asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many crimes for which flogging was formerly awardable took place in 1948 when that punishment was abolished; what are the figures for the latest available year; and what have been the figures for other years since 1945.

As the answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend say whether these figures show that since 1948 these crimes for which this punishment was awardable have dropped? Could he tell me the figure for 1948 and the latest figure at his disposal?

I think my hon. Friend will see from the figures which I shall circulate that the tendency is definitely for the crimes to have dropped. Although there are queer fluctuations from year to year, the tendency throughout is for the figures to drop.

Will the Home Secretary give an assurance that, in view of these figures, he will stand firm against the rather irresponsible attempts to reintroduce flogging?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, in view of the great increase in crimes of violence since the abolition of corporal punishment, he will consider introducing legislation to restore this penalty in appropriate cases.

No. Sir. Before corporal punishment was abolished as a judicial penalty in September, 1948, the principal offences for which it could be inflicted were offences under Section 23 (1) of the Larceny Act, 1916, that is, robbery with violence, armed robbery and robbery in company with others. Since 1948 there has been a fairly steady decrease in the number of such offences known to the police.

While thanking my right hon. and gallant Friend for his reply, may I ask whether he is aware that, despite the decrease since 1948 which he has mentioned, the figures are still several times greater than they were before the war? [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Will my right hon. and gallant Friend further take into account crimes of violence generally, and particularly those of felonious and malicious wounding, which increased by 50 per cent. between 1948 and 1954? Will he take this and similar matters into account when reviewing this subject again?

Many of the crimes of violence were not those for which the offender was liable to flogging before the abolition. Whilst we all deplore the increase in crimes of violence since 1946, the fact remains that the figures which I am publishing in the OFFICIAL REPORT show that, although there has been a fluctuation from year to year, the trend has been on the downward side.

Is the Home Secretary aware that he has the full support of the great majority of people in the House in resisting the irrational sentiments of this proposal?

No.

Does my right hon. and gallant Friend not see the application of the principle of this trend in the Bill which is now before the House?

Not altogether, because we have the lowest figure in the world on the other one.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how the prices of commodities manufactured in prison workshops for sale to the public are computed.

Articles are not normally manufactured in prison workshops for direct sale to the public. A small number of gymnasium mats have been sold to wholesalers for resale to the public. The price of these articles is fixed so that it will not, so far as can be ascertained, undercut prices charged for similar articles by outside manufacturers.

Is the Home Secretary aware that I do not want in any way to hamper the constructive work being done in prison workshops, but there have been complaints from one or two areas that some of the products made in prison workshops have been sold at uneconomic prices to the detriment of products made, for instance, in workshops for the blind? Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman see that the prison products are sold at properly competitive prices?

I will certainly consider that suggestion. A large number of the products made in prisons are sold to Government Departments. We do our best to see that the costs that we add to the cost of manufacture bear some relation to costs outside, but I will look into the matter.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend draw the attention of the public to the existence of these commodities which are available? Is he aware that, owing to his courtesy, I recently visited Wandsworth Prison, where I gather there is a considerable difficulty in disposing of these products to the public?

I will consider my hon. Friend's suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that, from January, 1955 to March, 1956, 14 cases of eye injury were dealt with in St. Paul's Eye Hospital, Liverpool, due to injury by airgun pellets; that in all cases either the eye had to be removed or the sight was destroyed; and if, in view of this serious position, he will introduce legislation to make the sale of airguns illegal, excepting under licence as for firearms.

I have made inquiries and I am told that the hospital records show only four cases during the period mentioned. I have no evidence to suggest that there has been an increase in accidents caused by air weapons since the report in 1934 of the Departmental Committee on whose recommendations the existing law is based.

Is the Home Secretary not aware that this matter requires urgent attention? Is he further aware that since this Question has been on the Order Paper I have received correspondence from all over the country, and that this week there have appeared in the Press two cases of eye injury caused by airguns? Is he also aware that I have quoted the actual figures from St. Paul's Eye Hospital at Liverpool and that there can be no question about those figures? Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman look into this matter, because there is very grave public concern, and it requires immediate legislation?

I would not go so far as to agree with the hon. Lady that the matter requires immediate legislation, because the figures, taking the country as a whole, are no different from what they were when the Committee made the report. I am, however, a little worried about the discrepancy in the figures. The figure which the hon. Lady has mentioned is 14. I have had inquiries made through the police and, according to the entry on the books at the hospital, the figure is only four. There is such a big discrepancy that I shall be glad to look into the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of the concern felt by many people interested in the preservation of our native song birds at the effect of the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, which does not safeguard the nests of robins, skylarks and song thrushes against spoliation; and if he will take action to remedy this situation.

