asked the Minister of Supply what is his estimate of the cost of a hydrogen bomb.

It would not be in the public interest to give such an estimate.

Is the Minister aware of the strong criticisms of the right hon. Member for Woodford (Sir W. Churchill) because the Labour Government spent £100 million without telling the House of Commons, and is the right hon. Gentleman following this regrettable precedent? Could he not tell us how many Premium Bonds the Postmaster-General would have to sell in order to pay for a bomb?

I am very ready to be as forthcoming as possible in these matters, but I am afraid that this is an instance where it would be in conflict with the public interest to give a figure.

asked the Minister of Supply the cost of the most expensive type of guided missile.

The most expensive type of guided missile at present envisaged is the ballistic missile. Depending on its range, this type of missile is expected to cost £150,000 or so in production.

Can the Minister tell us why he can give the figures for a guided missile and cannot give the figures for a hydrogen bomb?

As I said to the hon. Gentleman, I am only too anxious to be as forthcoming as possible. A ballistic missile does not differ essentially in structure from country to country, but a hydrogen bomb does, and to give a figure for the hydrogen bomb would be to give another country a very good idea of what went into the making of it.

Having told us what the production cost is, can the right hon. Gentleman tell us what it has cost the country to develop the ballistic missile?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration he gave to the conversion of parts of the Royal Ordnance factory at Radway Green to civil production before deciding to make more workers redundant; and if he will reconsider the position.

asked the Minister of Supply what type of goods have been manufactured in past years for the civilian market at Radway Green Royal Ordnance factory; and what steps are now being taken to manufacture such articles again.

As I informed the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Swingler) on 27th May, there is little or no present scope for introducing civil work into this factory. After the last war, the factory was mainly engaged on the production of gas and electric cookers when there was a shortage of such goods. The present plant is not suitable for this type of work.

Is the Minister aware that that information is in flat contradiction to what the workers at the factory say and what has been represented to Members of Parliament in North Staffordshire by the trade unions there? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in their opinion and experience, coal mining machinery can be manufactured there, sparking plugs have been manufactured there and that it would be well equipped to supply equipment for the railways and also for the atomic energy programme? Will not the Minister look again into the potentialities of the factory?

The fact remains that this is rather a unique factory with very specialised equipment. Its current rate of operation on defence orders is, in fact, a high one, and far higher than that when the civil work was being done. It would be quite impossible to rip out machinery and introduce an infinitesimal amount of civil work at this juncture.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there has been a vast amount of capital expenditure in this factory and that it is capable, if the orders are forthcoming, of manufacturing very many products, including machine tools? Will not the right hon. Gentleman give the matter further consideration rather than let the factory become derelict?

No one is allowing this factory to become derelict. A great deal of capital equipment has gone into the factory, but the suggestion that I should put in civil work means tearing out this valuable equipment, and that is what I am saying is undesirable.

Would the right hon. Gentleman tell us what is the policy of the Government for the Royal Ordnance factories? Does not he agree that at one period a very high percentage of civil work was being done in the Royal Ordnance factories? Is it not the case that the Government have completely set their minds against them, despite the fact that they pay hundreds of millions of pounds on dollar imports, such as agricultural machinery, and so on?

A very long and important answer upon this matter was given to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ellis Smith), I believe last March. No, Sir. Civil work is not excluded, but I would ask hon. Members to bear in mind the fact that the post-war circumstances differ considerably from the present ones. In the post-war period there was a great shortage of capacity for producing goods. That is no longer the case.

Will my right hon. Friend tell the House the result of any discussions he has had with the Minister of Labour regarding the employment of redundant men from this factory? Will he also consider publishing a White Paper giving the House and the country details of the future of Royal Ordnance factories, and what they have done?

With regard to the first part of that supplementary question, it is the practice for me to inform my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour of any contraction in orders and of likely redundancies arising. The placing of the displaced workers is then a matter for my right hon. Friend. The second part of the supplementary question anticipates a further Question on the Order Paper, but I will certainly bear that suggestion sympathetically in mind.

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration he gave to the prospects of alternative employment in North Staffordshire before deciding to make more workers redundant at the Royal Ordnance factory at Radway Green.

It is my intention that all fresh orders this year for small arms ammunition shall be executed at Radway Green, but the requirement has been so reduced that redundancy could not be avoided.

