asked the Minister of Health how many children in England and Wales were, at the latest date for which statistics are available. awaiting specialist orthodontic treatment under the National Health Service; what is the approximate proportion of these needing treatment for functional defects; and to what extent the waiting lists have increased in recent years.

I reget that this information is not available.

asked the Minister of Health how many orthodontic specialists are available, full or part-time, for the treatment of children in England and Wales under the National Health Service; and to what extent the number has declined in recent years.

The number of consultants and senior hospital dental officers employed exclusively as orthodontists is 37, compared with 39 on 31st December, 1953; but an appreciable amount of specialist orthodontic work in hospitals is done by other dental consultants and senior hospital dental officers.

In view of the fact that the impression seems to be current that the waiting lists are quite considerable and are increasing, can my right hon. Friend say whether the shortage of orthodontic specialists is due to absolute shortage or to low rates of remuneration, and, if the latter, does he not think that a small amount of money invested in this service now might save a great deal of expenditure on the general dental service later?

Some of these points will probably be covered by the Committee whose appointment I recently announced. There is a good deal of orthodontic work done under the general dental service, and I think that, apart from these figures, one-third of all dental practitioners do at least some work in the orthodontic field.

asked the Minister of Health what special capital provision he expects to make during the coming year for hospital construction in the new towns.

I hope that it will be possible to make a start during the year on the preliminary stages of a new hospital for Welwyn and Hatfield which is to be financed from funds reserved centrally for major projects.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is really merely scratching the surface of the problem and that the new towns are now providing houses, shops, factories, schools and even cinemas, and that the one thing which is not being provided is a hospital service? Would not a special allocation be appropriate for the new towns and these other new communities which have to have new hospital provision?

In general, I am against special allocations and I have made an exception only in the mental field. I take into consideration the particular needs of the regional board in which the hon. Member is concerned in making my allocations, but new hospitals represent such a vast project that they must clearly be financed centrally. Therefore, a special allocation is not appropriate.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there are two new towns in the North-East which need attention?

So I am told.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consult the Minister of Housing and Local Government with a view to arranging that capital for new hospital construction in the new towns shall be provided by the development corporations.

Neither my right hon. Friend nor I consider it appropriate that development corporations should provide capital for this purpose any more than for other services which are the responsibility of other statutory authorities.

But is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this House is in process of voting £100 million for the new towns, which is roughly 10 times the amount he has available for the whole capital development of the hospital services for the next 12 months? In those circumstances, does not the Minister think that this matter is at any rate worth looking at again?

That is quite right, but the money, if voted, is not intended for that particular purpose. I think that the solution would be for me to allocate, through the regional boards, what I consider a fair proportion of the amount of money which I can obtain from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Is it certain that that grant of aid to the new towns necessarily excludes any health development at all? Surely that is not so?

I should have thought that it excluded hospital development, which clearly is an Exchequer matter, but, if the hon. Member wishes, I will look at the matter again.

Is the Minister confident that in that way he will be able to provide for the hospital needs of the new towns without detriment to capital improvements in other regions?

The new towns are a special problem within the much wider problem, and I must give special attention to them.

asked the Minister of Health why he refused to accept a proposal for building a 44-bed unit at Tone Vale Hospital, Norton Fitzwarren, although, compared with its statutory accommodation, the hospital is overcrowded to the extent of 40·1 per cent. in the male, and 57·3 per cent. in the female, wards.

This scheme has not yet proceeded because it was not included in the regional hospital board's list of first priority schemes to be met out of the "mental million." I should add that the hon. Member's figures of overcrowding are inaccurate.

Is the Minister aware that the figures for overcrowding which I quoted were supplied by the hospital and, in any case, in many of the wards it is difficult to walk between the beds? Although it is only 50 years old and comparatively modern, there is a feeling of considerable frustration that the hospital cannot really be carried on properly. Will the right hon. Gentleman bear this in mind?

As the hon. Member knows, this was not one of the four major plans that the board put forward to me and which has been accepted for provision out of the "mental million." I understand that it comes high in the thoughts of the board in what we might call the second division, but the board must decide what comes in front of it.

asked the Minister of Health how many beds for non-tuberculous thoracic surgery, male and female, pro rata of population, are available in the North-West Region compared with neighbouring regions and the Southern Regions; and how many persons are awaiting major surgical treatment.