Under the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, it is an offence to destroy or damage the nests of robins, skylarks and song thrushes.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman now give further consideration to the undertaking that he gave me some months ago that if it were found that the Act of 1954 was not working satisfactorily he would consider bringing forward Amendments? In view of the growing volume of opinion that many of our native birds are being exposed to spoliation of their nests in the springtime, will he give further consideration to this aspect of the matter?

I will certainly consider any evidence that may be brought forward, but I think that the hon. Gentleman is mixing up two things: destruction of the nests and the taking of birds' eggs. When passing the Act referred to, Parliament quite clearly decided—and we should realise our responsibility—not to make criminals of small boys who take birds' eggs in the ordinary way. That was the wish to Parliament, and I am only carrying it out.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will now consider extending Summer Time this year to the end of November.

No, Sir. I have nothing to add to the answer I gave the hon. Member on 8th March.

Will the Home Secretary not give this matter some thought and consider it again? Last October, at the end of a wonderful summer, there was great disappointment among the people at the loss of an hour's daylight and sunshine. Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that there is overwhelming public opinion in favour of a longer Summer Time, and will he look into the matter?

I should be prepared to look into anything, but I would remind the hon. Gentleman that the times agreed under the Statute are come to as a result of compromise. What is very agreeable in some parts of the country is totally disagreeable in other parts, and we have to do the best we can to get a compromise and meet the wishes of the majority. I am prepared to look into the question again, but we have to consider the country as a whole and not parts of it.

I am glad that my right hon. and gallant Friend is to look into this matter again with a view to extending Summer Time at least to the end of October. It always struck me as being rather early.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the fact that the average earnings of prisoners in local prisons amounts to 2s. 6d. weekly for flat-rate workers and 2s. 9d. for piece-rate workers, what changes he contemplates in the present system of payment which would result in greater output and efficiency and would assist prisoners on their return to normal life; and when he hopes to put these changes into effect.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what decision he has now reached with regard to increasing the scale of payment for piece-work done by prisoners to enable them to value more what constructive work they do and to allow them, by their own efforts, to accumulate savings which can be used by them to rehabilitate themselves on their release.

A scheme has been prepared for improving the present system of prisoners' earnings which will, I hope, have the effect of increasing output and this will be put into effect as soon as financial considerations permit.

Whilst thanking the Home Secretary for that reply, which I am sure will be very acceptable, may I ask him whether, in order to give effect to the fine sentiments he expressed at the weekend, and in order to improve the position of prisoners so that they will be better able to lead normal life outside, he will make the changes very soon and will press the Treasury very hard on the matter?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I am very interested in these matters. It is very important to attend not only to what happens to these prisoners when they get outside but to what happens to them while they are inside.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many hours prisoners are now working weekly in local prisons; and what action he is taking which would result in a longer and more productive working week.

The hours worked vary from one local prison to another and range generally between 23 and 28 hours weekly for men's prisons. Increasing the working hours is mainly a matter of getting more staff for supervision; I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Hyde) on 19th April about recruiting.

While appreciating that answer, may I ask the Home Secretary whether he is not aware that some of the prisoners are not even working 20 hours a week? Should there not be some kind of conference with the people responsible for prison officers to see whether further action can be taken to speed up recruitment for the prison service in order to give a longer working day in the prisons?

As my hon. Friend pointed out in answering the Question to which I have just referred, since the new pay award the number of inquiries from people who want to come into the prison service has greatly increased.

Could not something be done to use star prisoners as foremen and thus to some extent get over the difficulties of supervision and give them a sense of responsibility which will prepare them for normal life?

I would not like to answer that question without notice. I should certainly like to look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the maximum weekly sum a prisoner in a local prison can earn on flat-rate and piecework, respectively.

Four shillings is the maximum for flat rates; there is no maximum fixed for piece-work rates.

Is not my right hon. and gallant Friend aware that the earnings he has mentioned are still the lowest in the world? Could he press forward with whatever steps he has in mind to improve the position and enable prisoners to save something to give them a fresh start in life when they are released?

As my hon. Friend will remember, I answered Questions earlier and said that I had a scheme prepared for that.

Will the Home Secretary take steps to recommend these prisoners to invest this money in Premium Bonds?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the plans for the provision of accommodation for women officers at Strange-ways Prison, Manchester, have now been finally approved; and when he expects the work to be carried out.

