asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what proposals have been made by the Governments of the High Commission Territories for pension or other schemes for old age, disability, and blindness.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by the then Under-Secretary of State, my right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Chelsea (Commander Noble), to the hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) on 25th October of last year.

Things have happened since then. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Union of South Africa has now introduced pensions for old age, disability and blindness? Cannot we at least do something similar in our British Protectorates?

Her Majesty's Government are anxious to improve the standard of social services in any way that is possible in accordance with the economic conditions of the territories, but, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will admit, it is important that economic development should be the precursor of any elaboration of the social services, because without a basis of economic development it would be impossible to carry them very far.

I would not admit that.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what provision is made, or planned, for the settlement of Africans in urban areas in Swaziland; and, in particular, what are the housing facilities for Africans in the urban districts of Hlatikulu, Mbabane, and Bremersdorp, respectively.

In Mbabane and Bremersdorp Africans own numerous freehold plots on which they may erect their own buildings. In addition, Africans are permitted to erect temporary buildings free of charge on Government land in Mbabane, Bremersdorp, and Hlatikulu. Housing is provided in urban areas for Africans in Government service. The Resident Commissioner has recently appointed a Committee to advise him on future plans for African settlement in urban areas.

While I welcome recent advances, can the hon. Gentleman say whether the urban areas are reserved for Europeans, whether there is segregation in locations, and whether Africans are placed in areas which are some distance from their work? Will he look into this matter?

If the hon. Gentleman will table a Question on that subject, I will do my best to answer it in due course.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what is the earliest date on which the conference, provided for in Article 99 of the Constitution of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, may be convened.

23rd October, 1960.

Will the hon. Gentleman enlighten Sir Roy Welensky about this, because he has spoken of two and a half years as the period in which amendments to the Constitution can be achieved?

The date to which I have referred is the one which is effective on the basis of the provisions of Article 99 of the Constitution. I am sure that the Prime Minister of the Federation is well aware of it. He may have spoken rather broadly about the time.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if there appears to be any attempt to hasten the conference unduly in order to secure an advantage for some group or community, it will not only increase resentment but make much more difficult the task of those who seek constitutional reform?

The provisions in the Constitution are quite clear on this matter.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education what protests he has received from the Education Authority of the County Borough of West Ham over the price of school meals; what was the nature of the recent protest, and his reply; and whether he will give details of the fall-off of meals taken at school in West Ham for each of the years from 1951.

The West Ham Local Education Authority wrote to the Ministry on 22nd March and a reply was sent on 2nd April last; I am sending the hon. Member a copy of these letters. As the answer to the last part of the Question contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that a number of hon. Gentlemen, both on this side of the House and the Government side, would like to know the details of the protest? Will the hon. Gentleman therefore circulate it in HANSARD? Will not the figures which he mentions confirm that each time the price of the meals has gone up there has been a fall-off in the number of children taking school meals? Will he do something to bring down the price of these meals?

The figures for West Ham to which this Question relates, while falling sharply between 1952 and 1953, have fluctuated quite a good deal since from year to year. I cannot say what other factors besides the change in the charge may have contributed to this fluctuation.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education the number of school meals provided for the months of February, March, April, and May for 1956 and 1957, respectively.

I regret that this information is not available, as my Department's returns relate to a selected date in the autumn.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that in almost every area, and particularly in large industrial areas, the number of children taking school meals is dropping and that in Stoke the drop was 7,000 in the month of May? This is largely due to the fact that the school meal has gone up in price. Would the hon. Gentleman take every possible care to get local authorities and teachers to see that no child suffers and that free meals are available if the need arises?

It will not be possible to make a valid comparison with 1956 until we have the normal autumn return in the latter part of the year. That will show the full effect of the increase from 10d. to 1s., which took effect in April of this year.

Is it not a fact that this miserable economy at the expense of the poorest children must inevitably be reflected in their physique? Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the stunted child never recovers, however much food it is given in after years?

When the full figures are available at a later stage we can discuss these matters, when I am sure the right hon. Lady will have eloquent remarks to make, including more remarks about physique.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary look at the facts that have been brought out, both arising from this Question and from Question No. 5? Does not it become evident that there is a clear causal connection between rising prices and the falling-off in school meals and that the matter ought to be looked at again?

The question specifically relates to

"February. March, April and May for 1956 and 1957."

I did suggest that we should suspend judgment until the normal autumn return is available.

Is it not a fact that the children of the poorest parents get these meals free?

No.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education if he will estimate the percentage grammar school intake in the area served by the Atherstone Grammar School in the County of Warwick.