As the answer consists of a table of statistics, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can the Minister say how the waiting times compare and what has been done to reduce them in the North-West Region?

So far as the Manchester region is concerned, in which no doubt the hon. Member is particularly interested, the percentage of beds is the lowest on the population basis of any of those quoted. On the other hand, its waiting list is surprisingly good in comparison with the other regions with which comparison is drawn.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the Royal Western Counties Hospital Group, with more than 1,800 patients, has spent only £8,000 on new capital works since 1948; and if, in the next financial year, he will reverse his recent decision and provide £50,000 from the special allocation for a 54-bed unit, at the Langdon extension.

Can the Minister say whether the difficulty in the Manchester region is due to buildings or staff?

To a certain extent, it is due to both. In the Manchester region, it is mainly buildings.

My information is that, since 1948, £14,246 has been spent on capital works at this hospital. In addition, a scheme for the reorganisation of the engineering services at Langdon extension will involve expenditure of about £14,000 this year and £30,500 next year. The scheme for a ward unit has been postponed because other schemes regarded by the regional board as more urgent have taken up the capital available for the purpose.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Hospital Group with 1,800 patients is spread over some 18 buildings, many of them very old; that it is doing wonderful work but is gravely handicapped through shortage of capital, and that in one case people are housed in a decrepit building part of which is used as a mortuary? Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this matter needs further consideration?

I do not dissent from what has been said, and I will bear it in mind.

Can my hon. Friend say whether it is a proposal of the Boundary Commission to name a constituency "Taunton with Shoreditch and Finsbury?"

Will the Minister bear in mind that I, in common with all other hon. Members of this House, have an interest in people who need others to speak up for them?

I should be very glad to consider these problems of the West Country in conjunction with the Members of Parliament concerned.

Hear, hear. Rub it in.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that expenses of the Bridgwater, Minehead and Budleigh Hospital Group have, owing to increased costs, only been held within the the estimate by the restriction of expenditure on maintenance of buildings; and if, in the interests of economy, he will provide funds for essential work.

I am aware that, in order to help keep expenditure within its approved estimates, this group is spending less this year on maintenance of buildings than in previous years, but I have no evidence that essential works are not being carried out.

Will the Minister say whether he would regard normal maintenance as essential work, and is he aware that this is only one of scores of examples of having to defer important work through lack of funds? In making up his Estimates for next year. will the Minister bear this in mind so that sufficient can be provided for a full service?

This is one of the main matters now under discussion between myself and the Chancellor. I am very conscious of this.

Arising out of a previous answer on the same subject, may I ask whether, when the Minister said that he would be pleased to discuss these matters with the hon. Members concerned, he was intending to suggest that there were any hon. Members who were not concerned?

I meant what I said.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in mental hospitals the daily diet allowance per patient is 2s. 5d., and in general hospitals 3s. 5d.; that, owing to increased costs, it is impossible to provide an adequate balanced diet within this limit; and if he will frame his Estimates for next year on a basis more in keeping with the current cost of food.

I will certainly take into account the effect of food prices in considering the estimates for the hospital service for next year, but no daily diet allowance per patient is fixed centrally, although in some instances a daily rate has been indicated by the regional board to help to secure that expenditure as a whole does not exceed their allocation.

Can the Minister say whether the regional boards have, or have not, to seek his approval for the cost of diet per patient? Are the boards free agents in the matter of the amount of money spent on the diet of the patients?

Yes, they are. I am aware of the letter from the South-West Regional Board, which I think the hon. Member has in mind, but I indicated neither approval nor disapproval.

asked the Minister of Health (1) for what purpose the Langstone Sanatorium, Portsmouth, was used between 1st January, 1953, and November, 1953;

The last use as a sanatorium was in June, 1950, and it was subsequently used for storage until August, 1953. Although the hospital management committee reported the property as surplus to their requirements at the end of 1953, it was not possible to offer it to Portsmouth Corporation until possible alternative uses for hospital purposes had been considered by the regional hospital board.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Ministry of Health did not use this hospital for any useful purpose after 1950, that it might well have been handed back to Portsmouth and that it would have saved Portsmouth a lot of money in that case?

