asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department for what reason and by what authority David Sa Darku, a prisoner in Winson Green Prison, committed for trial for an attack on a warder was transferred to Broad-moor Institution shortly after completing an application for legal aid.

Darku was certified insane on 4th May three days before he made application for legal aid. He was removed to Broad-moor in pursuance of a warrant under Section 2 of the Criminal Lunatics Act, 1884, which I signed on 7th May.

I do not know the facts and I do not make any allegations about this case at all, but is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that this man was entirely friendless in this country, had no relatives to consult, and had no advice, although committed for trial in February, and will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman keep an eye on the case?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we do not yet know whether this man is fit to plead, but we shall get another report on 29th June, and the clerk of assize will be fully informed in time to enable an application for aid to be made.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many persons were, at the most recent convenient date, confined in prisons in England and Wales for non-compliance with orders of the court directing payment of debts, rates, affiliation or maintenance orders.

On the night of Monday, 11th June, 1956, 39 men were in prison for non-payment of debts, five men and one woman for non-payment of rates, 69 men for failure to comply with affiliation orders, and 582 men and four women for failure to comply with maintenance orders including orders for the maintenance of children under the Children and Young Persons Act, 1933, and the Guardianship of Infants Acts, the totals being 695 men and five women.

I will study those figures. Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that, here again, the Scottish system is apparently better than ours? Will he have a look at the whole question, because it is quite clear that we do imprison for debt, and it is by no means always clear that there is the most careful investigation of the man's circumstances at the time when the order is made?

The Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders has been asked to look at this very question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will give instructions that persons serving sentences or on remand shall be permitted to write letters to their Members of Parliament addressed to the House of Commons without such letters being submitted for inspection.

The conditions under which prisoners may write to Members of Parliament were announced to the House by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede), when he was Home Secretary. They were accepted by the House, and experience has not hitherto suggested the need for any significant change.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that this privilege existed in the time of Lord Sidmouth, and that very often prisoners wish to write to their Members about purely family circumstances or difficulties that have risen outside the prison, on which they are not anxious to take anyone else into their confidence?

I do not know that up to date there is any reason for any material change in the conditions laid down at the time by the right hon. Gentleman, but I am always prepared to look at anything that may be of use.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman take notice that I have no responsibility for Lord Sidmouth?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has completed his inquiries into allegations of ill-treatment of prisoners in Liverpool Prison; and if he will make a statement.

I have had inquiry made into the allegation but I have not yet been able to complete my study of the Report.

Is my right hon. and gallant Friend aware that the prison officers will welcome any inquiry, public or otherwise, which will show these allegations to be completely unfounded?

Is the Home Secretary also aware that the prisoners who have been knocked about will be very anxious to have an inquiry, which will prove that they are not telling untruths?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proposals he has for amending the law of murder as it relates to the survivors of suicide pacts.

As I said in the House on 16th February, the Government have accepted the recommendation of the Royal Commission on Capital Punishment that the survivor of a suicide pact who had not himself killed the other party to the pact should be guilty of the crime of aiding, abetting or instigating the suicide of the other, and not of murder, and should be liable to life imprisonment. I cannot, however, hold out any prospect of the introduction of the necessary legislation in the near future.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware of the circumstances of the recent case in the City of Norwich in which a girl of 17, the survivor of such a pact, was, after a frightful ordeal, tried for the murder of her sweetheart? Is it not time to put an end to the public scandal of such trials? Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman treat the matter as one of urgency?

The hon. Member may remember that during one of the debates on the abolition of capital punishment I suggested that there were three, if not four, major amendments which should be made, but that, if they were to be made at all, they had better be made all together. In any case, I think the House would agree that it would be rather inappropriate if we did anything now before knowing whether the Death Penalty (Abolition) Bill is to be accepted or rejected.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will publish in HANSARD details of the schemes whereby students from other countries are allowed to remain here for study purposes at our universities and educational establishments; what restrictions are placed on these students so far as the period of stay and the taking up part-time employment are concerned; and to what extent they have to give some guarantee of financial support.

My Department does not administer any schemes in this connection. Students from abroad are given generous facilities to pursue whole-time study at reputable educational establishments in this country, provided that they possess or have been guaranteed adequate funds to cover their period of stay and make satisfactory progress with their studies. They are normally expected to return to their own country when their studies have been completed and are usually given successive extensions of stay throughout the duration of their prescribed courses; but they are not allowed to engage in any kind of employment, except during vacations.

While I thank the Home Secretary for that reply, may I ask him whether he can give an assurance that these students are not compelled to return to their country at the request of their Governments where there is a possibility of political persecution, but are entitled to remain here and continue their studies?

Most certainly, Sir. In no circumstances would we do anything of that kind.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will review the special arrangements applying to prisoners who are former escapees or have attempted to escape, with the object of eliminating regulations which may result in further attempts at escape; and, in particular, if he will give instructions that escapees shall not be compelled to have a light in their cells all night, and that their cases shall be regularly reviewed at intervals of not more than six months with the object of removing their names from the escape list when their conduct is satisfactory.