That does not answer the Question. I asked the Minister what consideration was given to the prospects of alternative employment. Is the Minister not aware—or is it a fact that he did not consult the Minister of Labour—that at the moment there are about 3,350 unemployed in North Staffordshire, which is more than 2 per cent. of the working population, and well above the national average? Did he not take this fact into account in deciding to sack another 1,000 workers for whom there are no alternative jobs?

I answered the hon. Member's Question by implication, if not explicitly. The number of works engaged on this type of work is extremely limited: there are no other Royal Ordnance factories. There are one or two private factories. My Answer made it quite clear that the orders to private factories were reduced before any redundancies were declared at Radway Green.

asked the Minister of Health (1) if he will now amend the National Health Service Act, 1946, so as.to allow those who elect to become private patients to utilise the other facilities provided by the Act;

(2) if he will so amend the National Health Service Act, 1946, as to allow the provision to all private patients free of charge, other than the prescription charge, of a selected list of preventive and life saving drugs and drugs designed for the alleviation and treatment of lethal diseases.

The private patients of general practitioners have full access to all the facilities of the National Health Service, other than the supply of drugs as part of general medical services. The provision of a selected list of drugs for private patients would raise many problems of great difficulty.

Is it not a fact that all insured persons pay for the National Health Service through their contributions, rates and taxes? Therefore, should not they be entitled to the benefits for which they have paid, even though they may opt to be private patients and pay for their doctors out of their own pockets?

As I told my hon. Friend, this matter raises many problems of great difficulty, one being that it would require legislation. In addition, there would have to be some form of control of doctors who are not at present in the National Health Service. My predecessor invited the British Medical Association to discuss this matter with the Department, and those discussions are about to take place.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider the fact that if an amendment of this kind were introduced it would create a specially privileged category of National Health Service patient, and, furthermore, would tend to encourage over-prescribing?

I am not prepared to accept either of the right hon. Lady's allegations. I realise that there are many difficulties, but the matter is to be discussed with the British Medical Association, which has some proposals to make.

May I ask my right hon. Friend not to be diverted from his purpose by the right hon. Lady opposite? Will he look into the matter again and assure himself that these difficulties are real and not just imaginary bureaucratic difficulties? Why should not a person who pays a full contribution to the National Health Service be allowed just a part of the benefit? Surely it is in the national interest to allow him to do this, instead of forcing him to take the whole or none?

The difficulties are very real. As I said, discussions are about to take place. I promise that I will examine my hon. Friend's suggestion.

Is the right non Gentleman aware that there is a great amount of feeling in the country that people who pay for their treatment arc privileged and get quicker treatment in hospitals than do National Health Service patients? Will he make certain that there is no increase in this sort of procedure?

That is another question, which hardly arises from this one.

When considering this problem, will my right hon. Friend take into account the fact that with the higher charges more money will be paid by people for the National Health Service? That fact should be taken into consideration when considering the problem.

I will do that.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the work conducted by the World Health Organisation towards the eradication of leprosy, particularly by the use of sulphone drugs; and to what extent the cost of treatment is a limiting factor.

The Organisation's Programme and Regular Budgets for 1957 and 1958 provide for assistance to leprosy control in several countries. The Organisation will also take part in the Seventh International Conference on Leprology at New Delhi in 1958. The Director-General has recently reported on improved prospects for control with the use of sulphone drugs, but has pointed out that many technical problems remain. The money available to the Organisation and its general activities are determined by member countries at the World Health Assembly.

Can the Minister state what are the technical limitations? Is it fair to say that, in the main, we are not yet able to take the treatment to the patient in all cases, but that it is easy for the patient to go to the centre for treatment? If that is the case, is not there any method by which a number of countries could be encouraged to find greater financial aid, so that the World Health Organisation could extend its activities?

I do not want to get too involved in the technicalities of the matter, but I know that eradication is not yet regarded as practicable. The actual problems to which the Director-General referred concerned such questions as optimum drug preparation and dosage schedules, diagnostic techniques, criteria of infectivity, and so forth. If the hon. Member has any other particulars upon which he wants information, I will obtain it.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there is a very urgent need for more finance for this work? I saw some of it in the East a short while ago. As long as we refuse to contribute to other world health funds, a great deal of the resources of the World Health Organisation has to be channelled into these other purposes, which could very well be more concentrated upon leprosy work.

We should bear in mind the fact that the United Kingdom is one of the largest contributors to these international bodies.

asked the Minister of Health what would be the approximate cost of suplhone drugs required for the treatment of a case of leprosy for a period of two years.

