asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the additional bed capacity together with the additional staff complement resulting from the completion of Item 4 in the rebuilding at Stoney Stanton Road Hospital could be carried for a limited period by the present kitchens, and if he will give a higher priority for completion date to Item 4 so that it may be ready for use at least six months before the kitchen block.

I have no reason to suppose that work on the kitchen block is likely to delay progress with the additional wards.

Is the Minister aware that I very much appreciate the trouble he took in getting an opinion on this matter? Is he also aware, however, that the medical staff who have to work in this hospital have told me definitely that the present kitchens could carry this additional load for six months? Will he look into that point again?

I have looked into that matter, but even if I could switch labour and materials, the delay in completing the new kitchens would, in my view extend too far into the period during which the existing kitchens would have to cope with the additional load.

asked the Minister of Health whether, as plans were approved on 20th October last, he is now in a position to give details of the progress made on Item 2, kitchen, dining and clinical service block, in the phase three rebuilding at Stoney Stanton Road Hospital, in Coventry.

I am informed that the contract has been let and that the first site meeting has been held but delay in steel deliveries is likely to prevent the starting of the work for some months yet.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman—although this is probably rather a difficult question for him to answer—whether he feels that the regional hospital board has acted with the celerity which one would have expected of it? We have been concerned with this matter for a long time, and now we are told that there is to be a further month's delay.

This delay, which is entirely a matter of steel, has nothing to do with the regional hospital board. I have not been satisfied wholly with the progress of this work, wherever the responsibility may lie, and I am grateful to the hon. Lady for helping to expedite the matter.

asked the Minister of Health when he expects to receive an answer from the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board concerning Item 4 in the phase three rebuilding at Stoney Stanton Road Hospital, Coventry; and if he will make a detailed statement as to his criticisms of the plans submitted by the Board for this particular item.

The Board's answer reached my Department on 16th December. I am sending the hon. Member an extract from a letter to the Board giving my criticisms of the plans.

Is the Minister aware how helpful was the tabular answer that he inserted in the OFFICIAL REPORT On 25th April? Would he feel able now to put in a similar answer giving the same details for all the seven contracts involved in this matter, so that we can see what progress is being made?

Certainly. If the hon. Lady puts down a Written Question, I will give that information.

asked the Minister of Health how many wards of the Frenchay Hospital, Bristol, are closed due to the shortage of nursing staff.

One ward of twenty beds has not yet been brought into use because of shortage of nursing staff.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he will restrict any further building of hospitals in Bristol in view of the shortage of nursing staff, especially when there are greater demands for hospital accommodation in other parts of the south-west region, such as in Exeter, where they can get the nurses?

This seems to be a private war between Bristol and Exeter in which I am neutral.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the serious inconvenience that will result if, as proposed by the regional hospital board, the Maternity Wing at the Royal Northern Hospital is closed; and if he will make a statement.

I am considering the implications of this proposal.

I do not know what that means, but I hope that, in saying that he is considering the implications of the proposal, the Minister will tell us that he has not made up his mind, because it would—does he not realise—be a very serious thing if people who would normally go to the maternity wing of the Royal Northern Hospital had to go—as I am told would be the case—as far away as Mile End for their confinements? There will be great hardship if this proposal is persisted in.

I have not, of course, made up my mind, which is what my Answer implied. I should not think that the hardship involved would be anything like that suggested by the hon. Gentleman. He knows that this all arose because of an outbreak of infection in the unit, which had to be closed, so that people had to travel rather farther than usual because there was an emergency. The London Hospital and the Whittington Hospital are both within a mile or so of this hospital.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the Whittington Hospital, which he has mentioned, and the City of London Hospital, mean a very long journey for expectant mothers? The right hon. Gentleman must consider that it is a special class of patient which attends these hospitals. When he tells the House that he is considering the implications, will he say precisely what he means? The Royal Northern Hospital is situated in a most densely populated area, and I should like to know how many women were delivered in this wing in the last year, and just what are the implications which the Minister has in mind.

The implications which I have in mind are whether this unit, which is by no means a satisfactory one from the planning point of view, can or cannot be used better for another purpose under the National Health Service. As far as the distances of the hospitals are concerned, they are only a little more than a mile away from the Royal Northern Hospital. As far as the actual number of deliveries are concerned, perhaps the right hon. Lady will put down a Question.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply and of the great hardship which is already being caused by the uncertainty in this matter, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Health if he has yet approved the temporary extension of the casualty department at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham; in what way this extension will relieve the outpatient department; and when he proposes to give priority to the major schemes considered necessary to relieve the present overcrowding of both casualty and outpatient departments at this hospital.

