asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether it is now intended to retain Schloss Benkhausen, in Land Lower Saxony, as a naval residence after the coming into force of the Paris Agreement; and what rent will then be paid for it.

The location of the Flag Officer, Germany, depends principally on the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation tasks for which he is responsible. I am unable, at present, to say whether he will remain at Benkhausen after the Paris Treaties become effective.

If he does, Schloss Benkhausen will continue to be his headquarters and residence. Payment of rent, which amounts to approximately £900 a year, will be governed by the Note on Financial Arrangements appended to the Paris Agreements.

Is the Civil Lord aware that this charmingand luxurious residence is 70 miles from the sea, 120 miles from Bonn, and 400 miles from N.A.T.O. headquarters in Paris?

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty the duties of the Flag Officer, Germany; and whether this post will be maintained after the coming into force of the Paris Agreement.

:The Flag Officer, Germany, in his North Atlantic Treaty Organisation capacity as the Commander, Allied Naval Forces, Northern Area, Central Europe, is responsible to the Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, for naval planning matters in the British Zone and for the operational control of the Royal Naval forces in Germany. He is the naval member of the Commanders-in-Chief Committee (Germany) which is responsible to the Chiefs of Staff Committee in this country. The entry into force of the Paris Treaties will not affect the foregoing duties of the post until at least the future German navy is capable of performing the tasks required of naval forces in Germany.

Can the Civil Lord say whether it is not a fact that, unless this gallant Admiral is to conduct his operations on canals and rivers, the majority of his duties are in connection with N.A.T.O.; and would it not be better if he were situated rather closer to N.A.T.O. headquarters?

:That point has been considered, and I doubt very much whether it would be worth while shifting his headquarters at the present time.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty the duties of the Assistant Director (Management Training) in the Dockyard Department; and when the appointment will be made.

The duties of the Assistant Director (Management Training) in the Dockyard Department are: to study methods of industrial management in the dockyards and in industry generally; to propose types of training for dockyard officers in management technique; and to suggest improved methods of management in the Royal Dockyards themselves. A civilian officer was appointed to these duties on 1st June, 1954, for an initial period of two years.

:While congratulating the Admiralty on at last accepting, at least in spirit, one of the recommendations of the Select Committee on Estimates, which reported on the efficiency of the Royal Dockyards a few years ago, may I ask him why he has not provided this information before, and whether he can now make a fuller statement on the duties of this officer?

I hope that it may be possible to make a fuller statement later. Training is already beginning, on the recommendations of this officer, and further training will probably be organised later. It is a little early to make a further statement.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty in view of the importance for the economic life of Gibraltar that an allocation of oil bunkering tankerage should be made for commercial peacetime purposes, what consideration has been given to this matter by his Department; and when a decision can be expected.

:The Admiralty has been considering recently, in conjunction with the various interests concerned, whether and in what way it can help towards the provision of additional commercial bunkering facilities in Gibraltar. I hope that it will be possible to reach a decision in the near future.

:I thank the Civil Lord for what he has just said, but can he assure the House that the Admiralty is seized of the need, in connection with this intensely loyal community, to do everything possible to mitigate any hardship caused by outside interests, and to show them and the rest of the world that it pays to be British?

We are very anxious to do anything that we can to help the Colony, and that is why we have looked at this question sympathetically, but it is a highly technical question.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty the percentage of established Maltese dockyard workers employed in Her Majesty's Dockyard, Malta.

Approximately 5 per cent. of the posts for Maltese industrial employees in Her Majesty's Dockyard, Malta, are established.

Does not my hon. Friend think that the figures he has given are lamentably low? Will he agree that, as the dockyard is Malta's main industry, an increase in the numbers on establishment would not only give a sense of security to the dockyard but to the people of the island as a whole?

I realise that many would like to see the figures increased, but I must point out that the percentage of establishment is high in comparison with our other overseas bases.

What is the comparison with that of dockyards at home?

