asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what notice he has given to the British Broadcasting Corporation, under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement, regarding broadcasts by Communists.

None, Sir.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the question of censorship is important, and will he give an assurance that there will be no repetition of the case in which there was, in fact, political censorship and discrimination, namely, when the broadcast by a Communist boy scout was cancelled owing to the abuse by the hon. Member for Dorset, North (Mr. Crouch) of his political position?

I cannot give any guarantee for the future. The hon. Gentleman asked what happened in the past. I assure him that no directions have been given to the B.B.C. at any time about Communists.

I do not feel that I abused my position.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what progress is being made on the Isle of Wight television station; and if he can now name the date when it will be completed.

It is too early to add to my reply to the hon. Member on 28th October, 1953, when I said that the B.B.C. expect to have a temporary low-power station working by the end of 1954. I understand from the Corporation that work is going ahead satisfactorily.

Is the Minister aware that reception of television programmes in south Hampshire is particularly bad? Will he do everything he can to speed up the provision of the station in the Isle of Wight?

Yes, Sir. I do not expect reception on the south coast to be good until the Isle of Wight station is in operation.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether, in view of the wide national disagreement that has been expressed by varying political, educational and religious opinion on the question of sponsored television, he will recommend the appointment of a Royal Commission to inquire into all matters relative to this subject, and hold in abeyance the Government's proposals on sponsored television until that commission has reported

No, Sir.

I anticipated that reply. Can the Assistant Postmaster-General give us any logical reason why, when there is such a wide divergence of opinion among many great and honourable people and organisations, and even among the Tories, there should not be a complete, impartial and independent examination, such as is suggested in the Question, so that we may know exactly what is the truth?

I suggest that the House of Commons is the proper place to discuss these matters. The Government had a healthy majority in the debates on the two White Papers, when the House had a full opportunity of discussing the question.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the contents of the Bill which is shortly to be brought forward are not the same as the proposals which were set out in the White Paper, and that it has aroused even greater disquiet and doubt on both sides of the House?

I think we shall have a very early opportunity of discussing this Bill.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what difference will be effected in the remuneration of sub-postmasters by the increased telegraphic charges.

At the outset the remuneration of sub-postmasters would not be changed: the ultimate changes could not be assessed until the effect of the increased charges on telegrams was known.

The actual rate of remuneration may not be altered, but has my hon. Friend made any assessment as to the reduction in the number of telegrams likely to be despatched and delivered by sub-postmasters?

It is rather difficult to do so. We have made a rough assessment, but I do not think it will affect the remuneration of sub-postmasters, at any rate at the beginning.

Is it not clear that the remuneration of sub-postmasters ought to be increased in any circumstances, because of the inadequate facilities now provided, due to the unwillingness of people to take on the job of sub-postmaster?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he will lay before the House a copy of the licence which will be issued to the independent Television Authority.

The licence, which is largely technical, will be laid in draft before the debate on Second Reading of the Television Bill. The terms of the licence cannot, of course, be finally settled at this early stage.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what consideration he has given to the British Broadcasting Corporation's plan to start a second British Broadcasting Corporation television programme in 1957 without any further increase in licence fee; and what decision he proposes to make in this matter.

The 10-year development plan announced by the B.B.C. in June, 1953, made provision for the introduction of a second television programme, but my noble Friend has not yet been asked to authorise any such specific proposal as the hon. Member suggests.

If the B.B.C. can produce a second television programme without any increase in the present licence fee why, according to the Minister's statement, should the fee be raised from £3 to £5 if anyone else does so?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is anticipating his next Question.

Does my hon. Friend think that it would be wise to delay a second B.B.C television programme until some approved system of colour is introduced, which would be widely welcomed in this country?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General on what assumptions, as to the cost of the second television programme and the number of licences sold, he bases his estimate that a £5 licence would be required to finance two television programmes.

The basic assumption was that the B.B.C. would provide a second television programme in 1955–56 for the same number of hours a day as we expect from the new authority. It was also assumed that there would be 4·3 million television licences, and that the second programme would cost as much in revenue expenditure, and one-third in capital expenditure, as the B.B.C's. existing television programme this year. Allowance was then made for Income Tax, Post Office costs, and contribution to the Exchequer, but no subsidy to television from sound.

