asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what the estimated annual additional cost of the latest increase in sugar prices will be to British consumers.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food for what reasons he has increased the price of raw sugar; and what effect he estimates that this will have on retail sugar prices.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement concerning the rise in the price of sugar to the refiners; and what estimate he made of the effect on the consumer before making this increase.

My Department on 28th October increased the basic price at which it sells raw sugar from 42s. 10½d. to 46s. 10½d. a cwt. in order to cover its costs on sugar during the current financial year. As a result, there was a corresponding increase in the first-hand price of granulated sugar. If the whole of this increase were passed on to the consumer it would amount to about ½d. a lb., but there is keen competition and I expect the price to continue to vary from shop to shop. Since the effect upon the retail price is not known, it is not possible to estimate the additional cost to the consumer.

As the Government have failed in reducing prices—and in some other respects as well—has not the time come for the right hon. Gentleman to follow the praiseworthy example of his right hon. Friend the Member for Melton (Mr. Nutting) and tender his resignation from the Government?

It has been the normal practice of the Government to pass on the cost of sugar to the consumer, that is to say, the average cost of the Commonwealth negotiated sugar and the world price sugar.

Why has the right hon. Gentleman jumped the gun? He has just appointed the Sugar Board; why could he not have left this to the consideration of the Sugar Board? Does he not realise that he is open to the suspicion that he is doing this purely to help private enterprise?

The reasons arise, as I have explained, in pursuance of our normal policy of covering our costs. As I explained, I think, to the hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) at the time the Sugar Bill went through the House, we did not intend to sell our stocks of sugar—and these are purely seasonal stocks which will accumulate, as they always do, in the last three months of the year—to the Sugar Board but, instead, to sell them to the refiners.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many proposals to provide new slaughterhouses or to bring existing ones up to modern standards have been received by him; what is their estimated cost; how many have received his approval; and how many await his decision.

Since June, 1954, 201 such proposals for private slaughterhouses have been received, of which 156 estimated to cost about £300,000 have been approved. Twenty-one are under consideration. In the same period, improvements costing £330,000 have been carried out at 42 slaughterhouses provided by local authorities, and one new public slaughterhouse costing £16,500 has been built. Many local authorities are known to have proposals for building new public slaughterhouses or for major reconstruction of existing premises. Owing to the restrictions on capital expenditure, I am at present unable to approve any local authority schemes except where the work is essential in the interests of public health and safety.

The right hon. Gentleman says he is unable to approve many schemes submitted by local authorities and by private enterprise. Is this not happening at the same time that very great improvements are being made to facilities for beef imported into this country ; and is the home producer not, therefore, at a disadvantage in the quality of his produce reaching the consumer?

I am entirely with the hon. Member, I think, in wanting to see many new slaughterhouses built and existing ones improved. If the hon. Gentleman will study my answers, he will see that we do approve the very big majority of applications for private slaughterhouses, and the temporary restriction at present is on local authority slaughterhouses owing to the paramount need to restrict Government and local government expenditure temporarily.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is quite intolerable to show this bias against the public authorities? Why this distinction? In Sunderland, as he is well aware, we have a scheme which has been supported by all interests in the town, and we have been told it is inopportune to put it forward now because there is no chance of it being accepted. Why distinguish between the public schemes of local authorities and those of private enterprise?

Because of the distinction between public expenditure and private expenditure.

The right hon. Gentleman speaks of the distinction between public and private expenditure, but surely he recognises that the meat which passes through the municipal slaughterhouse is of as much importance as the other?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many applications have been received for the building or modernising of slaughterhouses in Rochester and Chatham.

One, Sir, for the extension of a private slaughterhouse in Chatham, for which consent was given on the 29th July, 1954.

Whilst thanking the Minister for having taken action on that occasion, may I ask him whether he realises that there are other slaughterhouses which ought to be rebuilt or modernised in order to cause less inconvenience to my constituents?

