asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a further statement on the use being made of the Government grain silos.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given on 16th July to my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Mr. Pott).

I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, which I have studied. Can he say in which of these premises drying facilities will be available?

There are drying facilities in all of them. One of them is a drying depot only, and the other silos have drying facilities.

Will these facilities continue to be available?

The understanding with the tenants was that the silos would be available for grain storage and drying.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food why he included in an official letter addressed to Sir James Turner, the President of the National Farmers' Union, on the subject of future Price Reviews, specific permission to the recipient to disclose its contents to whomsoever he thought fit.

Special Reviews are of concern to farmers throughout the country, and I felt that the N.F.U. should be free to pass on the contents of this letter to all those whom it thought might be concerned.

Is the Minister aware that this morning the Executive Committee of the Union of Agricultural Workers passed a resolution in the following terms:

"… we are forced to interpret it"—

that is, the letter—

"as an unwarranted intervention on the part of the Minister in the affairs of the Wages Board"?

Is he further aware that, in writing the letter, he has incensed both farmers and farm workers? Is he aware that the Executive Committee of the National Farmers' Union in Norwich last Saturday passed a resolution protesting against this letter? Did not one farmer at that meeting refer to his letter as sheer blackmail and a virtual repudiation of the Agriculture Act of 1947?

I really would recommend the hon. Member to consult his right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Mr. T. Williams), who sent the most specific warnings to the Agricultural Wages Board on one occasion, after an application for a wage increase was received, as to the consequences of any possible action by the board on the chances of recoupment at the next Annual Price Review.

Will the Minister say whether the document he has referred to—of which I am not aware, but which must exist—related to a general February Price Review or a Special Review?

I referred to the consequences upon recoupment at the next Annual Price Review. It said, I think, that the matter of a Special Price Review was a matter for separate consideration.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he proposes to take in connection with the marketing of pigs and bacon as a result of the Report of the Reorganisation Commission on Pigs and Bacon.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Rye (Mr. Godman Irvine) on 12th July.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the present state of affairs in the pork and bacon market is so uncertain that it would surely be better, in the interests of producers, consumers and taxpayers, to implement something like the recommendations of the Commission in the not too distant future?

I note with interest the hon. Member's view. I think he will agree that the whole question is a most important one, and that I should be right to take some reasonable time for its consideration and discussion with the interests concerned before making up my mind.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what progress has now been made in the setting up of progeny testing stations for pigs in the country.

Good progress is being made with building the first station at Selby (Yorkshire), which I hope will be ready to start testing early next year. Tenders for the other three stations in England and Wales have been accepted.

Are the finances for these stations being found by a levy or direct from the Treasury?

The capital cost of these stations is to be met by the Government, in the first instance, and recovered from the industry over the years through the mechanism of the Annual Price Review.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what his policy is towards the importation of turkeys in the forthcoming autumn and winter.

Our policy remains to allow importation freely, apart from restrictions imposed for balance of payments reasons or considerations of animal health.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will arrange for his officials to consult the Pembrokeshire National Farmers' Union on the prevailing prices for home-killed meat and the current tendencies in the utilisation of livestock.

My officials keep in touch with N.F.U. Headquarters about prevailing prices and trends for home-killed meat. So far as the position in Pembrokeshire is concerned, I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. Gentleman on 19th July.

Is there any reason why the right hon. Gentleman's officials cannot consult the National Farmers' Union in the district?

No, none at all, as to general consultation. In fact, I believe that a meeting has been held between my officials and the Pembrokeshire National Farmers' Union today—either it has been or will be held.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement on the Government's future policy on egg marketing.

I cannot add to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone (Sir A. Bossom) on 20th July.

Is it the right hon. Gentleman's intention to make a statement on this matter before the Recess?

I am not sure whether I shall be in a position to make a statement or not, but I will see that there is no avoidable delay in making up my mind or in notifying the promoters of the scheme of any modifications that I may require before feeling able to put this proposal to Parliament.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will give an assurance that he will have regard to the views of marketing boards when formulating import policy on the commodities with which they are concerned.

I shall always regard marketing boards as a principal source of information on production, prices, and prospects of the commodities with which they are concerned; and I shall always be ready to consider any views or advice they, or other responsible organisations, may wish to offer. But decisions on import policy, which must necessarily be taken in the light of the widest considerations, can only be a matter for the Government.

While appreciating what my right hon. Friend has said, may I ask him if, in view of the fact that at the moment boards have to rely very largely on Customs and Excise information regarding imports, and the fact that that information is not available to them until it is almost too late to be of the slightest relevance, he will allow and, indeed, encourage them to set up their own information staff at the ports of origin, which I think would be legitimate under the Act?

I think that market intelligence is a proper activity for marketing boards. I will be glad to help them in any way I can.

Is the Minister aware that it is not merely a case of market intelligence, but a much narrower point of information with regard to imports, and that it is vitally necessary for these boards, particularly marketing boards, to have that information at the proper time, and not too late? Will he look into that point, because at the present time it is important that the Potato Marketing Board should have current and up-to-date information?

I will look into that point, because I realise its importance. It is important that boards should have all the information that is available as to imports and prospective imports.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to what extent he estimates that the dearth of rabbits owing to myxomatosis has affected the population of other beasts and birds and, in particular, foxes, rats, weasels and buzzards.

