asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made in ensuring the complete registration of all cases of cancer.

Effective registration of new cases in hospitals in England and Wales, which were 23,239 in 1945, 40,333 in 1947 and 49,110 in 1948, are expected to be about 58,000 for 1953. This last figure is estimated to be about half the total probable number of new cases of cancer in 1953 in England and Wales. I have recently issued a circular encouraging hospitals to make still greater efforts to achieve the registration of all cases, and I have asked for progress reports by 30th June.

While thanking the Minister for that information, in view of the need to have complete records of the incidence of cancer in order to deal with it better, may I ask the Minister to state whether it is now being done on a voluntary basis or whether it is compulsory for the hospitals to keep these records? If it is on a voluntary basis, why is that?

It is still being done on a voluntary basis. I have recently been advised by my Standing Advisory Committee that, for a variety of very complicated reasons, it is best that it should continue on a voluntary basis.

asked the Minister of Health what sums have been allocated to the West Cornwall Hospital Management Committee in the current financial year for capital and maintenance, respectively; and what are the allocations for the financial year 1954–55.

These are matters for regional boards and no specific allocation is made by me to management committees. I am, however, informed that during the current financial year £13,127 has been spent on capital works at hospitals in the group and that the estimated cost of works to be undertaken during 1954–55 is £12,000. I understand also that the maintenance allocation for the current financial year made by the board to the committee, including supplementary allocations so far, is £879,676; and that the allocation for 1954–55, which takes account of exceptional expenditure in the current year that will relieve the cost falling to be met next year, is £869,676, with the possibility of a further sum to meet increased maintenance costs resulting from the new Camborne outpatients department.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the amount allocated for capital expenditure is a very small percentage of that allocated for maintenance? As many of these hospitals are old buildings which need a good deal of improvement, will he ask the regional board to see that a greater allocation is made for capital expenditure, possibly by a Supplementary Estimate this year and an increased Estimate next year?

The capital sum is, of course, small in relation to the maintenance sum, but this management committee has had a very fair share of the capital sums available.

Can my right hon. Friend give me an assurance that the West Cornwall Hospital Management Committee is getting a fair share of the allocation in this connection?

Yes, indeed. I have looked at the figures since 1948. The Committee has had one-sixth of the total allocation for capital sums for the whole of the region and, as there are 37 groups in the region, the committee has done six times as well as the average.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the improvement works which are required at Dryburn Hospital, Durham, and at the General Hospital, Chester-le-Street, he will increase the capital allocation to the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board to enable such improvements to be carried out in the near future.

asked the Minister of Health if he will increase the capital allocation to the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board to enable the necessary work at Dryburn Hospital, Durham, and Chester-le-Street General Hospital, of which he has been made aware, to be commenced and completed.

Allocations for 1954–55 have already been made, and I cannot increase this board's share. It is for the board to decide the relative priority of these and other schemes in the region.

Is the Minister aware that among the improvements required at Chester-le-Street General Hospital is a lift for the surgical wards, and that an out-patients' department is badly needed as well as an extension to the X-ray department, all of which are necessary for the efficiency of the hospital service? Will he do all he possibly can to increase the capital allocation and urge upon the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board that that capital allocation is devoted to carrying out these improvements?

I take note of what the hon. Member says. As he knows, I am aware of the difficulties at Chester-le-Street. I am certain that the regional board will see this Question and answer, but I must insist that it is for the board to decide on allocations and priorities within its region.

Is the Minister aware that my hon. Friend the Member for Chester-le-Street (Mr. Bartley) and myself have visited this hospital. Whilst reinforcing what my hon. Friend has said, may I ask whether the Minister is aware that many of the wards, especially at Dryburn Hospital, are still using old-fashioned slow combustion stoves, that they are not giving satisfactory heat and have to be refuelled at all times of the day and night when patients are supposed to be sleeping? Is not this a shocking state of affairs? Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his decision and grant capital so that the hospital board can get on with improvements?

I am aware of the points which have been made. In addition to visiting the hospital, the hon. Members visited me, and so I have personal knowledge of the matter. However, I must insist as a matter of principle that regional boards shall judge as between priorities in their regions.

I fully support the case made by hon. Members opposite. Why should this region have a lower capital allocation? Will my right hon. Friend receive a deputation from the hospital board to discuss this matter? It is intolerable that we should have less than other people.