About 14 per cent.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that he has given only a nominal percentage and that the effective grammar school intake is more like 10 per cent.? Is he aware that this fall is caused by the deferment of some pupils until September, 1958? Is he further aware that this is also the percentage of selective intake as well as of grammar school intake, and will he ask the county education authority to look at this particular area and then report how he proposes to raise selective education nearer to 20 per cent.?

It is worth bearing in mind that extensions to Atherstone Grammar School will be ready by September, 1958, and that the standard of selection in this part of the county is no more severe than in others.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education what staffing deficiencies exist in secondary modern schools at Wilnecote, Kingsbury, Atherstone and Polesworth in the County of Warwick; and what deficiencies are expected in September, 1957.

I understand from the Warwickshire Local Education Authority that at present these schools have eight fewer teachers than they would wish. I cannot say what the position will be in september.

Can the Minister confirm whether or not there has been a mistake at Wilnecote for September next, where it appears that the teacher-pupil ratio will be 55 to one? It is 38 at Atherstone, 28 at Polesworth and 27 at Kingsbury. Is he aware that in the Report of the United Nations on the World Social Situation it is stated that the world teacher-pupil ratio is only betwen 35 and 36?

The staffing of individual schools is a matter for the local education authority, but if there is one particular detail regarding a particular school perhaps the hon. Gentleman will communicate with me.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education what steps are being taken to make more grammar school places available in the area served by the Atherstone Grammar School in the County of Warwick either by enlargement of the existing grammar school or by the organisation of General Certificate of Education courses at other appropriate secondary schools.

Atherstone Grammar School is being extended and a G.C.E. course has been started at Polesworth County Secondary School.

Are not these improvements such as will bring up the grammar intake to 14 per cent. by September, 1958? Is the Minister aware that there will be an inflow of Birmingham overspill population which will require improvements in addition to those he has mentioned?

Yes, Sir. In regard to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I understand that the Warwickshire Local Education Authority is considering the need for providing more places in the selective schools in connection with the possibility of overspill from Birmingham.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education in how many schools milk tablets are given to scholars in place of fresh or reconstituted milk; and for what reason this choice is made.

Fifteen. A satisfactory supply of fresh milk cannot be arranged for these schools, and the children prefer tablets to reconstituted milk.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise how much the health of school children depends upon the milk-in-schools scheme? Does he also realise that these abominable milk tablets can never take the place of fresh or reconstituted milk? Has he ever tried to eat ten tablets such as are given to these children, and, if so, how long has it taken him?

No, Sir, but I am told that at some of the fifteen schools using tablets pupils who have previously refused to drink reconstituted milk now seem quite to enjoy sucking their tablets. My noble Friend approves the supply of tablets or dried milk only where he is satisfied that satisfactory arrangements cannot be made for the supply of fresh milk.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education the number of full-time and part-time opticians and dentists employed in the school medical service of local authorities.

So far as I am aware no opticians are employed by local education authorities. Last December the school dental service was staffed by 947 dentists in full-time local authority service and 567 others employed on a sessional basis.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in Stoke there are part-time opticians employed at very large fees, that every local authority is having very great difficulty in obtaining full-time dentists, and that this position is having a very detrimental effect on the service which can be given? Is he further aware that many school medical officers are now saying quite definitely that a comprehensive school dental service is impossible? Would he not consult his right hon. and learned Friend to see what inducement and encouragement can be given to dentists to undertake this work?

I will consult my right hon. and learned Friend about this, or the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Heatlh. It is fair to point out that the staff of the school dental service in England and Wales has risen appreciably during the last five years, although we all recognise that it is still well below optimum requirements.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education what financial help is available from public funds to teachers taking supplementary courses in mathematics.

Teachers employed by local education authorities are seconded on salary to supplementary courses in all subjects. Tuition is free. Other expenses are borne by the teacher.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary considered that this arrangement, while quite suitable for a teacher without any dependants, is not altogether suitable for teachers with families dependent on them? Will he look at the matter in view of the importance of persuading teachers to take up this course?

Of course, I will consider any matter the hon. Gentleman likes to bring to my attention. I am writing to him about the particular case he raises.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education whether he will now introduce the necessary regulations to ensure that all future entrants to the teaching profession shall have received training either in a recognised training college or in a university training department; and whether he will make a statement.

No, Sir.

Whilst thanking the hon. Gentleman for that very full reply, may I ask if he is aware that this Question includes one of the motions which was passed at the recent Conference of the National Union of Teachers and that the profession feels strongly about it? Will he try to give a reasonable reply?

