asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will give favourable consideration to the request of the Slough Corporation for authority to introduce a bye-law to ensure that all dogs on public thoroughfares should be on leads, thus making a contribution to road safety.

We will, of course, consider any proposal we may receive from the Borough Council of Slough, but I would draw the attention of my hon. Friend to the replies given to the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) on 10th April.

When he considers this matter, will the Minister take into account the very large number of human lives that are lost every year as a result of dogs straying on the roads and not being under proper control?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will take powers to establish a recognised instructor's certificate to be issued to persons requiring them and make it a necessary qualification for the opening of driving schools.

As my right hon. Friend indicated in the Answer he gave to a similar Question by the hon. Member for Hillsborough (Mr. G. Darling) on 17th July, we propose to review the whole question of the standards of driving tuition when we receive a report on driving standards from the Departmental Committee on Road Safety.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it is possible for a man to fail his test on several occasions and then pass, and a day or two after passing the examination he is able to open a driving school? Does he not think that a man should have more training than that before being able to open a driving school?

That is one of the aspects that we are considering. One must also remember that parents often give instruction to their children when they start driving, and we do not want to interfere too much with domestic habits of that kind.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to what extent it is his policy to approve fare increases where the undertaking already anticipates a profit.

Fare increases do not come to me for approval except when there is an appeal from the Traffic Commissioners' decision on bus fares outside London. In such cases I do not approve increases which will enable the undertaking to earn more than will serve to maintain its efficiency and give a reasonable return on its capital.

Does my right hon. Friend mean by that Answer that if a company has had fares approved by the Traffic Commissioners when it is already anticipating a profit, and there is an appeal, he will negative the decision of the Traffic Commissioners to increase the fares?

I certainly should not like to commit myself to that. All these cases have to be judged on their merits. If my hon. Friend has a case in mind, I should be pleased to look at it.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many local authorities have adopted the practice of painting "Halt" on the road surface adjacent to halt signs; and to what extent it has proved of value in reducing the accident rate.

The word "Halt" painted on the carriageway is not a prescribed traffic sign, and there are no figures as to the extent of its use. I have, however, asked the Road Research Laboratory to compare results where it is used with those where it is not.

Is the Minister aware that, where it has been used, it has been found that the accident rate has been lowered, presumably because drivers who may miss the conventional sign cannot very well miss a large painted sign? Will he pursue his inquiries, and if it is found that this reduces the accident rate will he commend it as a general practice to local authorities?

Depending on the answer that we get from the Road Research Laboratory, the answer is "Yes".

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, for the general convenience of road users, not least those coming from abroad, he will make it the rule that where there is a sign indicating a town, the mileage to that town shall also be shown.

The new Regulations, which came into force last March, permit the mileage to be shown on several classes of signs. I hope the responsible highway authorities will bring their signs up to date in this respect as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) if, when the 40 miles per hour speed limit comes into operation, he will restrict it to 20 miles per hour within a reasonable radius of schools at such times as the local police desire;

(2) if, when the 40 miles per hour speed limit comes into operation, he will restrict it to 20 miles per hour through industrial centres during the peak periods when most people are present.

The 40 miles an hour speed limit is being introduced only on suitable lengths of busy main roads in the London Traffic Area. The presence of schools and factories is taken fully into account. I do not think a temporary 20 miles an hour speed limit during limited times of the day would be practicable or enforceable.

While I do not desire to tie the Minister down to exact figures, will he ask his right hon. Friend to reconsider that reply in regard to the industrial areas in particular? Will he also ask him whether he has ever stood on a main road outside a school and watched children coming away from the school, and, if not, before he makes up his mind finally, will he do that?

I can assure the House that we are fully conscious of the dangers to which the hon. Gentleman referred. The main criterion adopted in putting forward lists of roads in London suitable for the 40 m.p.h. speed limit is that some restriction of speed is necesary on the roads in question but a speed limit of 30 m.p.h. either is or would be inappropriate or unenforceable. The 40 m.p.h. limit is of special use in certain circumstances, either where there is no limit at all at present or where there is a 30 m.p.h. limit which is not enforceable.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will prohibit parking of all vehicles on main roads at peak periods in industrial centres.