I have insufficient evidence at present on which to arrive at any reliable estimate. There is evidence that foxes and other predators of rabbits have turned to rats and other small ground vermin. Buzzards suffered a substantial reduction in the breeding rate last year, but they are now said to be recovering in some areas.

Will my right hon. Friend make every effort to keep himself abreast of all existing developments in order that we may be able to appreciate whether the lack of rabbits is a blessing or a curse?

Yes, I most certainly will take my hon. and gallant Friend's advice on that point. I think the present evidence is enough to show that, in general, these changes are a blessing. Quite apart from rabbits, the reduction in rats, whatever the cause for it, is really most encouraging, and will redound very much to the advantage of home food production.

asked the Minister of Labour how many members of the Canteen Advisory Service he proposes to retain.

One only as a canteen adviser, but my right hon. Friend is considering whether any of the other advisers can be employed in another capacity.

Is it not a fact that, on the day on which the Parliamentary Secretary informed us that he was not aware of the numbers who would be left, in fact advice was sent out to the unions concerned that only one would be retained? Does he agree that, at the 39th Session of the International Labour Office at Geneva, this country undertook certain responsibilities in these terms:

"The competent authority or some other appropriate body should make suitable arrangements to give information, advice and guidance to individual undertakings with respect to technical questions involved in the setting up and operation of canteens."

How does the hon. Gentleman propose to carry out that recommendation if he has no people to do it?

It is not correct to say that we have no people to do it. We have this one adviser, and we believe that in modern conditions that is all that is necessary. With regard to the first point in the hon. Gentleman's Question, I said in reply to the question which was raised by the hon. Gentleman that it would be one, two, or three, and perhaps only one, but that I could not say definitely. That was my personal position at the time.

asked the Minister of Labour to how many officers of the Canteen Advisory Service he has issued notices of dismissal; and on what date these notices were issued.

None has yet had final notice. On 16th July, when the announcement about the future of the service was made in the House, an explanatory letter was sent to every member of the service concerned. On 24th July, preliminary warning was given to the four temporary advisers that in a month's time they must expect to receive formal notice that their appointments will end on 30th September.

In that case, will not the Parliamentary Secretary and his right hon. Friend reconsider this position? Is it not a fact that many industrial firms as well as overseas Governments have been using the services of these advisers and have found their work both necessary and desirable? As only a small number is involved, is it worth while dispensing with them in view of the essential kind of work which they are doing?

I am afraid that I cannot undertake to reconsider this matter. In these things we must get our priorities right. We are not saying that this service has not done good work, but we are saying that in modern conditions it cannot be regarded as essential in relation to the other calls of more essential things which we have to do.

asked the Minister of Labour to what extent factory inspectors are trained in the provision and maintenance of catering facilities.

There are three industries in which there is a statutory obligation to maintain a canteen, and factory inspectors are fully competent to see that the requirements are being observed. The Canteen Advisory Service is being discontinued because it is no longer considered necessary to give detailed advice to managements on the running of canteens.

Is it not a fact that the Factory Inspectorate is already overstrained and that winding up the Canteen Advisory Service means the imposition of additional duties on factory inspectors with the inspection of canteens and advice on the provision of canteens? How is the already overstrained Factory Inspectorate to cope with these duties? Is it not a fact that it will not be able to cope and that these duties will be neglected?

Perhaps the hon. Member is not aware that we are expanding the Inspectorate.

Is it not a fact that in 1955 more than 2,000 applications were made for technical advice on the opening and running of canteens? In those conditions, how can it be said that there is no real need for the services of the Canteen Advisory Service?

In our opinion, such advice is readily available and can be provided without public expense.

asked the Minister of Labour what regulations are now in force regarding the provision of canteen facilities for industrial workers; and which industries are affected.

Regulations requiring the provision of canteen facilities are contained in Codes of Regulations relating to three industries—building, jute and clay works.

Statutory duties about canteen facilities are imposed in three industries at any rate. Does not that make it clear that additional duties are now being imposed on a not yet expanded Factory Inspectorate because of the liquidation of the Canteen Advisory Service? Would it not be better at any rate to wait until the Factory Inspectorate has been expanded before dispensing with the services of the Canteen Advisory Service?

The service is, of course, an advisory service, and it is my impression that the statutory regulations must be and are studied by factory inspectors.

asked the Minister of Labour how many factories have received certificates indicating that their fire escape arrangements are satisfactory.

Thirty-three thousand, one hundred and sixteen.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say what percentage that is of the factories which come within the provisions of the Factories Acts?

About 45 per cent.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the forthcoming closure of Thorne Colliery, near Doncaster; and what action he proposes to take to ensure the local reemployment of the 2,400 miners involved.

I understand that most of the men concerned will be offered a transfer to other pits within daily travelling distance. For any who seek other employment, the facilities of the employment exchange service are available, and I understand that there are substantial demands for labour within that distance.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that that is and has been going on during the last few days without any intervention or help on his part, and that it covers only able-bodied miners who can work at other pits? Is he aware of the fact that there is a large number of partially disabled older men, for whom his Department must assume responsibility, and will he take special measures to see that they get alternative employment?