I think that may well be so, and I would say that if there are any applications for new private slaughterhouses or extensions to private slaughterhouses of which the right hon. Gentleman knows, I should be very ready to consider them.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many students there are in the forestry schools in the current year ; how many places he expects to provide for new students next year and the following year; and how these figures compare with 1954–55.

In the current session (1956–57), there are 219 students, including 97 in their first year; 125 new students are expected next year and 96 in the following year. In the last session (1955–56), the total number was 238, of whom 134 were in their first year; in the session 1954–55, the figures were 235 and 121, respectively.

Is this not a falling-off in the number of students of forestry at a time when the Government have announced greater facilities for technical education? Does this mean that we are shutting down some of our forestry schools in this country, or will they be undermanned and under-staffed?

The intake is regulated to fit the number of junior vacancies which are estimated to become available over the next year or two. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree that it would be a mistake to encourage these men to go through the training if there were not jobs either in private forestry or under the Forestry Commission when they have finished their training. I am glad to say that there is a waiting list at present for young men to enter this training, and the activities of the Forestry Commission are certainly not being curtailed.

Would my right hon. Friend say whether he is, in his reply, limiting his figures to the universities or including also forestry schools for foresters as opposed to what the Forestry Commission calls forestry officers under the control of the Forestry Commission? Does my right hon. Friend's answer cover all forestry education in this country?

These figures I have given relate to the forester schools which train young men for the junior position of assistant forester, or the equivalent in private forests.

Then they are not concerned with the universities.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he will take to prevent excessive quantities of imported meat from undermining the foundations of a prosperous home meat industry.

In spite of this year's increases, imports of beef from the Argentine are about 30 per cent. less than pre-war while home production is 25 per cent. greater. Current imports are not excessive, and I cannot anticipate what action might be necessary in hypothetical circumstances. The hon. Member will be aware of the steps which are being taken to adapt the livestock guarantee arrangements so as to ensure that the home meat industry continues to be fully safeguarded.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say to what level he expects the market price of home-killed fatstock to fall before he expects to take any steps to prevent this deluge, as he calls it, of imported beef?

I never called it a deluge. I have said on previous occasions what I am saying here, that imports at their current level are not excessive.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the best methods of regulating the importation of this meat would be by a tariff; and is he aware that the only way of countering the dumping of meat, with a depreciated currency, would be by a tariff which would help to pay the guaranteed price to the farmers instead of it being paid by the taxpayer?

I will, as I always do, give great weight to the views of my hon. Friend.

With all respect to my hon. Friend the Member for Norfolk, South-West (Mr. Dye), will the Minister note that it is not of necessity to the advantage of the consumer that there should be a limitation of supplies of imported meat?

I am well aware of that aspect; I agree with the hon. Member that it is a very important one, which has to be considered.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many applications for grant towards land drainage have been received from Kent during the current financial year; what was the estimated cost; how many have been sanctioned; and how many are still outstanding.

Since 1st April, 1956, applications for grant aid have been received in respect of six arterial land drainage schemes in Kent, estimated to cost £70,650. Five of these schemes, estimated to cost £69,645, have been sanctioned, and one, estimated to cost £1,005, has been approved in principle but deferred owing to restrictions on capital expenditure.

Does the Minister realise that this is really not doing enough, and that many people in Kent are of the opinion that more money might be spent on land drainage than on war?

When the right hon. Gentleman looks at my figures, he will see that we have approved £69,000 out of £70,000 worth of applications.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what has been the effect of the extra subsidy given on lime applied to farm land in the summer months.

Wet weather and delayed harvesting interfered with summer liming. It is estimated that summer consumption was lower than last year's high record but greater than in the wet year of 1954 and much higher than it was in years when there was no summer subsidy.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether, with all this extra subsidy given in the summer, we are getting a much better distribution of lime throughout the year and more economical working?

I am quite certain that is the result. I agree with my hon. Friend that the summer subsidies have had a marked effect and, I think, have been very much to the advantage of our grassland.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will consider the revision of his Department's calculation of crop yields to take into account excess moisture content in a wet harvest which must be removed to bring the grain to marketable condition ; and if he will give an estimate of the percent age reduction that would apply to the 1956 estimates of grain yields if this were done.

