asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many complaints he has received during the last two years about the administration and discipline in Peterhead Prison; the nature, scope and personnel of the inquiry made into each of these complaints; what evidence was submitted; what reports, conclusions and recommendations were made in each case; and what steps were taken, and by whom, to implement those recommendations.

Since 1st January, 1954, my right hon. Friend has received 117 petitions and the Visiting Committee 38 representations from prisoners in Peterhead about matters relating to administration, discipline, medical treatment and food. These were fully investigated by the Visiting Committee or by my right hon. Friend's officers, but no action, other than the introduction of a more varied diet and improved heating in the tailor's shop, has been found necessary.

Does the Joint Under-Secretary realise that the vast number of these complaints indicates that there must be something wrong in that prison? Will he state whether the inquiries were authoritative and independent, and whether they had regard, not only to punishments, but to reform and the making of good citizens, in accordance with the best modern ideas of penology?

The inquiries were thoroughly carried out by the visiting committee or officers of the Department. As I have said, some improvements in social conditions, heating and food have been made, and it would be true to say that the main criticisms have come from a hard core of rather awkward gentlemen.

Is it not a sad reflection on the administration that out of more than 100 complaints, note has been taken of only those relating to a varied diet, after there had been almost a mutiny in the prison? Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that even prisoners who have come out of this prison have given up all hope of being able to get any redress of their grievances? Is that not a dangerous state of affairs for any prison?

It is very difficult: men who are in prison or who have been in prison almost inevitably have grievances. The hon. Member has met my right hon. Friend and talked about this matter, and if he feels that he would like another discussion, we shall be ready to meet him.

Does not the vast number of complaints, indicate that there should be an outside independent inquiry in the interests, not only of the prisoners, but of the Governor of the prison himself?

It is not a vast number. There have been 117 petitions over a considerable period of time. When it is remembered that there are 230 to 240 prisoners there all the time and that many of these complaints are of very trifling matters, there does not seem to be any reason for surprise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now consult the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food for the purpose of devising a means of increasing the powers of the White Fish Authority to enable it to build or otherwise acquire fishing vessels to be operated permanently by that Authority.

I regret I am unable to add to the reply given to the hon. and learned Member on 13th December last.

Does the Joint Under-Secretary not realise that this has become a national problem, because the high price of scrap is diminishing the fishing fleets and the scarcity of steel and its bad distribution are making it impossible—at all events difficult—for private builders to cope with the problem?

The Authority has not asked to be given powers to build and operate trawlers. As the hon. and learned Member knows, there have been several grants for new vessels in Aberdeen and there are indications that there will be still more. I hope that the hon. and learned Member will help us to persuade local firms to make use of the possibilities open to them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of Her Majesty's Government's plans for evacuating 12 million people if he will make a statement on how far these plans will be operated in Scotland.

Of the 12 million people referred to about a million would be evacuated in Scotland. The arrangements will be discussed with the local authorities as soon as possible.

Can the Joint Under-Secretary give us any idea to what part of Scotland it is practicable to evacuate one million people, in view of the lack of housing in most parts of Scotland?

My right hon. Friend cannot at this stage announce detailed plans, since the whole scheme has to be discussed with the local authorities. However, certain areas on Clydeside and in the industrial belt will obviously have to be classified as evacuation areas from which the classes covered by the scheme would be moved into other areas to the North or to the South.

As that will be very difficult to do when an emergency arises, would it not be more sensible to have considerable redistribution of industry and population for the good of the peace-time population as well as of the war-time population? Would the hon. Gentleman consider advising some of these heavily populated areas to evacuate some of their industries and population to parts of the Highlands where they will be safe and healthy?

I will draw my right hon. Friend's attention to that suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by what authority the police stopped the marriage in Scotland of two English people whose names have been sent to him.

In the case to which the hon. Member refers, the police did not take action for the purpose of stopping a marriage. They took to a place of safety a young person under 17 years of age whom they believed to be in need of care or protection.

Was not that young person in Scotland for the purpose of getting married, and were not the labour exchange officials invoked to keep the couple talking until the police arrived? Will the hon. Gentleman impress on the Secretary of State that if the police can be brought in to assist in this case, and assuming that his figures are correct and that there were 133 Gretna marriages last year, there must be 532 English parents entitled to the same kind of intervention and service from the police? Is it not time that this old racket of flying away over the Border was cut out?