The basic cost of the drugs will depend on the method of administration. If given in tablet form, which is the usual method in this country, it would be about 12s. If given by injection the cost would be at least 50 per cent. more.

That means that for a few shillings we can cure cases of leprosy if we can get the patients at the centres. Is not that a most helpful thing, and should not Her Majesty's Government do what they always have done in the past, set an example to the other member countries and find as much finance as is possible so that everyone is able to get treatment?

We must look at this matter in proportion. There are other diseases with which the World Health Organisation has to deal, and I think we should leave it to the Organisation to work out the priorities.

asked the Minister of Health if he will arrange for the statement of salary and deductions from pay for those employed in the National Health Service to be simplified and given on a form which can be filed.

I am not sure what the hon. Member has in mind, but this would appear to be a matter for the employing authorities.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that accompanying each payment of salary there is a very complicated statement made out on a strip of paper which measures five-eighths of an inch in width and nearly two feet in length? As this cannot be filed satisfactorily, and as it is apt to become twisted, tangled and torn, would the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to look into this matter to see whether he can arrange for the statement to be made on a more usual type of form, instead of this ridiculous slip of paper?

This form of statement has a familiar ring to me. I will look at the matter. I was not certain whether the hon. Member had in mind the practice of any particular regional board or executive council, or the general principle, which is, of course, a matter for the Whitley Council.

Can the right. hon. Gentleman also say why this strip of paper is of almost rice paper texture?

I imagine that is a matter of economy, but I will examine it.

asked the Minister of Health in what circumstances a foreign visitor was recently supplied with contact lenses at Moorfields Eye Hospital for a charge of £1.

The lenses were supplied to this patient because she suffers from a very high degree of myopic astigmatism and is nearly blind even with ordinary spectacles. She was admitted to this country in September, 1956, on a twelve months' Ministry of Labour permit, and at the time the lenses were ordered was at work here. The charge of £1 is in accordance with the standard charge for lenses laid down in the National Health Service Act of 1951.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will take steps to create a rota of dentists in Dagenham to provide emergency treatment.

Executive councils have already been asked to consult local dental committees about local arrangements for providing emergency dental treatment and the institution of rotas has been commended to them.

asked the Minister of Health to what causes he ascribes the rise of about 6d. in the cost of individual prescriptions under the National Health Service since the Is. charge was levied on each prescription.

Examination of a sample of the prescriptions dispensed in December, 1956, showed that the increase of about 5d. was probably almost entirely due to the ordering of larger quantities.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in order to detract from the Government's handling of this problem and at the same time to attack the pharmaceutical industry, it has been suggested that the main reason is an increased use of proprietary medicines? Am I to assume from my right hon. Friend's reply that that is not true?

There was no increase in the proportion of proprietaries for December, 1956, the first month of the new charge.

Is the Minister aware that what has happened is precisely what was said would happen by hon. Members on this side of the House during the debate on the subject, that if this increase was made the doctors would inevitably over-prescribe in order to help the poorest patient?

In fact, my right hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton), when he was Minister, said that one of the ways to avoid hardship would be to prescribe larger quantities for those who suffered from chronic illness. That is what has happened, and I believe that is why the cases of hardship are few in number.

asked the Minister of Health if he has now reviewed the effects of increased prescription charges; and what information he has in respect of the decrease in the number of prescriptions and their cost in respect of retirement pensioners and of other patients.

Examination of a sample of prescriptions dispensed in December has shown that the increase in average cost of about 5d. was probably due almost entirely to doctors prescribing larger quantities. The trend of costs since December suggests that this has continued. The number of prescriptions has also been much lower than a year ago, but this must be due partly to the low incidence of sickness. I regret that I have no separate information relating to prescriptions for retirement pensioners.

Could the Minister indicate to what extent the anticipation of these increases has been fulfilled financially.?

So far as I can gather at present, the anticipated saving and the actual saving will be about the same.

Does not the Minister recognise the very real danger of waste involved in prescribing larger quantities, which he himself is encouraging?

I cannot accept that, which suggests that the general practitioner is not competent to exercise discretion. The ordering of larger quantities is not wasteful if there is a continuing need. It does help people with chronic or continuing illness. That, I believe, is what is happening at the moment.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say it is an overstatement to say that most people have in their bathroom cupboards unused tablets, lotions and ointments which have cost the country a great amount of money?