My right hon. Friend is fully aware of the strong views of the National Union of Teachers on this matter, but he must also take into account all the needs of the schools. We cannot afford to recruit into the maintained schools fewer graduates and other untrained specialists than we do now.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education how many students desirous of entering a teachers' training college in 1956 were unable to gain a place in 1956 and were again refused admission in 1957.

I regret that this information is not available.

Will not the hon. Gentleman take steps to get this information? Is he aware that for years past parents have been told that there is this shortage of teachers and they have been encouraged to keep their children at school, but it is pretty hard on those parents if, after keeping their children at school until they are 19, they find the children cannot enter training colleges?

There is no central register of applications. In any case, the figure for which the hon. Lady asks would really mean little by itself. It is important to have quality as well as quantity.

Does the hon. Gentleman remember that one of the effects of the proposed three-year training as at present conceived will be to reduce the number of places available for people proposing to take up the teaching profession? Would he not accept, therefore, that it is important to get a figure of this kind so that we may know whether we are turning away from the profession people who are qualified to take it up?

More students are being admitted in 1957, but at the same time competition is keener than it was in 1956, which I should have thought was not a bad state of affairs.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education if he will devise machinery whereby students who remain at school to become teachers and fail to gain a place in a training college one year are given high priority for the next year.

No, Sir. My noble Friend thinks that colleges are right to choose the best candidates, without giving priority to those who have made previous applications.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that if boys or girls are suited to be teachers they ought to be admitted to training college at least in the second year in which they apply, and that if they are not suited to be teachers, they ought to be so informed in order that their parents can arrange another career for them?

I really disagree with the hon. Lady on this question. We want quality, and the only way to get that is to get colleges to judge people on their merits. If the would-be teachers improve their academic ability between the first time they apply and the second time they apply, so much the better, but it would be wrong to interfere with the rights of colleges to examine applicants on their merits.

Does this not raise the question of provision of places in training colleges, because it means that many girls and boys who are unable to get into college in the first year or the second year will give up the idea of teaching altogether? Will the hon. Gentleman look at the whole problem again in the light of freeing all places?

That question raises rather wider questions which we discussed in April. At the present time we are getting more students in the colleges; the improvement in quality is not a bad thing.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education what conclusions he has reached on the Report of the Working Party on Educational Maintenance Allowances; and what action he proposes to take.

The Report is being published today. My noble Friend is informing local education authorities that he accepts the Working Party's recommendations that the general level of maintenance allowances should be raised, but he has decided to approve maximum allowances of £40, £55 and £65 a year for pupils aged 15, 16 and 17 respectively, in place of the somewhat higher figures recommended by the Working Party.

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer and congratulate him and my noble Friend upon this advance.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Education what steps he is taking to ensure that senior pupils in schools are made acquainted with the latest conclusions of the Medical Research Council on the probable relationship between cigarette smoking and cancer of the lung.

My noble Friend has sent copies of the statement in the House on 27th June to local education authorities and to all independent schools. My noble Friend considers that it must be left to teachers themselves to decide how to make their senior pupils acquainted with these conclusions. He hopes, however, that they will in any case also encourage young people to use their own judgment on the choice of the best directions in which to spend their money.

Cannot the Minister go a step further and make direct suggestions to the teachers—suggestions from the Ministry have a great effect on teachers—so that they may make sure that children leaving school at any rate know the up-to-date facts as to the relationship which is believed to exist between cigerette smoking and cancer of the lung and other diseases?

I quite agree that teachers should acquaint pupils with the facts, but how they do so is best left as their own responsibility. It would be a mistake for this advice to be too negative. The important thing, surely, is to point out the very wide range of choice which people have in our modern society, and it seems that the wider approach would obviously be the best one.

Could the hon. Gentleman approach the Central Council for Health Education with a view to a rather more lively presentation of the facts, about which it knows a great deal?

I will consider that, Chapter 13 of the well-known Handbook on Health Education will be brought up to date before it is reprinted.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, in view of the fact that our balance of trade with the Argentine Republic has been about four to one by value against the United Kingdom for several years despite the intentions expressed in the agreement of 1955, what steps he proposes to take to bring this trade more into balance.

I share my hon. Friend's regret that the value of our exports to the Argentine Republic is not more closely related to the value of our imports. But, in assessing the balance, allowance must be made for considerable Argentine purchases of raw materials from other countries in the Commonwealth, and of oil produced and sold by British companies.