I am unable to answer the last part of the supplementary question put by the hon. Lady; it does not arise on this Question. The police took this girl into safety because she was under seventeen years of age, as they were entitled to do under the Act of 1937. I should be glad to tell the hon. Lady what they did; I think they acted with commendable good sense and courtesy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that the Report of the Herbert Committee upon the electricity supply industry in England and Wales states that the area boards are languid in their approach to the most efficient use of capital and manpower, and in other directions; and, in view of this indictment and the fact that similar defects and disabilities apply to the electricity supply industry in Scotland, what steps he is taking to ensure that the South of Scotland Electricity Board and the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board waste no further resources of capital and manpower.

The Report referred to does not relate to Scotland and, in any case, I do not accept as facts the sweeping statements in the latter part of the Question.

Does not the reply of my hon. Friend mean he is satisfied that the Scottish electricity boards are perfect in every respect? Why does he imagine that the Scots in their administration do not suffer from such disabilities as the English unfortunately possess?

I think it monstrous to suggest that because there are said to be certain defects in England they should also apply in Scotland.

Withdraw.

Order.

A thoroughly unsatisfactory answer.

A thoroughly unsatisfactory question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will appoint a committee to inquire into the organisation and efficiency of the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board and the South of Scotland Electricity Board, the terms of reference of such a committee to be generally similar to those given to the Herbert Committee on the Electricity Supply industry in England and Wales.

No, Sir.

Why not?

Well, I will answer my hon. Friend. The reorganisation of the electricity supply industry in Scotland took effect only on 1st April, 1955, and my right hon. Friend does not think that it would be reasonable to hold an inquiry so soon.

Cannot my hon. Friend give some advice about the form of public or Parliamentary accountability which can now be extended to these two Scottish electricity boards? Is he aware that in the 12 years since the North of Scotland Board was established there has not been a debate in this House on its Report and Accounts and that no sort of inquiry has been made by previous Governments or by the present Government into the widespread allegations of extravagance and inefficiency?

Questions on the Parliamentary programme are not for me to answer. As to an outside inquiry, it may well be that at some future time we shall do what has been done in England, but that moment has not arrived.

Are not the allegations of the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) extremely unfortunate in that they are based on no information or solid facts at all? Is the Secretary of State for Scotland not directly responsible for these bodies, and has he not supervision over their activities? Is it not therefore an attack upon his right hon. Friend to suggest that there is gross inefficiency in those bodies?

Withdraw.

Would not the Joint Under-Secretary agree that the divergent views which have already been expressed—I cannot accept the innuendoes of my hon. Friend the Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro)—exist because we have had no debate? Will he please put to his right hon. Friend the desirability of having a debate in the near future on the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what inquiries and precautions are taken by his Department, before the issue of a certificate, to ensure that the twenty-one days' qualification has been observed before marriage is solemnised between runaways from England: and if he is satisfied that this qualification was observed in the case of which particulars have been sent to him.

Under statute a person giving notice to a registrar of an intended marriage must, under penalty, sign a declaration that he has his usual residence in the registrar's district or has resided there for not less than fifteen clear days immediately before giving notice. The declaration must be witnessed by two householders who must declare that they believe it to be true. The notice must then be posted outside the office of the registrar who, if no objection is made, is bound to issue a certificate after seven clear days. Registration of the marriage to which the hon. Lady has drawn my attention has not been traced.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I can give him the registration of the marriage and that the two persons concerned were actually working in London on 11th December and certainly did not fulfil the twenty-one days' qualification? There is ample proof about where they were working on 11th December.

If the hon. Lady will give me that further information, I shall be glad to look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many of the 212,000 overseas visitors to Scotland last summer came by air transport and how many by sea; and, of these, how many entered via the Clyde.

I am informed by the Scottish Tourist Board that from the beginning of June to the end of September, 1955, some 26,300 people from overseas entered Scotland at Prestwick Airport; 3,700 disembarked on the Clyde and 1.200 at Scottish East Coast ports; the rest arrived via other parts of the United Kingdom.

The Question refers to overseas visitors. Is the Minister aware that in his reply he covers only about 30,000 visitors? How, then, did the remaining 180,000 overseas visitors come into Scotland?

By train or road.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I was informed last Tuesday that 75,000 of these people came from the United States. Upon what railway did they travel when coming from the United States?