A scheme to replace the present quarters inside the walls by a new hostel outside has been approved. Details are being worked out and the plans are almost complete. Work is expected to start this year.

When visiting this prison with another hon. Member recently I was informed that, much to the dissatisfaction of the staff, the plans for these improvements had been declined by the Treasury. May we take it now that these plans are approved and will be put into operation as quickly as the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has suggested?

The hon. Gentleman will have to take the last part of my answer at its word, which is that the work is expected to be started this year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make a statement on the security arrangements for the present visit to this country by Marshal Bulganin and Mr. Khrushchev.

No, Sir; it would not be in the public interest to make such a statement.

Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware that, while there is very great appreciation of their courtesy and of the efficient way in which the police have been carrying out their strange, unaccustomed and difficult duties, it would be as well to feel that in any future event such as this there will be a much nearer approximation to the normal British arrangements than what we have had to put up with during the past week?

It can be truly said that if precautions are successful they are inclined to be excessive and if they are not it is the other way round. I am sure that my hon. Friend will appreciate that it would hardly be of value to disclose what the security arrangements are.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proportion of the time of the Metropolitan Police is now spent on crime detection and prevention, and traffic duties, respectively.

About 13 per cent. of the actual strength of the Metropolitan Police are engaged whole-time in the Criminal Investigation Department and about 8 per cent. are employed whole-time on traffic duties. It is not possible to say precisely what proportion of the time of other members of the Force is devoted to these duties, respectively, but it has been estimated that a constable on ordinary street duty for a period of eight hours spends about 17 per cent. of his time directly on crime detection and prevention and about 6 per cent. directly on traffic duties.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that it is not long ago that the police did fire-fighting service as well and that when the firefighting service became large enough it was separated from the police? Now that road traffic duties have become so great, will he not also take road traffic duties away from the police? If he is not prepared to do so, what is he going to do to increase recruiting for the police force?

That is another question. We are doing everything we can to increase recruitment to the police force by every means. The hon. Gentleman should appreciate that traffic duties and criminal duties are not necessarily mutually exclusive, because many cases in connection with traffic duties are connected with crime. We cannot possibly separate them.

Would not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman agree that the key to the problem is whether or not the duties one talks about require police powers, like powers of arrest? If they require powers of that kind, is it not advisable that those powers should be exercised only by the fully-trained police force?

The right hon. Gentleman is quite right. It is a very tricky problem, as he appreciates, to have other special forces simply dealing with traffic problems where traffic affairs are often connected with criminal affairs, and it would be very difficult to differentiate between them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will review the law relating to cruelty to children, as at present offences against property draw heavier sentences than those against children.

Section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, which provides penalties for certain offences of cruelty to children, will be within the terms of reference of the Committee, the proposed appointment of which I announced on 2nd February.

While thanking the Home Secretary for that answer, and while pointing out that I am not personally, in general, in favour of very heavy prison sentences, may I ask him whether he will also look at the cases reported in the newspapers, from which it seems that most brutal assaults on children draw much lighter sentences than crimes against property or, indeed, crimes against adults?

I have no doubt at all that in many cases sentences are given which are far below those which could be given, but that does not show that the law itself is deficient. This Committee is going to look into these matters when it is appointed.

Will the Home Secretary at the same time give consideration to the question of the early recognition of cruelty to children, because in most cases which come before the courts there is a record of months or even years of cruelty up to that time which has not been recognised by the authorities?

While I will certainly do that, I am sure the hon. Gentleman appreciates that in some cases it is not always easy to get the information. That is the difficulty.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department by what authority an inscription was removed from a wreath laid at the Cenotaph by representatives of the N.T.S., the Russian anti-Communist organisation.

The inscription was removed on the instructions of a senior police officer, who considered that to allow it to remain on the wreath might well give rise to breaches of the peace.

Does not my right hon. and gallant Friend feel that this action was uncalled for and unnecessary, particularly in view of the fact that the inscription was perfectly normal? Is he aware there is a certain anxiety that recent security measures are tending to cause the police to act in a manner to which we are not accustomed in this country and which, quite frankly, we do not like?

I am afraid that I have to disagree with my hon. and gallant Friend on that. I have never seen such courtesy displayed in very difficult circumstances at any time that I can remember. As for the removal of the inscription, this is a matter of opinion, but I am sure the whole House will agree with me that the use of the Cenotaph for political purposes would be greatly deplored.

Is the Minister aware that we all regard the Cenotaph as a national shrine and that anyone who seeks to advance political views by attaching a slogan to a wreath becomes offensive to people of all parties?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will state for the last 12 months the number of persons who have been convicted of street betting in the Metropolitan Police area and in the county borough of West Ham, respectively; and what was the total amount of fines imposed.