It has never been suggested that the £5 licence would be needed if the B.B.C. were allowed to provide its second programme as part of its normal development plan. This would mean that it would start not earlier than 1957 and would have to build up from an hour or two a day to start with.

Is the Minister aware that the opinion is widely held that his calculation about a £5 licence is grossly inaccurate and gives a misleading impression? Is he aware that 5 million licences at £4 would provide, after ordinary deductions, £13 million a year? Is not that enough to finance two public service corporations in the next few years until the number of licences rises above 5 million?

I think there has been a certain amount of confusion about this point. I have looked up what has been said by my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary and by myself, and I find we have made it perfectly clear that if we want a second programme now the licence would cost £5.

When the hon. Gentleman mentions a second programme now, will he tell us how many stations he has in mind? Does he mean, one, two or three stations, or a national coverage? What has he in mind, and how long would this capital development take?

What the hon. Gentleman is asking is that I should explain a figure of £5 which I gave to the House a short time ago. The point is that if we did provide a second programme now, that is to say, if we gave national coverage equal to the five original B.B.C. stations, the licence would cost about £5.

Does my hon. Friend think that when we have more than one television programme the fees of the existing M.P. stars will rise unduly because they will have competition from other M.Ps.?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether the extra £1 for the service of commercial television will be required to be paid by holders of television sets in Scotland and other areas not serviced by commercial television,

The television licence fee is being increased from £2 to £3, not "for the service of commercial television" as the hon. Lady suggests, but in order to meet the development needs of the B.B.C. The new fee will be payable in all cases.

I can quite understand that it is to meet the development charges, but surely a concession should be made to the areas which are not to see these programmes. Would it not be possible to postpone the charge until nearer the day when the people in those areas will be able to see the programmes, or is the position that the programmes are of such low quality that the hon. Gentleman probably thinks it worth a pound for the privilege of not seeing them?

Whether the programmes will be worth looking at or not is one of those matters about which we must wait and see, but the hon. Lady will appreciate that the extra pound is not put on for the benefit of competitive television. If, in any particular area where there is no commercial television, there were a reduction, it would only be 3s.

Is my hon. Friend aware that private enterprise was willing to put on commercial television free of charge to the public, and that any extra cost which falls upon the licence holders is at the behest of the opponents of commercial television?

I think that my hon. and gallant Friend had better make his speech next week during the debate.

Is the Assistant Postmaster-General aware that he is misleading the House by failing to reveal, as part of his answer, that a considerable sum of money is going as a subsidy to bolster up commercial television; and he must be aware that it is part of the distrust which he and other people feel in letting the commercialisers move into this field?

I will reply to the hon. Member in the same terms as I replied to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr), that he had better wait till next week to make that speech.

Is it not the case that a recommendation was received from the B.B.C. that there should be a fee of £3, and that the £3 is required for the development of the B.B.C. and has nothing at all to do with commercial television?

The original request for £3 was made, of course, by the B.B.C.

In view of the announcement by the hon. Gentleman that we are to have a debate next week—which is a most unusual answer, I must say—will he also remember that he informed the House a fortnight ago that more than £750,000 out of this £1 increase was going to commercial television?

Perhaps I should amend what I said, and say that we shall have a debate in the near future.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applications he has received to act as television programme contractors; and what is the policy of his Department in regard to applications from interests which also propose to advertise on television.

As I informed the hon. Member for Islington, East (Mr. E. Fletcher) on 27th January, we have invited prospective applicants to hold preliminary talks, and we have so far met 42 of them. With regard to the second part of the Question, I would ask the hon. Member to await the debate on Second Reading of the Bill.

Will the Minister make it clear in that debate that the same individuals may not both advertise on television and produce television programmes?

I will keep in mind what the hon. Gentleman has just said.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us how many of these 42 applicants are disqualified persons under the terms of the new Bill?

I could not say that without notice.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what complaints he has recently received regarding the reception of radio and television programmes in the Grimsby area; and what action he is taking to improve the service.

The only such complaint is one sent to me last month by the right hon. Member himself. As I have already informed him, the B.B.C. say that, provided there is no severe local interference and good outdoor aerials are used, reception of both sound and television programmes in the Grimsby area should be generally satisfactory. I should, however, be glad to make further inquiry if the right hon. Member has other specific cases in mind.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that technical opinion in the area still maintains that the Home Service is very unsatisfactory after dark, and also that there is interference on the part of T.V. with the Light Programme? Will he see that his engineers get into touch with the association of engineers in the area who are making these complaints?