I am satisfied that the present arrangements are necessary in order to prevent escapes, and I do not accept the suggestion that they are so onerous as to lead prisoners subject to them to try to escape. A dimmed light in the cell through the night is a necessary part of these arrangements. Governors already have discretion to remove from the list any prisoner who in their view is no longer likely to try to escape. This consideration, and not satisfactory conduct in general, must continue to decide whether a man should remain on the list. The lists are reviewed periodically.

Is the Home Secretary aware that as the clothes of these men were removed from the cell overnight there is no justification for keeping a light on all the time? Surely it is not unreasonable to ask that the cases should be reviewed every six months? Is he further aware that I referred to him the case of a man who had earned full remission during nineteen months of the sentence which he had served, and that his name was removed from the list only after I had tabled a Question on the subject?

I can assure the hon. Member that his Question had nothing whatever to do with that: it is entirely in the governor's discretion. The cases are reviewed from time to time. I do not think that the light can be a very great hardship. It is one of about 25 watts, and in addition it is coloured red or amber, as the case may be.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what evidence he possesses to prove that Archimandrite Kallinikos Macheriotis was collecting funds for the killing of British soldiers; what evidence he has that money collected at All Saints Church, Camden Town, has left this country; and the nature of the anti-British propaganda carried on at this church.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what evidence he has that funds collected in this country for relief of distress among the families of detainees in Cyprus are not being used for the purpose stated.

I have placed in the Library translations of appeals sent out by Mr. Macheriotis and other signatories, on the authority of Archbishop Makarios, among the community attending this church, for funds in connection with "the national struggle in Cyprus". Hon. Members will be able to form their own conclusions as to the significance of this phrase in present circumstances. I have no power to compel the production of accounts relating to the funds so collected, and in any event the question whether or not they have left this country is not the point at issue. As regards the anti-British activities that were carried on from this church, I can only assure the House that I was satisfied that they fully deserved this description and were such as, in my opinion, to justify the action which has been taken against Mr. Macheriotis.

Is not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman being a little disingenuous in his reply? Is he aware that among the documents which he has placed in the Library is a copy of a letter asking for contributions to collections for the victims of the national struggle? That is quoting a Home Office translation of the letter. In these circumstances, is it not quite disgraceful that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman should have tried last week to smear this priest with the crime of collecting money to kill British soldiers?

If the hon. Gentleman will have another look at the document he will find that, in addition to the funds for the relatives and so on, on both occasions there is reference to the "national struggle" which is taking place in Cyprus. I have no doubt at all that all hon. Members in this House know what the results of that "national struggle" are so far as we are concerned.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman answer Question No. 16, which he said he was doing? It asks what evidence he has that the funds were not being used for the relief of distress. Is he aware that the assistance afforded to the children of the detainees in Cyprus is most meagre, and that there is very real hardship among the families of hundreds of persons who are detained without trial or without authority, whom he is smearing unfairly in describing as terrorists?

I am sorry, but I cannot accept that I am smearing unfairly as terrorists people who are daily killing British policemen and troops. I just cannot accept that. I need go no further than to quote from the document itself, which is an appeal for funds for "the national struggle"—

For the victims of it.

—for "the national struggle". I must appeal to the hon. Gentleman to read the document more carefully. Two appeals have been made. In the second one no mention whatever is made of the families. It is purely a fund for the "national struggle". Might I add something else? What is most astonishing of all is that a special committee will call round to collect the money. Why a whole committee should be going round to collect money when the subscriptions are voluntary I do not know.

The Tory Party does it.

Since the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has not claimed that he has given any evidence of so-called anti-British propaganda but has asked us to accept his assurance about it, can we have his assurance that he is distinguishing very clearly between propaganda which is anti-British and propaganda which is merely critical of Her Majesty's Government, as most of us on this side of the House are?

I should certainly be the last to complain of anybody being critical of either the present Government or the one that preceded it, because that is what we do in this House. Nobody in his senses would ever dream of complaining about that. What I really complain about is that a priest who is a foreigner, and, as such, the guest of this country, uses a church lent to him by the Church of England and utilises from that place, and over his name, a method of getting money to carry on a struggle which is having the effect of killing our people day after day.

Leaving aside the merits of the case—[HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] Perhaps hon. Members had better wait and hear. Leaving aside the merits of the case as to whether this man was guilty of an offence or not, is it not desirable that, if a person is accused of an offence against British law, he should be placed on trial? Why does the right hon. and gallant Gentleman show such reluctance to deal with the matter in that fashion?

Because, in the first place, I was acting as had been done before, and as was well in accordance with the law of this country, that an alien who comes here is, as I said last week, welcome so long as he behaves himself, but the law allows us to return him to his own country—a terrible punishment—if he misbehaves himself.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of the comments and observations made by the Opposition about the Government's policy in regard to this matter are very nearly tantamount to being anti-British themselves?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations he has received from Archbishop Athenagoras following the deportation of Archimandrite Kallinikos Macheriotis; and what reply he has sent.

I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a copy of the letter which I received from Archbishop Athenagoras, together with a copy of my reply to it.

Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman say why he did not make any complaint to the Archbishop before he took this action? Is it not a fact that in taking the action he not only committed a breach of ecclesiastical custom but also a direct breach of the Anglo-Greek Consular Convention, 1953, which requires that a consular official should have been informed immediately?

