asked the Minister of Food whether he is yet in a position to issue regulations providing for charges to be made by a local authority for the inspection of meat; or, alternatively, whether he will allow local authorities to adopt by-laws in respect of private slaughterhouses.

I cannot at present add to the reply given to the hon. Member on 22nd November last.

Is this not a long time to decide what should be a rather simple matter? Regulations can be made now for public abattoirs, and it would seem to be a rather simple matter to allow local authorities to control the hours when slaughter should take place and the charges that can be made.

I sympathise with the hon. Member's concern, but I assure him that it is not quite as simple a matter as it looks. One of the factors that has a bearing on the situation is the number of slaughterhouses, on which I am awaiting the report of the committee which is at present dealing with this matter.

asked the Minister of Food if he is aware that the price of 160s. per live cwt. now being paid by butchers for grade A meat compares with a retail price range of from 3s. 6d. to 5s. 6d. per lb. for best quality meat; and if he will reimpose price control in order to reduce these prices

The present high level of prices for cattle in the auction markets and for home-killed meat in the shops is due, in the main, to the normal seasonal fall in production. To reimpose price control without rationing would merely drive the better quality meat under the counter.

Is the Minister aware that the Question refers not only to the high prices of home-killed meat but to the disparity between the wholesale and the retail prices? Is he further aware that only a minority of housewives can now buy a decent bit of meat? Will he, if he does not believe in our methods, do something serious by his own methods to start bringing prices down?

I believe that the best way of ensuring that prices are reasonable is competition supported by discriminating buying. In this case I think that the consumer sometimes under-estimates the amount of influence which he or she can exert on retail prices. I would point out to the hon. Gentleman that there are less popular cuts of home-killed meat avail able at considerably lower prices, and plenty of——

Scraggy ends for the workers.

A few years ago people had to accept scraggy ends. Today the demand generally centers on better-quality meat, and the scraggy ends are extremely difficult, if not impossible, to dispose of. I would say finally that there is plenty of imported meat available at considerably lower prices.

asked the Minister of Food what arrangements are being made regarding the importation of meat from the Argentine during the coming year

Beef and pork will continue to be shipped on Government account until the bulk-purchase quantities are completed. Thereafter all meat will be imported on private account.

Will not the result of these arrangements, both in the short term and in the long term, be a further aggravation of the rise in the cost of living?

I certainly hope not.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give some assurance to the House on this matter? Has he not considered whether prices are likely to rise when trade is restored to free competition? Has he any information on the point?

Yes, Sir. Our view is that the purchase of meat through private channels is likely, in the long term, to be of advantage to the country, and it will provide meat of better quality and better value than if it were done under Government control.

Can my right hon. Friend give a firm assurance that when these arrangements come into effect, even should there be an increase it; will not be anything like the increase of 60 per cent. in food prices which occurred under the Socialist Government?

asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware that the price of tea has risen since decontrol; that many old people now cannot afford to buy an adequate amount; and, as further price increases have just take place, if he will consider the imposition of price control.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the right hon. Member for Battersea, North (Mr. Jay),and the hon. Members for Sunder-land, North (Mr. Willey), Islington, East (Mr. E. Fletcher), Brixton (Lieut.-Colonel Lipton), and West Ham, North (Mr. Lewis) on 14th February.

While not having by me those answers—I expect they were allunsatisfactory—may I ask the Minister whether he has noticed how some shopkeepers are selling tea at reduced prices to old people because they cannot afford to buy it? Does the Minister approve of this? If not, is he prepared to do something to help the old people?

I am very glad to hear of every effort that shopkeepers make to sell these commodities at the lowest possible price. As regards the old people, my latest figures do not show any reduction in the consumption of tea by old-age pensioners. The hon. Lady will know the steps that the Government have recently taken to improve the lot of old-age pensioners.

While I congratulate the Minister on having come to the rescue of the Parliamentary Secretary, whose answers were wholly unsatisfactory, can the right hon. Gentleman now say what action he is going to take?

There is no action that I can take which would be effective at the present time. I am certainly not willing to take action unless I see a chance of it being effective.

If the right hon. Gentleman is not able to take action, will he make way for some other Minister who can take effective action?

The difference between hon. Members opposite and we on this side of the House is that we do not always believe that Government action is the best way of ensuring the best possible supply of food to this country so far as quality, quantity and price are concerned.