I am afraid that I cannot quite agree with my hon. and gallant Friend. It may have taken a considerable time to dispose of this, but the final decision was well outside the time of the special concession that had been agreed to run for five years from 1948. In the circumstances, I regret that I cannot change my mind.

In view of what seems to have been a rather unnecessary delay, will my right hon. Friend now offer the hospital to Portsmouth at the same price at which it could have been offered if there had not been a delay?

No, Sir.

When the Minister says that he cannot quite agree with his hon. and gallant Friend, does he mean that he thoroughly disagrees with him? Would not it be better to say that?

asked the Minister of Health whether he will increase the capital allocation for the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board in the next financial year.

asked the Minister of Health if he will now increase the amount allocated to the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board for hospital capital projects.

As I informed the hon. Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, East (Mr. Blenkinsop) on 6th December, I am not in a position to do this for 1955–56.

Is the Minister aware that this is a matter which really does require some special consideration, and is he prepared to review the matter?

I am reviewing it tomorrow morning, when I meet a deputation from the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how much the actual allocation falls short of the estimate?

No, not without notice.

Is the Minister also considering any representations made from the Newcastle teaching hospitals as well as from the Board?

Yes, at the same time.

asked the Minister of Health what the degree of overcrowding is in the mental and mental-deficiency hospital in the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board's area; and how this compares with the average throughout the country.

35·3 per cent. in the mental hospitals and 28·9 per cent. in the mental-deficiency hospitals of the region at the end of 1953. The comparable national averages were 15·7 per cent. and 12·4 per cent.

Will the Minister recognise, on the basis of the figures that he has now submitted, that there is an urgent need for capital grant to enable this needful social service to be provided for the people concerned?

Yes, I agree at once. Indeed, it is just because of that that the Newcastle Region has been given rather more than twice the allocation out of the "mental million" compared with what it would have received on an ordinary basis of population proportion. I am most conscious of the need in the Newcastle area.

Can the right hon. Gentleman hazard any estimate of what improvement in this percentage might be effected by the new building which is authorised?

There is a great deal of building, especially for mental deficiency work, in what we can call the "pipeline" at the moment, but I do not think that one could make an estimate of the effect that would have on percentage overcrowding, because it depends, for one thing, on the rate at which patients are cured.

asked the Minister of Health the number and total value of hospital capital projects costing over £100,000 started in the years 1953–54 and 1954–55, and proposed to be started in 1955–56; and which of these projects are located in the Newcastle Regional Board area.

In 1953–54 four such projects were started, with an estimated total value of £1½ million. In the current year 13 have been started so far, with an estimated total value of £2·8 million. I so far know of 12 further projects, estimated to cost £2·2 million, which are likely to start between now and the end of 1955–56, but programmes for 1955–56 are not yet available and these may include other projects of this order to be started in that year. Two of the 29 projects mentioned, estimated to cost a little over £540,000, are in the Newcastle region.

Is the Minister aware that there is a very strong feeling in the North-East Region, especially on Tyneside, that that area has been considerably neglected in the past? While I know some of the difficulties involved, may I ask if the right hon. Gentleman will do his best to ensure not only that urgently needed capital projects are proceeded with, but that there is sufficient revenue expenditure to see that they get going?

So far as Newcastle is concerned, I think that what matters is not the share in any particular sector, but the total share of the capital allocation. As I have said before in this House, Newcastle's share, while it may be inadequate for the need, is, in proportion, quite high when compared with other regions in the country.

Will the Minister give special consideration to proposals for the improvement of heating in hospitals, because in the long run that will be an economy?

Yes, I am aware of that. We have a number of schemes in connection with the amalgamation of boilers, which we are trying to get on with as soon as we can.

asked the Minister of Health whether the instruction issued by the regional hospital boards to hospital management committees, that the recruitment of nursing staff up to approved establishment can be made only on the condition that the salaries of any additional staff can be met out of the approved estimates was made with his approval.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that many hospitals are not able to recruit nursing staff that are needed to bring numbers up to approved establishment because of lack of finance; and what action he proposes to take to remedy this.