:In comparison, in dockyards at home the degree of establishment is very much fuller, and there has been an increase in the last year or two.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what representation has been made to him regarding the low rate of wages enjoyed by the unskilled workers in Her Majesty's Dockyards.

:No special representations have been received on behalf of unskilled workers, but the trade union side of the Shipbuilding Trades Joint Council has recently tabled a general claim for wage increases covering all grades within the Council's terms of reference.

:Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that these unskilled workers receive less than agricultural workers? Will he do what he can to help them in their wage claims?

I do not think I can very well comment whilst negotiations are going on, but of course we shall look at the claim in the usual way.

:Bearing in mind the special responsibility of the Civil Lord in this matter, will the hon. Gentleman agree that the National Joint Industrial Council machinery would work better if the First Lord were able to get, in the Estimates, enough money to meet the requirements of those employed in the dockyards?

:I cannot agree with that. We do pay rates comparable with those in outside industry. If in some cases earnings are lower, one of the main reasons is that there is far less overtime worked in these dockyards.

:Is my hon. Friend aware that the comparison with the agricultural worker is not a fair one, because he is a highly skilled person?

Will the Civil Lord agree that the personnel mentioned in this Question will be among the hardest hit if the Admiralty insists on postponement of the assisted travel scheme, particularly as it affects Rosyth Dockyard in Fife?

I do not think the hon. Member should assume that the assisted travel scheme is to be ended, although we look at these travel schemes from time to time.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty how the wages of skilled and semi-skilled workers in Her Majesty's Dockyards compare with wages paid for similar skilled and semi-skilled trades in industry.

As the reply contains a number of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the Official Report.

Will the Civil Lord bear in mind that there is very little

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty the number of helicopters available at home and in the Mediterranean, respectively, for training Royal Marine Commandos.

It is not practicable to allocate any of the limited number of helicopters available for the specific purpose of training Royal Marine Commandos either at home or in the Mediterranean. We are well aware, however, of the potential value of helicopters in amphibious warfare, and Royal Marine officers and noncommissioned officers are given opportunities to familiarise themselves with their characteristics, limitations and military opportunity for overtime in these dockyards? Will he take that into consideration when considering the wages of the dockyard worker and also remember that the unskilled dockyard worker—however paid—is as skilled as the agricultural worker?

Certainly I will take that into account, but we have to bear in mindalso that establishment benefits are quite valuable, and there are other differences between dockyard workers and those outside.

:Whilst thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask if he will undertake to give grave consideration to acquiring at least one or two troop-carrying helicopters? Will he agree that it is essential to train modern raiding forces with modern technique and modern equipment?

I will look into that matter, but I cannot hold out very high hopes at the moment.

Is the Civil Lord aware that those who are concerned about the use of helicopters are grateful to the Admiralty for its very progressive outlook on this matter? May I ask him to try to get the same sort of spirit into the Army and the Air Force?

I thank the hon. Member.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty to what extent applicants for discharge by purchase have to provide evidence that they have the offer of employment on release; and whether any specific wage is demanded.

:There is no general rule that a specific offer of employment is required. In cases where a man applies for discharge on the ground that he can obtain more highly-paid employment, he is naturally required to produce evidence of the employment available and the wage offered.

:Would it be wrong if an officer told a constituent of mine that before he could apply for discharge he must have a job in civilian life at £8 10s. to £10 a week?

I should like details of that, but no fewer than 87 per cent.of those who applied for discharge from March to December last were granted discharge, and hon. Members will see that it is a very high percentage.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will make a further statement about the status of dilutees in Admiralty employment.

I cannot yet add to the answer which my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend on 30th June last, although the status of dilutees in Admiralty establishments is at present under examination. I will write to my hon. Friend as soon as this examination is complete.

:Is it not 15 years since these relaxation agreements were entered into? Is not that a very long time for people who are in a deferred industrial category? Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that Admiralty dilutees are now in a much worse position than those in comparable Air Ministry employment?