During the year 1955, 5,203 persons were convicted in the Metropolitan Police District for offences against the Street Betting Act, 1906. Fines and costs, which cannot easily be separated, amounted to £52,440. The corresponding figures for the county borought of West Ham were 423 and £10,300, respectively.

Could the Home Secretary give an explanation why these people are being prosecuted when they are small bookmakers, whereas the big bookmakers are illegally placing advertisements in all the national Press every day and are carrying on illegal post betting? Both the Home Secretary and the Attorney-General refuse to take action against them. Why not treat the small bookmaker and the big bookmaker alike? Will he not prosecute these people if I submit to him further evidence to that already in his possession?

The whole of this question is one which comes within the larger question of the reform of the law which, as I have announced to the House, we propose to undertake at the earliest possible opportunity.

In view of the fact that the Minister appears to be under some misapprehension, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many unconvicted persons are at present detained in Borstal institutions.

If the hon. and gallant Member's Question refers to those persons at present detained in Borstal institutions who are undergoing Borstal training without having been convicted of any criminal offence, the answer is three.

Is it not a very deplorable state of affairs that there should be even three young people in Borstal who have not been convicted of or sentenced on any charge at all? How does it come about that unconvicted persons are in Borstal?

It may be deplorable, but it happens to be the law. Those three young girls were sent to an approved school as the result of a probation order. They absconded from the approved school and, under the Act of 1948, were put into Borstal.

The Act of 1948.

They still have not broken the law.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has now decided what action to take on the Report of the Hurst Committee on the adoption of children.

I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to the reply that I gave on 7th March to the hon. and learned Member for Brigg (Mr. E. L. Mallalieu).

Is not the Home Secretary aware that the Report exposed too many loopholes in the present law permitting the sending of children abroad for adoption and a black market, especially in illegitimate babies? Why is he not doing something about this Report, which was submitted to him in September, 1954, even though certain hon. Members on his side of the House are not a bit interested in the matter?

As I have told the hon. and gallant Member before, this requires legislation, and I see no hope of that at the present time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if the Inter-departmental Committee on Home Safety have studied the research work done by the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research on materials for flammability; and what action the committee intend to take to have the information acquired by this research widely known.

Yes, Sir. The test of flammability of thin flexible materials devised by the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has been incorporated in a British Standard issued by the British Standards Institution. This is, however, simply a method of test, and wider publicity for it will not of itself reduce the number of accidents. The Committee attach greater importance to the finding of a cheap and effective method of flame-proofing clothing materials and I welcome the efforts being made by the trade to this end.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that we are glad that we have a British Standard but that it recognises only the figure of merit material, whereas the great danger is in the sale of the cheap, highly inflammable material? Could not advertisements be placed in the newspapers, or some similar action taken, apart altogether from labelling, stating the time of flammability for certain materials?

I will consider, that, although I think that an even better way is the effort which is being made now by the trade to make flame-proof clothing which has already been made.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will ask the Interdepartmental Committee on Home Safety to furnish reports on the incidence of fatal accidents where these are highest in the cities and burghs of Britain so that concentrated propaganda may be stimulated in the areas where it is most required.

The figures are not available.

It is a great tragedy that they are not available, and I should like the Home Secretary to try to have them made available as soon as possible. Would he not agree that if we pin-pointed certain cities, showing their very high death rates through accidents, it would be a spur to these cities themselves to take action in dealing with accidents in the homes?

It is not an easy matter, I assure the hon. Lady, because if, for example, there were an accident which involved a number of lives, it would put the figures for that particular place out of all proportion. It is not an easy matter to get figures which would be of value throughout the whole country. But I am prepared to look into this.

Does not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman recognise that we already do this about road accidents, pinpointing dangerous corners and dangerous cross roads, but that we are doing nothing about home accidents?

While the Home Secretary is gathering further information on this very important question, would he pay particular attention to the large amount of defective electric apparatus of all kinds, which is badly constructed and ill-designed, which is being let loose in the British homes and which in itself is a major factor in causing many home accidents?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action is directed by his Department to lower the casualty rate of accidents in the home; and what agencies are used for this purpose.

The design of houses and household appliances and education of the public are important factors in reducing casualties caused by accidents in the home. Advice on the design of houses is given in manuals issued by the Ministry of Housing and Local Government, and on the design of appliances by committees of the British Standards Institution on which representatives of various Departments serve. Education is given in schools and by propaganda by a number of agencies, including the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents. These various activities are co-ordinated by the Standing Interdepartmental Committee.