I understand that they could have boarded a train at Kings Cross or Euston.

On a point of order. Is it in order, Mr. Speaker, for the Minister to supply information which is completely false? Last Tuesday I was told that 212,000 overseas visitors came to Scotland. The number is now reduced to 30,000. Which number is correct?

The hon. Member should not confuse himself. The figure given in the reply shows that out of 212,000 visitors only 31,000 arrived in Scotland direct. The others came via England. It is quite clear.

rose—

Order. The hon. Member intervened in the guise of a point of order which was not a point of order at all. He is merely trying to prolong the discussion. We have not time to have a discussion on every Question.

rose—

I have no time to deal further with that point of order. If the hon. Gentleman is rising to a fresh point of order, I am bound to listen to it, but it should be a true point of order.

Is it in order for a Minister to tell us that England comes under the designation of "overseas"?

I did not hear that said, and it has nothing to do with me, anyhow.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total hospital accommodation available in Glasgow for the treatment of chronic sick and old people living alone and incapable of looking after themselves.

The hospital service provides 1,112 beds in Glasgow specifically for chronic sick, and many other beds are always occupied by elderly patients in need of other forms of hospital treatment. In cases of the kind the hon. Lady has in mind, admission to local authority residential accommodation may be more appropriate, and the corporation has accommodation providing 1,511 places for this purpose.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that this is a very serious problem and that at the moment more than 800 are on the waiting list? What is he prepared to do about it?

I appreciate what the hon. Lady says. We still have a long way to go. The hospital authorities and the corporation both have in hand the provision of additional beds for this purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the plans of the Forestry Commission for new planting development in the counties of Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles.

In the counties of Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles the plantable area which is now held or shortly will be held by the Forestry Commission is nearly 9,000 acres, and it is hoped that about 4,800 acres of this will be planted or re-planted during the next three years. Negotiations are in hand for a further 1,700 acres.

While thanking my hon. Friend for his answer and welcoming the additions which he has announced, may I ask if he will give me an idea of the additional employment that it will provide in the way of foresters for the area?

In accordance with the Report on Post-War Forest Policy, the rough figure that is still used of the amount of employment over a continuous period is one man to each 100 acres on actual forest work.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what appointment he has given Mr. C. N. Fraser under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act; what salary it is intended to pay him; and what are his qualifications for the position.

Mr. C. N. Fraser holds no appointment and receives no salary under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act; but he has been designated to succeed the present senior counsel under that Act on his retiral in 1958. Mr. Fraser is an advocate of twenty-five years' standing and has been President of the Scottish Pensions Appeal Tribunal for the past ten years.

My Question is not a reflection on Mr. Fraser. Is the Joint Under-Secertary not aware that this designated appointment has been received with disgust by the profession in Scotland and is regarded as a piece of patronage by the Lord Advocate's Department? Will he reconsider the decision with a view to giving fair play to the learned junior counsel who has so diligently served in this office for the past seventeen years?

There is no evidence whatever that this has been received with disgust. [An HON. MEMBER: "Oh, Yes."] The procedure we have followed is entirely in accordance with custom. My right hon. Friend regarded Mr. Fraser as the best man for the job, and that is a perfectly good criterion.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Mr. Fraser has no experience in this office and very little experience at the Bar in general? What reason has he, with a reputation of that kind, for receiving this appointment?

The hon. Member saw my right hon. Friend, as he knows, and discussed the matter, and he has received a letter from my right hon. Friend. He should be assured that in this matter my right lion. Friend has done everything that is proper and in accordance with custom.

The Joint Under-Secretary said that there was no evidence of disquiet. Is he aware that a number of representations have been made by the Bar in Scotland because they feel that a great injustice is being done in this matter and that personal representations have been made to my hon. Friend for Leith (Mr. Hoy) and others on this side of the House? There can be no doubt that there is a great deal of feeling at the Scottish Bar about this appointment.

I can only repeat that we have no evidence of any such state of affairs.

In view of the unsatisfactory state of affairs and of the unsatisfactory answer which I have received from the Joint Under-Secretary of State, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what new major rural electricity schemes will be commenced in the counties of Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles during the next twelve months.

I am informed by the South of Scotland Electricity Board that they hope during the next twelve months to start schemes under which 101 farms and 536 other premises will be connected in the counties referred to.

While once more thanking my hon. Friend for his answer, may I ask whether any plan is envisaged to extend electricity to the Ettrick and Yarrow Valleys?

