asked the Minister of Works whether he is aware of the unhealthy and uncomfortable conditions in which members of the British Embassy staff in Saigon have to work; and whether, in view of the special climatic difficulties there, he will expedite the installation of air conditioning.

I agree that working conditions in the main Embassy offices are not satisfactory, and following a recent visit to Saigon by my officers an improvement scheme has been prepared. I hope that these improvements, including the provision of additional air-conditioning, will be made later this year.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that many of the officials in Saigon are working in very hot weather in compartments about the size of horse boxes and whether he will use all his influence to hurry up the improvement?

I know that officials of the Foreign Office are working under difficult conditions. Indeed, I said so. There is some doubt about the local electricity supply being adequate for purposes of the air conditioning but we regard the matter as one of urgency and hope to get it done in the course of the present year.

asked the Minister of Works why he prohibited the carrying of banners and distribution of literature at the Anglo-Scandinavian Youth Rally in Hyde Park, on Saturday, 13th July.

My Department's longstanding policy is to prohibit the free distribution of literature and to limit severely the display of banners in the Royal Parks Experience has shown that this is necessary in order to safeguard users of the park from disturbance.

Is the Minister aware that on this occasion the distribution of literature and the exhibition of banners were entirely prohibited and that this gathering of young people from Sweden and Germany were quite shocked to find that this was the case in the modern home of democracy? Will the right hon. Gentleman, therefore, look into the question again, because it is extraordinary that we should give this impression to people from abroad? Will he also give an assurance that under no circumstances will he interfere with the carrying of banners on May Day and similar traditional occasions?

The hon. Gentleman will have noticed that there is a certain inconsistency in the practice of my Department. Whereas banners are not allowed on normal occasions, on May Day banners are allowed. I have tried in vain to ascertain the reason for this inconsistency. I can only assume that it is due to an unwillingness to interere with the jamboree of the party opposite on May Day.

asked the Minister of Works what is the purpose of the penthouse being constructed in New Palace Yard; how much it will cost; and for how long it is estimated that it will be in use.

A temporary covered way is being provided whilst the first section of the New Palace Yard Arcade is being rebuilt. It is intended as a protection from dust and chips of stone. It will cost about £90 and will be required in its present position for at least a year.

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend for that information. Does that mean that the general work on the Arcade itself will be completed within that twelve months' period?

No, the work on the whole of the Arcade may take up to three years, but this section will take from twelve to eighteen months.

asked the Minister of Works what progress has been made with the arrangements for the memorial to the late Earl Lloyd George.

I have now received a letter from my right hon. Friend containing the recommendations of the Committee, of which he was chairman, appointed to advise on the memorial. The Committee has unanimously recommended that the memorial statue should be of stone and should be erected on a pedestal adjoining the Churchill Arch in the Inner Lobby. It further recommended the appointment of Sir Jacob Epstein as the sculptor. The Government have decided to accept these recommendations. I should like to take this opportunity to thank the Committee for the care with which it has carried out its task.

On what principle are the statues for the Central Lobby selected? Is it because of the historic nature of the person represented?

The procedure is that a Motion about the general policy of putting up a statue is moved in the House, and then it is the custom to appoint a special committee to recommend on the detailed arrangements.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of us are alarmed about the choice of artist? If the statue is to be anything like the Field Marshal Smuts Memorial, we shall not want any more.

In view of the horrible example of the Smuts Memorial, will the Minister have any preview of what Sir Jacob Epstein has in view?

I deprecate the way in which the supplementary questions about this artist have been put. The works of Sir Jacob Epstein, as is the case I suppose with all artists, vary in their artistic excellence. In six months' time we shall have an indication from the sculptor of what he intends to do.

As political or party considerations are not involved in this matter, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the choice of Sir Jacob Epstein will enjoy the confidence and support of many hon. Members on both sides of the House?

asked the Minister of Works whether he will put a new ornamental fountain in Hyde Park.

I have accepted an offer by the Constance Fund to provide a fountain in the form of a major work of sculpture. The Constance Fund was set up in 1944 through the generosity of the late Mrs. Constance Goetze. Its principal object is to improve public parks by the erection of works of ornamental sculpture, and the Fund has already presented two fountains to the Royal Parks. I should like to express my great appreciation of the Fund's latest gift to these Parks.

