asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether the proposed Chester Ring Road, Southern Section, will be included in the five-year plan commencing 1st April, 1960.

I cannot say at present as the line has not been finally established.

Is the Minister aware of the acute traffic congestion in and around Chester, and will he give an assurance that all preliminary planning will be expedited?

Yes, Sir. I can give that assurance. A good deal of the preparatory work has already been done, and we shall push on with it as fast as we can.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what is the present staff of the special planning section of his Department which is reviewing the future road requirements of this country for the next two decades; what are their qualifications; how far this section will be reviewing the need for urban motorways as well as other motorways; and how far it is proposed to increase the size of the staff and the scope of their work at an early date.

At headquarters, a staff of eleven engineers and draughtsmen are engaged on the review of future road requirements. In the regions additional work is being done by the divisional road engineers' staffs. At present work is being concentrated on the trunk road requirements, but urban problems, including urban motorways, are also being reviewed.

As freedom of traffic resulting from petrol rationing on urban roads at the present time would give this special planning section some evidence by which it can judge economies of fuel and time in urban districts, would my right hon. Friend ask the section to give special attention to urban motorways and the evidence relating to the freedom of traffic at the present time?

Yes, Sir. I think I ought to explain that the job of this section is to prepare a long-term plan for the roads of this country. It is not dealing with the short-term position arising from petrol rationing.

As this is the first that we have heard of this new long-term plan, will the Minister inform the House whether it is intended to publish it, and if so when, and also whether the money is going to be available from the Treasury to carry it out?

I said before, but perhaps the hon. Gentleman missed it, that we are, of course, carrying out a long-term investigation into the roads of this country. That is a quite proper part of the work of my Ministry and, when they are ready, the results of the investigation will be published.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what recent developments have taken place with reference to the construction of the Severn bridge; what is the present position; and if he will make a statement on his future intentions regarding this roadway.

The present position is that I appreciate the importance of this bridge and consider it as being among the major road projects which merit high priority. I cannot as yet say when I can fit it into my programme.

Is the Minister aware that this matter is very urgent both for South Wales and the West of England, that the Severn Tunnel is seventy years old and that if there is a block it means a divergence of traffic for seventy miles? On Monday last the line was blocked for five hours and trains from London to South Wales had to be diverted through Gloucester. Will the right hon. Gentleman look at the urgency of the matter from that angle?

Yes, I will, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will bring his persuasion to bear in order to get agreement about tolls and other difficulties.

Is the Minister aware that there is to be a conference next month in Cardiff of local authorities which may form a bridge authority, and cannot more encouragement be given to those authorities?

I should be very interested to hear what they have to say when they have hat their meeting.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, in view of his decision that no new major bridge project in this country can be authorised unless it includes provision for the levying of tolls upon those using it, whether it is his intention still to devote part of the funds available for major road improvement to freeing existing toll bridges; and what particular schemes involving grants from his Department for the freeing of toll bridges on major roads have been approved at the present time by him.

At present, expenditure on the redemption of tolls on existing bridges must take a much lower priority than many other road improvements. The policy on new or re-constructed bridges is to free from tolls those in the ordinary road programme, such as Selby bridge or Conway bridge, but to impose tolls on certain major bridge or tunnel projects, such as Dartford-Purfleet tunnel or the Tyne crossing.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that tolls are a very retrograde step, in that they inevitably mean long queues of cars wasting time, money and petrol waiting for tickets?

I cannot agree at all. Toll on major bridges and their associated roadways are used all over the world, and if they make it easier for me to get on with building bridges I am only too glad to make use of them.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that tolls were very useful and commonly in use on most of the major roads in the United States, but there is now a general feeling that that policy was wrong and a movement in the opposite direction?

My understanding is that this is the result of the tolls having already paid for the bridges.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that it is the intention of the Government by this progressive policy of toll bridges to give every encouragement to the restoration of stage coaches on these roads?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the value and mileage of work of new road construction and major improvements authorised by him year by year from 1953–54 to 1956–57.

