asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air if he will give consideration to discharging 2726889 Leading Aircraftman D. L. Pearson on the grounds that the condition of his feet makes it undesirable that he should be retained; and if he is aware that this man has had operations to both feet at the Woodlands Hospital for Cripples and has never been fit enough to play games.

This airman was assessed Grade I in May, 1954, by a Ministry of Labour and National Service medical board. He has twice been medically examined by Royal Air Force doctors and found fit for service in any part of the world. The medical authorities consider his disability to be slight and not likely to be aggravated by his remaining in the Service.

It is true that Leading Aircraftman Pearson recently suffered from slight inflammation over the insteps. I understand however that this can result from wearing boots which rub or are too tightly laced and is quite common. I can see no justification for discharging Leading Aircraftman Pearson on medical grounds.

Does the Under-Secretary not appreciate the difficulty of the public in understanding why a man with all this disability is kept in the forces and others who can perform tremendous feats of endurance are allowed out? Is he not aware that he will hear more of this case and of the other two to which I referred on Monday night, because it is about time that the public were shown that they were being hoodwinked about many of these matters?

This man's medical category is A.4.G.2, which means that he is fit for duty anywhere in the world. He told the doctor only last week that he had had no difficulty with his feet in the Service and that he had no complaints and could not understand what all the fuss was about.

Mr. John Hall.

Is the Minister aware that I have correspondence from the father and from the airman——

Order. Mr. John Hall.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air if he is aware that the problem of educating the children of those serving in the Royal Air Force both at home and abroad is becoming a matter of increasing concern and often of heavy expense to the parents; and what proposals he has to deal with this problem.

Yes, Sir. My noble Friend is discussing this problem with the other Ministers concerned, but I regret that it is not yet possible to make a statement.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in addition to the problem facing those serving overseas, the children of officers and men at home face a very considerable handicap by reason of the constant change of station when they are posted, and that very often they are additionally handicapped also by being absorbed into local village schools which are already overcrowded? Will he, with his colleagues, regard it as a matter of the greatest urgency?

I well understand the problem, and I have the greatest sympathy with my hon. Friend, but I am afraid that I cannot say more at present. The matter concerns a number of Departments besides the Air Ministry and the Government will announce their decision as soon as possible.

Is it not a fact that the Select Committee on the Army and Air Force Act, which reported last year, drew attention to this very urgent problem? May we take it that the consideration which the Under-Secretary says is now being given has followed the recommendations of that Select Committee?

Yes, Sir. We are giving it all the urgency that the Select Committee gave it.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I raised this matter at great length two years ago on the Army Estimates and that an Inter-Departmental Committee was set up from the Ministry of Education and the War Office but that nothing whatever seems to have been done about it?

Will the Minister take special note of an article in last Sunday's issue of "The People," in page 15, which, I think, he will find of interest?

I will look it up.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what consideration has been given in recent months to the provision of helicopter passenger stations on or near the River Thames in London; and what progress has been made in respect to short- and long-term plans for the development of this form of travel.

I am discussing with the Port of London Authority and the London County Council the possibility of constructing a landing platform on the Thames for use by helicopters when the South Bank Air Station ceases to be available.

During this summer, British European Airways expect to operate services between London Airport and the South Bank and also between Gatwick (where the helicopters are based) and London Airport. Silver City Airways Ltd. have been given conditional approval to operate helicopter services between Ferryfield and Ostend, Calais, Le Touquet, and Boulogne when this becomes commercially practicable in the company's judgment.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that, with the progress being made in the development of helicopters, the information he has now given will give some impetus to others to look into this question?

I am anxious that the helicopter should be developed as quickly as possible. As I think the hon. Gentleman, who knows a good deal about this matter, appreciates, we are dependent for large-scale future development on the development of a reliable twin-engined machine.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many local authorities have sought advice from his Department concerning inter-city helicopter services; and what assistance is given to them in this connection.

About 80 local authorities have sought advice, most of them about the reservation of suitable sites for future air stations. All the available information has been given about site requirements. Eight authorities have specially mentioned their interest in inter-city helicopter services, and as this is a matter for the airline operators, British European Airways and the British Independent Air Transport Association have been informed of these inquiries.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the annual net revenue from charges levied on passengers departing from State airports in this country since the date of the original imposition of these charges.