I thought we were in touch some little time ago and that as a result there had been an improvement. But if the right hon. Gentleman assures me that that is not so, I will have a look at the matter again.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether he will ensure that the television booster at Truleigh Hill is retained after the Isle of Wight transmitter is opened, so that the television booster will be able, if necessary, to relay an alternative television programme.

We understand that the B.B.C. will require this transmitter for service elsewhere, to extend the coverage of its first television programme.

Will my hon. Friend, who has done so much to improve reception in Brighton and district, tell the House what arrangements he will make to ensure that viewers on the South Coast will obtain a good reception of commercial television programmes from London, as envisaged by the Television Bill?

I am informed that when the right stations are ready there should be a satisfactory reception.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the estimated total cost, including capital and revenue expenditure of the British Broadcasting Corporation's single programme television service for the present financial year, and for the financial years ending March, 1955, and March. 1956, respectively.

For the present financial year the estimated cost is about £3½ million revenue expenditure and £1½ million capital expenditure.

As explained in my reply of 9th December last to my hon. Friends the Members for Harrow, East (Mr. Ian Harvey) and Shipley (Mr. Hirst), it is not the practice to give forecasts for B.B.C. expenditure.

Will my hon. Friend not agree that these figures tend to show that it would be quite impossible to provide an alternative service for the £3 licence fee, which, after all, was a proposal raised by the B.B.C. itself?

The B.B.C. never said that it could put on a second programme now. What I adhere to is that it would be impossible for the B.B.C, with a £3 licence, to provide a second programme at this stage.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the B.B.C. might take advantage of capital expenditure out of loan to provide additional services, and that V.H.F. to the West Country is badly needed?

One of the difficulties is that an enormous percentage of expenditure by the B.B.C. is not on capital but on programmes.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what estimated sum of money would have been diverted from broadcasting licence revenue to the Treasury in the next three financial years if the Treasury percentage had remained at the 15 fixed by the previous Government.

If the contribution to the Exchequer had remained at 15 per cent, of the net licence revenue (i.e. after deduction of 7½ per cent, to cover Post Office costs), I estimate that the Exchequer would have received £9·4 million in the next three financial years. As it is, the Exchequer will receive £6 million net.

Does not this figure make nonsense of the Opposition case that the money has been taken from what would have gone to the B.B.C, and is it not a fact that £1½ million would have gone to the Treasury if it had not been diverted to the competitive service?

It certainly would not have gone to the B.B.C.

If the licence holder does not pay this money, the general taxpayer does, and why should the general taxpayer subsidise commercial television?

The money comes out of licence revenue and, as such, goes to the Treasury. The Treasury distributes it as it thinks fit.

Is it not true that of this £3 million saved, £2 million will be lent to the commercial company?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the total sum of money, capital and revenue, spent on the British Broadcasting Corporation's single programme television service since its inception in 1936; and how much of this has come from television licence revenue and how much from sound licences.

There was no extra charge for television until 1946 and separate accounts were not kept until the post-war period. From 1st January, 1947, until 31st March, 1953, expenditure on television was approximately £14 million, and the net additional payments made to the B.B.C. directly attributable to the extra £1 charged per combined sound and television licence has amounted to £4 million. I cannot say how much of the difference was met from the revenue attributable to sound licences and how much from other sources.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the number of telegrams handled by the Post Office in 1935, 1945 and 1953.

For the financial years 1935–36, 1945–46 and 1952–53 the numbers of inland and overseas telegrams were 52·2 million, 74·2 million and 58·2 million respectively.

May I ask my hon. Friend if he thinks that if he makes an increased charge for telegrams there is likely to be an increase or a decrease in numbers?

We anticipate a decrease.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the number of telegram messengers employed by his Department in 1935, 1945 and 1953.

In 1935–36 about 5,500 and in 1952–53 5,439. Figures for 1945 are not available.

May I ask my hon. Friend if some of the losses sustained on telegrams may not have been brought about by this increased number of messengers employed?