We will examine this question, but, as my hon. Friend knows, it is a very complex one. More than one trade union is involved, and there are differing viewpoints about it.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is satisfied with the present rate of recruitment into the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors; and what steps he is taking to improve this.

The rate of recruitment has not been satisfactory but there was a welcome improvement last year, when we recruited eight probationers, four from universities and four from the Royal Dockyards. We have recently informed the universities of increases in the salaries of probationers and assistant constructors which are specifically designed to help recruitment. I hope that these will result in a further improvement this year.

Is it not a fact that the strength of the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors is 30 per cent. or 40 per cent. below establishment, and that the recruiting position is not sufficient to make good the losses of the Corps? In view of the recent statement on officer structure in the Royal Navy, will my hon. Friend consider whether the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors should be brought into the new scheme?

Consideration could be given to that point. We are certainly most anxious to attract more men to this Corps, and we are doing everything we can with that end in view.

Although we are quite sure that consideration could be given, may we ask whether consideration will be given to that suggestion? Is it not the case that a third of the recruits to this Corps have resigned over a number of years because of dissatisfaction? Will the hon. Gentleman make inquiries and have an investigation to see what is necessary to restore the morale of the Corps?

I will certainly make further inquiries if the hon. Member wishes, but only one officer has resigned since 1951, and that was to do the same duties in Canada.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he is aware that yachts in the Mediterranean which are owned and manned by foreigners are flying the British flag; and what action the Government are taking to stop this abuse.

I have grounds for believing that some yachts in the Mediterranean do fly British ensigns to which they are not entitled. The ships of the Mediterranean Fleet are always on the alert to prevent these abuses but, as my hon. and gallant Friend will realise, it is not easy to catch the offenders.

:In addition to those which might be detained for illegal activities, will my hon. Friend bear in mind that there are others which by the simple legal process of forming a small company in this country, with a very small nominal capital and an even smaller paid-up capital, can legally fly the British flag? May I call attention to the following vessels in this connection— "Fair Lady," "Halcyon," "Raiatea," "Sinloo," "Sylvia" and "Blue Trout"—and ask whether my hon. Friend will look into the status of these vessels, because reports reaching me suggest that some of them do no credit to our flag?

I will certainly look into the cases that my hon. and gallant Friend has raised.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what action he has taken to ensure the closest possible co-operation between the Admiralty Research Department and the British Shipbuilding Research Association.

The Director of Naval Construction, the Engineer-in-Chief of the Fleet and the Chief of the Royal Naval Scientific Service are members of the Association's Research Board, and Admiralty representatives also serve on many of its technical committees.

Whilst appreciating what the Civil Lord has said, may I ask, in view of the intense competitive conditions which the shipbuilding industry now faces, if he will accept it as being his duty to promote the closest co-operation between the Admiralty and the industry in order to see that the Admiralty shall afford every possible facility towards bringing about the greatest efficiency?

I can assure the hon. Member that the closest possible liaison between our own technical people and the shipbuilding industry exists, and information is exchanged mutually.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what progress is being made with regard to the placing of orders in British shipyards by the Soviet Union and other East European countries.

:British shipbuilders are free to accept from the Soviet Union and eastern European countries orders for ships, save for a few types of strategic importance, and the shipbuilding industry has assured my right hon. Friend of its willingness to build for these countries, provided that satisfactory contract conditions can be agreed.

Could the Minister give some details about the actual restrictions which still exist in this field?

No, I am afraid I could not give the details. They are rather complicated, but they are well known to the industry.

:Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there has been some considerable doubt existing between the different European countries as to what orders might be accepted from Russia, and, as he will remember, there was a dispute regarding orders in Holland? Could he publish a list showing the type of ship orders for which could not be accepted?

I doubt whether that would be very wise at the moment. The whole matter is under discussion at present with the other countries affected.