Since the charge which is levied on the air lines was introduced on 1st May, 1952, it has produced in net revenue some £183,000 for the 11 months of the financial year ended 31st March, 1953; £239,000 for the year 1953 to 1954; and £267,000 for 1954 to 1955.

Is not this a very annoying charge, which should be abolished as soon as possible?

I think it is reasonable that when elaborate and necessary landing ground facilities are provided at the expense of the taxpayers, a charge should be made for at any rate part of the services so rendered.

Why cannot the charge be made with the usual landing charges which are only for airline companies? Why should it be a special charge for passengers to pay?

It is not, as I think the hon. Gentleman knows, specially made for the passengers to pay. As I said in my original answer, it is levied on the airlines, and the methods by which the airlines seek to recover it are, of course, their business.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the charge in Britain in this connection is the lowest in Europe?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend, but, without reference, I would hesitate to agree even with him.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will now abolish the charges levied at State airports on passengers departing for destinations outside the United Kingdom.

No, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, apart from the Iron Curtain countries, there is only one country in the world besides this country which imposes these charges, and that they are a constant source of irritation to tourists visiting this country and have been a particular source of complaint on the part of Americans?

They need not be a source of irritation to the passengers if the arrangement which is now being widely adopted by airlines is followed and the collection of this charge is made at the same time as the fare is paid.

What is the cost to the taxpayers of the maintenance of, say, London Airport, and how much of it is met by this charge?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would put that question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what proposals he is at present considering for the relief of traffic congestion on the main road through Newcastle-under-Lyme.

The line of the proposed Preston-Birmingham motor road lies to the west of Newcastle-under-Lyme, and this road, when completed, will do much to relieve the traffic congestion in the town. I cannot at present add more to the statement I made on 2nd February last about the expanded road programme.

Is the Minister aware of the great urgency of pressing forward with this project, because it is now quite impossible to cope satisfactorily with the peak traffic of 700 vehicles an hour now passing through the ancient Borough of Newcastle-under-Lyme? Will he, therefore, press forward with the necessary diversion of traffic as quickly as possible?

I think the hon. Gentleman has in mind a particular project which is not referred to in his Question, but I agree that there is a serious traffic problem there, as in many other places, and I am anxious to tackle it and them as quickly as possible.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what mileage and proportion of trunk roads in Staffordshire have dual carriageways; and to what extent these will be increased when present schemes have been completed.

7.8 miles or 4.8 per cent., Sir. A further 5.3 miles of dual carriageways will be built or started this year, and a further 7.7 miles are at present proposed for the following three years, raising the percentage from 4.8 per cent. to 12.8 per cent. In addition, 43 miles of the Birmingham-Preston motor road, which, of course, will have dual carriageways, will be within the County of Stafford.

While we in Staffordshire welcome the schemes, is the Minister aware that even when they are completed Staffordshire will still be worse off than most other counties as far as dual carriageways are concerned? [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Certainly. As Staffordshire is, of course, one of the most important counties, will the Minister therefore pay attention to the need for increasing the number of dual carriageways?

I think that both the comparisons which the hon. Gentleman made only illustrate how invidious comparisons proverbially are.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will make an up-to-date statement on his proposed capital expenditure on roads and bridges; and state the main proposals and areas.

In my statement on 2nd February, I informed the House of the Government expenditure on road construction and improvement which I hope to authorise in the four years from 1955 to 1959, and I gave details of some of the larger schemes. I am unable to add to that statement at present.

When grants are authorised but not spent during a given year, do they go back to the Treasury to be reissued in the next programme, or is every programme in addition to a previous or the original programme? It is not very clear from the figures.

I cannot answer on that somewhat detailed matter of accounting without notice, but it is very often the case that if I am in a position to authorise a grant and the promoting authority is not in a position to go ahead the grant passes to some other scheme, promoted, perhaps, by some other authority which is in a position to go ahead.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will take steps to have adequate street lighting placed in the vicinity of all zebra crossings.

I cannot compel lighting authorities to provide street lighting, but I hope they will do all they can to ensure that street lighting near zebra crossings is as good as possible.

Will my right hon. Friend draw the attention of the local authorities to the many zebra crossings where the street lighting is noticeable by its absence, which constitutes a great danger, as motorists approaching the zebra crossings are not able to see whether people are on the kerbs?