The Agreement of 1955, to which my hon. Friend refers, has been superseded by new arrangements which put Argentine payments and trade with us and most other countries in Europe on a non-discriminatory basis, and I hope that these arrangements will enable our exporters to increase their trade in this important market.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the trade the Argentine does with the Commonwealth makes up for the lack of exports of ours which she takes? Is it not wrong that we should buy £6 million worth of wheat and £27 million of meat from the Argentine in the first five months of this year in view of this colossal unbalance of trade, bearing in mind that Australia probably would like to sell us both more wheat and more meat?

The Argentine purchases from the Commonwealth are very heavy. I shall let my hon. Friend know how nearly they make up the gap. I think we need the Argentine meat, and I would not be in favour of cutting it off.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, during international discussions concerning a European Free Trade Area, he will seek to secure general recognition that edible gelatine is a food product.

No, Sir. The tariff arrangements for the European Free Trade Area will be based on the Brussels Nomenclature, and the experts who drafted this Nomenclature classified all types of gelatine along with chemicals and allied products.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that all the materials from which edible gelatine is made are included already within Chapters 1 to 24 and that edible gelatine, which is undoubtedly a food product, the only true one, is not included in Chapters 1 to 24? As it is so simple and does not include any other product, would not the right hon. Gentleman try to get an agreement at O.E.E.C. or elsewhere to include this one product?

No. Sir. I am told that the situation is not simple. Gelatine and glue are substantially the same thing. They are used very largely for industrial purposes, particularly in the plastics industry. The distinction the right hon. Gentleman asks for would be rather difficult to make.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that this product is made in two factories only in this country, with the aid of assistance under the Development Areas scheme, that it is produced entirely from bones from this country or imported from India, and is a valuable Commonwealth trade? Ought he not at least to make one effort to see if he can help it under these new arrangements?

My information is that the industry in this country is not at all unanimous about this and that some of them would like to go into the Free Trade Area.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the imports of Italian apples for the five months ended 31st May, 1957, exceeded those of the comparable period in 1956 by 5,600 tons; and what steps he is taking to ensure that the quota is not again exceeded in the full year, in view of the value of these imports already being £100,000 worth in excess of the comparable figure last year.

There is no separate quota for Italian apples. They are imported under a quota which applies generally to countries in Western Europe and most other non-dollar countries outside the Sterling Area. The quota was in fact under-used by more than £150,000 in 1956, and the second part of my hon. and gallant Friend's Question does not, therefore, arise.

Whilst fully appreciating the point made by my right hon. Friend about the O.E.E.C. countries being covered by the quota and not Italy separately, may I ask him to bear in mind that there is a very serious aspect of this matter in that the volume goes on increasing although the monetary quota stays the same? Could he so devise some way by which we should limit the volume each year rather than basing it purely on the value?

I will look at that.

asked the President of the Board of Trade why, despite the monetary quota for imports of apples from the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation countries having been set at £3 million in both 1954 and in 1956, the volume of such imports has increased by nearly 25 per cent. in both the January to June and the July to December periods; and what action he proposes taking to safeguard the British grower, bearing in mind that the official wholesaler-to-retailer prices for 1956 show that the value of Italian apples alone exceeded £4 million on the home market.

The volume of imports appears to have increased because the quota has been more fully used and there has been a bigger proportion of cheaper apples. I do not think that the published wholesale prices for 1956 justify the conclusion which my hon. and gallant Friend draws from them, and I have no reason to believe that the value limit of £3 million under the quota was exceeded.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable concern amongst British growers that the quota is being abused? Will he make it quite clear to importers that if it is abused the quota will be reduced in subsequent years?

I have no evidence of under-invoicing, but if my hon. and gallant Friend would like to bring any to my notice, I will look at it. If the quota is exceeded, we shall certainly have to take appropriate action.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the value and quantity of imported apples has risen from 143,350 tons at a cost of £10,997,662 in 1954 to 189,037 tons at a cost of £14,240,962 in 1956; and whether, in view of the fact that United Kingdom growers have, with Government encouragement, recently increased their production, he will state what is now his policy on this matter.

Yes, Sir. Nearly a third of the increase was due to higher imports under the open general licence from sterling Commonwealth countries and the balance mainly to imports from Canada and the United States of America which were not resumed until late in 1954. It remains the Government's policy to place no restrictions on imports of apples from Commonwealth countries in the sterling area. Those from other areas continue to be restricted by quotas.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that as a result of encouragement given by Government after Government since the war, and particularly by the Government of 1945–50, home growers increased their production and a great many trees were planted in that period which are now coming into full fruit? It is, therefore, important, in order to implement the Tory Party's pledge to the growers, that he should see that non-Commonwealth imports are kept under very careful supervision.

Yes, Sir. We are constantly under pressure to increase these quotas and we have not yielded to that pressure.

