose?

That, I think, is very much a matter of day to day administration.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if he will arrange for retirement pensioners to pay only for the gas and electricity which they use which, in most cases, is lower than the minimum amount for which charge is made.

This position arises only in the case of one gas board, which informs me that it has made special arrangements for dealing with any cases of hardship.

Is that the North-East Gas Board?

Yes, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that pensioners seem to be unaware that their special cases can be considered? Will he give publicity to this fact?

Yes, Sir. I hope that this Question and answer will have the effect that the hon. Lady desires.

On the subject of old age pensioners, is the Minister aware that I have been told of a case in which inspectors from one board visited a house and, as a result, declared that certain equipment was out of date and put in new equipment which cost £4, which is quite beyond the means of the pensioners to pay? Would not the whole question of charges to old age pensioners be an effective one for him to consider?

I should like to look further into the point which the hon. Member has raised.

As it appears to be possible to make some arrangements with old age pensioners in relation to gas, will my right hon. Friend consider the question of old age pensioners paying more for coal because they buy it by the sack? If it is possible to make special arrangements for one kind of heating product, why is it not possible to make similar arrangements for another?

That question is on a rather different basis, but I will consider it.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power if, in view of the fall in the price of copper and rubber, he will give directions to the British Electricity Authority for a further extension of rural electrification.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for drawing my attention to this matter. Following the debate in this House the electricity boards, I am glad to say, are making good progress in rural electrification and they are being helped by the fall in the prices of these materials.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, as a result of the fall in the price of rubber and copper, a number of small villages and hamlets in rural areas, who have been struggling for years to get electricity, will shortly be in a position to be supplied?

I think that also followed from the debate this year.

If there is such an extension, will the Minister see that the cost does not fall too heavily upon rural authorities?

I do not think that that question will arise in this case.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will give an assurance that no decision will be finally come to with the German Federal Government over the future of the captured German documents without a statement on the outcome of the discussions at present proceeding.

I regret I can give no such general assurance, but I can state that the usual procedure will be followed. My hon. Friend will appreciate that there are many kinds of captured German documents, and it may well prove desirable to deal with them in different ways, but I cannot now anticipate the decisions which will eventually be reached.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the captured German documents to which I am referring have been the subject of negotiation for two years, and if it takes as long as that to come to a decision does that not indicate something rather peculiar about the negotiations?

There are an enormous number of captured documents of many different sorts and the greatest expedition is being used in sorting them out.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on allied decartelisation legislation now that Federal Germany is a full member of the Schuman Plan Coal and Steel Community.

The decartelisation legislation which was enacted in 1947 in the three Western Zones of Germany by the respective military Governors is still in force. The elimination of excessive concentrations of economic power in the coal, iron and steel industries was carried out under an allied law, which is also still in force. No changes in this decartelisation and deconcentration legislation have been made in consequence of the Federal Republic's membership of the European Coal and Steel Community.

Would it be my hon. Friend's view that German industrialists, through one of their important industrial papers, are flying a kite to see how the allies would react to a re-formation of big groups?

I think that many kites are being flown on all occasions. I see no reason to think that there will be any change in the attitude of this Government or any other towards these problems.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will instruct the representative of Her Majesty's Government at the United Nations General Assembly to support the resolution asking that all member States should express their views on the question of Charter revision.

The resolution to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman refers was amended before its adoption by the Legal Committee and now no longer calls upon member States to express their views. The question of instructing Her Majesty's Government's representative does not, therefore, arise at the present juncture.

Would the Foreign Secretary tell the House why the British representative on the Sixth Committee, on 3rd November, voted against the resolution proposed by the Netherlands and New Zealand asking that by 31stMarch, 1955, all member States should indicate their preliminary views on Charter revision? Why should the British representative have voted against that resolution?

Because we thought that in present circumstances it was not, perhaps, the best possible moment to try to table our views about the revision of the Charter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that no one was asking us to table our views? What had been asked was that we should indicate what views would be tabled before a date in 1955. Is this not a matter on which we should be encouraging the greatest discussion and thought among Government members and the general public?