Is it not a fact that the average price of tea has risen since derationing from 3s. 6d. to 7s. 6d. per lb., and the average consumption for an old-age pensioner is slightly more than 2 oz. per week? Does it not, therefore, follow that the old-age pensioner is being called upon to pay 7d. per week per head more for tea, which is many, many times offset by the large increases in old-age pensions?

asked the Minister of Food whether he will take action by Government purchase to build up stocks of tea, in view of the shortage of supplies in relation to demand

No, Sir. To attempt to build up stocks by Government purchase would only force up the price.

But if the Minister really believes that competition brings down prices, why does he not go into competition with the tea buyers and bring down the price of tea by buying it?

I cannot think of any action which would force prices up farther than the Government going into the market as buyers.

Could the right hon. Gentleman tell us what he and his hon. Friends would have said of our methods of bulk purchase of tea if they had resulted in a rise in price comparable with this rise?

I would remind the right hon. Gentleman that the Government in which he was a Minister did away with the bulk purchase of tea in 1951.

asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the increasing retail price of tea, he will consult the representatives of the tea trade in order to introduce a scheme of voluntary control of tea prices.

asked the Minister of Food whether he will consult the tea trade in order to find an agreed method of reducing the retail price of tea to a reasonable level.

asked the Minister of Food if he will have discussions with the Tea Trade Committee about the supply and price of tea, in order to ensure an agreed scheme for the voluntary reduction of prices and the maintenance of adequate supplies.

asked the Minister of Food his plans for discussions with the tea trade to find an agreed basis of price stabilisation in order to prevent a recurrence of the rise in price.

I am in regular consultation with the tea trade. The dominant factor is the price of tea at the international auctions, and I am satisfied that the tea trade in this country is doing its best to keep the price to the consumer as low as possible.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the tea trade, contrary to what he has said, maintains that the supply is slightly in excess of demand at the present time? In view of this, does he not think that there is a clear case for Government intervention? Is it not shocking that, whereas the threatened price rise has been rescinded by the action of this side of the House, the Government have done nothing at all?

I cannot accept the conclusion of the hon. Gentleman. He seems to be saying simply, "Something must be done." [HON. MEMBERS: "Why not?"] I remember that Lord Melbourne once said that he usually found that when a Member of Parliament said that something must be done he was about to suggest something extremely stupid.

In view of the pledges which the party opposite gave at the last Elec- tion to bring the cost of living down, is there not a special obligation on the Minister now to take some action? Will he specifically give an assurance now that he will approach the representatives of the tea trade and ask them to introduce a system of voluntary price control, if he will not introduce compulsory control?

I believe that the nation is well satisfied with the direction in which things are going, and not dissatisfied with the progress which has been achieved. As to the last part of the question, I do not think that that action would be at all helpful and I do not believe that it would lead to effective result.

Is it not clear that something has been done, and that as a result of pressure from this side of the House the tea magnates have abated their rapacity, and for the time being have put their promised increase in cold storage? Why do not the Government take action and not go on saying that they are completely helpless in this matter?

I think that the hon. Member natters himself and his hon. Friends.

Is the Minister not aware that not only Members of Parliament but the whole nation think something should be done? Is he saying, in effect, that the Government are prepared to do nothing except consult the tea traders, and to take no action whatsoever to prevent a further rise in prices?

The Government would certainly not hesitate to take action if they could see action which would be appropriate on their part, and effective. The situation is that the present price of tea is due to the relatively strong demand as against the supply available. When that balance is corrected, the price will come down.

Is there not something "phoney" about all this? [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Would my right hon. Friend say how we can raise the standard of living of the backward countries, which we all want to do, including hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite, if we do not pay higher prices to the producers in those countries?

Since the right hon. Gentleman has placed the blame for this situation on the producers of tea, will he say what discussions he had with the Prime Minister of Ceylon and the Prime Minister of India when they were in this country recently?

The right hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. I did not lay the blame for present prices on the producers.

Nevertheless, will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he took advantage of the presence of those Prime Ministers in this country to discuss this vitally important matter with them?

The facts of the situation are quite clear.

Are the increased prices which the producers are getting being passed to the employees?

I am afraid that that is not my responsibility.

Are not these questions extremely useful—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—in that they build up an overwhelming case for the return of rationing, which millions of consumers would utterly repudiate?

asked the Minister of Food what reply he has sent to the telegram from the national President of the National Union of Small Shopkeepers concerning the refusal of the Government to hold an inquiry into the problem of tea prices and profits.