There is a Question on the Order Paper on the subject of the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, but, as to a deputation from the hospital board, I have not been notified of the board's desire to see me. If the board want it, I will meet its members.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a special capital allocation to regional hospital boards to meet major expenditure upon the modernisation of heating, sanitation and laundry arrangements in order to secure economies in running expenses.

Revenue-saving projects are already among those to which regional boards have been asked to give priority. I am, however, already reviewing the possibility of some special allocation in the future.

Whilst appreciating that answer, may I ask if the right hon. Gentleman realises that the Public Accounts Committee has recommended that some special allocation should be made for this specific objective and that there are many schemes which could be a real saving to hospitals in all parts of the country?

I agree fully, but there are two difficulties. First, if one starts allocating centrally for this purpose it takes away the authority of the regional boards. Secondly, if it were known that there was a special allocation there might be a temptation to regional boards to spend less from within their ordinary amount on these important projects, but, as I indicated, I am looking at the matter.

Since throughout the country we are still operating so much with emergency hospitals set up during the war, does the right hon. Gentleman not think it time that new projects should be introduced, and especially county hospitals? For example, we have had under consideration for a long time building a new hospital in Durham. When shall we get on with that project?

I want to see hospitals built as soon as we can. It is 15 years since one was built in this country, but it is something of a start that one is being built this year.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the disadvantageous capital allocations made to the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board compared with other regions, he will state the basis on which such allocations are made.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave to her supplementary question on 11th March.

As my right hon. Friend agrees that we have a less capital allocation than other regions, what does he propose to do about it?

I am afraid I do not agree. It is perfectly reasonable to say, if my hon. Friends wants to, that the amount allocated is not enough, but it cannot be said that Newcastle suffers in relation to other regions. As I explained last week, 95 per cent, is on a population basis and Newcastle gains further from the proportion of 5 per cent, for special needs.

Then the regional hospital board is not making a proper statement and my right hon. Friend is denying what his own regional board has announced?

I am certain there is no dispute between the board and myself on how capital investment is allocated—95 per cent, on the basis of population and 5 per cent, on special needs—which results in Newcastle getting substantially more, about £50,000 more, than it would get on the ordinary allocation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that 5 per cent. for special needs is not nearly sufficient for this area, which is one of the worst areas in the country for hospital accommodation? Is he aware that the regional board, all the local authorities in the area and the population generally, are grossly dissatisfied with this very small special allocation? Will he look into it?

I am not saying that the regional board of this area or any other is satisfied with the allocation. All I am saying, which indeed is true, is that it is not right to say that the capital allocation is disadvantageous in comparison with other regions.

Is not the real problem that no hospital board is satisfied with its allocation and should not the right hon. Gentleman go to the Treasury for a bigger one?

asked the Minister of Health what are the plans to enlarge Broadmoor Hospital; and whether they include additional staff houses.

There are no present proposals for increasing the number of places for patients. It is hoped to start building 12 staff cottages at an early date.

When considering this matter, will my right hon. Friend consider whether the solution is, not an enlargement, but an additional hospital?

I am prepared to look at that suggestion, but it is another question.

asked the Minister of Health the estimated deficit in hospital personnel and beds throughout the country.

Estimates of this kind are so largely speculative, and would vary so much from area to area, that I am not prepared to put any forward.

Can my right hon. Friend give any idea of the speed with which he hopes to overcome the difficulties that now confront him?

As quickly as possible within the limits of the sums available.

asked the Minister of Health how many patients in Birmingham are awaiting hospital treatment; and how many beds are not available owing to lack of staff.

I am obtaining the latest available information and will write to the hon. Member.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider some of the objections which doctors are raising about the danger of reducing the waiting lists by turning patients out before they have really had sufficient treatment? Will he watch that in considering this matter?

Yes, I will watch that—I am not absolutely certain to what the hon. Member refers. There has been a great deal of work going on in that region on the question of the turnover of hospital patients. Perhaps the case of the hon. Member is that that has gone on too fast. If so, and if he has any evidence, I shall be glad if he will draw my attention to it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Birmingham an isolation hospital has recently been turned over to use as a general hospital and that some of the wards are empty because of lack of staff, whereas the waiting patients would soon fill it up if only staff could be found?

I should like to look into that question.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the lack of repair facilities for Medresco hearing-aid users in Durham, and that the people who are in need of such a repair service have to travel to Newcastle, which means a journey of two hours there and back; and if he will take steps to have such a repair service established in Durham.