I am looking into the possibility of making an allowance for excess moisture content. I am not, however, in a position to make an estimate of the reduction for excess moisture which would be applicable to this harvest.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it would be a good thing to be able to compare like with like, and that if 15 per cent. is the standard moisture content of grain before it can be sold, it would be a good thing to keep all our crop estimates on that basis?

I agree that one should always try to get better and better statistics, but this year, I think, they have been produced on exactly the same basis as during the last ten years.

How is the right hon. Gentleman going to make an allowance in this case if he cannot compute the moisture content caused by this year's harvest?

For the future, I mean. I am considering looking at the possibility of making an allowance in future returns. The difficulty this year has been that the figures we have had cover grain some of which has been dried and some of which has not, and on the returns from individual farmers it is very difficult to compute an average moisture content.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how milk production for the past three months compares with production in the same period of 1955 and the average for the five years 1951 to 1955; and to what extent the consumption of liquid milk in the past five years has increased.

In July, August and September, 1955, sales off farms in England and Wales totalled 390·5 million gallons ; the figure for the corresponding period this year was 426·8 million gallons. The average for the five years 1951–55 was 374·8 million gallons. The quantity of milk sold for liquid consumption in the last twelve months was about 2·4 per cent. less than it was five years ago.

In view of the fall in the consumption of liquid milk, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is really scandalous to put up the retail price again, thus further depressing the consumption of liquid milk?

As I have explained to the House, the most recent increase in the price of milk—the one to be made on 1st January next—was a decision reached purely on budgetary and financial grounds.

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean by that reply that he was not consulted about it and is no party to it?

No, very much to the contrary.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that it is perhaps natural that the consumption of milk should go down as the consumption of other foods has gone up and that when the consumption of other foods was so low there was a higher consumption of milk?

I agree with my right hon. Friend. I think that is undoubtedly so. The public today has a much wider choice of food supplies than it had five years ago.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what consultations he had with the Milk Marketing Board about the decision to increase the retail price of milk.

It is not the practice to consult with outside bodies on such an issue.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, quite apart from its general unfairness, the producers and the Milk Marketing Board are very upset by the recent announcement regarding the retail price increase for milk? Is he also aware that before the war the housewife subsidised the manufacturer and it looks as if this may happen again? Is he further aware that the producers believe that, far from helping them in their present difficulties with regard to surplus, this is likely to aggravate the position, and for these reasons will he consult the Milk Marketing Board?

I am, of course, aware of the general views of the Milk Marketing Board, but, as I explained in answer to an earlier Question, this particular decision was taken on budgetary and financial grounds.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consult the Board in view of the complaints which it has made and the statement which it has recently issued?

I am in very close touch with the Milk Marketing Board.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what research work is being caried out under his auspices to find more efficient and economic methods of piping and filling in drainage ditches so as to enable small fields to be amalgamated.

A small team of the Ministry's land drainage engineers is investigating methods of piping and filling in ditches, which would not only facilitate the amalgamation of small fields but also overcome the difficulties of ditch maintenance.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that helpful information, may I ask whether he agrees that research into new methods and materials could bring very great help, particularly to small farms on the heavy difficult land?

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. I am looking at the matter to see if there is any other way in which I can help forward these very desirable developments.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when he expects to receive the report of the Runciman Committee on the Marketing of Horticultural Produce.

Lord Runciman tells me that his Committee has made very considerable progress and hopes to complete its report by the end of this year or early next year.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Committee has had the advantage of visiting the Continent, and, in particular, Germany to see the working of the farmers' co-operative in vegetable auctions there?

The Committee, or some members of it, has cerainly visited the Continent. I am not sure whether it has visited Germany or not, but I will find out and inform my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when he expects to bring forward draft safety regulations under the Agriculture (Safety, Health and Welfare) Act, 1956.

I hope to make the first of these regulations, dealing with first aid, in the near future. Other regulations will be made progressively after the necessary consultations have taken place.