The total ultimate cost to the Exchequer of the works authorised in these years will be £90,700,000. I am circulating in the OFFICIAI. REPORT the year-by-year totals.

Can, my right hon. Friend say whether the year-by-year figures show a steady improvement in mileage and value?

Yes, Sir, they show it very considerably.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what changes in the present system of highway grants he intends to make; in which financial year they will take effect; and, so far as county councils are concerned, what will be the difference in the amount of grant to be received as compared with the year 1955–56.

My review of the present system of highway grants will be undertaken as part of the general review of local government finance. I shall discuss my proposals in due course with the local authorities concerned, and until that has been done I cannot say what changes will be made or what their effect will be.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take into account the rising cost of making and maintaining roads and the enormous contribution which the motorists make to the Treasury, and divert some more of that towards road maintenance and improvement and not so much from the local rates?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to what extent road accidents in the London area have been reduced since petrol rationing.

Casualties arising from road accidents in the Metropolitan Police Area, from the 17th December, 1956, to the 31st January, 1957, were 5,716 compared with 7,119 between the same dates in 1955–56.

While thanking the Parliamentary Secretary for that reply, may I ask him if he is aware that the Government have reduced the number of accidents by diminishing the number of private cars, and will he give an assurance that he or his right hon. Friend will not exclude the possibility, if it becomes necessary, of imposing some restriction on private cars during the rush hours, for example, in Central London, when other traffic must have priority? Is it not desirable to maintain this improvement even if it means some such restriction?

While I sympathise with the hon. Gentleman in his desire to reduce road accidents, I must tell him quite flatly that my right hon. Friend and I do not intend to introduce restriction of motor cars coming into central London. We feel that other measures which we are proposing will be more effective and, what is more important, more acceptable.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many local authorities in the London area have agreed to the proposed increase of the speed limit to 40 miles an hour.

Forty-nine local authorities in the London Traffic Area have agreed to the proposal to introduce a speed limit of 40 m.p.h. on certain roads in their areas.

Will the hon. Gentleman say how many local authorities have not supported this proposal?

I can help the hon. Member to this extent, that 67 local authorities were consulted and 49 have responded in this way.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, in view of the fact that skippers and mates of trawlers can at present be punished twice for the same offence by being prohibited from earning their livelihood as skipper or mate by a private inquiry held by the British Trawlers Re-Insurance Association and by having their respective certificates cancelled or suspended by a court of formal investigation set up under the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, if he will introduce legislation preventing insurance or reinsurance associations from using their private inquiries for this purpose.

No, Sir. The inquiries by insurance associations into casualties to fishing vessels have for many years contributed to high standards of navigation. The British Trawlers Re-Insurance Association have, however, agreed that, when an inquiry is held into a trawler casualty by a court of formal investigation under the Merchant Shipping Acts, the Association will adopt for insurance purposes the same term of suspension of an officer's certificate as that imposed by the court.

Will my hon. Friend not agree that to bring a member of the public before a private court held by any professional body or association and to deprive him of a chance of earning his livelihood is undesirable? Will my hon. Friend make that clear, and will he also make clear that the inquiries which are held by these insurance interests should not take place before the public inquiries are held by his Department?

In answer to the latter part of my hon. Friend's supplementary, I think there is considerable safeguard in the agreement of the British Trawlers Re-Insurance Association that any prohibition which it may impose will not be at variance with the suspension that a court may impose in certain serious cases. I have investigated very carefully my hon. Friend's point about this. Refusal to insure does not mean, of course, a total ban on employment except in ships insured by the Association.

Is it not a fact that insurance companies must have some safeguards when they place insurance of ships, and, therefore, should be able to investigate the competence of the master or any member of the crew?

Certainly. We could not prevent them refusing to insure.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will specify the nature and extent of the supply difficulties which are delaying and frustrating the supply to owners of Scottish fishing vessels who have ordered rubber life-rafts; what steps he is taking to resolve those difficulties; and when such rubber life-rafts will be supplied to all vessels which by the rule which came into operation on 1st October, 1956, are required to carry such life-rafts.

