asked the Minister of Supply how far the same tests and principles are applied to lubricating oils from all sources when approval is being considered by his Advisory Panel on heavy duty engine oils.

The same tests and principles are applied by the Advisory Panel to all oils tested irrespective of the source of supply.

Will my right hon. Friend give an undertaking that if there are new sources of supply this procedure will be followed in exactly the same way?

Yes, Sir; certainly.

asked the Minister of Supply what action he is taking to maintain the production of aircraft at Armstrong-Whitworth, Coventry, and to avoid the dispersal of the highly skilled engineers at present employed by that firm in connection with contracts issued by him.

asked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware of the existence of redundancy at the Armstrong-Whitworth aircraft factory, Coventry, and that there is danger of a skilled labour force being broken up; and what steps he proposes to take to avoid this happening in connection with his contracts with this firm.

asked the Minister of Supply (1) what steps he is taking to avoid redundancy of labour at Messrs. Sir W. G. Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft Company Limited, Coventry, in view of the termination of contracts for the Hunter aircraft;

asked the Minister of Supply (1) whether he will place further short-term orders for aircraft with the Armstrong-Whitworth works in Coventry in view of the redundancy impending there;

It has long been envisaged that the production of Hunters and Sea Hawks at Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft, Limited, under contract from the Ministry of Supply would come to an end by the spring of 1956 and that the firm, if unsuccessful in securing a project of its own design, would then turn over mainly to the manufacture of Javelins under contract from the Gloster Aircraft Company. For reasons which I have already explained to the House in answer to Questions on 11th July, the Javelin programme on Royal Air Force account has been rearranged; nor have export orders been forthcoming so far in the numbers hoped for.

Although the Minister seems to have washed his hands of the matter in his rather smug reply, is he not aware that the aircraft workers of Coventry feel deeply aggrieved by the fact that while the country is short of aircraft they are being made redundant? Will he not himself take responsibility for placing some temporary work with the Armstrong-Whitworth company at Coventry in the same way as was done by his Socialist predecessor in comparable circumstances shortly after the war?

I have explained that I cannot order aircraft beyond the requirements of the Services. We are often pressed by hon. Members opposite to reduce expenditure on defence. It is not possible to reduce defence expenditure without reducing the amount of work in defence factories.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree with the principle that if the Government at any time get together a labour force of skilled persons and for some reason or other it is not needed for the purpose for which it was intended, there is a social obligation upon the Government to ensure that the workers are not dispersed?

My responsibility as Minister of Supply is to order the aircraft which the Services require and to order in the best possible way. It does not extend beyond that.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Midland newspapers are advertising in Coventry, Leamington, Rugby and Nuneaton for highly specialised workers similar to these men to go to such places as Gloucester? It does not make sense that Coventry men should be asked to leave their homes and buy new houses and take their youngsters from schools in the Midlands, and undertake all this expenditure for smaller wage packets than they were getting in Coventry.

I am aware that the Gloster aircraft company is advertising for labour. I am glad to be able to make this point clear. It is advertising a few vacancies in order to maintain the balance of its present labour force and not to expand it.

asked the Minister of Supply (1) how the cost, expressed per lb. of aircraft, of producing the Hunter aeroplane in Coventry compares with that of producing similar marks in Blackpool;

On a lb. for lb. basis the Hunters being produced at Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft, Limited, may be a little cheaper than those being produced at Blackpool. This is due almost entirely to the fact that the Blackpool factory is less fully loaded than the Armstrong-Whitworth factory at Coventry. Any transfer of work from Blackpool to Coventry would increase the cost of work left at Blackpool and would certainly not lead to any savings to public funds. The quality of the products from Blackpool and from Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft is equally satisfactory.

If it is cheaper to produce a comparable aircraft in Coventry than in Blackpool—after all, Coventry is an engineering city while Blackpool is a seaside town—is it not senseless and illogical to make men redundant in Coventry and keep other men working in Blackpool?

The Armstrong-Whitworth company is a very efficient production unit, but so is the Hawker factory at Blackpool. As I explained, to transfer work at the moment would create redundancies at Blackpool, help the Armstrong-Whitworth company for a short time only, and put a greater load on the public purse.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House the percentage rates of scrap at Coventry and Blackpool?