While the allocations made to hospital boards, within the sums voted by Parliament have generally been sufficient not only for the maintenance of existing services and staffing standards but also for some improvements and developments—which include increases in staff—I have, from the outset made it clear that the cost of these must be met within the allocations made. I am constantly encouraging hospital authorities to achieve the maximum economy in running their services in order to release further resources for improvements and developments.

What earthly use is it to hold recruiting campaigns in the various regions—which I understand arc reasonably successful—if hospital management committees find it impossible to meet the cost of additional staff? They are already hard pressed to keep their expenditure within the estimates, and does not this mean that there will be no recruitment of staff?

No, it does not. As a matter of fact, some of the recruitment drives have, perhaps, not been quite as successful as the supplementary question may have indicated, though both I and my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Labour are always looking for such recruits. But it is a general principle, and always has been in the budgeting of all Departments, that every one must try to keep within their allocation and use it for the improvements which they can obtain.

Does that reply mean that the Minister is prepared to look again at individual cases where special development has been long planned—and indeed where capital expenditure may have been incurred—but which cannot be put into full operation because nurses, although available, cannot be paid?

I have consistently told regional boards, who equally consistently have told hospital management committees, that they must stay within their allocations. But I am always prepared to consider any special case if an hon. Member wishes to put one forward.

Does that mean that when a regional hospital board sends in its budget, it is expected to take account of the maximum number of staff it may be permitted to have?

No, Sir, not necessarily. A board submits its demands to me on the basis of the numbers it thinks it can reasonably expect to recruit within the coming year.

Whatever may be happening elsewhere, can the Minister assure us that, so far as mental health is concerned, the number of nurses will not have to be limited by the amount of finance available?

That goes too wide. It is right to say that the recruitment of mental health staff is a special problem.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the inadequate hospital facilities in Goole; and what proposals he has to improve them.

I understand that the regional hospital board has recently reviewed the hospital services in this and other areas. It has concluded that, with the completion of capital works at West-field Hospital early next year and projects which it hopes to include in its capital programme in the next two years at Longwood, Bartholomew and St. John's Hospitals, the main deficiencies, as compared with other areas, will have been made good.

Does the Minister appreciate that many would-be patients in Goole have at present to travel to Leeds, which is a journey of two hours by bus, and that there are many complaints also about the long waiting list at Goole?

I will examine that, but the answer I have just given, which is based on information from my regional board, would seem to indicate that Goole is doing reasonably well in comparison with most areas covered by that regional board.

asked the Minister of Health what results he has obtained from his circular to hospital authorities on the subject of reducing waiting-time in outpatients departments; and whether he will make a statement.

I am asking for a progress report and hope to be able to make some assessment of results early in the New Year.

Will the Minister publish that progress report when he receives it?

I will certainly consider how best I can convey the information to the House. I know that many hon. Members are particularly interested in this matter.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent he is satisfied that hospitals have been able to carry out essential repair and maintenance works on their buildings during the current year; and what further provision he hopes to make.

I am anxious that hospital buildings should be properly maintained, but I am not in a position to make a comprehensive statement about the current maintenance standard. It is not the practice to make special allocations for this purpose.

Is the Minister aware that for some years now hospitals have been repeatedly cutting down on this vital work, and that while it may be possible to do that as an emergency measure for one or two years, if it is continued it piles up much larger bills for the future? Will he give some instruction or advice to hospital boards, together with some extra cash?

I am not sure that the position is quite so bad as that. This year, on the recently revised estimates, we are spending about £9 million, which is less than the year before but substantially higher than the average for the previous years. I do not think the money is enough, but I think that we tend to exaggerate the amount of the reduction which there has been.

Is the Minister aware that one receives continuous complaints from hospitals all over the country on this issue? It is becoming a very pressing matter, which I do not think that one can exaggerate.

I am aware of that but, as I said in answer to an earlier Question, it is one of the particular matters which I am discussing with the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Minister of Health what proportion of the total capital expenditure by hospital authorities in the current financial year he estimates will be met from non-Exchequer funds.

About 7 per cent.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether that percentage has tended to rise in recent years?

