asked the Minister of Labour how many man-days were lost through industrial disputes, sickness industrial accidents and prescribed diseases, taking the last convenient year in each case.

The approximate number of man-days lost is as follows:

While I thank my right hon. Friend for those very interesting figures, which I think merit considerable further study, would he not agree that there is immense scope for an increase in productivity by eliminating some of the causes leading to sickness in industry?

Yes, Sir. I think they are very remarkable figures indeed. They show that our losses through sickness are about 75 times our losses through industrial disputes. I am told that at any given time about 1 million men are away from work through sickness. This shows in which field it may be possible to make substantial advances.

Could the right hon. Gentleman obtain a breakdown of the sickness figures to show how much is accounted for by the man's occupation as distinct from the ordinary run of sickness?

I have isolated the figures for prescribed diseases, which in part meets the hon. Member's point. I should not think that such a break-down of the sickness figures is available, but I will look into this with the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance, and, if it is available, I will let the hon. Gentleman know.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that about 275 workers have been unemployed since 24th April, 1956, owing to a dispute with Messrs. John Thompson Water Tube Boilers Limited at Tilbury Power Station; and whether he will take steps to bring this dispute to an end so that the men may resume work.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that work on the Tilbury Power Station has been held up by a lock-out of about 270 men by Messrs. John Thompson since 24th April, last; and whether he will take steps to get an early resumption of work.

I am aware of the circumstances in which about 270 men were dismissed by this firm. My regional officer has been in touch with the trade unions and employers' association concerned, and I am informed that the matter is to be discussed at an early date by representatives of the Confederation of Shipbuilding and Engineering Unions and of the Engineering and Allied Employers National Federation.

Will not the Minister agree that the alleged reason for the lock-out is rather trivial? Is it not lamentable that work of such grave national importance should be retarded so wantonly? Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware that the dispute has now been in existence for nearly two months and that the firm has made no endeavour whatever to negotiate with the trade unions involved?

Whether it is dismissal of workers, as the firm would say, or a lock-out, as the men claim, is a matter of definition on which I should not like to pronounce. I entirely agree with the hon. Member about the importance of the contract and, therefore, the importance of bringing the dispute, however it may have arisen, to an early end.

asked the Minister of Labour how many of the workers declared redundant at the Standard Motor Company, Coventry, have been found other employment and whether such employment has been found locally.

So far, nearly 300 workers are under submission for other jobs; 212 in their home areas and 79 in other areas, some of which are within daily travelling distance. Of the 1,325 redundant workers, about 977 have registered for employment, and 700 claims to benefit have been traced. I assume that the others are expecting to find or have found their own jobs.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that employment exchanges are telling workers that they cannot be placed and are advising them to look for jobs themselves? Is he aware that these men are looking for jobs themselves, at least in Rugby, Birmingham, Bristol and Gloucester? I understand that one worker was even advised about a job in New Zealand. Is it not becoming increasingly apparent that the introduction of automation will be eased only if redundancy is anticipated and the closest co-operation takes place both with the workers and the right hon. Gentleman's Department.

I entirely agree with the second part of the hon. Member's supplementary question. I have said over and over again—and I am delighted to say it once more—that from the very first time that any change, whatever it may be, is planned which may have an effect upon the size of the labour force, the trade unions should be brought into consultation. If there has to be a reduction in the size of the labour force it is of great importance that my Department be called in well before any change takes place.

Is any effort being made to analyse the type of worker who is now becoming redundant and to persuade employers of similar types, who could use these men, to go into the area?

Yes. A good deal of work is done in that respect. Vacancies are often circulated much more widely than in the immediate area and where the redundancy occurs. Many people who seek skilled and other labour have been and are making inquiries in the Midlands to see if they can offer suitable posts.

Has not the root cause of the trouble at Coventry stemmed from the fact that in the last four or five years the capital expansion of the motor industry has been quite fantastic? Ought not the Government to have foreseen this and prevented it from expanding so rapidly?

That is a remarkable piece of hindsight; it is terribly easy to say now, but I do not remember any Member of the Opposition saying it a year or more ago.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the strike at Messrs. Bedfords, hosiery manufacturers, Keighley, which has been in operation since October, 1955; and what steps he is now taking to bring the parties together.

I would refer the hon. Member to my predecessor's reply to his Question on 1st December, 1955. The only change in the situation since then is that the employer formally discharged all the workers concerned in February. My regional officer has maintained contact with the employer, who is, however, still unwilling to meet the union.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that every step is being taken by his Department to bring the parties together—or is one to assume that his Department is completely helpless in the face of reactionary employers who refuse to recognise trade unions? Is not there a danger of this sort of dispute spreading? If it did not spread, would not the result be that the strike would be settled?