I have seen allegations to that effect, but I have no evidence that it is true.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will consider asking the Central Health Services Council to review the subject of co-operation between hospital, local authority and general practitioner services on which they reported to him in 1952 in the light of subsequent developments.

A number of committees have studied the subject since 1952, notably the Guillebaud Committee, which reported last year. Although I have this subject very much in mind, I am reluctant to ask the Central Health Services Council to make yet another review.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied at this stage that co-operation between these various bodies gives the best service conceivable to the public? If not, would he consider putting in force, or perhaps starting in one region to try them out, some of the ideas that have been suggested?

I am by no means satisfied that we have reached the highest degree of co-operation possible. I think it is more a matter of the attitude of mind of those concerned than a need for new machinery, but I will look at the point mentioned by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement of his policy in regard to the implementation of the recommendations of the Report of the Royal Commission on the Laws Relating to Mental Illness and Mental Deficiency.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the Report of the Royal Commission on the Law Relating to Mental Illness and Mental Deficiency.

I welcome this valuable and comprehensive Report, and I am at present studying the many recommendations made in it. I must have time to consider them before making any further statement. But I am glad to have this opportunity of expressing the Government's gratitude to the Chairman and members of the Royal Commission for undertaking this important inquiry.

Will my right hon. Friend first accept the assurance of all those interested in reform of the law of support for any steps he may take in implementing these recommendations? Will he, in particular, take some action, prior to legislation—which we realise must take time—on those recommendations which do not require legislation, particularly the review of patients at present in hospital?

I am very pleased to note the first point made by my hon. Friend. Most certainly I shall consider what can be done by administrative means in advance of any legislation.

First, may I also assure the right hon. Gentleman of the welcome from this side of the House for this Report? Secondly, may I ask him to use his best endeavours to get a day set aside for a debate on it as early as possible after the Whitsun Recess?

That does not rest with me, but I personally should welcome a debate on this Report.

Will the Minister accept from me on behalf of the Commission our thanks for the very kind words he has spoken today about the work it has done? Will he consult the Leader of the House on the lines suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, East (Mr. Blenkinsop) about having a debate? Is he aware that the country is very concerned about the position? There seems to be a great deal of agreement on both sides of the House about the Report, and a full debate as soon after the Recess as possible would be very much appreciated.

I wish to thank the hon. Member for her contribution to this Report, and also to thank her for her remarks. I will consult my right hon. Friend, and I have also noted the Motion on the Order Paper.

Will the right hon. Gentleman agree that, as a result of the recommendations of the Royal Commission, the present procedures will now give rise to increased anxieties and frustrations on the part of parents, psychiatrists and patients? Is not that an added reason for early action on the recommendations?

That is certainly true, but the hon. Member will realise that any legislation will be of a very complicated and prolonged nature and must receive adequate consideration before it is introduced.

asked the Minister of Health what advice he has received from the Standing Medical Advisory Committee of the Central Health Services Council regarding the relationship between smoking and lung cancer during 1956; and what action he proposes to take upon it.

I would refer the hon. Member to paragraph 13 of the Report of the Council for 1956 and to the penultimate paragraph of my statement published with it.

Do not all these statements point to the need for something definite to be done? Is it not clear that the public want a statement from the Minister telling them, as far as our present knowledge goes, exactly how they stand in relation to this very important question?

I did say in answer to a Question last week that the Report of the Medical Research Council would be available within a very few weeks. I would ask the hon. Member to await that Report.

Could we have an assurance that, after having ignored the recommendations or the advice of the Standing Medical Advisory Committee and the Central Health Services Council, the Minister will not now ignore the advice of the Medical Research Council, which is going to confirm everything said by bodies which previously considered the subject?

I have certainly not ignored the advice given me by my own Council. What my predecessor and I have done has been to bring it to the notice of this House and of the public, and I have already asked the hon. Member not to anticipate what may be in the Report of the Medical Research Council.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that, of recent years, a much greater use has been made of the one-doctor process of certification than of the two-doctor process for which the law also provides; and whether, pending the introduction of amending legislation, he will use the resources of his Department to give publicity to the existence of the two-doctor process of certification.

Two medical certificates are required in all cases of certification of mental defectives. In cases of mental illness, relatives or friends of the patient can initiate the procedure involving two medical certificates, and the one certificate procedure can be used only where the duly authorised officer is satisfied that there are no relatives or friends able and willing to initiate action or that the patient is not under proper care and control. The question of further publicity is one which I will take into account when considering the Royal Commission's proposals.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that every week now 400 people are certified under the one-doctor procedure and the doctor does not need to have any special knowledge of mental illness? As the relatives do not know about these things until long after the deed has been done, can he not see the dangers of this system, which the Royal Commission indicated?