Yes, Sir. Four treatment cubicles, relatives' waiting rooms and other facilities will be provided. In reply to the last part of the Question, I am unable to add to my reply to the hon. Member on 31st October.

Is the Minister aware that the improvement to the casualty department, for which I am grateful, can in no way possibly affect the outpatient department? As this has been most unsatisfactory for the last 18 years, I wonder if the right hon. Gentleman will make an inquiry of the management of the hospital, as he will find that what I have said is correct? Why should this hospital be regarded as a Cinderella?

I will certainly look into that question, but I should have thought that what I have said about the casualty department would be bound to relieve pressure on the outpatient department.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that delay occurs in obtaining beds for children suffering from diphtheria or suspected diphtheria in Birmingham; and if he will take steps to see that adequate arrangements are made to prevent any delay in future.

I am not aware of any such delay, but if the hon. Member has any case in mind and sends me particulars I will certainly look into it.

I will certainly do so. May I ask if the right hon. Gentleman will examine the arrangements for instructing doctors in such cases, because they have been rather held up in some cases, and that is rather serious in infectious cases?

I have been in touch with the regional hospital board and it does not know of any delay in this field. If the hon. Member has evidence, perhaps he will send it to me.

May I ask whether there have been any cases of diphtheria in the past twelve months in the Birmingham area, and, if so, how many?

I cannot say without notice, but the figures for the country last year reached a level of only 266 cases notified against 41,000 in 1942. There has been a dramatic drop.

asked the Minister of Health if he will enumerate the persons or official bodies to whom an involuntary patient in a mental hospital is allowed to address unopened and unsupervised correspondence.

These are set out in Section 41 (1) of the Lunacy Act, 1890, and I am sending my hon. Friend a copy.

May I ask my right hon. Friend if the detained person's Member of Parliament is on that list?

No, he is not, but it has always been the custom that letters to Members of Parliament should be forwarded.

Will my right hon. Friend make such an inclusion in the list?

There is no immediate prospect of legislation in that field and I am not sure that it would be a suitable subject for legislation, but when the Royal Commission reports, perhaps in a few months' time, this is a matter which might well be considered.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will take further steps to obtain possession of County School, North Elmham, Norfolk, for the accommodation of mental deficiency cases, in view of the need that now exists for such purpose.

I am considering what further steps to this end are justifiable.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a vast number of people in Norfolk would be most grateful to him if he could pursue steps which could obtain this building entirely for the use of such children in view of the large numbers awaiting admission?

Yes, Sir, I know the need, and here there is a willing seller and a willing buyer. The complication, as I am sure the hon. Member knows, is that there is a restrictive covenant which raises some important legal matters that will take some little time to resolve.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the wastage of qualified staff at St. George's Hospital, Morpeth, and St. Mary's Hospital at Stanningate; and what steps are being taken to encourage recruitment.

Yes, Sir, my right hon. Friend understands that there has been some net loss of qualified male nurses during the past year. The hospital management committees are advertising the vacancies, and they are in touch with the Nursing Appointments Officer of the Ministry of Labour and National Service, who is doing everything possible to help them.

Is the hon. Lady aware that some of the main deterrents to recruitment for these hospitals arise from the physical conditions there, the limited amenities available to the staff and the general feeling that promotion on the male side is very slow? Would she be good enough to make further inquiries into this matter?

Certainly, I will look into the points that the hon. Member has raised. I recognise the difficulties of these two hospitals. St. George's is in keen competition with local industries, which also are short of staff, and St. Mary's is in an isolated position, which makes recruitment difficult. I assure the hon. Member, however, that by a cadet scheme and by advertising, we are doing our utmost to increase the staff; while there has been a reduction in the male staff, I am glad to say that there has been a net gain of female nursing staff.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the serious overcrowding at St. George's Hospital, Morpeth; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. Eighty new beds have come into use at this hospital in the last few months and further extensions are planned.

Is the Minister aware that St. George's Hospital is a hundred years old, that a ward designed for 48 beds now has 126 beds, that the beds are so close together that it is almost physically impossible to make them; and, further, that on the adjoining farm, as I can assure the Minister from a personal visit, the animals seem to have very much more room than patients in some of the wards of the hospital?

I assure the hon. Member, also from personal experience, that I know the hospital and I know even that ward. We have been doing what we can to give it priority, and there are schemes to the value of more than £300,000 which will very greatly help to relieve the overcrowding there.