I am not going to quarrel with the hon. Member's description. It is quite true that this is a very strange attitude for an employer to take towards trade unions. But, after all, if a man decides to dismiss all his employees and virtually to go out of business himself as a result, it is extremely difficult to see what one can helpfully do. My Department has been closely in touch with this matter for a long time. We have been in touch with the employer on five occasions this year, and I am quite prepared to make another approach in view of the hon. Member's supplementary question—but I do not hold out much more hope of finding a settlement than. I think, the hon. Member does.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) if he is aware that a wide range of articles in daily use, sold in packets, boxes and tubes, bear no specified weight and are subject to fluctuations which lessen the quantity and thereby conceal a price increase; and how such variations in value are computed for the cost-of-living index figure;

For the purpose of the Retail Prices Index, information is usually obtained from the manufacturers regarding the weight or volume of goods sold in containers which do not specify these details. I am not aware of any general tendency to reduce the quantities in such containers, but, as the hon. Member was informed on a previous occasion, any reduction in quantity is treated as equivalent to a rise in price for the purpose of the index.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the contents of packets can be reduced without notice—the same applies to quantities in boxes and bottles—merely by enlarging the container or thickening the bottle? The housewife buying from one day to another does not know that the contents are fluctuating. Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that this has a very serious effect on the cost of living?

As to the effect on the Retail Prices Index, to which the hon. Lady refers, we do not collect prices of starch, nails or birdseed for the purposes of the index. However, we check that the quantity and quality are the same as in previous months. Therefore, any alteration in the size of the container or the weight of its contents would not affect the validity of the index.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the whole practice was condemned by the Hodgson Committee, whose recommendations have been lying before the Government for four years, and about which they have done nothing whatever?

As the hon. Lady knows very well, that is not a matter for my Department.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware of the prevailing practice of reducing the contents of bottled wines, canned or bottled beer, and household sauces by indenting sides and glass from bottom upwards, and that spirituous liquors are sold by measures, such as nips, which have a different meaning in different parts of Britain; and how these fluctuations are accurately assessed in computing the cost of living index figure.

I am aware that many different styles and shapes of bottles are used as containers, but I have no evidence of any general tendency in recent periods to alter these in such a way as to reduce the contents. Similarly, I have no evidence of general reductions in the size of the nip. As I have just explained in answer to a previous Question, full allowance is made for any known changes in quantity when prices at different dates are compared for the purpose of the retail prices index.

Does the right hon. Gentleman want to find evidence? Is not the evidence obvious all over Britain? Will he ask his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer how he can possibly achieve a plateau of stability whilst prices around him are fluctuating to this extent?

I am not quite sure what the nip has to do with the plateau. The nip is not a standard measure; it is quite true that it varies from area to area. But as we take the same basis each month for the Retail Prices Index it is the percentage change which is measured by the index, and that is accurately shown.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how far it is the practice, under his regulations, for an escaped prisoner, after recapture, to be punished, in addition to loss of remission and bread and water diet, by loss of educational, reading and other privileges, being compelled to have a light in his cell all night, and to exercise and associate always with other escapees.

Prisoners who escape or attempt to escape are placed on the escape list, which means that they are subject to special supervision which necessarily excludes them from, or restricts their participation in, some activities. For example, they may not attend an educational class unless a discipline officer is present, and they are regarded as ineligible for certain jobs which carry an element of trust. The light in their cells is kept burning at half strength during the night. In some prisons they are excluded from association for meals and recreation, and this precludes them from reading daily newspapers in association, but their right to have library books and to receive books and periodicals from outside is not affected. These restrictions are designed to prevent escape and are not imposed by way of additional punishment.

Is the Home Secretary aware that, whatever the intention may be, the effect of these regulations is to punish these men twice—and in a very severe way? Is he further aware that a constituent of mine has served nineteen months of a three-year sentence and, for the whole of that time, he has had to have a light burning in his cell? Is that not almost akin to the water torture? Will not the Home Secretary review these provisions, whilst keeping regulations to prevent escape?

I think that the hon. Member will agree with me that if a prisoner has previously escaped some precautions must be taken to avoid the same thing happening again. That is the only purpose of these precautions. I have looked into the case which, I take it, is the basis of his Question. I can assure him that the governor of the prison reviews the position of all the prisoners on the escape list from time to time and that the prisoner to whom the hon. Gentleman is referring was removed from that list last week.

Is not the compulsion to associate with other escapees an invitation to conspiracy? Is it not impractical and psychologically unsound? Will the Home Secretary seek expert advice in order to satisfy himself that it is unsound and defeats its own end?

These practices vary from prison to prison. The right of association is one which prisoners regard very highly. In certain cases the association is supervised and in others it is not. The question is considered very carefully indeed.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend bear in mind and not forget that those who break the law should be punished?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the result of investigations into the sending of a copy of a confidential police report. Exhibit No. 36, to the hon. Member for Erith and Crayford, together with the copy of a letter alleging unlawful practices in connection with the disposal of Government surplus stocks.