It is not an increase; it is a decrease.

asked the Assistant Post master-General whether he will examine the possibility of charging a cheaper rate for telegrams sent to or from hospitals, in cases where the subject matter concerns the health and condition of patients.

Telegrams sent to hospitals about the condition of patients are not essentially different from telegrams about illness sent elsewhere, and there is no reason why they should be treated differently. As for telegrams sent by hospitals, any attempt to subsidise particular messages would be almost impossible to administer.

Will my hon. Friend look at this matter again? Would it not be easy to identify telegrams sent to and from hospitals? Secondly, are there not strong humanitarian reasons for doing this?

I should like to feel that we could do it, but it would certainly lead to abuse and it would be quite impossible administratively to operate.

asked the Assistant Post master-General if he will examine the possibility of charging a cheaper rate for telegrams containing only messages about persons' illnesses; and if he will make a statement.

I regret that it would be quite impracticable to operate a system under which the charge for a telegram depended on the accepting officer's assessment of the nature of the text.

Is not this done already in the case of greetings telegrams? Are not greetings telegrams identified by the officer in a similar way? Are there not equally strong humanitarian grounds for differentiating these telegrams?

There are not humanitarian grounds in the case of greetings telegrams, for the sender himself says that he wants to send a greetings telegram.

Will the hon. Gentleman inform his hon. Friend that greetings telegrams cost more, not less, than those sent under the ordinary service?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General (1) what estimate has been made of the additional cost which will fall on the wholesale fish industry by the proposed increase in the cost of telegrams; and whether he is aware of the fact that the increased cost will be passed on to the consumer by increasing the price of fish in the shops; and what action he is taking;

(2) whether he is aware that the 1951 General Post Office census of telegrams revealed that 5·4 per cent, of all telegrams sent in that year were either to or from merchants connected with the fishing industry; and what estimate he has of the total cost of all these telegrams.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General (1) how many telegrams, on average, are despatched and received daily in respect of the merchandising and distribution of fish from the principal fishing ports; what special rates are available to dealers; and whether, in view of the importance of a cheap telegraph service to the fishing industry, he will reconsider his decision to raise the costs of telegrams;

(2) if he is aware of the essential needs for an effective and cheap telegraph service in the merchandising and distribution of fish; and if he will estimate the increased costs to the consumer in consequence of the proposed increase in telegraph charges.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the fishing industry is the largest industrial user of the telegram service; that the proposed increased charges will add £200,000 a year to the cost of fish distribution; and whether he will grant special relief to industrial users of the service.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General to give an estimate of the average increase in the price of fish which will result to the consumer from the proposed increased charges for telegrams.

I am aware that the fish industry is the largest single user of the telegraph service, sending about 6,000 telegrams a day, and I estimate that the increased cost to the industry as a whole will be between £150,000 and £200,000 a year. Spread over the whole industry, the increase will amount to only one-fiftieth of a penny per pound of fish. No special rates are available for fish distributors, and my noble Friend would not be justified in giving a special subsidy to this industry at the expense of other users of Post Office services.

Is the Assistant Postmaster-General aware that, in view of the ever-increasing costs, the Trawler Owners' Association consider the imposition of a doubling of telegram costs, which will amount to £200,000 a year, will compel them to increase the price of fish to housewives? How does he square that with the repeated claim of the Government that they are not doing anything to increase the cost of living?

I shall be very surprised if an increase in the wholesale price of fish of one-fiftieth of a penny a pound will cause fishmongers to increase the retail price.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the British Trawler Owners' Association do not pay the telegram costs, and that those costs are paid by the wholesalers?

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the figure of one-fiftieth of a penny a pound increase in the cost to the merchants gives an entirely erroneous picture because costs are concentrated in a few ports, and this increase of £200,000 a year in distributing charges is bound to be passed on to the consumer? Will he have a look at this matter again? Will he answer the part of my Question concerned with that aspect, so that we may see whether preferential treatment can be given in order to help housewives?

I should like to help the trawler owners or anyone else, but I could only do it by calling on other Post Office users to pay more for other services than they are having to pay now.

Would my hon. Friend convey to certain other Ministers that they could help him in his dilemma if they would see to it that the White Fish Authority did its job a little more effectively and helped the fishing industry, so that the cost of telegraph charges would not fall so heavily on the industry? We should be obliged to him if he would make those representations.