We will do everything we can, as the hon. Gentleman knows. This is one of the main man-power deficiency areas, as far as the Coal Board is concerned. In regard to the great number of the workers concerned, it is possible to offer alternative employment. I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, that there will be difficulties during what, we hope, will be a temporary closure of the pit, and my Department will do everything it can to help.

asked the Minister of Labour if, in view of his intention to review the safety regulations of the building industry, he will invite the representatives of the National Federation of Building Trades Operatives to consult with him on the matter.

There is no present intention to undertake any general revision of these regulations, which were made in 1948, but revision of certain points is under consideration. My officers have already had discussions with the National Federation of Building Trades Operatives, and there will be further consultations if necessary.

asked the Minister of Labour if, during the next five-year period, he will take steps to allow Remploy to carry forward to another year any sums allowed for maintenance which are underspent in any one year; and if, in connection with the annual accounts of Remploy, he will consider allowing a notional sum as a credit in respect to each Remploy trainee who is able to transfer to open industry.

Maintenance, as distinct from capital expenditure, is included in the grants for running expenses which are allowed for Remploy in my Ministry's Annual Vote; in accordance with normal procedure any balance unspent cannot be carried forward to the next year. With regard to the second part of; the Question, I doubt if such a scheme is practicable or would secure the results; desired.

While appreciating the difficulties arising from the second part of the Question, will the hon. Gentleman ask his right hon. Friend if he will consider publishing each year with the accounts the number of Remploy trainees who have left for industry and the average cost of training trainees?

I will certainly consider that. I thought that information was available, but if it is not, I will certainly see whether it can be made available.

asked the Minister of Labour the annual amount which will be saved through the closing of the three appointments offices in London, Manchester, and Glasgow.

I estimate that the annual saving will be approximately £203,000, of which about £27,000 is provided as allied services by other Government Departments mostly on premises.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this saving—which is nearly half the savings announced by his Department—and the other economies which are being made come at a time when the Government's policy is causing more re-deployment to be necessary, and that therefore further difficulties are being created in finding suitable appointments for men who become unemployed? Will he not reconsider the matter, having regard to the fact that this economy may be extremely unwise?

While I would certainly not wish to depreciate the value of the services which these appointment offices have rendered, it must be recognised that they are a most expensive form of placing. For example, last year only about 3,500 people were placed. I can assure the hon. Member that we are taking steps to continue this service by expanding the functions of some of our larger exchanges. The figure for savings which I gave was a net figure which made allowance for that expansion of certain other exchanges.

asked the Minister of Labour why it is proving difficult to find alternative employment for the 5,600 men dismissed in the Birmingham area by British Motor Corporation, seeing that he estimates that 12,000 vacancies exist; and to what extent the list of vacancies has been reduced by employers now that labour is actually available.

Yesterday there were 10,000 vacancies for men in Birmingham and within reasonable daily travelling distance. I told the hon. Member on 19th July that there were then in this area 1,662 men registered as unemployed who had been recently discharged by the British Motor Corporation, and no later figure is available. I am unable to agree that it is proving difficult in general to find alternative work for these men.

While I agree that it is too early yet to draw any definite conclusions, is it not a fact that a large percentage of the men who are actually being found work are not, as the Chancellor wished, going into exports or anything like that, but are going into the distributive trades and the G.P.O. and becoming bus drivers and so on, which are not essential at all?

As soon as we can, I will give the House a break-down by industries of the other occupations in which men find jobs. If the hon. Member would like it, I can straight away send him all the information which we have already, but it by no means bears out all the implications of his supplementary question.

Is it not true that only half of the men dismissed by the company registered with exchanges, and does not that indicate that men have gone back to the jobs which they held before entering the motor industry?

It is difficult to draw firm conclusions, largely because of the incidence of holidays. One does not know whether many of these people may not come back from their holidays and register at the exchanges at a later date, but the true figure one can give at present is the one in my Answer, that 1,662 out of the total are registered as unemployed.

Will the Minister now make special efforts to discover how many of the vacancies on the books are genuine vacancies? He and I know from experience that very many of them do not really exist, and in these conditions it would be a good thing to find which are genuine.

It is not possible to be exact about whether each one of 10,000 vacancies is or is not genuine. What I can say is that, in general, as it has got more difficult to obtain labour in certain areas and in other areas the pressure upon labour resources has eased, so in sympathy with that the figures of vacancies have become a great deal more realistic in the last week or two than they were a few months ago.

asked the Minister of Labour what discussions have taken place at the National Joint Advisory Council regarding representations by trade unions to employers' organisations, with a view to providing supplementary unemployment assistance or other forms of compensation in the event of workpeople being dismissed.

None, Sir. The discussion of particular conditions of service is a matter for the joint negotiating machinery of individual industries rather than for the Council.

As this matter has assumed general importance affecting a large number of workpeople, many of whom are in dispute about it, would it not be desirable for the right hon. Gentleman himself to take the initiative and bring the matter before the National Joint Advisory Council and ascertain its views, or consult one side or the other? Can he take the opportunity during the next fortnight, when most of the men are on annual holiday, to inquire into this possibility of finding some solution for what is becoming a very vexed problem?