Is not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that accidents in the homes cause thousands more deaths per annum than accidents on the roads? Is he aware that the Minister of Transport has told me that he gives £262,000 per annum for propaganda, whereas the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has told me that he is stopping any further grant to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents in the Homes?

I can only say that the machinery for co-ordinating the activities of the various agencies which are concerned in the matter is working well. It is a regrettable but true fact that the vast majority of accidents in the homes involve people over 65 years of age, which makes it a very difficult problem. It is rather surprising, but it is a fact, that the majority are people over 65.

Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman confirm or deny the rumour which I frequently hear that there is the greatest possible difficulty in getting the manufacturers of such appliances as electric fires to boost the safer makes at the expense of the more old-fashioned and less safe makes? Is he satisfied, or is he not satisfied, with the co-operation from the commercial trade in this matter?

I should like notice of that question. I could not say without notice.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department his plans for building new prisons and other penal institutions; and if he will make a statement.

The new building programme comprises two prisons of maximum security, the first of which is in course of erection and should be completed before the end of 1957, while the second is scheduled to start this summer. The psychiatric institution is also scheduled to start this summer. These will be followed in 1957 and 1958 by two Borstals for boys and two for girls.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend bear in mind that many more prisons will be required if the death penalty is abolished?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that only 1s. worth of meat a week is allowed to prisoners in Strange-ways Prison, Manchester, apart from sausages and bacon; if he will increase this ration; and what is the meat allowance in other prisons.

The weekly diet of every prisoner includes fresh meat worth 1s. at wholesale rates in addition to 8 oz. sausage meat, 5 oz. bacon and 2 oz. preserved meat. The diet of prisoners has recently been reviewed and it is not proposed to increase the meat allowance.

If the morale of prisoners depends, as it does largely, on their food, would the Minister expect good morale on 1s. worth of meat a week?

The people of this country did very well on it for a long time. In addition to the figures I have given, there is 1 lb. of fish. Prisoners are weighed regularly. This diet and the effect on the prison population is watched very carefully.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will take the necessary steps to permit tickets for the Irish Sweep and other similar lotteries to be sold freely in England and Wales.

No, Sir.

Is the Home Secretary aware that that answer will give immense satisfaction to the Archbishop of Canterbury and, if she can get a word in edgeways, to the Archbishop's wife? Why is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman exercising this restrictive practice? Why does he not allow more "squalid" raffles in this country now that the Government propose to introduce one?

I am sure that if the hon. Member puts that question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer he will get a very good answer.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will make a statement on the appointment of a Director of the Science Museum.

The vacancy has been advertised by the Civil Service Commission and applications are now being considered.

Can the right hon. Gentleman confirm whether it is a fact that the vacancy is still being advertised at a salary lower than that paid for comparable positions in national museums dealing with other subjects? If that is the case, is it not a very invidious comparison?

The salary is £2,325. It is somewhat lower than the salary paid, for instance, to the Director of the British Museum, but I think that we had better see how we get on with the applications.

asked the Minister of Education what special grants are available to local education authorities for building new schools on difficult sites.

I am prepared to increase the limit of cost for individual projects on sites of unusual difficulty. Grant is payable on the additional expenditure involved at the normal rate of 60 per cent.

Is an additional grant paid on the site deductible from the total grant for the whole of the school building and site?

I think that the site is taken into consideration, and if it is decided that it is so difficult that extra money must be spent, that, of course, is added to the total building cost.

asked the Minister of Education the number of the secondary school population at the latest available date; and how they are divided among secondary grammar, secondary modern and secondary technical schools, comprehensive schools, and any combination within the tripartite system.

In January, 1955, there were about 1,915,000 pupils in the maintained and assisted secondary schools of England and Wales. As the answer to the second part of the Question contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

May we assume that the figures show that the overwhelming majority of the secondary school population is in secondary modern schools or secondary modern departments? In view of paragraph 21 of the White Paper on Secondary Education, will the right hon. Gentleman say what steps he is going to take to give secondary modern schools a status so that they can provide the basic requirements of education without which further education in technical colleges will be a failure?

The hon. Member will see that there are about 1¼ million children in secondary modern schools, against 528,000 in grammar schools and 87,000 in technical secondary schools. I agree that we need to raise the status of the secondary modern school, but that is happening all the time and the experiments that are going on are very successful.