I am informed that Durham patients can take their aids to the County Hospital, and the hospital will send them to Sunderland for repair and return.

Is the Minister aware of the great inconvenience to people using this hearing aid if they cannot have the repair work done within a reasonable time, and does he not think that a repair service can be established in Durham?

The regional board is looking at the possibility of an extra repair centre in Durham, at South Shields and also at Bishop Auckland, and as the Sunderland waiting list has virtually disappeared, the position should be a great deal easier.

asked the Minister of Health how many hearing aids were fitted at the Truro clinic during 1953.

Seventy, of which four were in replacement of aids sent for repair.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it is 70 miles from the western end of my constituency to Plymouth and that there is a good deal of unrest at people having to go so far to get their hearing aids, and at such cost in travelling? Now that the shortage of supply of hearing aids is being rapidly overtaken, cannot the right hon. Gentleman arrange for all cases to be dealt with at Truro?

I think that this problem will clear itself, because Truro is a sub-centre of Plymouth and, as the hon. Members knows, Plymouth is up to date. The management committee has been asked whether it can provide accommodation at Truro for more frequent fitting sessions now that the technicians can spare more time away from Plymouth. I will watch the position, but I think that it will clear itself.

asked the Minister of Health the number of adults and children seen by the hospital consultant at Ashton-under-Lyne General Hospital who are now awaiting treatment for tonsils and adenoids; and how this number compares with 3rd December, 1953.

Forty-eight and 219, as compared with 76 and 226.

Is not the Minister aware that there is tremendous concern in this area, and that in August, 1953, I was given an assurance by his Parliamentary Secretary that something substantial would be done, that on 3rd December I again raised the matter and was given some encouraging information, but that it does not seem from the figures which the right hon. Gentleman has now given that he is making any progress whatsoever?

We are making a little progress in regard to the children's waiting list and the adults' waiting list has been reduced by one-third. That is something. However, the waiting list is not always a good guide in this case because the hospitals rightly concentrate on admitting clinically urgent cases which may or may not be on the waiting list.

Has the Minister any evidence that he is progressing even with the serious cases as rapidly as he would like?

I did not say as rapidly as I should like, but the figures show some improvement.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the concern felt by members of the Divisional Executive No. 24, Lancashire Education Committee, and by the divisional health authorities, that since mid-December last, the hospital board have not invited any cases from the waiting lists at the divisional clinics to be seen by their ear, nose and throat consultant; and what steps he proposes to take to effect improvement.

I am informed that since 3rd December six children from the school clinic waiting list have been examined and that since the beginning of the year 30 out of the 100 ear, nose and throat operations at the Ashton-under-Lyne General Hospital have been on patients from the school clinics. An additional out-patient session and an additional operating session have been functioning at the hospital for about a month, and an additional senior house officer began work there this week.

Will not the Minister agree that this discloses a most distressing state of affairs in that area, namely, that only six, or a dozen children at most, have been treated since the middle of December, when to my knowledge there is a waiting list of nearly 300? What will he do about it? Will he not take special steps in the matter?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman heard the last part of my answer. I said that an additional outpatient session and an additional operating session have been functioning at the hospital for about a month, and that an additional senior house officer began work there this week.

Anything will satisfy the right hon. Gentleman.

asked the Minister of Health in what circumstances children needing operative treatment for adenoids and tonsils at the Ashton-under-Lyne General Hospital may be given priority treatment on payment of a £10 private fee; how many children have been so treated since 3rd December; and what additional waiting period has consequently been imposed upon children whose parents are unable to pay such a high fee.

Perhaps this answer will satisfy the hon. Member. Private beds are available in this hospital for any patient who wishes to be treated privately on the same basis as in other hospitals. I am informed that one child had had this operation privately since 3rd December, but the effect on the waiting period of other patients is, of course, negligible.

Is the Minister aware that the chairman of an important committee connected with the health of children has disclosed that in one serious case the parents had to undertake responsibility of a £10 fee before the doctor could authorise this operation? Is he further aware that, as a result of the publicity given to this matter, I have had a letter from a man in Stoke-on-Trent who says that he was forced to pay over £35 in order to have this serious condition dealt with in his child? Is it not time that the right hon. Gentleman dealt with this matter as one of great urgency and importance to the health of our children?

Unless the hon. Gentleman wants to challenge my figures—in which case he should produce his own—the fact that one operation has taken place privately since 3rd December cannot have had any effect on the waiting list.