Is the Minister satisfied that there will be sufficient current funds available for running expenses to maintain any developments that may be approved on the capital side?

Of course, we never go ahead with capital expenditure until we are satisfied that we can carry the additional maintenance burden.

asked the Minister of Health (1) to what extent it is his policy to allow the use by hospital management committees of amenity funds for the carrying out of capital projects;

(2) if he is aware that No. 17 Group, Dudley and Stourbridge, of the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board has had to spend £8,000 out of its free money for urgently necessary capital expenditure; and if he will arrange for this sum to be repaid by his Department.

I do not know what specific projects the hon. Member has in mind but I welcome proposals by hospital authorities for the use of non-Exchequer funds for urgently needed capital works and see no reason to repay any such expenditure from the Exchequer.

Would the Minister agree that adequate waiting room accommodation, a dispensary, a pathological laboratory, occupational therapy and staff recreation rooms ought all to be part of the normal hospital services and that it is unfair that the amenity fund should be used for these purposes to the detriment of the comfort of the patients? Could he not agree, even if he does not repay this money immediately, to repay it when the economic situation looks a little better?

All those developments are, of course, important and, if financed by Exchequer funds, would have to take their place with other competing claims in the area. I think, however, that it would obviously be a very bad system to repay expenditure of this nature, for all that would mean is that the very wealthy hospitals—and there are many—could rebuild their premises completely, if necessary, and claim back all the money from the Exchequer. I must have regard to priorities in this field.

asked the Minister of Health what action he is taking to ensure the protection of hospital staffs against radiation hazards.

The Radioactive Substances Advisory Committee has submitted to me a code of practice for the protection of persons working with ionising radiations in hospitals. This will form the basis of advice which I hope to send to all hospitals shortly.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the existing practice varies greatly between one hospital and another in this respect? Would he consult the Minister of Labour about the responsibility for issuing the necessary orders under the Radioactive Substances Act? If it turns out to be his, will he consult himself?

asked the Minister of Health what financial provision he will make for 1956–57 to enable the Newcastle Regional Hospital Board to meet arrears of repairs and maintenance and to enable it to employ the staff urgently required if efficient services are to be developed.

As I have already informed regional hospital boards, I hope to notify the allocations for their regions for 1956–57 about mid-February, 1956.

But is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that there will be sufficient finance to enable the new schemes of capital development which he has approved to take place, and also to ensure that we can catch up on some of the backlog of work which has been waiting for so long?

All these matters are very much in our minds, and we are at the moment in the middle of the ordinary negotiations with the regional boards and the Treasury on them.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when it is likely he will be able to answer this point more fully?

I have already said in mid-February.

Will it be only in my right hon. Friend's mind or will it also be in hard cash to the regional hospital boards, especially in the North?

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that doctors' lists in the London area of the National Health Service now contain 8,487 more names than the total population of the area; what the effect is on the cost of the Service; and what steps he is taking to rectify this anomaly.

My right hon. Friend knows of this estimate; on the second and third parts of the Question he cannot yet add to his reply to the hon. and gallant Member on 25th July.

Is this not a fantastic situation in which, although the right hon. Gentleman has been warned about it, nothing apparently has been done? What steps is the Ministry taking to ensure that these grossly inflated figures are not tolerated any longer than is absolutely necessary?

The executive councils and the doctors have been notified, but it is an extremely difficult matter, where no notification has been given, to check and trace immediately people who have died or who have moved from one area to another. The ultimate aim would be to have a central alphabetical index as well as the present numerical one, but it is an extremely difficult task. The hon. and gallant Gentleman will be aware that there are, for example, hundreds of thousands of Smiths with the same initials and, indeed, with the same Christian names, who have to be dealt with. I should like to correct a misapprehension which appears in his Question. This situation does not increase our payments to doctors, as they draw their fees from the general pool.

asked the Minister of Health, as representing the Lord President of the Council, whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that many strains of staphylococcal germs are resistant to penicillin but not to the antibiotic albomycin, discovered and developed in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; and whether he will approach the Ministry of Health in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for supplies of this antibiotic for clinical trial in British hospitals.

Members of the staff of the Medical Research Council discussed the properties of albomycin with the doctors who recently visited this country from the Soviet Union. The Council is endeavouring to obtain a supply of this antibiotic from the Soviet Union so that its properties can be investigated.

I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the death rate from chronic bronchitis in adult males varies greatly in different localities, and in the same locality in those engaged in different industries; and whether he will cause an inquiry to be made into the cause and prevention of this malady.