I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the reply.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the public are very mystified about this matter, except for the fact that they have to pay for these increases? Would he explain to the people how it is that when prices fall at the tea auctions prices do not come down in the shops? Why are the Government prepared to do everything to cover up these increases? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we have been told by the Prime Minister of Ceylon that Mincing Lane is to blame for the increases? Has he any comment to make?

I think that I have given a reply to this supplementary question about three times already. The present price depends on the price at the auctions, and that is a price which Her Majesty's Government are not in a position to control. As far as the remarks of the Prime Minister of Ceylon go, I think that if he and I got involved in a discussion on the proper margin for retail prices, both of us might well find ourselves in waters of great technical depth.

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that it remains a fact that the method used by the late Government of procuring tea by bulk purchase for many years succeeded in keeping the price down, during a period of far greater shortage in supply than exists today? [HON. MEMBERS: "Who gave it up?"] May it not have been an error on the part of whoever did it to give up that process? In the light of the consequences seen today, would not the Minister consider going back to that method of procuring, which kept the price down?

I certainly would consider it if I thought that it would be the right thing to do.

asked the Minister of Food whether, in view of the fact that tea prices at London auctions have fallen, he will take steps, by price control or otherwise, to prevent any further increase in the price of tea

asked the Minister of Food if, in view of the price fluctuations on tea at the auction marts in recent days, he will reimpose control over a limited period to maintain price stability until the position is easier

It would be fruitless to attempt to stabilise the world price of tea by price control without rationing.

Is the Minister not aware that, despite the recent fall in tea prices at the auctions, various tea, companies have announced that there will be further increases in price at the end of the month? [An Hon. Member: "Not now."] Is the Minister going to do anything about that, and make it quite clear to the price-ringers of the tea trade that he will take resolute action against any attempt to bully or blackmail shopkeepers who try to sell tea below the current inflated prices?

I think that I made it clear that if price control were imposed. it would not produce the result which we all want, namely, lower prices, in the long run, for tea.

Is the Minister aware that when his predecessor derationed tea an assurance was given to the House that the price would rise by ½d. per lb., that it has now risen by 4s. 8d. per lb., and are we to take it that there is no appropriate stage at all when this Government will take action to stabilise prices?

I cannot believe my predecessor forecast what would happen as far ahead as now in regard to the price of tea when it was decontrolled. I am quite sure that he did not give the assurance to which the hon. Lady has referred except in the sense he did it from the short-term point of view of what would happen.

If the Government are ready to incur a loss of £20 million on the sale of road service lorries, why not suspend the sales of those lorries and use the £20 million levy to subsidise the price of tea?

asked the Minister of Food whether he will appoint an independent committee to inquire into the organisation of tea marketing, packing, and distribution, and to make recommendations with a view to reducing the margin between the cost of production and the price paid by the consumer, by price control or otherwise

I do not think that such an inquiry would serve a useful purpose.

In view of the fact that two pungent words from the Prime Minister of Ceylon punctured the tea-market bubble, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that there ought to be an inquiry into this chaotic racket, which gives no benefit to the consumer or to the producer?

I have already given what I consider to be the causes of present prices, and those causes are almost all outside the control of the Government.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the facts given in the "Economist" this week show that no profiteering has taken place in the tea market?

asked the Minister of Food (1) what special action was taken by his Department to prevent the deterioration of nearly 1,000 tons of Cheshire cheeses held in store in 1954 which became unfit for human consumption;

As regards Question No. 4, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to him by my hon. Friend on 14th February. Of the170,000 tons of cheeses of all types which my Department had to buy up to September, 1954, 1,400 tons—less than 1 per cent.—became unsuitable for human consumption, in spite of continuous efforts to clear it quickly by price reductions. The average price realised was about Id., and the loss about £200,000, or less than 1 per cent. of the value of the cheese bought by my Department in 1954—£28½ million.

In regard to Question No. 3, can the right hon. Gentleman deny that some of the Cheshire cheeses were stored in old cotton mills, and that the Department was warned what would happen to them? Would it not have been possible to have got rid of some of the cheese by using it in hospitals or in old people's homes rather than see it deteriorate in the way it did?