Does the Minister realise that there is the utmost sympathy on this side of the House with the desire to improve technical and scientific education? Does he further realise that that involves a great deal of expensive equipment and that the only rational way to tackle it is to abandon this foolish division at 11-plus into secondary modern and secondary grammar schools and give children an opportunity to be educated in democratic fashion in comprehensive schools?

That does not follow at all. The new secondary modern schools have very good laboratories. The difficulty is going to be in obtaining specialist teachers.

asked the Minister of Education what percentage of each age group was in full-time education at the latest available date, giving figures at 15, 16, 17 and 18–20 years of age.

The estimated proportions of the four age-groups named receiving full-time education in the academic year 1954 in universities and in educational establishments recognised by me were 33¼ per cent., 18¼ per cent., 9½ per cent. and 5 per cent., respectively.

Do not these figures compare very unfavourably with those in the United States and in Soviet Russia, and will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has any reason to think that the figures for Britain will improve, in view of the fact that in the Soviet Union their successful scheme of technical education depends upon whole-time education rather than part-time education?

As regards the United States, of course the National Service is different and therefore the figure in the last age group in respect of England and Wales is not a good comparison. As regards Russia, the best information I have is that the percentage of children over the age of 12 in school in this country, let alone the ages in this Question, is very much higher.

Has my right hon. Friend any information he could give us as to the fees that must be paid in Russia for all the schooling?

I understand nothing is paid now—they have changed.

asked the Minister of Education when he proposes to implement the recommendation of the Advisory Council for Wales, that the Secretary of the Welsh Department of his Department should be stationed at Cardiff.

This recommendation was very carefully considered before my predecessor made the arrangements described in Circular 17, which are now in force and which I see no reason to change. It is very important that the Permanent Secretary of the Welsh Department should be readily available in London to advise me on educational policy as it concerns Wales, but he also uses the Cardiff Office for such of his work as can best be done there.

Is the Minister aware that the present position is leading to inconvenience and delay and that we are having to wait at this end for decisions to be taken at Cardiff? Does he not think that he ought to take the advice of the Welsh people on this matter?

I consider the interests of the Welsh children, and I am inclined to think that the Secretary of the Welsh Department gets more out of me if he is near me than if he is a long way off.

Has my right hon. Friend noted that since the war, and in recent years particularly, several Departments, including the Ministers of Agriculture, Health and Housing and Local Government, have concentrated more and more of their Welsh work in Cardiff? In any future reconsideration of this problem, will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility that there appears to be a greater separate problem in education than in any other sphere?

The one consideration I have in mind is what is best for the Welsh children.

asked the Minister of Education the number of community centres established in Wales during the past five years; and the total amount contributed towards these centres by his Department.

Grant amounting to £7,035 was authorised towards the provision of eight community centres in Wales in the period 1st April, 1951, to 31st March, 1956.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say offhand whether these community centres were scattered over Wales, or were they concentrated in the South?

I could not answer that question without notice.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware that curtains provided for the Frank Hooker Secondary Modern School, Canterbury, cost £1,064, of which £979 was spent on curtaining the school hall; and why he approved this expenditure, since it is not in conformity with the Government's appeal for economy in local government expenditure.

The cost of the curtains was high because two walls of the assembly hall were made of glass, but I am advised that the cost of two glass walls with curtains was less than that of two solid walls without curtains.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable public anxiety as to the degree of vigilance exercised by his Department on such expenditure? Will he take steps to ensure that the architects and designers associated with his Department so design these schools in future that these extravagant furnishings become unnecesary? Is my right hon. Friend further aware that he has aptly described this school hall? It is a veritable glasshouse, much more calculated to develop weeds than lusty young plants?

The architects in this case were very clever. They found a method of construction and furnishing that was cheap, and the cost of the equipment of the school hall is well below the average. However, I appreciate what my hon. Friend has said, and I propose shortly to announce limits on the total cost of school furnishings which will give guidance to local authorities.

Could the right hon. Gentleman say how much curtains of this kind would have cost when the present Government came into power, and is it not unreasonable to expect local authorities to keep expenses down when Government policy keeps pushing up the cost of the things they have to buy?

I cannot answer the first part of the question, but local authorities are, in fact, being very successful in keeping down the cost of furnishing schools.

asked the Minister of Education how many camp schools, established under the National Camps Corporation and leased to local education authorities, for which receivers and managers have been appointed by him, have been sold; and what are his intentions with regard to the future of the camps remaining unsold.