I will certainly do what I can, but, as I think my hon. Friend appreciates, except on trunk roads street lighting is the sole responsibility of the local authorities, and even on trunk roads my responsibility is confined to the making of a 50 per cent. grant. I can encourage but cannot give instructions.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether his attention has been drawn to a case where fatal consequences arose from misunderstanding on the part of a pedestrian as to the rights of a person stepping off an island half-way across a zebra crossing in front of an approaching vehicle; and whether he will take steps to make the effect of his regulations on this matter clear and free from all doubt.

Yes, Sir. I greatly regret the accident in question, but the regulations are quite clear. Where a zebra crossing is divided by a central refuge, the pedestrian has precedence on one section at a time only. Where there is no such refuge his precedence relates to the crossing as a whole. This is sound sense, and I am grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend for giving me this opportunity to make the point better known.

May we take it from that that a pedestrian stepping off a pavement is under an obligation to look for traffic before he steps out in front of it?

I think that is broadly right, but it is put extremely clearly in the Highway Code.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider making a broadcast on this subject as there is great confusion in the minds of the people?

As I said in my main answer, I hope that my hon. and gallant Friend's Question and my answer may be noticed outside. The matter is also dealt with in the Highway Code, of which some millions, I am glad to say, have been circulated. Whilst I am anxious that the position should be improved as much as possible, I am not sure that a broadcast would necessarily help.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what proportion of accidents he estimates occur on recognised black spots in road layout.

Accident statistics compiled from police records indicate that about 2 per cent. of all road accidents are attributable to road defects, but I regard black spots as places where the incidence of road accidents, from whatever cause, is abnormally high. I am afraid I have no statistics relating to these.

But is it not already known that an unduly high proportion of these accidents are accidents which take place on zebra crossings, which make zebra crossings black spots?

I regard all accidents as unduly high, but I do not share the hon. and gallant Gentleman's determined opposition to the zebra crossing. I believe that it has been extremely useful.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the reason for the continued delay in introducing the experimental one-way system in Great Portland Street; when a start may now be expected; and in which direction it is intended that traffic will flow.

There was some difficulty about the alternative routes for buses, but I am glad to say that the Commissioner of Police has informed me that one-way working was introduced experimentally in Great Portland Street on Tuesday, 21st June, in a southbound direction from Devonshire Street to Margaret Street.

Is the Minister aware that I am glad that a start has been made at last since I first put this Question on the Order Paper? Will he consider extending this system over the whole length of Great Portland Street and, possibly, into the streets which cross it at right angles?

I will certainly consider that, but the hon. Member will have gathered from my main answer that this system on the present length of street has been introduced experimentally. I should like to watch the experiment before deciding to extend it.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is aware of the dangerous nature of the cross-roads between Balls Pond Road and Southgate Road and Mildmay Park, Islington; and whether he will take steps to deal with the matter.

I am informed by the Islington Metropolitan Borough Council, which is the highway authority for these roads, that it has included a scheme for the provision of traffic signals at this junction in its estimates for the financial year 1955-56 and hopes that tenders will be obtained before the end of 1955. I have approved grant in respect of this installation.

Is the Minister aware that that decision will be very greatly appreciated in view of the number of serious accidents which have occurred in the past at this spot?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is aware that the road from Kincardine Bridge to Milnathort is almost exclusively used by through traffic and is, in the absence of a nearer Forth crossing, the principal through road to the north; and whether he will assume responsibility for this part of the road as a trunk road.

I am aware that this road carries a substantial amount of through traffic. That is why it is classified as a Class I road. A preliminary examination of the 1954 traffic census discloses that whilst traffic on the Kincardine Bridge—Kinross road A.977 has increased considerably, traffic on the parallel trunk road A.91 between Stirling and Milnathort ha3 decreased. A detailed examination of the census for this area is being made; until it has been completed I cannot say whether any alteration in the status of A.977 and A.91 would be justified.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the congestion on the ferry takes place this road becomes immediately a direct road from the A.1 road to the North of Scotland and that there is very little domestic traffic on it? Is he aware that it is almost entirely used by through traffic and that if any road in the country should be a national road it should be this part of this road? Is he aware that industrialists in the area feel that the responsibility should be assumed by the right hon. Gentleman and that I hope that he will give early consideration to the matter?