When my right hon. Friend is preparing the regulations, particularly the safety regulations, will he at the same time prepare illustrative pamphlets and posters, and, if possible, a film on farm safety so that the regulations, when they come into force, may have with them objective illustrations to enable the ordinary farm worker and farmer to understand how to implement them?

I will consider the suggestions of my hon. Friend, both of which seem to me to be good ones.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food which counties are clear of rabbits; and what reports he has had of local increases.

I cannot say that any county is completely clear of rabbits. Recent reports indicate increases in some areas, mostly in the Midlands and southeast. Though so far the increases fortunately do not seem to be very marked, the threat is a serious one and calls for the most energetic action on the part of all concerned.

Is it not a little disappointing that we cannot yet record one single county as being entirely clear? Will my right hon. Friend see that the clearing up of these pockets of rabbits is not overlooked, particularly now that the land is clear of crops and that after the frost the undergrowth will have died down and it can be seen exactly how extensive is the spread of rabbits?

The point I want to emphasise to my hon. Friend is that I cannot say for sure that any county is completely clear. In some counties it is nothing more than a rumour that a rabbit has been seen somewhere during the month. As regards the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I agree with him that this period of the year when the foliage has died down will give us a great opportunity of dealing with any survivors.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the country feels that there are too many rabbits in the Government?

I can give the hon. Gentleman an assurance that I will not give any reward for any ears sent in from Members of the Opposition.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give any estimate as to whether the number of rabbits in the country generally is greater or less than it was at this time last year?

I should rather fear that the total number was greater than at this time last year, but I think that is inevitable owing to the course of the disease. The point is that in no county is the number of rabbits yet out of control, and, therefore, we still have a splendid opportunity of dealing with this pest.

Has there not been an increase in the number of rats lately?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is aware that in the pork and bacon market in Canada pigs are fed to one size and weight for both outlets; and if he will investigate whether this method holds any advantage over the British market, which demands pigs of two sizes.

This question was considered by the Howitt Committee; but it concluded that in this country there were overwhelming objections to concentration on a single type of pig.

Can my right hon. Friend tell us what the objections are, because, to the ordinary man, it seems that this pendulum effect in the market which the existence of the two separate sizes and weights must bring about must always have an unsteadying effect? Even if the consumer is going to lose something in the quality of his pork, surely there would be something to be said for bringing these weights nearer together.

I think the Committee was mainly impressed that the consumer demand seems to be centred on the lighter-weight pig.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many persons in his Department are employed administering the Fatstock Guarantee Payments at the present time, and how many were so engaged in January of this year.

The number of persons in my Department employed in administering the Fatstock Guarantee Payments Scheme at 1st January, 1956, was 1,410 and at 1st November, 1956, 884. On 1st April, 1956, the Department of Agriculture for Scotland took over from my Department the responsibility for administering the Payments Scheme in Scotland, together with 215 staff. The comparable figures for England and Wales on the two dates are therefore 1,195 and 884.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the new scheme is going to lead to any increase in administrative staff or whether this commendable reduction will be able to continue?

The supplementary payment that is being made may call temporarily for a very small increase in staff, but when that has been done, I would certainly say that it would call for no permanent increase in staff, but possibly for a reduction.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what has been the total production of hen eggs so far this year, compared with the com parative period last year; and how the present retail price compares with that current at the same date last year.

The total quantity of hen eggs sold to packing stations from April to September, 1956, inclusive, was 270 million dozen or about 8 per cent. greater than in the corresponding period last year. During October it is provisionally estimated that throughput of packing stations was about 23 per cent. higher than in October, 1955. Retail prices of home-produced large eggs are at present about 6d. per dozen lower than a year ago, but prices of other grades are about 1s. 0d. a dozen lower.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that information. Can he say what progress the proposed new marketing scheme is making?

The next step will be to put the scheme before Parliament for approval, and I hope to be able to do that shortly.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what new methods have been adopted by the Ordnance Survey Department in the production of maps; and to what extent they are leading to increased productivity.

