asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what consideration his Department has given in the interests of road safety to the effect which any change in the beginning and ending of the period of summer time would have on road accidents; and what are his conclusions.

The Road Research Laboratory, at the request of my Department, has recently made an analysis to determine the most beneficial arrangements for summer time from the point of view of road safety. The findings are not conclusive, and we hope to receive a further report from the Laboratory in due course.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that many people think it would be advantageous to road safety if summer time were extended—if it started earlier and ended later?

Yes, we will bear that in mind, but there are considerations on the other side, especially the agricultural ones.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what progress he has made in his discussions with the insurance companies regarding the financing of the road safety campaign.

The representatives of the insurance companies have recently informed me that they will be glad to co-operate in the forthcoming road safety campaign.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the French insurance companies are now devoting some hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to propaganda and demonstrations of road safety? Would he not think it a good thing if British insurance companies imitated that example? Does he think that enough is really being done by the insurance companies?

I agree with my hon. Friend. I am very grateful to the insurance companies for now taking a direct interest in road safety. I think that there is a big field here in which they can help, and I hope that they will consider doing perhaps rather more on the lines that my hon. Friend has suggested.

Is the Minister aware that in France, when the Government lose the confidence of the country, they resign?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) what steps have been taken to improve the safety of Watling Street at Grendon in the County of Warwick;

We have received representations for a speed limit and for a pedestrian crossing. We consider that these measures would not be appropriate but that elimination of stationary vehicles on this road would best improve its safety. Accordingly, bus bays have been constructed and "No Waiting" regulations on part of the road are being considered.

While I am very grateful to hear what the Minister has said, may I ask whether he has considered whether the number of fatal accidents taking place at that particular spot at Grendon might not justify the erection of large signs to warn motorists that they should be careful, because of that accident area? If he has not considered that, will he do so?

I do accept, of course, that that place has a very bad record, and anything we can do to improve it we should be very glad to do. I will ask our advisers whether they think that that suggestion would help, but the real solution will be the long-term improvement of that road and, of course, the ultimate building of the London-Birmingham and Birmingham-Preston motorways.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he has now given further consideration to the problem of taxis at the Leeds stations, in accordance with his undertaking to the hon. Lady the Member for South-East Leeds; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he has now completed his promised consideration of the problem of the use of station ranks by taxi-drivers, following upon the discussions which took place on 19th February between certain hon. Members and the chairman of the British Transport Commission; what are his general conclusions; and what particular conclusions he has reached in regard to taxi-cabs at Exchange Station, Manchester.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he has now completed his promised consideration of the problem of the use of station ranks by taxi-drivers, following upon the discussions which took place on 19th February between certain hon. Members and the chairman of the British Transport Commission; what are his general conclusions; and what particular conclusions he has reached in regard to taxi-cabs at two Liverpool stations.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he has now completed his promised consideration of the problem of the use of station ranks by taxi-drivers, following upon the discussions which took place on 19th February between certain hon. Members and the chairman of the British Transport Commission; what are his general conclusions; and what particular conclusions he has reached in regard to taxi-cabs at Slough station.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will now apply the recommendation of the Working Party on Hackney Carriages that privileged station ranks should be ended.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Avation whether he will now make a statement on the use or station taxi ranks by taxi-drivers, in view of discussions with the chairman of the British Transport Commission; and, in particular, how this will affect the situation in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Since this matter was last raised in the House the chairman of The British Transport Commission has carefully investigated the complaints made by hon. Members and I understand that he has written to them. I am now considering the question generally with the Commission.

Is the Minister aware that we consider the replies that we have had from the Chairman of the Commission to be very unsatisfactory, and that he does not deal with the main question at all? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the whole position is very unsatisfactory, and that it is really ludicrous to have free station ranks in some cities and not in others—London free, Leeds paying—and for different rates to be paid; and that, having regard to the convenience of passengers, it would be better if some other arrangement could be adopted?

I was not, of course, aware until this moment that the hon. Lady was dissatisfied with the Commission's reply but, as I have said, I am considering the question generally with the Commission. I must, however, make one thing plain. My duty is to try to see that the general convenience of travellers is met, and I think that it must be faced that the tenancy system for cabs does play some part in seeing that there is a service of cabs available at any hour when a station is open.

Does not the Minister think that there is a ridiculous anomaly in Manchester, where three main stations are completely open, but Exchange Station is closed in this way? Is he aware that passengers at Exchange, particularly in the holiday period, have to carry their bags about 400 yards down the station approach before being able to get a taxicab? Cannot he take some action himself to let the Chairman of the Commission know how strongly we feel on this matter?

Before the right hon. Gentleman replies, may I ask whether he would also consider the position in Newcastle where, again, there is no reason at all why a free rank should not be made available? If he is interested in the convenience of passengers, does he not realise that the first object should be to try to ensure that all the taxi-cabs are able to use the station portico in Newcastle?