As to the circulation of the confidential document, I am unable to add to my reply of 3rd May to the hon. Member. The writer of the letter has been identified and interviewed, and I am informed that no further police action is to be taken.

Will the right non. and gallant Gentleman explain why, when the author of these letters alleging corrupt practices against civil servants has been identified, proceedings are not taken in court; or is there some special reason why these matters should not be brought into the daylight?

There is some doubt whether the circulation of this document is in fact a criminal offence. Regarding the allegations, I can only say that they are entirely without foundation.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in the interests of children and the reduction of administrative overheads, he will introduce legislation to provide for the co-ordination of the work of the many statutory and voluntary societies and organisations concerned with the protection of children.

The terms of reference of the Committee, which as I stated in the reply I gave on 2nd February to the hon. Members for Widnes (Mr. MacColl) and Hayes and Harlington (Mr. Skeffington), I propose to appoint, will enable the Committee to study the problem of preventing or forestalling the suffering of children through neglect in their own homes and to make recommendations for any change in the law. In the meantime, I am arranging, in consultation with my right hon. Friends the Ministers of Health and Education for a survey of the existing arrangements for co-ordination and, as a first step, local authorities will be asked for up-to-date particulars of the arrangements operating in each area.

While many hon. Gentlemen will welcome that statement, may I ask the Home Secretary to speed up this, in view of the fact that in certain areas there may be as many as forty people who have not only the right but sometimes the duty to interfere in family life? Is it not right that we should take account of the recent findings of the B.M.A. and the magistrates that family welfare work has been hindered by the number of people and organisations concerned?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman would agree that this Government—and the Government of which he was a member took the same view—are of opinion that co-ordination is the better way to deal with this. As a result, many local authorities have had these co-ordinating committees, which have done good work. I entirely agree that co-ordination is most important, and I hope that the work of the local authorities will be co-ordinated.

When co-ordination takes place, for example, between the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children and his own Children's Department, is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman satisfied that all the information possessed by his Department is put before him?

I am not aware of any such lack of information. If the hon. Gentleman has any information, I shall be glad if he will provide me with it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action is taken, where parents or guardians have had more than one conviction for ill-treating a child, to ensure that the child suffers no further cruelty; and whether he will introduce legislation to increase from six months the maximum sentence of a magistrates' court for parents or others convicted of a second offence of cruelty against a child.

The main remedy which the law provides is the institution of proceedings before a juvenile court under Section 62 of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933; if it is satisfied that the child is in need of care or protection, the court has power to make a variety of Orders, including for example, an order committing him to the care of the local authority. These and other provisions of the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, including the penalties for cruelty prescribed by Section 1, will be within the terms of reference of the Committee the proposed appointment of which I announced on 2nd February, but, as regards the powers of magistrates' courts, I should not, as at present advised, feel justified in proposing in the case of this offence the quite exceptional step of raising above six months the term of imprisonment which they have power to impose.

In view particularly of a recent case at Derby where a parent was accused for the second time of ill-treating his child aged three, and the magistrate declared that he wished he had the power to impose a greater penalty and described the offence as a wicked offence against a defenceless child, does not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman think that in such circumstances children should be protected? Is he aware that I am not talking about a first offence but a second offence, possibly against the same child, and that it is an extremely serious position?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is under a slight misapprehension—

No, I am not.

I am well aware of the case to which he is referring. It is true that magistrates can impose a sentence of only six months, but they can, if they think fit, commit an offender for trial. In the case to which the hon. Gentleman refers, the prosecution did not suggest that that should be done. From my own experience, which extends to long before I came to the Home Office, I can say that when this question was raised and examined, it was found that the powers were sufficient but often were not utilised.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is now in a position to introduce legislation in order to prevent a repetition of the incident during the Korean war when certain individuals visited British troops captured by the enemy in order to exert Communist influence upon them and thereby give aid to the Queen's enemies.

This matter, which presents many legal and practical difficulties, has been under consideration, but I am not yet in a position to say whether legislation will be introduced.

Does my right hon. and gallant Friend recollect the indignation which this caused in the country at the time when it took place, and can he assure me that the attempt to prevent a repetition of this sort of incident has not in fact been abandoned?

I am glad to give that assurance. I must repeat that it is an extremely difficult matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to amend Section 3 (2) of the Coroners Act, 1887, by adding retired prison officers in receipt of a pension to the list of persons disqualified as jurors in inquests held on persons dying in prison.

I have no grounds for thinking that there is any need for such legislation.

Is the Home Secretary aware that the list of disqualifications does not include retired prison officers, and that there is general concern about the fact that on inquests on prisoners who die in prison the jury should not include any retired prison officer who is drawing a pension from the State? Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman look at the list and give an assurance that the disqualifications stated in the Section will apply to the people to whom I have referred?

It is generally undesirable that retired prison officers, for instance, should be members of such a jury, and I will take steps to see that they are not. There was such a case two or three years ago, and I think that the attention of coroners was drawn to it. I will draw their attention to the matter again, if necessary.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the result of his discussions with the Fire Brigades Union on the present two-man hook-ladder drill.