I propose that the new fountain should be placed in Hyde Park near the East Carriage Drive where the Dolphin Fountain now stands. This attractive gift is made at an appropriate moment in view of the changes which will be brought about by the new Park Lane Scheme. I shall use the Dolphin Fountain to replace the Swan Fountain in Regent's Park, which is in a very bad condition.

The Constance Fund proposes to hold an open competition for the design of the new fountain and will advertise its intention during the next few days.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that, apart from the fountains in Trafalgar Square, London is very deficient in fountains compared with other capital cities, and especially of good pieces of sculpture? Does he realise that the answer he has given today will give enormous satisfaction to thousands of Londoners?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. When one compares London with Rome, one realises that there is a great need for additional beautiful fountains.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will arrange for drawings of ancient monuments as they might have appeared in use to be displayed at the monuments in his care.

Yes, Sir. I recently arranged for Mr. Alan Sorrell to make drawings showing conjectural reconstructions of some of the monuments in my care. A copy of the drawing is or will be displayed at each of the monuments concerned, and postcard reproductions put on sale. The original drawings will be shown on suitable occasions. If, as I expect, these drawings prove popular, I shall commission others. The drawings will be displayed in the Tea Room tomorrow.

asked the Minister of Works the total estimated cost at current prices of the proposed new National Library building in Bloomsbury, including compensation payments; and when and where he proposes to start building.

On the question of cost, I cannot add to the reply which my predecessor gave the hon. Member on 20th April, 1956. Nor are the plans sufficiently advanced to enable me to forecast when building work will start.

Is the Minister saying that the general rise in prices since April, 1956, is not to be reflected in this estimate? Is he aware that uncertainty about this scheme is having a very bad effect on the property in the neighbourhood and that people are unwilling to do anything to buildings because of uncertainty about his plans?

There is very little uncertainty about it. All that is uncertain is when we shall begin building. It is the fixed intention of the Government to acquire the whole of this area which will be required for the extension of the British Museum.

asked the Minister of Works how the number of buildings held under requisition by his Department on 1st October, 1951, compares with the position at the latest convenient date.

The number of buildings held on requisition by my Department on 1st October, 1951, was 2,599. At 30th June, 1957, the number was 80.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that those figures will give widespread satisfaction? Can he give the House an assurance that he will not weary of well-doing in this respect?

We are continuing to de-requisition as and when we can. In a number of cases, we shall either take leases of these properties or purchase them. There is likely to be some delay in their acquisition, but we shall speed up matters as much as we can.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that the Helmsdale-Melvich road has been closed by the Sutherland County Council following damage and in some parts destruction by excessive weights carried by the main contractors' lorries and others employed by the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority and the British Transport Commission; and what action he intends taking to repair and reopen this Class I road.

My right hon. Friend understands that Sutherland County Council, as the responsible highway authority, has decided to carry out repairs which will enable this road to be reopened to vehicles of up to 8 tons weight.

Is it not the case that the county council is to spend about £500 on filling in craters? As this is only a patching operation, will my hon. Friend ask his right hon. Friend to consider whether the Government should reconstruct the road immediately, calling upon the nationalised bodies to pay their share in due course?

This is a Class 1 road and, therefore, the responsibility of the local authority. My right hon. Friend will do his best to assist in arranging for any assistance to be given by the British Transport Commission and the Atomic Energy Authority for the reconstruction of the road.

is it not the case that 1d. rate in the County of Sutherland will produce only £200? Is it not useless to expect a county so impoverished to bear the cost of this road?

Is the Minister not aware that the whole road system connecting Dounreay with the South is breaking down? Ought not these things to be examined at a very high level, because complete reconstruction is needed?

The A.9 main trunk road is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend, and any question of dealing with that would be a matter for him.

Does not the hon. Gentleman appreciate that these roads are being very badly damaged by the vehicular traffic occasioned by this project in the far North which has been put there by Her Majesty's Government? Her Majesty's Government must be concerned to maintain the state of the highways and cannot merely pass the buck to the local authorities.

My right hon. Friend and the local authorities concerned have done everything possible to ensure that the heavy vehicles running up to Dounreay use the A.9 road, and the A.9 road is being made fit for that purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the state of unclassified roads in Caithness and Sutherland; and if he will authorise grants under the Congested Districts (Scotland)Act, 1897, to enable one-fifth of these roads to be properly repaired this year and similar grants for repairs in each of the next four years.

My right hon. Friend has invited Caithness County Council to submit priority schemes for consideration for grant-aid, but he cannot at this stage undertake to authorise grant for a complete programme of such works.