The shortage of life-rafts is due to the inability of one manufacturer to fulfil, as yet, all the orders he has received. I am informed that 173 Scottish fishing vessels are still unequipped. Rafts are, however, available from other sources and my surveyors, when inspecting fishing boats, are now advising owners that if their vessels are not equipped within twenty-one days they will be detained.

Does the Minister realise that this is a matter of very great importance because these rubber rafts were used and resulted in saving many lives and that if they are not forthcoming it may result in many tragedies in the future? Will the right hon. Gentleman see that the utmost expedition is used in supplying these rafts?

Yes, Sir. I am very grateful to the hon. and learned Member for raising this matter, because there is no better way of saving life at sea than by the use of these rafts.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that although at the beginning there was a difficulty in getting supplies of these rubber rafts, they are, in fact, now coming forward? I know that in one fishing port in my constituency they have been delivered.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is now in a position to announce his plans for petrol supplies for motor coaches during the coming holiday season.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will now state the fuel allocations to be made available to public service vehicle operators for the forthcoming rationing period, following 8th April, 1957, having regard to the present allocation of 50 per centum of normal usage, and the special need for such operators to be fully informed as to fuel that will be available to them for long distance coach traffic during the summer holiday period, for express services, excursions, tours, seaside visits and associated peregrinations.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if in view of the importance of motor coach traffic to the prosperity of the seaside and other holiday resorts during the coming summer, he will make an early statement of the amount of petrol which will be available for such coaches.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will make a statement as to the future of fuel rationing for goods vehicles.

My right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General will be making a general statement about fuel rationing after Questions, and I would ask my hon. Friends to await what he has to say.

Can my right hon. Friend assure me that my Question relating to holidays and seaside resorts will be included in the Answer?

Yes, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend be quite sure that the statement at the end of Questions today is comprehensive in character and has special regard to the last two words of my Question, namely, "associated peregrinations."?

I should have to ask my hon. Friend, with his lucid mind, to interpret those words for me.

Can the Minister explain why it is that during the last three or four days the Press has been announcing that this statement would be made? How did the Press know that, and how was it able to say what the statement would contain? Can the Minister say from where the leakage has come?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman had better wait to see whether the Press is right or wrong.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what representations have been made to him by the Scottish Area of the Road Haulage Association Limited, concerning the inadequacy of petrol allocations to association members; and what steps he proposes to take to alleviate the position.

After reviewing with my regional transport commissioners the working of the rationing scheme, I have recently made a further allocation to Scotland from the small headquarters reserve of derv in addition to the one I made some weeks ago.

Is the Minister quite satisfied that this will allay the anxieties of the Association and that it will not lead to increased unemployment in Scotland? Does he not agree that the original allocations were rather a mean way of treating an association which, after all, contributed substantially to the Tory Party funds?

The Road Haulage Association has expressed itself to me as being well satisfied with the way in which rationing has been conducted. If the hon. Gentleman has any particular point to make, I will examine it carefully.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what parking schemes have been received by him from local authorities in accordance with the provisions of the Road Traffic Act, 1956; and what action he has taken on them.

None, Sir. These schemes require much preparation, but, as I told the hon. Member on 13th February, I do not think local authorities will be backward in submitting schemes to me.

While I am grateful for that information, may I ask the Minister whether he does not appreciate that there are certain schemes which can be instituted without waiting for the full schemes from local authorities? Is it not desirable to carry out those parts of the recommendations of the interim report, such as those relating to increasing the number of one-way streets and free parking streets, without waiting for the full schemes which require a public hearing before these matters are begun?

I quite agree with that, and my Department is looking into it now.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation on what basis it is estimated that his departmental appropriations in aid will diminish by £370,000 during the coming financial year as a result of the abolition of driving tests.

The figure of £370,000 quoted by the hon. Member represents the expected deficiency of revenue from driving test fees in the current financial year ending on 31st March next. No further applications for normal driving tests were accepted after 13th November, 1956.