:The Civil Lord says that the whole matter is under discussion. Is it not time that we had something definite about it? Who are dragging their feet? Ought not this matter to be settled by now?

I hope that it will be possible before very long to reach some form of agreement, but there are many countries concerned.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General on what date he expects Molesey Telephone Exchange will be converted from manual to automatic operation.

I have been asked to reply for my hon. Friend, who is indisposed.

No date has been fixed for converting the Molesey exchange to automatic working, but part of the area at present served by this exchange will be connected to the new Teddington Lock automatic exchange which it is planned to open in 1960.

While thanking the Minister for his reply, may I ask whether he is aware that there is a certain amount of delay between London and the Molesey Exchange? Will he ask his hon. Friend to bring forward the date of conversion as soon as possible?

Yes, Sir. I will bring that to my hon. Friend's attention.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General the number of applicants on the waiting list for telephones in the Borough of Twickenham; at what rate this waiting list is being cleared; and when he expects that the total number of persons on the waiting list will be supplied with telephones.

:One thousand nine hundred and fifty-four applications are outstanding. This year it is hoped to connect about 1,700 telephones, but it is not possible to say when the order list will be cleared, as this depends upon the level of new demand.

:Is my hon. Friend aware that there is dissatisfaction in Twickenham over the telephone position—[HON. MEMBERS: "And elsewhere."]—particularly over the sharing of party lines? Will he ask his hon. Friend the Assistant Postmaster-General to expedite the provision of new lines in the area?

My hon. Friend is well aware of the state of affairs to which my hon. Friend refers.

Can the Minister say how much longer one has to wait for a new telephone than for a new car?

Not without notice.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what progress has been made in plans to convert the Bexleyheath Telphone Exchange from manual to automatic operation.

A new automatic exchange to be known as Crayford which will serve part of the Bexleyheath area is at present being designed. This exchange is expected to be opened in 1958. It is proposed to replace the Bexleyheath manual telephone exchange by an automatic exchange in 1960.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that his appearance at the Box this afternoon has been a great success?

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General if he is aware of the frustration caused to those who are on the waiting list for telephones in Rugby, by the delays in providing service; and what steps he is taking to speed up the installation of the new telephone cable for Rugby.

:The plans for a comprehensive scheme have been approved: new cables will begin to be installed later this year and my hon. Friend is confident that before long a steady and progressive reduction in the waiting list will take place.

:While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask on what basis a telephone is given to a new applicant? Is it a fact that only Members of Parliament, judges and bishops have immediate priority? If the hon. Gentleman does not know the answer, will he ask the Postmaster-General, who is in another place, because, unfortunately, we cannot get at him?

The hon. Member had better put that Question down.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General what stage he has reached in his negotiations with the United States Air Force concerning the restrictions, on security grounds, of the entry of Post Office staff to United States Air Force stations in Britain for the maintenance of Post Office equipment.

:Negotiations have now reached an advanced stage, and my hon. Friend is hopeful of achieving a solution satisfactory to all parties.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that the demand of the American Air Force that British Post Office workers should not be allowed to maintain Post Office equipment at United States air bases in this country is an insult to patriotic workers, who have full access to all British military establishments? Will he give an assurance that no extra-territorial rights will be allowed to the U.S. Air Force in this country, and that no decision will be reached on this matter without full agreement with the Staff Side of the Whitley Council?

I do not propose to add anything to what I have already said. I should have thought that the hon. Lady would be glad that my hon. Friend was hopeful of achieving a solution satisfactory to all parties.

Am I to understand from what the Minister has said that British Post Office workers cannot go on to United States premises?

That is quite right.

I do not propose to add anything further.

asked the Assistant Postmaster-General when last the charge for an express letter was fixed; and the annual income for the service.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the "Special Delivery" form of express service which is the one most commonly used. The charge of 6d. was fixed in 1936, and the annual income is about £100,000.