I am sorry that I cannot answer the detailed question. I shall be very glad to supply the information if my hon. and gallant Friend will see me.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how the installed capacity of electric power and/or output of electricity will be affected during the period 1956 to 1960 by the reduction in the capital investment programme 1956–57 of the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board; and how far such reduction is to be met by greater efficiency on the part of the Board.

The effect of the reduction in the capital investment programme for 1956 will be to postpone the commissioning at various dates between 1956 and 1959 of plant with a total installed capacity of 11,000 kilowatts and an average annual output of 50 million units.

Does not that reply illustrate the tremendous extravagance of this board? Does my hon. Friend realise that the tiny amount of electricity referred to accounts for an economy of several million pounds a year? On such grounds, why will he not accede to my request that there should be a full-scale independent inquiry into this squandermania in the Far North?

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) talked for about forty-five minutes on the Scottish Standing Committee to try to explain his point and that he has not explained it yet?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on what grounds, and with what financial effect, the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board's two small generating schemes in the islands of Lewis and Harris have been selected for indefinite postponement, in view of the possibilities of greater economies, with less public hardship, among the Board's other activities.

These two schemes, on which work had not begun but on which the Board expected to spend £100,000 in 1956, have been postponed (along with others) to reduce capital expenditure. There will be no immediate effect on electricity supplies in Lewis and Harris, which will continue to be supplied by diesel plant; and the position will be reviewed at the end of this year.

Why was it necessary to cut out the two small schemes in this area when two new schemes are being started in Roxburgh and the other places just mentioned in the previous Question? The local diesel supply is much more expensive. Why has that contradiction in the activities of the Board been allowed? Secondly, is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that diesel supplies have to be brought for forty or sixty miles from Stornoway? Does he regard that as economical?

The hon. Gentleman is quite right; a diesel supply is more expensive. It is the intention of the Board to supply hydro-electric power, but there had to be some postponement in order to meet the wishes of the Government to curtail capital expenditure. The Roxburgh scheme is quite different, and is a distribution measure.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that a few hon. Members and many people in Scotland would not disagree with the last sentence of the hon. Gentleman's Question, namely, that there is a very considerably greater scope for economy by the Board than it has at present exercised?

Hear, hear. Just what I have been saying for years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Herring Industry Board intends to develop herring processing in the Uist and Barra areas of the Hebrides.

The Herring Industry Board does not consider that a processing plant in the Uist or Barra areas could be economic.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Herring Industry Board has already a plant in the Stornoway area, and that it might very well be glad of supplies to feed it from the Uist and Barra areas—and would have been glad of them in the last few years? Is it the policy of the Board, as has happened in Shetland, to wait until the Russians come to exploit the local herring fishing industry?

As the hon. Member knows as well as I do, we have made great developments in Stornoway and are proposing to undertake further developments in order to make it a great herring port. In those circumstances, I do not think he has reasonable grounds for complaint.

On a point of order. I wish to give notice that because of the recurrently unsatisfactory replies which I have been getting for about ten years now, I shall raise this at the earliest possible moment on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the continued operations of the Soviet herring fleets off the coast of Shetland he will consult with the Herring Industry Board, with a view to it taking steps to revive the Shetland winter herring fishing.

The Board informs me that in recent years it has considered the possibility of reviving the Shetland winter herring fishing but the response from the fishermen and the difficulty of finding a profitable market for the catch did not encourage it to pursue its inquiries. It would, however, be glad to consider any specific proposals.

While thanking the Joint Under-Secretary for that Answer, may I ask him if he will consider the profitable market that appears to exist in Russia, and will he not open negotiations with the Russians to see if it might not be cheaper from their point of view if we caught the herrings and traded them with the Russians? Or, if the Russians insist on catching the herring themselves, why should they not use the excellent shore facilities that exist in Shetland?

The Board is in touch, I understand, with the Russians, but the real trouble, I am told, is that the Board could not get the local fishermen to take up this fishing again which, pre-First World War, was very profitable.

In view of recent happenings in Norway, can the Joint Under-Secretary for Scotland say that he is satisfied that there has been no infringement of territorial waters on the part of these fishermen? If there have been, are there enough fishery protection vessels to deal with that?

I should require to have notice of that Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action has been taken in Scotland in respect of the recommendation of the Select Committee on Estimates Report on the Fire Services 1953–54.