In view of the loss of revenue, does not the hon. Gentleman think that is an additional reason for getting these driving tests going as quickly as possible? Will he also consider giving a little more petrol to driving schools to enable them to teach people?

The second part of the hon. Member's supplementary question is, of course, a fresh question. If he cares to put in on the Order Paper, I shall be pleased to look at it. Regarding the first part, my right hon. Friend has already announced that we hope to restart driving tests on a limited scale in April, and we are making every effort to get them going as quickly as possible.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) if he will now arrange for driving tests to be resumed, and for driving examiners to be released from administering the fuel rationing scheme;

As I said in reply to Questions on 23rd January, I hope to resume driving tests on a limited scale in the latter part of April. The need for any emergency scheme does not therefore arise.

Is the Minister aware that it does arise? Is it not his desire, in the interest of public safety, to limit the number of casualties and see that the people who are driving have passed a test? Is he not aware that the Motor Schools Association has offered its skilled instructors, who are now not busy, as teachers to conduct emergency tests, and why does not the Minister avail himself of that offer?

The hon. Gentleman is not quite up-to-date with his information. I have met the Motor Schools Association several times over the past three months, when we have discussed this. That emergency scheme would have been valuable only if I could not restart driving tests by using my own examiners. I have said that I hope to do that.

In view of the large numbers of drivers waiting for tests, will the Minister consider increasing the number of examiners? Otherwise, the backlog will take a long time to dispose of.

The number of examiners is at full strength for the first time for many years, and my Department will discuss with their appropriate trade union any way in which it is possible to speed up the tests.

When the tests are resumed, will the Minister ensure that priority is given to those who were on the waiting list when they were suspended?

I have already said that we cannot have a special priority scheme, as it would be unfair to a large number of people. But we shall deal with the people as quickly as we can.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what efforts have been made to stimulate traffic on the canals in order to alleviate the fuel position at the moment; and how far these efforts have met with success.

Although the fuel shortage has reduced some normal traffics, there have been many useful transfers of traffic to the canals and, in some areas, the increase has been about 10 per cent. I hope that the spare capacity which carriers still have will be increasingly used.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that quite satisfactory answer. Does it not show what can be done on the canals when a real effort is made? Does it not show, further, that even greater success could be achieved were an independent authority in competition with the British Transport Commission?

I am glad to have satisfied my hon. Friend at least in part. As to the long-term aspect, we must await the findings of the Bowes Committee.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that our fuel difficulties arise because hon. Gentlemen opposite wanted to put a block on a certain canal?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will give an estimate as to what savings of fuel per week are being made by London Transport omnibuses as a whole now, resulting from reduced traffic, as compared with the period before fuel rationing.

I cannot say, because the saving in fuel from better traffic conditions cannot be separated from other effects of fuel rationing, such as heavier passenger loadings, concentration on peak services and reduction of off peak services.

As the London Transport must be saving fuel at the present time and must, therefore, be saving money, will my right hon. Friend encourage London Transport to set aside the money so saved towards a reduction of fares in the future rather than an increase of wages?

My answer said that it was not possible to ascertain that fact.

Has the Minister overlooked the fact that there has been—and will he inform his hon. Friend that there has been—an increase in the price of petrol and also a shilling increase in the tax?

Will my right hon. Friend be very careful that he does not break the golden rule set by all nationalised industries, which is to give the public worse service at increased cost?

I will be very careful, anyway.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will allow Hunting Clan airline to substitute new Viscount aircraft, which they have bought and which are costing £200 a week each while grounded at London Airport, for outmoded Vikings on their African air routes.