I am making further inquiries and, when I have completed them, I propose to invite the Central Fire Brigades Advisory Council, constituted under Section 29 of the Fire Services Act, 1947, to advise me on the general question of the use of hook-ladders in the Fire Service.

Is the Home Secretary aware that, in the opinion of the Fire Brigades Union and a growing number of chief officers, this drill is unnecessary and dangerous, and that on more than one occasion it has led to loss of life? Will he expedite a decision in this matter and end what appears to be a quite unnecessary drill at the earliest possible moment?

That is the purpose of the meeting I have called to be held in July.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many, and which, local authorities have made anti-litter byelaws under the Local Government Act, 1933.

Anti-litter bye-laws have been made under Section 249 of the Local Government Act, 1933, by the councils of 59 counties, 58 county boroughs and 223 non-county boroughs, and under Section 146 of the London Government Act, 1939, by 25 metropolitan borough councils. I will send my hon. Friend a list of the local authorities concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the number of prosecutions brought and convictions secured by local authorities for litter offences in each of the last three years.

I regret that this information is not available.

In view of the great cost of clearing up litter and the widespread feeling among local authorities and their associations that the present powers are not providing an effective sanction against the really troublesome offender, will my right hen. and gallant Friend please consider in future calling for statistics of litter prosecutions and convictions so that we may have some firm basis on which to hose criticisms and recommendations?

I should not like to make a promise on that, because I visualise that it would be a very difficult matter to collect the information, as there are well over 350 of these local authorities. I will certainly look into the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the ages of the 10 prisoners who have been certified as mental and moved from Walton Prison. Liverpool, since January, 1956, to date what term of imprisonment they were serving on what dates they were sentenced and whether during the court proceedings in each case there was any indication of mental disorder.

In the short time available, I have not been able to obtain all this information. I will write to the hon. Member as soon as my inquiries have been completed.

I thank the Home Secretary for that reply, but in view of the fact that the figures he gave last week are really startling and have caused great worry to the relatives of the prisoners concerned, is that not a further indication that a full inquiry is needed into what has been happening at Walton Prison? Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman give an assurance that, in addition to collecting the information, he will also seriously consider the question of holding a full inquiry?

I think I informed the hon. Lady that I am looking into this matter myself. On the results of that will depend what further action is needed. One difficulty I have which will take time is the information asked for in the latter part of the Question.

Whilst the Home Secretary is giving consideration to the subject matter of the Question, will he also consider the conditions under which refractory prisoners in remand homes and Borstal institutions are being certified as mentally deficient under the Mental Deficiency Acts and what protection those prisoners have under prison regulations?

That seems to be another question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will arrange for the public exhibition of the Home Office Civil Defence film showing the devastation which would be caused if a hydrogen bomb were dropped on London which was shown privately earlier this week; and whether he will offer the film to the United States and Soviet authorities for public exhibition.

This is a Civil Defence training film. It is not primarily designed for public showing, but 16 milli-metre copies will be available for hire from the Central Film Library from 20th June and the film has been brought to the notice of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

It may not be called for, but is it not desirable, if the film shows dramatically the consequences of hydrogen bomb warfare, that it should be exhibited? Should we not do everything we can to see that it is exhibited as far as possible among people of all countries which have the power to wage such war?

I am not quarrelling with the idea of the hon. Member, but at the moment this is the only distribution on which we have decided. I will look into the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps he is taking to improve the situation revealed at the recent annual conference of prison officers in regard to overcrowding, shortage of staff, and lack of suitable work for prisoners in local prisons.

I have not received any representations from the Prison Officers' Association since the conference to which my hon. Friend refers, but I will give the most careful consideration to any proposals they may make. I am only too well aware of the existence of these long-standing and intractable problems and I intend to continue to make every effort to mitigate them.

Does my right hon. and gallant Friend not agree that the problem is not so much one of conditions of pay in the prison service as one of making the job of the average prison officer more constructive and less negative in practice and, consequently, more rewarding morally? In approaching this difficult question, will he give further consideration to encouraging and stimulating that sense of pride which prison officers should feel in their work, but which it is by no means certain they all do feel?

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that it is most important for prison officers to have every pride in their work. Under present circumstances, prison officers can be regarded as social workers. We have done a great deal in this regard, certainly since the war, and we shall continue to do so in order that what my hon. Friend has in mind shall come about.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, following on the recent report of the Council of Wales on the South Wales ports, he will make a personal visit to Cardiff docks when he next visits South Wales.

I cannot promise to visit Cardiff docks on my next visit to South Wales, but I can assure the hon. Member that I shall be glad to do so as soon as possible.

May I thank the right hon. and gallant Gentleman and say that he will get a very warm welcome—[Laughter.]—not a hot one. Is he aware that, unless there is some drastic change in the situation, he is likely to find unemployed dockers and empty berths? Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman bring with him some proposals, arising from the report, about how we can get work into the South Wales ports?

