asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement about his tour in the East African territories.

It is difficult to compress within the compass of a Parliamentary answer the impressions that I have formed after five weeks' intensive touring in East Africa.

I have placed in the Library a copy of the statements I made on leaving Nairobi, which cover much of the ground. It has been my purpose to reassure all races in East Africa of the enduring contribution that each will always have to make to the development of the territories.

Whilst congratulating my right hon. Friend on his obvious recovery from his recent operation and on the completion of a most strenuous tour in East Africa, may I ask him whether he would agree to comment on the report in today's Press to the effect that the African members of the Kenya Legislative Council rejected his suggested constitution?

There are Questions down actually on the announcement I made in Kenya, and I think, perhaps, I had better leave my comments till then.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what decisions have been reached as a result of his official visit to Kenya regarding an increase in African representation in the Legislative Council and other constitutional changes.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on his discussions in Kenya about possible changes in the constitution.

Before leaving Nairobi on 8th November, I made a made a statement to all groups in the Legislative Council setting out the constitutional arrangements which in the view of Her Majesty's Government would be required to replace those of 1954 which by the resignation of the European and Asian Elected Ministers, had become unworkable. The text of this statement will be presented to Parliament this afternoon as a White Paper.

In view of the great breakdown of the Lyttelton constitution and the opposition of the African representatives to the proposed new constitution, would it not be desirable that, instead of an improvised scheme which no one can hope will last ten years, there should now be a constitutional conference with representatives of all the groups with a view to finding a long-term solution?

The Lyttelton constitution did not, as the hon. Gentleman would suggest, break down until the European and Asian Ministers restored the initiative to the Secretary of State by their resignation. Throughout the whole period that I was in Kenya I was applying my mind to what, I hoped, would be the settlement that would emerge from negotiations between the different races, so that it was in no sense improvised when I announced it as the intention of Her Majesty's Government. I very much hope that, on reflection, those who do not at the moment feel happy about this settlement will come to realise the very real advantages it will bring. Incidentally, the number of Africans in the Legislative Council will, under Her Majesty's Government's settlement, be more than doubled.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman two questions? First, does he intend to impose this constitution in view of the news today about its reception by the African members? Secondly, can he say a little more about the Council of State, which is very vague in the statement he made? What is the purpose of the Council of State if the Colonial Office is going to retain ultimate control during the whole duration of this constitution?

As to the hon. Gentleman's first question, I announced a settlement which it fell to me to announce because of the freedom that had been restored to me by the resignation of the elected Ministers. As to the Council of State, I have not as yet worked out the full details of a body which is not designed in any way solely to protect the interests of minorities but to protect the interests of all races in Kenya. It would have powers of delay, revision and reference. It would also have certain powers in relation to any changes in the inter-communal seats, either in their total number or their method of election. In the view of many careful students of Kenya of all races, a body of this kind ought to have a reassuring effect on all who have made their home there and, not least, on the Africans themselves.

Is it not the case that the European members resigned in order to promote greater understanding—that was the reason they gave? Therefore, is it not important that the Colonial Secretary should be able to carry all the races with him, including the Africans, in any new arrangements Her Majesty's Government initiate? So will he please not shut his mind to the prospect of a conference if the alternative is to start off in an atmosphere in which one major political group gives notice that it is not going to take part?

I cannot regard the statement last night as being in any sense representative of African opinion as a whole. It was open to the representatives of any or every race to put forward proposals to me while I was in Kenya, including proposals for a conference of that kind; and, naturally, I should have considered them on their merits. But, in my view and in the view of my colleagues, the settlement I have announced will commend itself to men of good will of all races, and I am content to wait to see how the pattern unfolds.

I do not want anything I say to lead the Colonial Secretary to think that his efforts were not praiseworthy. I think the right hon. Gentleman made a vigorous effort, although I disagree with some of the points contained in the proposals he put forward. But does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is vital he should carry all the races with him, otherwise there will be no future for Kenya; and therefore, if his expectations of the future should not be borne out over the next few weeks, will he, before imposing this constitution, consider once again calling all the parties together?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman it is highly desirable that anyone in my office should carry all the races with him in any settlement arrived at. But Her Majesty's Government have arrived at a settlement, and I think that to have second thoughts about it now would be worse than having no settlement. I am convinced that, on reflection, this will carry the support of all races and of the people fully entitled to claim that they speak for the different communities.

In order to elucidate the Government's plan, may I ask on what principle the Governor will nominate to the Legislative Council in order to preserve the local government majority? Secondly, why is it desirable to create a Council of Ministers if the proportion in the non-communal section of the Legislative Council is frozen? Thirdly, would it not ease the situation if Her Majesty's Government could make a declaration that their ultimate purpose is the establishment of a political democracy in Kenya, with safeguards for the minorities so that we do not shelter behind ambiguous words like "multiracial" and "partnership communities"?