I think I have explained that this is a matter of whether this road or another should be a trunk road, and I must reserve decision until the census figures, which give the facts, are examined.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will make an up-to-date statement on his capital allocation for the development and modernisation of British Railways.

I do not make any allocation of capital for this purpose, but I would refer the hon. Member to the announcement made by the British Transport Commission on 5th May in regard to the main projects expected to begin during 1955 and 1956 under its plan for the modernisation and re-equipment of British Railways.

Should not an announcement of this kind be made by the Minister in this House? Is it not public finance that is being used? Should it not therefore be a concern of the elected representatives of the people? Now that the railways are beginning to get over the difficulties, will the Minister not make a special appeal to all grades, so that we may attain not only modernised railways but the best results from those engaged in the service?

I think the Gentleman misunderstands the position. This capital is raised on the market with the assistance of a Treasury guarantee. Subject to the approval of the Chancellor and myself, it is the responsibility of the British Transport Commission to carry out the development of its enterprise. I should very much hesitate to interfere more than the Statute compels me to do with its discharge of its responsibilities.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether his attention has been drawn to the suggestion in the current report of the Electricity Consultative Council for the North of Scotland that an experiment should be made with battery rail-cars on one or more of the branch lines in the North of Scotland where it has recently been decided to discontinue ordinary passenger trains; and whether he will give a general direction to the British Transport Commission to consider this proposal.

I am informed by the British Transport Commission that this proposal has been considered very carefully in consultation with the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board, and a great deal of detailed investigation undertaken. The Scottish Area Board has decided that it would not be justified, in present circumstances, in going on with this experiment particularly as the potential running and maintenance costs of battery coaches would make little difference to the economics of branch lines.

Does my right hon. Friend really consider it an economic proposition to keep a number of branch lines open in the North of Scotland for goods traffic and to allow no passenger traffic upon them at all? Has my right hon. Friend's attention been drawn to recent experiments in Germany with battery rail-cars, which have been extremely successful and have competed economically with diesel engined cars? Will he reconsider the matter?

It is impossible to generalise on the use of branch lines for goods only. There are clearly cases in which the line should be kept open for goods traffic only, but that depends upon the facts. As to the method of propulsion to be used on rails, that is primarily a matter for the British Transport Commission itself.

In view of my right hon. Friend's extremely unsatisfactory reply, I propose to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what increase of vehicles he estimates will be on the roads by 1965.

It is impossible to state a precise figure so far ahead. I am working on the basis that the increase will be very large.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that the Government's present plans will be able to deal with the increased traffic on the roads, and will he not try to get a bigger and better scheme for road improvement?

Those are interesting questions, but I do not think they arise from the Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the number of transport units so far disposed of and the number of vehicles concerned under the Transport Act, 1953.

Fifteen thousand six hundred and sixty-eight vehicles have been sold, 15,266 in 5,410 units and 402 in three companies.

Do not these figures confirm once again that the average number of vehicles in each unit is very small and that sales can only continue if units are sold in very small lots? Do not the results, showing a complete failure to dispose of vehicles in large units, confirm that if sales continue there will be a break-up of the organisation of British Road Services through the dislocation of trunk services?

I have already answered the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary question on the several previous occasions he has put it. The second part is hypothetical.

In view of the fact that the situation has settled down, is the Minister not prepared to have an inquiry into the whole question and satisfy himself that on the ground of efficiency it will be much better to have an integrated service over the whole country and to keep that service intact?

I think that, for the moment, the right hon. Gentleman overlooks the fact that this matter was most closely and lengthily investigated by the House not long ago.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give a straight answer whether or not it is the fact that if he continues to sell these vehicles he can only sell by allowing them to go in ones, twos and threes, and that that results in a complete break-up of trunk services which "The Times" this morning said have been a great contribution by the British Transport Commission to the transport of the country?

The hon. Member cannot put a hypothetical question by describing a hypothesis as a fact.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the total amount raised to date by the Transport Levy; and when, in accordance with the procedure provided in Section 15 of the Transport Act, 1953, he proposes to terminate this charge.

£7,830,747 up to the end of May, 1955. I am not yet in a position to determine the date of cessation of the Levy.