I assume the hon. Member is referring to the recommendation applying exclusively to Scotland, namely, that recruits should serve for a preliminary period with their brigade before going to the training school. In practice they normally do; and after consulting all the interests concerned my right hon. Friend decided that no special action on his part was necessary.

I think that I have had a very limited reply to my Question, because surely Scotland is equally covered by the suggestion that there should have been reviews of standards of cover. Can we have any information about that?

We did not know quite to what question the hon. Member referred, in that that particular recommendation concerned both the English and Scottish Departments. It is now being considered. The Fire Brigades Advisory Council for England, Wales and Scotland have appointed a joint committee to deal with standards of fire cover.

Will the hon. Gentleman ensure that in any such review that takes place there will be no reduction of standards of cover in the rural areas, in view of the changes that have taken place in agriculture during the past ten or twelve years?

I certainly hope not.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why Shetland is called Zetland in official documents.

The official title of the county was carefully considered in 1931 when in accordance with the wishes of the county council, it was decided to recognise and use the form "Zetland." Statutory authority for this form is now contained in the Local Government (Scotland) Act, 1947.

I am disposing of the rumour that it was due originally to bad hand-writing in the Scottish Office. It is all very confusing. There is the excellent Shetland wool and there are Shetland ponies, but Zetland County Council, and, as for the hon. Member for the constituency, I may say that he is in some doubt as to what his title is.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what change is proposed in the policy of the Government as regards marginal subsidies and other measures designed to assist the poorer and more remote farms.

I assume the hon. Gentleman is referring to marginal agricultural production schemes. The assistance given under the present schemes is under consideration but I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

While it is under consideration, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is great need for capital assistance to these poorer farms, and that there is considerable anxiety in my constituency at the moment owing to the tendency which is believed there to exist for the Scottish Office to cut down on these grants.

Yes, Sir, that will be borne in mind. There is no foundation at all for the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he includes grant assisted expenditure on community centres in mining areas as expenditure by local authorities which should now be delayed.

Local authorities were informed on 17th February that new loans or grants would, for the time being, be sanctioned only in cases of special urgency. Any proposal by a local authority to incur expenditure on community centres will be judged by this criterion.

Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that many of these new mining villages are isolated and badly need special community centres; and will he not put them in the category of urgency?

I cannot prejudge the issue. Each case will be considered on its merits within the context of my reply.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) if he has considered the evidence submitted to him by the right hon. Member for Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire, that many old people are living below bare subsistence level owing to inability to get houses at small rents; and whether he will investigate the problem;

(2) whether he will, through the Scottish Special Housing Association or otherwise, take steps for the provision of suitable and reasonably rented small houses so as to enable old people to retain a larger proportion of their income for food.

Local authorities are encouraged to provide small houses for old people and have built a substantial number for this purpose since the war. It is for the local authority to fix reasonable rents, and they have power to grant rent rebates where necessary. I have no detailed evidence of the financial difficulties of old people such as are referred to, but if the right hon. Gentleman gives me information about any particular cases, I shall be glad to make inquiries.

I take it that the hon. Gentleman has seen the report of the welfare officers who met at Stirling and who, I take it, were representative of the local authorities in Scotland? One of the complaints in the report was that because they cannot get suitable houses old people are compelled to occupy much bigger and more expensive houses than they can afford, and that therefore they have not enough money left to buy food. Will the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends take that into account and ask the local authorities to look into the question to see whether anything can be done?

I am most sympathetic with the problems of old people, and I appreciate that we still have a long way to go in the provision of accommodation Concerning rents, those old people who are worst off are able to draw their entire rent, whether high or low, from National Assistance, and there are still far too many old people who ought to do this but, as we all know, do not do so.

When consulting the local authorities on 20th April and discussing subsidies, will the Secretary of State make it clear that he does not propose to withdraw the subsidy for this type of house?

That matter will be taken into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends meeting the local authorities to discuss housing subsidies and future housing policy.

My right hon. Friend has invited the local authority associations to meet him for this purpose on Friday, 20th April.

May we take it that the very high interest rates at present being charged to local authorities for house building purposes will be discussed at this meeting? Will the right hon. Gentleman remember the special needs of Scotland in regard to housing, and not follow the example which we have had south of the Border?