New materials and processes introduced for survey work have included the use of stable materials for the large scale field surveys; the plotting of control points on the field documents by co-ordinatograph; and the use of rapid traversing equipment for minor control surveys. Self-reducing tacheometers for large scale surveys are being gradually introduced in place of chain survey methods; precise three-dimensional plotting machines are being increasingly used for air surveys; the AOE-computer at the National Physical Laboratory is being used for aerial triangulation work; and punched card equipment for the computations of traversing and tertiary levelling. I understand that these new methods and equipment have caused output to rise by from 20 to 50 per cent.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that information. Can he say to what extent this information is used for commercial purposes and whether this makes any considerable contribution to the cost thereof?

The Ordnance Survey Department produces the basic maps, which are then sold to commercial firms for reproduction and sale. It does a great deal of work. I believe that the progress in new methods and standards which has been achieved during recent years reflects great credit on all concerned with the Department.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is satisfied with recent progress in the making of grass silage; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. Silage making is well established on a nucleus of farms, but there is room for much expansion especially on our smaller farms. To stimulate this the Government have undertaken to seek power to make grants towards the cost of silo construction, and I hope to announce my proposals early in the new Session. The National Agricultural Advisory Service continues to make this problem one of its main themes.

Can the Minister say whether he is satisfied with the protein content of silage already made and whether it helps substantially to reduce the amount of protein imported from abroad at dollar cost?

As my hon. Friend knows, silage varies enormously in quality, but I have had many indications that the average level of quality has been improving during the past year or two. I am quite certain that good silage does help us to save a great deal of imported feeding-stuffs. That is one of the reasons why I am anxious to encourage it. Another reason is because I am sure that it will be to the economic advantage of the farmer to make it, provided that it is good.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how much agricultural land has been lost in Great Britain for building during the past five years.

Precise figures for the loss of agricultural land are not available. The only information is derived from the agricultural returns which are collected for other purposes and which exclude holdings of one acre or less and those parts of agricultural holdings not used for agricultural production. Subject to these reservations, the agricultural returns suggest that the net loss of agricultural land in Great Britain to building has been 177,000 acres over the five years 1950–51 to 1954–55. Figures for 1955–56 are not yet available.

Does my right hon. Friend appreciate the seriousness of this loss of home-produced food, and the importance of ensuring that land taken from agriculture for building is used economically by having a higher proportion of taller buildings?

I agree about the importance of making sure that we do not lose a single acre of good agricultural land if that can be avoided. On the other hand, we cannot stop this development, and therefore the aim must be to make sure that development proceeds on other than the best agricultural land.

Will the Minister never realise that if he wishes to bring about the minimum use of agricultural land for building purposes and the best use of town land, all he has to do is to introduce a tax on land value and then everything will fall into place?

I am afraid there will be no time to do that during the present Session.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the figures he has given are the net figures taking into account new land made available for agricultural purposes by cleaning, drainage and reclamation? Will he consider making an order that when land is lost through road building or town development and the like, some effort must be made by the responsible authorities to replace that land with land reclaimed?

I agree in general with what my hon. Friend has said. These figures are net. As we have inevitably to face some loss of agricultural land year by year for development, I believe that we must redouble our efforts to see that we are making up that loss in other ways, and I believe that it can be done.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what representations he has received about the relaxation of credit restrictions to enable farmers to finance current operations and production programmes for the forthcoming year; and what reply he has made.

The representations I have received from the National Farmers' Union and others show that farming opinion would welcome a relaxation of the present credit restrictions. While a total exemption for agriculture would not be justified as long as these restrictions are necessary, I have said that I am convinced that the banks will continue to consider sympathetically the credit needs of farmers, and particularly of those who have suffered from the weather during this year's expensive harvest. I am satisfied that the banks are doing this.

May I express limited satisfaction with the right hon. Gentleman's reply? In view of the importance of this question of agricultural credit and in view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has set up many commissions and committees in his time, may I ask whether he would consider setting up a commission to consider the general question of agricultural credit?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the importance of the subject. I am grateful to him for, at any rate, the limited tribute that he is satisfied with my answer. I will consider all aspects of this question and all possible lines of action.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what consideration he has given to the question of designating the West Riding of York shire as a white area in view of the absence during recent months of any out breaks of fowl pest in the area.