What confidence can the local authorities of Caithness and Sutherland have in putting forward any more priorities? They did this for two years and every scheme they put forward has been turned down. Is it not the case that the roads in the Highlands are completely breaking down and disintegrating into the bog from which they were wrought and that something has to be done about it?

My hon. Friend is not quite correct in his denunciation, because Caithness County did press for a grant for one unclassified road after the imposition of capital restrictions in February, 1956, and that was approved in June last.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the extent of the shortage of radiographers in Scottish hospitals; and what representations have been made to him on this matter.

A survey made in May this year showed that the overall shortage of radiographers in Scottish hospitals was 5 per cent. My right hon. Friend has received letters on the matter from several hon. Members.

Since there is this overall shortage of 5 per cent., what steps is the Secretary of State going to take to ensure that that shortage will disappear? Is he aware that modern medical treatment and surgery is dependent to a great extent on the work of these radiographers? If this shortage continues and, indeed, becomes worse, will not the position be very serious for patients in Scotland?

I agree that the shortage of 5 per cent. is troublesome, but it is not alarming. The greatest percentage of deficiency is in the Eastern Region, and there the new training school at Dundee was opened in 1954 which, it is hoped, will improve the position.

Is not "troublesome" a strange word for the hon. Gentleman to use when referring to this shortage of 5 per cent.? Is he not aware that many medical people in Scotland regard it not as troublesome but as very serious indeed? Does the Secretary of State intend to do anything more than the Under-Secretary of State has mentioned?

I think the hon. Lady's fears are exaggerated. In any case, the shortage in Scotland is 5 per cent., whereas in England it is 16 per cent.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has yet considered the agreed plan for deer conservation and control which was submitted to him in October, 1956, by the Nature Conservancy and other interested parties; and if he will introduce a comprehensive Bill which will not only protect red deer in Scotland but will also protect agriculture.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave on 16th July to my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, East (Sir J. Henderson-Stewart). I am sending him a copy.

Is it not the case that the reply indicates that nine precious months have been wasted, that all the different divergent views have been agreed upon and that the meeting referred to is to take place during the long Recess? When will Parliament have an opportunity of getting down to this matter, because the slaughter of the hinds and their calves still goes on?

I think the main point that the answer of my right hon. Friend revealed was that this meeting is to take place as soon as 7th August.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now make a statement on the incidence of Strontium 90 on Scottish sites where observations are being conducted as a result of recent thermo-nuclear bomb tests.

As I informed the hon. Member on 14th May, measurements are being taken at Scottish sites. It may, however, be some time before the results are available.

Is the Minister aware that since that answer a number of hydrogen bomb tests have taken place and there is anxiety in Scotland to know as quickly as possible what effect this is having on the atmosphere in Scotland?

I am aware of that, but it must take some time before the results of these tests can be in any way assessed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from the Educational Institute of Scotland concerning the proposals for the reform of local government finance.

The Institute has represented that the proposed general grant system would restrict essential educational development and has urged the retention of the percentage grant system for educational expenditure.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what the reply will be to that particular representation? Is he aware that almost all educational organisations, not only in Scotland but throughout the United Kingdom, are opposed to these proposals, and are the Government quite determined, despite these protestations from all these organisations, to go on with them?

My right hon. Friend has carefully considered the representations made but cannot share the view that the general grant will prejudice educational development in Scotland. Indeed, paragraphs 7 and 9 of the Scottish White Paper indicated clearly that adequate provision will be made in the general grant for the maintenance of the educational service.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that his right hon. Friend, in reply to a Question which I put down a fortnight ago, said that he would have a meeting with the Educational Institute of Scotland to discuss this very important matter? Is he now telling us that his right hon. Friend has pre-judged the decision by making a decision before the meeting is held?

It was my noble Friend the Minister of State who met representatives of the Institute on 15th July, and I have been asked what reply was given to them. My noble Friend listened to their representations and, as I said, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is considering their representations.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has yet discussed with the local authority associations the findings of the departmental committee appointed to review all aspects of local government finance; and with what result.

My right hon. Friend and my noble Friend the Minister of State had three meetings with the principal Scottish local authority associations to discuss the Government's proposals between the announcement in Parliament on 12th February and the publication of the White Paper on 10th July. There have also been meetings between officials of my Department and local authority officials. All these meetings were confidential. My right hon. Friend has since asked the associations for their views on the White Paper, and he waits their replies.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Scottish local authorities are disturbed by the fact that no committee has ever reviewed the problem of Scottish local authority finance and that all that happened was that one or two officials were sent to Whitehall to be shown the English formula with a view to adapting it to Scotland with one or two minor adjustments?

I cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman that the Scottish local authorities had not just the same treatment in this matter as the English local authorities.

Has there been any review of local government finance in Scotland by a responsible committee?

If by "responsible committee" the hon. Gentleman means a committee of local officials—

Not necessarily officials, but any other responsible persons. Was there a review of the relationship between the Government and local authorities in Scotland by any committee?

Of course; by my right hon. Friend and his officials.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that hospital wards are in danger of being closed in West Fife as a result of staff shortages; and what steps he intends to take to avoid such closures.

My right hon. Friend presumes the hon. Member refers to the Dunfermline and West Fife Hospital where there is a temporary shortage of medical staff. Prompt action has been taken to overcome the difficulties and my right hon. Friend assures the hon. Member there is no question of wards being closed.

Does that mean that this problem is troublesome, too? Has the hon. Gentleman completed the review of the staff position in the West Fife Hospital, which he undertook to make some little while ago? Is he quite satisfied that the position will not get worse in the immediate future?

I am satisfied that the position will not get worse in the immediate future. As regards the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I would ask him to put down a separate Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps have been taken to call the attention of all personnel in educational establishments to the relationship between lung cancer and smoking.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what advice he is giving to education authorities on methods for reducing the amount of cigarette smoking among schoolchildren.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements are being made to bring home to schoolchildren the dangerous possibilities of cigarette smoking.

Copies of the statement made in the House on 27th June by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health and of the special Report of the Medical Research Council have been sent to all education authorities and other school managers with a request that they should ensure that the risks attached to smoking, and especially to the heavy smoking of cigarettes, are stressed in the course of health instruction. I have no doubt that before the schools reopen all concerned will consider how these risks can most effectively be brought home to pupils.

Is the Minister not prepared to take additional steps, apart from the ones he mentioned, and would he not be prepared that the Department itself should be responsible for the financing of some of the additional propaganda which ought to be undertaken on this very important subject?

With regard to the second part of the supplementary question, we will consider that. It has been decided that it should be left to education authorities to decide how to persuade children of the reality of the danger and to the local health authorities to make the danger known to the general public. With regard to the special measures used, I would inform the hon. Gentleman that a film on lung cancer has been shown to senior pupils of at least one secondary school.

I thank the Minister for what he has done. But, in view of the admitted growth of cigarette smoking among school children, would he say what steps he is taking to direct the attention of the appropriate authorities to the need for a more vigorous enforcement of the law regarding the sale of cigarettes to young persons?

This is one of the matters that will be considered.

The Minister referred to the film shown to one secondary school class. Are the Government going to make this available throughout Scotland? That film, I understand, was very successful in Edinburgh. It would seem that the most effective way of bringing to the notice of children the danger of lung cancer is by letting them see some of the effects. The French have adopted this kind of education for children with considerable success, and I think that the Government might stimulate it a little more, because some local authorities may be backward in this matter.

I share the right hon. Gentleman's view, and I hope that my answer will stimulate local authorities to ask for this film.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of county councils which have introduced byelaws under Section 300 of the Local Government (Scotland)Act, 1947, to deal with prohibition of litter in public places.

Thirteen.

In view of the fact that only thirteen counties out of thirty-three have adopted anti-litter byelaws under the Local Government (Scotland)Act, will not the Joint Parliamentary Secretary encourage the remaining twenty to do so in order to improve local conditions?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his Question and for his supplementary question. Last year the number increased from ten to thirteen, and I hope that his Question will be given sufficient publicity to stimulate action among the remaining counties.

I want the Secretary of State to take action by impressing on the local authorities the desirability of introducing byelaws under Section 300 of the Act.

I will bring that request to the notice of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of accidents in Scotland from falls in institutions in 1956 and the percentages of these to the total home accidents from falls in that year.

I regret that the information is not available.

Will the Under-Secretary of State take steps to make it available, because highly polished floors in institutions are said to lead to a great number of accidents ending in death?

As the hon. Lady knows, we are just beginning to get to grips with this important problem. The circular which we have just sent to local authorities will, I hope, provide valuable information of this type in due course. I will try to do what the hon. Lady suggests.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by how much and as what percentage of the sums for which authorisation was sought local authority expenditure on public cleansing was curtailed by him in 1956 on account of the restriction on capital expenditure.