Local education authorities have approved in principle the purchase of fifteen of these camps, and are considering that of six more. I hope that these negotiations will be successfully completed and that purchasers will also be found for the remaining seven.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if the remaining seven of these schools, which have experienced staffs, cannot be sold, they will be allowed to fall into neglect? Can he not do something to expedite the matter?

Four of the seven are now unoccupied.

asked the Minister of Education how many schools are now being supplied with milk tablets as a substitute for liquid milk; and what steps he is taking to procure a sufficient supply of fresh milk to meet the requirements of our school population.

One hundred and twenty-nine in all. Apart from eighteen small isolated schools which no one is prepared to supply, 111 are in Blackpool and Newport where the local education authorities have been unable to obtain fresh milk at a reasonable price. I am sending the hon. Member a copy of a letter which my right hon. Friend sent to all local education authorities last December.

Is the Minister aware that liquid milk is far more nourishing than tablets, and that children prefer the natural milk which is being used for other purposes? Will he see that the fresh milk goes to our school children instead of to the purposes for which it is now used?

It is the desire of my right hon. Friend that liquid milk should be supplied, but there are cases where, for various reasons, this is not always possible.

asked the Minister of Education what action he has taken to follow up the recent suggestion of the Scientific Advisory Council that retired Service officers should receive training to fit them for science teaching in schools.

This is an interesting suggestion, but at present I can add nothing to the reply my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary gave to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. Skeffington) the day before yesterday.

When can we expect to see some science teachers drawn from this source, in view of the crippling shortage which we are experiencing at the moment?

At the moment the Resettlement Advice Bureau, which is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour, is investigating this matter, so far without finding any demand. If we find it is necessary to give some kind of training, we will do so.

asked the Minister of Education what changes are being made in the announced programme for the development of technical education, Command Paper No. 9703, February, 1956, in the light of the Government's economy programme.

The Government's plan for the development of technical education is a very special case and will not be involved in the immediate review of expenditure for 1956–57 referred to by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the Budget debate.

But is the Minister aware that when I asked for definite assurances from the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Financial Secretary to the Treasury they were not forthcoming? Will the Minister give a definite promise, therefore, that not only will there be no cuts in the technical programme but no delays in building for technical purposes?

If the hon. Gentleman will read my answer, I think he will find that it is quite clear. I said, "will not be involved in the immediate review."

asked the Minister of Education when he anticipates extending the present school-leaving age to 17 years.

I have no date in mind.

Has the attention of the Minister been drawn to the statement made by the Soviet Government that they anticipate extending the school-leaving age to 17 within the next five years? Will he examine the position to see that we are not left in a backwater on this question in the same way as we have been on technical education?

Yes, Sir, I have seen that statement. The hon. Gentleman will know that children in Russia go to school only at the age of 7, and that they then attend until the age of 12. I am informed that at the present time only in the cities is there a secondary course from 12 to 17, and even in the cities there is not by any means complete coverage.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what organised suggestion scheme is in operation in his Department; how many suggestions are received from employees through that organisation annually; how many are adopted; what awards are made for such suggestions; and what he estimates to be the savings made by the adoption of employees' suggestions.

There is no such scheme in operation in the Commonwealth Relations Office.

Will my hon. and gallant Friend look at the reports from the Canadian Suggestions Award Board and the American National Association for Suggestion Schemes to see what economies can be made by means of these schemes? Perhaps that might be a contribution from his Department to the Chancellor's scheme to save £100 million.

We always welcome suggestions, but the work of the Commonwealth Relations Office is largely of an administrative nature and not suitable for such a scheme. However, I will look into the point which has been raised by my hon. Friend.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what conditions are attached to the grant made from Colonial Development and Welfare Funds for the foundation of a university college in Salisbury.

The grant is subject to the usual conditions which are attached to the issue of Colonial Development and Welfare Funds for the development of higher education. It was also a condition that the recurrent costs should be met from other sources.

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that many people who were delighted that there should be a multi-racial university established are deeply disturbed to hear that Africans are to eat in separate dining halls and live in separate houses? Does this form of apartheid have the approval of the Government, and is it in keeping with the ideas which led them to give a grant to this university?

I do not accept the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. This is the first multi-racial university in the Federation, and I am sure that the authorities on the spot will make the best arrangements for its success. I am certain that this House will wish the university all success.

Has not the hon. and gallant Gentleman dodged the main question? I am quite certain that the authorities on the spot will make the best possible use of the physical resources at their disposal, but does the hon. and gallant Gentleman consider the separating of races in an educational institution of this sort of contribution to the multi-racial policy? That is the point raised by my right hon. Friend and which the hon. and gallant Gentleman has not answered.