I am at present conducting a review of the "clean area" policy which I intend to discuss shortly with representatives of the poultry industry. Pending this review, I have decided not to add to the present clean area.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what further investigations have been made to find the cause of death of the foal from the National Stud which died at the Doncaster sales.

As an examination of internal organs at the Ministry's Veterinary Laboratory disclosed no evidence of infectious disease or poisoning, further inquiries would not have served any useful purpose.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a number of my constituents are concerned about the death of this animal and that it is not the first occasion that animals from this Stud have died at the Doncaster sales? May I again ask whether he is satisfied with the management of the Stud and that there was no trace of arsenic? Do I understand it was anticipated that this animal would have realised the highest price of any animal produced at the National Stud?

I share the chagrin of my hon. Friend at the loss of this foal, but I am completely satisfied with the management of the National Stud, and there was no evidence of arsenic or any other poisoning.

Is the Minister aware that studs, whether they belong to the nation or not, lose a percentage of foals from unascertained causes?

I am afraid that that is one of the sad facts of life.

Is it not a fact that this animal was a yearling and not a foal?

My hon. and gallant Friend has raised a feeling of great uncertainty in my mind which I shall take an early opportunity to resolve.

asked the Minister of Health by what means people who cannot afford to pay 1s. for each prescription but are not in receipt of National Assistance will be able to apply for reimbursement.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Members for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) and Attercliffe (Mr. J. Hynd) on 1st November.

Does the hon. Lady realise that there are many thousands of people whose income is just a little above the scale of the National Assistance Board and that today 1s. is quite a lot to them, and when they have to pay 3s. or 4s. more some of them will not be able to afford these prescriptions and it will be a difficult job for those visiting these people to find out what their income is? Therefore, the whole scheme is utterly impossible, and is not the best course to ask her to ask her right hon. Friend to abolish this and go back to the old 1s. charge for the whole of the prescription?

The National Assistance Board has already, under the present system, dealt with cases like this, and if an applicant for assistance to the National Assistance Board satisfies the Board's test of hardship in respect of any portion of the payment which he will be required to make, he will be reimbursed the whole payment; so that the person faced with a charge of 5s. for prescriptions who, in the normal case, could establish a case for 2s. reimbursement, will be met on the whole 5s.

In spite of the hon. Lady's explanation, can she reconcile it with the answer which the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave to me on the subject on the day when he made his statement. He then said :

"… all persons in receipt of National Assistance and all old-age pensioners and others who cannot meet the charges without hardship … will be entitled to be reimbursed."

Hardship is the standard that has been accepted by this House and is that carried out and laid down by the National Assistance Board.

Can my hon. Friend make it quite clear, because this is of the very greatest importance, whether people living on small fixed incomes who are slightly above the qualifications for National Assistance as laid down today will be reimbursed in accordance with the Chancellor's statement? We must know the answer.

If the payment for prescriptions brings a case which hitherto has not come within the National Assistance hardship scale above that scale, the person concerned has a perfect right to apply and will be reimbursed by the National Assistance Board.

I apologise for pressing this point, but it is of great importance to the whole country. Will the hon. Lady read the answer of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in which he makes it clear that he is not only referring to people who qualify under National Assistance, but he said to me—

"and others who cannot meet the charges without hardship."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 25th October, 1956; Vol. 558, c. 834.]

The right hon. Lady is aware that there has been always one basis of hardship scale, and it may be that people who are just on the border while they are well and have not hitherto been allowable for a grant from the National Assistance Board will find it an additional hardship to pay the prescription charge, and in that event they will come within the National Assistance scale.

asked the Minister of Health if he will exempt diabetic persons from the proposed increase in charges for prescriptions.

No, Sir. But any person who, on application to the National Assistance Board, shows that he will suffer financial hardship in accordance with the Board's standards will be able to obtain a refund.