Applications to incur expenditure on capital works in connection with public cleansing amounting to £163,585, or 35 per cent. of the total, were refused in 1956, but of these. applications amounting to £75,790 were authorised in 1957, so reducing the percentage of refusals from 35 to 19.

Does the Joint Under-Secretary appreciate that we need a little more than byelaws in relation to public health, but that if authorisation is forthcoming for that expenditure we might see some improvement? If the Secretary of State walked around in our large towns and seaside resorts, he would find there was very great need for improvement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how far he is consulted about appointments from Scotland to the Arts Council.

The Royal Charter incorporating the Arts Council of Great Britain provides that all members of the Council are to be appointed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer after consultation with the Minister of Education and the Secretary of State for Scotland. My right hon. Friend is fully consulted, therefore, about all appointments to the Arts Council, including those from Scotland.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware of the dissatisfaction in Scotland about the composition of the Scottish Committee of the Arts Council, and that complaints have been made both by Equity, which is the actors' association, and the Scottish T.U.C.? Is he further aware that my information is that the Scottish Committee of the Arts Council is not fully utilising the funds made available to it by Parliament?

The second part of that supplementary question is another question. On the first part, the Committee is appointed by the Arts Council, with the consent of the Secretary of State for Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will appoint a committee to inquire into the state of the living theatre in Scotland, with a view to determining the extent to which its maintenance should be assisted from public funds.

No, Sir.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that a thriving repertory movement throughout Scotland is very important to the vitality of our national culture? Is he aware that in Dundee we are doing our best to keep the repertory theatre alive and under our own control? Would he talk to the Scottish Committee of the Arts Council to see if it could make a special grant to enable us to do so?

My right hon. Friend has every sympathy with the repertory movement in Scotland. The Scottish Committee of the Arts Council has this problem of theatres very much in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the scientific investigation, set up in 1948, into the causes of Scotland's high tuberculosis incidence is still pursuing its investigations; and when he expects further reports.

The task of the Committee on Tuberculosis, set up by the Scottish Health Services Council in 1948, was completed on the publication of its Report in 1951.

Would not the Minister agree that the problem of tuberculosis in Scotland is not yet eliminated and that the committee should pursue its investigations to learn the lessons of the steps taken in 1948?

We have examined this matter. The truth is that every possible agency is now actively engaged in fighting T.B. and the results speak for themselves. In 1948, when the right hon. Gentleman set up the committee, there were 3,415 deaths from T.B.; the provisional figure for 1956 is 714. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that if there is anything else we can do we shall do it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many persons have been X-rayed in the present community survey campaigns in Scotland.

About 883,000.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1)how many persons have been found to be suffering from active pulmonary tuberculosis in the recent community survey campaigns; and how many were found to be in need of continued observation and assessment;

(2)how many persons have been admitted to hospital for treatment for active pulmonary tuberculosis as a result of the recent community surveys; and how many are receiving domiciliary treatment.

Information available so far shows that in the five areas for which figures have been received 2,297 active cases were found, and 1,173 have been admitted to hospital. Particulars of the number in need of further observation and the number receiving domiciliary treatment are not yet available.

Will the Minister agree that it is very important to have those figures for the assessment of future progress of the campaign? Can he give an indication of what proportion of the 1,124 so far unclassified are carriers? Is it not true that not all the T.B. allowances and social welfare facilities are being made available to those people?

I would ask the hon. Member to put that down as a separate Question. I am not at all sure that he is right in suggesting that any person in Scotland is being denied facilities.

Is the Minister aware that in my constituency a carrier has been refused any treatment whatsoever and that no provision is made for him in the form of a new house?

I would ask the hon. Member to bring that to my notice immediately.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements are being made by the Nature Conservancy Trust to enable the public to land and visit the Island of Rhum.

My right hon. Friend understands that the Nature Conservancy are issuing a statement about public access to the Island of Rhum, and he has asked the Conservancy to send a copy to the right hon. Member.

Is not this matter of more public interest than just to send me a copy? Is the Nature Conservancy now going to allow, under some sort of regulations, access to the Island of Rhum? Will it be made known to the public generally how they may visit this island and under what conditions?

I do not think it would be right for me to anticipate the issue of a statement which will be given to the Press. In view of the public interest in this matter, I am certain it will be given very full publicity.