These routes are operated as "Colonial Coach Services", which were designed to create a new class of cheap travel appropriate for older-type aircraft and reserved to the independent operators. I am reviewing the basis of these services to ensure that the operators continue to have opportunities for development appropriate to present day changing conditions. To assist me I have asked the Air Transport Advisory Council for its advice as a matter of urgency.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his recognition of the urgency of this problem in that he has referred it to the A.T.A.C. Would he also consider giving the A.T.A.C. some lead in this matter? Would he not, for instance, indicate that B.O.A.C. and foreign airlines use the same planes for first-class and third-class services? If it is good enough for nationalised undertakings, is it not good enough for independent airlines as well?

That is not quite the whole matter. The companies concerned knew very well what were the regulations, and, indeed, I think I have done them a good turn, because as yet this company has made no application to the A.T.A.C. and I have done it for the company.

Does not the position disclosed by hon. Gentlemen opposite support the criticism made from this side of the House at the time that the so-called three-tier system was impracticable, and that if the opportunity is to be given for the one service to increase its standard equal facilities must be given to the Corporations to lower their fares if they wish to? Is the Minister aware that this is a matter of high policy which he should settle and not any other body?

This is an important matter. As I think both hon. Members know, there is a completely new fare structure likely to come into the general air routes of the world which will introduce a new high density third-class fare which will change the whole pattern of the fare structure. Therefore, it is right that the A.T.A.C., which constitutionally exists to advise me, should look into the whole matter.

In view of the fact that this is a most controversial and difficult problem, as everyone is aware, will the Minister, before putting into operation the results of his consideration or any advice he may receive, report the matter to the House, either in a statement or by a White Paper, so that we may consider what is his policy before he implements it?

I think it would be in the public interest that any view or advice given to me by the A.T.A.C. should be made public.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that Sierre Leone, which is not served by B.O.A.C. and has to rely on Air France, has long been looking forward to the introduction of these Viscounts?

Will the Minister assure the House that nothing he does in this matter will prejudice the interests of the Corporations?

I am not going into this. I have referred it to the right body, which is a wise and independent body, and which will give me advice. I have said that the advice I receive will be made public. I do not intend to make up my mind until I have received that advice.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the questions put by hon. Members opposite, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what are his arrangements with the concessionaire, Scottish Aviation Limited, in respect of the hotel at Prestwick; and what profits he received last year.

The concession held by Scottish Aviation, Ltd., in respect of hotel and catering services at Prestwick airport provides for payment to my Department of a percentage of the gross turnover, together with an annual sum representing the cost of services provided by the Department. It would be contrary to established practice to disclose the amounts of these payments.

In view of the fact that the whole of the finances of Prestwick Airport have been recently examined, that a loss of £8,000 is shown and that every year, as a result of the airport, visitors are being brought to this hotel at the rate of 210,000 a year, is the right hon. Gentleman quite satisfied that he is getting sufficient revenue from this?

I shall have to look into that. I am always willing to make more money if I can.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what runway extension is proposed for Prestwick Airport in order to make it available for use by aircraft like the Boeing 707 and the Douglas DC-8.

I cannot yet add anything to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for East Aberdeenshire (Sir R. Boothby) on 24th October, 1956.

Does the Minister remember that about three weeks ago he said that at least we were getting a new control tower at Prestwick? On the instalment plan, I thought he might now give the extended runway. Does he not realise that Prestwick Airport, unless there is an extension of the third runway, will not be capable of use by these large new modern aircraft? Will he go into this matter and let us know exactly what is the position in regard to the runway extension at Prestwick?

I can tell the hon. Gentleman now. There is a small extension being made.

I understand that.

But the big extension really must wait as it has to wait in all other international airports, until we know more about the runway performance of these new jet aircraft.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many proposals are now before him for improving the East of Scotland air services; how many of these cater for an additional port of call; and what aerodromes his Department is prepared to provide.

I understand that British European Airways are proposing to improve the frequency and convenience of some of their existing East Scottish services this summer, but my right hon. Friend has received no proposal involving any additional port of call in that area; the third part of the Question does not therefore arise.

May I thank my hon. Friend for his encouraging reply to the first part of the Question? Will he not take steps to have an extra port of call made available between Edinburgh and Aberdeen, because it is very much needed?