That is a matter which I am not prepared to discuss at the moment; that is under investigation. As regards informing the Archbishop beforehand, I think I made it perfectly clear last week that the very purpose of the exercise would have been completely spoiled if anybody had been informed beforehand.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many persons have been deported from the United Kingdom in the last 30 years, excluding the war years, on the grounds of their political activities; and what his policy is in this regard.

I regret that the information asked for in the first part of the Question is not available. Every case is dealt with on its merits after full consideration of all the circumstances.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether separate lavatory accommodation has yet been provided for the female clerical staff at Dartmoor Prison.

Yes, Sir.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that up to a day or two ago my information was that a lavatory had not been provided for the lady who was working in the pay office? Will he make an inquiry to verify that?

I am afraid I have not got all the details of these matters, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that one was completed on Monday. I am not sure about the other one.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the estimated cost of adapting the hospital block at Dartmoor Prison to provide accommodation for the clerical staff; and when the alterations are likely to be completed.

One thousand pounds; the alterations are likely to be completed by the end of 1957.

Will not the right hon. and gallant Gentleman reconsider this situation? The office accommodation is terrible. Is he aware that six years ago it was given top priority in his office, and that it cannot properly be cleaned? Why cannot £1,000 be spent on it so that the accommodation can be made available quickly?

This work depends upon the availability of labour and other things. [An HON. MEMBER: "There is plenty of labour there".] They do a lot of work. This £1,000 is only part of a bigger scheme which will take five years to complete.

As Dartmoor happens to be in my constituency and not in west Cornwall, may I ask if it is not true that, had it not been for the war and the fact that until recently the future of Dartmoor was uncertain, these and many other improvements would have been carried out long ago?

That is so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the bad state of the present accommodation and his inability to provide permanent alternative accommodation before the next financial year, whether he will provide immediately alternative temporary accommodation for the clerical staff of Dartmoor Prison, either inside or outside the prison.

Inquiries are already being made about temporary accommodation. I will communicate their results to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

May I ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to bear in mind that, adjoining the outer courtyard. is an unoccupied flat owned by the Prison Commissioners? Will he take that into account?

Yes.

In view of the right hon. Gentleman's Answer to my Question on conditions for the staff on 17th May, when he agreed that there was dampness—that was the Answer—may I ask whether anything has been done about that? Is he aware that the last visit by a Home Secretary was in 1950. and will he himself have a look at the conditions?

Certainly, I will do my best to look round prisons when I can. If it had not been for the war and other things, of course a lot of this work would have been done. There is a tremendous lot to be done, and, as I say, it will take five years to complete. I will certainly look to ascertain how it is getting on.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what will be the cost of building the new fire station it is proposed to construct at Bellingham, Northumberland.

The contract price for this station is £21,619.

Since there is already a fire station in existence at this place, and bearing in mind also the need for Government economy and the fact that various villages in the area which are not getting a proper water supply are not likely to get one because of the need for cutting down local government expenditure, will the Home Secretary consult his right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government to see whether this project ought not to be delayed?

I can only say that this fire station has been considered essential for many years, and this was done in consultation with the local authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what complaints he has received about the sale of gramophone records of an indecent character; and what action he is taking.

None, Sir.

Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman taken the trouble to listen to the two records of which I have sent him details? Is he aware that no paper in the country would dare to print the words used on one of them, and is it in the public interest that these wretched things should continue to be publicly sold?

The hon. and gallant Gentleman was good enough to send me details, but unfortunately he forgot to send the records. I am sure he will be very surprised to hear that I have not got a gramophone in my office at the Home Office. I have never heard the records. One was called "John and Marsha", and another one was called "Don't touch me nylon". I have not had a chance to hear either of them. In any case, it is not my responsibility to prosecute; it is a matter for the police.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what medical treatment is being given to W. J. Bernasconi, a legless prisoner at Wandsworth, now suffering from an incurable disease.

An outside hospital familiar with Bernasconi's case and at which he has recently attended as an out-patient has been asked for advice on his treatment. I understand that the advice given is to the effect that no operative treatment is at present contemplated and that the case is one for palliation only. Bernasconi is under medical observation in the prison hospital and is receiving palliative treatment in the form of liniment as required. He is given an extra hot drink twice a day and is allowed a hot water bottle at night.

While thanking the Home Secretary for taking action to ensure that some treatment was given tothis man after I wrote to him—not before—may I ask him to bear in mind that this man is suffering considerable pain, that he is afraid he will fall out of his wheel-chair at any moment and not be able to get himself back into it? Would it not, in all the circumstances, perhaps be better to allow this man to die at home?

I do not know that I take quite so gloomy a view as does the hon. and gallant Gentleman of the immediate future of this man, because he has been—as the hon. and gallant Gentleman probably knows—in attendance at St. Bartholomew's Hospital both before and since he came to prison and those at the hospital asked to see him again in a year's time. He is getting very good treatment in hospital, and he has not deteriorated physically in any way since he went to Wandsworth.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if his attention has been called to the Report issued by the Economic Research Council, a copy of which is in his possession, which shows a 32 per cent. increase in convictions for drunkenness among young people under 21 years of age; and what action he proposes to take to deal with this disquieting increase.

The figures in this Report do not cover the whole country. For England and Wales as a whole the percentage increase was 26. The provisional figure for convictions for drunkenness of young persons between 14 and 21 was 4,417. This is out of a total of 3,863,000 such persons. Whilst the number is small I entirely agree that any increase in drunkenness among young persons is disquieting.