Will the Minister confirm that the amount raised by the Levy is adequate to meet the loss so far incurred by the sales of the vehicles? What is the sense, therefore, of having this tax on industry which is only resulting in a further capital loss to the British Transport Commission if the sales continue and which, at the same time, is incurring the Commission in a loss of revenue?

I have given the hon. Member the facts for which he asked. The inferences to be drawn from them are not a matter suitable for argument at Question Time.

On a matter of fact, is the right hon. Gentleman going to the Conservative Transport Committee tonight to explain his failure to sell these lorries? If so, can we have an assurance that what he tells his own colleagues in secrecy upstairs will be communicated to the whole House later?

The first part of the hon. Member's question sounded hypothetical, and the second like a request for an invitation.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many driving and traffic examiners are employed by his Department; and how many are engaged full-time on enforcement of Part I of the Road and Rail Traffic Act, 1933.

Six hundred and twenty-nine and 76, Sir.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that this is an inadequate number of enforcement officers in view of the increasing breaches of the law which are taking place at present, with excessively long hours worked and inadequate rest periods?

I cannot accept the general imputations which, not for the first time, the hon. Member seeks to make against this industry. I have arranged for some increase in enforcement staff and I am more satisfied than I was.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will alter his regulations to provide for a stricter standard of windscreen design in order to eliminate the danger to road safety inherent in the modern windscreens which shatter and become opaque when struck by stones, with a view to effecting a remedy.

The problem of the shattering of toughened glass windscreens, which is not always caused by stones, was considered a year or two ago by a Committee of the British Standards Institution, on whose behalf experiments were made by the Road Research Laboratory. As a result, in May last year the Institution amended their specifications of "Safety Glass for Land Transport," to which the manufacturers of toughened glass in this country work, and glass made to the new specification provides a great degree of visibility when shattered.

Are we to take it from that answer that cars manufactured from a certain date are not subject to the risk to which those about which the Question is asked are subjected? Consequently, may buyers feel safe in buying cars which have been made after a certain date?

As I think my hon. Friend knows, on the whole windscreen glass is made either of laminated glass or toughened glass. Both have certain disadvantages, but I can assure my hon. Friend that the majority of the cars which are now being built and coming on to the market are fitted with the better type of toughened glass to which I referred in my main answer.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will raise the age limit so that all children attending school can travel at half-fare.

No, Sir. This is a matter for the appropriate fare-fixing body in each case, except that Parliament recently enacted that in the case of municipal transport undertakings such concessions would only be granted to children under 15, or to full-time scholars up to 18 only when travelling to and from school.

Will the hon. Gentleman say whether it is the policy of the Government to encourage the extension of these cheap facilities to all schoolchildren?

I do not think it is the business of the Government to seek to dictate to a fairly elaborate system of fare-fixing organisations, which this House has itself set up both for rail and road. They are perfectly competent to deal with the applications which come before them, and I do not think I should interfere.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many applicants now await driving tests in the London area; and what the corresponding figure was last year.

The figures are, 39,851 and 27,744, Sir. Over the same period the number of examiners in the area increased from 105 to 142.

Is it not a lamentable state of affairs that the number of people awaiting tests appears to have increased by 50 per cent.? What is the Minister doing to reduce the additional traffic jam which he has created. Will he consider appointing part-time examiners to help reduce this growing list?

What I am doing is revealed in the last part of my original answer, increasing the number of examiners.

In view of the congestion on our roads, would it not be a good thing to slow down these tests?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the quarterly number of accidents involving motor lorries before May, 1953, and since that date.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to what extent street accidents increased in the Metropolitan area during the recent period when road traffic substantially increased owing to the railway strike; what was the approximate increase in the volume of this traffic; what information has been gathered from experience in that period which could further increase road safety measures; and, in particular, what variation in traffic and in accidents were registered in High Road, Leytonstone, and Lea Bridge Road, Leyton, during the same period.

I have only statistics in respect of such of these accidents as involved personal injury. As these figures are long and complicated, I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the quarterly figures from March, 1951, to March, 1955.

Is the Minister aware that certain private road haulage firms are employing drivers conditional on their being prepared to work regular 86 hours per week, that there are other private firms which are paying their drivers on a mileage basis, and what is the Minister's view about the obvious dangers involved?

In so far as any breach of the law is, in the hon. Gentleman's view, being committed, if he furnishes particulars the matter can be investigated. I do not think that the wider general question which he raises arises out of the accident figures that I have given.