From 1st December this year, responsibility for all such prohibitions will rest with the local authorities concerned, except in the case of trunk roads. We are always ready to consider on their merits any proposals for restrictions on parking on trunk roads.

Wherever the local authorities decide to apply a policy of this kind and any difference arises, will they be able to depend on the support of the hon. Gentleman?

Depending on the merits of the case.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, in substitution for the unofficial translation of the 1947 edition of the Actes du Rhin which he has supplied to the law libraries to enable lawyers and others to comprehend the provisions of Section 6 of the Administration of Justice Act. 1956, he will provide an unofficial translation of the 1957 edition of the Actes du Rhin to the same libraries.

The Actes du Rhin is an unofficial publication, and my right hon. Friend sees no reason to have a special translation of the 1957 edition made.

In those circumstances, why was the Minister so kind as to supply an unofficial translation of the 1947 edition? Will he ask my right hon. Friend to think again, because it is quite impossible for anyone to understand the restriction of Section 6 of the Administration of Justice Act, 1956, unless my right hon. Friend provides a translation, or unless the lawyer happens to be able to speak French?

My hon. Friend will be aware that the 1947 edition was supplied to him in unofficial translation as a matter of courtesy to him and those interested in this matter. He will also be aware that the text of the Rhine Convention is not altered in the 1957 version and my right hon. Friend cannot sponsor a further unofficial translation of any additional matters in the new version.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, in order to make progress in increasing the productive effort of Tyneside, thus reducing costs, he will now agree to authorising the preliminary work on the Tyne Tunnel project.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) if he will now state the approximate date when the Tyne Tunnel project will commence;

(2) if he will now grant the Tyne Tunnel Joint Committee permission to commence the preparatory work including the construction of the approach roads to the Tyne Tunnel.

I am not at this moment in a position to say when I shall be able to authorise this scheme, including the preparatory work.

Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that the decision will not be very long delayed? Will he bear in mind that the North deserves a thoroughly good break, and will he give us one?

I will certainly do my best to come to a decision on this matter as quickly as possible, but it has been very difficult to fit it into my programme.

Why cannot the Minister give us some idea when the project will be commenced? He must know the phasing of his programme over the next three years. Can he tell us whether the scheme will be included within the next two or three years? Furthermore, does he realise that if he gave permission for the approach roads to be commenced, this would be looked upon as a token of good faith in the North-East, which is becoming cynical about the matter?

It is not becoming cynical.

I am very sorry that the hon. Gentleman says that the North-East is becoming cynical. If he presses me for an answer at this moment, I can always reply "No." My position is that I am trying hard to fit the scheme in, but if I am pressed to give an answer at the moment, it will be "No."

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation, in view of the fact that the proposed new motorway to the Channel ports is intended to consist primarily of the Medway Towns bypass, which is to be a motorway 25 miles long, what other plans are contemplated to make A.2 between London and Dover into a motorway; and whether it is intended that after the construction of the Medway by-pass the A.2 route should provide better facilities for road traffic between London and Dover than A.20.

A number of other improvements are in progress on A.2, or will start soon. This work will not be at the expense of A.20, where major improvements are also being effected.

Cannot the Minister provide a much more satisfactory explanation of the reason why this great motorway, to which he referred with such élan and publicity at the Conservative gathering, has dwindled down to a mere routine job of two by-passes?

That is nonsense. As the hon. Gentleman's party made no progress on the road programme at all, it does not lie with him to criticise me when I am making some.

Does the Minister really suggest that present conditions for road-making are similar to those that existed in this country a few years after the war?

I say again that the party opposite made no progress on the road programme at all, and I am making a great deal.

In view of the unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what consultation he has had with the interested local authorities on the proposed Yorkshire motor road.

Surveys preparatory to a draft scheme under the Special Roads Act, 1949, are being referred to appropriate county councils as the surveys are completed. Certain other local authorities will be consulted before the draft scheme is published.

Can the Minister give any indication when there is a likelihood of work starting on this proposed road?

I am very anxious to get on with it, but, as the hon. Gentleman knows, there is a great difficulty in Leicestershire over the line of the road. As soon as I can clear that up, I hope that the scheme will go forward.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what recent developments there have been concerning the reconstruction of the Methley Water Bridge in Yorkshire.