Since I have given the Minister two cases, I think that I have proved my case as well as he has proved his.

Is the Minister aware that this is happening not only in Ashton-under-Lyne but also in some of our great cities, and that in Birmingham there have been a number of cases where children have had to wait 12 months or more? As this must be detrimental to their health, will the right hon. Gentleman look into this matter?

I am aware that there are substantial waiting lists in many cities, but it is also fair to say that these are the most unreal of all waiting lists.

asked the Minister of Health (1) the average period for children who are awaiting admission to Manchester hospitals for ear, nose and throat operations;

(2) how many children are awaiting admission to Manchester hospitals for ear, nose and throat operations.

I am making inquiries and will write to the hon. Member.

Will the Minister be good enough to inform us whether there has been an improvement in the position? Is he aware that the allegations made by my hon. Friend the Member for Droylsden (Mr. W. R. Williams) about the apprehensions felt about the effect of paid for operations also apply to Manchester? I hope that he will give some information on that subject to support or refute these contentions.

I will try to do so as soon as all the information is in from the hospitals.

asked the Minister of Health what proportion of the additional £17 million to be provided for the National Health Service is to be devoted to the hospital service.

asked the Minister of Health what proportion of the additional £17 million to be provided for the National Health Service is to be devoted to the Principality of Wales.

I would ask the hon. Members to await publication of the Estimates, expected later this month.

asked the Minister of Health how much of the additional £17 million to be provided for the National Health Service will foe for the purpose of increasing the payments to consultants.

I do not think it would be right for me to make any statement on this point while negotiations are still in progress.

asked the Minister of Health if the Leeds Regional Hospital Board have yet found any use for the 52 empty rooms of the Queen Hotel, Harrogate, which were empty last May; and how many of these rooms have been empty for two or more years.

Of a total of 189 usable rooms, 30, including 19 in the attics, are not yet in use. About this number have been empty for two years or more. The empty rooms are allocated to the preliminary nurse training school, which is to receive students from an additional hospital next month.

If some of these rooms, which have now been empty for nearly three years, are not used by the regional hospital board, would my right hon. Friend see that his regional office finds some use for them, or that they are passed over to some other Government Department so that they can be used?

I am not satisfied about the question of the occupancy of this place, although it has considerably improved, but the board tells me that it hopes to fill all the rooms as from the course after next in view of the additional intake.

Will the Minister tell us the reason for the delay, which is rather distressing? Is he aware that his hon. and gallant Friend used to go for me on this about three years ago and it seems strange that it has not been possible to find nurses even yet?

I disclaim all responsibility for taking this hotel as the regional hospital board headquarters. There has been a long delay, and I hope the matter will be cleared up.

Will the Minister at least suggest to his hon. and gallant Friend that he might accept the invitation of the regional hospital people to meet and discuss all these problems to which he keeps referring in connection with this hotel? Is he further aware that spring is coming, which is the usual time when his hon. and gallant Friend attacks this regional hospital board?

asked the Minister of Health the cost for the year 1953 of maintaining the gardens, greenhouses, etc., at the Queen Hotel, Harrogate, by the Leeds Regional Hospital Board; and what steps have been taken to economise on this expenditure.

£1,310 1s. 10d., including £104 4s. 9d. for storm damage repair and certain expenditure at Coronation time. Every effort is made to keep this expenditure as low as possible.

When my right hon. Friend comes to consider the uneconomical gardens and farms run by the different hospitals and hospital boards, will he consider this expenditure also, because it is rather large just to keep up a garden?

Yes, but there is a special difficulty here, in that it was a condition of planning approval that the board should keep up these gardens, and I have to fulfil that. As far as the staff is concerned, all that are employed are one gardener and two labourers. Of the labourers, one is practically blind and is only kept on for compassionate reasons.

Is the Minister aware that the only interest that his hon. and gallant Friend has in this matter is that the solitary gardener so frequently beats him in competitions in the area?

asked the Minister of Health how many managers, caterers, housekeepers, domestic supervisors, assistant housekeepers, head cooks, cooks, assistant cooks, whole-time porters, kitchen hands and domestic staff, part-time porters, kitchen hands and domestic staff, electrical and mechanical maintenance engineers, steam stokers, gardeners and assistant gardeners are employed by the Leeds Regional Hospital Board at the Queen Hotel, Harrogate; and what is the cost and salaries per year of these full-time and part-time staff.