In order to prevent this grossly excessive overcharging from inhibiting and frustrating business altogether, could not the Minister devise some special selective scheme which would apply to certain essential as distinct from non-essential industries?

I must remind the House that even with the increased charges, the fishmongers will still be getting a subsidy of 1s. 6d. on every telegram they send.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he will consider allowing reply-paid telegrams to be sent at the present charge, on the operation of the increased charge for telegrams.

No, Sir. Reply-paid telegrams cost the same to handle as ordinary telegrams.

Does the Minister appreciate that in the case of poor people who may have to send a reply-paid telegram to a daughter or other relative far away it means 6s. out of their pocket? Does not he think that that is an altogether disproportionate extra imposition?

I know that the increases in telegram charges are unwelcome, but we shall have an opportunity of discussing them when we debate the Bill which I have presented to the House, and perhaps the point mentioned by the hon. Member can be raised then.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he will consider reducing charges for telegrams which the sender intimates can be delivered by postmen on their normal rounds.

I think the hon. Member's point is largely met by the proposed overnight service in which messages will be accepted at any time up to 10 p.m. for delivery early the next morning. These messages, which will normally be sent out with the postal delivery, will be charged for at half the standard rate.

Do I understand that this is a concession and it means that under some circumstances telegrams can be sent at the old, or at least at a lower, charge than is anticipated? Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that if there is an intimation that a telegram could be delivered by the postman, that would obviate the charge arising from employing messengers?

That is so under the night telegram service which I announced in the House a short time ago.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many telegrams are handled weekly by the Grimsby Post Office; what proportion of these concern the fish trade.

About 15,300 telegrams a week are handled by the Grimsby Post Office, of which some 80 per cent, concern the fish trade.

Do not the figures indicate that the burden of this increase will be exceptionally heavy upon the fish trade, which is very much concentrated in the port of Grimsby. Could the hon. Member consider some concession for a limited time during the day because the traffic relating to fish is confined to a limited number of hours?

I shall be delighted to consider any possible scheme, but I must warn the right hon. Gentleman that I cannot possibly consider a scheme which will lose us any more money. He said that the fish trade was very largely concentrated on Grimsby, but I am told that there is more fish business in Hull than in Grimsby.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware of the burden that will be placed on the British fishing industry by the decision to double the cost of telegrams; and if he will meet a deputation from the industry to discuss the proposal.

I am aware that the fishing industry will be called upon to pay more towards the cost of the services it receives. I am always prepared to consider representations from anyone, but I can hold out no hope of being able to offer the fishing industry preferential treatment at the expense of other users of the Post Office.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware of the concern aroused in the fishing industry by the proposed increase in charges for telegrams; and what estimate he has of the number of business telegrams despatched annually by persons and firms engaged in that industry, expressed as a percentage of the total annual number of telegrams recorded.

Yes, Sir, 5·4 per cent.

Would my hon. Friend be prepared to consider, in connection with this vexed question, an extension of the hours for night telegrams?

I shall be prepared to consider anything, but it must not lose us more money.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General to whom copies of the minutes of the Post Office Advisory Council are supplied, apart from members of the council itself.

Apart from members of the council, circulation is confined to senior officials of the Department.

In that case, can my hon. Friend say how it was that the right hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Ness Edwards) was able to say, when the increases in telegram charges were announced, that he had a copy? Is the House to assume that he got it by irregular means?

No, the right hon. Member could not have had a copy because at that time the minutes had not been printed.

Will the hon. Gentleman make it clear to his hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle (Mr. Shepherd) that the Post Office Advisory Council is not some secret organisation, that the hon. Gentleman has always carried on the tradition of letting his predecessors know exactly what is happening, and that in fact a copy of the announcement which was to be made was discussed informally between his chief and myself that morning?

Yes, but what my hon. Friend referred to was a copy of the minutes of this particular meeting.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General whether he will give an estimate of the upper and lower limits in the capital cost involved in opening a sub-post office in an existing shop, where the shopkeeper is willing and anxious to run the services associated with a sub-office, and of the annual cost involved in keeping such an office open; and whether he will take steps to open such a sub-office in some shop in Galley Hill, Swanscombe, as near as possible to the site of the sub-office which was recently closed.

Sub-post offices are provided and maintained by private shopkeepers on an agency basis, and the details asked for by the hon. Member are not available to me.