If any proposal by an operator does include a new port of call that point, of course, will certainly be considered by my right hon. Friend.

Can my hon. Friend say whether these proposals include the use of Viscount aircraft, and, if so, when will they come into operation as far north as Aberdeen?

I am afraid that we have not received the proposals yet, and therefore I do not know what type of aircraft is involved.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that B.E.A. have already announced that the latest Viscount 800 will be in service on these routes?

I do not think that is so. We have not had a specific proposal for this particular service on the East Scottish routes.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he proposes to permit the decision with regard to the purchase of the new jet aircraft for British Overseas Airways Corporation, which the Corporation are now discussing with a number of British constructors, to be made by the Corporation alone on the basis of their own commercial judgment.

As in the past, a decision will be reached by consultation between the various interests involved, namely B.O.A.C., the manufacturer and the Government Departments concerned.

Since the Minister has admitted that he made a mistake at the end of last year in trying to apply pressure upon the Corporation to buy a particular aircraft, will he now give a quite definite assurance that the purchase of these new jet aircraft both by B.O.A.C. and B.E.A. will be made on the merits of the design specifications and the proven record of the manufacturers concerned to deliver up to those specifications and not in accordance with any Ministry of Supply idea to feed orders to manufacturers who are short of work?

No, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman really knows that it was quite right to investigate the possibility of multi-purpose jet aircraft. It was quite right to do that before looking into the further possibilities of turboprop and jet aircraft, and that is what has been done.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps he has taken within the past two years to encourage club and private flying; and when he expects to be able to reach a decision about the provision of a suitable aerodrome near London for this category of flying.

As the answer to the first part of the Question is rather long and detailed, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT. As regards the second part of the Question, it is unlikely that a decision can be reached for some months.

If the Minister accepts the argument which was put last week that, with the decrease in the opportunity of Service flying, it is essential to develop the possibilities of private civil flying, will he see that this matter is treated as one of urgency?

My right hon. Friend does accept that argument. I think he told the hon. Gentleman last week that he was in touch with the Secretary of State for Air about the matter. I hope there will be the least possible delay.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what action he has taken, or proposes to take, to so tighten the appropriate regulations as to prevent non-qualified flying instructors giving dual-flying instruction to ab initio pilots.

The present regulation on flying instruction prohibits unqualified instructors from giving ab initio flying instruction for payment and from supervising pupils flying solo. The question of extending this provision to include all ab initio flying instruction is under consideration as part of a general revision of the air navigation regulations which my right hon. Friend is undertaking.

If the Joint Parliamentary Secretary looks at this matter again he will find that the regulation does not prevent unqualified instructors from giving some instruction to an ab initio pilot. As details have been sent to his Ministry of breaches of this regulation, at any rate in the spirit if not in the letter, will he see whether something can be done about them?

The regulations are in course of redrafting, with the object that there shall be a requirement for an instructor's rating to be held for all instruction taken for the purpose of obtaining a private pilot's licence at all stages. My right hon. Friend will consider that point in the redrafting of the regulations.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will give a general direction to the British Transport Commission to give special consideration, when placing contracts in connection with the modernisation programme of British Railways, to the needs of localities where there is present unemployment and unused production capacity.

No, Sir. The British Transport Commission must have regard to the experience of the suppliers and to the need to secure timely deliveries. Other things being equal, however, the Commission is always ready to consider placing orders in Development Areas or other places where unemployment presents a persistent problem and where suitable manufacturing facilities exist.

Will the Minister see that the Government do something to give a little validity to their statement that they are prepared to help where unemployment has resulted because of their policy? Is the Minister aware that in Coventry we have several firms capable of building diesel engines and railway carriages? Is he aware that the Daimler Company are about to quit a Government-owned factory owing to lack of orders, and that these premises would be suitable to be used in connection with the building of such engines and carriages? Does the right hon. Gentleman know that the Armstrong-Whitworth Aircraft Company will shortly have 600 workers turned off and that these people could do the work, and that sheds are available at Baginton? Will the Minister look at this matter again?