It is too early to say yet, because it has hardly been running for a full year. I should think that it will tend to rise, because some of the big schemes involved clearly take some time to prepare.

asked the Minister of Health what proportion of the total capital expenditure by hospital authorities in the current, and the coming, financial year, respectively, he expects to be devoted to projects directly concerned with mental health and mental deficiency.

I expect that the figure for the current financial year will be about 28 per cent. I have not yet received hospital board programmes for next year, but at least 20 per cent, of the total sum expected to be available is likely to be spent on centrally financed works at mental and mental deficiency hospitals, and the overall percentage therefore is likely to be higher than this year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this proportion is still inadequate, in view of the fact that over 40 per cent. of the total number of hospital beds are devoted to mental and mentally deficient patients? Will he continue to use his best endeavours to step up this percentage?

Yes, but if the hon. Member will study my answer he will find that the percentage expected next year is about 36 per cent., and if one takes into account the fact that many special departments are not required in mental hospitals it would appear that this bears a very good relationship to the provision of beds under the Service.

Would not the Minister agree that it is perhaps unwise to concentrate entirely upon a percentage, because quite a large percentage of a small sum is still a small sum?

asked the Minister of Health how the capital allocation to hospital authorities in the current financial year compares, allowing for changes in costs in the meantime, with the expenditure on hospital building in the year 1938 or any other convenient year before the last war.

I estimate that the average capital expenditure on hospitals in England and Wales in the three financial years immediately before the last war was about three times the allocation for the current year.

In view of the considerable increase in population since then, together with the heavy war damage and the creation of new towns which at present have no hospital facilities, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the nation really cannot be satisfied with the present position?

I have made great use of these figures over a long period. What they show—and it is no credit to any of us—is that in the 1930s we were doing three times as much hospital building as either Government has been able to achieve since the National Health Service came into operation.

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to consult the Minister of Education to see if he can ascertain the methods adopted by that Minister in order to get a reversal of the Government's policy on that subject?

Is the Minister aware that this is a very serious problem, because we are merely holding on to what we have, rather than making any progress, as a result of not being given the money for capital expenditure? Will the Minister take up this very serious matter with his right hon. Friend?

asked the Minister of Health what action is being taken by his Department to cut down the time lag now existing between schemes of capital expenditure on new hospitals being approved and the actual starting of these new projects.

I am not sure what the hon. Member has in mind. I know of no undue delays between authorisation and starting of hospital capital projects.

Is not the Minister aware that, during the period 1948–53, the Sheffield Regional Hospital Board underspent its allocation by over £700,000—

It ought to be shot.

—and that one of the main reasons is that it has been waiting for the signal from the Minister to start hospital projects which have been approved for many years and is now waiting for an extra financial allocation in order to be able to start them?

That is a rather different point. That arose before authorisation. Now that there is no starting date control, there is nothing at all to stop a scheme going ahead once it has been authorised.

After a scheme has been worked out by the management committee, approved by the regional board and vetted by the officials of the Ministry of Health, has it then to be vetted once more by Treasury officials?

It depends on the size of the scheme.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that many hospitals have been compelled to allocate funds for capital expenditure on plant and buildings, other than those received from the Exchequer; and what steps he proposes to take to relieve hospitals of this burden.

I do not regard the amount of capital expenditure from hospital non-Exchequer funds as disproportionate to the capital expenditure from the Exchequer.

Does not the Minister agree that this bears very grievously on those hospitals which particularly wish to make progress and which happen to be fortunate enough to have some funds? The type of fund they are now receiving, which ought to come from the Exchequer, is not, of course, recoverable, and cannot be used over and over again.

The fact that all hospitals have not got substantial non-Exchequer funds is surely no reason for stopping those which have from using them for the benefit of their patients.

rose—

On a point of order. While admitting that the hon. Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, East (Mr. Blenkinsop) may have special claims on health Questions, will you recall, Mr. Speaker, that he already has had 11 questions which represent one-quarter of the normal amount allowed to this House at Question time?

I thought that the hon. Gentleman was going to ask a supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Health if he will increase the amount allocated to the North-West Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board for hospital building, in view of the need to meet the demands of increasing populations at Slough and elsewhere.

I am aware of the problems facing this Board and bear them in mind when fixing the region's share of the capital programme.