As far as the first part of that rather long supplementary question is concerned, I would remind the hon. Gentleman that I said that during the period in question every effort was made by price reductions to dispose of the lower-quality cheese. It was stored in a variety of places because we had not enough cold storage space, but it was inspected regularly throughout the period. As regards the last part of the supple mentary question, I would say that, according to the best of my information, it was ordinary commercial experience before the war that of these rather perish able cheeses some proportion was disposed of as animal feed. If the hon. Member considers the proportion here, he will see it is extremely low——

Nearly one thousand five hundred tons.

The proportion was extremely low, and I do not think, though I regret any loss, that it can be regarded as at all abnormal.

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the answer, I propose to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Food why he permitted an increase on the price of cheese sold by his Department of l0d. per lb. in December, 1951, and thereafter permitted cheese priced at 1s. 2d. in October, 1951, to rise to 2s. 6d. per lb. during 1952 to 1954, when the stocks of his Department were so high that they had to be disposed of at a substantial loss

The controlled price of cheese never rose above 2s. 4d. Of the actual increase of 1s. 2d. per lb. under control l0d. was imposed in pursuance of the policies of the late Government.

How is it that the late Government did not impose the increase? It was the present Government.

There are quite a number of things that the late Government omitted to do.

asked the Minister of Food what foods are now subsidised

I would refer the right hon. Member to the full particulars of the subsidies administered by my Department contained in the reply given to the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) on 15th February.

Is it not the case that bread, milk and meat are all still subsidised? If the Minister can subsidise them without rationing them, why is it impossible to subsidise tea without rationing it?

Bread and milk are both commodities for which the demand is comparatively inelastic, and both are in ready supply. I think that that is the answer. The answer to the rationing point is that if we impose price control on commodities that are in short supply then we are almost bound to impose rationing, or we force the commodities under the counter.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree, with regard to the answer to which he has referred, that this list is, in the main, one of trading losses, and not subsidies at all in the usual sense—merely losses sustained by the Ministry in realising its stocks? Does he not think that the Ministry ought to have done better? How was there a loss of several million on sugar?

After six years of groundnuts.

I cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman. I think that if he looks at the list he will see that, in the main, they are what are generally called producer subsidies. It is extremely difficult to draw a line between producer subsidies and consumer subsidies, and they overlap, but the loss on Government trading formed a small proportion of the total, a i against it there were profits.

As the previous Minister derationed tea when the price was at 3s. 8d. per lb., why is it not possible to bring the price down to, say, 5s. per lb. by a subsidy without having to ration it?

One factor is the demand for tea, which has increased per head.

Is it not perfectly clear that the demand for tea is inelastic? Is that not one of the reasons why the price has gone up so sharply? Can the right hon. Gentleman make out any case for paying a subsidy on bread and refusing to pay one on tea?

As I have pointed out, tea is in short supply. Bread and milk are not in short supply.

asked the Minister of Food how much of the supplementary estimate of £16,600,000 for fat-stock was required for direct subsidy payments to pig producers

About £15 million.

Will the right hon. Gentleman assure us that he will not penalise the pig producers by cutting the subsidy before he investigates the very wide margin between what the pig producer receives and what the unfortunate housewife has to pay?

That is one of the matters which is very much under discussion at present.

asked the Minister of Food what improvements have been made in the administration of the subsidy on eggs and egg products.

It would be impracticable to give the necessary details within the compass of an answer to a Question. I am writing to the hon. Member.

I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman, but does he realise that the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General shows that the Ministry made efforts to keep up the price of eggs, and is his Department still trying to do so?

As regards the observations of the Comptroller and Auditor General, I think that last week my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary asked the hon. Gentleman to await the reply which the Department will be making to the Public Accounts Committee on the Report.

asked the Minister of Food why the current subsidies on fat-stock amount to£82 million, and a profit on imported meat and bacon of £6,500,000, whereas the subsidy on meat and bacon last year was £57 million, and in view of the fact that there have been increases in retail prices

The difference is due to increased supplies of home-produced meat, mainly pigs, and lower profits on imported meat and bacon.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what is the relationship between the further £16½ million for which he is asking in the Supplementary Estimate and the increased retain prices which have sent up the cost-of-living index, and what does his hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary mean by referring to distribution costs?

I cannot quite understand that supplementary question, but there does not seem to me to be any direct relationship between the two.