:Is my hon. Friend aware that his hon. Friend the Assistant Postmaster-General has raised the price of every other Post Office service since 1936, and why has this one been left unchanged? I understand that the Postmaster-General has had difficulty in balancing his budget. He might be able to get additional revenue from this source.

I must say that that was not the supplementary question which I was expecting.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air why a corporal clerk, whose case has been referred to him by the hon. Member for Newcastle, East, and who has completed six years of his 12 years' service, two of them in Egypt, should neither be allowed to purchase his discharge nor be retained in England, in view of his father's recent sudden death and his mother's ill health.

I am sorry that, for reasons which I have explained to the hon. Member in correspondence, I should not feel justified in changing my decision in this case. However, the airman's tour of duty in Egypt ends in August, and he would be brought home on leave before then if his mother's health made it necessary to do so.

Does the Under-Secretary of State not consider that distressing cases of this kind suggest that there should be some review of the conditions governing the purchase of discharge, and would he be prepared to look at the position again?

The conditions governing the purchase of discharge are, I think, quite clear. They are governed, first, by the manning position in a man's particular trade in the Air Force, and, second, by whether there are overriding compassionate grounds. In this case, I am afraid, corporal clerks' rank and trade are 15 per cent. undermanned, and I cannot feel that the compassionate grounds are overriding.

:Will the hon. Gentleman at least consider whether some of the posts for clerical duties of this kind could not be filled by civilian employees?

:We try to substitute civilians as much as possible, but we are talking now of overseas and it is not so easy there.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air what further orders for Pioneer aircraft have been placed in view of their proven usefulness in Malaya.

An order has recently been approved for a further four Pioneer aircraft. This will bring the number of these aircraft ordered for Malaya to 18.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that this civilian aircraft, which is doing a civilian job in a very good way indeed, deserves all the tributes he has paid to it, and will he do his best to further still more orders?

I think that on operational grounds 18 is about enough for that theatre, but I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman about the value of this very good aircraft.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware of the total loss recently of two British trawlers off the north coast of Iceland and of the circumstances in which this occurred; and if he will make a statement on the subject to this House.

Yes, Sir. I have decided to order a formal investigation into this loss under the Merchant Shipping Acts. In these circumstances hon. Members will not expect me to comment further on this tragic occurrence.

While thanking the Minister for that answer, may I ask him whether he is in a position to say yet whether anything could have been done to obviate this tragedy which was not done, and whether provision is being made for the dependants?

I would rather await the result of the inquiry before committing myself to comments on that subject.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the damaging misrepresentations that have been made public in various quarters as to the cause of the loss of the Lorella and Rodrigo? Is he aware of the rebuttal of those misrepresentations by the British Trawler Officers Guild, which has said that no blame attaches either to the Icelandic Government or to the conditions under which they sailed? Will the right hon. Gentleman give full publicity to this rebuttal?

:The formal investigation which I have ordered will take place in public, and will, I have no shadow of doubt, bring out the true facts.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what inquiry has been made into the comparative strength of ships that are welded as against those that are riveted; to what extent the comparatively new method has proved satisfactory; and, in view of maintaining complete confidence in our shipping and the need for the utmost safety at sea, the question will be examined.

:As the answer is very long I will, with permission, circulate it in the Official Report.

:Is the Minister aware that, owing to the number of incidents involving ships at sea following the introduction of this system, modifications are being considered? Will he see that in whatever changes take place no unnecessary risks are taken by our seamen?

I think that the hon. Member will be reassured when he sees the written answer in Hansard. It discloses that a great deal of research and investigation has taken place and is taking place on this important and difficult subject.

Can the Minister say whether any reference is made in his reply to X-ray below the waterline?

:I ask the hon. Member to read the reply. There is no specific reference to that point, because the form of the reply deals with investigations that have been and are being made as matters of organisation and not as matters of detail.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what progress has been made in the matter of establishing a system of suitable feeder services for Prestwick Airport.

On the recommendations of the Air Transport Advisory Council I have approved an application by Dragon Airways, Ltd., to operate a service between Liverpool, Prestwick—on demand—and Renfrew.