Yes, but I am not making any final pronouncement on this subject, Mr. Speaker, because, as I have said, I am considering the broad question of policy with the Commission. But it is equally fair to say that it is the Commission's view—as, I think, expressed to hon. Members—that if we do away with the tenancy system entirely we will find that in the difficult hours—perhaps during the night or when there are other local activities—there will not be any taxis at all.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I also am very dissatisfied with the reply received from the British Transport Commission? When the right hon. Gentleman is looking at this matter, will he take into account the fact that of over 300 cabs licensed in Liverpool only 87 are permitted to use the three stations in that city; that cabs can collect their passengers and take them into the stations hut, unless licensed by the Transport Commission in Liverpool, are refused permission to pick up passengers from trains and take them from the stations? Would he not consider that, as the railways are now a public enterprise, the licensed taxi-cabs throughout the country should be permitted freely to use the stations in order to pick up and put down passengers?

I have said that I am looking into the general policy question with the Commission.

Whilst appreciating that the right hon. Gentleman has said that his mind is open on the matter, may I ask whether, when considering it, he will look at the Report of the Home Office Working Party on Hackney Carriages, which has unanimously recommended that where there is a nearby rank, the station rank shall be fed from it, irrespective of any privilege such as there is at the present time? And would he be ready to receive a deputation representative of a considerable number of hon. Members who are now stirred about the question?

I am, I think, well aware of the views of hon. Members, particularly after this afternoon. I think had first better have a look at this matter with the Commission.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many heavy goods vehicles were affected on 1st May, 1957, by the increase in maximum speed from 20 m.p.h. to 30 m.p.h.; and what steps he is taking to secure the removal from such vehicles of the plate carrying the figures "20".

About 140,000. I hope that owners will see to it that a disc which has ceased to have meaning is removed.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what plans are under consideration for improving car parking facilities at London Airport; and whether he can give an approximate date when these will be carried out.

Plans for improving car parking facilities at London Airport are part of a larger plan for the further development of the central area which I am now considering. I expect to announce my decision shortly. Meanwhile, there is sufficient parking space to meet immediate requirements save on a few occasions at holiday weekends.

While appreciating the difficulties involved, may I ask the Minister to endeavour to speed up this matter, because my information is that car parking at London Airport is very difficult for passengers and for the staff?

I appreciate that, but that is part of a larger problem of how we are going to enlarge the airport from its present capacity of 3 million passengers to about 11 million passengers in a few years' time.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what action he proposes to take to speed up the report of the Committee of Inquiry into inland waterways.

I am assured that the Committee is pressing ahead as quickly as the large volume of evidence permits.

Will the Minister try to impress upon the Committee of Inquiry how serious and urgent is this problem of the disused canals? Is he aware that in two canals in the Manchester district as many as 33 young children have lost their lives during the last two years, and that many of these disused canals are nothing but open sewers? Will the right hon. Gentleman, therefore, ask the Committee of Inquiry whether it can deal preferentially with this aspect of the matter and, if necessary, make an interim report to the Minister on the subject?

I will draw those remarks to the attention of the Bowes Committee, but I am more anxious that it should complete its final report.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that when this Committee was set up, we on these benches prophesied that it would mean at least a two years' delay, which would be intolerable, and when we made that prophecy we were ridiculed by the right hon. Gentleman?

No, I do not think I ridicule anybody in this House. What I said was that the Committee would do its work as quickly as possible. I think that the right hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that this is a formidable problem, and I want a really first-class detailed report which tries to sift the matter to the bottom. Probably the difference between us is that I am prepared to wait and the right hon. Gentleman is not.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is yet in a position to make a statement on the preparation of special regulations to enable utility-type vehicles to be used as public service vehicles.

I have recently circulated to interested organisations for comment certain proposals for the amendment of existing regulations to make it easier for these vehicles to qualify as public service vehicles.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him not to delay publishing some new code, because it is of extreme importance to operators of buses in rural areas and the unfortunate people who live in those areas who have no transport?

I quite agree, and I hope that the people who are being consulted will give us a quick reply, in which case we will get on quickly with the amended regulations.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, in view of the different regulations between the lighting of stationary vehicles in secondary roads in the Metropolitan area and in other areas and the confusion arising from this, if he will confer with other appropriate Ministers with a view to securing co-ordination in respect of this matter and the display of prominent notices where co-ordination is not effected or the regulations are different from those in the Metropolitan area.

I propose shortly to discuss these regulations with the interests concerned.

Is the Minister aware of the fact that quite a number of anomalies already exist, and that many well-intentioned citizens who do not want to break the law have been fined 5s. and upwards because they were quite unaware of the fact that they were just outside the London area?

I am quite aware that there are many anomalies, and that is the purpose of having these discussions. I hope to try to get them sorted out.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will make a statement with regard to the progress of his campaign to relieve pressure on travel facilities within the London area by staggering hours of work.