It is hoped to start building a new Crown post office, on a site nearly opposite the former Galley Hill sub-office, towards the end of this year.

As it will be some considerable time before the Crown office is opened, will the Assistant Postmaster-General arrange for someone in his Department to meet the local council and other citizens to discuss the very serious difficulties and inconveniences which will arise for another couple of years as a result of the present situation?

I shall be delighted to do that, and perhaps the hon. Member will get in touch with me. The difficulty is whether we could persuade anyone to take on the job of sub-postmaster for two years when he knows that at the end of that time the Crown post office will take his place.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware that prior to the war, two postal deliveries per day were made in Invershin, Sutherland; that to economise in manpower, during the war, the service was reduced to one delivery per day; that the local postal authorities refused to reinstate the pre-war service, in spite of the fact that the population is increasing, that agricultural production has increased by 50 per cent, and that the tourist trade is also running at a much higher figure than in 1939; and if he will remedy this matter.

I am looking into this matter and will write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that important mail, which arrives in the post office in Invershin at nine o'clock in the morning lies there, and that delivery of it does not commence until the afternoon, and is that not a wrongful situation for any postal service in Great Britain?

Yes. I have promised to look into this matter and I will let my hon. Friend know as soon as possible.

Why does the hon. Gentleman allow any facilities in that area, since they cannot be economical and he cannot be making a profit?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what capital sum was expended last year, and what it is intended to expend this year, in installing new telegraphic apparatus.

Figures for calendar years are not available, but in 1952–53 the capital expenditure on telegraphs was about £1½ million, and in 1953–54 will be about the same. About one-third of this total is for plant for the public inland telegraph service, installed to reduce staff costs.

Is it the case that a considerable amount of new apparatus was installed in the telegraph system last year and, if that is the case, is it wise now to increase charges so much that the number of telegrams must inevitably fall greatly and, as a result, a great deal of this apparatus will not be fully used?

The hon. Gentleman has put his finger on one of our chief difficulties—to what extent to put more capital into a service which is actually dying, since the number of telegrams sent becomes less and less.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applicants are now waiting for telephones in the city of Aberdeen; at what rate the arrears are being overtaken; when he expects that the 200 applicants who, on 23rd July last, were awaiting telephones, will be supplied; how many new applications have been received since that day; and what is preventing his Department from wiping out the arrears completely.

Over 1,500 lines have been connected in Aberdeen during the past eight months, including the 200 mentioned by the hon. and learned Member. Although 1,120 new applications were received during this period the number outstanding has fallen to 735, excluding 267 under survey or in course of being met. A further substantial reduction in the waiting list must await the provision of additional local cables.

Does that mean that the Minister is overtaking the arrears or is the Department getting more into arrears? What is the hon. Gentleman's hope of wiping out the arrears altogether?

I certainly hope that we shall wipe out the arrears altogether. In fact we are doing so now. The position today is very much better than it was when the hon. and learned Member asked his last Question about it.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the number of telephones which were installed in Gateshead, County Durham, in 1953; and what number of applications still remain to be considered.

Three hundred and ninety-four telephones were installed in 1953; 84 applications are outstanding, excluding 118 in the course of being met or under inquiry.

Will the Minister agree that this question implies that the county borough of Gateshead is in County Durham? Is he aware that the B.B.C., in its request programme on 27th February, said that Gateshead was in the City of Newcastle? Will he take steps to correct that?

I am pleased to be able to tell the House that I am not responsible for the programmes of the B.B.C.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it is a great honour to be in the great county borough of Newcastle and that this slight slip of the B.B.C. gave great pleasure to many people in Gateshead and elsewhere?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many applications for telephones are outstanding in the Audenshaw, Denton and Droylsden areas of Lancashire; what progress has been made during the past 12 months towards meeting the requirements; and what progress may be expected during the next year.

Four hundred and ninety-eight applications are outstanding in the Audenshaw, Denton and Droylsden urban district areas. Two hundred and fifty-six were met last year, and I am hopeful that this rate of connection will continue.

Is the Minister aware that at this rate he will never cover the arrears? Cannot he do something better, having regard to the information that I have been bringing to his notice since March 1953? He does not seem to be doing anything at all in the matter.