I do not ask for a disproportionate amount for this Board, or for Slough, but will the Minister bear in mind that 17,000 people are coming to Slough from the London area, and that the hospitals there are just about fully used up—89 per cent. of the beds are permanently employed. Will he therefore give special consideration to the problem, with a view to providing for this largely incoming population?

I appreciate the needs of Slough, and so do the Board. It put Slough third on its list, so the hon. Member will get place money, and as the first name on this Regional Hospital Board's list is the Welwyn-Hatfield Hospital—which we hope to see started next year—the hon. Member is coming fairly near the top.

Will my right hon. Friend take into account the requirement of Bracknell when he is considering the needs of Slough?

Yes, Sir. know the needs of Bracknell.

How many runners are there in this race?

Far too many.

asked the Minister of Health if he will increase the amount allocated to the Sheffield Regional Hospital Board in view of the need for meeting the demands of the Barnsley Hospital Management Committee who desire to effect immediate improvements.

No, Sir. I am aware of the need here and so, I am sure, is the Board.

Is the Minister aware of the difficult conditions confronting the Barnsley Hospital Management Committee? I have already sent him details of these conditions, and I have had consultations with his Parliamentary Secretary, who agrees with my statement that they are below standard. The Sheffield Regional Hospital Board has already contacted the Finance Committee of the Barnsley Hospital Management Committee about the percentage, which is a hopeful sign. The Barnsley Hospital Management Committee is dependent upon an extra allocation from the Minister as well as an extra allocation from the Sheffield Regional Hospital Board.

If I may coin a phrase—questions of priority are for the regional hospital boards.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the need at the West Hill Hospital, Dartford, for the provision of a new out-patients department at the earliest possible moment what consideration has been given to the matter and if he will make sufficient funds available to enable work to commence at an early date.

The regional hospital board has not, so far, been able to include it within its current programme, and I am not in a position to increase the capital allocation to enable it to do so.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that he is the nigger in the woodpile here, because last year there were 18,000 more attendances at the outpatients department than there were in 1951, and that the present premises are totally inadequate for that number? Does he realise that, with a little more provision, people would be able to get proper treatment and stay in their own homes, instead of queueing up for hospital beds, which are more costly?

The hon. Gentleman will know that the priority at the West Hill Hospital is not for the out-patients department but for the operating theatre. I understand that that particular scheme is moving towards completion.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the need for a new out-patients department at the Corbett Hospital, Stourbridge; and whether he will make a sufficient capital allocation to the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board to enable work to be started on this scheme early in 1955–56.

The answer to the first part of the Question is, "Yes." As regards the second part, I leave the choice of schemes within their allocation to the board.

Would the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to make an exception in this case? Is he aware that this is a very pressing need indeed, which does not concern only Stourbridge but the whole of that part of the West Midlands, and that it is really an outrage that it should be left so long?

I am sorry to seem so obstinate, but I do not make this choice. I do know the need of the hospital, and I should like to see some agreed scheme, though I do not myself know the size, started soon.

asked the Minister of Health the number of hospitals to be built in 1955; and what areas are designated for new hospitals in the next three years.

I hope it will be possible to make a start before the end of the next financial year on a new hospital for Welwyn and Hatfield; and work on the new mental deficiency hospital near Southport is continuing. I cannot say what new hospitals will be started in the three years after 1955 until I know what sums will be available for hospital capital development generally in that period.

Is not the Minister aware that, even though he does not know what he will be able to do in the next three years, if he does not improve on the reply he has just given, this country will be left for a very long time with hospitals which will be falling into decay and which ought to be pulled down?

No one in this House is more anxious to see new hospitals built than I am.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent the intake of mental-illness patients in the Durham county area has gone up within the last two years; and how such figures compare with the rest of the country for the same period.

Admissions to Cherry Knowle and Winterton hospitals in 1953 exceeded those in 1951 by about 15 per cent. and 42 per cent., respectively. The comparable figures for all mental hospitals was 14 per cent.

Is the Minister satisfied that we in Durham are well accommodated for receiving mental patients, particularly when, as the Minister is aware, the mental hospitals at Cherry Knowle and Winterton are seriously overcrowded? Is he satisfied with what is being given to us in order to increase the accommodation, which we desire to do?