The hon. Member said that the relatives do not know, but it may he that they would prefer to use the one-certificate procedure. In any case, the medical superintendent also examines the patient. In considering whether any action should be taken on the administrative side of the proposals made by the Royal Commission, I will look at this point.

asked the Minister of Health what action he is taking to maintain and make public a fuller statistical return of the work of the National Health Service.

The Statistical Branch of my Department has been increased and is carrying out an extensive review and re-organisation of records and returns with a view to providing a speedier and fuller service.

Whilst welcoming that statement from the Minister, may I ask if it would not be helpful if at some appropriate time he were to lay a White Paper or by other means inform the House of what future use he hopes to make of this statistical information available to him?

I do not know about publishing a White Paper, but I will consider making some information available. At the moment, the statistical branch has mainly been concerned with internal work, and I have nothing much to put before the House at this stage.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind how very useful it would be, not only to us but to the rest of the world, if we were to have figures available, industry by industry, of a certain number of breakdowns in health?

I will note that suggestion.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the Report of the Central Health Services Committee that some infants are receiving unnecessarily large quantities of vitamin D, he will state how far he is satisfied that all children up to the age of five years in this country still need adequate supplements of this vitamin to prevent rickets and promote healthy bone and teeth formation, and that National cod liver oil is one of the ideal sources of this vitamin and the vitamin A which is also required.

My right hon. Friend is satisfied that children up to five years of age need an adequate source of vitamin D and that national cod liver oil is one of the best sources of this vitamin and of vitamin A.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree, in the light of this Report, that National cod liver oil continues to be particularly valuable in that it provides these two vitamins in the correct proportion and, furthermore, enables the dosage to be correctly and easily regulated?

My right hon. Friend is now studying the Report of the Joint Sub-Committee on Welfare Foods. On the major issue, I welcome this opportunity of drawing attention to the value of cod liver oil, particularly in view of the low uptake.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent reciprocal arrangements are in operation in the Channel Islands for free medical treatment for United Kingdom residents or visitors.

A free general practitioner service is available to visitors from Great Britain to Guernsey (including Alderney), which includes medical services, drugs and appliances but not dental or (except in emergency) ophthalmic treatment, and also in-patient hospital treatment. In Jersey, in-patient and outpatient hospital treatment is available.

Does not my hon. Friend agree, therefore, that we are under an obligation, almost, to give free Health Service treatment, certainly medical treatment, to visitors from the Channel Islands?

Yes, that is quite correct, and we do have a reciprocal treaty. I should have added that, unfortunately, no reciprocal arrangements exist with Sark.

asked the Minister of Health for what purpose Mr. L. C. Hitchcock, of Hillingdon Heath, was required to attend at Ealing for steering tests on two vehicles when one was a petrol all-weather machine with a type of steering which previously had been agreed as unsuitable and the other was an obsolete vehicle with a type of steering which Mr. Hitchcock had managed for the past seven years.

Mr. Hitchcock now has an old electric tricycle with centre tiller steering. He has asked for either an all-weather electric machine or a petrol machine and the object of the test was to see whether he could in fact manage a petrol-driven machine either with standard controls or the special controls which he has been accustomed to use on the electric tricycle.

In view of the fact that this invalid himself said that he could not manage a machine with the old controls and in view of the fact that I wrote specifically on this point and received an assurance from the Minister that he would not be tested on the old type of controls, may I ask what was the purpose of getting him to go all the way to Ealing simply in order to test him on a machine which he knew he could not operate and on a machine which he had had for seven years and he knew very well he could operate?

There were two issues. The first was whether he should have a petrol machine or an electric-driven machine. The second was whether he should have the centre tiller steering or the other kind of tiller steering. The object of the test was to see which would suit his particular needs. We have not yet any all-weather electric machines with centre tiller steering, which is what he needs, but we hope that production will start soon.

Would my hon. Friend look into the whole question of self-propelled tricycles and vehicles? Many of these are not only old but out of date and quite unsuitable for modern-day purposes.