I am aware of the facts to which the hon. Member refers. Some aspects of the problem are already being considered by my Standing Medical Advisory Committee and, I am informed, by a working party of the Medical Research Council.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the death rate from bronchitis in this country is higher than in most countries, if not, indeed, in any other country? Does the right hon. Gentleman also realise the number of days' work that are lost every year through this affection, and does he not feel it is time that a serious attempt was made to discover how it can be prevented?

Yes, indeed, I feel it is time that we did that, and it is exactly for that reason that the two inquiries which I mentioned in my reply have been put in hand. In addition, I am informed that in the New Year the Industrial Health Advisory Committee of the Ministry of Labour is also to take up this problem.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how soon the reports are expected from these two bodies?

I cannot prophesy about that, but it is regarded as an urgent matter.

As the mortality rate from chronic bronchitis is higher in my constituency than in any other in the country, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he is advised that the mortality rate varies in direct ratio to the degree of air pollution?

I should not have thought that it was in direct ratio, but there is beyond doubt a connection between the two.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been called to recent evidence indicating that a not inconsiderable proportion of those living in common lodging houses and reception centres are suffering from pulmonary tuberculosis and liable to infect others; and whether he will call the attention of local authorities to the desirability of X-ray examination of such people and provision for the necessary treatment.

I am aware of the situation to which the hon. Member refers and am considering how best to deal with it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman keep in mind that tuberculosis is an infectious disease and as many as ten new cases have been traced to one individual? If he really wants to get rid of this disease, will he bear in mind that he will have to deal with it by a certain amount of restriction and care of those who are spreading it?

I have been anxious about this matter for some time and the Parliamentary Secretary has been going into the question of what we can do. We are having a meeting very soon with the Ministry of Housing and Local Government and the National Assistance Board to formulate a joint plan of action.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has noted the lowering of the death rate from tuberculosis in recent years, whilst the death rate from chronic bronchitis and allied lung disorders is rising; and whether he will give consideration to using the services of the anti-tubercular clinics and their skilled medical personnel to deal with these latter disorders.

I have noted the encouraging fall in the death rate from tuberculosis, but the numbers of new cases notified have not been falling so quickly and still make heavy demands on the chest clinics. Nor do I accept the suggestion that the death rate from chronic bronchitis is rising.

Will not the Minister accept the possibility that there may be, if, as we all hope, we are successful in further combating tuberculosis, the danger to consider that the staffs and premises of those clinics may no longer be needed? Is he aware that the point of my Question is to put to him the point that inasmuch as there is very much chronic bronchitis and allied chest disorders, those staffs should be considered for dealing with those diseases?

The figures of bronchitis must be studied with great care, because they are not always comparable, owing to the changes in the international classification. It is true that we can look forward to having a considerable increase in resources from the fact that the beds for tuberculous patients are not so much used as they have been, but I do not think that time has yet come.

May we take it from the Minister that he gives full support to the inquiries, in which, I know, he is interested, in Newcastle and elsewhere, following this matter up, and that he will waste no time in putting the recommendations into force?

asked the Minister of Health the number of deaths from tuberculosis and from chronic bronchitis in Stoke-on-Trent for 1928 and 1954.

The numbers of deaths from tuberculosis in the County Borough of Stoke-on-Trent for the years in question are:

In view, however, of the fact that in that city there are industries such as the pottery, steel and coal mining industries, which are all industries in which there is respiratory risk from the inhalation of noxious material, would the right hon. Gentleman consider using the departments available, such as the chest clinics there, so that these and other respiratory diseases may there be examined and treated?

I very much welcome the interest which the hon. Gentleman shows in this matter. If we can advantageously switch resources we shall do so.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent local health authorities have provided accommodation for general practitioners in premises in which their clinics are held so that the advantages of close association between services for prevention and cure may be obtained without the cost of new building.

My right hon. Friend is not aware of any such cases unless the hon. Member has in mind health centres.

Would not the hon. Lady agree with Lord Dawson of Penn that one cannot separate prevention and cure, and is it not desirable, wherever possible—and as I believe is being done to some extent in Birmingham—to associate practitioners with preventive services?

My right hon. Friend would encourage any experimental scheme for associating general practitioners with the local health services, especially in co-ordinating antenatal work, provided it is both legally and financially justifiable. The hon. Gentleman is aware, as will ensue from a following Question, that a considerable number of experiments, which vary in their application, are being carried out on the health centre basis, and we are watching them with great interest.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the development of health centres, in view of the valuable experience Gained at Harlow and elsewhere.