The answer is "Yes" to both questions.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from the Glasgow Corporation regarding the acquisition of 500 acres of ground in the Summerston area for the purpose of building 5,000 houses and if he will make a statement.

Glasgow Corporation has recently reported its desire to build approximately 5,000 houses on land at Summerston and its failure to get clearance from the agricultural executive committee and the National Coal Board. My right hon. Friend is having inquiries made into the objections raised and will write to the corporation as soon as possible.

Is the hon. Member aware that the corporation has sought to acquire this ground upon the recommendation of his right hon. Friend? Will he therefore look favourably upon Glasgow Corporation, and try to overcome the artificial objections of the National Coal Board and the agricultural executive committee?

I can assure the hon. Member that my right hon. Friend is aware of the importance and urgency of this matter, and will do his best to find the right solution.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will, in order to attract industry to Cumbernauld New Town, provide factory accommodation at the same rentals as those operating in Scottish Industrial Estate factories.

The development corporation, which is responsible for providing for industry within the new town, is required by the New Towns Act to obtain a reasonable return on its capital outlays; it has no power to subsidise factory building or factory rents.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that unless the Scottish Office or his right hon. Friend gives some guidance and direction, and applies the principle of the Distribution of Industry Act and the New Towns Act, we shall not be able to attract new industry to Cumbernauld?

As things are at present, I have every reason to believe that Cumbernauld will prove attractive to industry, and that industry will pay economic rents.

Does not the hon. Gentleman appreciate that those Glasgow firms who go out to the industrial estates get factory accommodation at the rent of 1s. 3d. per square foot, whereas, if they have to pay an economic rent to a development corporation, they cannot possibly obtain accommodation at less than 4s. a square foot?

Future policy about the extent to which subsidised rented factories—for example, those in the Scottish Industrial Estates, such as Hillington—should be provided in Development Areas, is under consideration by the Board of Trade in the light of a report by the Select Committee on Estimates. which suggested, not that unsubsidised rents would be too high, but that rents of factories in Scottish Industrial Estates are a good deal too low.

Is not the hon. Member aware that what he has now said means, in effect, that he will sabotage Cumbernauld before it is started? It is criminal to suggest that future policy is under consideration when he has already given authority to proceed with this new town.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now issue a circular letter to local authorities on houses for ex-Regular troops, similar to the one issued by the Minister of Housing and Local Government on 8th March, 1955.

No, Sir. Two circulars have already been issued to local authorities on this subject, and my right hon. Friend's Department has a special arrangement with Scottish Command to take up with the local authorities concerned any individual case of difficulty.

Is it not revealed in a recent case which I brought to the notice of the Secretary of State for Scotland that the well-run Royal Burgh of Thurso has no idea at all of the special rights of Regular ex-Service men? Is he also aware that I am wholly convinced that the three burghs in my constituency know nothing about this matter? Why is he persistently asking the local authorities to read a chapter of a booklet on housing needs, plus a circular sent out in 1950, plus another circular sent out in 1953, and an Answer to a Parliamentary Question? Is that not wholly unreasonable when, in England, a short snappy circular has been issued?

Inquiries which the Department made in 1954 confirmed that the great majority of local authorities in Scotland were giving special consideration to ex-Service men, and I am sure that my hon. Friend's statement will have further drawn the matter to the attention of his own local authority.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will use his powers under Section 48 of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1950, to direct the Burgh of Wick and Caithness County Council to prepare and submit to him forthwith proposals for the rehousing of the inhabitants of Hillhead Quarry, Caithness.

The Town Council of Wick, in whose area the quarry is situated, is making good progress with its housing programme, and my right hon. Friend would not feel justified in taking such action as my hon. Friend suggests. He is, however, in touch with the council about the rehousing of the families in question and will write to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.

Is it not the case that there are six families living in huts 8 ft. by 4 ft., that four of the fathers are ex-Service men—one a Regular ex-Service man—and that a deputation which went there found them living in conditions of squalor and great distress! Will my hon. Friend not see his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and have succour brought to those families immediately?

My right hon. Friend has arranged for a general inspector to visit Wick as soon as possible and to report, and I think that my hon. Friend will wish to await that report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will implement the promise made by his Department to the students at Jordanhill Training College in 1951–52, to limit the period of training to two terms for certain students.