Following are the figures:

The Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis and my Department are studying the lessons to be drawn from conditions existing during the railway strike, including the effect upon accidents, but it will be some little time before conclusions can be drawn from the information collected. There was some increase in accidents, and this was most marked among pedal cyclists. A number of traffic counts was taken at peak periods during the strike and showed increases which varied from 7 to 70 per cent. in the inner area to as much as 170 per cent. on some of the radial routes outside the central area. I am sending the hon. Member some information about traffic and accidents in High Road, Leytonstone, and Lea Bridge Road, Leyton.

When does the Minister estimate that he will be in a position to publish this report in view of the very great significance and importance of the investigation?

I did not say a report in the formal sense was being prepared, but if, after my investigation of this with my right hon. and gallant Friend the Home Secretary, the hon. Gentleman has a question on any particular aspect to put, we will do our best to answer it.

In view of the Minister's statement that there has been a great increase in accidents to cyclists outside the Central London area, will he recommend cyclists to use the cycling tracks which are provided on most of these roads, because it is very difficult for motorists to avoid them when it is dark?

I think the hon. Gentleman misunderstood my original answer. I fully agree, none the less, with the general inference which he drew from it.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will give a list of positions to which he makes direct appointments in the transport industry which carry a salary of £2,000 and over, giving the salaries in each case.

Particulars of these appointments, including the salaries attaching to them, were given in the annual White Paper "Public Boards" issued in December last.

Does that return refer only to the British Transport Commission, and, if so, and as the Question asks about the transport industry, can the Minister give some particulars of salaries in private industry?

The Question, of course, relates to appointments made by me.

Can my hon. Friend say how many appointments carry this salary and how many were made when right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite were in power?

If my hon. Friend will count the figures in the White Paper he will get the figure. The dates appear about particular appointments, but this is a continuing process.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when his inspectors of inland waterways last reported on the condition of the Kennett and Avon Canal; and if he will place a copy of this report in the Library of the House.

I have no inspectors of inland waterways.

As my right hon. Friend's Department cannot, unfortunately and surprisingly, provide Parliament with expert information on the sad state of affairs in the Kennett and Avon Canal, will my right hon. Friend please arrange for an impartial inquiry to establish the reason why the canal is in a bad state and whether the British Transport Commission is fulfilling its obligation?

The question whether the Commission is fulfilling its legal obligation is one on which, in the circumstances of which my hon. Friend is aware, perhaps I ought not to express an opinion. As to Parliament obtaining further information, I have already informed my hon. Friend that a project relating to this canal may be in the next British Transport Commission Bill.

But is it not a fact that the way in which the Transport Commission deals with this canal by no means adds to its reputation?

That is largely a matter of opinion. I can well understand that people living in the neighbourhood of a very attractive canal of this sort can feel strongly about it, but the Commission is, after all, a transport undertaking, and its main duty is to assess the value of this canal and other canals as a means of transport.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the total canal mileage in Lancashire; and how much of this the British Transport Commission has recommended to him should be closed down.

A total of 293 miles, of which 196 miles are under the control of the British Transport Commission. Forty-six and a half miles, including 111 miles controlled by the Commission, are already closed to navigation and the Commission's Bill now before Parliament proposes to close a further 7¼ miles. The Commission has made no recommendation to me for any further closures.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will introduce legislation to promote or encourage the setting up of public or private corporations composed of interested parties to take over canals which the British Transport Commission are prepared to offer for purchase.

No, Sir.

If the Transport Commission goes to the Minister with a request to be relieved of several hundreds of miles of uneconomic canals, has he given careful consideration as to how these canals should be looked after by some other body?

That is, of course, a hypothetical question, but the general question of the possibility of the purchase of such canals as are not required for transport purposes was dealt with by me in a reply which I gave last week to my hon. Friend the Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro), to which I would refer the hon. Gentleman.

Before any further canals are closed, particularly in Lancashire—this refers more to the previous Question—could my right hon. Friend give an assurance that he will be prepared to receive representations from angling interests, which are very much concerned about all this?

I am always ready to receive representations from anybody who is interested in anything.

Will the Minister recognise that the British Transport Com- mission is not completely and wholly responsible for the position of canals in this country, and that a considerable added expenditure could be placed upon it if it were required to do some of the things that are suggested in this House?