Six new health centres have been provided under the National Health Service Act, 1946, in addition to twenty-four premises taken over as centres by local health authorities in 1948. A seventh new centre was opened formally last week and a small number of schemes are at various stages of planning and construction.

My right hon. Friend will continue to support, so far as he can, further experimentation where new facilities for local health authorities and general practice are needed and co-operation between these branches of the service can be achieved. He welcomes the initiative of the Nuffield Provincial Hospitals Trust and other bodies in sponsoring other experiments at Harlow and elsewhere. These, together with the centres provided by local health authorities, will give valuable experience from which future projects will no doubt profit.

Has the hon. Lady taken note of this work, particularly at Harlow, and, in view of the great value of the type of centre which is being developed there, would she and her right hon. Friend be prepared to consider whether any detailed amendment of the Health Service Act might be necessary in order to encourage this sort of co-operation between the preventive and the after-care services which we so much want?

I think the hon. Gentleman will agree, as indeed we do, that the experience of these new centres and of how they will work in a year or so from the time of their inception will be of great benefit in judging their future use, but it would be idle to ignore the fact that needs vary from area to area. While these centres might serve a vital need in a new community, they are not always as applicable in old-established residential areas. I think that we must work on the experience gained from the most useful schemes now under way.

Will the hon. Lady at least see that we do not lose the chance of developing health centres in newly-developed areas or where there is, perhaps, a complete redevelopment of an old industrial area, before doctors establish themselves in private houses?

I think that all these points are taken into consideration, particularly in new areas.

asked the Minister of Health his estimate of the quantity of heroin that has been stocked by hospitals since it became known that the further manufacture of the drug was likely to be banned.

I am aware that some hospitals have increased their stocks, but I cannot, without extensive inquiry, estimate the increase throughout the country.

Is it not a fact that many of our hospitals, including some of the greatest teaching hospitals in the world, have been increasing their stocks of heroin since they heard of the threat to ban the manufacture of the drug? Is that not very strong evidence that many of the most distinguished members of the medical profession hold the opinion that there is no suitable and equally effective substitute for the drug, and will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that that is made abundantly clear in the White Paper which the Home Secretary has promised to publish?

It is evidence, of course, of a conflict of view in the medical profession. We have always known that that conflict existed.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say how he views this extraordinary exploitation on the part of some hospitals, which is designed solely to evade the decision which his Department has taken? Will he say whether he proposes to sanction this increased expenditure?

I think that Question No. 18 covers that point.

asked the Minister of Health the number of registered heroin addicts who are at present licensed to receive the drug by National Health prescription; and what arrangements he proposes to make in respect of these people subsequent to the ban on the drug.

Heroin addicts are not registered or licensed to receive heroin, and a patient receives heroin under the National Health Service only if his doctor prescribes it as being necessary for his treatment. If heroin were not available it would be for the doctor to decide which, if any, of the various alternative drugs should be prescribed.

May I ask my right hon. Friend if, in spite of what he has said, he will be mindful of the danger of the fact that these people, many of whom are chronic addicts, will form a hard core for the illicit traffic in drugs in the event of heroin being stopped? In particular, did my right hon. Friend see in last week's Lancet the letter by a medical man in which he mentioned that two of the addicts he was treating had been approached by pedlars in drugs?

I saw that letter, which I thought was a very strange one for a doctor to write. In reply to the first part of the question, I would say that the number of addicts in this country is known to be so small that I do not think they would provide any appreciable traffic in an illicit trade.

asked the Minister of Health which London hospitals have, in view of the intended ban, increased their normal stocks of heroin; and whether he has approved the additional expenditure thereby incurred.

In reply to the first part of the Question. I regret that the information is not available. There would, of course, be no question of approval to additional expenditure for such a purpose but authority is not required for the purchase of drugs within the total of the approved budget.

Is it not quite deplorable that a small group of doctors should have made up their mind to sabotage the ban the Government were intending to impose? Is the Minister not going to make clear that further attempts to evade the ban which the Government are standing by at the moment will be viewed with disfavour by him?

This is a difficult question. We do not control the stocks of drugs which a hospital chooses to purchase, and even after reflection I do not want to issue any form of instruction on this matter; I think that would be going too far. On the other hand, it is right to say—this is, I think, behind the Question of the hon. and gallant Member—that this is an expenditure of public money and, that, therefore, those who spend it should take into account the views of the Government.

Will my right hon. Friend remember that, in answer to a Question last week, he told me that he desired to leave the doctors to prescribe what drugs they thought fit, and will he take no action which would handicap hospital boards doing exactly that?