Was not the National Health Service introduced to relieve the hardship of the worst sufferers, and is not it a fact that diabetic persons frequently have to get several items on prescriptions? Is the hon. Lady really saying that every time they must trail down to the National Assistance Board in order to have their incomes examined?

In most cases, diabetics have comparatively long-term prescriptions which cover, from our knowledge of prescriptions, at least a month. In stable cases where the doctor is satisfied that those concerned are responsible persons, they may even get as much as two or three months' supply on one prescription.

Could not the hon. Lady ask her right hon. Friend whether he would make a statement which would relieve the anxiety of those chronic patients whose expectation of life is limited to the effect that they at least will be exempt from these extra charges?

I cannot give the right hon. Lady any such undertaking, but I will pass her views to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health what is the normal period covered by a prescription for a diabetic patient.

This is a matter which depends upon the doctor's decision in the circumstances of a particular case.

Will the hon. Lady have special regard to the difficulties of diabetics and other chronic sick? Do their prescriptions normally cover long periods? What is the period? Is there a limit to the period and who sets that limit?

The length of the prescription is entirely a matter for the medical practitioner, but the Ministry is advised that there would be no practical obstacle in the way of prescribing up to three months' supply of insulin to a co-operative patient whose treatment was stabilised.

asked the Minister of Health what arrangements exist for the issue of composite packs to the chronic sick.

Certain composite packs are already listed in the Drug Tariff and my right hon. Friend has informed the British Medical Association that, if the medical profession consider that further composite packs for any particular condition are desirable and would be generally prescribed, he will consider, with the manufacturers, whether appropriate dispensing packs could be produced.

Is the hon. Lady aware that her Answer will cause comfort to many people, and does not that reply and the Answer to Question No. 43 answer most of those who are anxious about hardship cases?

While the chronic sick are waiting for these arrangements to be made with the manufacturers, could not the hon. Lady arrange with her right hon. Friend that certain items which form a composite treatment could be treated as one prescription even under the new arrangements?

This is not a new idea. For certain ailments it is already the practice. For example, the vaporiser set covers several items for bronchitics. Another group of items covers diabetics, and there is a dressing set of five items which are in one pack and which has been in use for a long time.

asked the Minister of Health how many dentists are still required to meet the country's needs; and, in view of the fact that more students are applying for training than the Birmingham Dental Hospital can accommodate, what action he proposes to take to enable students desirous of becoming dentists to receive the necessary training.

No exact assessment is possible. Intending dental students who cannot obtain acceptance at Birmingham should seek admission at other schools. The Committee on Recruitment to the Dental Profession made a number of suggestions as to ways in which the accommodation for dental students could be increased. My right hon. Friend hopes that all dental schools will go out of their way during the next few years to find room for all suitable students who apply for admission.

As I understand that there are some 8,000 dentists required in this country, is it not rather a tragedy that in Birmingham we should have students anxious to become dentists without any facilities for them to do so in the city? Is that not a tragedy for the country, and cannot some action be taken to remedy the position?

It is necessary to take into account all the student places available in the several universities which have dental schools. That Birmingham happens to be popular and has a much greater demand on its accommodation than it can meet does not mean that there are not places available in other dental schools.

asked the Minister of Health which limb-fitting centres are to be moved in the near future.

Plans are being prepared for new buildings for the Birmingham and Liverpool centres, and it will also be necessary in due course to move the Manchester centre. The hon. Member is aware that my right hon. Friend is also considering the problem of accommodation for the Wolverhampton centre.

asked the Minister of Health which of the smaller limb-fitting centres are now to be closed down.

None at present.

asked the Minister of Health if, when limb-fitting centres are moved to another site, he will take trans port and accessibility into consideration in view of the limited mobility of those who use them.

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Health what action he is taking on the £20 million pay increase claimed by the medical profession.

It has already been made known that Her Majesty's Government would not feel justified in considering any claim for a general increase in medical remuneration in present circumstances. As to the profession's assertion that there is a contractual obligation involved, my right hon. Friend is taking legal advice on this.