Is the Minister aware that if the orchards in the constituency of the hon. and gallant Member for the Isle of Ely (Major Legge-Bourke) are as bare of apples as is my garden, we shall need all the apples we can get from overseas?

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is satisfied that it is in the best interests of the British motor car industry that their cars should be exported to Norway under a barter arrangement in exchange for sprats; and if he will take steps to bring this type of international trading to an end.

Multilateral trading is certainly preferable to barter deals, but private traders are free to make export and import arrangements which do not contravene our licensing system or the exchange control.

How can it be in the interests of the motor car industry and of the nation for us to export high-grade engineering products and in exchange to accept low-grade sprats?

I have no evidence on the grade of the sprats.

Even if we do not want open general licences for motor car imports, has not the Scottish fishing industry a genuine grievance here, and what does the President intend to do about it?

I intend to keep canned sild on open general licence.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that trade with Norway in engineering goods is very closely restricted by Norwegian quotas? Is he further aware that the home manufacturers thought that they were doing a good job for the United Kingdom by opening up some trade, even if only on a barter basis?

Is it right for the nation to use dollars for steel for manufacturing cars and then to exchange the cars for sprats?

asked the President of the Board of Trade the total value of tobacco leaf imports from the United States of America for the year 1956; and the total value of tobacco leaf imports from the Commonwealth countries for the same year.

The figures are £42 million and £33·3 million, respectively.

In order to save dollars and to help the balance of payments, will the Minister encourage greater purchases of the better leaf from the Commonwealth countries instead of from the United States?

I do, but it is a fact that the manufacturers here are already buying all the good-qualify leaf which they can get from the Commonwealth.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware of the plan officially announced by the Prime Minister of Canada to divert 15 per cent. of Canada's imports from the United States of America to imports from Great Britain; what steps he proposes to take to encourage British exporters to take advantage of this plan; and if, in return, he will encourage the purchase of more wheat from Canada in order to help to dispose of her wheat surplus.

We all welcome the statement of the Prime Minister of Canada that his Government aim to divert 15 per cent. of Canadian imports from the United States of America to this country. We shall study urgently any proposals the Canadian Government may care to send us. In the meantime, the prospects from this end are being examined. We have good hopes that British industry can supply what Canada wants.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he agrees that we ought also to give encouragement to Canada by buying more from her? Could we not buy more wheat from Canada and less from the United States, in view of the fact that we bought £22 million worth from Canada in the first five months of this year and £40 million worth from the United States?

We buy our wheat on open general licence and there is, therefore, nothing to stop Canada selling us more than she is selling us now. In order to divert purchases of wheat we should have to adopt methods which my hon. Friend might think objectionable.

Dealing with exports to Canada, will the right hon. Gentleman look seriously to see whether the quality and the quantity of the staffs of our trade commissioners in Canada are good enough to give our exporters the help which they need?

I have been looking at that and I have been much encouraged by the testimony from British industry to the quality of those staffs. I agree with the hon. Member that we must continually keep it under review.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what answer he has received from the Government of the United States of America following the representations made by Her Majesty's Government in the interests of the wool textile industry with reference to the imposition of further restrictions upon imports of wool fabrics into the United States by means of a tariff quota of only 14 million lbs.; and whether he will make a statement.

No answer has been received, and I am not in a position to add to the statement made by my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State in answer to Questions on 4th June.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the acute concern about this in the wool textile industry? Will he do what he can to get the American Government to give a sympathetic answer in this problem? Is he aware that there is a feeling that the industry is being used as a whipping boy, when I am sure he knows that there are quite different reasons for the fall in production amongst American producers?

My right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and I have made very strong representations to the United States.

In view of the urgency of this matter and of the fact that valuable dollar-earning contracts are being lost as a consequence of this tariff quota, would the Minister be prepared to make further representations, even if only to get the date postponed when the increased tariff will come into effect?

I think we had better await the reply to our note.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this tariff quota is almost prohibitive in the high-class woollen trade of this country and that it is no protection of the American domestic trade, because none exists in this quality? Is it, therefore, not an infringement of the provisions of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade?

I think it is right to say that the American Government are within their legal rights in doing what they have done, but it certainly injures our trade and has a particularly bad effect, as my hon. Friend says, on the high-quality cloth.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware of the difficulty caused to many executors through their having to pay Estate Duty on the delivery of the Inland Revenue affidavit; and if the arrangement can now be revised so that the duty will not be payable until probate has been granted and the executors placed in a position to deal with the assets of the estate.