Yes, I am all in favour of thought, but the question was whether it was wise to table our thought at the present time or in the immediate future, and I am inclined to think that it was more wise not to.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend right or wrong in thinking that the date was in March, 1955?

I do not think that that would unduly modify my view. The point was whether we should now make public our views about revision. My own view is that we should do a great deal of thinking about the Charter, but that we should not be wise to publish our views.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the British delegate to the United Nations Technical Assistance Pledging Conference is authorised to give undertakings for more than 12 months ahead.

I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply which my hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Lichfield and Tamworth (Mr. Snow) on 26th October.

Would the hon. Gentleman take into consideration the fact that this work of technical assistance is really vital to British interests? All the British Commonwealth benefits a great deal, but the work cannot be developed unless pledges are made for more than one year; and that for next year ought to be greatly increased.

I am quite sure that the Government will continue to give every assistance, but they cannot commit themselves financially for more than 12 months ahead.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if the United Nations have had any further report in respect of the relationship between Israel and Jordan; and what proposals have been made to the United Nations to minimise friction and conflict between these two and other Powers involved.

The Security Council received first-hand reports from the United Nations Chief of Staff in its recent discussion of the Qibya incident and the general question of compliance with the armistice agreements between Israel and her neighbours. This discussion resulted in the adoption of a resolution on 24th November which condemned the Israeli action at Qibya and called upon the Government of Jordan to strengthen its measures to prevent infiltration.

The resolution also called on both parties to abide by their obligationsunder the armistice agreements, and provided for the strengthening of the Truce Supervision Organisation and for a further review of the situation by the Security Council in three months' time.

In addition, the Israel Government have requested the Secretary-General of the United Nations to convoke a conference between Israel and Jordan to review the armistice agreement between them.

When will that take place? Is it anticipated that something more than this will be done to make both parties and others realise the gravity of the situation which they are helping to create?

I could not say when the Israeli Government's request to the Secretary-General will become operative. It is, I think, obligatory on both parties. As for the general situation, my own view, if I may state it frankly to the House, is that it will be better to allow a little time to elapse before we attempt to try to bring the parties together on more reasonable conditions. I think we have to allow the feelings created by the Qibya incident to subside to some extent before we attempt successful negotiations.

May I ask the Foreign Secretary whether Her Majesty's Government, directly or through the United Nations, are doing something with a view to moving beyond the armistice stage, to a state of peace between Israel and her neighbours? Is it not a fact that the long continuance of this so-called armistice is one of the complications in this situation on both sides?

I agree entirely with the right hon. Gentleman. That is what I had in mind when I said that after the Qibya incident it was wiser to allow a little time to elapse before any fresh negotiations were attempted; but I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the only final solution lies in a peace settlement, and we should like to do all in our power to promote it.

In the matter of the proposals by the Israeli Government to sit in conference with the Jordan Government with a view to arriving at a solution—a partial solution—of this very vexed problem, could the United Kingdom Government use their undoubted influence with the Jordan Government—I do not say at present, in view of what the Foreign Secretary said, but at some suitable stage—to effect an agreement?

Yes, Sir. I think it is important. All that the Israeli Government have asked for is a meeting with the Jordan Government in respect of the armistice agreement. What the right hon. Member for Lewisham, South (Mr. H. Morrison) asked me was about a wider aspect of trying to reach a peace settlement, and I think the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) is on the same point. It is the second rather than the first which is of lasting importance for that part of the world.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it would have been better to expedite the meeting asked for by the Israeli Government under Article 12 of the armistice agreement, so as to avoid any difficulties which may arise in the meantime, and does he not think that our Government should exercise their influence in that direction?

I think that the meeting called for is obligatory on the two parties, but I must say to the hon. Gentleman and to the House that we have to understand how much the scar of the Qibya event still exists. We have to allow time for that scar to heal over before we can usefully, I believe, produce any important result.

asked the Minister of Food the estimated subsidies, given separately, for each subsidised foodstuff for the purposes of the original Estimates and the Supplementary Estimate, respectively.