Applications to operate other feeder services for Prestwick will be similarly considered, but it is, of course, for operators to decide, in the exercise of their own commercial judgment, whether to apply.

:While thanking my right hon. Friend for that first helpful reply, may I ask if he will recall that time after time Prestwick has been designated an international airport, and will he not agree that without a full range of feeder services it is really impossible for it to be truly international?

Prestwick's standing as an international airport is not in question. The operation of additional feeder services, of course, depends on applications by operators who wish to operate such services.

:Could the Minister inform the House of the number of feeder services that have been offered to Prestwick in, say, the last four years, and the number that have been refused?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would put that question down.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to make a statement on the decision of British European Airways Corporation to increase fares on their internal routes as from 1st April.

:With my approval, British European Airways is increasing the fares on certain services within the United Kingdom as from 1st April. The increases, which vary in amount but are mostly between five and 15 per cent., are intended to reduce the substantial losses incurred by B.E.A. on internal services. The fares on these services remain, on average, some 30 per cent. below the level of those on the Corporation's international services.

:Is the Minister aware that this decision will press very hardly indeed on the island communities around Scotland, especially where there are families, and will tend to drive them back to the long surface routes? Is he not aware that this is a step towards the isolation out of which the air services were seeking to take these people?

I think that the hon. Member is concerned about the Islands and Highlands service. The basic single and 12-month return fares are not being increased. The increases on this traffic are confined to the cheaper monthly returns.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will make representations to the International Air Transport Association, or other appropriate body, in favour of increasing the present figure of maximum compensation payable to the dependants of passengers killed in civil aviation disasters.

A conference, called by theInternational Civil Aviation Organisation for September next to revise the provisions of the relevant international Convention, will have before it proposals that the limits of compensation should be raised. The United Kingdom delegation to the conference will be instructed to press for an increase.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask if he will see that the delegates are seized with the responsibility of seeing to it that, through no fault of fare-paying passengers on civil airlines, the families, widows and children of those passengers are not left beggared and ruined by events which are not their responsibility?

It is because of that consideration that our delegates will be instructed to press for an increase, but we shall have to carry other nations with us.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is now prepared to make a statement on the future of the engineering base at Renfrew.

No, Sir.

:Is it not the case that the Minister proposes to establish at Renfrew Airport a firm called Airwork General Trading Company, which will employ only two-thirds of the men at present employed there? If that is the case, is the Minister aware that the substitution of private industry for a nationalised industry in that part of Scotland will be highly resented?

No decision has yet been made on the British European Airways application to move. Consequently, the other points which the hon. Member has in mind do not at the moment arise.

:Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that no hasty decision will be reached on this question, which is being watched so closely throughout Scotland?

I admit that I have taken a certain amount of time and a good deal of trouble to consider this matter, and I can certainly give my hon. and gallant Friend the assurance for which he asks.

Will the right hon. Gentleman realise that the Scottish public are watching this matter very carefully, and are very much under the impression that on transport matters, particularly in the case of Renfrew, a very decided anti-Scottish bias is being shown?

This matter arises from the decision of British European Airways that economies in its organisation could be achieved by such a move. Neither British European Airways nor anybody else has the bias which the hon. Member suggests.

Would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that economies of a small kind like this might be far outweighed by the defence liabilities of a concentration of civil aviation in the centre of London? Would he not agree that the dispersal of the industry is a factor that should be taken into account?

:While, on the B.E.A.C. figures, I would not agree that the economies are small, the sort of considerations to which the right hon. Gentleman refers are just the considerations at which we are looking.

On a point of order. Will the right hon. Gentleman assure us—

That is not a point of order. It is an abuse of the practice of the House.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what progress has been made in the discussions he has conducted with the highway authorities and the British Transport Commission with the aim of securing a general agreement on the maintenance of roads over railway bridges and approaches.