Are we to understand that shepherds are to be removed from this island? A whole lot of public money is to be spent, and I understand that a thousand breeding ewes and cattle are to be removed. If so, is that not quite scandalous?

If my hon. Friend wants information on that point, which is quite a different one, perhaps he will put down a Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the average retail price of lettuces and tomatoes, to date, for this year; and the average price of these for the same period of last year.

My right hon. Friend regrets that information is not available from which average retail prices for these commodities could be deduced.

Will the Joint Undersecretary tell his right hon. Friend that the prices are far too high, very much higher than they are in London'? Is he aware that before these lettuces were nationalised they used to be sold for Id. and now they are still not nationalised they have gone up by 1,400 per cent?

I am obliged to the hon. Lady for her information.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that when the country was overrun by rabbits lettuces used to be sold for about 3d. a time but that now we have got rid of the rabbits which used to eat lettuces they are 1s. each?

Perhaps they ate only the bad lettuce; I do not know.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements are operated by the Scottish Ambulance Service to ensure that where stretcher cases are dealt with it is never necessary for the ambulance driver to knock up neighbours of the patient in order to find the additional stretcher bearer.

Where is can be arranged an attendant accompanies the driver for stretcher cases, but it is sometimes necessary to depend on the good will of neighbours, which is, I am glad to say, traditionally forthcoming.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that, except in some of the larger towns of Scotland—not all of them—there is no ambulance attendant and that when a vehicle goes out the driver must therefore seek assistance if someone has to be carried? Is he aware that in the recent accident at Blackford in Perthshire, when the ambulance arrived 1 hour and 10 minutes after it was asked for, two persons had been killed and two injured and the ambulance had only one driver and no attendant?

I am aware of the position, but we must spend our money the best way we can in the National Health Service. The cost of providing double manning in all cases would be prohibitive and out of all proportion to the benefit.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is no question of double manning being provided in all cases, but that there are instances in which attendants are required? In most parts of the country there are no attendants, and I am making an appeal that attendants should become a regular part of the service.

The Joint Committee responsible for all the ambulance services in Scotland has looked at this matter most carefully, and I really believe the present policy is the best in the light of all the circumstances.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that very often the need is obvious to hospital committees, but that when it becomes necessary to spare people who really should be working in the hospitals to go out with ambulances it is casting a burden on the hospitals?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what first-aid qualifications are considered desirable among Scottish ambulance crews; and what proportion of existing crews already have those qualifications.

Drivers and attendants in the employment of the Joint Central Committee are expected to hold a recognised first-aid certificate. They are those granted by—the St. Andrew's Ambulance Association, the British Red Cross Society, the St. John Ambulance Association, London County Council and Her Majesty's Forces. All but 25 of the present strength of 445 have such a qualification.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that he has spoken of those who are in the direct employment of the ambulance service, but that the great bulk of ambulance work in the country districts is contracted out, in which case there is no such obligation? Is he aware that those services send out an ambulance with a single driver to an accident, a driver who may have no first-aid qualifications whatever?

The firms contracting with the Joint Central Committee are expected to encourage their ambulance drivers and attendants to qualify in first-aid. Most of those drivers are understood to be qualified. I regret that I cannot give the hon. Member any figures because his Question does not refer to figures, but this is a matter at which I undertake to look most carefully.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the fact that 85 per cent. of Scottish pupils leave school before reaching their sixteenth year, he will consider introducing some form of external school leaving examination for which those children may be submitted.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend considers that the arguments on which the Advisory Council based its recommendation in its Report on Secondary Education that no such examination should be introduced are still valid.

Does not the Under-Secretary agree that with 85 per cent. of the children leaving school before reaching the age of 16, there is no such thing as an educational aim towards which either they or their teachers can direct their energies? Does he agree that there are far too many alarming reports of children wasting their last year at school marking time until they leave school?

We debated this matter on Scottish Estimates upstairs, but I would remind the hon. Member that that Report suggested that such an examination as he recommends would tend to a sterile uniformity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when a start is likely to be made in the building of the first health clinic in Glasgow.

The first post-war comprehensive health clinic in Glasgow was completed in 1955 at Pollok. I understand that Glasgow Corporation propose shortly to invite tenders for a similar clinic at Drumchapel.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State aware that it is over twelve months since his Department asked which of these clinics was required first and was told Drumchapel? Is he aware that nothing further has been done since?