The present law provides an essential safeguard for collection of duty; but if my hon. Friend has in mind a particular case where difficulty has arisen, I should be pleased to look into it.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is a little unfair for executors to have to borrow money and to commit themselves in other ways before they are legally in a position to deal with an estate? Is he further aware that the almost indecent haste with which Estate Duty has to be paid often forces executors to realise assets not at their best value?

It has been the case ever since this duty existed that it has been payable before probate, and I understand that few cases of real difficulty arise. I am, however, anxious to look into any which my hon. Friend will bring to my attention.

Apart from individual cases, may I ask whether my hon. Friend considers that the fact simply that it has always been done in the past is a good reason to maintain it if it inflicts general hardship?

I am inclined to think that, in general, the reason is good. It has been looked at time after time and has always been considered to be a necessary safeguard of the revenue.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that British subjects who bought National Savings certificates in Egypt during the war are now unable to cash these certificates in England; if he is aware of the inconvenience and concern which this ruling is causing; and if he will make a statement.

All applications for repayment of certificates which have been received by the Post Office have been met in full; but my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General will examine any particular cases which my hon. Friend has in mind.

Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that there is, in fact, no question at all but that these certificates are freely and readily encashable, as, indeed, all securities issued by the Brutish Government should be at all times and in all places?

Certainly.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what has been the cost of the Premium Bonds scheme up to the present time, distinguishing between prizes and advertising and administrative costs; and what is the ratio between the total expense incurred and the amount of money invested.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount lent to the Government in Premium Bonds; the amount paid out as prizes; and the administrative and advertising costs of the scheme for the latest available date.

The amount remaining invested in Premium Savings Bonds at the end of June was about £82½1 million. The total prize money in the first two draws was slightly below £1¼ million, and administrative and advertising costs up to the end of the second draw are estimated at £1,650,000. The ratio between the total expenses incurred and the amount invested is about 1 to 28.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that he is not having to pay rather heavily for the money that is being raised in this particular way?

This is a most welcome addition to National Savings. The recent results have been very promising indeed, and so far it has been well worth the investment.

Can the Financial Secretary give any estimate of the new money included in the figures which would not have been lent to him under old schemes? Is he really of the opinion that the very heavy expenses he has mentioned warrant the new scheme, having in mind the money which would have been subscribed under the ordinary system?

The hon. Member must bear in mind that National Savings generally, as well as the Premium Bond scheme within National Savings, did extremely well last year, and are doing very well this year.

Does the hon. Gentleman think that the diversion of all this money from the gilt-edged market is one of the causes of the fall in gilt-edged prices?

Not a large part of what is bought in ones and twos and small denominations is likely to be diverted from the gilt-edged market.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how the administrative expenses compare with the administrative expenses of other forms of National Savings; and whether the use of the automatic machine is an economy?

I think the question of the automatic machine is one for my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General to answer. Of course, there is no other form of National Savings which has been so recently launched and on which, therefore, the initial publicity cost is so high.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that a great number of people who invest in this particular type of bond would never otherwise put their money into savings?

I am quite certain of that.

Can the Financial Secretary say how many right hon. and hon. Members have invested in Premium Bonds?

It would not be proper for those names to be discosed.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the value of the £ sterling in 1911 compared with today.

It is estimated that £1 in 1911 had the equivalent purchasing power of £4 7s. 7d. in May, 1957.

Is the Economic Secretary aware that so far the effects of the Chancellor's speech in the City yesterday have been, first, a further fall in the price of War Loan, and secondly, a rumour that there is to be an autumn Budget? Even if the Chancellor cannot prevent a fall in gilt-edged, can we at least have an assurance that there is not to be an autumn Budget?

The right hon. Gentleman must not confuse the interest rates with the credit of the country. When our long-term rates were 2½ per cent. our currency was weaker than ever it has been before or since.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman at least give a plain assurance that there will be no autumn Budget this year?

There will be no autumn Budget.

The supplementary question seems very remote from the value of the £ in 1911.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will consider the appointment of a Select Committee of the House or a Royal Commission to inquire into the subject of inflation and the cost of living.

No, Sir.

As the Economic Secretary does not know how to solve the problem of inflation and the high cost of living, and neither does the Chancellor, nor, apparently, the Prime Minister or the Government—and some others sitting beside me do not seem to know what the solution is either—would it not be desirable to refer it either to a Select Committee or to a Royal Commission in the hope that they will be able to provide a solution, or are the Government to do nothing about it?

As the right hon. Gentleman already knows, there is already a Royal Commission on Monetary Policy, which is a very important aspect of this problem, but I do not think that what he mentions is an aspect of policy which would be suitable for reference.