We are now starting to replace them.

asked the Minister of Health why Mr. L. C. Hitchcock, of Hillingdon Heath, was informed by letter that he would be able to examine and try various transit chairs if he visited the appliance centre at Ealing, but was informed, on visiting Ealing, that it would be necessary for an officer to visit Mr. Hitchcock at his place of employment in order to discuss the matter.

I understand that Mr. Hitchcock was told that our officers would discuss the question of his transit chair when he was visiting the Appliance Centre on another matter. But it was then found necessary for a technical officer to see the conditions under which it was used so that he could judge the most suitable model.

Again I ask why it was necessary for this invalid person to have to make the journey to Ealing in order to be told that? Was it not known before he made the journey?

The point is that he has two types of chair, one for use at home and one for use at work which he wants to change to a different type. It was in order to see which was the most appropriate type that the inquiry had to take place at his place of work.

asked the Minister of Health how many visits have been paid by various officers of his Department to Mr. L. C. Hitchcock, of Hillingdon Heath, both at his home and his place of employment, for the purpose of repairing his old electric tricycle; whether the machine is now considered to be in a roadworthy condition; when the old machine is to be replaced; and with what type.

I have no record of the number of visits by the Department's officers or by approved repairers. The machine was made fully roadworthy on 30th April. My right hon. Friend will consider replacing it when the new all-weather electric tricycles with centre-tiller steering become available.

In view of the fact that there has been a most extraordinary delay and a good deal of unkindness to this invalid person, and in view of the fact that he has been criticised because he has written to his Member of Parliament about his difficulties, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter at the earliest possible opportunity on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Health, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what progress has been made in the last twelve months in the training of research workers into mental illness.

During the past twelve months the Medical Research Council has awarded a number of its scholarships and fellowships, which provide training in research methods and in the basic medical sciences, to workers studying various aspects of the problem of mental illness. Post-graduate awards open to candidates wishing to study psychiatric subjects have also been provided from hospital endowment funds, and by a number of private trusts.

Does the Minister feel that the shortage of research workers in this field, which was mentioned by his predecessor as a reason why research could not proceed more rapidly, is now being overcome?

I am not satisfied that we have enough even now, but there has been an increase since this matter was last raised in this House.

asked the Minister of Health the number of patients in Rampton State Institution; how many have never been before a court and, in this respect, what are the chief reasons for their detention with those of allegedly dangerous and violent propensities who have previously been in prison or before a court; and in what way mental defectives who have committed no wrong can be given under such conditions the treatment that will enable them to return to the community as useful citizens.

The number is 1,074. Full information on how many have been before a court is not available, but 556 were not dealt with as mental defectives either by the courts or by the Secretary of State whilst being detained in prisons, approved schools, or elsewhere. They were sent to Rampton because of dangerous or violent propensities. Each patient is treated according to his individual needs, and when the medical superintendent reports that he no longer possesses these propensities the normal procedure is to transfer him to an ordinary mental deficiency hospital with a view to his subsequent return to the community.

Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that there are patients at Rampton who have not been before the court who are of violent and dangerous propensities? Does he appreciate the difficulty of putting those who have not done any wrong with criminals at Rampton? Does he not think there should be some segregation?

After all, Rampton is a hospital and all the patients there have either violent or dangerous propensities. They are treated according to that and not according to their origin. The hon. Gentleman has already asked whether he and some other hon. Members can go to Rampton. I am sure that if he does go there he will think that this is the right procedure.

To ask the Minister of Health, in view of the assurances given in the introduction of Section 35 of the Mental Deficiency Act, 1913, that only dangerous and violent criminals would be detained in the Rampton State Institution, by what authority he detains at Rampton children and young people who are there on an application by their parents for institutional care only.

As I am going to Rampton—[HON. MEMBERS: "To stay?"]—I shall not ask a supplementary question on this Question.

Regulation 89 of the Mental Deficiency Regulations, 1948, provides that the Board of Control, if satisfied that a patient detained in an institution or certified house is of dangerous or violent propensities, may by order transfer him to a State institution.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—whether he can guarantee that when I go to Rampton I shall get out again?

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made in the preliminary preparations for the erection of a new South Wales teaching hospital; and if he will make a statement.

The schedules of accommodation have been fully studied and the Welsh Board of Health sent its comments to the hospital authority and medical school on 3rd May. It is proposed to arrange an architectural competition when agreement has been reached on the detailed needs of the new hospital.

Would my right hon. Friend like to give even a rough estimate of when the plans are likely to be submitted?