Not without notice.

In view of the Minister's very unsatisfactory reply, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the first possible moment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he has yet made a decision about continuing his scheme of distribution of cartridges at reduced prices for pest destruction; and what was the total cost of operating this scheme last year, including the costs of distribution by employees of his Department.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he has yet succeeded in devising a scheme for providing cartridges for shooting wood pigeons, which is fair to the gun trade and not unduly expensive in cost of distribution.

We are now considering, with the interests concerned, proposals for a revised scheme for the supply of cartridges at reduced prices for the organised shooting of wood pigeons and other harmful birds which will, I hope, provide a solution acceptable to them. The total cost of operating the scheme last year, including the cost of distribution by employees of my Department, was approximately £70,000.

Does not my hon. Friend think that this method of distributing cartridges for this purpose is rather laborious, expensive and inefficient? If his Department set its mind to it, might it not be able to think out something cheaper, simpler and fairer?

Can the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether there is any objection to the present practice of getting a farmer friend to get one's cartridges for one?

Is my hon. Friend aware that there are very many small gunsmiths all over the country who have performed a useful service in the past and whose living has been cut away by the scheme? Will he bear in mind the need for having regard to the legitimate interests of these men?

It is because we consider the present scheme not entirely satisfactory that we are now discussing an alternative.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is aware that the village of Earith, Huntingdonshire, is frequently flooded or threatened with floods owing to the Great Ouse River Board's decision not to allow water to pass through the Seven Hole Sluices into the old Bedford River; and what steps he will take to rectify this state of affairs.

I am informed that the Great Ouse River Board, which is the responsible authority, has received no complaints about flooding in the village of Earith, and that the board has never made any decision not to allow water to pass through the Seven Holes Sluice into the old Bedford River.

But can my hon. Friend explain, then, why it is that he and I have received these complaints? Bearing in mind that in fact the River Great Ouse is often flooded at the village of Earith, while the old Bedford River remains bone dry, should not the Seven Hole Sluices be open sometimes?

The sluice is open and the actual amount of opening has been the same for very many years.

Well, it is time a change was made.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he proposes to take to meet the difficulties of the fishing industry at Milford Haven arising out of the increased cost of coal.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the anticipated rise in the cost of carrying on the normal fishing activities at Lowestoft due to the increased cost of coal; and what action he will take to relieve the consequences.

The increase in the price of coal will add about £5,000 per month to the cost of operating the fishing fleet at Milford Haven and about £1,500 at Lowestoft. My right hon. Friend recognises that, in spite of some improvement in trading results last year, the owners of near and middle water vessels at these and other ports cannot bear the full cost of the increased coal prices.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there will still be four months—three months of the Recess and, probably, a month's time-lag after that—before any change in the subsidy can be effective? Will he be more specific in the welcome assurance he has given and tell us whether any change in the subsidy will take note of this four months' time-lag, so that there will be every encouragement for these ships to be put to sea?

Yes, I shall be very pleased to give the hon. Gentleman and the House the assurance that we will take into account the additional cost of the interval.

While thanking the Parliamentary Secretary for that assurance about white-fish fishing, can he give a similar assurance about drifters and the herring fleet, having regard to the fact that the white-fish fleet at Lowestoft is largely diesel-engined, while the herring drifters are more often steam-engined?

I sympathise with the hon. Gentleman's problem, but I am afraid I cannot give him that specific answer. That question is different from the one on the Order Paper, but if he will put it down, I shall be very pleased to give him the best answer I can.

Will my hon. Friend look at the question which the hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Edward Evans) has raised? It is very important, because there are many coal-burning herring drifters and we would like to know whether they will be considered in the same light.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is aware of the heavy burden of meat inspection falling upon the Acton Borough Council; and as the meat and meat products are produced for sale over a wide area of the country, if he will amend his regulations so as to permit a charge to be made for the services rendered.

My right hon. Friend is aware of Acton's difficulties, which are common to a number of local authorities. In reply to the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Accrington (Mr. H. Hynd) on 16th June.

Have any steps been taken since that reply was given to do anything in the matter? Is the position now the same as it was at that time?