Answer.

I think that I answered the right hon. Gentleman—

No.

This is a very important matter which may have the most unfortunate consequences. Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that there are certain developments in the Colonial Office of which many hon. Gentlemen on this side of the House approved? There have been developments towards multiracial policy which have been approved by hon. Members on both sides of the House. Does not the hon. and gallant Gentleman realise that when this reply is read in Africa it will have a most unfortunate effect?

Perhaps I might quote to the right hon. Gentleman from the Royal Charter granted to this college in February, 1955:

"No test of religious belief or profession or race, nationality or class shall be imposed or required of any person in order to entitle him to be admitted. …"

May I ask the hon. and gallant Member whether he realises that since the end of the war we have established universities in East and in West Africa which are fully multi-racial. Both were helped from the Colonial Development and Welfare Fund, and this one is being helped. Is it true that the conditions are as referred to in his original question by my right hon. Friend? If so, will not this be the first time that we have used funds from this country to establish a university which is not truly multi-racial?

There is no question but that this university is multi-racial. Certainly there is segregation—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—but it is at the desire of the people on the spot, and I have great confidence in them.

Would it not be wiser and more statesmanlike on the part of hon. Members on both sides of the House to leave this matter for the time being to those on the spot to see how things go on, rather than to try to inject ill-feeling from this country into that part of the world?

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that we on this side of the House take a very serious view of this matter? Will he please explain what he means by "the people on the spot"?

I mean, of course, the council of the university.

The Government will understand that we cannot leave the matter there and that we must take it up in a much more serious way?

I would answer the right hon. Gentleman in the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Farnham (Mr. Nicholson). I am sure that these things are much better settled by the people on the spot rather than by question and answer in this House.

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that this is the first time a grant has been given from the Commonwealth Development and Welfare Fund for higher education and used for purposes not fully multi-racial in the full sense of the word?

This is multi-racial in the full sense of the word.

The Conservative sense.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the hon. and gallant Gentleman's answer, I beg to give notice that I shall endeavour to raise the matter at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what representations he has made to the Government of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland about the disability pensions now being paid to ex-Askaris in Nyasaland.

None, Sir. Defence is the Federal responsibility and with effect from 1st July, 1954, the Federal Government assumed full liability for war service pensions payable to ex-Askaris in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland. I am informed that the Federal Government have decided to bring the Nyasaland battalion rates into line, from that date, with the more favourable rates paid to former members of the Northern Rhodesia Regiment.

Is the Minister aware that there are about three hundred ex-Askaris in Nyasaland who incurred their wounds when under our control and not under the control of the Federation; that the disability pension for a man with 60 per cent. disability is about 7s. a month and for 100 per cent. disability 9s. a month? Will the hon. Gentleman make representations to the Federal Government that these people be treated as human beings?

I will certainly look into the point which the hon. Member has raised, but he will appreciate that any question of what happened before federation is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies.

asked the Prime Minister if he can yet make a statement following the investigation into the disposal of Government surplus stocks.

No, Sir, but I hope to be able to make a statement in the next week or two.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he yet recognises the need for dealing effectively with this problem and probing into the murky depths of the racketeers' empire? Can he say whether or not the Committee he has set up will do that and, if not, will he consider setting up a Select Committee for this purpose?

I do not know whether it is in order at Question Time to use the adjectives used by the hon. Gentleman. As he will know, I have had this inquiry made, and I think that the report will be available to me very shortly. I am sorry that because of one or two other preoccupations I have not been able to deal with it lately. I hope, certainly before Whitsun, to make a statement.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether the Royal Warrant shortly to be published to effect increases in the pensions and retired pay of Service personnel will award increases in pensions to retired personnel of the Indian Army.

No, Sir. Any increase in the pensions of retired personnel of the former Indian Army will be dealt with by separate Prerogative Instrument.

Will it amount to the same thing or not?

Yes, Sir, it will amount to very much the same thing. We hope the increases will take effect from 1st April, 1956, and be available almost immediately after the Pensions (Increase) Bill becomes law.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what quantity of the home-grown crops of wheat and barley harvested in 1955 have been exported up to the latest available date.

Crops are not distinguished according to year of harvest in the Trade Returns and wheat is not separately distinguished in the Trade Returns. 165,000 tons of barley and 30,000 tons of other unmilled cereals were exported in the period August, 1955, to March, 1956, inclusive.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say why barley sold off the farms at about £22 per ton was exported from East Coast ports and yet farmers are having now to pay £28 a ton for barley imported into this country?