I will examine carefully what the hon. Lady has said, but my answer, which I gave with care, remains; that the Commission must have regard to the experience of suppliers and to the need to secure timely deliveries.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he will make a statement about the contribution to be made by the German Federal Government towards the cost of British Forces in Germany.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave last week to the hon. Member for Jarrow (Mr. Fernyhough).

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the House will be shortly asked to give a vote on account and to pass Vote A of the Army Estimates? Does he not realise that it is impossible for us to give intelligent consideration to these two matters unless we know the shape, size and cost of our forces in Germany?

Negotiations with the German Government on this subject are not yet complete.

The right hon. Gentleman ought not to ask the House to consider Vote A and the vote on account until we have some information on these subjects.

I hope that the negotiations will be concluded before then, although I cannot say for certain.

Are these negotiations held up as the result of the discussions now going on to reduce the size of British forces in Germany?

I do not think so.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he will publish a White Paper giving the movements of British naval ships, Royal Air Force aircraft, and troops from the United Kingdom to Malta and Cyprus during the periods 16th–25th October, 1956, 26th–30th October, 1956, and the movement from Malta and Cyprus to Port Said from 30th October, 1956, onwards, and the movement of French troops and military aircraft to Cyprus prior to 16th October, 1956, from 16th–30th October, 1956, and the movement of French military aircraft from Cyprus to Israel, up to and including 15th October, 1956, from 16th–25th October, 1956, and from 26th October, 1956, onwards.

No, Sir.

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the reason why he says "No" is fully understood on this side of the House. Would he not, in order to clear the good name of this country, and if he will not publish a White Paper, publish the information in the OFFICIAL REPORT?

I do not see the difference between publication in a White Paper and in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In view of the fact that the information asked for by my hon. Friend would be of great importance in the preparation of the history of events in the Mediterranean between July and December last year and to enable the nation to form a judgment on those events, on what grounds of security or public interest does the Minister propose not to give this information?

I am inclined to think that those events have not yet passed into the realm of history.

On a point of order.

rose—

What was the hon. Gentleman's point of order? If there is no point of order I will call the next Question.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—[Interruption.]

Is there a point of order?

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the right hon. Gentleman's reply—[Interruption.]

That is not a point of order.

The hon. Gentleman is giving notice that he will raise the matter on the Adjournment, is he not?

With respect, Mr. Speaker, may I be allowed to make by own submission to you? In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the—[Interruption.]

Order. The House should listen to the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg). He may have a point.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the right hon. Gentleman's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall not only raise this matter on the Adjournment but shall seek every opportunity on Supply to prevent the Government from getting Vote A on any of these Services until I get a more satisfactory reply.

asked the Minister of Defence which members of the Air Council were present at his discussions in Washington on the supply of guided missiles; and whether he will make a statement.

None, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if he has negotiated without being advised by the Service which will use these missiles he will run the danger of being rebuked by the Select Committee on Estimates as he was when he was at the Ministry of Supply? Will he look at this point? After all, these men will have to operate the missiles.

Among those who attended the meetings were Aix Marshal Selway, Head of the Air Force Mission in Washington, and Dr. Cockburn, Controller of Guided Weapons and Electronics at the Ministry of Supply.

But is it not a fact that the Air Council has the responsibility of organising the Service which will use these missiles?

As I explained in my earlier statement, the proposals which were made during the course of these discussions are now being considered by the two Governments. In the course of the review of these proposals by Her Majesty's Government, the Air Council is playing a major part.

asked the Minister of Defence when he expects to be able to announce the nature of the agreement concluded with the United States Government for the supply of missiles for British forces.

I cannot at present add to my statement of 6th February.

Then something else will be in the White Paper. Is not the right hon. Gentleman prepared to say that this at least will be in the White Paper?

There are no limits to what may be in the White Paper.

These cuts are beyond that kind of answer. This is something that will affect our ability to defend ourselves and the nature of the forces we are to pay for. Has the Minister made any agreement; or has he, in fact, come back empty-handed on this subject?