Of course, it is a vexed problem. As a matter of fact, at the meeting of the N.J.A.C. yesterday I discussed with the members of the Council some of the general problems arising out of automation and the general situation about the displacement of labour. The Council includes representatives of the T.U.C., and I am certain that it regards the question of compensation for dismissal as one for settlement within the industries and, therefore, for joint negotiating machinery. The fact that this has become a matter of national importance highlights the need for having these discussions through the machinery there is rather than through an advisory body, although it is wholly proper that some of the wider aspects of this matter should be discussed at the N.J.A.C.—I agree with the right hon. Gentleman on that—as was done yesterday.

This matter is of general interest and concerns all hon. Members and the general public. Would not the right hon. Gentleman ascertain whether it is possible within his powers to facilitate discussions of this kind? Will he take note of the fact that in the United States, a country supposed not to be as advanced in social matters as we are, schemes of this kind have already been adopted?

Yes, indeed, but the experience of the United States rather proves my point than that of the right hon. Gentleman, because these agreements, which I think my predecessor brought to the attention of the employers and the trade unions, were negotiated by the unions with the motor corporations concerned.

asked the Minister of Labour how many men, women and youths were registered as unemployed at the Shotts Employment Exchange on 31st March, 1956, and on the latest available date.

The unemployment count is taken only on a Monday about the middle of each month. At 12th March, there were 83 men, 101 women, seven boys and two girls registered as unemployed at Shotts Employment Exchange and Youth Employment Office. The corresponding figures for 11th June, the latest available date, were 85, 220, five, and 39, respectively.

Since the number of women unemployed has increased considerably, and the Minister in answer to a previous Question said that there was little likelihood of their obtaining employment in this one area, may I ask what steps he is taking, in conjunction with the Secretary of State for Scotland and the President of the Board of Trade, to find work for these girls?

As the hon. Lady says, this is a problem that largely concerns the employment—or the unemployment, unfortunately, at the present time—of women and girls, and it is largely due to the closing of the factory, about which the hon. Lady has asked many Questions and, perhaps, will raise others in today's debate. She knows that the President of the Board of Trade has been trying to find a tenant for this factory. Those efforts, so far as I know, have not been successful. I know that they are going on.

asked the Minister of Labour why, in view of the inevitable repercussions of the absence of notice, he proffered no advice to the British Motor Corporation about consultation on dismissals during the two days when he had advance notice that the dismissals were to be summarily announced.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to him of 12th July.

The Minister then only said that he was not asked for advice, and I asked him why he had not offered it. If it was not conventional for him to offer advice, would it not have been better to break a few rules in order to avoid the present tragedy? Do the Government really mean what they say when they express horror at the action of Sir Leonard Lord? Does the Minister really believe that he was powerless and impotent on those two days to do something to prevent it all happening?

I do not think that at all. I said in my answer that this information was given to me privately, for my information. There was no question of my advice being sought.

In order to avoid further trouble arising out of this matter, would the right hon. Gentleman, when information is conveyed to his Department with the possibility of similar dismissals, advise the firms concerned immediately to consult the trade unions?

I doubt whether I have made a speech since I became Minister of Labour in which I have not stressed at all stages the necessity for consultation. I am very happy to do it again. If a suitable opportunity arises, I will, if necessary, bring that to the notice of the particular firm. In this case, the notice given was so short that it would have been quite ineffective.

Has the right hon. Gentleman read the Conservative Industrial Charter which proposes legislation to see that, in the case of dismissals, there should be long notice and adequate compensation?

The Conservative Industrial Charter is one of the most enlightened documents on industrial relations that has been produced since the war, and it is indeed a great encouragement to us all to find that a great many people on both sides of the House who are interested in industrial problems are turning to the solutions which it propounds.

Does the Minister think that the 6,000 men who have lost their jobs will be satisfied with that answer?

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to a statement in "Careers Guide", April, 1956, an official publication of his Department, that the only training accepted as leading to a suitable qualification for inclusion in the British Register of Medical Auxiliaries is that approved by the Society of Chiropodists; whether he is also aware that the Institute of Chiropodists, formerly the Joint Council, and the Society of Chiropodists are mentioned as appropriate bodies in the National Health Service Medical Auxiliaries Regulation, 1954, and that the qualifications awarded by both bodies are generally regarded as of equal value; and what action he proposes to take to correct this mis-statement.

The statement in the Guide is strictly correct. The complicated position in this profession might, however, have been more fully explained, and I will consider how best this information can be conveyed to the schools interested.

Yes, but the right hon. Gentleman, as Minister of Health, decided, after careful study, that these two bodies were of equal esteem. How comes it that, as Minister of Labour, he takes a different view?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend does not take a different view. As I have said, the information in this booklet is strictly correct, but I will see what I can do to have it amplified and made more clear.

Perhaps the Minister knows that the booklet says that only the Society of Chiropodists is a fit body, whereas, as was made clear in the statement of the Ministry of Health, both those bodies are regarded as of equal esteem. How can that possibly be?

This is one of the few cases where both of us can be right, or anyhow largely right. The British Register of Medical Auxiliaries is maintained by the British Medical Association, which recognises only the Society.

asked the Minister of Labour when he expects the Report to be available of the Committee which has been inquiring into the operation of the Dock Labour Scheme; and what action he contemplates taking upon the committee's findings.