I have covered that point in my reply to the last supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Health from which body of medical opinion he has sought expert advice since meeting a deputation from the British Medical Association in July, 1955.

None. No medical considerations were put forward by the Association which had not already been before the Standing Medical Advisory Committee.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that when he had had such strong representations from the British Medical Association opposing the proposal he should have put the matter again before the Medical Advisory Committee, or, better still, before the Royal Colleges, and informed them of the protest of the Medical Association and asked them to consider the matter?

The Chairman of the Council of the B.M.A., who led the deputation protesting to the Government against the ban, was one of those present at the meeting who concurred in the advice that the ban should be imposed. The reply to the other part of the question is that the considerations put forward were not strictly medical ones on which it might be necessary to have further advice, but related essentially to professional matters.

Is it not a fact that the Chairman of the British Medical Association has since withdrawn from his position and retracted the views he expressed as a member of the Advisory Committee? Further, is it the intention of the Minister not to have further consultations either with the British Medical Association, the Medical Research Council or anyone?

The answer to the first part of the question is "Yes," and to the second part, "No."

Does the right hon. Gentleman know that to do as my hon. Friend the Member for Batley and Morley (Dr. Broughton) suggested would be quite improper —it would in fact be trying to bring pressure to bear on the Standing Advisory Committee by the British Medical Association? The Standing Advisory Committee is representative of the highest medical thought in this country, and to bring pressure of that kind to bear upon it would be grossly unfair?

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for that question. Perhaps I should make it clear that the Government believe they went to the right body to get this advice, and that this Committee is a body of the greatest distinction. It was on the basis of that advice that I advised my right hon. and gallant Friend the Home Secretary.

asked the Minister of Health when he intends to introduce a chiropody service for old-age pensioners.

My right hon. Friend is afraid he cannot say when this will be possible, but he does not think that any extension of the service should be limited to pensioners.

Will my hon. Friend see that that is conveyed to the Treasury that here is a way of helping small fixed income groups without imperilling the export trade or making undue demands on consumer goods? Will she see that the Treasury knows that I am awaiting some action in accordance with the undertaking the Treasury has given in respect of small income groups?

I think the hon. Lady has rather adroitly tried to put questions to two Departments into one question. I can assure her that we appreciate the desirability, if financial means are available, of endeavouring to introduce this service; but it has to be considered in order of priority with the many other claims.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the refund of payment for prescriptions is in practice limited to persons on National Assistance that this is causing complaint; and whether he will discuss ways and means of ensuring that other people living on small fixed incomes have equal treatment.

No, Sir. The National Assistance Board will refund the prescription charge to any person who satisfies the Board that, on the Board's standards, payment of the charge would cause hardship.

Could my hon. Friend explain, so that the public, and especially people who have difficulty in finding shillings, can understand what standard the National Assistance Board applies in assessing hardship? Is it different from the standard which is applied when people apply for National Assistance? This is very difficult for the general public to understand, and it has got into a muddle. That is what everybody thinks.

I do not think it is a case of muddle. My hon. Friend's Question and, I hope, my reply will re-emphasise that those whose means do not come up to the standard universally laid down by the National Assistance Board are eligible to apply for the refund of any of the charges under the National Health Service. I think it will be agreed that it is necessary to have a common standard, and that of the National Assistance Board is the one which is applied in this case.

In view of the cost of administration, is not the only answer to the very desirable question by the hon. Lady the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) to abolish the charge altogether?

As three-quarters of the revenue from the charges result from legislation imposed by hon. Members opposite, it is interesting to see how their view changes when they do not have the responsibility for finding the money.

Can my hon. Friend list the standards in HANSARD, so that everybody can see them?

Was it not the original idea that the 1s. should be refunded to all old-age pensioners and not simply to those who happen to be drawing National Assistance? Is that not where the difficulty arises at present?

No, Sir. The original idea was that those who established that they were already receiving National Assistance would automatically be allowed the refund. Those who were not receiving National Assistance—and who therefore, in many cases, probably had other means—would have to establish their need of the refund to the National Assistance Board.

asked the Minister of Health how many research workers are employed at the Uffculme Psychiatric Research Unit; how the unit is financed; and the estimated annual cost.

This unit, which is not yet fully in operation, is associated with All Saints Hospital and the Department of Experimental Psychology at the University of Birmingham. Both provide research workers and contribute to the cost. As the staff have other duties and the unit is not separately costed, I regret that the information asked for in the first and third parts of the Question is not available.

In welcoming the establishment of this very valuable and interesting unit, may I ask whether the Minister is satisfied that the work of chemico-therapeutic research is being done on a sufficiently wide scale? Through his noble Friend the Lord President, would he not consider interesting perhaps the Medical Research Council in the project?