Schemes for five out of the six zones into which central London has been divided for this purpose have now been launched. Working hours for 10,000 staff have already been altered.

Is my right hon. Friend receiving co-operation from industry and from Government Departments?

Yes, and I should like to say that I think that Mr. Fitzgerald's crush-hour Committee is doing very well and will have a notable effect on London traffic in peak hours.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to what extent tile alternative roads north of Doncaster have been used in the attempt to divert traffic away from the town centre; and to what extent traffic congestion in and around Doncaster has been reduced.

Good use is being made of these alternative roads and as a result congestion in Doncaster, particularly north of the Don Bridge, has been considerably reduced.

Can the Minister say whether the organisations which arranged these diversions a good many miles north of Doncaster took into account diversions nearer Doncaster, particularly to the west, only a few miles north of Doncaster?

They took into account all the circumstances and thought that these routes provided the best diversions they could find. If the right hon. Member has any suggestions about how this diversion could be done better, I shall be glad to bring them to the attention of the local people.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what progress he has made with the introduction of his scheme for the compulsory inspection of cars; and when he anticipates a scheme will start to operate.

Two of my officers have just returned from a visit to the United States of America and Canada to inspect arrangements there for compulsory testing. I cannot yet say exactly when I shall be able to make a start on compulsory testing, but it will be as early next year as I can manage.

Is not the matter being delayed far longer than it ought to be? Does the Minister remember saying, when the Bill was passed, that he would try to put it into operation as soon as possible? In view of the fact that when the scheme is in full operation, about 500 lives a year ought to be saved in this country, according to authoritative estimates, is it not rather late to send two representatives now to America, a year after the passing of the Bill, to see how they are doing such testing?

I do not in the least mind being pressed about this matter by the right hon. Gentleman; I know that we both want to get it done as quickly as possible, because of its effect on saving lives. The next step is to get out a scheme, and I think I am correct in saying that I am pledged to the House to put the scheme before it in a White Paper. I hope to do that fairly early next year.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many fatal and non-fatal accidents have taken place in the known danger spot on the London Road, Hadleigh, Essex, near the junction of Woodfield Road. in 1955, 1956 and 1957, respectively; what advice was given by his Department to the highway authority; when this advice was first given; what decision has now been made; and when the necessary works will be started.

In 1955, there was one fatal accident and two involving personal injury. In 1956, there was one fatal accident and one involving personal injury. Both fatalities were to pedestrians. There have been no accidents involving death or personal injury during 1957. The county council, as highway authority, was advised in August last year to hold a census of pedestrians, and in October to consider the provision of an island refuge. The county council has, however, decided not to provide one.

There have already been two deaths at this point, and the matter was raised with the county council, as the highway authority, well over a year ago. Nothing has been done, in spite of advice given by my right hon. Friend's Departmental officers, and a decision has now been reached to put in a pedestrian crossing. Might I ask that it should be done with the greatest expedition, in order to avoid the accidents which otherwise will occur as summer traffic down the Southend Road increases?

We shall be very ready too expedite the fixing of the island there if the local highway authority has agreed to do it, and to do anything else we can.

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary pay a little more attention to the representations of his hon. Friend the Member for Essex, South-East (Mr. Braine), which seem to me to be at variance with those of the Essex County Council? Surely, the hon. Gentleman should not disregard the local knowledge of his hon. Friend in the way that he appears to be doing.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there has been a long dispute between the highway authority and the local authority? If two authorities cannot come to an agreement, surely it is the responsibility of the Minister of Transport to ensure that agreement is reached.

We will certainly use our good offices to try to reach that agreement.

Does my hon. Friend agree that many of the unresolved questions today would be best answered in a debate, such as we have not had for some time, with possibly one day devoted to roads and another to rail and air? If my hon. Friend agrees, will he communicate his views to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House so that a statement might be made before the Recess?

No doubt that observation of my noble Friend will be taken note of.

On a point of order. In view of the fact that the 57 Questions to the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation have not all been answered, would it not be advisable that we might have two days for transport Questions?

All these are not matters for me.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will make a statement with regard to the major improvements that are being made on the road London—Colchester—northeast Essex within the next two years.

Four major improvements schemes are in progress. We hope to authorise four more within the next two years.

Has the Minister received reports of the severe stoppages on this road last Sunday, and would he take steps to ensure that a really progressive attitude is adopted towards traffic control on it so as to make sure that the speed at Gallows Corner and other such junctions at least equals the speed at Tattenham Corner today?

I do not know about the latter feature, Mr. Speaker, but the Gallows Corner roundabout is, of course, being improved now. If there are any other points on the road that my hon. Friend feels need attention in regard to speed, and will let me know, I shall be very glad to look into those matters.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to what extent the new traffic signs are tested for visibility and effectiveness in a scientific manner by the Road Research Laboratory before being finally approved for use on the road.