I have been looking carefully into this question, but as I indicated in reply to a Question by the right hon. and learned Member for Rowley Regis and Tipton (Mr. A. Henderson) on 8th December last, there is no clearly apparent cause of the increase. The problem is not one to which any simple and clear-cut solution can be found, and not every social mischief can be cured by legislation. I shall however continue to keep a close watch on the situation, and if it appears that any special steps are called for or would be helpful, I shall not hesitate to take them.

Is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that that sympathetic reply will cause a great deal of satisfaction amongst those interested in this matter? Although, as the right hon. and gallant Gentleman has said, the figures are not complete, I believe that they cover enough areas to show that drunkenness among young girls is very much on the increase.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that on 21st February, 1956, an injunction against the use of No. 12, Chesterfield Terrace, W., as a house for immoral purposes was upheld in the Court of Appeal; and what action has since been taken against Eugene Messina and his brother as proprietors.

The facts on which this injunction was granted did not disclose grounds for police proceedings. Two women were concerned in these civil proceedings and there was nothing to connect them with the Messina brothers. So far as the police are aware, the premises are not now being used for immoral purposes.

"Now" may be simply today. Does the Home Secretary not consider that the action taken by these two private citizens was in the best public interest and most public-spirited? Secondly, if the right hon. and gallant Gentleman says that the house is not now being used for immoral purposes, can he say whether it does or does not still belong to the Messina brothers? I can give him evidence that it does.

I cannot say one way or the other about that; it may well be so. I agree with what the right hon. Gentleman said about the people who took the action, but he will appreciate that it was a civil action and that the police were not concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that No. 39 Curzon Street was sold on 10th February, 1954, to Madame Johans and subsequently resold as a brothel for £10,000 to Eugene de Bono, alias Messina, on 10th October, 1954, whilst a refugee from justice in this country; that when the house was raided by the police last year £14,000 in cash was found in the safe; and what action has been taken or is proposed against Madame Johans and Eugene de Bono.

In August, 1955, Mrs. Johans was convicted and fined for keeping a brothel at these premises. I am informed that the police are not aware of any ground on which Messina could have been proceeded against in this case.

Is the Home Secretary aware that Madame Johans is also the proprietor of the flats in which the Messina brothers have until recently been living in Brussels? Is he aware that responsible police officers have stated that these girls pay to the Messina brothers, through, I agree, subterranean routes, £5,000 a year each, and that I have a list of twenty-two of the names in my possession? That gives some idea of the extent to which this has been going on.

The right hon. Gentleman would, I know, agree that those whose names he has been mentioning would probably be likely to do all that he has said. Two of them left this country four years ago, and I think they are at present in custody in Brussels. That is the position at the moment.

Is the Minister aware that his Department, or New Scotland Yard, sent two inspectors over to Tournai this week to attend the trial of the Messina brothers? Is he aware that the information which I have put before the House today and that appears on the Order Paper has come to me through the Belgian police and presumably, therefore, was known to New Scotland Yard also?

I should hate to have to tell the right hon. Gentleman the amount of information in New Scotland Yard about these people. The fact of the matter is, of course—

What is the right hon. and gallant Gentleman doing about it?

It is no use asking "What is the Minister doing about it?" The police cannot do anything unless there is something about which action must be taken. The fact is that no police action could have been taken in this case. Mrs. Johans was, if I remember rightly, fined for keeping a brothel but there was no action which the police could take against those two men.

Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's attention been directed to allegations which have appeared recently in some of our national daily newspapers, including criticisms of himself for not having taken drastic action in connection with alleged vice in the West End of London? Will he give his attention to this matter, and indicate to hon. Members very shortly what he proposes to do about the whole situation?

The criticism against myself in the papers does not worry me very much—one gets used to it—but when it comes to criticism of the police, a lot of it is grossly unfair. While the right hon. Gentleman asks what is being done, he knows perfectly well that on the question of homosexuality and prostitution a Committee has been sitting for some time. We are awaiting its Report to see what is the position.

Is the Home Secretary satisfied that he has sufficient powers to get rid of this evil? If not, will he come to the House and ask for powers?

What hon. Members must realise—I must say this in defence of the police—is that in this direction the police have a very difficult task indeed, and the way that attacks are made about them is grossly unfair. There are even allegations of corruption right and left. I think there are sufficient powers as the law is at present, but we are awaiting the result of this very careful and extensive investigation which is being made before taking further action concerning the law.

Nobody on this side of the House, or, for that matter, on either side of the House, makes any criticism of the police; we are not concerned with that aspect. Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman at least expedite the deliberations of the Committee in order to give some assurance to the House and to the public that this matter is being given proper attention?

Obviously, this matter is one which has caused tremendous interest. I do not know whether the Committee has yet completed taking evidence. It was due to close down on taking evidence in August and was then to take second appearances of witnesses who have appeared before. I will certainly look into the matter and ascertain the position.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that No. 12 Chesterfield Terrace, No. 7 Stafford Street, Mayfair, No. 39 Curzon Street, and No. 36 Shepherd Market, have all been purchased by, or on behalf of, the Messina brothers, since they fled from justice in this country four years ago, to be used as brothels; and what action he has taken or proposes to take.