We have told the West Riding County Council that we are prepared to examine a scheme for the reconstruction of the bridge and that when it can be included in the road programme my right hon. Friend will be willing to make a grant towards it.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he has now considered the practicability of constructing a short length of dual carriageway at Grendon in the County of Warwick.

Yes, Sir, but as dual carriageways here would mean serious interference with property, we are also considering the possibility of a different layout.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will consider how to improve the safety of the A.5 road at the Royal Red Gate at Caldecote in the County of Warwick.

Yes, Sir. We are doing so.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps he has now taken in respect of the construction of a by-pass at Atherstone in the County of Warwick; and what are the next steps to be taken.

We are waiting for the agent authority, the Warwickshire County Council to send us revised plans. On receipt of these we shall consider publishing a draft Order for this by-pass.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will arrange to have the carriageway widened on New Kings Road, Fulham, S.W.6, at the junction of Parsons Green, to allow an easier flow of traffic.

This is a matter for the London County Council in the first instance.

This is an example of a place where traffic running in three or four lanes is thrown into two lanes. Would my hon. Friend try to encourage the L.C.C. to look at this point to see whether widening there cannot be taken in hand quickly in order to free the traffic flow?

I rather think that the L.C.C. is aware of it.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will now state a definite date when the widening of the Manchester-Chester trunk road in the Edge Lane-King Street area of Stretford will begin.

I cannot yet say when it will be possible to include this scheme in the roads programme.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, by announcing this plan so long ahead and not taking a definite decision, he is causing very considerable hardship to the people who will be affected by this scheme? Is he also aware that this scheme will necessitate a great deal of redevelopment in the area and that the fixing of a definite date is urgent? Can he say when that date will be fixed?

I am afraid that I cannot go beyond what I told my hon. Friend in a letter which I sent to him earlier this year. This problem of what is now called "planning blight"—on properties in an area to be developed—is a general one and is now being examined urgently by a Government Inter-Departmental Committee. I am afraid I cannot give a more helpful answer than that on this occasion.

I know that it is a difficult problem for the Ministry to have to set these things ahead, but this is causing very considerable hardship to people whose business premises are on this road. Also it is causing a hold-up in the development of the area. Surely it is possible for the Minister to give us some date in the next year or two when this can be undertaken?

I will look at the matter again, but it is difficult to go much further than I have already gone.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when the route for a future road from London to Dover-Folkestone was surveyed, decided on, and protected from encroachment.

Proposals for the Medway Towns motor road were first considered and the route surveyed before the last war. Since the war further survey work has been carried out in connection with the revisions of the route. I shall advertise a draft scheme under the Special Roads Act, 1949, next week and when this scheme has been made the route will be fixed and protected from encroachment. It is at present being protected at my request by the Kent County Council under its general planning powers.

Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that, wherever it is obvious that a main road or trunk road is likely ultimately to be built, safeguard from encroachment is already in existence in order to economise on future spending?

It is a very difficult problem. I am very worried about problem sterilising property when the road is not to be built for a considerable time in the future. We are examining the whole problem, and subject to that I certainly agree that my hon. Friend is quite right. We are trying to follow that procedure.

May I inform the Minister that my constituents are glad that the Minister has decided at last that the road should go ahead, and I hope that nothing will be done to hold up this procedure?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will make a statement on the increasing congestion of traffic at Torpoint Ferry.

The Cornwall County Council, which is responsible for this ferry, has informed me that it plans to replace two of the floating bridges and increase the carrying capacity by about 40 per cent.

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary see that there is no hold-up in his Ministry in the provision of these two new bridges, as the position at the ferry is chaotic and has been estimated to cost commercial road traffic at least £200,000 a year?

I know that the hold-up at the ferry is considerable. At the moment we are making a technical examination of the proposals and we will certainly expedite that to the best of our ability.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation why he refused permission for the construction of the Tamar Bridge to be proceeded with at all speed, since Parliament has sanctioned it and none of the cost will be borne by his Department.