As it is some time since the Minister decided to take legal advice on the matter, can we now be told what is the effect of this legal advice and whether the Government are under a contractual obligation to concede this pay increase?

I am afraid that I cannot give a reply to the hon. and gallant Gentleman at this moment.

asked the Minister of Health what additional payments will be made to doctors to meet increased practice expenses.

I would refer the hon. and gallant Member to my right hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. Hamilton) on 29th October.

Is the hon. Lady aware that the Minister has publicly announced that doctors will get a pleasant surprise when they receive their December cheques? May we know what is this pleasant surprise? Why the secrecy?

The earlier answer to which I referred showed that for the year ended 31st March, 1955, the latest year for which doctors' practice expenses have been reassessed, they were estimated for Great Britain to have been £23,549,227 or £1,114 per doctor, which is an increase of £114 over the preceding year. For 1954–55 the balancing payment which has to be made when the final returns are in is about £4¼ million, which works out at about £200 per doctor, and this will be paid out with the December quarterly cheques.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in the interests of the Colonial Commonwealth, he will make arrangements whereby those serving in the National Health Service of Great Britain can be seconded to Colonial Territories with a guarantee of their re-employment on their return to Great Britain.

If, as I assume, my hon. Friend is referring to hospital medical staff, arrangements have been made to this end as he will see from a circular which I am sending to him.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that overcrowding has increased at the Birmingham Dental Hospital during the past six months, that waiting lists have been closed, and that owing to pressure in the local anaesthetics department urgent cases have to wait three or four days ; if he will take immediate action to expedite the building of a new dental hospital; and what action he proposes to take in the meantime to relieve the present congestion.

My right hon. Friend is aware that, in spite of the additional accommodation provided last year, this hospital is still under heavy pressure. Plans for a new hospital are under consideration ; and he is asking the regional hospital board and the board of governors to see whether steps can be taken at other hospitals to relieve the immediate situation.

Is the hon. Lady aware that at this dental hospital there is one room with 25 dental chairs in it and two others with 18 dental chairs all practically touching each other? The position is much worse than when I called her attention to it two years ago, and then the matter was "under consideration". Can we have an undertaking that urgent action will be taken by the Minister to see that this position is remedied?

I am not in conflict with the hon. Gentleman over the need for a new hospital. That is accepted. An additional building was brought into operation in 1955, but the pressure on this hospital is great and it should be remembered that it is primarily a teaching hospital and not intended to provide general services in dentistry for all comers.

asked the Minister of Health how many Maltese tubercular patients have been treated and are being treated at Black Notley Hospital, near Braintree; and if he will make a statement.

Eleven, Sir, seven of whom have been discharged home. These patients have been welcomed for treatment here under arrangements made with the Government of Malta.

Can my hon. Friend tell me why it is that there has been this large number of vacancies at Black Notley Hospital?

There are no waiting lists in that area and, as we had available beds for tuberculous patients, we were only too happy to take some patients from Malta.

asked the Minister of Health what representations he has re ceived from doctors resident at Alder Hay Hospital, Liverpool, concerning the in crease in emolument charges.

None, Sir.

Is my hon. Friend aware that soon she will be receiving representations in that the charge on a senior hospital medical officer has been put up from £160 per annum to £350 per annum? Would she see that there is some appeal procedure when the services do not match up with the charge and, finally, can she say whether the charge applies only to bachelors or also to people who are married?

These new charges are payable under an agreement which has been reached by the Medical Whitley Council after assessing accommodation available. In some cases the charges are higher, in others they have been lowered. This is a matter which has been carefully investigated by the Medical Whitley Council.

Will my hon. Friend look into the question of appeal procedure?

I will convey the hon. Member's views to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent there is a shortage of nurses and other hospital staff in Birmingham.

I am obtaining the latest available information from the hospital boards concerned and will write to my hon. Friend.

Would my hon. Friend give an assurance that personnel who have reached retirement age are encouraged to continue in this service?

The retirement levels are laid down by the Whitley Council, but certainly in some circumstances staff, if they are fit and able to do so, are carrying on. and we are grateful for their help.