As the answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Are the 40 people or more employed in this place more or less than those employed by other regional hospital boards, because it seems an extraordinary number of people to be so employed?

I am afraid that I cannot undertake to summarise the enormous document which I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT, SO perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will look at it?

May I express the hope that the figures are not too large?

Will the right hon. Gentleman inform his hon. and gallant Friend of what is taking place at the Queen Hotel, Harrogate? Will he point out that it is not just an ordinary hospital in the accepted sense but a training ground for the nurses in the area, and that it is really being run very economically and very well indeed?

Following is the answer:

Supervisory Staff

1 Manager/Caterer.

1 Manageress/Home Warden.

1 Domestic Supervisor.

Domestic Assistants (equivalent of 198 hours per week).

P.T.S. and Nurses' Home

1 Linenwoman.

1 Seamstress.

1 Senior Housemaid.

Domestic Assistants (equivalent of 318 hours per week).

Catering Staff

Kitchen

1 Head Cook.

1 Cook.

1 Assistant Cook.

1 Domestic Assistant.

Part-time Domestic Assistants (equivalent of 27½ hours per week).

1 Porter.

Dining Room, plate-room and still-room

1 Waitress.

5 Domestic Assistants.

Par-time Domestic Assistants (equivalent of 12 hours per week).

Maintenance, etc., Staff

1 Maintenance Engineer.

1 Handyman.

3 Stokers.

1 Relief Stoker/Handyman.

1 Propagating Gardener.

2 Gardening Labourers.

3 General Porters.

Part-time General Porters (equivalent of 24 hours per week).

1 Storekeeper, Cl. IV.

The above employees are whole-time except—

(a) where stated to be part-time, and

(b) where total weekly hours for a particular grade are stated—in each case some employees are whole-time and some part-time.

The salaries and wages paid to the above staff amount to £14,842 in 1953–54 and an analysis of that figure is as follows:

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the fact that officers of his Department, in a letter dated 13th January, 1954, stated that, where elastic stockings are ordered without other description in the prescription, the contractors should supply Lastonet, and, in view of the fact that this is discrimination on behalf of one private firm at the expense of local manufacturers of these elastic stockings, whether he will now put an end to the practice.

My right hon. Friend has not been able to trace such a letter, and perhaps the hon. Member can let him have a copy of it. With regard to the current arrangements, he cannot add to what was said in his reply on 11th March.

I should be very pleased to submit to the hon. Lady a letter that is in my possession, which, among other things, says: Strictly speaking, we shall in this case—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] I will most certainly submit the evidence of this letter to the hon. Lady at the very earliest opportunity. Will she take into consideration the fact that manufacturers of these surgical articles are very concerned about this position? Will the Minister receive a deputation from the manufacturers to discuss their complaint?

I can only repeat what my right hon. Friend stated in a reply last week, that there has been no instruction centrally. I shall be very happy to look at the evidence, although the hon. Member has not said from what address it emanates. The Department designates the fabric required, but not the brand.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the report of the working party on the recruitment, training and qualifications of sanitary inspectors.

No, Sir, but consultations with my right hon. Friend's colleagues are almost complete and he hopes to do so shortly.

Does the hon. Lady realise how important this matter is, in view of the additional duties which are being imposed upon sanitary inspectors by Bills which are now going through this House? Is she aware that in mere replacement of casual vacancies we are now short of about 50 sanitary inspectors every year?

My right hon. Friend appreciates that fact. The hon. Member will realise that this concerns more than one Department, that opinion on this subject is not unanimous among the bodies that are interested and that all these matters have to be taken into consideration. That is being done as soon as possible.

Will the hon. Lady let me know when I can put a Question again on the Order Paper in expectation of an answer?

asked the Minister of Health when he expects to introduce area averages of prescribing costs in England and Wales in view of the commencement of a similar scheme in Scotland.

The matter is now under discussion with the chemists and with the Joint Pricing Committees, and my right hon. Friend is not yet in a position to give a date.

In view of the fact that we are sufficiently far forward with pricing to make this a reasonably practicable proposal, does the hon. Lady's right hon. Friend appreciate the importance of giving the extra responsibility to doctors to check their own prescribing costs as probably one of the best ways of keeping costs down?