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Food how much carcase meat he expects to receive from New Zealand this year.

About 300,000 tons.

Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman give the reason for the shortfall of 60,000 tons in the original estimate of what was expected to be received from New Zealand?

I think that that fact can be entirely attributed to a very bad season.

asked the Minister of Food why, under Sub-head H of the original Estimate, he showed for eggs and egg products a credit of £1,500,000, whereas in his revised Estimate he now shows an expenditure of £3,600,000.

The level of retail prices of shell eggs has at times been lower than had been expected when the original Estimate was prepared, thus increasing the cost of implementing the Agriculture Act and reducing the proceeds of sale of imported eggs. Frozen eggs have also cost more and realised less.

Does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman realise that his reply means that his Department has got into a muddle about eggs and that the sooner he works out what he is going to do the better for everyone?

We may have got into a muddle, but not into the same muddle as hon. Gentlemen opposite when they predicted the 10d. egg.

How much of this difference of £1 million is represented by stocks of old eggs held by the Ministry to be unloaded on to the public at some future indefinite time?

None, Sir.

In view of the fact that the Minister apparently is misinformed about what I may have said, I give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance the estimated annual cost of granting such increases to old age pensioners as would increase the basic rate of all retirement pensions to a weekly sum of £2 10s. in the case of an individual and to £5 in the case of a married couple; what would be the consequential savings in National Assistance payments; and what increase would be needed in the weekly contribution of each contributor to National Insurance.

It is estimated that the additional cost would be about £220 million a year now, rising to reach £400 million in 25 years' time. The additional weekly contribution required from insured persons on the present actuarial basis would be about 2s. 6d. for men and 2s. 8d. for women, but in the case of employed persons one-half of this additional contribution would be payable by the employer. The extra contributions would produce about £130 million a year, leaving the Exchequer to find the balance of the extra cost.

The consequential saving on National Assistance might, in present circumstances, be of the order of £30 million a year.

As these figures constitute the target of the national organisation of the old age pension movement, will my right hon. Friend say whether he has discussed these figures with them and, if so, with what result?

I think that the organisation has been informed of the consequence of its proposals.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance the proportionate increase in retirement pensions involved, respectively, for those securing the increase from the National Insurance Act, 1951; and those securing the corresponding increase under the Family Allowance and National Insurance Act, 1952.

The extra amounts given in 1951 to pensioners dealt with under the Act passed in that year represented increases of 15½ per cent. for single persons and 19 per cent. for married couples. The corresponding additions given under the 1952 Act to the remaining pensioners represented increases of 25 per cent. and 28½ per cent., respectively.

How can the Minister explain those figures when the first increase was one of 4s. and the second one of 2s.6d.?

The first increase, it is true, was one of 4s., but the second increase was one of 6s. 6d.

My right hon. Friend asked the increase in respect of pensioners who had already received an increase in 1951. Will the Minister confirm that in that case the increase was only 2s. 6d. as compared with 4s.?

Certainly, but the Question on the Order Paper deals with those securing the corresponding, and not the subsequent, increase.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance the in crease in the cost of living since the National Insurance Act was passed in 1946, taking the Ministry of Labour cost- of-living indexes from June, 1947.

On the basis of the Interim Index of Retail Prices and the earlier cost-of-living index which it superseded in June, 1947, the answer would be about 40 per cent.

Is the Minister aware that the income and expenditure figures quoted in the blue book, taken in conjunction with output, show a rise in 1946–47 of about 7·2 per cent. and that the London and Cambridge indices, which carry on from 1938 onwards, indicate a rise of 6½ per cent from 1946 to 1947, which indicates that there was a fairly substantial rise in price in 1946 and 1947? If the Minister—[Hon. Members: "Speech."]—allows for that in the Ministry of Labour index, he will find from all the figures relating to the subject that the rise in prices was 50 per cent.

Both the original Question and the answer which I gave dealt with the Ministry of Labour interim index. That was devised by the Socialist Government, and it is on the basis of that index that I have made the calculation.