I am afraid that the position is the same, because my right hon. Friend said at the time that he was unable to take any further action until he had received the report referred to.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he has now received the Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee on Slaughterhouses; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. But I am informed that my right hon. Friend will receive it this week.

In view of the rather unexpected delay in receiving the Report, can the Parliamentary Secretary give an assurance that the Government will deal with this as expeditiously as possible?

Yes, we certainly will and, if it is at all possible, we will get it published before the House rises.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether his Department will investigate the possibility of reducing the noise at present attendant upon the making of silage by machine.

There are a number of mechanised methods of making silage which are not noisy, and the control of noise is primarily a matter for the manufacturers.

Will my hon. Friend recognise that there are also ways of making silage which are extremely noisy and that some of the latest and most favoured are some of the noisiest? Will he bear in mind the utterly appalling noise made by some of these machines and refer the matter to the Agricultural Research Council?

It would not be a suitable reference for the Agricultural Research Council, but I can tell my hon. Friend that the company concerned has been informally in touch with our Department and we understand that it is now considering some means of silencing this noisy instrument.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary remember that it is the smell rather than the noise which is the nuisance?

That is very difficult to silence.

While considering this question of less noise, will my hon. Friend distribute some silent cartridges so that there can be more success in the shooting of pigeons?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, in view of the shortage of sanitary inspectors, if he will transfer to his Department the responsibility for meat inspection in the borough of Acton in view of the fact that such meat and meat products are produced for sale and consumption, over a wide area of the country and is therefore a national and not a local responsibility.

I have consulted my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, who is also concerned in this matter. We are aware of the difficulties caused by the shortage of sanitary inspectors and of the special circumstances affecting Acton. But we are satisfied that we should not be justified in seeking to relieve local authorities of their statutory responsibilities for meat inspection.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that the ratepayers of Acton are not only having to finance the national service but are finding that the public health department is unable to carry out its functions as a third of the sanitary inspectors have to be earmarked for inspecting meat, which is a priority? In view of the shortage of sanitary inspectors and the fact that this is a national and not a local responsibility, will he reconsider his attitude?

We are sympathetic towards the problem in Acton. There are really two problems; one is the shortage of sanitary inspectors and the other is the additional cost falling on Acton. My right hon. Friend has undertaken to reconsider the matter in the light of the Report on slaughterhouses, and we hope that we may have some useful results from that.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the increase in this country of deaths from cancer of the lungs revealed in the survey by the World Health Organisation, what action is being taken to deal with the situation.

The facts about the rise in mortality from lung cancer are, of course, well known. Research into the causes continues and expands, and facilities for treatment are being improved. The value of early diagnosis is constantly emphasised and, where it has been shown that workers in certain industries are prone to lung cancer, preventive action is being taken.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will state the advice given by the Standing Medical Advisory Committee in respect of the action that should be taken by him in advising the public on the relationship between cancer of the lung and heavy smoking.

asked the Minister of Health in view of the fact that the Standing Medical Advisory Committee has advised that appropriate action should be taken constantly to inform the public of the known connection between smoking and cancer of the lung and of the risks involved in heavy smoking, whether this advice has yet been considered by the Central Health Services Council; and whether he has yet received a report of its views.

I would refer the hon. Members to the reply I gave on 27th June to the hon. Member for Barking (Mr. Hastings), to which I have nothing at present to add.

Would it be reasonable to guess that the Minister has been advised that from time to time he should draw the attention of the public to the fact that there is a known association between heavy smoking and cancer of the lung; and, in view of the answer he gave to the last Question, does not he agree that we ought to look upon this matter as a method of preventing lung cancer rather than waiting until it is well established and cannot be cured easily?

There is no need to guess, because the answer to which I referred the hon. Member in fact states precisely that. The point here is that this matter has been considered only by a committee of the Central Health Services Council and not yet by the full Council itself. There is an understanding, which I am sure is right, that I should not take action on the individual reports of committees until the Council has had an opportunity to advise me.

Is not it a fact that all the more recent research shows that there is no proof whatever of any direct connection between lung cancer and smoking?

That goes much too far.