I recognise that, but it is essential to clear arrears first before starting on a new and complicated scheme.

asked the Minister of Health the position regarding the use of Roter gastric ulcer tablets for the National Health Service; and if there is any non-proprietary medicine with exactly the same chemical composition and curative properties.

The Joint Committee on Prescribing classified these tablets among preparations not proved to be of therapeutic value and my right hon. Friend has asked practitioners generally not to prescribe such preparations. They remain free, of course, to prescribe any medicine they consider necessary for treatment, but they may be called upon to justify their decision. There are standard preparations with similar properties to those claimed for these tablets, but none to the same formula.

Is my hon. Friend quite satisfied that other preparations with similar properties will have exactly the same curative effects?

As I am not either a doctor or a chemist, I cannot claim to be qualified to answer that question.

Will the hon. Lady ask the Postmaster-General to see that products of this kind are not advertised on commercial television?

asked the Minister of Health to state, as a percentage of the population, the beds available in all regions for general purposes, tuberculosis, mental diseases, chronic sick, emergency and convalescence, respectively.

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate the information, in so far as it is available, in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask if he pays any attention to how hospitals for the treatment of various diseases are spread over the country on a population basis? Is it not in that way that he will really discover how the regions are served and whether they are served properly or not?

That is certainly a matter that is taken into consideration, although, for reasons that I gave last week, that has to figure more largely in capital calculations than in maintenance costs.

Following are the figures:

asked the Minister of Health how many cases of pulmonary tuberculosis are awaiting admission to sanatoria in Birmingham; and how many are likely to be admitted during the next six months.

I am informed that 511 cases are awaiting admission to the sanatoria serving Birmingham, and admissions in the next six months are likely to total 750.

Is the Minister satisfied with this position? It is of considerable importance, and it is a very serious matter that there should be these patients waiting—as many as 500.

It is true that the waiting list is substantial, but, as I indicated, the number of admissions in the next three months will more than cover the position, and urgent cases are admitted at once. I am by no means satisfied with the situation, but I think that probably it will get better.

asked the Minister of Health what percentage of the 2,098 patients now on the waiting list of the Birmingham Dental Hospital is likely to receive treatment during the next six months.

About 72 per cent.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this dental hospital in Birmingham is like a mass overcrowded barber's shop, with dental chairs almost touching each other and that this shocking state of affairs has been going on for a very long time? Will he discuss the matter with the regional hospital board and see if we cannot have alternative accommodation?

Yes, I agree it is a very difficult problem. It largely arises out of the site problems, which I am sure the hon. Member knows exist, in that area. The regional board are looking at that as a matter of urgency and hope to get something in the locality.

asked the Minister of Education what progress has been made in the discussions with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on preventing unsuitable persons organising or being employed on the teaching staff of private schools.

I am not yet in a position to make any statement, but I hope to be able to do so very soon.

Whilst thanking the right hon. Lady for that answer, may I ask if she is aware that there is a great deal of evidence now that this is a national scandal? In view of the danger to children, will she expedite her statement at the earliest moment?

Yes, I think my answer shows that I hope very soon to be able to make a statement.

asked the Minister of Education how many new schools were completed in Bradford during 1953; and what is the programme agreed upon for 1954.

One new school was completed in Bradford in 1953. The approved programmes for the financial years 1953–54 and 1954–55 include four new schools to be started during the next 13 months.

asked the Minister of Education how many new places were provided for schoolchildren in Bradford, arising from the 1953 school-building programme; and what was the net increase in the school population for the same period.

Seven hundred and eighty additional school places were provided by means of building in Bradford during the year 1953, during which period the net increase in the school population was about 1,350.

asked the Minister of Education how many of the estimated 180,000 new school places to be provided between now and January, 1955, will be secondary modern and secondary grammar, respectively.

About 80,000 of the new places to be brought into use by the end of January, 1955, will be secondary places. But I cannot say how many of these will be secondary modern or secondary grammar places, because the progress of individual building projects is subject to many varying influences.

Will the Minister try again to see if she can get those figures, because it is important to know what balance there is in a particular area? This is a vital matter; will she look into it again?

Yes, if the hon. Member will put a Question dealing with a particular area and asking how many are to be secondary and how many primary places, I think we can get the figures.

Is the right hon. Member aware that some of us have a great fear that she might choose the figures to suit herself, as in the case of Cheshire County Council, which has been told by her how many secondary schools it should have?

May I ask why separate figures are not available since, presumably, the right hon. Lady has to agree to the development plan in every area?