This Report is being published today and copies are available in the Vote Office. As regards action on the Report, my first step must be to invite the organisations concerned in the Port Transport Industry, including the National Dock Labour Board, to consider the Report, and this I am doing immediately.

Having regard to the very considerable task which my right hon. Friend's predecessor set this Committee, may I congratulate the Committee in getting out its Report in under a year? It was a year ago tomorrow that it was appointed. May I ask my right hon. Friend whether the Report recommends any substantial reform in the Dock Labour Scheme, and if not, would he agree that he would be expressing public opinion if he told the parties—employers, unions and the Dock Board itself—to get on with the job of making that scheme work in partnership and not always using it as a scapegoat for its own ills?

The Report is in the Vote Office now. For the information of the House, I can say that no major change in the scheme is recommended. A number of minor changes are proposed. Clearly, I must have the views of all interested parties on this matter before I move.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that reports in the past have indicted employers for many of the delays that have taken place in the docks. What is the right hon. Gentleman doing to ensure that the employers as well as the workmen carry out their obligations?

I am much less interested in indicting people for what has happened in the past than in ensuring that we get the best possible service from this industry for the country in the future.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that funds collected for alleged aid to dependants of imprisoned Cypriots have not in fact left this country; and whether he will investigate the matter with a view to taking action against anyone who has obtained money by false pretences, and returning the money to the donors.

I am informed by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis that the police have no evidence which would justify proceedings against any person for obtaining money by false pretence for this purpose.

Is the Home Secretary not aware of the statement that was made in this House that the money collected for this purpose had not left the country? Can he enlighten the House about what has happened to it, and whether it is to be used for subversive propaganda objects other than that for which it was supposed to have been collected?

If the hon. Gentleman has any information on that matter, I shall be glad to have it. He probably is aware that there is no restriction on the transfer of money to Cyprus. I have no power whatever to order accounts to be produced.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) whether he is aware that, owing to the serious injuries which spring-clip knives can inflict and the menace of their sale, the New York Penal Law, Section 1, 896, has made it a criminal offence for any person to offer, sell, loan or give to any person any knife which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife; and whether he will consider the advisability of introducing similar legislation;

(2) whether he is aware that renewed anxiety has occurred in consequence of the killing of a person by a boy 16 years of age by the use of a spring-clip knife, which boy was found guilty of manslaughter; and whether he will introduce legislation, similar to that contained in the penal law of New York, whereby a person who offers, sells, loans, leases, or gives, to any child under the age of 16 years any spring-clip knife or any other dangerous knife or any gun, revolver, or pistol, inter alia, is guilty of a misdemeanour.

I am aware of the public anxiety arising from the use of spring-clip knives, and I am considering whether it would be possible to take any effective action to keep them out of the hands of young persons.

Whilst I am very much obliged to the Home Secretary for at long last realising that something should be done about this matter, may I ask if he will say in respect of the first Question I asked whether he is satisfied or has made any inquiries to satisfy himself as to the effectiveness of the legislation at present in force in New York? In regard to the second Question, would the right hon. and gallant Gentleman be good enough to realise that these "flick" knives can be used for no other than criminal purposes? Even if he is not actually an accessory to attempts to murder, at least he is putting some kind of instrument into the hands of youngsters which ought never to be allowed there under any circumstances.

It is not as easy as the hon. Member makes it appear. There are things like sheath knives worn by Boy Scouts and all sorts of weapons which might be lethal but which are essential to ordinary trade. At the moment, I am having a study made of the New York legislation on the "flick" knife, but I would remind the hon. Member that such knives are greatly used by fishermen and others for legitimate purposes.

Would it be possible for the Home Secretary to consult the President of the Board of Trade to try to stop the import of these knives, which come mainly, I believe, from Italy? That seems the simplest way out of the problem.

I am looking into the matter and will certainly consult my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why in the case of Mr. T. F. S. Milton, pension No. 6, HD 1081, the Ministry of Pensions award of £70 8s. l0d. was deducted from his basic pension before making the calculation of 10 per cent. for the pension increase under the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1956.

Mr. Milton has received the award to which he is entitled under the Act. Regulations which I propose to make in the near future will, however, make it possible to calculate his pensions increase on His present award without any reduction in respect of the industrial injuries award to which the hon. Member refers.

Is it not a fact that at the moment this man and all other former police officers like him have not in fact had their 10 per cent. increase? If the Home Secretary says that they were entitled to an increase under the industrial injuries award, is it not a fact that when that award was given the equivalent was knocked off the basic pension? Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman look into the arithmetic of the matter again, because these men are being deprived of something to which they are entitled?

I think that is being put right but it cannot be done until the Regulations are made. It is a very complicated matter. In this case it will be back-dated to April last.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will cause legislation to be introduced at an early date giving him the necessary powers to deal with gang warfare and the commercial organisation of vice.

No, Sir. Offences of violence of the kind in question are punishable by imprisonment for life, and suggestions for amendments of the law to give the police wider powers in conducting investigations would be unlikely to commend themselves to Parliament or the public.

As regards the commercial organisation of vice, which is a totally different matter, the question whether any amendment, and if so what amendment, should be made in the law relating to prostitution is among those which are being considered by the Wolfenden Committee. As I said in the House on 2nd July, it would be premature and unwise to legislate on any aspect of the subject until the Committee's Report has been studied.