The Minister has said that he is not prepared to take any action until he has a further report. Can he tell the House when he expects the report, so that the House may know when to expect the action that he may then take?

The next meeting of the Central Health Services Council, of which the chairman is a Member of this House, is due to take place in October. There are very differing opinions on this matter. For example, the Standing Advisory Committee on Cancer and Radiotherapy advised me in almost the exact contrary sense two or three years ago.

Is the Minister aware that sometimes the relatives of victims of cancer, even more than the victims themselves, are tormented by the fear that research is held up by lack of adequate funds? Can he, therefore, give an assurance that there is nothing essential being left undone in this or any other field of cancer research because public money is not available?

That is a most important question. I gave an assurance some time ago, which I am very glad to repeat. I think the exact words were that no new and promising line of research would be held up because of lack of funds.

asked the Minister of Health whether construction of the Bracknell health centre will start in 1956.

My right hon. Friend understands that plans for this centre are at a very early stage. No details have yet been sent to the Department.

When applications are received, will the hon. Lady please give precedence to the needs of the people of Bracknell over ease of administration by the hospital board?

We will, of course, bear all these points in mind.

Is not it highly desirable that experimental health centres should be produced in small towns such as this so that we may learn the value of health centres in different places? Am I not right in saying that there have been few, if any, health centres in small towns in the past?

I do not dispute that, but this is a matter for the local authority, taking into account all the local considerations, not only of the facilities or needs of the district but also of the position and, to an extent, the desires of the general practitioners.

asked the Minister of Health what would be the additional cost of an invalid motor built to carry two people instead of one; and what would be the estimated additional cost of maintenance.

The estimated additional capital cost is £75 per machine and the estimated total additional maintenance cost for the number now in use about £500,000 a year.

Is the Minister aware that although the additional maintenance costs seem larger than one would expect, the actual capital cost of providing what is a much-needed service for injured people does not seem so large? Is he further aware that the first Question I put seems to have evoked a good deal of public support; that letters in the Press have led to a good deal of support for the belief that we should provide two-seater invalid cars in suitable cases where people are entitled to them? Will the Minister look at this again?

I am looking at the matter now. I cannot agree that the sums are small. I think that 12,000 machines at £75 each capital cost and an additional £500,000 a year for maintenance, which is £40 a machine, are substantial amounts. Previous Ministers who have examined this matter have been unable to differ from the preliminary conclusion I gave to the House, but I am ready to consider this matter all the time.

Will my right hon. Friend see whether he can be more generous with single-seat machines? There are some cases—in regard to one of which I have been in correspondence with him—where one feels that the regulations might be relaxed slightly so as to give even a one-seater machine to invalids, and will my right hon. Friend think of that first?

I have considerable sympathy with that point of view. I am sure that my right hon. Friend knows that in the case of motor cars, but not of motor tricycles, some of the qualifications have been relaxed, following a statement made two or three months ago by the then Prime Minister.

Can the Minister say whether the model now being used is the original model which, I think, was found to be unsatisfactory? If it is unsatisfactory, will he consider the provision of a two-seater model to replace it?

All that arises from this Question is the matter of figures. The costs I have used for comparison are for the latest type of motor-propelled tricycle.

asked the Minister of Health the total number of applications for loans by general practitioners wishing to develop group practices as at the latest available date; and how many of these applications have been granted.

By the middle of July this year, 160 applications for loans from the Group Practice Loans Fund had been received. Of these, 61 applications have already been approved.

Will the hon. Lady do something to improve the number of these cases, at the stage at which they are being considered, to see if more can be done to encourage the development of group practices, which seems to be a positive way to help to build up the relationship with the local authorities that we all wish to see?

Some of the applications have been rejected. The delay is not so much in the initial investigation, but once they have been approved it seems to take time for the conditions covering the loans to be fulfilled before they can be granted. This is in the hands of the general practitioners.

Does that mean that consideration will be given to many of the outstanding cases and grants given shortly?

Yes, to those which have been approved.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to encourage closer co-operation between general practitioners and the local authority health services; and whether he will promise his full support for the establishment of such health centres and group practices where this co-operation can be made effective.