I do not think that I can add anything to what my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation said to the hon. Gentleman on 6th June. I can assure him that I have the interest of this port very much at heart, and I realise that a complete change has taken place.

If my right hon. and gallant Friend should decide on such a visit, will be bear in mind that, just before the First World War, Barry was the greatest coal exporting port in the world and has suffered most from the decline in coal shipping? Will he also visit Barry?

I shall be glad to visit Barry also, but if my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) will take the trouble to read the report, they will discover that the ports of Newport, Cardiff, Barry, Port Talbot and Penarth are also concerned.

asked the Minister of Education what research is being carried out in his Department into the design and materials of construction of technical colleges.

My Department has recently issued a revised edition of Building Bulletin No. 5, which deals with colleges of further education. The development group is continuing its researches, and I hope shortly to be able to arrange for it to undertake, jointly with a local education authority, the design and construction of a technical college.

Whilst welcoming that reply, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he does not agree that now we are going in for a big programme of expansion of technical colleges, it is highly desirable that they should not be designed on the lines of municipal-classical or neo-Georgian styles but by using the excellent modern materials so well developed by the excellent architects of his Department?

I entirely agree, and I think it is a subject well worthy of consideration.

asked the Minister of Education whether, as the result of the steps taken by his Department, every child is now receiving specific and systematic instruction as to the properties of alcohol as recommended by the Royal Commission on Licensing, 1929 to 1931.

My Department's handbook of suggestions on health education, designed for teachers and parents, contains a passage on alcohol, and I have no doubt that most pupils receive advice on this matter. My right hon. Friend agrees with the Royal Commission that teachers should be left free to handle it as they think best.

Has the hon. Gentleman seen the latest Report of the Economic Research Council, published this morning, stating that there has been a disturbing increase in the number of persons under 21 convicted of drunkenness? Would it not be possible to arrange for the schools inspectorate to include in their reports to the Department some information on what is going on in schools so that Parliament can be informed of the position?

I have not actually seen the Report to which the right hon. and learned Member referred, but my right hon. Friend is about to reissue the handbook on health education, and there will be a new passage in it referring to alcohol.

Could the Minister instruct all local authorities to place this subject in the curriculum of elementary schools?

My right hon. Friend does not impose a curriculum on local authorities or on schools, but I think teachers will make use of the recommendation to the best advantage.

asked the Minister of Education whether he has approved the building of the proposed new Catholic schools for infants and juniors in the Southwick parish of Sunderland.

I cannot yet give a decision on these proposals.

Is it not a fact that many of the children affected have exceptionally long distances to travel at present? Will the right hon. Gentleman give this matter his urgent attention?

I recognise that the schools are needed, and they are in the proposals for the 1956–58 programme. I hope to come to a decision shortly.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware that Catholic children in Fordhouses, Wolverhampton, have to travel up to four miles for denominational education; and when therefore he expects to be able to grant building permission for a new Roman Catholic school at Fordhouses, Wolverhampton.

I am aware of this situation but, as things are, I can see no early prospect of being able to approve a proposal to build this school.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is now six or seven years since the Ministry first promised to try to include this school in the next year's building programme? Is it not ridiculous that we should have to wait this time and that children have to travel more than four miles to school?

I do not think so, because there is no shortage of primary school places in this area and it would be wrong to agree to build this school for denominational considerations, with which I sympathise, if it meant leaving empty other primary schools at a time when we are so short of them.

asked the Minister of Education whether in view of the provision now made by some local education authorities for the supply of milk to some schoolchildren at weekends and during the holidays he will modify that section of Circular 302 which forbids them to continue this provision.

No Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some local education authorities have made wise and inexpensive provision whereby some groups of children—sometimes all the orphan children of the local education authority area—are provided with milk at week-ends and during holidays? When milk is so plentiful, is not this decision a mean little economy?

I could not agree that it is necessarily inexpensive. It is additional to milk in schools and is used only by a small proportion of local authorities. Now that milk rationing is no longer in force it is no longer justified.

Does the hon. Gentleman remember that this wretched little economy was previously justified on the ground that these provisions were exceptionally expensive, which is not borne out by the experience of the local authority mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Itchen (Dr. King) and other authorities?

I said I could not share the view of the hon. Member for Itchen (Dr. King). To administer these schemes has generally proved expensive and rather wasteful. That is one of the reasons it has been found advisable to discontinue them.

asked the Minister of Education what considerations determine the recognition of foreign degrees by his Department for the purpose of graduate teachers' allowances.

I have to consider how the degrees compare with those awarded by universities in this country as regards the standard of entry required for the courses their length and the depth and scope of the study involved.

Is it not anomalous that there are degrees which are recognised by universities in this country for postgraduate purposes and yet the holders are being treated by the right hon. Gentleman's Ministry as undergraduates or as if they had never been near a university at all? Will he look into the matter again to see whether his practice cannot accord with that of the universities of this country?