I would not agree with that statement. There has been a decrease of no fewer than 371 in the numbers on the waiting list in the past 12 months.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General (1) by what method his Department ascertains the average time it takes for a subscriber wishing to make a trunk call to get an answer from the operator at the exchange through which the call is to be made;

(2) the longest time taken into consideration in ascertaining that the average time taken for a subscriber on the Chester telephone exchange to get an answer from the operator in order to make a trunk call was five-and-a-half seconds.

Times to answer are obtained by stop-watch timing of substantial numbers of calls by specially trained staff. Of nearly 4,000 calls timed by stop-watch at Chester over a recent period of three months, 90 per cent, were answered within 10 seconds, more than 98 per cent, were answered in less than half a minute and the longest time to answer was 155 seconds.

May I ask my hon. Friend how the time which frequently elapses between the subscriber dialling and the operator answering is taken into consideration when, in fact, the operator says that the call has only just come through? As to the second Question, may I ask if he is aware that that figure is quite inaccurate as regards the Chester exchange, because often a period of more than five minutes elapses before the operator answers?

I have given the figures as fixed by the test which we made over a period of three months. If my hon. Friend has a particular case in mind which he thinks took so long, I shall be delighted to look into it.

Will the hon. Gentleman compare the reply which he has given today with the reply which he gave last week, when he said that this was done by meter? Secondly, does he recall the question about not giving notice to the supervisor whenever exchange test calls were to be made.

We have fitted meters in some exchanges but I was wrong if I suggested that there was one at Chester. I did not follow the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question.

I asked if checks ought to be made independently without supervisors knowing that they are to be made.

That is what normally happens.

Can my hon. Friend say what number of staff are engaged in this matter.

Not without notice.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General how many farmers in Scotland pay at the business rate for telephones installed in their homes; how many pay at the private rate; and who determines when the business element is substantial and predominates.

The information asked for in the first part of the Question is not readily available, and to get it would require a disproportionate amount of time and labour. Where the telephone is not used solely for residential or business purposes the rental is determined by the local telephone manager.

Could my hon. Friend not find out how many farmers have business telephones installed? Would it not be right to assume that practically none have, because that would be discrimination against farmers, which is what prompted this Question?

I can assure my hon. Friend that there is no question of discriminating against anybody, but if I were to get the figures—and I could get them— it would mean going through the list of farmers' telephones for the whole of the United Kingdom.

Has it not been pointed out already by my hon. Friend the Member for Wednesbury (Mr. S. N. Evans) that farmers are already subsidised and feather-bedded?

Is it not a fact that the farmer, like all other people in business, must use his private telephone to some extent for business reasons, and is it not pettifogging and pitiful to suggest that any fanner should have a business rate of rental imposed on him for a telephone in his own house?

It all depends on the size of the undertaking, and this power of discretion which has been exercised by telephone managers has never been challenged, so far as I am aware.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what steps he is taking to ensure that telephone facilities in Grimsby will be capable of handling the additional traffic which will be diverted to the telephone system following an increase in the cost of telegrams.

A considerable extension of equipment and lines at Grimsby exchange is now in progress and should be completed within the next two or three months.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if these increases are brought into force the merchants will inevitably have to switch a lot of their business to the telephone, and that there is a great deal of difficulty in obtaining telephone facilities on the dockside? Will the hon. Gentleman undertake to consider a priority for facilities at the docks where they are required?

I shall be delighted to do anything in that direction.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware that a telephone has been denied to the secretary of the women's rural institutes in Caithness since 1952, on the grounds that some external wiring would be required from the local guest house to the schoolhouse in Watten, and as some external wiring must be required with all telephones, why this particular application has been discriminated against in spite of its importance to a remotely situated rural community.

As I have explained to my hon. Friend in correspondence, it has not hitherto been possible to supply a telephone in this case because of the claims of prior applicants. I am inquiring into the present position and will write to my hon. Friend.

Will my hon. Friend begin to give some of the good services he has been giving to Brighton to the Highland area, where they are much more required than is television in Brighton? Does he realise that women's rural institutes in a remotely situated area such as mine are most valuable institutions, and that it is wrong that this lady, who is the honorary secretary, should be deprived of a telephone to carry on this important social service?

I would not like to answer that question until I have had a chance to look into the matter, but as I have said, I will let my hon. Friend know.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General when he expects the 324 applications for new telephones now outstanding in Rugby will be satisfied; and the difficulties which hinder him doing this.