Does the Home Secretary realise that there are a large number of matters outside those of which he has spoken? The first refers to the recruiting for the police, and it is necessary for legislation to implement the recent awards, which undoubtedly would have a good effect very quickly. Does he not realise that a very large proportion of the difficulties arise from the bogus club and from drink? Would it not be possible to get some legislation through the House of Commons to deal with that? Would it not be possible, also, to consider prohibiting known gangsters attending racecourses?

The hon. Member has asked a great number of supplementary questions. On the last one in regard to racecourses, I think he would appreciate that the position has been practically entirely cleared up compared with the situation in the 'twenties and 'thirties. The other supplementary questions are rather outside the terms of his Question. I repeat that there is already punishment of imprisonment for life for some of these offences.

Does it not ill become the hon. Member for Eccles (Mr. Proctor) to ask a Question of this nature, as his party was largely instrumental for passing the anti-hanging Bill, thereby encouraging robbery with violence and, in the final resort, murder?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that a letter handed in for censorship at Pentonville prison on 10th June and addressed to the hon. Member for Shoreditch and Finsbury was not delivered until 18th June; and if he will cancel the instructions under which letters sent by prisoners to Members of Parliament are censored and copied before posting.

I have been unable to ascertain the reason why the letter took so long to reach the hon. Member, but the delay, which I regret, does not appear to have been due to the time taken to censor or copy the letter. The purpose of taking copies of prisoners' letters to Members of Parliament was to facilitate inquiries and expedite replies to hon. Members' letters, but the practice has disadvantages and I agree that the experiment of dispensing with them might be tried. I am accordingly directing that the practice be suspended. As regards censorship of prisoners' letters, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Hale) on 21st June.

Is the Home Secretary aware that the question of delay was far less important than the second part of my Question and this his reply to that will give great satisfaction? Will he indicate whether this change will be made immediately and that from today prisoners' letters to Members of Parliament will no longer be copied or censored?

I am directing that the practice should be suspended.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the normal capacity of the Bristol Prison with one prisoner for each cell; the present number of prisoners housed in the prison; and what steps are being taken to increase the prison accommodation and to deal with offenders other than by sending them to the prison.

On the night of 16th July, 1956, there was normal accommodation at Bristol prison for 237 prisoners of which 207 places were in cells and 30 in rooms. There were 231 prisoners in cells that night and 37 prisoners in rooms. The additional accommodation in the two new prisons and the psychiatric institution which it is proposed to build will ease the pressure on general local prisons such as Bristol. I have asked the Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders to consider possible alternatives to short terms of imprisonment and a Committee of the Council is actively engaged on the problem.

Could the Home Secretary tell us how many cells were occupied by three prisoners or more?

I think there were 78 prisoners at that time who were three in a cell.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that some London secretarial agencies supplying clerical staff on a hiring basis deduct 4s. in every £ each week on the salary earned by such employees however long the employment may last; and whether he will consider legislation to put a stop to this practice.

I understand that the hon. Member is referring to agencies who themselves employ staff and hire them out by the hour or day for secretarial work. On the information available to me, I do not consider that the terms of such employment is a matter which is appropriate for Government legislation.

Surely the right hon. and gallant Gentleman realises that this practice bears very hardly indeed on many a woman or girl who has only this income to live on and that to take 4s. in the £ week by week is a shocking scandal? Surely the Government should take notice of it?

I think it would be a new departure if the Government were to legislate to control wages between private people and their staffs.

They are not their staffs.

They are their staffs. [HON. MEMBERS: "NO."] The right hon. Member says so in his Question. They supply staff on a hire basis. The Question refers to:

"London secretarial agencies supplying clerical staff on a hiring basis."

Therefore, according to the Question they hire out these people. In any case, I would suggest that those who take on this employment must know what the terms are before they take it.

Is not the Home Secretary aware that the agencies do not employ them in the ordinary sense of the term? They advertise for them but never employ them themselves. They pass them on to employers. The employee has to go back week by week to the agency for the money and then the deduction is made.

I am not sure whether we are on the same point. I assume that the girls employed must be employed by the agency. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Someone must go to the agency to ask for a girl to work as a typist. Whether she goes there or not, I assume she must know what the terms are. I should have thought that, with a great shortage of this type of staff at the moment, it would be possible to make a perfectly reasonable agreement. In any case, it would be quite a new departure for the Government to introduce legislation to control wages between private employers and their staffs.

Would it not be advisable to ensure that all these agencies are registered and that the terms on which they work should be subject to Government control? [HON. MEMBERS: "NO."] Is not that the way to meet the problem?

That is another matter. We are talking about what are the terms. It is up to the people who go to the agency to refuse or to accept the terms.

asked the Minister of Education whether in designating colleges as regional colleges of technology, he will provide for their continuing to offer courses designed to lead to university degrees.

Neither colleges of advanced technology nor regional colleges which prepare students for university degrees will be prevented by me from continuing to do so, so long as the courses concerned remain efficient and economical. But, for the reasons given in paragraph 60 of the White Paper on Technical Education (Cmd. 9703), I regard it as important that students in technical colleges should be able to work for a qualification of high standing that would not involve the disadvantages inherent in an external degree.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that, if the regional colleges are encouraged to give university courses, it will maintain the quality of their staff and increase the general interest which they are taking in their work and make them feel that they are not being discriminated against for the benefit of the national colleges?