I am afraid that depends in part on the result of the competition.

asked the Minister of Health how many mentally-defective children are waiting admission to residential hospital care in the area covered by the Leeds Regional Hospital Board.

The number was 162 at 31st March.

As this is quite a large number, and as each case creates a serious position in the home, can the hon. Gentleman say how much time must elapse before the necessary accommodation is available for these children?

Forty-three of these cases are classified as urgent. The number waiting has gone down from 258 at the end of 1954. About twenty-five further places are being provided.

asked the Minister of Health what was the salary scale for radiographers at the inception of the National Health Service; what increases have been granted since that date; and how the total increase compares, on a percentage basis, with the rise in the cost of living.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL. REPORT.

I thank the Minister for his answer. I wonder whether he can say what is the last figure? Is he aware that radiographers all over the country are complaining that they are inadequately rewarded, and also that any rise they have been given since the Health Service came into being has not kept pace with the rises in prices or the rises given to other professional classes? Can the right hon. Gentleman comment on that?

I dealt with this matter very fully last week. The basic salary has risen from £385 in 1950 to £485 in November, 1956. That is an increase of 35 per cent., which is slightly below the increase in the cost of living for a comparable period. I have already said that I am not satisfied with the position, and I have asked for a review.

asked the Minister of Health what is the present shortage of radiographers in North and South Wales, respectively; what is the number at present employed; and when he anticipates that the numbers now under training will meet present requirements.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that, despite the increase in salary awarded to radiographers seven months ago, there is still a shortage in the Cardiff area; and what steps he is taking to improve the position.

There is a shortage of ten whole-time radiographers, or 22 per cent., in North Wales, and twenty, or 12½ per cent., in South Wales: the shortage in the Cardiff area is five, or 11 per cent. The numbers at present employed are thirty-five in North Wales and 139 in South Wales, of whom forty are employed in the Cardiff area. As regards the latter part of both Questions, I would refer the hon. Members to the reply given to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, Central (Dr. Stross) and other hon. Members on 27th May.

asked the Minister of Health how many mentally deficient children, young persons and adults are now in appropriate institutions; how many are awaiting admission; how many applications for discharge were made and were granted during 1956; of these, how many applications for their re-admission were made by parents or guardians; and in how many instances certification and removal to institutions were made despite resistance by parents or guardians.

As the reply involves a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Health the number and percentage of mental patients in hospitals who are voluntary patients; what was the number who discharged themselves during 1956; how many certified patients absconded during that period and how many of those returned; what approximately was the number of discharged voluntary and certified patients, respectively, who were subsequently re-admitted to hospitals within the year; how many serious complaints were made in respect of treatment of detention; and how many of these were investigated and deemed justified by hospital committees.

The number of voluntary patients in hospitals on 31st December, 1956, was 43,485, a percentage of 29·9. The number who left during 1956 was 62,106. I regret that I have no record of the further information asked for.

Assuming that all this information in reply to this and a previous Question were available to the Royal Commission, to what extent does the hon. Gentleman feel it controverts or affirms the general conclusions of the Report of the Commission?

I frankly think it would be very difficult to deal adequately with that in answer to a supplementary question.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give comparable figures for hospital waiting lists for 1954, 1955 and 1956.

Altogether, 474,000 patients were on waiting lists on 31st December, 1954, and 455,000 a year later. The provisional figure for 1956 is 430,000.

While these figures are extremely gratifying, can my hon. Friend say whether they run fairly regularly over the whole field or whether there are still specialties, for example, tonsilectomy, where the improvement has not been shown?

There has been an improvement in the E.N.T. section. There has been quite a substantial fall. That is, however, still the longest waiting list—that and general surgery.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give figures showing the annual number of patients per allocated bed in hospitals, other than mental hospitals, for the years 1954, 1955 and 1956.

The figures, excluding beds at mental and mental deficiency hospitals are: 1954, 13·1; 1955, 13·2; 1956, 13·4.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster when it is proposed to issue a White Paper containing proposals in regard to the overseas information services following the review he has undertaken.

I hope it will be possible to make some announcement on this subject in the near future.

Does the Chancellor propose to publish a White Paper or simply to make an announcement? Does he not agree that it is highly desirable that a full statement should be made and should be available to the House so that we can have a debate on the facts?

It will be a full statement of the Government's conclusions in the appropriate form, White Paper or otherwise.

Would the Chancellor be good enough to tell us what happened at Chequers over the week-end?