I can assure the hon. Lady that Glasgow Corporation is moving ahead in this matter as fast as it possibly can.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what has been the reduction in the number of schoolchildren in Glasgow taking school meals since the recent increase in the cost of school meals.

The increase of 2d. per meal took effect from 1st April, 1957. In May, 1957, the number of school children in Glasgow taking school meals was 49,373. This represented a decrease of 9,158, or 15·6 per cent., on the numbers taking meals in September, 1956.

Does not the Minister think that this decrease is clue to the increase in the cost?

These school meals still represent extremely good value for money, and the vast majority of parents recognise that. Moreover, the percentage of those taking school meals in Glasgow who get them free, comparing September, 1956 with May, 1957, shows an increase from 19·1 per cent, to 24·7 per cent.

Why is that?

Will the hon. Member pay attention to the 9,000 who are not now taking these school meals? Has he any reason to believe that they are getting a decent meal at home, or does he think, as some of us think, that they are more likely to be taking a midday meal of bread and jam? Are the Government proud of that?

No. The experience after a previous increase under both Governments was that there was a decline in the numbers taking the school meals but that after a certain lapse of time the numbers again recovered to near their previous level.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the present functions of the office of Lord Lyon King-of-Arms.

Lyon King-of-Arms is Her Majesty's principal officer of arms in Scotland. His duties relate to the granting and recording of arms and the investigation and decision of a wide range of questions relating to heraldry, genealogy and precedence. He is concerned with royal and public ceremonial in Scotland and advises the Secretary of State on heraldic, ceremonial and cognate matters. He is also Secretary of the Order of the Thistle.

In view of the seemingly important ceremonial duties of this officer, could the Minister say whether his salary is in keeping with the duties which he has to perform? Is he aware that according to reports this officer is beginning to interfere with local authorities? Does that come within his duties?

This is a part-time office and the salary attached to it is £1,200. Answering the second part of the question, on the matter which I think the hon. Member has in mind, I understand that the Lord Lyon is writing to the Convention of Royal Burghs.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by how much the estimated general grant for Glasgow provided for in the new arrangements for financing local government will vary from the total of grants paid in 1956–57.

It is estimated that the hypothetical figure of general grant for Glasgow quoted in the White Paper is about £540,000 less than the amount of the specific grants which it is proposed to absorb in the general grant. This loss will, however, be off-set by the proceeds of re-rating, from which I estimate that, on 1956–57 rate poundages, Glasgow will benefit by about £520,000. Other factors also enter into the comparison.

I take it that the answer means that Glasgow will lose to the extent of £20,000. Is that the outcome of this new arrangement? What consultations were held with the Corporation of Glasgow before these new arrangements were announced, which are to be brought into force? Can the Minister give us the Corporation's view in the matter?

I cannot give the hon. Member the Corporation's view. The arrangements have not yet been brought into force. The calculations which I have given the hon. Member show a loss of £20,000 on an amount of nearly £8 million, but there are other factors which enter into the comparison, such as the fact that the general grant is paid 100 per cent. each year while the present grants are paid 90 per cent. each year. It would be unwise to make the assumption that Glasgow will lose anything at all from the transaction.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made in establishing a system of cancer registration in each of the hospital regions; what are the remaining difficulties; and what proposals the Health Services Council have made to him to overcome them.

A system of cancer registration continues to operate effectively in two of the five regions. The difficulties in other Regions relate mainly to the methods of collecting data. The Cancer Committee of the Scottish Health Services Council have recommended a detailed organisation for cancer services including ways of securing accurate registration in all regions, and a memorandum based on these recommendations will be issued very shortly. My right hon. Friend will send a copy to the hon. Member.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State not aware that this is substantially the same answer as that which he gave me a year ago? Can he not cut out some of the memoranda and get on with the job?

Is the hon. Member aware that his supplementary is the same as that which he asked me nearly a year ago? This is a difficult problem, as he knows, and that is why the Scottish Health Services Council was asked to report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many firms, up to date, have agreed to establish units of industry at the new town of Cumbernauld; and if he will make a statement of future prospects.

A factory for one firm, with an employment potential of over 3,000, is already being built in the new town and the development corporation is in touch with a number of other interested firms. Cumbernauld offers many advantages to industry and should prove attractive in particular, to firms to be displaced from redevelopment areas in Glasgow. The development Corporation is fully alive to to its opportunities in this field and will shortly be having discussions with Glasgow Corporation about the reception of such firms.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has now received the views of all the interested organisations in respect of Command Paper No. 9623 relating to mental illness and mental deficiency in Scotland; and whether he has now decided to amend the law.