I am not in a position to make a statement on this subject.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that discussions on this problem have now been going on for several years? Is it really beyond the ingenuity of his Department to work out a simple and sensible scheme which would be acceptable to both main parties concerned? How much longer have roads over railway bridges got to remain in their present deplorable condition?

It is not a matter of the ingenuity of my Department but of an agreement of some financial importance between the British Transport Commission on the one hand and the local authorities on the other. I hope that they will soon be able to come to an agreement.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how far his estimate of £120 million for the expanded road programme included interest charges; and how much he will now have to add to his previous calculations to meet the higher interest rates which have been introduced.

The answer to the first part of the Question is, "Not at all." The answer to the second part is, therefore, "Nothing."

Although the Minister may not have made any calculation of the interest charges in the first place, is it not fairly simple for him to have regard to the increase in interest charges and to say what difference will be made?

:No question of interest charges here arises. This expenditure, under present practice, falls directly on the Budget.

:Would the Minister indicate what he means by his reply that although the Bank Rate has gone up the loan charges are not affected? If that is so and logically true, would it not be advisable to increase the Bank Rate to 10 per cent.?

I did not say that loan charges were not affected. There is in this case no question of loan charges at all. It is a straight Budgetary expense.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will now state the degree of priority to be given either to the plan for widening Barnstaple Long Bridge, or to the alternative plan of making a new road and bridge; and whether he has yet decided which of these projects is to be proceeded with.

I have no statement to make at present. As my hon. and gallant Friend will be aware, I am awaiting such proposals with respect to the financial aspects of the widening scheme as the trustees may think fit to make.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are one or two quite important projects awaiting the result of his decision on this matter, and that the borough council concerned is hoping very much to get an answer before very long?

I can only say that I am awaiting an answer to a letter which my Department sent on 10th November to the clerk of the authority concerned and to which, so far as I know, no answer has been sent.

Having listened to the Minister's reply to Question No. 40, may I ask him if he has made any other arrangements and what progress is being made with regard to Cavendish Bridge in my area?

That may be an interesting question, but I think that it is another one.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if it has yet been possible for him to make an approximate assessment of the damage which has been caused to road surfaces during the current winter; and to what extent additional maintenance grants will be necessary to make good this exceptional damage.

No, Sir.

Will the Minister say when he is likely to be able to give a reply to a question of this nature? Will he go into the matter?

The hon. Member will appreciate that damage to road surfaces from ice and snow sometimes does not show for months. It is far too soon to say anything now.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what assistance the Government intend to give local authorities towards the expenses of snow clearance; and if he will make a statement.

The cost of clearing snow on classified roads is eligible for grant at the normal rates. The cost of clearing snow on trunk roads is of course the responsibility of my Department.

:Can the Minister tell us more about the facts, particularly in relation to the effect on poor authorities which, so far as I can see, are going to be very much hampered in their maintenance and repair programmes by the extra cost, especially after a winter which has done great damage to the roads?

As I have said, the hon. Gentleman's Question refers to the clearance of snow, and that work ranks for grant at the normal rate on classified roads. If the hon. Gentleman has in mind a further question about maintenance work, perhaps he will put it on the Order Paper.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that having to get snow-clearing equipment from Glasgow to deal with the recent snowstorms in the North of Scotland has proved extremely expensive, and can he not devise some method of having that machinery stationed in the North?

I will gladly look at any proposal about the stationing of the machinery which belongs to my Department, but the general policy is to station it at points from which it can be taken fairly quickly to where it is needed. If my hon. Friend feels that it is not so placed in Scotland, I shall be glad to look into the matter.

:Has the right hon. Gentleman done anything to retain the snow-clearing arrangements which were organised by British Road Services at various depots along the roads, or have they been sold, along with the transport vehicles?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will put that question on the Order Paper.

:Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that the cost of clearing the snow from many roads is not much more costly and less efficient than he feels it ought to be by reason of the employment by local authorities of equipment which is quite out of date?