We make use of the aid of the Road Research Laboratory whenever scientific research is involved, but I do not think that their help is required where established principles are applied to new traffic signs.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there are in the world today two generally accepted principles—the European system and United Nations system, which is a combination of the European and the American systems—but that the Regulations which came into operation on 1st March, issued by Her Majesty's Government, conform to neither? Can my hon. Friend say with which of the two main systems we intend to comply?

That supplementary question goes a good deal wider than the Question. The reply is broadly that we are following our established practice, our own system, and we think that on balance that is to the general benefit.

Does the hon. Gentleman's first reply mean that no scientific test whatsoever was made by anybody about the effectiveness of the new traffic signs before they were adopted?

No, not at all. There was a good deal of scientific research. The distinction that I was making was that with a great many new traffic signs there is a large common denominator which has already been covered by experience and therefore further research is not needed.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) if, in order to assist the early authorisation of the Severn bridge project, he will consider the institution of a special loan fund to meet the estimated cost; and if he will make a statement;

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will now give an assurance that arrangements will be made to initiate the Severn bridge project during the life of the present Government.

I have told the local authorities that I will include the Severn bridge scheme, which with the ancillary roads is estimated to cost some £36 million, in my road programme as soon as economic and financial considerations allow. The way in which the scheme is financed will not affect the priority which I can give to it.

As my right hon. Friend has said, as he has done on former occasions, that the cost of this scheme appears to be the obstacle, would it not be wise to give the public at large the opportunity of showing their confidence in such a project, which would be of great benefit to Wales and south-west England? Secondly, is it not a fact that this scheme until a few years ago ranked in priority well above the Forth and Tyne crossings —[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Yes, it is a fact—and can he explain why, so mysteriously, this scheme has been deferred and the others have been allowed to proceed?

Perhaps my hon. Friend did not take note of the last part of my Answer. I said that the way in which the scheme is financed will not affect the priority which I can give to it. As to the argument on which schemes have priority over others, I think the House has already indicated that I would be unwise to enter into that.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that it was the belief of the conference that if it agreed to the toll system, it could get a much higher priority, and that now the representatives of South Wales authorities are beginning to believe that the right hon. Gentleman led them up the garden path?

That just is not so, What I said to the conference, which the right hon. Gentleman attended, was "No tolls, no bridge", and I am glad that they now agree on the question of tolls. That, at least, will make the construction of the bridge possible.

May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that it is twenty-one years since a committee sat to inquire into this project and made representations to the then Government? How does it come about that after twenty-one years of negotiations we now have to take second or third place to the Tyne tunnel, the Tay bridge, or the Forth road bridge?

Will the Minister assure us that those of us living on the Tyne will not be put back because of this extraordinary wildcat scheme for a bridge which appears to defer the project for a Tyne tunnel, which has been before the House for very many years?

Is the Minister aware that in 1922 I mentioned the matter of the Forth road bridge?

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek the earliest possible opportunity of raising the matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is prepared to consider the provision of an outer by-pass as being more effective than the proposed inner relief road for the heavy traffic which at present has to pass through Stamford on the Great North Road.

Yes, Sir. I have decided not to proceed with the inner relief road scheme, but to build the outer by-pass instead on the line established in 1939.

Would my right hon. Friend care to estimate how long it will be before this project, which has been thought of for at least twenty years, will be completed?

No, I cannot give a definite date at the moment, but I am quite sure that my hon. and gallant Friend is right in suggesting that we ought to build the outer by-pass and not the inner road. I have already made some progress in deciding that, and will make some more as soon as I can.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether the through route signposting of London recommended by the Working Party set up in 1950 has yet been completed; what progress is being made with local direction signposting outside the inner ring road; whether plans have yet been made for the signposting of the area within the inner ring road; and which local authorities have failed to co-operate in implementing the Working Party's scheme.

The through route sign-posting will shortly be complete. Local signposting outside the inner ring road is proceeding, but there are still some gaps. Plans for the area within the inner ring road have now been prepared and are being considered. Not all councils have been equally prompt, but none has entirely failed to co-operate.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what conclusions he has drawn from the double white-line experiment.

The initial phase of this experiment has shown the need for more contrast in the different forms of carriageway markings, and I am examining certain changes. We shall hope to try these out in the second phase of the experiment.

As my right hon. Friend will be aware, this form of marking has been in existence in France for some time. Does he agree that it is important to draw the attention of motorists to the fact that although it may be safe to cross the white line on leaving a bend, it is dangerous to cross the white line on entering a bend?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for drawing attention to the scheme. There is much merit in trying to use the double white-line scheme in this country. I propose to continue my experiments to try to find the best way of doing it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say to what extent observa- tions have shown that the white line is being observed? In reply to a previous Question he said that if necessary he would take compulsory powers to compel adherence to the requirement that motorists should keep to the right side of the line. Is he considering taking compulsory powers?