About half of these applications will be dealt with during the next six months; in the remainder the main difficulty is shortage of cables, but I am looking into the position and will write to the hon. Member.

Will the Minister take it from me that many of my constituents are getting impatient about this matter, despite the good news he has given me, including town councillors, members of national executives of trade unions, and the like, and can he give an assurance that he will satisfy their claims in the near future?

I cannot give a categorical assurance, but I will reassure the hon. Gentleman by reminding him that the waiting list has gone down by nearly 100 in the past 12 months.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what assistance is afforded by his Department in compiling the publication "Air Power."

"Air Power" is a commercial publication, and the articles in it express the personal views of their authors. An Air Ministry advisory committee exists, however, to give the editor any advice for which he asks.

In view of the fact that the Air Ministry assists in giving advice, would my hon. Friend keep a watch on this publication, because it has been represented to me that certain of the articles in recent issues are of a contentious nature and calculated to foment ill-feeling between the Services?

As I understand it, the policy of the editor of this periodical is to throw open his pages to constructive debate on important matters of air policy, even if they are controversial.

Will the hon. Gentleman continue to give all the support he can to this publication and in no way inhibit freedom of expression?

Will my hon. Friend say whether he considers it is desirable for senior officers of one Service to slang the senior officers of another Service, with the assistance of his Ministry?

Will not the Government find it exceedingly and continuously difficult to restrain this sort of thing unless they conduct a high level Ministerial inquiry into the whole relationship between the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force?

I suppose that my hon. and gallant Friend is referring to an article written by Sir John Slessor which expressed the author's personal views, and was written in reply to an essay on maritime air power by a naval officer which drew very different conclusions.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware that the low flying of jet aircraft over populated districts is not only a menace to public safety, but is also injurious to the health of young children, expectant mothers, invalids and aged persons; and what action he proposes to take to prohibit such low flying.

Aircraft are normally forbidden to fly low over built-up areas. From time to time, however, special air defence exercises take place, in the course of which some flying over built-up areas is unavoidable if realism is to be maintained. Such exercises are a vital part of the training of our fighter defences against enemy attacks, which might be made at any level. Advance notice of all low-flying exercises is given to the police and the local Press.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the complaints that I have received are not of flying exercises but of single, solitary low-flying jet aircraft, usually on Sunday afternoons, frightening the lives out of people and causing damage to property? Is he aware that the general public do not accept that as being a necessity? Will he look into the matter and see whether he can stop this practice?

Queen's Regulations prohibit flying at an altitude below 2,000 feet unless expressly authorised, and disciplinary action would be taken against any pilot who deliberately broke these Regulations. If my hon. Friend could give me any details of any such case, I should be willing to look into the matter.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air why some employees registered as dilutees in Air Ministry engineering establishments are treated more favourably than others with similar trade credentials when they apply for removal from the dilutee register.

These cases are considered by local joint committees, consisting of representatives of the Air Ministry and the Amalgamated Engineering Union. Some variations of practice between different local committees are probably unavoidable, but I am not aware that any local committee has given different treatment to two men whose industrial histories are the same.

Is my hon. Friend aware that so many cases of discrimination where submitted to his Department by the Aeronautical Engineers' Association that his Department declined to receive any more? May I draw his attention not to two men but to one man who so long as he was a member of the Association was refused registration but was given it when he became a member of the Amalgamated Engineering Union?

Is not this question of dilutees solely a matter between the Amalgamated Engineering Union and the Air Ministry?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what steps are taken by his Department when registering employees as dilutee tradesmen to ensure that they do not in fact possess the requisite trade credentials to entitle them to be recognised as craftsmen; how far they are consulted at the time of registration; and what means of appeal to an impartial body they have against registration as dilutees.

A local joint committee, consisting of representatives of the Air Ministry and the Amalgamated Engineering Union, considers an employee's industrial history before deciding whether he should be registered as a dilutee and employed on craftsman's work. If the Committee needs further information the man is asked to supply it through either the Departmental or the union representative.

This procedure is laid down in the Relaxation of Customs Agreement between the Air Ministry and the union; the application of the agreement is a matter for the two parties to it, and there is no provision for matters arising out of it to be referred to a third party.