I will try to answer the right hon. Gentleman's three questions. Regarding the principles which will guide the Governor in exercising his power of nomination, his discretion must be quite unfettered, but he will look at the country as a whole and arrive at the decisions that seem to him best. May I say that anyone visiting Kenya now would come away immensely impressed with the standing and authority of His Excellency in the minds of all people of all races in Kenya. There is no question here of creating a Council of Ministers; the Council was created in 1954 and it remains—

I was referring to a Council of State.

A Council of State and not the Council of Ministers. The purpose of that was to meet the need which I found among all sections, not only Europeans and Asians, but Africans as well. The more experience I have of West Africa, the more I realise that in a purely African community there is the same desire for safeguards of this kind. It is to provide a feeling of security for the people of all races.

As to the ultimate purpose, I made clear what is the ultimate purpose in Kenya. For a long time there will have to be Colonial Office control. I do not foresee a date at this moment when it would be possible for the Colonial Office to relinquish control. The ultimate purpose would be to enable all who have made their homes in Kenya, of whatever race, to feel that they have an enduring rôle to play and that the standards they have set shall be maintained.

The Lyttelton constitution was introduced subject to a review for a period of years. Can my right hon. Friend say whether he has some similar suggestion about the new constitution.

In the proposals I have made, the only aspect that was frozen for a period of ten years was the proportion between the different communities for the inter-communal seats. The Europeans had asked for five members—that would be five Europeans, two Africans, two Asians and one Arab. They were strictly entitled to that under the 1956 agreement. In my statement I changed that to four representatives of each community, four Europeans, four Africans and four Asians, including one Arab. The Europeans and Africans wished to include one Arab. I regard that as a fair solution, and one which ought to survive for a period of ten years.

The right hon. Gentleman talks of this as a settlement. I understand that it is his proposed settlement and not a definite settlement. Is that so? The right hon. Gentleman says that the African statement yesterday does not represent African opinion. How does the right hon. Gentleman hope to ascertain African opinion if he does not think that this represents it?

Regarding the right hon. Gentleman's phraseology about whether this was a settlement or a proposed settlement, with the resignation of the European and Asian Ministers discretion was entirely restored to Her Majesty's Government, and the situation reverted to what it was before the Lyttelton constitution. Her Majesty's Government were free to say what should he the pattern for the future. I have therefore said on behalf of the Government what is the pattern. I regard that as a settlement—

That is an award, not a settlement.

I do not propose to quarrel with the hon. Gentleman about that. As to the method whereby one gauges what is the feeling of Africans in this matter, the right hon. Gentleman knows that it is extremely difficult, but I am confident that if we give this a chance and the six uncompensated seats are elected in the near future and the four inter-communal African seats are elected—which means ten more Africans—there will be seen a real advantage to the African people which they will not be slow in making clear they recognise as a real gain.

Mr. Mallalieu, Question No. 4.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Question No. 3 has not yet bean called.

It is so long ago since I called Question No. 2 that I had forgotten. I hope we shall make better progress, because we are proceeding very slowly. Mr. Brockway, Question No. 3.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what requests have been received for assistance with experiments in multi-racial education in Kenya, and what reply has been made.

Apart from the Royal Technical College, and the Hospital Hill primary school which receives the maximum grant-in-aid, financial help has not been requested for any such experiment in Kenya. The Kenya Government are, however, now considering a request for recognition of the introduction of pupils of other races into grant-aided African school.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask that he will do everything possible to assist experiments of this kind, which are of very great importance in any multiracial society?

I am well aware of the importance of these experiments. We have to bear in mind the very different background and the problems of language in general; but I do not quarrel with what the hon. Lady has said.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what consultations took place during his recent visit to Kenya with African members of the Legislative Council regarding the proposed constitutional changes.

During my two visits, I discussed the constitutional position separately with the African Elected Members' Organisation on five occasions. They also took part in four meetings which I held for all the Elected and Corporate Members, and I had two separate discussions with the African Members on other matters.

Has the Secretary of State had an opportunity of discussing the establishment of the Council of State, and did he also have the opportunity of considering the views of African Members on the proposed constitutional changes?

No, Sir. I did not discuss the proposal that is made in its complete form with any of the elected members' organisations before I left. As I went along, I picked up ideas as to what I felt would be a fair settlement and then announced it as the decision of the British Government.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps are being taken to implement the recommendation of the Dow Commission that land in the Kenya Highlands should be opened up to African farming.