Yes, but not until we have carried out more experiments and I am satisfied that we have found the best form of double white-line marking for this country.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware that the abandonment of the Canal Bridge, near Four Ashes, Staffordshire, is causing inconvenience and additional expense to omnibus users in the area; what would be the cost of strengthening the bridge so that it can again carry public service vehicles; and whether this cost would be more or less than the fares charged in five years for the additional mileage of 22,954 miles per year made necessary by the changed route.

The bridge has not been abandoned. Its owner, the British Transport Commission has come to the conclusion that it is unsafe for vehicles of over 5 tons laden weight, and the bus route has therefore been altered. A provisional estimate of the cost of strengthening the bridge is £2,500.

I think the Minister knows that I was not putting the point that the bridge has been abandoned but that its use by public vehicles has been abandoned. Will he look into the fact that the inconvenience and the additional length of the working day caused to many people in the area is far in excess of what we believe would be the cost of mending the bridge? As it is causing expense and lengthening the working day, will the hon. Gentleman please exert himself to have the bridge made suitable to carry public vehicles?

The Traffic Commismissioners considered this matter very carefully when the application was made to divert the route; but I understand that the highway authority—the county council—is in consultation with the British Transport Commission, and I can but hope that something useful will eventuate from that. In any event, I will have the hon. Lady's observations drawn to their attention.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what further progress has been made with the scheme for a riverside highway along the Thames Embankment.

The London County Council, which is the highway and planning authority, examined the scheme for a riverside highway jointly with the Port of London Authority and my Department and the conclusion was reached that the project was not one which should proceed at the present time. This decision was announced last December.

Does the Minister recall that he spoke highly of this scheme for a riverside highway from Blackfriars to Battersea? I am not asking him to he too impetuous in the matter, but will he include it in the new road programme now being prepared for the four-year period after the present programme ends in 1959? Would not it make a contribution to the relief of traffic congestion in London?

The question is whether one would be able to spend the £8 million to £10 million that it would cost in relieving congestion mare profitably elsewhere.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware of the need for both an inner and outer ring road round Manchester, with fly-overs or underpasses, where they cross the principal radial roads leading from the centre of the city; and what plans have been submitted to him by the local authority for the construction of such roads.

Proposals for ring roads round Manchester are included in the development plans of the several local authorities concerned. My right hon. Friend has also confirmed the Lancashire County Council's special road scheme for the part of the outer ring between Stretford and Eccles. We have already made a grant of nearly £2½ million towards the construction of this part, the plans for which provide for fly-overs or underpasses at junctions.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is not much sign of these plans being put into effect? Unless something is done very soon to keep through traffic out of the centre of Manchester, the whole of the traffic in the city will come to a standstill.

I know that there is a serious traffic problem there, but I think that my hon. Friend will see considerable progress with that scheme in the course of coming months.

The hon. Gentleman referred to the outer ring road but not to the inner ring road, which is quite as important. Has he anything to say about that?

I am afraid I am not able to announce any immediate scheme dealing with the inner ring road.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the new road proposed between Stretford and Eccles deals with one of the most urgent questions in the country? If so, may I ask him whether it is the intention of the Ministry to give it super-priority?

Yes, it is indeed. We have already made a grant towards the first part of it, and I hope that it will not be long before we go on with the second part.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he has considered the plan submitted to Her Majesty's Government by the British Road Federation for the faster building of motorways; and if he will make a statement.

I am most anxious to speed up the constructional work on the motor road programme which should start early next year. I am having discussions with the interests involved and will see that the views of the British Road Federation are taken into account.

May I ask my right hon. Friend if he is aware that the plan I have in mind deals mainly with finance, and I think that it was addressed in the first instance to the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, but it is none the less most important because its adoption would give him a much freer hand when pressing on with the many schemes that he has in mind?

I do not agree with that at all. The plan I have in mind is that it is my job to get the roads built as quickly as possible; and the question of finance does not enter into that particular problem.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, after consultation with the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee, he will appoint a working party to include traffic engineers with experience of traffic engineering abroad to review London traffic requirements and recommend major road improvements in accordance with modern traffic engineering technique as practised in the United States of America and on the Continent.

This suggestion is one of a number to which I am at present giving careful consideration.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he does not realise that there is growing concern at the fact that London appears to be lagging far behind the other capital cities of Europe in carrying out modern engineering works to relieve the increasing traffic congestion? While we have traffic engineers in this country, they do not seem to be used to the full advantage. Has not the right hon. Gentleman just stated that finance is not an obstacle? What is holding up modern construction in this country?

What I suggested was that the question of how to finance a road scheme is quite a different matter from the speed at which it is constructed. The traffic engineer has a very important part to play in the second matter, and that is why I said that I am looking into this question.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, with a view to expediting new highway construction, he will review the possibility of carrying out some of the preliminary legal, designing, planning and contract-drawing processes in parallel rather than in series.