The police can take action only if there is evidence of a breach of the law. The lessor of No. 39 Curzon Street was successfully prosecuted in August last for keeping a brothel.

Is the Home Secretary aware that all these four premises were purchased by the Messina brothers after they left this country? Is he aware of the amounts which, as I indicated earlier. are passing back to them by illicit means, and is he also aware that they have agencies of a similar kind in Hamburg, Paris and Vienna, the addresses of which I shall be very glad to give to the right hon. and gallant Gentleman if they are of use to him in pursuing the course of justice?

Here again, the police can only take action when there is evidence of a breach of the law. There was no evidence of a breach of the law on this occasion. Suspicion is one thing and certainty another. We cannot act only on suspicion. In this case there was no evidence of a breach of the law, so far as the police were concerned.

Surely, the right hon. and gallant Gentleman would agree that the evidence here is practically conclusive. Is he aware that I put down this group of Questions not only to draw attention to the Messina brothers but to the fact that the whole of the West End is permeated by gangs of this kind, who are exploiting prostitution for their own ends and not for the purpose for which it is intended?

I shall avail myself of the right hon. Gentleman's offer in order to get all the information I can.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans he has for amending the Heating Appliances Act, 1952.

None at present.

Does the Home Secretary appreciate that to a large extent the testing provisions of this Act are a dead letter? Has he considered representations from the Association of Municipal Corporations and other bodies?

The Act contains provision by which it is illegal to sell certain fires without guards, and so on. The whole matter is a rather difficult one. There is quite a difficulty, for example, in connection with open fires. If the hon. Member has any ideas on the matter, I shall be glad if he will let me have them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many prosecutions have been brought since 1952, under the Children and Young Persons Act, against parents whose children were seriously injured or killed as a result of unguarded fires.

This offence can be committed by any person having charge of a child, and the statistics do not distinguish cases of prosecution of parents only. The number of persons aged 16 or over having charge of a child who were prosecuted for this offence in the four years 1952 to 1955 was 70.

Does the Home Secretary think that he could usefully take any action to make this legislation more widely known? Is he aware that a distressing number of children are still burned by unguarded fires? It would contribute towards an improvement if the existence of this legislation could be made more widely known, so that there would be more public awareness of it.

I will certainly look into that point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is yet in a position to announce the composition and terms of reference of the Departmental Committee that is to inquire into the law relating to children and young persons.

I am glad to be able to announce that the right hon. Viscount Ingleby has agreed to be Chairman of the Committee. I am not yet in a position to announce the names of the other members, but I shall do so as soon as I can. As the Committee's terms of reference are rather long, I propose to circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will my right hon. and gallant Friend give an assurance that the Committee will take evidence and advice on the widest possible scale, particularly from the admirable people who do the practical work of leadership in youth organisations of every description?

I have no doubt, from my knowledge of the chairman, knowledge which we all have, that that will be done, and if my hon. Friend will look at the terms of reference he will see they are very wide.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will remit the fines of £1to £6 each imposed on 14th June on 15 Brighton seafront traders for offering fancy goods, etc., for sale on Sunday, 6th May, in view of the fact that such sales will become legal when the promised legislation to implement the Gowers Report is passed.

No, Sir. It would be quite wrong for me to anticipate any Amendment of the law by administrative action.

Can my right hon. and Gallant Friend give us any idea when this administrative action is to take place, because at the present time we are suffering from very bad weather, and it seems very unfair that on a Sunday, when Cup-Tie people were in Brighton—and a lovely day it was—Brighton traders should not have been allowed to remain open?

From what I have said, my hon. Friend will realise that this is a legislative, not an administrative, matter. I have already said that legislation on this matter will be introduced as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) if he will hold discussions with Chambers of Commerce with a view to legislation to discourage the sale of dangerous sheath and flicker knives;

(2) if he will hold discussions with the appropriate trade associations with a view to legislation to discourage the manufacture of dangerous sheath and flicker knives.

All forms of knife or sharp instrument are potentially dangerous. I do not consider that it would be practicable to single out dangerous sheath and flicker knives for the purposes of penal legislation, even if they could be satisfactorily defined.

Will the Home Secretary appreciate that the references to legislation were introduced only to keep the Questions in order? Does he recollect telling the House how he used powers he had not got, and about which he could not, therefore, be questioned, to induce manufacturers of fireworks to restrict the more noisome and objectionable types that are manufactured, and will he pursue this technique of discussion to see if he can bring to an end this silly fashion among adolescents which occasionally has such tragic results?

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman, and if I can do anything in that way I shall be very happy to do so. There is a difficulty here, because there are so many absolutely essential things like carving knives, scissors and chisels, which can be lethal weapons but are not so described. However, I will certainly do what I can.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that the Road Traffic Bill, now before Parliament, will create many new legal obligations and regulations; and what proposals he has for increasing the size of police forces in order to be able to enforce them.

Although the Bill, if it becomes law, will create a small number of offences and thus add to the enforcement duties of the police, many of its provisions are designed to ease the task of the police in controlling road traffic. I have no reason to think that, on balance, an additional burden will be thrown on the police necessitating an increase in establishments.