In view of the inability of the right hon. Gentleman to understand the point, Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice that I shall take an early opportunity of raising this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Food when control by order was removed from home-killed and imported meat, butter, margarine, and cooking fat, what trade agreements were negotiated by his Department in regard to retail prices; and, since prices of these have risen substantially since price control ended, if he will seek new trade agreements or reimpose control.

Rationing and retail price control of butter, margarine, and cooking fat came to an end on 8th May, and of meat on 4th July, 1954. No trade agreements about retail prices of these foods were negotiated. Butter, margarine, and cooking fat are now available at prices below those under control.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that butter, in 1951, was 2s. 6d. per lb., that then, when it was derationed, it was 3s. 4d., and that today it is anything between 3s. l0d. and 4s. 2d. per lb.? Is he aware that, due to the in crease in the index figure of the cost of living, the iron and steel workers in my constituency, whose earnings are tied to the cost of living, have had an increase in their wages? The inference is, there fore, that the prices of iron and steel are bound to go up, because the right hon. Gentleman is closing his eyes, is adopting a do-nothing policy, which means that——

Question.

Order. These supplementary questions are really very long.

I think I must remind the hon. Lady that the cost of living has gone up very much less in the last three years.

asked the Minister of Food whether he is aware of the continuous rise in food prices since October, 1951; and whether he will hold an inquiry into causes of these increases and the possibility of reducing food prices to their 1951 levels

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my hon. Friend on 14th February to the hon. Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Lewis). I do not think that an inquiry would serve any useful purpose.

I understand that the Minister accepts no responsibility for the rise in prices, but will he not explain to the House that he is as concerned as we are about these rises in prices since 1951, particularly in view of the Election pledges which placed him and his colleagues on that side of the House? Would he not welcome the opportunity of putting the blame where it really belongs, which is what this inquiry would do?

I am always concerned at increases in prices, but I would point out to the hon. Gentleman that the standard of living in this country has risen in the last three years.

Would my right hon. Friend say how the continuous rise of prices since 1951 compares with the continuous rise of prices under the previous Administration?

asked the Minister of Food which principal foodstuffs as included in the cost-of-living index have decreased in price since October, 1951, and by what percentage in each case; and which have increased in price since October, 1951, and by what percentage in each case

I would refer the hon. Member to the figures published quarterly in the Ministry of Labour Gazette on the basis set out in paragraph 84 of the Report of the Cost of Living Advisory Committee (Cmd. 8481). The last set of figures were published in November, 1954, and the next should be available in March.

Why is the right hon. Gentleman afraid to give these figures plainly to the House? Is it because they would reveal how lamentably the Government have failed to carry out their promises to keep down the cost of living?

I am always glad to answer Questions if they are going to supplement information which is available, but where the information is already available I am not sure that it would be right to take up the time of the House in giving it.

Would it not have taken the right hon. Gentleman no more time specifically to have answered my hon. Friend's Question than it took for this elaborate course of evasion in order that he should not have to give the crude facts to the House?

I would agree that some of the Questions are taking rather longer to dispose of than I had hoped.

asked the Minister of Food what additional ingredients will be contained in the national milk loaf; and what price increase he has approved for this purpose

Skim milk powder is the only new ingredient but bakers may wish to add more fat and other ingredients, which are already permitted. The price addition must not exceed what is reasonable in relation to the extra cost of ingredients.

Is the Minister trying to do something to avoid another flop, similar to that which attended the attempt to introduce white bread? Is he not aware that merely to add skim milk powder to the loaf will produce a quite indigestible product? Is he not exercising some control over the additional price to be charged for this loaf?

I should like to make it clear that I am not introducing the milk loaf. All that I am doing is to allow bakers to produce and sell a milk loaf if they can do so. The price must be reasonable. If it is not reasonable, the traders concerned will be prosecuted through the courts.

asked the Minister of Food what tests for radioactivity have been applied by his Department to canned fish imported from Japan

None, Sir. I am advised that the risks to public health are negligible.

Is the Minister aware that some thousands of tons of canned fish from Japan were imported into this country in1954, and in view of Press reports that fish with radioactive particles in their bodies have been caught off the Japanese coast since the hydrogen bomb explosion, does he not think it would be wise to test some of this food to find out if it is safe for human consumption?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that this is a very important matter indeed, but the advice that I have had on this matter is both authoritative and definite.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us upon what the advice is based, if no tests were made?