Wherever possible, this is already being done. I cannot do more unless I over-ride the rights of individuals, which I am not prepared to do.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a good deal of dissatisfaction about the time which elapses between the announcement of a major road scheme here in the House and the time when the first bulldozer gets to work? Would it not be possible to adopt the technique of industry, that is, to put the lawyers, contract planners, designers, etc., all to work at the same time, so that, instead of working one after the other, they would all work in parallel?

Because I thought that it might be of interest to hon. Members, I have placed in the Library of the House a record of all the various stages which have to be gone through by my Department and the other interests involved, including local authorities, before we cover the gap between the announcement of a very large scheme and putting it out to contract. I think that, if any hon. Member who is interested cares to study that, he will see that what I have said is true, that one cannot do more to cut down the time unless one is prepared to over-ride the rights of individuals.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what the traffic capacity of the roundabout at the east end of Lambeth Bridge will be when it is completed; how many police are required to control traffic there now; and how many are expected to be needed when the work is completed.

It is estimated that the capacity will be about 4,000 vehicles per hour. Up to five police officers are required at present to control traffic at peak hours. I hope that no police control will be necessary when the work is complete.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that traffic at this end of Lambeth Bridge is often very congested, particularly in peak hours, and does he really think that the other end will be any better? Should not an underpass be thought of in this connection, and not a roundabout?

I am confident that the roundabout will be a considerable improvement over what we have now, and I think that, on present traffic volumes, it will be able to cope. If the volume of traffic becomes heavier in the future, it may be that we shall have to think again.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will now make a further statement on the steps which are being taken to improve the facilities in our ports by widening and deepening the entrances for this purpose.

This matter is the direct responsibility of the port authorities. Many important deepening and widening works are at present being undertaken or are planned, including, in particular, works in the Mersey, the Clyde, and at Sunderland and Southampton.

Is the Minister aware that the construction of shipping is outstripping the construction of ports; that the ports which we have were made to accommodate ships that were constructed forty years ago and that now we have ships on t he stocks that cannot be accommodated in any port in this country? Would he hold an inquiry into the position in oar ports?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is not quite right in saying that the construction of ships—by which. I think, he means the tonnage and size of ships—is outstripping the capacity of the ports. Perhaps I could send him a list of some of the works that are now going on—it is far too long to read it at Question time—which will show him that a great deal of work is being done to prepare for the larger ships.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, how many of the British Suez Canal pilots who withdrew their labour at the commencement of the crisis have been reinstated, now that British ships are sailing through; what alternative employment has been found for the remainder; and what compensation has been given to them and their families for loss and disturbance as a result of the action they were compelled to take.

I have not heard that any of these pilots have either sought or been offered employment by the Egyptian Suez Canal Authority, and I cannot say what alternative employment they may have found. These pilots were employees of the Suez Canal Company, which is responsible for any questions relating to compensation.

While expressing my appreciation for anything that has been done for the pilots, may I ask the Minister whether he will give an undertaking that these men, who carried out the instructions of the Government, will not suffer as a consequence of carrying out those instructions?

These pilots carried out the instructions of the Suez Canal Company, and I understand that the company is doing all that it can to help those who are in need.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the date of the commencement of the international conference organised by the Belgian Government and relating to the limitation of liability of seagoing vessels; and whether he will instruct the delegates of Her Majesty's Government at such conference to support the adoption of the draft convention, dated 29th September, 1955, and prepared by the International Maritime Committee, and in particular Article 3 (3) of the said convention.

The conference will begin on 30th September, 1957. Consultations are taking place with the many interests which would be affected if a convention on the lines of the draft prepared by the International Maritime Committee were adopted. These must be completed before instructions are given to the delegates of Her Majesty's Government at this conference.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Reply, but is he aware that, unless some tonnage figure is deemed to be the minimum for the purpose of limitation, any increase in the amount per ton in the case of tugs or fishing vessels will be rendered valueless where there are claims for loss of life or personal injuries, and does he not regard a figure of 300 tons as a very fair minimum?

I do not think that I am in a position at this stage, when consultations are going on with the organisations representing the owners of a very wide range of small craft, to say what Her Majesty's Government's attitude at the conference will be, but I will bear in mind what my hon. Friend says.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is yet in a position to give further information of the proposed railway link between the Air Terminal, Waterloo, and London Airport.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what progress has been made towards the provision of a rail link between central London rail termini and London Airport.

I am now studying, in consultation with the Chairmen of the British Transport Commission and the Airways Corporations, the Report of the Committee set up by the Commission to consider the possibility of a rail link between London and the airport.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he will use his best endeavours to get the matter speeded up, for the congestion on the road between Waterloo and London Airport is very bad and the matter is very urgent?