The concession of a reduced course of training for ex-Service men was still in force when the students concerned entered the Special Recruitment Scheme in 1951 and 1952. The form originally sent to them by the National Committee for the Training of Teachers, therefore, specified the grant they would receive for a university course and for a training course of two terms. The National Committee ended the concession from 1953–54 in order to restore normal training standards. It was made clear to the students concerned before they entered the training college in 1955 that they would be required to complete a full course, and they all accepted this without protest. I can see no justification for exempting them from this requirement.

Has not the hon. Gentleman given thought to the question of a contract? I have here a copy of a contract. Has the Minister taken legal advice about this contract? It is not the time to do so after these people have signed. Is not 1955 rather late in the day for the officers of his Department to change the terms of a contract which these people entered into in 1951–52.

The hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. As I explained to him when he was good enough to see me the other day, there is no contract here at all.

Is not the Minister aware that these young men were attracted to the university by grants which meant that they could be teachers only, and that when they were attracted to take this course they were informed that they would have only two sessions to do'? Whether that is technically a contract or not is a matter of opinion, but does not he agree that, because of this change in circumstances, there has indeed been a breach of faith with these people?

No, with respect. If the hon. Lady would be kind enough to look at the papers which I will gladly present to her, she will see that throughout the years a change was made and the men ought to have noticed it. I made all that plain to the hon. Member.

I wish to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much of the proposed £10 million building programme for the central institutions and local technical colleges mentioned in Command Paper No. 9703, Technical Education, it is expected to start within the next two years.

I hope that about £3 million will be started, but much depends on the speed with which sites are acquired and plans prepared by the local authorities and central institutions concerned.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that this statement, together with the statement repeated twice in the White Paper, that building in Scotland will be started in five years, compares very badly, from the point of view of immediacy and urgency, with the English statement, namely, that a five-year programme of development will be put in hand immediately?

I was trying to be cautious about this matter. I hope that the figure of £3 million will be exceeded, but we feel tolerably sure that at least a programme involving that expenditure will be started within the period mentioned.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that grave fears exist in Scotland in connection with this programme, when it is compared with the 40 per cent. delay in the school buildings which were supposed to be started in Scotland in 1955? Can the hon. Gentleman give us any guarantee that there will be no delays in this £3 million worth of building for technical education?

The hon. Lady knows that I cannot guarantee that kind of thing. I can only tell her that the information in our possession leads us confidently to believe that this will be done.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the total number of student places in scientific and technical subjects at present available in the central institutions; and to what number this total will be raised by the new building programme.

The Central (Technical) Institutions are estimated to have about 3,200 places for day students. Extensions at present under construction and further extensions envisaged will provide about 1,500 additional places.

To what extent does the hon. Member calculate that that provision will go any distance at all, beyond meeting the increase in student numbers due to the bulge in population? Is it not the case that that is roughly the amount which would be needed to meet that bulge, and that there will be no proportionate increase in the number of places available for technical students?

I would not quarrel too much with the hon. Member in that statement. If we can get more we shall. What we have said is that that is our minimum object. We should like local authorities to do more.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many additional teachers will be required to implement the recently-announced programme for technical education; and how he proposes to recruit these teachers.

When the proposed extended facilities for technical education are fully in operation, it is estimated that a further 500 to 600 full-time teachers will be required. It is hoped that these teachers will be recruited from among the present large number of part-time further education teachers, from industry, and from among school teachers.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that this is one of the parts of the White Paper with reference to Scotland where there is an obvious gap? We have been given little or no information about the supply of teachers. Will he take an early opportunity to expand his statement?

I should like very much to have such an opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent buildings for the purposes of technical education form part of the present arrears of school building in Scotland.

All the major projects for technical education which were expected to start in 1955–56 have done so.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the school building programme in Ayrshire is in arrears.

Two major projects estimated to cost £98,000, which were included in the building programme submitted by the education authority a year ago for starting during the present financial year, now appear unlikely to start in that period.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us what those projects are, and when they will start?

Yes, Sir. They are, first, a new primary school of which the hon. Gentleman knows, and secondly an extension of Prestwick High School; the first has been held up by the Dean of Guild Court decision and the second because of delay by the architects. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have appointed a working party from the Department and the local authority to speed up all this effort. I cannot give the time, but we should like it to be as fast as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the school building programme for non-technical purposes will now be delayed as the result of the decisions to permit no increase in capital expenditure programmes for education and to give priority to the programme for technical education.