I think the hon. Gentleman will have heard me say in replying to a previous Question that the Transport Commission was necessarily concerned with the transport importance of these canals. In answer to the first part of his supplementary question, he will see from my main answer to this Question that a considerable mileage of canals in Lancashire is not the property of the Commission.

asked the Minister of Defence whether, since many branch railway lines are being closed, thereby involving long and expensive journeys by bus, he will give instructions that travel warrants to members of the forces should in future include bus as well as train fares.

Service men who have to pay bus fares in the circumstances set out in the Question already have these refunded to them, and I am not aware that this system gives rise to hardship.

asked the Minister of Defence what progress has been made in the Government's study of defence organisation occasioned by the strategical and tactical implications of the use of nuclear weapons in warfare.

These matters are under continuous study. I do not think that a further statement can usefully be made at present.

Was not the House promised during the Service Estimates debates that there would be some indication from the Government in May as to their policy, and has the right hon. and learned Gentleman taken notice of the exercise "Carte Blanche" which has just been completed in Germany, which dis- closes that very serious and almost revolutionary changes will be necessary in tactics? When are we likely to hear from the Government about changes in Service strategy and tactics?

I can only promise the right hon. Gentleman that I am aware of the very weighty matters involved, and as soon as I think a statement can usefully be made, I will make it.

Will that statement include reference to the Civil Defence side, or must we have another statement from the Government on that aspect through the Home Secretary?

I am not saying that a statement will be made. I am saying that if a statement can usefully be made, it will be, and if it is one on the whole question of the defence organisation, as affected by the implications set out in the Question, obviously it must include the matter to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred.

May I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman if he is aware that Field Marshal Montgomery made a recent public speech—[An HON. MEMBER: "He is always making speeches."] Why not, if he wants to? He is as much entitled to make a speech as anybody here. That is my opinion, anyhow. Did not Field Marshal Montgomery make a speech in the course of which he indicated that many changes are required in the defence system of the West? May I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman whether any submissions of that kind have been made to N.A.T.O.? If so, could the public be informed? Is it not time that we were enlightened about these matters?

I do not think that that supplementary question arises out of this Question. If the right hon. Gentleman will put a Question on the Order Paper, I will try to answer it.

Would the Minister of Defence take into account not only the defence exercises in Europe but also the civil defence exercises which have just taken place in the United States, and the negative conclusions which have been reached as to the possibility of civil defence?

I certainly think that those matters have to be taken into account.

asked the Minister of Defence whether, in the light of the acquisition of sovereign status by Western Germany, he will examine the rôle of Her Majesty's Forces in that country, with a view to recategorising their service as overseas service as opposed to home service.

Service with the Second Tactical Air Force in Germany is already treated as overseas service by the R.A.F. With regard to the other Services, the balance of advantage from their point of view lies with maintaining the present position.

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May I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman whether, in view of the changed status of Germany recently announced, it is not time that the troops in Germany were regarded as part of an overseas force? What is the reason for retaining them in the Home Command except for the purposes of economy?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As I have asked the next Question, is it in order for the right hon. Gentleman to put a supplementary question on Question No. 37?

The Minister can answer the question if the right hon. Gentleman wishes to do so.

I will answer the right hon. Gentleman, Sir. I adhere to what I have said. I think that the present position is of benefit to the forces and that should be the primary consideration.

asked the Minister of Defence what arrangements have now been made, in conjunction with the Minister of Education, to improve the facilities provided for the education of children of serving members of Her Majesty's Forces, both at home and overseas.

The facilities for primary education provided by local educational authorities in the United Kingdom are available to Service parents. I understand that the education provided by Service primary schools overseas is generally regarded as satisfactory but a definite improvement has recently been effected in the ratio of teachers to pupils at Service schools abroad. The problem of facilities for secondary education for Service children is one which my Service colleagues and I are closely studying with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Education.

May I ask my right hon. and learned Friend whether it will be possible to reach a conclusion in this matter, which has been under consideration for a considerable time and is causing grave concern to all members of the forces and to those who take an interest in them?

I am aware that this is an important matter which is causing serious concern. I am also aware that it has been under consideration for a long time.

I can assure my hon. Friend that I will do everything I can to see that a conclusion is reached.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman bear in mind that this causes anxiety particularly among the wives of Service men, and that unless he can keep the wives contented he is not likely to have contented Armed Forces?