Would not my right hon. and gallant Friend agree that there is already a shortage of police and there are not enough of them to deal with the number of motorists who park cars all day in the streets of London? Is it not another argument for looking again at the suggestion to form a special corps of traffic police to deal with traffic offences only?

I know only too well of the shortage of police. At the same time, I cannot hold out any hope that it will be possible to do what my hon. Friend suggests, because there is very often a close contact between controlling traffic and crime.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the number of embassies in London where policemen are stationed; and the number of hours per day of such surveillance.

Police officers are at present stationed for twenty-four hours a day at four embassies.

Does not my right hon. and gallant Friend think that this is a waste of money in present circumstances? Would not police on call or on car patrol be of value in such cases? Is it not the case that there is very little trouble now at these embassies, and that such use of the police is not justified?

It is a matter for the Commissioner of Police, and I shall have to leave it to him.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is satisfied that effective steps are being taken by the Metropolitan Police to prevent the operation of race gangs in the London area; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what further action he is taking to end gang warfare in London.

I am in close touch with the Commissioner of Police and am satisfied that the police are giving close and urgent attention to the prevention of crimes of violence.

Does the Home Secretary appreciate that, although he may be satisfied, there is mounting public disquiet on this score? Is he aware that yesterday there was a further case of razor-slashing in the West End, that in three recent cases at the Old Bailey there has been blatant perjury, that after one of the cases had been dealt with Mr. Justice Donovan had to be provided with a police escort, and that gangs of twelve or more men have paraded up and down outside the Central Criminal Court whilst cases were being heard? Is there any truth in allegations in the Press today that the police are being discouraged from visiting clubs in the West End in the ordinary course of their duties, and how long must the public wait before the activities of these squalid, cowardly, small-time hoodlums like Comer, Dimes and Hill are effectively curbed?

In practically every one of the cases that the hon. Member has mentioned it was action by the police which got those concerned where they are today. In one case—the Jack Spot case—the assailants were apprehended within hours. I think they got sentences of three and five years, respectively. [HON. MEMBERS: "Seven years."] There were two sentences of seven years yesterday. That was entirely due to the action taken by the police.

The House will realise that, although these men are known to the police, it is not possible just to round them up as one would take stray dogs to Battersea. [HoN. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Well, I have seen responsible papers saying that it is my duty to put them out of harm's way. Am I to put people out of harm's way without charge or trial? [HoN. MEMBERS: "What about the Cypriot priest?"] That is a different thing altogether. What I did about the Cypriot was legal. If I had put him into prison without trial, it would have been illegal. I would not propose to do such a thing. There is no alternative but to use the police as they are used now in preventing people from committing crimes, and so far as we can see from the results in the last few days, they are doing extremely well.

Is the Home Secretary aware that if this ugly situation gets worse—and it is getting worse—the really serious consequence of it will be that the public will lose confidence in the police force? [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] That will be very much more serious. Is it not a fact that if really drastic instructions were given from the top the whole of this filthy business would be cleared up in a few weeks?

It is all very well to talk about giving drastic instructions from the top. It depends what they are intended to do. If they were intended to put these people out of the way, then it would not be possible to carry them out. This House would not allow one to do it. It is ridiculous to say that the public are losing confidence in the police. If these men were not apprehended the public would lose confidence.

Is the Home Secretary satisfied with the method of control and responsibility in the Metropolitan Police? Is he aware that it is the opinion in many quarters that control and decision are too highly centralised? In local areas where the police authorities have to deal with this matter, they have dealt with it, because lower down the scale people in the force have the authority to act in their own areas without having to wait too long to get official authority from the top. Will the Home Secretary look at the position of control and administration of the police in the Metropolitan area?

I will look at anything, but if there were any evidence that these people who commit these acts of violence were not being apprehended there would be some cause for disquiet. It is very difficult when there are these cases, as there are from time to time. We get cycles of these outbreaks. As the House will appreciate, it is an extremely difficult thing, because most of these men are known to the police, but it is very difficult to prevent crimes simply because one knows that a man is a criminal.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will take steps, by legislation or otherwise, to implement the award of the Police Arbitration Tribunal of 31st May, 1956.

No, Sir. As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, the Secretary of State for Scotland and I have no power, as the law stands, to give effect to this award. We sympathise, however, with representations made about the difficulties which arise from the present state of the law, and we are considering whether anything can be done to resolve them.

Can the right hon. and gallant Gentleman give any indication when he will be able to give me an answer about the result of these investigations which he is making, if I put another Question down?

I hope to do so before very long.

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman's decision relate also to the arbitration award which has been won by the police as well as to the future position that may arise?

I could not give a promise in regard to retrospection. What I am referring to at the moment is the future position. I know that there has been trouble about that in the past. It is difficult to find out how one could do it. At the moment neither my right hon. Friend nor I am allowed to do it.

Where the right hon. and gallant Gentleman agrees, as a member of the official side, to refer a case to arbitration and the decision goes against him, will he bear in mind, in reaching his conclusion, that if he is not prepared to give effect to a decision against him, he will undermine the confidence of the police in the effectiveness of the arbitration machinery?