Yes, but if the hon. Lady will look at the Question she will see that it asks how many of the 180,000 new places are to be ready by January, 1955.

asked the Minister of Education (1) how many of the estimated 180,000 new school places to be provided between now and January, 1955, for both secondary modern and secondary grammar will be provided in classes of over 30, and classes of over 40, respectively;

(2) how many of the estimated 180,000 new school places to be provided between now and January, 1955, for primary schools will be provided in classes of over 30, and classes of over 40, respectively.

The estimate refers to the number of pupils for whom the new buildings are designed in accordance with the Standards for School Premises Regulations, 1951; these Regulations are based on classes of 30 and 40 in secondary and primary schools, respectively.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that her answer does not really get at the problem, because there is a great feeling in the country that many of the new places are being provided in schools which are now overcrowded and that the new places are merely adding to overcrowding? Only this week I heard of a case in London where new places are provided in classrooms in which the figure will now go to well over 40. A wrong picture is given if we do not estimate the amount of overcrowding. Will the right hon. Lady not be so complacent?

If the hon. Member will look at the Question, he will see that he is asking me about new school places to be provided between now and January, 1955, and for how many children those places are being provided. As I said, the buildings are designed for 30 in secondary school classes and for 40 in primary school classes, but I cannot guarantee—as there are differences throughout the country—exactly how many children will be in each of those classrooms by the end of 1955.

Is not the Minister aware that almost every school now built is overcrowded at the very beginning and that the classes are oversize? Will she direct her attention to that?

Yes, Sir, and I am glad to say that there has been a gradual increase in school building thus providing many more places than hitherto.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I wish to give notice that I shall raise the matter, if I am successful in the ballot, on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Education whether she will request local education authorities to draw the attention of parents of children going abroad in organised school parties to their liability for medical expenses if the children are taken ill when abroad.

I very much doubt whether local education authorities need any advice from me on this matter, but I am consulting the Central Bureau of Educational Visits and Exchanges to see whether any additional information or advice can usefully be included in their handbooks.

While thanking the Minister for her answer, may I draw her attention to the fact that the parents of at least one child in my constituency were unaware that they might be involved in such an expense and that it cost them £40? As so many thousands of children go abroad, does not she think it advisable that parents should be made aware of this liability?

I know of the case to which the hon. Gentleman refers, of a child going abroad and being taken ill and the parents not being able to bear the cost. But, as I have said in my answer, I feel sure that local authorities will do their best to inform parents of the situation, and I am suggesting, or at least I am asking the Bureau, that this information be included in the handbooks.

asked the Minister of Education what steps she is taking to bring the Anglesey, Brecon, Caernarvon, Cardigan, Denbigh, Flint, Merioneth, Montgomery, Pembroke and Radnor county education authorities into line with the majority of education authorities who provide special facilities for the education of defective children.

It is not clear in what sense the hon. Member is using the expression "defective children," or, therefore, whether it is the responsibility of local education authorities to make provision for them. If, however, the hon. Member is interested in the provision made for any particular class or classes of handicapped children, other than ineducables, and will let me know, I will do my best to give him information.

Is the Minister aware that I am very surprised at her answer, in view of the fact that my Question is worded almost exactly on the lines of a reply she gave last week stating that these authorities were lagging behind in the provision of facilities for the education of defective children? Will she tell the House what she meant, because I mean the same thing?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman means the same thing as I meant, and it would have been better if he had referred in his Question to "handicapped" children. If the local education authority has only a small number of handicapped children in its area, it does not need to set up special schools in order to comply with the Education Acts. The authority may co-operate with other authorities in setting up schools, or send the children to schools provided by other authorities.

In view of the importance of this issue, I beg to give notice that I, too, shall raise this question on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Minister of Education what steps she is taking to get the school-building programme into line with the house-building programme, particularly in new estates in the suburbs of London.

I am doing all in my power to achieve this objective, both in the suburbs of London and elsewhere, by means of the careful allocation of sufficient building resources, by the encouragement of local consultation and co-ordination and by practical advice on the design and construction of new schools.

Is the Minister aware that there is much feeling about the time-lag between house building and school building, particularly in Hertfordshire in places such as Boreham Wood? Is she aware that it is the feeling of many people that she has been sacrificed on the altar of Moloch to her right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government?