I am bound to say that I do not think the case which the hon. Lady has quoted is the same. The requirements for recognition for postgraduate courses are not the same as the requirements for recognition for payment as a graduate teacher. I do not think the teaching profession—quite rightly—would wish to have a degree such as the pass degree in the Calcutta University recognised as a degree here.

If the University of London, as I believe it does, regards a pass degree at Calcutta as qualifying a man to be regarded as a graduate and, therefore, capable of going on to postgraduate studies, on what basis does the right hon. Gentleman say that he will not regard such a man as a graduate?

On the basis that I have to maintain the standards of the teaching profession. London University can do what it likes—I am glad to say that it is a free institution—but the two-year course in Calcutta University does not come up to the standard which we require for a graduate teacher in this country.

From where does the right hon. Gentleman get his standards if he does not pay some regard to the opinions of universities, who are probably the best authorities to judge in a matter like this?

I take the standard from the great deal of experience which we have. If we started recognising two-year courses of this kind as equivalent to the three-year course in an English university, we should have the whole of the two-year teacher training college students saying that they were graduates.

I am not asking the right hon. Gentleman to recognise any two-year course at any university but to consider the proposition that, if a notable British university regards a man as a graduate, it is curious that the Minister says he is not a graduate.

asked the Minister of Education what progress has been made in the conversion of premises formerly used as approved schools to the needs of maladjusted children.

The only approved school premises taken into use for maladjusted children are Langham Oaks, near Colchester. A special school was opened there on 28th May and will accommodate 40 senior boys.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether there will be any further examples of this in the near future?

I fear not. I have examined in great detail the cases of all the other schools at present available, and I am reluctantly satisfied that none of them will be suitable for this purpose.

asked the Minister of Education the average period of time that elapses between the notification of a child as maladjusted and its admission to an appropriate school.

I regret that this information is not available.

asked the Minister of Education what are his plans for the National Camps Corporation schools at West Mark, Petersfield, and Lordsfield, Basingstoke, now both fully equipped and staffed and due to be closed down next month; to what extent the camp staffs are to be dispersed; and what compensation the camp managers are to receive for loss of their homes and employment.

The Corporation is still looking for purchasers for these camps. As many as possible of the staff will be absorbed in other camps. The employment of the rest will end in accordance with their terms of employment. The question of ex gratia payments for camp managers is one in the first place for the Corporation but I will consider any proposals that they may make to me.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he is aware that a woman prisoner, Mmamyana Massase, of Seruli, Bechuanaland, was prior to trial handcuffed, tied to two lion traps, left without food for 28 hours, and confined during the night in a cement-floored hut without a blanket; that by the order of the Subordinate Native Authority the handcuffs were tightened during the hearing to make her tell the truth and that she was subsequently discharged; and if will take steps to prevent such treatment.

The woman in question is the wife of a bushman who was arrested for stock theft and escaped. It was suspected, on strong evidence, that she had aided his escape; she was detained for investigation and released next day. I am investigating the other allegations made in the hon. Member's Question.

While thanking the hon. and gallant Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him whether it is not the case that general charges were made by Mr. Peto Sekgoma, who had been a chief adviser in the Serowe kgotla as long ago as last November, when they were denied by the hon. and gallant Gentleman's office? I then obtained many details, names of witnesses, names of places, and so on, and I have had no reply as yet to these general charges. Will the hon. and gallant Member expedite an inquiry and a reply?

I do not think the case in this Question is referred to in the correspondence which the hon. Member has mentioned. I have in draft a long letter to him, which I hope to sign this evening.

Why not answer it now?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what commercial firm has surveyed part of the Bechuanaland Protectorate; what metals they have discovered in exploitable quantities; and what development is contemplated.

A number of commercial firms have surveyed for minerals in the Bechuanaland Protectorate, and, with permission, I will circulate a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Copper, gold, and silver have been discovered in exploitable quantities; for further information I would refer the hon. Member to the Bechuanaland Geological Survey Department's published annual report. For the answer to the last part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 7th June.

Can the hon. Member give an assurance that no leases will be given to any firms, South African or otherwise, without the consent and the knowledge of the African native authorities concerned? Secondly, will he tell the House, if he is able to do so, what decisions were made about mining development at the meeting of the African Advisory Council for Bechuanaland a fortnight ago?

I think my reply will answer both supplementary questions. The Resident Commissioner has told members of the Council about these preliminary talks and has explained that the Government would arrange a meeting between the company and representatives of the chiefs concerned. He promised that he would consult the chiefs before the meeting about the policy to be adopted in the negotiations.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what increase he recently authorised in the price of scrap iron; what percentage increase this represents, and what is the price per ton as a result of this action; and why this increase was authorised.