This is a capital investment project for which the consent of the Treasury is necessary before the County of Cornwall and the City of Plymouth can exercise their powers to raise money by loan. I have told these authorities that in view of the higher priority of other schemes in the national road programme I would not be able to give any special support to an application to the Treasury for the Tamar Bridge in present circumstances.

Will the Minister reconsider his decision? Financial speculative interests in London can build palatial offices which often appear to be unnecessary and yet here is a road bridge, sanctioned by Parliament and very badly needed, the construction of which is delayed by the Government.

I had the benefit of the advice of a very expert deputation from Cornwall and Plymouth. I told the deputation quite frankly what the position was and it was in no doubt of what its actions could be. On the whole, we had better leave it to the local authorities to decide what next move to make.

Can the Minister tell us what next move they can possibly make to expedite the building of this bridge?

Certainly. They can put forward a project, and I will do my best to see that it is fairly considered.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what modifications he has made in his policy regarding the building of overhead roads in suitable places in Great Britain as a result of the visit of the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to Brussels.

My hon. Friend the Joint Parliamentary Secretary has made a full report to me on this subject, and the possibility of using similar methods of construction in this country is being studied.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when the road improvements at Hyde Park Corner will be put in hand.

I have nothing to add to the Answer which I gave to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Poole (Captain Pilkington) on 30th October.

Having led the House to believe on that occasion that the Queen's Speech might promise some legislation in the matter, which it does not do, will the Minister say whether the whole scheme is now indefinitely suspended? It appears that the Government have gone astray in Hyde Park.

The answer to the hon. Member's supplementary question is, "No."

Is there any reason why the eastern carriage drives in Hyde Park and Park Lane should not be made one-way streets before the boulevard scheme is introduced?

There are very great difficulties, because that would mean taking buses through the Decimus Burton Screen, which I am advised is not suitable for that purpose.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earlest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps he proposes to take to ensure that the increasing use of Northolt Airport for military services will not reduce the safety standards for civil aircraft using London Airport.

Military aircraft using Northolt may enter and leave the London Terminal Control Zone either in accordance with civil procedures or through two corridors of limited height in which some radar surveillance is provided. The use of these corridors is restricted when London Airport traffic is taking off or landing through the approaches to Northolt.

Does the Minister agree that it is an extraordinary fact that here we have a situation in which the civil services left Northolt in part because of the safety difficulties, and yet the military use of Northolt is now increasing? Can he give an assurance that he is protesting to the military authorities against their decision to bring fresh operations to Northolt?

We have recently had another look at this matter, and I think that some of the alterations which have been made in the drill and arrangements will meet the case. However, I agree with the hon. Member that we cannot have risks run at London Airport with civil aircraft, due to near misses and so on, through unregulated traffic around the airport.

Has the right hon. Gentleman been absolutely satisfied by his colleagues responsible for the military traffic that there is no other aerodrome which can be used for that purpose where these dangers would not arise?

That point is always kept under examination, but I am satisfied at the moment that the new arrangements which we have made should work satisfactorily. However, I will keep that under review.

Is the Minister telling the House that control of the Metropolitan area rests with the civil authorities, both for civil and military aircraft?

We work it together, as we should. What I am saying is that as London Airport traffic grows, and it grows steadily every year, we shall have to take increasing precautions to see that there is no interference from aircraft using surrounding aerodromes.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he has yet made any decision with regard to the provision of an airport within the Greater London area for the use of light aircraft.

No, Sir, but after full consultation with the Secretary of State for Air, my right hon. Friend hopes that when Croydon closes there will be facilities for such aircraft, including those of the flying clubs, at the R.A.F. Station at Biggin Hill, a few miles outside the Greater London area. A meeting of those concerned will be held there shortly to discuss the possibilities.

If it is not possible to take over Biggin Hill—and there are difficulties about that—does the right hon. Gentleman entirely rule out the possibility of keeping open Croydon for the use of light aircraft only?

At the moment I have nothing to add to what was said about this matter to the hon. Gentleman on 31st July. My right hon. Friend must adhere to his decision to begin the closing down of Croydon when Gatwick is opened for traffic next spring. Perhaps we had better wait until the various interests have met on the site at Biggin Hill on 22nd November to consider the possibility of accommodation there.

Does my hon. Friend appreciate that in Croydon there is a very strong feeling that Croydon should not be closed down, and will he give consideration to the representations lately made to him in that direction?