I am not sure that I can go all the way with the hon. Gentleman on that because the staff side was well aware of the restrictions of the machinery of this character before negotiations started. It does not show any weakness in the negotiating machinery. It may show weakness in how certain things work out. The negotiating machinery in all its aspects was well known to the staff side before the negotiations started.

asked the Minister of Education why he has requested the Newcastle-under-Lyme School of Art to discontinue advanced courses; and if, in view of the high standard of work done and the inconvenience and expense involved in students travelling further afield to attend such courses, he will withdraw this request.

There are very few full-time students at this school, which is only three miles from that at Stoke. To continue advanced courses at Newcastle would in my view be extravagant and against the best interests of the students.

Is it not a fact that recently one of Her Majesty's inspectors visited this school and commended very highly the work done? Does his Answer not show that there is very little economy to be achieved here, while there is the possibility of discouraging a number of art students at this school, where a very high standard of artistic ability is required? Would the Minister, therefore, review this decision, and, in the light of the tradition of the school and of local feeling, reconsider the request which he has made?

I quite see that some people will be disappointed, but only 19 full-time students take all the courses, and I feel that it is really in the interests of the students, particularly the art students. that we should collect them together where they can have the best possible teachers. It is not really in their interests to spread the students over too many courses.

asked the Minister of Education what local inquiries were made by his Department before he refused to recommend loan sanction in respect of the cost of providing a community centre in Silverdale, Newcastle-under-Lyme.

None. I made local inquiries before I offered a grant. The decision not to recommend loan sanction was based on general Government policy.

Is the Minister aware that, according to my information, only a matter of £1,500 is required to complete this work, that part of the work has already been started, and the project is now held up because of the refusal of loan sanction? Would the right hon. Gentleman, therefore, ask his officers to make some inquiries? It is a great wastage of building if, for the sake of a very small capital sum, this project is to be deferred.

I did not know that the work had started, and I will make inquiries.

asked the Minister of Education how many projects, involving capital expenditure, put forward by local education authorities during the year ending April, 1956, have been refused consent, or a starting date denied; and the total amount of capital involved in these decisions.

Seven hundred and three of the 829 primary and secondary school projects in the 1955–56 programme have now received my final approval. Some of the 204 projects cleared in the last three months have been slightly delayed as a result of the starting date procedure, which I announced in March. The remaining 126 projects roughly to a value of £11 million will be dealt with under the procedure announced in the circular issued a few days ago.

Does not the Minister realise that what he has just said justifies the criticism that was passed on his building programme at yesterday's meeting of the Association of Education Committees, when one delegate described his building plans as having the curious charm of a bogus company prospectus? In view of the strong feeling in education circles, and the real nonsense of cutting down education facilities, will not the right hon. Gentleman look at the matter again, speed up the starting dates and increase the amount of capital expenditure?

I am going to Southport tonight to tell the delegates tomorrow morning what I think of them, for a change. As a matter of fact, the postponement of the schools about which the hon. Member is inquiring is so slight that it will have practically no effect at all upon completions.

asked the Minister of Education the estimated saving in the expenditure of furniture and equipment arising from the limitations imposed on local education authorities in Circular 304.

I cannot estimate the saving because I do not know how much local authorities would have spent in the absence of the circular.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his efforts to secure economy by reducing standards below what is reasonable are causing considerable alarm and disquiet to local education authorities? Will not the right hon. Gentleman replace this latest circular?

No, Sir. A great many education authorities, I would think probably the majority, are well below these cost limits, and the circular is merely put out to warn those who happen to be going rather too far in spending money on equipment.

asked the Minister of Education if he will arrange for Her Majesty's inspectors to include in their reports some reference to the schools' instruction of children on the properties of alcohol.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend prefers to refer to this topic in his Department's handbook on health education and leave the teachers their freedom to make use of this guidance as they think fit.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that for at least fifty years Governments have assumed that our school children would be instructed on the dangerous effects of alcohol? While not wishing to dictate either teaching methods or details of the curriculum, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to take the gravest view of the urgency and importance of this question, particularly having regard to the answer given today to Question No. 21?

I would not dispute what the hon. Member has said, but to interfere with the essential freedom of Her Majesty's inspectors would be unwise. This is a serious matter, however, and I am sure that it will come to the attention of those concerned.

Will the hon. Gentleman study the answer to Question No. 21, and consult both voluntary youth organisations and local education authorities to see whether this work can be extended? Will he give an assurance that this work is not being curtailed, in view of the figures given today by the Home Secretary?

I will study Question No 21; and I am in consultation with local education authorities at the moment.

asked the Minister of Education whether he is aware of the shortage of teachers in Birmingham which threatens a breakdown in the city's educational service; in these circumstances why he rejected the advice of the National Advisory Committee upon the training and supply of teachers to the effect that quotas should be fixed for each local authority area; and what steps he intends taking to meet the deficiency of 800 teachers in Birmingham.

asked the Minister of Education at what rate teachers are at present leaving the employment of the Birmingham Education Authority; and if he will take immediate steps to confer with the local education authority with a view to checking the present drain upon the teaching staff in Birmingham schools.

asked the Minister of Education whether he is aware that, owing to the high cost of living and lack of suitable living accommodation in the city of Birmingham, the education authority of that city is unable to recruit the teachers whom it needs; and this is causing a serious situation in schools; and what action he proposes to take to help in this matter.