There is a great deal of force in what my hon. Friend says, but my own Department's equipment, when available, is lent to local authorities for their work. Our equipment is, I think, pretty up to date.

:Is it not a fact that there is only a very small mileage of trunk roads in the Highland counties in comparison with the number of classified roads, and is it not also a fact that the communities of these remote regions are quite incapable of bearing the heavy cost brought about by the recent storms?

General questions upon the finance of local authorities as a result of the very severe weather encountered are, I think, not matters for me but for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what plans he has for the speedy relief of traffic congestion at Victoria Gate, Hyde Park, W.2, in peak hours.

:I have received no grant application for a scheme at this point, but the congestion here should be considerably reduced by the work which I hope to see carried out between Hyde Park Corner and Marble Arch.

:How long is it going to take? Is my right hon. Friend aware that this junction is getting worse and worse every week, and before any large- scale improvement can be carried out there will be an almost complete standstill?

:It is a difficult point. My hon. Friend will gather from my answer that the promoting authority in this case is not my Department but the local authority, and I have, in fact, received no application in respect of it.

:Is it not the case, as the right hon. Gentleman has said, that the real remedy is an improvement from Hyde Park Corner to Marble Arch—and I am inclined to agree—but is it correct that no decision has been reached about that? I have the impression that the London County Council was favourable to it?

:The London County Council has been helpful about the proposal, which I am anxious to proceed with, but there are still one or two points to be cleared up.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will use his powers under Section 6 of the Transport Act, 1947, to refer to the Central Transport Consultative Committee the question of the adequate heating of trains during the winter months.

No, Sir. It is open to users of the British Transport Commission's services to make representations to the Transport Users' Consultative Committees in regard to any matter affecting the services and facilities provided by the British Transport Commission. I suggest that any particular cases which have been brought to the notice of my hon. Friend should be referred to the consultative committees concerned.

On a point of order. Is it usual, when an hon. Member who is a lady asks a Question, to answer "Sir"?

Yes. The Minister's answer, like all speeches in this House, is directed to me, and I belong to that sex.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that while that course may be open to individual members of the public —and certainly I have followed it—it is not open to train crews, who are very concerned at the lack of comfort afforded to the public? It is at their request that I have, not without difficulty, placed this Question on the Paper.

Of course, so far as working conditions affecting train crews are concerned—[HON. MEMBERS: "That is not the point."] The temperatures under which they work—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—I should regard as some of their working conditions. [HON. MEMBERS: "That is not the question."] If my hon. Friend has passengers in mind—[HON. MEMBERS: "Yes."]—passengers who are affected can make representations to the Transport Users' Consultative Committee. So far as the views of train crews are concerned, I think the unions are quite capable of looking after them.

Is not the case that the hon. Lady is making that train crews are concerned about the comfort or the lack of comfort of passengers? Is it not possible for them—as, I am sure, they have done on previous occasions—to go to their local departmental councils and other bodies and raise the matter through that institutional machinery?

:I should not have thought there was any difficulty in their so doing. They do, of course, raise many questions in that way most helpfully.

:On behalf of the passengers, may I ask whether some research could not be made into the possibilities of thermostatic control? Sleeper trains often start off cold and then become boiling hot; sometimes the passengers freeze at night in spite of the heating arrangements. I think it is time, in these scientific days, for research to be undertaken to find some method of controlling the heat, and a system which would allow for controlled fluctuations of the degree of heat.

:I understand that the British Transport Commission, under the modernisation scheme, is looking into the details of the design of rolling stock, which, of course, includes heating arrangements.

Will my right hon. Friend look at this matter again? Can he really imagine aged ladies who are obliged to travel in unheated trains undertaking all that correspondence through the usual channels, as they are called? Will my right hon. Friend look into the matter and get something done about it?

I am anxious that travelling conditions should be as comfortable as possible, but this is, in the first place, a matter for the ordinary management of the British Transport Commission, under which full arrangements are made for ventilating complaints.