My hon. Friend will know that there are strong feelings both ways about the closing down of Croydon. I have nothing to add to what I have already said—that my right hon. Friend must adhere to his decision.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what compensation was paid to the directors of the four main-line railway companies for loss of office following nationalisation.

No compensation for loss of office was paid to the directors of the four main line railway companies by the British Transport Commission.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he will now make a statement about the setting up of a military base organisation in Kenya.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he is now prepared to indicate what arrangements are being made in respect of British defence installations in the Middle East region.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he is in a position to make a statement on the future of the British Middle East Headquarters and British military and air bases in Cyprus.

asked the Minister of Defence what is the Government's decision regarding the establishment of a military base in Kenya.

I would refer the hon. Members to the statement I made in the Defence debate last Thursday on this subject.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his statement did much to restore confidence and stability of Kenya? Will he amplify that statement and say whether he envisages an increase in the naval establishment at Kilindini and whether he has considered the setting up of a Commonwealth as opposed to a purely British strategic reserve in Kenya?

The new arrangements will not involve any increase in the naval base at Kilindini, nor are we planning any Commonwealth reserve in Kenya. I do not think that that issue arises, having regard to all the circumstances.

Is the Minister going to make a statement about the stores and installations, equipment and so forth—apart from the personnel situation—in addition to the statement that he made a few days ago? It is quite obvious that if he is going to meet with any success in the redeployment of military forces in these areas he will have to take into account the weapons and other equipment they will want if they have to fight a war.

Yes. The purpose of the plan is to have a certain number of additional troops in a convenient spot for reinforcement of other theatres. They will have to have, in Kenya, the equipment and vehicles they need for their own training, but we are not contemplating building up base installations there. Some duplication of their vehicles and other heavy equipment will be held as a war reserve in the theatres where we think they might have to be sent as reinforcements. That is the arrangement.

Having in mind the fact that in an area like Kenya we have to have a political calm, in view of the present difficulties, does the Minister still feel happy about going on with this arrangement?

I should make it clear—I think that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War made it clear when he wound up the debate a few days ago—that these plans do not envisage the maintenance of large forces in Kenya. I think that my right hon. Friend mentioned one or two battalions, and that is the order of magnitude.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is still a great sense of dismay and confusion in Kenya as to the real meaning behind the statement made by the Minister last Thursday? Can he say up to how many men he is proposing to establish?

I have just said that at the present moment we are thinking in terms of one or two battalions.

asked the Minister of Defence to what extent it is now intended to equip our forces in South-East Asia and other overseas territories with nuclear tactical weapons.

I have at present no statement to make on this subject.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the War Office is at present recruiting senior scientific officers to serve with a small detachment in Malaya, one of whose duties is to study the tactical use of nuclear weapons in the jungle? Does not this foreshadow the right hon. Gentleman's intention to extend his nuclear strategy from Europe to South-East Asia? Does he appreciate that this is causing a good deal of alarm in certain areas?

As the hon. Member knows, she has a specific Question upon this point later on the Order Paper, and I should not like to anticipate the reassuring Answer which I believe she will receive.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he has noted the deficiencies in the conduct of war-like operations in Egypt disclosed in the despatch of the Commander-in-Chief, Allied Forces; and whether he will make a statement.

Certain specific points are being studied; but I do not accept the right hon. Gentleman's implied criticism of the conduct of the operations. I am glad of this opportunity to make it clear that the Government are fully satisfied with the way in which the Chiefs of Staff, the Commander-in-Chief and the Service authorities at all levels discharged their duties.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my Question referred to the despatch of the Commander-in-Chief himself? I recognise that the right hon. Gentleman was not in the position of Minister of Defence then, but is it not obvious from that despatch that if the Egyptian forces had acted in any offensive or war-like spirit there would have been disaster among the British forces alone engaged in the operation? Under those circumstances, why does the Minister take such a complacent attitude about this despatch?

I do not take a complacent attitude. All I said was that I did not accept the implication that the military operations had been conducted in a faulty manner.

As the right hon. Gentleman seems to consider that from a military point of view this operation was perfect, may we take it that the Suez arrangement will serve as a model for future operations?