I am not satisfied, and I have given details of what is being done in Durham in this House and to the hon. Member on a number of occasions.

asked the Minister of Health what extensions to existing hospitals have been agreed upon in Durham county for the year 1955; if his Department will proceed with the building of a new county hospital in Durham; and when such a scheme will be commenced.

I have not yet received the regional hospital board's programme of new capital works for 1955–56, but I can say that nine schemes of improvement or extension already in progress will be continued next year. With regard to the second and third parts of the Question, I will bear these claims in mind, but I have no statement to make.

Is the Minister aware that this project for a new county hospital in Durham has been earmarked for a long time; yet we still seem to be right back where we were and no one seems to take the least notice of the demand in the county for the provision of a new county hospital? Will he do what he can to further this scheme?

In principle, it has been agreed to provide new hospitals at Peterlee and Newton Aycliffe, but there are many other places in that regional board area, particularly West Cumberland, which also have very high claims indeed.

Is the Minister aware of the fact that a new hospital for Swindon has been agreed in principle and that all the preliminaries have been prepared for years? Is the Minister forcing on the Government the need to have a proper system of priorities in the allocations for new hospitals?

In Swindon, there is a very considerable need, but it is not in Durham.

asked the Minister of Health the capital allocation for Leeds region in the coming financial year; and how this compares with the current year.

The basic allocation in each year is £413,000. In addition, the board have had a supplementary allocation this year of £40,000 for works to save running costs; and some £97,000 is likely to be spent this year, and £90,000 next year, on schemes financed from central funds.

Is the Minister aware that this amount is totally inadequate for the needs of the area, particularly in regard to mental hospitals? Can he give us some indication of the Government's intentions in this respect? Is he aware that recently the Leeds City Council had a cut in their housing programme from 3,000 to roughly 2,000, and that one reason given was that more was to be spent on schools and hospitals? Do I understand that now we are to get neither houses nor hospitals?

The housing programme is not a matter for me. Perhaps the hon. Lady would like to draw my attention to the statement to which she has referred, as I have never heard of it.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will increase the allocation to the Leeds Regional Hospital Board so as to enable the hospital facilities under the Pontefract and Castleford Management Committee, especially in Castleford, to be extended, as requested by the hon. Member for Pontefract and the Castleford Urban District Council.

No, sir, regional board's ordinary projects are not nominated by me.

Is the Minister aware that, in the area covered by this Management Commitee, there is already a shortage of over 200 beds, and that unless the regional hospital board receive an increased allocation, it looks to me as if in a number of areas there will be no further development of hospitals?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, Pontefract is in a deficient area, but if I make an extra allocation to the board, it does not follow that the board will give it to Pontefract.

asked the Minister of Health the total sum asked for in the 1955–56 Estimates by the Liverpool Regional Hospital Board and the Liverpool United Hospitals, respectively, for capital expenditure schemes; and the amount to be allowed in each case by his Department.

Capital programmes for 1955–56 have not yet been received from either Board, but the amounts allocated for that year are: United Hospitals, £68,000; Regional Hospital Board £283,000. Additional sums will be made available as required to enable work to be continued on three schemes now in progress which are being financed centrally.

Is the Minister telling us that there have been no consultations between the Regional Hospital Board and the board of governors with reference to capital expenditure? Is it not a fact that the Board has been told how much it is to be allowed to spend, and that, therefore, it is not a question of what estimates should be submitted of work requiring to be done?

For some time now, it has been the custom in the summer of each year to notify regional boards, subject to the approval of Parliament, which, of course, has not by then been given, the amounts which it is intended should be spent in the next financial year, and it is for them to say how the priorities shall be allocated within that amount.

Is it not a fact that the position now is that boards are not asked to submit estimates but are told what they are going to get, and that they then have to decide what they are to do with the money? Is not this a very silly way of dealing with the problem? Would it not be wiser for a statement to be made about an alteration in policy before Questions of this sort have to be asked?

I have just explained that there has been no alteration in policy at all.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the distress being caused to parents who are compelled, in the Liverpool area, to retain at home mentally-defective children who need hospital care; and what action is being taken to provide the accommodation necessary, as a matter of urgency.