I am glad to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman that I have in no way been sacrificed; I have never been on an altar; I am trying to build the schools as quickly as possible.

asked the Minister of Education what control her Department exerts over the cost and price of new type school buildings erected by large firms of contractors, in order that the country may secure full value for money spent up to the limits per place fixed by her Department.

My Department applies the same limit of net cost to every school of a given size and type. Each new system of construction used for school building is therefore indirectly in competition with the others and with various traditional methods of construction. Where the Ministry's Development Group has been associated with manufacturers and local education authorities in the development of a new system, the design of each element of the building has been controlled by means of the technique of cost planning. The purpose of this procedure is described in Building Bulletin No. 4, of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy; it is to ensure that the building as a whole and each of its constituent elements represents good value for money.

As the non-traditional school building is of supreme importance today, and as the building of many of the non-traditional types of school building is almost a monopoly or is done by a single firm, and as the local education authorities can no longer protect themselves by competitive tendering, will the Minister agree that it is important that she should see that we get value for money within the bounds she has mentioned?

I agree that it is important. As I have said, there has been consultation between the Ministry's Development Group and the local authorities, and I must remind the hon. Gentleman that there are different types of these new building constructions, one competing against the other.

asked the Minister of Education whether she is aware of the disquiet arising from her policy of reducing the number of hours worked by the cooking and serving staff in the school meals service; and if she will reconsider this matter.

Each local education authority is responsible for the staffing arrangements in its school meals service. I expect authorities to keep their arrangements under review to ensure that staffing costs are not more than reasonable having regard to the demand for school dinners, but the particular method of making the adjustments found to be necessary from time to time is a matter for decision by each authority.

Will the Minister bear in mind that there is great concern about this in my constituency where it is felt that if there is any further reduction in the hours worked, the quality of the meals will inevitably suffer?

Yes, Sir, but no doubt the hon. Gentleman will take it up with his local authority. It is the local authority which has the responsibility, but I know he will agree that what we want is a sufficient number—not more than sufficient, nor less.

asked the Minister of Education what response she has received to her recent circular to local education authorities outlining the steps to be taken to avoid the risk of food poisoning in school canteens.

This circular asked local authorities to review their existing arrangements to prevent food poisoning, but did not require them to report to me on the action taken. I am sure that I can rely on them to take any action they consider necessary.

Will the Minister agree that one method of securing that is by seeing that there is no false economy in the number of hours worked by the cooking staff?

I agree that there should be no false economy, but there should be economy.

May I ask if there have been fewer of these unfortunate epidemics lately?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question on the Order Paper stating certain years, so as to define what he means by "the past."

Can the Minister say whether there was any advice in the circular, particularly with reference to not preparing a meat concoction the night before it is to be eaten?

Yes, Sir, that was included.

asked the Minister of Education whether she will require the Burnham Committee to reconsider their recent award on teachers' salaries in view of the proposals to increase the superannuation contribution of teachers.

The Burnham Committee can, at any time that they think fit, submit to me new recommendations for the salaries to be paid to teachers.

Is the Minister aware that her previous statement that the negotiators of the recent Burnham Award were aware of her proposal to increase superannuation contributions has been challenged by the bodies concerned, and, in view of that fact, is she not now aware that her proposal is tantamount to a reduction in the salary; and if she cannot withdraw her Bill and bow to the public storm, will she add the amount to the salary award so as to make things level?

As the hon. Member knows, it is not my responsibility to add to the salary awards. I am sure that if the negotiators take it up in the Burnham Committee, and if either side feels that teachers' salaries should be further considered with a view to submitting new recommendations to me, I have no doubt that steps will be taken to call the Committee together.

Will the right hon. Lady say what steps she will take to re-open negotiations with the Burnham Technical Committee to end the deadlock?

I am not taking any steps. I am hoping that, the negotiations having been broken down, they will begin again and reach some satisfactory solution.

Will my right hon. Friend say whether, in fact, she has any power to require the Burnham Committee to do anything?

I am not absolutely sure exactly what powers I can bring to bear to deal with the Burnham Committee, but if my hon. and gallant Friend would like to know, perhaps he will put a Question down.

But the right hon. Lady will not deny that she can invite them to deal with this question?

I did not interpret the word "require" as meaning "invite."

asked the Minister of Education if her attention has been drawn to the dissatisfaction that her new regulations have created in the County of Durham, where the imposition of a three-mile limit in substitution of the two-mile limit for children's transport, is to be introduced; and what is the estimated saving to her Department as a result of such action.