I have no doubt that it will be studied by military historians in years to come.

asked the Minister of Defence what is the policy of the Government with regard to the development of anti-missile missiles.

Work is proceeding on this difficult problem in close collaboration with the United States authorities.

Can the Minister give any indication when it will be possible to develop a missile which will be an effecttive means of defence against the intercontinental ballistic missile developed by the Soviet Union?

I am hopeful that an answer will ultimately be found to this difficult technical problem. I can think of no weapon in the past to which an answer has not ultimately been found—but it is no good pretending that it is just round the corner.

asked the Minister of Defence how many acres of land are held by Service Departments in Scotland; and by how much he estimates that this figure will be reduced in the next twelve months.

About 77,000 acres are held by the Services in Scotland. Within the next twelve months, it is hoped to sell about 3,300 acres and to give up training rights on about 6,500 acres of other land.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the fact that that still leaves a great many thousand acres? Will he give an assurance that he will reduce to the absolute minimum necessary the quantity of acres that he holds?

I can certainly give that assurance. What we are proposing to do in the coming year shows that we are trying to live up to those principles.

Has the Minister of Defence any further proposals for purchasing more land in Scotland for Service purposes?

That is a rather different question.

asked the Minister of Defence how far it is intended to abandon the guided missiles project in the Western Isles; what changes in expenditure and scale are contemplated; and what arrangements have been made for continuity of employment for workers on the scheme.

asked the Minister of Defence what consideration he has recently given to reducing expenditure on the South Uist rocket range.

I hope to be able to make a full statement shortly.

Can the Minister give some sort of idea of what the word "shortly" means, in view of the fact that a Question has already been deferred by arrangement with his Ministry in order to give it an opportunity to make a full reply today? There is a good deal of local uncertainty and disturbance about the matter.

I recognise the need to clarify the position as quickly as possible.

Will the Minister's consideration take into account the fact that the lowest estimate for this scheme was £15 million, and that one was £20 million? Is he aware that the Government are advising us to stop inflation, and does not he think that his Ministry, by countenancing this enormous sum of money, is helping to increase inflation? Can he give some assurance that this colossal expenditure of public money will be abandoned, because it is a useless expenditure in view of the recent developments in rocket warfare?

The reason why I am not making a statement today is that I am doing just what the hon. Member wants, namely, seeing how far we can reduce to the absolute minimum the demands that we shall have to make upon land and the expenditure that we shall have to incur out of the taxpayers' money.

Is the Minister aware that fairly definite statements have appeared in the Press that this rocket range is to be abandoned, and can he say whether this information is correct or whether it is intelligent anticipation?

I should say that it is anticipation, not necessarily correct.

asked the Minister of Defence the number of retired Regular officers of the three Armed Services and the Indian Armed Services in receipt of Service retired pay; and how many of these retired before the outbreak of war on 3rd September, 1939.

There are 41,471 retired Regular officers, of whom 10,559 retired before the outbreak of war.

asked the Minister of Defence what steps he is taking to increase the proportion of defence expenditure now allocated to Civil Defence.

Expenditure on Civil Defence is being examined in relation to other defence expenditure.

Is the Minister aware that there is a general opinion that the Government are not paying sufficient attention to Civil Defence compared with military offensive strategy? Will he examine the proposals for evacuating 12 million people in the event of war; and can he give any explanation and show hon. Members how this operation is possible?

Civil Defence can help to mitigate the consequences of nuclear attack, but quite obviously it cannot provide security. That is why it is our policy to put the emphasis, so far as possible, on active measures designed to deter aggression altogether.

Will my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of changing the title of this activity from "defence" to "relief and rescue"?

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I beg to give notice that I will endeavour to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Defence if, in view of recent events, he proposes to issue a revised interim defence White Paper.

No. Sir.

Does not the Minister agree that recent developments in rocket warfare and inter-continental ballistic missiles have made a great deal of this White Paper completely obsolete and out of date? Does not he think that he should clarify the position in view of recent developments?

My conclusion is exactly opposite. Recent developments have strikingly confirmed the rightness of the basis of the White Paper policy, which was the assumption that we are now moving into a period where rockets and guided missiles will play a major part in military affairs.