The staffing position in Birmingham has been serious for some time and the local education authority fears that it will grow worse. I have twice discussed with the authority the measures which it might take to attract teachers and to keep them longer. I have also asked authorities who find it easy to recruit to exercise restraint in making appointments. I decided against a quota system because in my view it was more likely to result in a loss of teachers then to divert any to the hard pressed areas. In reply to the hon. Member for Lady-wood (Mr. V. Yates), I cannot say at what rate teachers leave Birmingham, but this is the central difficulty, they do not stay as long as in other cities.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his reply is completely unsatisfactory, and that the local education authority fears a very serious breakdown in the service? Is he aware that there are a hundred fewer teachers now than there were a few months ago and that the position is worsening? As the right hon. Gentleman has tried to appeal to other local authorities not to take more than their fair share, and they are understandably taking no notice of that, what action does he propose to take to carry out his responsibilities in the matter of education?

If I thought that a negative direction of labour would help the authority, we should consider it very carefully, but we have no means of guaranteeing that if a teacher were not allowed to teach in one of the more fortunate areas he would go to Birmingham. I am sure that the local authority can do a good deal more to help itself than it has done so far.

Would not the last remark indicate the need for the Minister, in this emergency, to meet the local authority immediately? If the right hon. Gentleman says that he cannot say at what rate these teachers are leaving, is it correct to say that by the autumn term we may be 800, 900 or 1.000 teachers short? Is not this a grave situation for a city like Birmingham, and does it not call for immediate action by the Minister?

I have met the authority twice recently, and spent two afternoons with it. I think that the authority realises that there are certain things which it might do. Perhaps the hon. Member would care to come and discuss them with me. I should be very grateful if hon. Members from Birmingham would help in this situation.

On a point of order. I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Minister of Education how many full-time teachers were recruited to the staffs of institutions of further education during the year ending March, 1955, and of those what percentage were teachers trained in the three technical teacher training colleges.

Nearly 1,000 full-time teachers were recruited to the staffs of institutions of further education during the year ending March, 1955. I cannot say how many of these were trained in the technical teacher training colleges, but about 165 teachers from these colleges have taken their first posts in further education establishments in each of the last few years.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on his recent discussions with leaders of industry on the country's present economic difficulties.

asked the Prime Minister if, in his future conversations with leaders of the nationalised industries, the trade unions, and private industries, he will seek their voluntary agreement to an experimental period of six months during which, as far as possible, there shall be no increases in prices, salaries, wages, dividends, or other incomes, so that the advantages and benefits may be assessed by the community at large.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend to the reply I gave on Tuesday this week.

Is the Prime Minister aware that I heard that reply and also read it in the OFFICIAL REPORT, and that I would say that it is not entirely satisfactory? Is the Prime Minister aware that the National Coal Board and the Electricity Authority have given instructions to freeze prices, and that some reputable private businesses are doing likewise? If the Prime Minister is putting a freeze on wages and on increased salaries for M.Ps., can he go one step further and give instructions to all Ministers that they should take no action to increase the cost of living such as it has been suggested they intend to do by the coming cut in subsidies, increasing rents and abolishing rent restriction?

The hon. Gentleman asks about the discussions which we have been having, and so does my hon. Friend the Member for Barry (Mr. Gower). I warmly welcome the action taken by the National Coal Board and the Central Electricity Authority. It is extremely helpful, and will assist in the further talks which we are going to have. I should like to take this opportunity of thanking all sides who took part in these discussions for the help which they have given us so far, which encourages us to go on in what is, after all, the national interest.

While welcoming the contribution made by the coal and electricity nationalised industries to price stabilisation, may I ask whether it is the Prime Minister's intention to invite all the leaders of private industry to do likewise, and stabilise their prices?

Certain steps have been taken—[Hors. MEMBERS: "Ah."] I think it would be better if we did not treat this entirely as a party matter. Certain steps have been taken by private industry and, as the right hon. Gentleman will be aware, at our last meeting private industry pointed out, not unfairly, that their costs were to some extent affected by the raw materials which they get from nationalised industries. Now that we have made progress on the nationalised front, if I may so describe it, that will assist us in getting further progress on other fronts. The great thing is that we should all move towards the stabilisation which we want to see.

Whilst recognising that steps of this kind, taken by my right hon. Friend in the conditions of a free society, are bound to be difficult and slow, and whilst congratulating him on the benefits which have already been obtained, does my right hon. Friend consider that the limited proposals outlined in my Question might not appeal to many of the parties in industries which might not wish to surrender all freedom of movement and manoeuvre?

I was not dealing with limited proposals but was answering the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Leeds, South (Mr. Gaitskell). I think, and I believe the whole House thinks, that in a free society we have to try to get by agreement the results which we all want to see. Therefore, I welcome recent developments very warmly, I am grateful to those who have made them possible, and we shall do our best to make further progress.

Can we take it from the reply of the Prime Minister to my earlier question that it is his desire that private industry, as well as nationalised industries, should stabilise prices, and in view of this attempt at voluntary price control, would the Prime Minister tell us in respect of which commodities rationing will now be introduced?

No, Sir. If the right hon. Gentleman cannot perceive the difference between voluntary and compulsory rationing, I shall have to leave him to enlighten himself.

On a point of order. In view of the fact that the Prime Minister has not answered my question about the increase in rents which his Government have already announced, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.