I am well aware of this problem, which causes me grave concern. The building of a new mental deficiency hospital at Greaves Hall, Southport, is being financed from central funds and will provide 1,000 beds, including 300 for children of which 100 are expected to be ready by December, 1956. Schemes in the Manchester region financed from the "mental million," which will to some extent help this area, are expected to produce accommodation for 40 mentally deficient adolescent boys by next April and for 40 mentally deficient children in 1956.

Does not the Minister realise that he is talking about the Manchester Regional Hospital Board and about the immediate vacancies in April, whereas this problem is in Liverpool, and is a very serious one indeed. While realising that a scheme is going to be started, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is now that something needs to be done in order to relieve these parents of the very difficult problem which they have to face? Will the Minister please say whether it is possible to alter the arrangements whereby a child can be sent to a short-stay home for up to eight weeks, but under which, if it is over eight weeks, the regional hospital board then refuses to take any further financial responsibility and places that cost upon the local authority?

It is precisely because I know of the special need concerning mental cases in the Liverpool area that the first hospital being built in this country since before the war is for mental patients in that region. What happens in the Manchester region is very relevant indeed, because for mental and mental deficiency problems the Liverpool and Manchester authorities pool their resources.

They do not get the vacancies.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make provision in his 1955–56 building programme for the new hospital unit at Warley, Halifax, about which the hon. Member for Halifax has had correspondence with him.

This would probably not be a centrally financed scheme and it depends therefore on selection by the board.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the man who left this estate to the Halifax Infirmary also left £50,000 for hospital purposes? Could not the Minister consider the release of that sum, to which the people of Halifax think that they have a moral if not a legal right? Does the right hon. Gentleman think it equitable that towns which before the passing of the National Health Act made more adequate provision out of their own resources for hospital purposes should now be penalised in favour of those which were more parsimonious in their expenditure?

On the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary, which deals with a question which arises all over the country, it would clearly be impossible to do what he suggests, because these sums are vested free of trust in the Minister and are used for general hospital purposes. With regard to the second part of his supplementary, in deciding the amount of building that one is going to do, one clearly has to take particularly into account the needs of those towns and cities which were neglected before the war.

asked the Minister of Health approximately how many nurses and student nurses in hospitals, respectively, have come from British Colonies, from India, Pakistan and Ceylon, from foreign countries and from Eire.

I regret that separate information on this is not available.

Is the Minister aware that from time to time figures have been produced in this House concerning the number of girls from the Colonies? In these circumstances, if such figures are obtainable, would it not be possible to obtain figures for this category of girls?

I will make more inquiries, but I am told that returns from hospitals do not distinguish An this way. Therefore, the only help I can give is with regard to girls from foreign countries—and not from the Commonwealth—who need a Ministry of Labour permit. I am told that 1,000 such permits were issued in the first six months of this year.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the total number of girls of all kinds from overseas who are serving the hospitals very well indeed at the present time?

I do not think that I could do that without a special return being made, and I do not think that would be justified.

asked the Minister of Health what steps have been taken to secure more male orderlies for service in physiotherapy departments of hospitals in order that they can assist the patients to have appropriate exercises without which the patients are involved in longer treatment than is necessary and thus delay others from having treatment.

It is for hospital boards or committees to decide whether to employ orderlies in their physical medicine or geriatric departments.

Has the Minister taken any steps to encourage the boards to find these orderlies who, if found, could certainly relieve a good deal of the pressure upon the more specialised treatments which patients are receiving and thus enable patients to go out much earlier?

I am aware of the position at Leytonstone, to which, think, the hon. Gentleman is referring, but it is essentially a matter for the management committees to decide whether they are prepared to take such action.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that a more generous allocation of capital expenditure to the West Midlands Hospital Regional Board would ensure considerable saving in the running costs of many of the hospitals in the region; and whether he will make a statement as to his intentions for the coming financial year.

I am aware that capital expenditure can often save running costs and have advised all boards to bear this in mind in determining priorities. A supplementary allocation of £60,000 was made to the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board this year for such schemes, but I do not anticipate that it will be possible to make a similar additional allocation in the coming year.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent the North Staffordshire Royal Infirmary and the City General Hospital in Stoke-on-Trent are short of nursing staff.

I shall have to make inquiries and will send the information to the hon. Member.