Are we to take it that the Minister of Defence did not, after all, listen to his right hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton (Mr. Head) when he spoke last Thursday?

I do not think that my right hon. Friend referred to Sputniks at all during his speech.

If the Minister did not listen to his right hon. Friend, will he at any rate listen to himself? Will he re-read the admirable speech on this subject which he made to the Annual Conference of the Conservative Party at Brighton, and having re-read it, will he reconsider the Answer he has just given to my hon. Friend? Does not the Minister's own speech show how ineffective is the policy advocated in the White Paper for which he was responsible some months ago?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity to develop his ideas on a later occasion.

asked the Minister of Labour the percentage increase in earnings since 1951.

Inquiries covering manual wage earners in manufacturing industries generally and in a number of the principal non-manufacturing industries showed that in April, 1957, the average weekly earnings per worker had risen by 45 per cent. since October, 1951. Figures for dates later than April, 1957, are not yet available.

In view of the fact that prices have risen less than 50 per cent. of that figure in the same period, would my right hon. Friend like to comment on the remark of Mr. Frank Cousins at the Trades Union Conference that wages ought to keep pace with the rise in costs?

Prices over the same period have actually risen by 24½ per cent. If I may, I should like to be excused from answering the second part of the supplementary question.

Will the right hon. Gentleman indicate whether there is now any greater number of hours being worked than at that period, and can he tell us whether the wage bill, judged as a percentage of the national income, is any greater than in those days?

The hours of work are, of course, an important consideration; but even if we take it on the basis of rates of wages, the increase is still 38½ per cent., which is very greatly in excess of the rise in prices over the period.

Comparing these figures with those of the section of the Health Service workers who have just been refused an increase, and whose wages have increased by only 21 per cent., are not the Government's figures shameful and incapable of defence in any way?

That is a much wider question than the one on the Order Paper, which is purely on the percentage increase in earnings since 1951.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that for many years the Catering Wages Commission has been anxious to have a wages board established covering the unlicensed residential establishments; when he expects to appoint such a board; and whether he will make a statement in the light of the Catering Wages Commission's 13th Annual Report and the reference therein to this subject.

I have noted the views expressed by the Catering Wages Commission, but I have no statement to make at the present time.

Is it not about time that the right hon. Gentleman's Ministry took action in connection with this matter? This has been going on now for about 10 or 12 years—indeed for about 40 or 50 years before that. If the Commission and the trade unions and the independent members on the various wages boards in the other sector of the industry have said that this is long overdue, and no progress is made because of the attitude of the employers, surely the Minister should take some positive action.

I do not pretend to have a solution to the problem of bringing the small boarding houses within the ambit of the present provisions and nor had any of my predecessors—though it was not for the lack of trying. I suppose it is because of that that appointments to this board lapsed in 1951. In my view, this problem is likely to be solved only as part of a whole review of the wages and catering position.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give an undertaking that the Government's declared policy on wage increases will not involve any attempt by him to cancel any decision by a joint industrial council to alter wages or conditions of labour, or any interference with the freedom of members of joint industrial councils in the making of such decisions.

Joint industrial councils are bodies concerned with collective bargaining and we have already informed the House that the Government have no intention of interfering with such arrangements.

In that event, will the Minister agree that the right of workers and employers to negotiate freely on wages and conditions is absolutely fundamental to our industrial structure? Will he say, therefore, why, if he takes that attitude with regard to the joint industrial councils, the Government have made their recent decision regarding the Whitley Council for the Health Service? What is the fundamental difference?

Although I should like to look at the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question when it appears in HANSARD, I do not think that I should disagree. Of course, in the case mentioned, the fundamental difference is that the management or official side who have had the responsibility for making the recommendation are not in the ordinary position of employers in that they are not responsible for finding the money.

asked the Minister of Labour on how many occasions and in what trades the decision of a Whitley Joint Industrial Council has been nullified by any body of employers or by the action of any Minister of the Crown.

About 180 joint industrial councils or similar bodies operate at the present time and many of them have been in existence for a long period. I cannot say what action has been taken on the decisions of these councils over the last forty years as no record is kept in my Department. It is clearly unlikely, however, that any body of employers would nullify an agreement which they had freely reached in negotiation. It is, of course, only in a very few cases in the public sector that Parliament has decided that a Minister's approval is necessary before an agreed recommendation can be put into effect.