I quite agree that this work is of very great importance. If the hon. Member would like fuller information about it, perhaps he would come and talk to a senior member of my staff, who would be very glad to discuss it with him.

Without commenting on the value of this unit, may I ask the Minister to bear in mind that the work it is doing is of interest not only to my hon. Friend, but to the whole House, and that any information which he publishes about it should be given in the OFFICIAL REPORT? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the arrangements about the expense being shared between the university and the Ministry are sensible? Will he give an assurance that full public information will be given about the work that this unit is doing?

If there is a desire for wider information about this unit, I will consider how best I can meet the need. This is a major piece of research, and I think it likely that it will come under the Medical Research Council as part of the reorganisation of clinical research, of which the hon. Member is aware.

asked the Minister of Health what action he proposes to take to facilitate the distribution of cod liver oil and orange juice so that these welfare foods may be readily available to all the children under five years of age who need them.

My right hon. Friend is making inquiries into the consumption and distribution of welfare foods, and when they are complete he will consider whether any further action is required.

While thanking the hon. Lady for that reply, may I receive an assurance from her that the Minister realises that most of the people who collect these bottles of orange juice and cod liver oil are mothers accompanied by their small children, and that they cannot travel very long distances to collect these supplies of essential foods?

I appreciate what the hon. Lady has said, but difficulties have arisen in very few areas. I am glad to say that the uptake of orange juice, about which there was some concern earlier in the year, in the third quarter showed a very marked increase to 9½04 million bottles, compared with 7½42 million in the second quarter and 5½99 million in the first quarter. That is a distinct improvement on the not-so-good figure earlier in the year, and it looks as if the difficulties have been ironed out in many areas. We have the matter under close review, particularly in those areas where the change-over does not seem to have been wholly satisfactory.

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made with the suction socket limb; how many amputees have tried it out; and how many are now in regular use by war-pensioners and civilian amputees.

The experimental stage ended nearly two years ago, and this type of limb is now available in all limb fitting centres. No separate records of its use are kept, so that the information asked for in the latter parts of the Question is not available.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will appoint a committee to inquire into the well-being of old people in homes administered by the local and county authorities; and whether he will publish the results of such inquiry.

No, Sir. Homes provided by local authorities under Part III of the National Assistance Act are inspected by my right hon. Friend's officers from time to time, and he is satisfied that the local authorities are alive to their responsibilities and that the residents in these homes receive a very high standard of care.

Does my hon. Friend not agree that the Curtis Committee does most valuable work for children in public care, and would she consult the Minister to see if a similar committee might be set up to look after the well-being of old people, because there are numbers who suffer from not very good feeding, and numbers of other elderly people who are subject to unnecessarily strict discipline in these homes?

It is only fair to local authorities to say that during the past years they have increased very considerably indeed not only the number of beds but also the standard of Part III accommodation for old people. Recognising the difficulty that there is a large demand, which they are not always able to meet, they have also done an enormous amount of work in improving the old P.A.I.S. being used for this purpose. It is not possible to give them up because of the demand by the large number of patients. It would be a very great reflection on the fine work the local authorities have done in difficult circumstances if any suggestion went out from this House that they are not doing their job fairly.

Is the hon. Lady aware that the success of the work she is talking about is due to the very intimate knowledge of the local authorities which are responsible for doing it? If she wants a first-class example of a humane attitude towards old people, perhaps she will come to Staffordshire.

I can assure the hon. Member I have been to very many dozens of old people's homes and can join in his tribute to their work, not only in Staffordshire, but in other counties.

asked the Minister of Health in what areas there is now a shortage of medical practitioners, district nurses and maternity nurses, respectively; and approximately how many serving in each of these categories are of Colonial or Commonwealth origin.

My right hon. Friend will send the hon. Member lists of the areas where there are openings for general practitioners or vacancies for home nurses and midwives. No information is available as to the origins of those already in practice.

Can the hon. Lady say whether there is a decrease or an increase in the shortage? In view of the undoubted value of the colonial nurses, is any effort being made to recriut probationer nurses among the West Indians who are over here?

More and more nurses are coming in from the Colonies, and a very excellent job they are doing. So far as the vacancies are concerned, perhaps the hon. Gentleman would await the lists. He will find that most of them are in one or two parts of the country. I would rather not go into details until he has seen the lists. Perhaps he may then wish to put down a further Question.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the recent £25 per annum rise in pay to nurses and the probable increase in charge for furnished accommodation from £52 to £90 per annum, whether he will consider an adjustment of these figures to avoid nurses being financially worse off than they were before the nominal increase in salary.