I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman.

May I ask my right hon. and learned Friend whether, in considering this problem, he will bear in mind the fact that a large number of Army families have to undertake additional expense in order to send their children to boarding schools, which would not normally be the case were they not serving in the forces? Could that be considered in connection with any allowance that is made?

I agree with my hon. Friend that it is a very relevant factor.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman remember that some time ago the Minister of Education was asked whether he would introduce legislation to deal with this matter and that he said he hoped there would be found a quicker method of dealing with it than by legislation? Is it not rather distressing, therefore, to find that still nothing seems to come out of this consideration?

I think the hon. Gentleman will know that there are certain difficulties involved. These have been the reason for the delay.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs why Her Majesty's Government have not yet ratified the Austrian State Treaty; and when it is proposed so to do.

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Before my right hon. Friend replies, may I say, in view of the business before the House today, that I would not seek to press him for an answer to the second part of my Question.

Before a Treaty is submitted to Her Majesty for ratification it is essential to ensure that Her Majesty has the necessary powers to give effect to all the provisions of the Treaty. Certain provisions of the Austrian Treaty call for enabling legislation designed to ensure this, and the Second Reading of a Bill for this purpose is to be moved this afternoon. The Austrian State Treaty will be submitted to Her Majesty for ratification as soon as this Bill has received the Royal Assent.

May I take it from my right hon. Friend, therefore, that this delay has been occasioned by the advent of a General Election and the working of the administrative machine rather than by any change in policy?

There has been no delay in this case. We have proceeded as fast as we could to get the enabling Bill through.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is aware that a Treaty between China and Indonesia was signed in April last dealing with the question of dual nationality; if he has considered the official pronouncements of Mr. Chou En-lai respecting this Treaty; and if Her Majesty's Government will now propose a similar treaty between this country and China.

My right hon. Friend has seen the text of the Treaty and of the subsequent exchange of Notes between the Chinese and Indonesian Prime Ministers which was published on 15th June. He has also considered the statements made by Mr. Chou En-lai respecting this Treaty. This Treaty has not yet come into force. Before considering whether similar provisions would be appropriate to the complex and quite different circumstances of this country and those of its dependent territories most likely to be affected, it would be wise to observe how the Treaty works out in practice.

Meanwhile, is the Minister not aware that this problem of dual nationality is already exercising the minds of a number of people in the Colonies, causing considerable embarrassment, and, if there is a solution of this problem arrived at between China and Indonesia, cannot we at least investigate the possibility of the same kind of solution being applied at least to our Colonies?

I am aware of the problem, but it is important not only to recognise the principle but to see that the practice agreed upon is the correct one. The hon. Gentleman probably knows the history of this matter, that after the Treaty was published there were certain doubts about the imprecise nature of some of its provisions; hence the Notes between the Indonesian Prime Minister and Mr. Chou En-lai. Let us wait to see how this works out in practice.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the attention of Her Majesty's Government has been drawn to the European plan to aid the depressed areas of Southern Europe, recently published by the European League for Economic Co-operation, which was recently referred to the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation: and if he will state the Government's policy in relation to this proposal.

Yes, Sir. The Plan published by the European League for Economic Co-operation proposes substantial financial aid in the form of gifts and loans to Southern Europe from the more developed countries of Western and Northern Europe. Her Majesty's Government are not unmindful of the needs of Southern Europe and are actively cooperating with the countries concerned, in the appropriate international organisations of which they are members, to facilitate this development. Her Majesty's Government's resources are, however, limited, and we already have to bear a heavy burden of existing commitments, including those of development in the United Kingdom itself and in the other countries of the Commonwealth.

Is the Minister aware that, apart from the political and moral case for helping our fellow Europeans, there is a good economic case, in that the supply of goods and services envisaged in this "Marshall Plan," as it were, may well help the unemployment situation in Northern Ireland; and also build up a reservoir of orders behind our engineering industry which, admittedly, is extended in these days?

It is a fact that this matter is at present under consideration by the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe. It is to make recommendations on this matter to the next plenary session which will be held, I think, in March, 1956.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Economic Committee of the Council of Europe is also carrying out a detailed investigation of this problem, and will he hear its recommendations in mind when they come to hand?

Yes. Sir, most certainly.