Is it, in any case, necessary to hold an inquiry of this nature, when everyone knows that one of the chief reasons for the rise in the cost of living is the failure of the nationalised industries, which produce less at increased cost? How can we as a nation ever solve this problem when power and transport, on which the production of everything depends, keep rising in price?

Can the Economic Secretary say whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer realises that this really is a most serious and grave matter? One can hardly open a newspaper without seeing signs of a steadily developing inflation which, if it continues, will put the country in a very serious condition. When are the Government going to take hold of the problem, together with the employers and the trade union leaders on a genuine basis of co-operation, instead of drifting along, with this inflationary process going on all the time, which will ultimately land the country in a state of ruin?

I do not think the right hon. Gentleman can have studied with attention my right hon. Friend's speech yesterday. He is also making an important speech tomorrow to the National Production Advisory Council.

What about the House?

But is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Chancellor's speech yesterday, while very grave in tone, produced no answer to the problem but represented a posture of complete abdication—unfortunately, not resignation? Is he aware, also, that the Radcliffe Committee—which, incidentally, is not a Royal Commission—is not likely to report for two years? Are we to have no economic or financial policy during that time?

We have an admirable economic and financial policy.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the speech of the Chancellor yesterday did not propound a solution, and he did not pretend that he had one; nor will his speech tomorrow or on any other day provide one. Speeches cannot solve the problem. In view of the fact that the Radcliffe Committee is lot looking all round the wicket on the subject of inflation and the cost of living, but is confining itself to monetary policy, would it not be wise—I appeal to the Prime Minister now—if he were to consider the appointment either of a Committee of this House, which would deal with the matter impartially, or a Royal Commission?

As I said before, I do not think either a Royal Commission or a Select Committee can really deal with these matters which cut across every possible line of Government policy.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury what reply he has given to the representations he has received from the West Hartlepool Corporation about the proposed closure of the tax office in the town.

The town clerk of West Hartlepool wrote to the regional collector on 5th July. The Board of Inland Revenue has today replied, explaining that the new arrangements will cause little inconvenience to residents of West Hartlepool, but will make a substantial contribution to economy and efficiency.

Is the Financial Secretary not aware that within five miles of this tax collector's office live more than 100,000 people? If this office closes it will mean that the nearest office will be either in Durham, twenty miles away, or in Stockton, twelve miles away. Does he expect even the decent citizens of West Hartlepool to pay their taxes if he makes it as awkward as possible for them to do so?

The vast majority, of course, pay them not by going to the collector's office but through the post. I would remind the hon. Gentleman that poundage-free postal and money orders are available for that purpose.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what arrangements exist for established civil servants to transfer to the Civil Service of another member of the Commonwealth.

United Kingdom Departments do all they can to meet Commonwealth requests for the loan of staff with particular experience and qualifications. These loans are usually for short periods. There are also arrangements for the interchange of staff employed on similar work in different countries, for example, between the Ministry of Labour in this country and its counterpart in Australia. In addition to these organised transfers, if an established civil servant obtains a post in the Civil Service of a Commonwealth country, he normally retains his claim to pension entitlement in respect of United Kingdom Civil Service.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some time ago the Home Secretary, answering on behalf of the Prime Minister, gave me to understand that some new arrangements were being made for broadening the service, and can he say what those new arrangements are? Is he aware that since then there appears to be considerable confusion between his Department, the Department of Commonwealth Relations and the Colonial Office on this matter, including lost correspondence between the three Departments?

I am not aware of any confusion. I will look at any case the right hon. Gentleman brings to my attention, but the arrangements about which I have informed the House have been increasingly used in recent years.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what long-term policy he proposes in order to secure enough candidates of the right quality for appointment to the administrative class of the Civil Service and the senior branch of the Foreign Service.

Applications this year are substantially greater than last, but it is still too early to gauge the effect of the recent improvements in pay and conditions, or of the new arrangements for publicising these careers among university students.

When the hon. Gentleman says that applications this year are substantially greater than they were last year, has he any prospect that the one-third of places which were not filled last year in the administrative class and the nearly one-half places not filled in the senior branch of the Foreign Service are likely to be filled in addition to the new vacancies this year? In spite of increased salaries, does he not consider that the root cause of the shortage, namely, competition from industry, is something which needs a broader long-term policy?

The relation between conditions and pay of the Civil Service and of outside industry has, of course, recently and most authoritatively been examined. As regards the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, the results of this year's competition are not yet available.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the fact that this year there were 226 candidates for 12 vacancies in the senior branch of the Foreign Service shows that there is really not very much to be anxious about?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what proposals have been made by the Government of the Fiji Islands for constitutional reform.