My right hon. Friend takes every opportunity to encourage co-operation between general practitioners and local health authority services. Where new facilities for general practice and for local health authority services have to be provided and cooperation can be achieved between these two branches of the Service, either in a health centre or in a group practice, he would certainly endeavour to support it.

Can the hon. Lady try to encourage some positive action on these lines? It seems as if the Service here is getting jelled at the present time? Is it not time that we gave positive encouragement to this form of cooperation? Cannot it be done if we get more health centres and group practices, insisting upon effective links with local authorities' services?

On the one hand the Group Practices Committee have to satisfy themselves regarding the loans. I do not think there is any undue delay where conditions are carried out and the loans approved. We believe that health centres in the first stage are very much a matter for the local authorities after viewing their facilities and the desirability for that form of health service.

Is the hon. Lady aware that one way in which she could take positive and very useful action would be to get rid of the dearth of sick visitors for elderly people by making conditions for the visitors more attractive and the general pay better?

I am not quite sure how that question fits in with the main one, but I can assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that that arm of the Service has been steadily increased.

asked the Minister of Health what contribution is made from Government grants to the welfare services of local authorities, in the nearest convenient year; and how much of this was for the provision of aged persons' homes and accommodation for homeless families, respectively.

Apart from the financial assistance, estimated to have amounted to about £2,200,000, given where necessary by the National Assistance Board to enable residents in welfare homes to meet the minimum charges payable to the local authorities, contributions totalling £527,304 were made in 1954–55 under the National Assistance Act, 1948, and the Disabled Persons (Employment) Act, 1944. Of the latter total, £104,076 was for the provision of residential accommodation and £1,168 for the provision of temporary accommodation under the National Assistance Act.

Is the hon. Lady aware of the immense amount of work still waiting to be done in regard to the provision of homes for aged persons? Will she take into consideration the necessity of improved Government grants on a percentage basis, in the same way as percentage grants are made to local authorities for education, health and other services? In the absence of improved Government grants this very desirable service must lag behind considerably.

The point raised by the hon. Member would require legislation, because it alters the basis of the terms of agreement laid down under the Act. About 800 old people's homes have been opened since the inception of the National Health Service, and between 3,000 and 4,000 beds a year are being added. I cannot give any assurance as to the very different basis which the hon. Member suggests for the financing of schemes as between local authorities and the Treasury.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a further statement on the effect of his circular to hospitals encouraging daily visits to children's wards.

I am gratified at the progress which has been, and is being, made. I have asked my Standing Medical Advisory Committee to consider whether there is any further advice which might usefully be offered to hospitals which have not yet felt able to introduce daily visiting of children.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply and ask him whether he will consider circulating those hospitals which have not adopted this practice with the evidence, or a summary of the evidence, from those hospitals which have been practising it for a considerable time? Further, does he realise that the chief opponents, who are the sisters and nursing staffs and not the doctors, might be informed that they do not see the damage that takes place: it is the parents who see it afterwards?

In reply to the first part of that question, I would say that it is precisely that point that the Standing Medical Advisory Committee is now considering, and I think that it has accepted that proposal in principle. The figures, which perhaps the House might be interested in, show that in 1952 under 25 per cent. of hospitals allowed daily visiting of children, and the figure at the end of last year was 62½ per cent., which is two-and-a-half times as much. I am told that the position has considerably improved since then. I should make it clear that I am very grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Worthing (Brigadier Prior-Palmer) for his persistence in this matter, which is one to which I attach great importance.

asked the Minister of Health the number of persons in England and Wales who, during 1952 and 1953, were certified as of unsound mind and admitted to involuntary detention in mental hospitals on Summary Reception Orders made under Sections 14 and 16 of the Lunacy Act, 1890, as amended by the National Health Service Act, 1946; and what proportion of these were admitted directly into mental hospitals, and what proportion after an intermediary period in the mental observation ward of a general hospital.

Certified patients admitted to mental hospitals during 1952 and 1953 totalled 20,297 and 20,579, respectively. Of these totals the proportions admitted following a period of observation in a general hospital were respectively 16·92 and 15·69 per cent.