Not in detail without notice.

asked the Minister of Food (1) the total meat consumption of the nation for 12 months ended on the latest convenient date and the comparative figure for 12 months prior to the end of rationing; and by how much percentum, and in tons, respectively, meat consumption has increased;

As the answer involves a number of figures, I will, with my hon. Friend's leave, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Why is my right hon. Friend anxious that the House should not be given the benefit orally of these highly satisfactory figures of the increased consumption of basic foodstuffs? Is it not a fact that the consumption of meat since the end of rationing has increased by no less than 12½ per cent., and that of other foodstuffs has increased commensurately? Is not this evidence of the success of the policy of Her Majesty's Government?

On a point of order. Is it in order for an hon. Member to give, by way of a supplementary question, the answer to the Question which he himself has asked?

That is rather a complicated question, but the truth is that supplementary questions from both sides of the House frequently seem to me to consist more of giving information than of seeking it.

Further to that point of order. Is it not the fact that the essence of a successful supplementary question should be that the Member knows the answer before he puts it?

If I may say so, the essence of a successful supplementary question is that it should be short.

rose——

On a point of order. I was allowed to ask a supplementary question to my original Question, and as nearly the whole of Question Time has been monopolised by Members of the Opposition Front Bench may I protect the rights of private Members on the Government side of the House by asking that my supplementary question should now be answered by the Minister?

The Minister said that he was circulating the answer to the hon. Gentleman's Question in the OFFICIAL REPORT, and it seems to me that a further supplementary question in advance of the publication of that answer might be a waste of time.

On a point of order. My hon. Friend had three Questions down to the Minister. Would he not have been entitled to refuse to accept one answer to those three Questions, and to have insisted on a separate answer, in which event he could have asked three supplementary questions? But my hon. Friend played cricket. He said, "No, I will put them all together." Therefore, could he not, on those grounds, ask a much longer supplementary question?

Order. We must pass on to the next Question. I must make it clear to the House that when a Question is asked for information which consists

asked the Minister of Supply what progress has been made in the design of motor cars in recent years towards standardising the height of bumpers above the ground

This is a matter for motor car manufacturers and I believe that the industry is well aware of the desirability of as much uniformity as possible in bumper heights. The great variation in size of cars, however, presents considerable difficulty. It is becoming the practice to fit cars with overriders, and this is of special importance in North American markets.

Would my right hon. and learned Friend not agree that bumpers are useless unless they are the same of many figures, it is proper to circulate the answer in the OFFICIAL REPORT, since it is hard for the House to catch up with a long string of figures given from the Dispatch Box. When it is a bona fide request for information, one supplementary question is in order, but it is turning the proceedings at Question Time into an argument when the occasion is made one for debate instead of one for seeking information.

It is probably desirable to avoid legislation, but I think the point about the overrider meets a great deal of what my hon. Friend has said.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that some years ago the manufacturers agreed to this, and is he not further aware that many accidents take place because of bumpers interlocking at parking places and elsewhere, and that a considerable amount of damage arises from the discrepancy in the height of bumpers?

I agree that there is a British Standard, but there is also considerable difficulty from the point of view of the difference in the size of cars.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the worst feature is that of cars which do not have bumpers at all, and that an overrider cannot be fitted to a bumper that is not there?

asked the Minister of Supply what report he has received from the Iron and Steel Board, under the provisions of Sections 5 and 6 of the Iron and Steel Act, 1953, concerning the present shortage of steel sheet and the problems raised by the expansion plans of the motor industry

I have not received any report from the Iron and Steel Board under the provisions mentioned by the hon. Member but I have had reports from time to time on the steel supply position generally, including sheet steel. In addition, I received recently from the Board a Report on the Development of the Industry from 1953–1958 which I shall, in accordance with Section 16 (2) of the Iron and Steel Act, 1953, be laying before the House tomorrow. This Report shows that considerable developments of sheet steel production are taking place, and that the problems raised by the expansion plans of the motor industry and other users are being borne in mind.

In view of the fact that imports of steel sheet are now running at the annual rate of £10 million a year, and in view of the consequent effects on our balance of payments and the further expansion plans of the industry if this goes on, is this not a matter about which the Government must be very much concerned? Are they not in some difficulty owing to the fact that any plan for an expansion of the production of steel sheet must be that of an individual firm at the present time instead of that of the industry as a whole?