As the hon. Member will see from the circular, of which I am sending him a copy, there have been no such decisions and it is not intended to postpone any essential school projects. Before deciding to what extent it will be necessary to postpone less essential projects in the next six months we shall have to see what is the total volume of work that education authorities will be ready to start in that period.

asked the Minister of Works how much litter was left in the Royal Parks during 1955; the cost of its removal; and the proportion thereof placed in litter baskets, together with such details as to the amounts left in individual parks on Bank Holidays, or other specific dates, as is convenient.

I estimate that about

asked the Minister of Works how many tyres and inner tubes have been taken over by his Department from the Ministry of Supply surplus stocks since 1st January, 1954; and how

Whilst thanking my right hon. Friend for promising to circulate the details, may I ask what steps he proposes to take to reduce the considerable proportion of litter still left upon the ground in the Royal Parks, despite the provision of numerous litter baskets?

There has, of course, been publicity and an instructional campaign, but I think it would lose effect if we had that all the time. I may say that in the next financial year there will be 200 more baskets provided in Hyde Park, and certainly the park keepers will watch the situation and warn people who are seen throwing litter about.

Will the right hon. Gentleman state what proportion of the 350 tons was empty bottles?

I should require to have notice of that question.

Since 1st January, 1954, 2,953 tyres and 1,362 tubes have been obtained by my Department from the Ministry of Supply, which has running contracts on behalf of all Departments with the suppliers. I understand that some of these tyres and tubes were from surplus stocks. One hundred and sixty-eight tyres and 24 tubes of special types not in general use were obtained directly from the trade by my Department.

Is the Minister aware that the Answer that he has just given is necessary as part of a jigsaw puzzle which, when completed, will reveal an astonishing waste of public money?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman regards the Answer as very satisfactory.

It helps me considerably.

asked the Minister of Works what his Department now pays for one ton of cement; and the cost to his Department in February, 1939.

In London now 95s. and in 1939 38s. 11d.

In view of that big increase in price during that period, does the right hon. Gentleman not think it exposes in a new light the boasts of hon. Gentlemen opposite about the cement trade not increasing, the price still further?

If one takes 100 as the base figure, in the case of all building materials prices are over three times what they were in 1939, of bricks three times, and of cement only two and a half times.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this increase is considerably less than the increase in the price of coal between those two dates?

asked the Minister of Works what success his Department is having with the experimental use of various devices to prevent starlings from roosting on public buildings and monuments in Trafalgar Square, and other places in London, where they cause nuisance.

I fear the recent experiments, like earlier ones, have been unsuccessful.

Is my right hon. Friend playing a lone hand against the starlings that are found in public places in central London, or has he called in aid the ingenuity of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research to see if it can clear them off?

Everything is being called in aid. As my hon. Friend knows, we tried an ultra-sonic vibrator, because it was thought the birds would hear that and human beings would not, but it does not seem to work. Experiments are now being made with a low-power loud speaker which makes a low whistling noise.

Can the Minister say where he expects the birds to go to when they leave this particular place?

asked the Minister of Works whether he has any statement to make about the future of the bridge over the lake in St. James's Park.

I will, with the permission of the House, reply to this Question at the end of Questions.

asked the Minister of Works how much was spent on new office premises for Government Departments in London during the past year; and how much will be spent in the coming year.

It is estimated that £197,000 will be spent in the current financial year and £615,000 in the financial year 1956–57. Of these totals the new building in Whitehall Gardens accounts for £160,000 and £530,000 respectively.

Does this not represent a tremendous increase in the forthcoming year compared with the past year; and is this to be regarded as a good example to other people to economise when this office building spree is being followed so lavishly by the present Administration?

I am sure the hon. and gallant Gentleman knows that there is no office building spree, and that large projects of Government building have been stopped altogether. This building had been begun; half of it has been built, and the other half is now rising from the ground, or will be in the next year.

Is not it rather extraordinary that, at a time when the Government are slowing down school building and house building, this very large office building in central London should be going forward; is not this a good case for economy, and last October did not the then Chancellor say that Government building of offices was to cease in this year?

Yes, and the right hon. Gentleman knows quite well that the Colonial Office and other buildings have been stopped completely. This building is half finished, and it would be most expensive and uneconomic to stop it at this stage.

asked the Minister of Works what further expenditure he estimates will be incurred on the building of Government offices in Whitehall Gardens.

About £1,710,000.