The average increase in the price of iron and steel scrap was £2 a ton, or 24 per cent. The average price of scrap is now £10 10s. a ton. As regards the last part of the Question, I would refer to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave on 12th June to the right hon. Member for Ipswich (Mr. Stokes).

Is the Minister aware that he has not answered the question which I put to him about the percentage? Is it not a fact that this is a 17 per cent. increase in the cost of this basic raw material? Is he aware of the advice which Lord Rochdale gave the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, that basic prices were the uncontrollable element in the cost of production? Is not this large increase quite unwarranted, and will it not reflect on the manufacturing costs of industry? Is this his Ministry's contribution to the plateau of stability?

I answered the hon. Gentleman's Question. Perhaps he failed to hear me. The answer was 24 per cent. The reason for the increase was explained quite clearly in the reply to which I referred him.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he has so far taken to encourage smaller firms in manufacturing trades to form co-operative agencies for promoting exports; and whether he will lend the services of his Department to trade associations for this purpose.

Industry is well aware of this method of export trading. The Government's export services are available at all times to trade associations and their members, but it must be for the firms concerned to decide on the best method of conducting their export business.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that quite a number of trades, particularly in the light engineering section, could expand their exports if the individual firms could spend more money on overseas advertising promotion and sales, but that they cannot afford this unless they work together? Would he encourage them by suggesting schemes of co-operative action which would achieve that result?

I do not think any suggestions from us are necessary. This is already done in one or two cases, and there are, of course, other methods—quite satisfactory methods, such as exporting through export merchants—which also work extremely well to this end. I am well aware of the importance of smaller manufacturers exporting more.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will consider making an allowance for attendance at Standing Committees when next considering the question of an increase in the salaries of Members.

Note has been taken of the hon. Member's suggestion.

I was rather surprised to get that reply. Is the Minister aware of the present unsatisfactory state of affairs in which many hon. Members are finding it difficult to meet their Parliamentary expenses out of the Parliamentary salary and, therefore, have to go out to earn money, which means that other hon. Members who, because of their normal jobs, cannot earn money in this way, are having to man the Committees and do all the Parliamentary work? Surely he regards that as pretty unfair on those hon. Members who do the work?

I can only repeat that we have taken note of the point which the hon. Member has made.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will move to appoint a Select Committee on Procedure in the Public Business in this House to report what changes in the practice or procedure of the House are necessary or desirable.

My noble Friend's proposal has been carefully considered. The last Select Committee on the Procedure of the House sat in 1945 and 1946 and many of its recommendations were put into effect towards the end of 1947. It does not seem that the time has yet arrived for another general inquiry into procedure. However, there are certain matters of procedure to which attention has been drawn recently, and which might well be examined. We propose, therefore, to ask the House to agree to the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the practice of moving Amendments on going into Committee of Supply on the Service Estimates, the numbers required for a quorum and for the Closure in Standing Committees, the Constitution of the Scottish Standing Committee, and the question of Money Resolutions. A Motion will be tabled in due course.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that full reply, may I ask if he is aware that there are wider reforms which might be considered or reconsidered? There is, for example, the question of machinery for the control of finance by Parliament on the lines of the memorandum submitted by Lord Campion before the last Select Committee, which was approved of by the Committee. Can my right hon. Friend hold out the hope that a Committee might be appointed next Session for such wider purposes?

I am proposing, as I say, to table a Motion, and we are perfectly ready to hear the views of the House on the Motion when it is tabled. As regards the topic which my noble Friend has raised, there is, of course, existing machinery of all kinds, including such bodies as the Public Accounts Committee, and I would not care to commit myself at this stage. As I say, we are ready to table this Motion and to hear the views of the House. This is a matter for the House; it is not a party matter.

Is the Prime Minister aware that, broadly speaking, we are in favour of a Select Committee being appointed and are quite agreeable to the topics which he has suggested being included for consideration? As regards the question of financial procedure, would not the right hon. Gentleman confirm that this matter was very exhaustively considered by the previous Select Committee, and that it is certainly unusual that another Select Committee of a general kind should be appointed after merely six or seven years?

The right hon. Gentleman is perfectly correct in the facts he has stated to the House. I think I should tell the House that it is also true that it is rather unusual to have a Select Committee on Procedure so relatively soon after the last one. On the other hand, it did seem to us that there were a number of topics, which I have stated, which might well and usefully be examined. That is why I have suggested the procedure that I have.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the suggestion of a review of the constitution of the Scottish Standing Committee will be received with very great interest by hon. Members in all parts of the House and, indeed, by public opinion without? Is he aware that, even this morning, it was a matter of great comment that, while we have been able to spend some 23 days on each of two Bills, we were able to spend only half a morning on the subject 'of agriculture, which is of the very greatest interest to a great many hon. Members?

I was not there, but I am informed that the half-morning would have been regarded by English spectators as a very full morning.

As one of Mr. Speaker's historic duties is to defend the rights of private Members, as a result of which we have established one of our most constitutional rights, will the Prime Minister, before the Motion is finally drawn up, consider consulting Mr. Speaker in order to learn of Mr. Speaker's difficulties?