The matter may be very urgent, but some of the present proposals would close the main runway at London Airport for a considerable period, and that would cause even more congestion.

Will not the opening of the now coach station at Cromwell Road shorten the journey by about 15 minutes, and could my right hon. Friend say when that is likely to be open?

I think I am right in saying that the new terminal building at Cromwell Curve will be open before the end of the year, and that, in conjunction with the Cromwell Road Extension, should give a journey time to the airport of not more than about half an hour.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, in the interests of increased safety for the rail travelling public, what increase in automatic train control has taken place in the last twelve months; and at the present rate of progress how long it will be before all main lines and the locomotives working on them, whether steam, electric, or diesel electric, are appropriately equipped for automatic train control.

During the last twelve months the automatic train control test length was extended from 77 to 210 track miles. Since the British Transport Commission received my final approval of the system last November, it has been pressing ahead with its plans to provide the equipment on all the main traffic routes as quickly as possible. It is the Commission's intention to equip more than 1,300 miles of route, together with some 10,000 locomotives, by the end of 1962.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied with that rate of progress?

Yes; on the whole, I am satisfied, bearing in mind that we are at the beginning of this re-equipment programme. I think that progress will speed up.

Is it not a fact that this automatic train control system was well known before nationalisation but that it is only since nationalisation that action has been taken?

That is quite untrue, because the Great Western Railway was the pioneer in automatic train control and had it in operation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I think that he gave a very satisfactory answer to my Question? [An HON. MEMBER: "Then why grumble?"] I am not grumbling.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will now state the outcome of his consultations in regard to proceeding with the construction of the Victoria line tube.

I have had an approach from the British Transport Commission about the construction of this line and I am now considering the financial problems which it poses.

Is the Minister giving the most urgent attention to this matter? Does he not appreciate that the growing congestion in London is rapidly bringing traffic into a state of chaos, and that if there is not some relief to surface traffic by the increase in the provision of underground tube lines the situation will become desperate? Will the right hon. Gentleman give the most urgent consideration to this matter and announce a decision as soon as possible?

This project, as the hon. Gentleman knows, is not exactly a new one. It has been on the cards for a great many years. I am now examining it, but there are two problems. One is that a very large capital expenditure is required, and the other is whether it can be made to show a profit or whether it will show a heavy loss.

But would not the expenditure of this very large sum on constructing a new tube to relieve surface traffic be better than spending it on street widening, etc., which is even more expensive in London?

That is the relevant point which I am considering.

is my right hon. Friend aware that at the meeting of the Select Committee, of which I was Chairman, to consider the Bill for constructing this line we were informed by the British Transport Commission representative that on no account could the tube ever be made to pay? Will my right hon. Friend make sure, it he does decide to go ahead with this line, that it is thoroughly justified, in spite of that?

I am grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend for pointing that out, because it is one of the great problems. I understand that it is not possible to make this any kind of a paying proposition.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It might be helpful to hon. Members who from time to time serve on such Select Committees to know whether it is proper to mention views expressed in those Committees, as the hon. and gallant Member for the Isle of Ely (Major Legge-Bourke) has done.

I think it is in order if it is long after the event and the Committee has reported. There is no objection to it then. It is, of course, out of order to make any disclosure of what happened in a Select Committee before the Committee reports to the House. Perhaps that is what is in the hon. Gentleman's mind.

Further to your Ruling, Mr. Speaker. May I thank you for the protection which you have accorded me, and may I say that this Bill was reported to the House over a year ago?

That was the point that I was anxious to find out before I gave my Ruling.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what plans for improvement to the Waterloo-Bank underground railway, including the Bank terminal, have now been submitted to him for approval.

I understand that work is starting this month on the installation at the Bank terminal of "travelators" which will speed up the movement of traffic at peak hours.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this railway, commonly called "the drain", is in a shocking state of dirt and dilapidation, and that if cattle were crowded into the trains in the way that City workers are there would be prosecutions? Although "travelators" may help they will not solve those two problems. Will the right hon. Gentleman take urgent action to get the place cleaned up and to see what he can do to help in solving the really bad problem of overcrowding?

I will call to the attention of the Commission what the hon. Gentleman has said, but the "travelators" will make a major contribution to solving the worst problem of all, and that is the very long and crowded walk from the station up to the Bank.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will permit Aberdeen Flying School and Aberdeen Flying Club to resume training under their pre-war leases.

My right hon. Friend is ready, as he and his predecessors have always been, to permit the companies to resume trading on reasonable terms, but I regret that the pre-war leases contain provisions which would not be suitable in current conditions.

May I ask the Minister whether he is aware that the terms on which he is inviting the recommencement of the work of the flying club and school are on a year-to-year basis, with no security in regard to the monopoly of these services? Is he aware that those are terms which no sane person could accept, and does he realise that it is his attitude which is denying a flying school and club to Aberdeen?