The Government of Fiji have the question of constitutional reform under review, but no proposals for change have been submitted to me.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is growing tension in the Colony because of the hostility of native-born Fijians to native-born Indians living in the Colony, and, as the matter can become aggravated, will he not make representations to his right hon. Friend that the Governor should be called upon urgently to produce the sort of scheme which would prevent this happening?

I do not think that is necessary. In the Governor's address to the Legislative Council in November last year, he said that he was carefully considering the resolution of the Council of Chiefs regarding the election of Fijian members, together with other aspects of electoral reform. My right hon. Friend still awaits specific proposals from the Governor.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on his discussions with Sir John Harding about the future of Cyprus.

The Governor arrived in this country on the 6th July for discussions on current matters relating to Cyprus. I have no further statement to make.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House when we can expect a further statement on the matter, and will he say whether, in the meantime, the question of direct consultation with representatives of the Cypriot people is under consideration, and also whether or not it is the intention that Sir John Harding shall return to Cyprus at the end of his leave?

With regard to the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, it is certainly the intention that Sir John Harding shall return to his post as soon as these meetings have come to an end, perhaps after a short spell of leave. The second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary does not arise directly from the Question on the Order Paper.

But may we take it that Sir John Harding's visit means that at last the Government are throwing off their unjustifiable slothfulness in this matter? Is the Under-Secretary aware, and is the Prime Minister, who seems to find this so amusing, aware, that in the opinion of the country the time is long overdue for the Government to take a new political initiative in order to further constitutional progress in Cyprus?

I have told the hon. Gentleman before that I simply do not accept that sort of statement. I have answered the Question on the Order Paper, and that is as far as I am prepared to go.

Will the Government undertake to inform this House fully of any new proposals they may have in mind for the future of Cyprus—judging from recent newspaper reports, it rather looks as if there may be some—and will the Government undertake to do that before there is any question at all of opening negotiations with foreign Powers?

My right hon. Friend will, of course, inform the House, as he always does, whenever there is any development of which the House would wish to be informed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) on how many occasions during the past six years he or his predecessors have given permission for telephone conversations to be tapped; for what purposes these conversations were intercepted; and what was the last date when such action was taken; and

(2) on how many occasions during the past six years he has given his permission for telephone calls of shop stewards and trade unionists connected with industrial disputes to be intercepted; and whether he will give the dates of such interceptions.

As I have made clear in previous replies, it has always been the practice, in the public interest, not to disclose the extent to which the power to issue warrants authorising the recording of telephone conversations has been used, or to divulge information as to its exercise in particular cases or classes of cases. I am not prepared to depart from that practice.

But can the Home Secretary give any logical reason why the details in these Questions cannot be given, and, further, can he say why he will not make a statement as to the last date on which such action was taken and on how many occasions trade union officials and executives have had their phones tapped? Surely, that does not interfere with the security of the State. Will he not answer those questions?

No, Sir. I am following precedents set by my predecessors in this matter, and I am not prepared to go further than my Answer.

Would the right hon. Gentleman nevertheless confirm that his statement does not in any way debar the Committee of Privy Councillors now considering this matter from publishing what they think to be necessary in this matter?

The Privy Councillors have very wide terms of reference, of which, I understand, they are taking full advantage. I would expect them to publish what they think is right.

On a point of order. Might I ask for your guidance in this matter, Mr. Speaker? I understand that the Government claim that their power to give these warrants and permissions and exercise this power is derived from a prerogative, and one assumes that that is a Royal prerogative, now exercised according to our constitutional practice on the advice of Ministers. The Ministers are responsible Ministers, responsible to this House for the advice which they give to the Crown. Is it, therefore, proper for a Minister exercising a prerogative power, when he is asked by a Member of the House what he has done, to refuse to say what he has done?

The rule with regard to Questions, laid down, I think, in Erskine May, is that matters in themselves secret cannot be the subject of Parliamentary Questions. If a matter is of itself secret, as this appears to be, it seems to be debarred as a subject for questioning.

With great respect, Mr. Speaker, that does not quite cover the point I raised. My hon. Friend the Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Lewis) has not asked for any secret information about the details of persons or occasions. He has asked for numbers, and only for numbers.

I think that hon. Member for Nelson and Colne, if he has a constitutional point of that complexity to raise, had better give me notice about it and I will try to do what I can with it. At the moment, it is not a point of order. If the hon. Member thinks that the Home Secretary is acting unjustifiably, he has his normal Parliamentary remedy.