A pleasant yet industrious week-end.

Will the White Paper contain a statement of the principles upon which we propose to conduct our overseas propaganda as well as the various organisational changes which are envisaged?

While I am unable to anticipate its content, the points made by the hon. Member are in mind.

Was not that a very poor answer which the right hon. Gentleman gave me? Were there not fun and games at Chequers? Cannot he be a little more forthcoming?

Will the right hon. Gentleman say why these economy cuts are taking place in the information services overseas, particularly at Hamburg? We have had very useful information services at Hamburg, but they have suddenly been cut and taken away from the centre of the town, with the result that the necessary information which is essential for selling our ideas overseas has been seriously curtailed. Will the White Paper cover the whole of these questions?

What has been under consideration is the re-deployment of the information services generally, but if the hon. Member wishes to obtain information on particular points perhaps he would put a Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance in how many cases local authority welfare departments have agreed with his Department for a circular from the welfare department to be included in the envelope containing the first pension issue book so as to inform those newly retired of the services available for them as has been done in the case of Salford.

Forty-one local authority welfare departments have arranged for my Department to help in various ways to make known to old people details of their welfare services.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that answer, may I ask whether he would not agree that, in view of the revelations from Sunderland and Salford, it is clear that a large number of old people do not appear to know their rights and that this form of cooperation with local authorities will be very useful?

I agree with my hon. Friend that this co-operation with local authorities is very valuable. My local offices have instruction to give help whenever they can in this way.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance when he expects the Convention on Social Security with Belgium to be ratified.

My right hon. and learned. Friend the Foreign Secretary hopes to lay the Convention before Parliament on 25th June. Subject to the readiness of the Belgian Government, Her Majesty's Government will be ready to exchange instruments of ratification after the customary twenty-one sitting days have elapsed.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what slaughterhouses are at present being operated by his Department; and what profit is being made by their use.

Only the one at Grimsby. Negotiations for the sale of this slaughterhouse are contemplated and might be prejudiced by publication at this time of the financial results of operation under Government occupation.

Can the Joint Parliamentary Secretary say what the Ministry is doing in the slaughterhouse business? I thought it got out of that years ago. Why is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary so coy about this matter? Surely, if he has made a profit he should be willing to tell us?

Whether profit or loss, it is better to leave it until these negotiations are completed. In the case of this one slaughterhouse, the local authority was not willing to operate it until the negotiations for sale had taken place.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what instructions he gives to the Forestry Commission so that their replanting shall not interfere with the preservation of ancient roads, monuments, etc.

A map of every area to be acquired by the Commission is sent to the ancient monuments inspectorate of the Ministry of Works. The inspectorate notifies the Commission of any important monuments, etc., which in their view should be preserved and arrangements are agreed for their protection.

Can the Joint Parliamentary Secretary say how many cases of complaint there have been that ancient monuments have not been preserved?

There have been one or two, but on the whole the number has been small.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will ask the Forestry Commission to deforest the stretch of Roman road between Crowthorne and Bagshot wherever planting has interfered with its preservation.

No planting has been carried out by the Forestry Commission on that section of the Roman road known as the "Devil's Highway" between Crowthorne and Bagshot which is on land in their occupation. Some natural seedling growth of pines does take place on the road and this is cleared periodically.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the estimated cost to the Exchequer of the surplus potatoes destroyed or not used.

My right hon. Friend regrets that no reliable estimate can yet be made of the cost of disposing of potatoes not sold for human consumption.

Cannot the Joint Parliamentary Secretary make an approximate estimate of the loss on these potatoes? Can he assure the House that every step is taken to avoid loss of the potatoes themselvs? Surely we can dispose of these potatoes in some way?

It would be unwise to speculate what the total figure will be, but I can give the hon. Gentleman an assurance that the Potato Marketing Board is doing what it can to dispose of these surplus potatoes. It is a very inelastic commodity and we cannot easily step up sales.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the estimated subsidy on potatoes exported this year.

Some 67,000 tons of potatoes of the 1956 crop bought under the guarantee have been sold abroad for processing. The loss on disposals of this type, whether at home or abroad, is about £10 per ton.

Is this matter being reviewed by the Government in reviewing the export of foodstuffs which are being subsidised? The Joint Parliamentary Secretary will appreciate that representations are being made to his right hon. Friend about dumping and that we shall be in an impossible position if, at the same time, we are exporting foodstuffs which are subsidised by our taxpayers.