That is not quite true because the Iron and Steel Board has an over-riding responsibility, but if the hon. Gentleman will wait until the Report is placed before the House tomorrow, I think he will see the way in which the matter is being tackled.

asked the Minister of Supply when he expects the new rifle adopted for use in the Forces to be in production in Britain; and why it is not yet in production

Production in the United Kingdom will not begin until troop trials of the rifles supplied from Belgium have been completed. In the meantime, production planning is proceeding, but in my view it is wiser not to commence production itself until we know the results of the troop trials.

Can the Minister explain what the Secretary of State for War meant over a year ago when he said that by adopting the Belgian rifle and abandoning the British rifle we should save a year in production; and is it not the case that this delay has been caused by redesign of the rifle in an unsuccessful attempt to persuade the Canadians and the Americans to adopt it? Is it not also the case that his Ministry is as incapable of producing rifles as it is of producing aircraft?

Perhaps we may discuss the latter part of that supplementary question on another occasion. So far as the first part of the question is concerned, I was asked why production had not commenced so far, and I gave the reply.

But did not the Prime Minister state, nearly three years ago, that the Government preferred the Belgian rifle to the proposed British rifle, which was regarded by the War Office as the best in the world, and why have the Government allowed so much time to elapse in view of the decision to enter into production?

The right hon. Gentleman is well aware of the advantages of having the Belgian rifle, namely, proceeding towards standardisation.

But is the Minister aware that I am not aware of any advantage to be derived from the Belgian rifle in preference to the British rifle? And may I ask him also why, in view of the statement made by the Prime Minister nearly three years ago, nothing has been done?

With regard to the suggested statement of the Prime Minister, I should like the right hon. Gentleman to give me chapter and verse for it.

Would not the Minister agree that this interminable delay must stem from the fact that the present Government reversed the decision of the late Government, which was on the point of producing a British rifle, and can he give any reasons for that reversal or any excuse for the delay which has occurred?

The right hon. Gentleman says that the previous plan was on the point of producing the British rifle. He is quite wrong. No production order had been given.

Is the Minister aware that the late Government had made the necessary preparations to go ahead with production as soon as the all-clear was given by the Government?

No production order had been placed.

asked the Minister of Supply why the production schedule for Sapphire jet engines has fallen behind; and what steps he is taking to bring production up to the original programme

asked the Minister of Supply what measures he is taking in order to bring the production of Sapphire jet engines up to schedule.

The production of Sapphire jet engines fell somewhat behind programme because on testing the engine it was found desirable to replace certain rigid piping with flexible piping. Arrangements have been made to increase the rate of production of the flexible piping. The target for engine production is set some time in advance of the requirements of aircraft manufacturers for engines, to allow for temporary delays in production for reasons such as this. There has not been delay in meeting the requirements of the aircraft manufacturers.

Whilst thanking the Minister for that answer, may I ask him if he is aware that there is much disquiet amongst the Coventry workers engaged on this job, and can he give an assurance to the House that he will personally look into this matter and guarantee that it will catch up with the schedule?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his supplementary question. This is an improvement which has been arrived at in the course of development, and I will see that it does not hold up production.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that if there are more Avons produced that Sapphires, it means that the Hawker Hunter is being equipped with the engine which causes trouble when its guns are fired?

I do not think that that question arises out of this one.

asked the Minister of Supply if he is aware that, in the Italian Press, details have been given on a new rocket-propelled interceptor, with Mach speeds of operational heights quoted; and what representations he has made about these breaches of British security regulations.

No, Sir. I have been unable to trace the Press report to which the hon. Members refers, but if he will let me have details I will make inquiries.

I will certainly send the Minister details, but is he aware that even if he cannot trace this particular case, there are a good many instances of information being circulated in the foreign Press when that information is denied to the British public in responsible British journals at home; and is the right hon. and learned Gentleman satisfied that present Press security regulations are working satisfactorily?

This Question refers to an Italian paper, but I agree that there are a number of speculative and often inaccurate reports in the foreign Press about what is happening in this country.

asked the Minister of Supply the estimated additional cost of bringing Comet II and Comet III to the standard now required; and what financial contribution the Government is proposing to make towards meeting this extra cost.