Is not my right hon. Friend aware from his figures that the majority of the large number of admissions under this Section are direct into mental hospitals and only a minority are through the intermediary mental observation wards, and is not he aware of the statement made by a number of prominent medical psychiatrists that, despite the warnings of the last Royal Commission, the certification of people suffering from temporary delirium and their consequent detention in mental hospitals is still taking place?

The exact terms of my hon. Friend's original Question asked for those who spent an intermediate period in the mental observation wards of a general hospital. There are, of course, in addition a great number of patients who spend a period in the mental observation wards of mental hospitals, which would put rather a different complexion on the figures which I have had to give him, and that is a proportion which I should like to see increased.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is considerable difference of opinion among those professionally concerned in this problem about the whole desirability of observation wards? Would the right hon. Gentleman look into this aspect of the problem and perhaps consider the setting up of a Departmental committee of inquiry?

There is a difference of opinion about almost everything in connection with this and almost every other matter in the Health Service, and I cannot undertake to set up Departmental committees into all of them.

asked the Minister of Health what shortages exist on present notifications for permanent institutional accommodation for low grade mental defectives and other mental defectives, respectively, in each region.

As the information required involves a statistical table, I will, with permission, circulate it with the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Health (1) whether he is satisfied that accommodation available for short-term care of mental defectives is fully utilised by local authorities; and if not, to what extent it is not utilised;

During 1954, 1,700 mental defectives were received for short-term care in hospitals and 461 elsewhere. Ninety local health authorities in England and Wales have power in schemes approved under Section 28 of the National Health Service Act to maintain defectives in these circumstances. No specific amendment of schemes is needed to enable them to secure removal to a hospital. No information is available about the number of places suitable for such cases at a given date or the number of authorities who in fact have initiated action.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary circularise local authorities again informing them of the value of this provision to those who have the constant care of mental defectives?

As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, a circular was sent to all local authorities and there has been quite a substantial response, in that each year there has been an increase in the number of patients for whom these facilities have been arranged. I do not think that it calls for another circular, but no doubt the publicity given by this Question will emphasise the sympathy of the House with this problem.

Can the hon. Lady say why no annual report is made of these figures? They seem to be very important statistics which her Department should have. Why are they not available?

We have statistics of these cases admitted. But the hon. Member asked for the number of places available. In some cases, where normally permanent patients in mental hospitals are allowed out on holiday, the opportunity is taken to use the bed thus made available for a patient staying for a short period. There are no permanent statistics of the availability of beds on that basis, but we have a record of the number of people who are able to make use of such facilities.

asked the Minister of Health when it is expected that the new hospital at Greaves Hall will commence to take patients; what is the number of beds which will be reserved for the Liverpool region; and how many of those beds will be for low grade mentally defective children.

In December, 1956. This first stage of the new hospital which will provide 220 beds, of which 100 will be for low grade mentally defective children, will increase the combined resources of the Liverpool and Manchester regions and admissions will be determined by urgency of need, no specific number of beds being reserved for either region.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him to take into account that in Liverpool there are 96 low-grade mental defectives awaiting accommodation compared with 62 in January, 1951? In view of the growing seriousness of this problem, will he consider special steps for dealing with it in Liverpool?

I am always ready to consider any proposal, and indeed there is one before us now from the city authority which may be of help in solving this problem. Regarding the wider problem in the Liverpool region referred to by my hon. Friend, in addition to Graves Hall there are the new hospital buildings at Newchurch in the Liverpool region, and Cranwich in the Manchester region, providing another 400 beds for this type of case.

Without denying that there is a problem in the Liverpool region, may I take it that the Minister will not overlook the difficulties experienced in the Manchester region?

No, indeed I will not. These two regions are considered together. The Liverpool and Mancheser regions pool their waiting lists and, to some extent, the provision is planned with that in mind.

asked the Minister of Health the waiting time on current lists in the Manchester region for tuberculosis thoracic surgery; and how this compares with other regions.

The period varies from two or three weeks to rather over a year according to the urgency of the case and the centre concerned. Up-to-date comparative figures for other regions are not readily available, but I understand that waiting periods are generally rather less.

Does the Minister agree that the waiting time in the Manchester region is longer than anywhere else in the country and that the delay is due almost entirely to the shortage of specialist surgeons? Will the right hon. Gentleman say what he is doing now to give many unfortunate sufferers in this area an equal chance of recovery, which they have not at the moment?