I do not realise that it is because of my action that this is so. This matter in regard to monopoly rights arose in 1950, when negotiations broke down. On 29th May, I suggested that representatives of this company should come to my Ministry, and I am quite willing to see them and to continue the negotiations.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is aware that Aberdeen Flying Club's pavilion has been unoccupied since the end of the war; and if he will state the date on which it was vacated.

Yes, Sir. The pavilion was transferred with vacant possession from the Air Ministry to the Ministry of Civil Aviation on 31st May, 1946. It was derequisitioned on 24th August, 1946. Although, at the request of the company, the derequisition notice was subsequently cancelled, the club has remained in possession.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how long the furniture and assets of Aberdeen Flying Club's Pavilion have been stored what is the total amount which has been paid for storage; the current annual cost of storage to his Department; and if he will compensate Aberdeen Flying Club for depreciation and obsolescence of stored goods.

The furniture and effects of the Aberdeen Flying Club's pavilion have been stored since the requisition of the pavilion on 13th October, 1939. The total amount paid for storage is £665 16s. 7d., including chattels from another of the club's buildings; the annual storage cost is £39. There is no statutory provision for the payment of compensation for depreciation or obsolescence of the goods so stored.

Will the Minister say why he does not return to the club that furniture which has been in his hands for the last twelve years? Is it not a gross waste of public money to store that furniture, when it could be of use in its original place?

I am quite prepared to discuss the question of ultimate responsibility for these storage charges with Mr. Gandar Dower, as I suggested last week.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is aware of the regret existing in South America and those who trade with it at the absence of British air services; and whether he will indicate when aircraft will be provided for the resumption of British Overseas Airways Corporation's operations on this route.

I hope there are many who, like myself, want to see British air services to every part of the world, including South America. But as I have explained to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Mr. Hurd), there are good reasons why I cannot yet forecast when B.O.A.C. will be able to resume operations on this route.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, during this present period when economically we are not perhaps in a position to do much trade with South America because of other priorities, it is important that this connection should be kept, and that this is one of the ways by which it would seem practicable to make our friends in South America realise that Britain is still interested in that enormous and great country?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to know that, in reply to an earlier Question which has not been asked orally. I would have said that B.O.A.C. is sending a survey team of seven people to South America this month to survey market conditions and the possibilities of restarting the service.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that a national company like B.O.A.C., which has a monopoly on all the trunk routes of Britain, has an obligation to give some sort of service? Would he say that if the Corporation fails to give that service, it should be open to somebody else to do so?

The service is open to anybody now, because it is not being run by any company. Therefore, it is open to any company to ask permission.

Can the Minister tell us what is the object of the market survey, because, as a matter of fact, the Corporation has had offices in that continent throughout the period in which the service has been terminated? Were we not given to understand before that this was entirely a matter of the availability of aircraft, and can he now say whether there is any possibility of a suitable aircraft coming along in the foreseeable future?

I think the hon. Gentleman knows that the long-range Britannia was ordered for this purpose, as well as for the North Atlantic. Therefore, it seems to be an appropriate time for the Corporation to send out one or two of its, experts to have a look at the market in the light of present conditions.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what new arrangements or regulations he proposes to make for the assistance of the independent air transport operators.

I informed the House on 20th February that I was reviewing, the basis of the Colonial coach services to take account of changing conditions. These include the increasing economic difficulty of using older aircraft, constitutional changes limiting the scope for Colonial coach services, and the trend towards very high density seating in the tourist class with corresponding fare reductions for that class of service. As I stated then, I sought the advice of the Air Transport Advisory Council on this problem. I have now received and am studying its recommendations. I am consulting interested colonial Governments also, and I hope to be able to make an announcement as soon as I have their views.

Does the Minister recall that he said last week also

"I hope before long to bring to this House proposals which, I think, will be of value to private enterprise airlines."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 29th May, 1957; Vol. 571, c. 401.]

That remark referred to the recommendations which I have received from the A.T.A.C. which, as I have told the hon. Gentleman. I will announce but cannot announce now because they have not been cleared through colonial Governments.

Would the Minister bear in mind that any proposals that he brings forward will be accepted by this House if they are of value to these private enterprise companies, but only if they do not involve expenditure of public money and do not impede the proper development of the Corporations?

I quite agree, and I will make an announcement as soon as I can.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on his recent discussions with the Defence Minister of India.

I have been asked to reply. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] My right hon. Friend is attending an important meeting.

Whilst it may have been informal, is the Minister aware that the Press has reported that the Indian Defence Minister was anxious to buy some British jets, and that if he could not get them he was liable to go to the Soviet Union? Can we have an assurance that, if at all possible and commensurate with our own defence programme, the Government will do all they can to assist and help India with the planes, if India wants them?

In general, I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. If he wishes to have detailed information, perhaps he will address the question to the Minister of Supply.

asked the Prime Minister if, in view of its heavy rainfall and density of population, he will have