The manufacturers will have to negotiate with their customers about these extra costs. It would, therefore, not be right for me to give any figures. With regard to the Government's contribution, the price paid for any Comet IIs bought for Government service will include the cost of bringing them up to the required standard. The Ministry of Supply proposes to assist in the further development of the Comet series and in the tests to which the new Comet aircraft will be subjected to ensure their safety. This programme and its cost is now being discussed with the manufacturers.

asked the Minister of Supply why the White Paper on the Supply of Military Aircraft, Command Paper No. 9388, does not mention the system of super-priority for certain types of fighter aircraft announced by the Prime Minister in March, 1952; whether this system is still in operation; and whether he will make a statement.

The main purpose of super-priority was to ensure that production was not held up by shortage of materials and other resources. As the White Paper shows, it is in development rather than production that the difficulties have been encountered which have held up re-equipment of the Services with aircraft. The system is still in operation, and has produced valuable results.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that if super-priority had been a success paragraph 1 of the White Paper would have said so? Is it not a fact that the impetuous action of the Prime Minister in interfering in a subject which he does not understand has thrown the whole of the aircraft industry into chaos?

I do not agree at all. At a time of shortages, super-priority was of value. To give one example, in the case of the Valiant it was a distinct advantage.

Does that mean that there are no shortages now, and that, therefore, there is no need for super-priority?

It means that the situation has very much improved since the right hon. Gentleman left office.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware of what he said? He said that super-priority had been extended to the Valiant bomber. Will he tell the House when super-priority was extended from fighter aircraft to bomber aircraft? The Prime Minister's original statement said that super-priority applied exclusively to fighters.

My information is that the V-bombers have been on the super-priority list. If the hon. Gentleman will put a Question on the Order Paper, I will confirm that.

asked the Minister of Supply what type of British night fighter is capable of equalling the performance and fire power of the United States F86D.

It would be wrong for me to give a detailed comparison between British aircraft and American aircraft which would involve disclosing matters which are secret. In any case the F86D is a single-seater night fighter and we do not use single-seater night fighters.

If the right hon. and learned Gentleman is concerned about security, does he realise that by reading the American and British technical Press he can establish that the F86D has a speed of 660 m.p.h. compared with our fastest all-weather fighter's speed of 600 m.p.h.? Is he also aware that the F86D has a double-dish radar, and that none of our aircraft has anything like that?

What I am saying to the hon. Gentleman is that to draw a comparison between a single-seater night fighter and a two-seater night fighter is profitless. I do not believe that single-seater night fighters could operate in the climatic conditions around this country.

Is it not the case that the complexity of the equipment of the single-seater night fighter F86D is so great that the serviceability of the squadrons using it is very low indeed compared with that of British squadrons which use twin-seater night fighter aircraft?

I think there are great advantages in having twin-seater night fighters.

If the right hon. and learned Gentleman cannot make a comparison, why was the dishonest statement made in the White Paper—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—that our night fighter defences were better than anywhere else in the world?

I do not know who was the author of the White Paper, but the hon. Member should not use terms like "dishonest" about other hon. Members.

Withdraw.

Certainly I will withdraw the word "dishonest," and I will replace it with "grossly misleading."

In reply to the supplementary question by the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg), I would say that it is not possible to give a detailed comparison because there are many other factors besides speed and fire-power to be taken into account. The statement in the White Paper related to general performance, including the ground equipment and the equipment of the aircraft.

Is it not true that in the White Paper the Government have declared that our aircraft are capable, in the event of night attack, of putting up a performance better than any other defensive aircraft in the world? Is that true as compared with what the United States Air Force can put up?

That is most certainly true.

rose——

Mr. Shinwell.

Do we take it——

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker——

I observed the right hon. Gentleman rise a second time, and I have now called him. He is a former Minister of Defence.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman now saying quite categorically that our air defence in respect of possible night attack is superior to that possessed by the United States?

I am saying it quite definitely. I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman, who was himself responsible for ordering many of these aircraft, should now seek to depreciate them.

rose——

Order. The House can debate these matters later. We cannot debate them at Question Time.

asked the Minister of Supply on what date production contracts were completed for the Venom fighter- bomber FB1 and FB4 and the Venom night-fighter NF2 and NF3; what con tracts were cancelled; and what com pensation was paid in respect of such cancellations.

Production is not yet completed of any of the four marks of this aircraft, though the great bulk of the existing orders for the FB1s and the NF2s have been completed. In addition to orders placed previously, over 1,000 Venoms were ordered in the first nine months of 1951. Since October, 1951, about 750 have been cancelled and 280 changed to later marks. No compensation was paid, but materials and work done which are no longer required are being paid for at a total estimated cost of about £3· million.