The position is certainly serious, but without notice I should not like to say whether this region is the worst. The most important relief which could be given would be the appointment of extra specialists in thoracic surgery. The hon. Member will be glad to know that an extra one was appointed on 1st June and an additional one will be appointed in the autumn. That will make a substantial contribution to the solution of the problem which the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

Can the Minister say whether he periodically brings to the attention of the deans of the various medical schools that there are shortages in these different fields of medicine and surgery?

No, I have not con-considered that point. It is a very sound one, and I am glad that the right hon. Lady has raised it. I will see whether it is a suitable method of working.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance why instructions were given to his local officers that railway footplate men who applied for assistance for their wives and children during the last few days of the recent railway dispute were to be advised to apply for an advance of wages from their employers and were refused assistance by his Department.

It is not my local officers but the National Assistance Board who deal with applications for assistance. The Board informs me that, in accordance with normal practice, railwaymen who applied for assistance after the strike was over were expected to take advantage of the employers' offer to make available some payment on account of wages earned, but grants of assistance were made where this payment, with any other available resources, was insufficient to meet need.

Is the Minister aware that that is not quite correct? I can refer him to one family, at any rate, which was refused assistance when it was in great need. This telling of the men—as one of the officers in my district put it—to "go and sub off the employer," is very much resented by the men involved in the dispute. Is it not possible to get rid of this element in his administration?

If the hon. Member has particulars of any case where he thinks the Board has not discharged its duty, perhaps he will be good enough to send me them. In general, I think it is reasonable to expect these men to take advantage of their employers' offers to advance part of their wages before having recourse to the National Assistance Board.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will arrange for the National Assistance Board to give higher coal allowances to meet the increased cost of coal.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (1) if he is aware that an increase of from 10 per cent. to 12½ per cent. in domestic coal prices takes place on 18th July; and if he will bring this to the notice of the National Assistance Board with a view to increasing assistance scales to cover this and other recent increases in living costs;

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance, in view of the rise in coal prices, what review he is making of the rates of old-age pensions.

The National Assistance Board are, of course, watching the position, but fuel is only one of the necessities covered by assistance grants, which were increased as recently as last February. An acknowledgment has been sent to the communication from the National Federation of Old Age Pensioners Associations about retirement pensions, but I must point out that the rates of these pensions as raised only three months ago provide a higher purchasing power than any rates in force at any previous time.

Is the Minister aware that the old-age pensioners have to begin to pay their higher coal prices today, whereas, if precedent is followed, they will not get an increase in their pensions until just before the next General Election? Will the right hon. Gentleman therefore make representations to the National Assistance Board to meet this emergency need of the pensioners?

We must try to keep some sense of proportion about this matter. If a household were to consume one hundredweight of coal per week, the additional cost involved by the recent increase would be about 7½d.

Is the Minister aware that it is precisely a sense of proportion that is needed in these matters? Is he also aware that tens of thousands of old people who are living in rooms depend entirely upon coal for cooking and heating and that their weekly bill is between 7s. 6d. and 10s., which is an enormous proportion of their pensions? Although it is very hot now, it will probably be very cold before we meet again in October. Will the Minister make it clear to the National Assistance Board how urgent this matter is?

I have every confidence that the National Assistance Board will continue to discharge in the future, as it has done in the past, the duties laid upon it by Parliament.

Will the right hon. Gentleman remember that coal is essential to old people and is not a luxury? When he tells the House that assistance rates were raised last February, he will no doubt recall that those rates assumed that coal could be bought at a certain price but that since then the price has increased. What does he intend to do about that?

It is not a completely novel situation. I can hardly believe that during the tenure of office of hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite some of the necessities of life did not go up in price from time to time.

Is the Minister aware that, regardless of his statements here this afternoon, there is a growing tendency among recipients of assistance, the general public and public men and women, to believe that there is more hard-heartedness and inhumanity today than there was in the past?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not say that. It is incontrovertible that the present National Assistance scales give a better standard of living than any scales in force at any previous time.

Is not the increased price of coal yet another example of the failure of nationalised industry: worse quality at increased cost, and the wretched public has to lump it?