There will not be any difference between regional colleges and the national colleges in regard to the Hives' award, and we think that it will be more in the interests of the students that courses should be drawn up to suit local needs, possibly local industry. The disadvantage of the external degree lies in that direction.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware of the number of boys who have been drowned in British canals, rivers, and seas owing to their inability to swim; and if he will now provide better and more extensive facilities for the promotion, in schools and other places under their authority, of education in the art of swimming.

Local education authorities are well aware of the importance of teaching children to swim. As to the provision of additional baths, I would refer the hon. and learned Member to the Answer which my right hon. Friend gave him on 31st May last.

Does not the Minister realise that this should be encouraged and that the provision of adequate education in swimming provides not only for safety but also for physical fitness, which should have a very high priority in his plan? Will he ensure that it has?

Yes, Sir, I agree, and I admire the persistence of the hon. and learned Gentleman in raising the matter. However, I equally believe that local authorities are aware of it and are doing all they can.

asked the Prime Minister what consideration he has given to the need for an extra Minister at the Board of Trade.

I am satisfied that there is no need for an extra Minister at the Board of Trade.

Is the Prime Minister aware that either the number of Ministers is inadequate or his present Ministers are hopelessly inadequate? If he is not aware of either of those things, will he carry out an investigation to ascertain why the Ministry is so inefficient at present?

I do not think I accept the hon. Lady's last conclusion. I think she will agree with me that, even if Ministers are not always as accessible as she might wish on some occasion, that would not be a final argument for increasing the number of Ministers. Otherwise, we might find quite a multiplication sum going on.

asked the Prime Minister what response he has received to his appeal to private industry by way of specific assurances that restraint will be exercised in the payment of increased dividends.

The right hon. Gentleman will have seen the recent statement of leading associations of private industry recommending to their members among other things great restraint in prices. Such restraint would naturally have an influence on the level of profits and dividends.

Did the Prime Minister notice that the statement by the F.B.I. and other bodies contained no reference to dividends? In view of the recent interference by the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in wage negotiations, is it now the Governments' policy that there should be Government control of wages but Conservative freedom in profits and dividends?

The right hon. Gentleman knows that that is not accurate, and that my right hon. Friend's so-called "interference" is not accepted. There are other precedents in that matter. As regards the question of prices, the right hon. Gentleman might notice what the Director of the British Employers' Confederation said, that—it was quite clear in the matter—the solution of achieving the equilibrium lay in employers taking calculated risks in using their profit margins for steadying prices. I suggest that is exactly what the nation would like to see.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the virtual indestructibility of certain sinister products, including strontium 90, following thermonuclear tests, and the consequential build-up of deposits, he will expedite discussions with the United States of America and give urgent consideration to the offer of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to stop further tests.

I have dealt with this subject during the last few days, and I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the statements which I have made.

I think the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the Question was tabled before he made his speech on Monday. Nevertheless, is he satisfied that public opinion has been sufficiently aroused and alerted regarding the cumulative effects of these tests?

As I said in my speech, I feel that the matter—we must be careful to strike a balance—is not immediately urgent in that sense. On the other hand, it is a matter with which, in my judgment, nations must deal before it becomes urgent. That is why we have thought it necessary to prepare ourselves for whatever consultations are required to try to bring the matter forward.

In all his answers and in his speech on Monday, the Prime Minister has spoken of "limitation of tests." Has he considered the plea by eminent American atomic scientists that the total prohibition of thermo-nuclear tests would prevent the development of hydrogen warheads for guided missiles? Does he consider that a guided missile with a hydrogen warhead would be a mortal danger to this country, and, therefore, that the stopping of the tests is a major British defence interest?

First, perhaps I might say how glad we all are to see the right hon. Gentleman back in his place. What he says is true; I have carefully chosen "limitation". I think—with his experience, the right hon. Gentleman may agree with me—it is wise to start with this method. I do not, if I might use such a phrase, necessarily limit myself to "limitation," but I believe that the best chance of getting agreement in this very difficult matter is by starting with limitation.

Is it the intention of the Government to reply to the proposals made by Mr. Shepilov last week after having completed the study of the proposal to which the right hon. Gentleman referred in a reply to me?

Perhaps the right hon. and learned Gentleman would be good enough to table a Question to the Foreign Office about that matter. I am not sure what the plans are.

Will my right hon. Friend note the zeal with which the Opposition desire to limit the manufacture and testing of a weapon which they themselves admit is a decisive factor in the maintenance of peace?

asked the Prime Minister to make a statement regarding the future appointment of Permanent Under-Secretary to the Treasury and the designation of official head of the Home Civil Service.

asked the Prime Minister to make a statement on the recent changes in the senior posts of the Civil Service.

asked the Prime Minister what are to be the duties of Sir Roger Makins in his new appointment.

On the forthcoming retirement of the present Permanent Secretary to the Treasury the post will lapse and two Joint Permanent Secretaries will be appointed. They will be Sir Norman Brook and Sir Roger Makins.