Is the Minister aware that, since Whitley Councils were established in 1917, this is the first occasion that an agreement has been nullified by the Government? Is he aware that he has created a precedent which will be adopted by employers and lead to chaos in industry and that all he is getting out of it is £604,000 a year? Will the right hon. Gentleman ask his right hon. Friend the Minister of Health to reconsider his veto on the recent decision?

I note what has been said without agreeing with it. My right hon. Friend will also see in HANSARD what has been said. Obviously one cannot tell—because no records have been kept, and there are 180 of these councils going back forty years—whether such action has been taken before. The important point is that in the vast number of cases of joint industrial councils concerned with industry no Minister comes into the picture at any stage. It is only in a few cases that Parliament has decided he should, and presumably Parliament did not intend Ministerial approval to be a rubber stamp.

Would the Minister care to resolve the anomaly which now faces us? Can we take it, the Whitley Council having made its recommendation and the Minister having vetoed it, there is now no opportunity for the trade union side to go to arbitration on the matter? Would the Minister accept that the anomaly works out in a way which means that the trade union side must now present its case so very badly as to be sure that the official side will turn it down, so that the matter can go to arbitration? Is that the position?

The position is that, as there is no arbitrable issue at present, arbitration does not arise. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] There is no dispute, and therefore there is no arbitrable issue. It is possible that such an issue will arise in connection with this particular claim. Nothing I have said today, and nothing that my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of Health said to the deputation on Monday, excludes that possibility.

The Minister has said that there is no issue to go to arbitration. Would he not agree that the trade union side of the Whitley Council made an application which was agreed to at the Whitley Council, and because there was no failure to agree the matter cannot now be taken to arbitration? It does not alter the fact that the trade union side is insisting on its right to get a 3 per cent. advance. Will the right hon. Gentleman say what he means by his observation that there is no case to go to arbitration?

There is no case to go to arbitration because at the moment there is, in this particular instance, and in the technical sense, no dispute. Therefore there can be no arbitration. The hon. Gentleman knows that perfectly well. I have made it quite plain that nothing I have said today excludes my consideration of an arbitrable issue if one is put before me.

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of working days lost as a result of industrial disputes from 1st January to 1st July, 1957; what proportion of that total was lost as a result of disputes in the coal mining, ship-building and ship-repairing, water transport, docks and road passenger transport industries; and what proportion of the civilian labour force is employed in those industries.

The total number of working days lost as a result of industrial disputes from 1st January, 1957, to 31st July, 1957, was 7,830,000. Forty-five per cent. of this total was lost as a result of disputes in the coal mining, ship-building and ship-repairing, water transport and docks, and road passenger transport industries. On the last available estimate, which relates to the end of May, 1956, some 7½ per cent. of the total civilian labour force of the United Kingdom was employed in those industries.

Do not these figures show that very few of the workers in this country in proportion to their total number are involved over the years in industrial disputes?

Yes, indeed. I made that clear in my speech in the economic debate a fortnight ago.

asked the Minister of Labour what classes of young men are exempted from National Service; how many, in each category, have been granted exemption in the last six months; and how many young men were actually called up in that period.

The classes of men exempt from National Service are set out in the First Schedule to the National Service Act, 1948. Precise figures are not available but it is estimated that in the six months ended 30th September, the number of men found to be exempt was about 600. In addition about 4,500 men who were liable for National Service were granted indefinite deferment, so long as they continue in the employment concerned. The number called up during the same period was just over 50,000.

Do not the figures disclose that the right hon. Gentleman's Department ought to give very careful consideration to applications for further deferment where it is clear that young men are carrying on studies at technical colleges and have the approval of the principals of the colleges for deferment?

I do not think the hon. Member has got it quite right. Those who are exempt are a very limited number indeed and are such people as ministers of religion and blind persons. There is a second class, which includes coal miners and the Merchant Navy, which has indefinite deferment. Beyond that there is a wide field which the Question did not touch and therefore was not referred to in my Answer, and which covers postponement on hardship grounds.