My right hon. Friend has not yet received the views of all the interested organisations. He has just asked them, however, to let him have their views at an early date not only on this Command Paper but also on the application to Scotland of the Report of the Royal Commission on Mental Health and Mental Deficiency in England and Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what official instructions he gave one of the Under-Secretaries of State for his meeting with the directors of the Dumfries and Galloway Standard.

None, Sir.

But is not the Secretary of State aware that one of his Under-Secretaries had a meeting with the directors of the Dumfries and Galloway Standard, at which he made it clear that the editor had been writing editorials criticising Her Majesty's Government, and that, as a result of that meeting, he editor was sacked? [HON. MEMBERS: "Shame."] Is the Secretary of State saying that an Under-Secretary of State, a Minister in Her Majesty's Government, complained to a board of directors, as a result of which complaint the editor was sacked, yet the Under-Secretary got no instructions about the meeting with the board of directors?

I do not accept the implications of what the hon. Gen leman has been saying, but I am satisfied that the meeting referred to was not fended by my hon. Friend in his capacity as a Minister. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] It would not, therefore, be proper for me to make any comment on what took place.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his answer is entirely unsatisfactory? How can he possibly claim that his Under-Secretary can divest himself, on a hotly political issue, of his position as Minister? Does the Secretary of State deny the facts in this case, namely, that the Under-Secretary did, in fact, go to this meeting of directors that he did protest against the editorials written by the editor of this paper; that, in consequence of his protest, the editor was sacked? How can he possibly defend ac ion of this kind, which is entirely contrary to the precedents and traditions of the responsibility of Ministers in such issues?

Really, Mr. Speaker, we all go to our constituencies and conduct our own operations as Members of Parliament. I would not begin to think that a Secretary of State can have a proper knowledge of what an hon. Member does in his own constituency—[Interruption.] I am not responsible—I may have knowledge, but I am not responsible for it, and I have nothing to add to what I have said.

If the right hon. Gentleman divests himself of responsibility, may I ask the Prime Minister? I am sure that he will appreciate that the behaviour of Ministers in a matter of this kind is something which concerns the whole Government, and himself as Prime Minister. May I ask the Prime Minister to look into this and report to the House in due course?

Answer.

The right hon. Gentleman asks me to look into the matter, and I will, of course, inform the House.

rose——

It is past time.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to gave notice that I will raise it on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, for the purposes of comparison, he will state as on the latest convenient date, the annual charges debited to the housing revenue account of a local authority in respect of a four-apartment house built and provided with money borrowed from the Public Works Loan Board for 60 years, and similar loan charges in respect of a similar house as on the corresponding date in each year since, and including, 1951.

Since the Answer contains a number of figures, I shall, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that I assume that the figures he will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT will reveal that the annual cost has doubled since 1951? Will he now agree that this is perhaps the main element which has caused the chaotic condition of local-government finance?

The cost has not quite doubled, and I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. If local authorities were to pool their housing charges and repayments and charge reasonable rents, they would find that today's high cost is no deterrent to their finances.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the future rent policy of the Scottish Special Housing Association.

My right hon. Friend is now considering proposals for revision of the rents of houses belonging to the Scottish Special Housing Association which the association has submitted to him. My right hon. Friend will advise the Association of his decision as soon as possible.

Will the hon. Gentleman inform the Secretary of State that we are in no great hurry to deal with these proposals? Might I make the suggestion that we discuss them here before he attempts to implement them?

rose—

Can I not get an answer from the Joint Under-Secretary, Mr. Speaker?s

I could not commit my hon. Friend on the subject of how this matter will be discussed. The hon. Member should bear in mind that variations in the rents of Scottish Special Housing Association houses do not require the approval of this House.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the number of local authority houses for which authorisation has been sought this year, to the latest available date, and the corresponding figures for 1955 and 1956.

Tenders for 8,474 houses were approved between 1st January and 31st May, 1957. The corresponding figures for 1956 and 1955 were 12,431 and 9,484, respectively.

Does the Joint Under-Secretary of State think that the decrease is troublesome, or alarming?

In our view, this decrease is entirely normal as local authorities come to the end of their housing programmes.

May I then take it that the reduction of nearly 4,000, or nearly 33 per cent., in the tenders as compared with two years ago causes satisfaction to the Scottish Office?

What about ten years ago?