Sir Norman Brook, in addition to his duties as Secretary of the Cabinet, will advise me on problems of Government machinery and will have general charge of the organisation and management of the Home Civil Service. He will advise me in my capacity as First Lord of the Treasury on appointments to senior posts in that service and will be official Head of the Home Civil Service. He will advise the Chancellor of the Exchequer on matters concerning pay and other conditions of service.

Sir Roger Makins will have charge under the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the financial and economic work of the Treasury.

The House would not wish me to let this occasion pass without paying a tribute to the outstanding services rendered to the nation by Sir Edward Bridges over a long period of years—both as Permanent Secretary to the Treasury and during the war as Secretary of the Cabinet.

In endorsing most warmly what my right hon. Friend has said in his tribute to Sir Edward Bridges, and in warmly welcoming the decision which he has taken to sub-divide the duties, might I ask him whether he can tell us which of the two new permanent officials will be responsible for carrying on the work of various committees on which Sir Edward Bridges sat, especially those concerned with defence?

The new arrangement means that the Chancellor, who is already responsible for directing and coordinating economic policy, will have the advice of a full-time Permanent Secretary. That seems to us a desirable improvement. It will result in the Secretary to the Cabinet, Sir Norman Brook, in his new capacity, being responsible for the higher appointments which, as former Members of the Cabinet will know, have inevitably taken up a certain amount of the time of Sir Edward Bridges as head of the Civil Service

First, may I associate my right hon. and hon. Friends and myself with the tribute rightly paid to Sir Edward Bridges? Might I ask the Prime Minister two questions? First, why has it been decided that Sir Norman Brook should be head of the Home Civil Service, thus excluding the Foreign Office and, presumably, certain other Departments as well? Does the right hon. Gentleman really think it wise to make this distinction in respect of appointments and matters of that kind, and why should it be made? Secondly, for exactly what will Sir Norman Brook be responsible to the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

To take the question about the Home Civil Service, this is an integrated Service, and those who enter it are initially posted to a certain Department. The right hon. Gentleman is correct in saying that the Foreign Office is not included, but it has not been included since 1943, since the date of what were called the Eden Reforms but were carried through this House by Mr. Bevin, and, therefore, will, I hope, be acceptable to all concerned on either side of the House. As regards Sir Norman Brook's responsibility to the Chancellor, he will advise the Chancellor on matters concerning pay and other conditions in the Service, whereas he advises me, as Sir Edward Bridges did, on the higher appointments in the Civil Service.

As regards the Treasury, may we take it that the appointment of Sir Roger Makins is, in fact, to strengthen the Treasury and the staff for the better collection of statistics, which the Chancellor foretold in his Budget speech? Further, is it intended to give him a bigger planning staff, on the lines of Sir Stafford Cripps's staff, with a view to making inquiries into better methods of controlling credit and currency with a view to stemming inflation?

Naturally, we should not have made the appointments had we not thought that the result would be to strengthen the Treasury and the advice given to the Government generally. It will. I am sure, have that result. It will also make sure that Sir Roger Makins will not have to carry some of the burdens which used to lie, I thought sometimes, perhaps, a little unfairly on Sir Edward Bridges as Head of the Civil Service.

Would not this be a good opportunity to put into force the recommendations of the 16th Report of the Select Committee on National Expenditure, which dealt with organisation and methods in the Civil Service, and which recommended that a senior civil servant of this kind should be responsible to the Prime Minister for the efficiency of the Civil Service and for the general promotion of organisation and methods in all the Departments?

I do not think there is anything in what I have said which contradicts what the right hon. Gentleman has said. What seems to me important in these matters, if I may repeat it, is that now the Chancellor will have a distinguished civil servant whose whole time is to be devoted to advising him on the economic and financial matters with which he has to deal.

May I return to the question of responsibility for appointments in the Foreign Service? Is the Prime Minister responsible for making those senior appointments and, if so, who advises him on them now? And is it only the Foreign Office which is excluded from Sir Norman Brook's powers, or is it also the Colonial Office and the Commonwealth Relations Office?

The right hon. Gentleman is quite right. This is slightly, I will not say anomalous, but, by the reforms of 1943, the Foreign Office was excluded from the rest of the Civil Service, the reason being its special overseas duties, and other points which, at the time, seemed reasonable. As regards appointments, they are, of course, the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary. I do not think that there is any law laid down, but I think that it is customary—certainly it was customary when I was Foreign Secretry—to consult the Prime Minister on certain senior appointments, but they remain the responsibility, I think I am right in saying, of the Foreign Secretary himself.

May I ask the Prime Minister whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer was anxious to obtain additional advice? If so, does not that indicate excessive modesty on his part? And is not his right hon. Friend aware that advice has frequently been tendered to him by this side of the House? What does this really mean? Does it mean that the Chancellor has been a failure or a success?

I feel sure that the right hon. Gentleman would not complain that any of my colleagues, or any other hon. Member of the House, showed excessive modesty.

What is to be the salary of Sir Roger Makins? Is he to get more than the Chancellor of the Exchequer—and, if so, why?

I am very grateful for the hon. Gentleman's sympathy. For some time past, I think, senior civil servants have been getting more than their political chiefs.

What is it?