Well, Mr. Speaker, I had hoped, perhaps not wrongly, that the object of this Select Committee would be to ease the working of Parliament and, therefore, not to add unduly, Sir, to your burdens.

Can the Prime Minister inform the House when we may expect action on the Report of the Joint Committee on Private Bill Procedure which sat last year?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would be good enough to give me notice of that question.

Will my right hon. Friend consider adding to the terms of reference the present need for having a seconder to an Amendment on Report, which wastes a great deal of time?

That is a matter which can well be raised when the Motion is on the Table.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the trouble with the Scottish Grand Committee is that it is packed with English Members who have offended the Conservative Chief Whip who are sent there as a form of punishment and only come to vote at the end of the morning without having heard the discussion? Could he not arrange for their liquidation?

I do not think that we have viewed the matter quite in that way. I think the hope was that they lent a little helpful support to the decisions of the Committee.

asked the Prime Minister (1) if he will have an investigation made into the effects of auto- mation on the same basis as the hearings on automation and technological change before the sub-committee on Economic Stabilisation of the United States Congress Joint Committee on the Economic Report, details of which have been sent to him by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent;

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's suggestions, and we can always learn from the experience of foreign countries. Rather than set up a formal investigation, however, we are anxious to lose no time in putting to use what we already know about automation. Those of my right hon. Friends who are concerned will be discussing automation with their various advisory bodies. In particular, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service will shortly be meeting the National Joint Advisory Council. Also, information is being sought from the Engineering Advisory Council and other advisory bodies connected with the engineering industry about the probable adoption of new production techniques and the availability of the necessary special equipment.

Will the Prime Minister draw to the attention of those of his right hon. Friends who are to deal with this the evidence given by Walter Reuther? Will he also bear in mind that Clause 12 of the national agreement between engineering employers and the trade unions provides that systematic short time can be worked in preference to discharging men? As our fellow countrymen have made such a great contribution in full employment during the last 15 years, should not they all have the opportunity of sharing in employment when it is available?

We have indeed studied the Report referred to in the Question, which, as the hon. Member will know, is referred to in specific terms in the Report of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research which is before the House.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in replying to Mr. Bulganin's most recent letter, he will make it clear that Her Majesty's Government supports the reduction of the armed forces of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United States of America, France and the United Kingdom now stationed in Germany to an agreed level of equality.

asked the Prime Minister if he has considered the letter recently sent to him by Mr. Bulganin regarding a new approach to disarmament by the Soviet Government; and what action he proposes to take.

Mr. Bulganin's letter of 6th June to me is under consideration. The matters which it raises concern not only this country but also our Allies. I shall not be able to make any further statement until the reply is delivered.

Is it not a fact that the four Governments referred to in the Question are keeping over 32 divisions stationed in Germany? In view of the existence of what the Prime Minister yesterday called the "ultimate deterrent," does he not consider the time has now arrived when there should be substantial reductions in the number of divisions and in the amount of manpower at present tied up as a result of these dispositions in Germany?

I think that the right hon. and learned Gentleman's figure is far in excess of the facts, because I think it is true that at the moment Soviet forces in East Germany are in excess of the Western forces in West Germany. As I think we have all shown, we all recognise that there are new strategic elements in the situation where the deterrent power is so great. We are alive to that, and are discussing those problems with our Allies, but we want to treat this in such a manner as not in any way to jeopardise the alliances that exist and that we have to keep in mind.

In any discussion on this subject with our Allies or with the Soviet Union, would the Prime Minister bear in mind the desirability of bringing into the picture the reunification of Germany on the basis of free elections? Would he also bear in mind the desirability of considering what effective controls could be established over the armed forces which remain in Germany?

I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman would agree that I am not likely to be unmindful of the problem of the reunification of Germany.

Would the Prime Minister especially note that the letter from Mr. Bulganin states that the Soviet Government regards their withdrawal of 30,000 troops from Germany as only a first step? Does not the Prime Minister think that if the Government would consider making a very substantial reduction in their armed forces in Germany it would make sure that this was a first step and create a better atmosphere, in which general disarmament could be discussed?

I do not want to enter into a debate at this time, but it is very arguable as to who makes the first step in these matters. There have been, and there are, very considerable reductions which this country has made in its Armed Forces in general; and they are greatly in excess of the figure here mentioned. What I was saying was that the new situation is one which we shall examine with a desire to secure further progress, if we can.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the figure of 32 divisions, to which I referred, is based on a reply given to me yesterday by the Minister of Defence, when he stated that there were 22 Russian divisions, 5 American divisions and 4 United Kingdom divisions—and he was unable to say how many French divisions—stationed in Germany at the present time?

I did not know the right hon. Gentleman was giving the total figure of Russian and Western forces. That is, of course, an interesting way of looking at the problem.