On a point of order. In view of the fact that fishing vessels are getting a subsidy because of the increased price of coal, may I give notice—

That is not a point of order.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what he estimates that the cost of imported coal would be to industrial users, based on the full economic price; and what they are actually paying now for a comparable grade of coal.

On average the loss on imported coal is about £2 per ton, but most of the imports go to domestic consumers and to the gas and electricity industries.

Will the Minister confirm or deny that industrialists get their coal more cheaply than domestic users?

All the coal prices to different users are decided upon the same principle.

Is the Minister aware that there is great dissatisfaction in mining circles that industrialists should get coal at uneconomic prices? Is he further aware that the miners will not accept this depressed balance sheet on the payment of import coal as an argument for worsening their wages and conditions?

It is not true that industrialists are getting their coal at uneconomic prices, any more than it is true that the domestic consumer or the Central Electricity Authority get their coal at an uneconomic price.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power what proportion of the increase of 18 per cent. in the pithead price of coal is attributable to the estimated loss of £24 million on coal imports.

About one-fifth.

Is the Minister aware of the enormous increase which takes place when that one-fifth goes through the chain of distribution in various industries, and comes to the end price? Will not he press his colleagues to alter the present absurd system and to allow the National Coal Board to charge prices in accordance with the cost of production of home-produced coal alone?

That is quite a different question.

asked the Minister of Fuel and Power to what percentage of coal distributing agencies his powers of bringing agencies under national ownership apply.

None, Sir.

In that case, will the Minister take steps to take over either the whole of the distribution system or part of it in order to answer the suspicions—many of them, I believe, justified—that there is too big a gap between the price of coal at the pithead and the price of coal to the customer?

No, Sir.

To ask the Minister of Fuel and Power whether he will state the annual investment in the coal mines since vesting date 1st January, 1947, showing year by year figures; and the annual investment authorised for 1955, 1956 and 1957.

Mr. Nabarro.

Where is he?

Can we be assured, Mr. Speaker, that the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) is not in the Tower?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what restrictions there are on the manufacture and use of opium in this country.

Opium may only be imported into the United Kingdom under licence and through approved ports. The possession, procuring, supply, and the use of opium for manufacturing drugs require a licence or other authority. Licensees and other authorised persons are required to comply with conditions as to labelling, safe custody, the keeping of records, and, as regards manufacture and supply, the making of returns as to receipts and disposals of the drug and its derivatives. The manufacture, sale, other dealing in, and possession of opium prepared for smoking are completely prohibited.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that so long as opium is available it is quite possible to make a passable imitation of heroin in a kitchen saucepan? Does that not militate against the ban on heroin?

I think that question should be put to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action the Herring Industry Board is taking to provide the public with herrings free from bones and so increase the demand and consumption of this type of fish.

The Board has commissioned a manufacturer to design a filleting machine capable of removing all the bones from raw fresh herring. They have also conducted experiments in producing packaged quick-frozen herring of which the bones have been softened by pressure cooking.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Air if he will report on the result of the medical examination given to 2731286 Aircraftman, Second Class, S. G. Thaine, who was brought home from Iraq; and what is his present medical grade.

The dyspepsia which caused this airman to be brought home has now been alleviated. His feet have been examined by an orthopaedic specialist who has recommended a course of exercises, and some slight alterations to his shoes. While he is undergoing treatment he will remain classified as temporarily unfit for duty.

Does not the Under-Secretary of State recall that when he answered my Question, and also replied to me on the Adjournment, he said it was not a question of the man's foot at all? How can he deny that a bone specialist has recommended that one toe be amputated, and that one leg is three-quarters of an inch longer than the other? Would he not agree that it is essential that this man should be discharged from the Service at the earliest possible moment as the man is not fit to be in the Service?

The previous Question to which the hon. Member has referred asked the reason for bringing this man home from the Middle East. That, I explained, was due to another cause altogether. As regards the second part of the supplementary question, the man has already been seen by an orthopaedic specialist and will be seen by him again about 1st August. The man is also at liberty to consult his own civilian doctor.

Because of the unsatisfactory nature of the answer and because I am unable to deal with the matter by Question and answer, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.