No, Sir. The new maximum charges were agreed by the Whitley Council.

If the right hon. Gentleman agrees with these figures—and he has not disputed them—does he not think that it seems rather unfair to give a rise of £25 and then almost simultaneously increase the charges for accommodation by so large an amount? Is it not a Dutchman's rise?

I do not think there is any connection between the two. As far as the charge for furnished accommodation is concerned, the £52 was a fixed amount, the £90 is a maximum, and I do not think it necessarily follows that there will be the consequences that the hon. Member foresees.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what action has been taken on the proposal of Her Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom that a group of scientists representing each of the countries on the United Nations Disarmament Sub-Committee should confer and produce a report on the possibilities of controlling nuclear weapons.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps have been taken to hold a conference of scientists representing the members of the United Nations Committee on Disarmament to consider the scientific, as opposed to the political aspects of the international control of atomic weapons.

No specific action has yet been taken on this proposal, which I made in the United Nations Sub-Committee on 7th October. It may be assumed, however, that the Disarmament Sub-Committee will revert to this subject when it meets again.

Is it not a fact that the five Governments, including the Russian Government, represented on the Disarmament Sub-Committee, are agreed that unless the scientists can produce a working scheme for detecting stocks and accumulations of nuclear weapons, there is little likelihood of a general disarmament agreement? If that is so, is it not of major importance that some action should be taken to deal with the problem?

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for his very helpful supplementary question. Unfortunately, it is not completely true to say that the five Governments are agreed on this matter. The right hon. and learned Gentleman will have seen that a variation of the proposal which I made in the Disarmament Sub-Committee is contained in a Resolution which was passed by the United Nations Assembly only a week ago, and that the Soviet Union voted against that proposal. We shall go on pegging away to try to get their agreement to some scheme of this kind.

Is it not of the greatest importance that the right hon. Gentleman should impress upon all the Governments concerned that it is only right that the scientists who invented the bomb should be let loose to try to find some means of detecting stores of the bomb? Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that there is no time to lose, and that we cannot grope around any more?

That idea was very much in my mind when I made the proposal.

When did Her Majesty's Government first discover that this difficulty of detecting stocks of nuclear weapons would make it impossible to have a comprehensive disarmament agreement?

We had known for some time that it was not possible to be 100 per cent. sure that all nuclear weapons could be discovered under a comprehensive disarmament agreement, but on 10th May the Soviet Government said in terms that such a disarmament could not be made without the assurance that all nuclear weapons could be discovered and that it was impossible at the moment to discover them.

May we take it that, whatever the position with regard to stocks of nuclear weapons, Her Majesty's Government have not given up hope of a general disarmament agreement on conventional weapons?

We have not given up hope of a disarmament agreement on conventional weapons, and we also hope ultimately to achieve a comprehensive agreement embracing nuclear weapons, but we cannot proceed to that until we have discovered means of control and have broken through this scientific barrier.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how the British delegation voted on the 10 Resolutions adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on the subject of the administration of South-West Africa by the Government of the South African Union.

The United Kingdom delegation abstained on six of the Resolutions and voted against four of them.

May I welcome the right hon. Gentleman on his return from the United Nations, and ask him whether he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the actual terms of the Resolutions in favour of which our delegation voted, of those against which our delegation voted, and of those on which the delegation abstained?

The hon. Member is wrong about the Answer. The United Kingdom abstained on six Resolutions and voted against four. We did not vote in favour of any. I will certainly consider the proposal which the hon. Member has made.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been drawn to the recent official pronouncement of Mr. Khrushchev concerning the position of Kashmir; and, as this question is at present before the Security Council, if he will instruct our representative there to raise the inadvisability of comment by Ministers of member States on matters which are sub judice before the Council.

I have read the reports of Mr. Khrushchev's remarks. I agree that these remarks are hardly in keeping with the United Nations Resolutions on Kashmir, and I hope that this reply will make clear our view that statements should not be made which prejudge issues of which the Security Council remains seized.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the purpose of the Question was to ask him whether he would raise this matter in the Security Council, because it is desirable that there should be understanding between the parties in the Council about the procedure which would be followed when cases are before the Council? Will he raise the matter there?

I will certainly consider the suggestion, but I do not think that any useful purpose would be served by a British representative raising it because, as the hon. Member probably will have seen, the Pakistani representative at the United Nations made a very strong statement on this question during the debate on disarmament.