I am hopeful that some statement may be made before the publication of the White Paper.

asked the Minister of Defence, in view of increasing reliance on nuclear fission weapons for the purpose of offence and retaliation in the eventuality of war, what further revision of civil defence is being undertaken; and what directives or advice he has caused to be conveyed to the Civil Defence organisation arising from his defence plans.

I hope to deal with these matters in the forthcoming White Paper on Defence.

Will all the points which I put in my Question be dealt with by the Minister?

The White Paper is not yet written. I have expressed hopes that they may be dealt with.

asked the Minister of Defence to what extent a five-day week is worked at operational units in the Armed Services.

The state of operational readiness varies with the nature of the unit, its location and the current international situation.

While that may well be true, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the disclosure made by the Secretary of State for Air that, despite the enormous expenditure on Fighter Command, operational fighter stations work only a five-day week?

I think that the hon. hon. Gentleman misunderstood my right hon. Friend's statement.

If I misunderstood him my misunderstanding was shared by many hon. Members.

I have no doubt that even more understood him correctly.

Will my right hon. Friend give warning to all possible enemies of this country that it would be a cad's trick to attack us at weekends when we are neither prepared to work nor to fight?

asked the Minister of Defence if he will make a statement about the proposals for the reduction of the British forces on the Continent which have been presented to the Council of Western European Union.

asked the Minister of Defence to what extent he intends to reduce the British forces in Germany.

A statement will be made shortly.

Will my right hon. Friend make sure that this statement is made to the House rather than to the Press?

That would be the proper and normal place to make it.

asked the Minister of Defence whether, in view of the Reports by the Select Committee on Estimates and the Public Accounts Committee disclosing excessive purchase of stores and equipment for military purposes and consequent waste, he will take disciplinary action against the officials responsible.

While accepting the general conclusions of the Select Committee, I am not satisfied that disciplinary action would be justified.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman agree that a very shocking state of affairs has been disclosed in these two Reports? Surely, if any person employed in a private undertaking were responsible for such acts he would be dealt with—why should these people escape?

I am not prepared in a general way to say that disciplinary action is justified, but my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War has already answered questions on this subject and made it quite clear that he is not satisfied with the position and is looking into the matter with a view to seeing what action is required.

Who bought the blanco?

asked the Minister of Defence (1) if he will state the nature of his reply to the letter from the Trades Union Congress asking him to save men and money by employing civilians in place of soldiers and airmen wherever possible and asking why, despite the advice of investigating committees in favour of civilian labour, substantial changes have not yet been made;

I would refer the hon. Member to the answers given by me on 6th February and by the Secretary of State for War on 12th February.

Will the Minister tell the House why there has been a delay of 3½ years since the recommendations were first put to the Government by the T.U.C.? Would they not save 40,000 men? Is the Minister aware that in the past few days the Admiralty has acted in the opposite direction by turning over to naval ratings the sending of telegrams previously done by civilians, mainly girls, in shore establishments?

I will study the hon. Member's question.

asked the Minister of Defence if he will make a statement about the recent discussions with the French Defence Minister, M. Maurice Bourges-Maunoury.

At our meeting here on 14th February the French Minister of Defence put forward certain proposals for closer collaboration on defence between Britain and France within the framework of the Western European Union, with particular reference to research and production. These proposals are now being examined, with a view to a further meeting between us in due course.

Does the Minister accept the statement made by the French Minister when he returned that France is ahead of Britain in tanks, anti-tank missiles, support aircraft and electrical equipment, and asks nothing better than to help her British allies in these matters? Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that as a fair statement of the position discovered at these talks?

I do not think that it would contribute to closer Anglo-French understanding for me to comment on that statement.

In the recent discussions with the French Defence Minister, did the right hon. Gentleman ascertain the views of the French Defence Minister on the appointment of General Speidel, which is now the subject of very acute controversy in the French Chamber?

The subject was not mentioned.