The hon. Member will have seen the views of the Kenya Government set out in Cmd. 9801 and the statement made by my hon. Friend during the debate on the Report on 31st May. The Royal Commission recommended the abandonment of land reservations in both European and African areas; the Kenya Government pointed out that it would be injudicious to try to move faster than public opinion, among all communities, allowed.

Is the Secretary of State aware that it would help to reduce tension in Kenya if some decision could be taken in the near future on the Kenya Highlands? Is he further aware that a former Kenya Minister of Agriculture, Mr. Michael Blundell, recently said that there is unused land in the White Highlands that is open for development? Can he say whether the African farmers would have at last an opportunity of going in to develop that land?

The hon. Member cannot have it both ways. The Commission expressly linked reservations of African land and reservations of land for Europeans. The important thing is that the land should be properly farmed. I am glad to see indications of a greater disposition among all races to regard this as an agrarian and not a political problem.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies in how many cases fees charged to out-patients and inpatients, respectively, in Government institutions in Kenya have been waived on grounds of hardship; and how many African patients have received treatment since the charges were introduced, compared with the corresponding period in the previous year.

I have asked the Governor for these details and will circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps are being taken by the Government of Kenya to allocate houses for civil servants in Nairobi and other towns on a non-racial basis.

I have asked the Governor for this information and will circulate a further reply in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that, with Kenya moving towards a non-racial Civil Service, the allocation of houses for civil servants on racial grounds is quite undesirable? Will his Department use its pressure to speed up the implementation of the Governor's proposal that the whole of this question should be reconsidered so that African civil servants will be given housing compatible with their status?

I think I ought to await the Governor's comments before going into the details which the hon. Lady has raised. I hope she will forgive me.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the political situation in British Guiana following the election of representatives to the Legislative Council.

In the two months since the elections, members of the majority party who were appointed to ministries have been working constitutionally with the Governor and official members of the Executive Council in the Government of the country.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that very many hon. Members of the House welcome the co-operation now taking place in British Guiana and hope that it will be successful and prove a step forward to full self-government in that country?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies the number of members of the National Economic Council of Nigeria; how often it meets; and to what extent the Council has succeeded in co-ordinating economic policy and development programmes in the three regions of Nigeria.

The Council, which has 19 members, has so far met twice a year, but may meet more frequently in future. It has gone some way towards co-ordinating the economic policies of the Nigerian Governments and is shortly to consider more specific machinery to this end.

In view of the obvious desirability of co-ordinating the projects of the various regions in Nigeria, does not the hon. Gentleman think that this body ought to meet more frequently, and, in particular, should it not have some secretariat which would sift the various projects?

We must leave it to the Council to decide how often to meet, but I have indicated that it may be meeting more frequently. Regarding a secretariat, the shortage of experienced staff is a real difficulty, but I know that the hon. and learned Gentleman will understand that this is a matter for the Governments concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will consider the setting up of a committee of inquiry into the possibilities of establishing a research centre on nuclear energy in West Africa.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend is anxious that the Colonial Territories should share to the full the benefits of the peaceful application of nuclear energy, and training courses on nuclear subjects are available here for qualified people from West Africa. But the West African Governments have not proposed the establishment of a research centre, and probably feel, as I do, that there are at present more urgent tasks for their available financial resources.

Has not the attention of Her Majesty's Government been brought to the statement of Professor Huntley, of Ghana University College department of physics, that this nuclear centre could be established at a cost of only £20,000 and maintained for £4,000? Does he think that West Africa can really afford to stand aside, apart from any facilities which may be offered in this country, from this sort of development?

If the hon. Gentleman reads my answer, he will see that it represents a balanced view of what my right hon. Friend feels should be the position.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on his discussion of constitutional development in Uganda.

In the reply to a Question by the hon. Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) on 29th October, my hon. Friend undertook to have copies placed in the Library of a statement which I made in Uganda on 10th October. I have nothing to add to that statement, in which I said:

"The view of Her Majesty's Government is that it is wise to proceed towards self-government within the Commonwealth by carefully considered steps, each step being consolidated and fully understood before the next is taken. When direct elections on a Common Roll are introduced in 1961, this will be a further positive and important step forward towards self-government."

Does the right hon. Gentleman know that there is a considerable divergence of opinion in the Uganda Legislative Council on the kind of election which should take place in 1961? In view of that, what proposals has the right hon. Gentleman for obtaining a proper exchange of ideas in Uganda, with some kind of qualified advice to the people concerned?

Apart from what I have said, I have made it clear that there will be no major changes in the constitution until 1961, after which there will be a review. I know that there were differences of opinion in the Legislative Council, but there is general support for the introduction of an election common roll. Disagreement exists over the reservation of seats for non-Africans. I hope that discusssion will resolve this difficulty.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what action was taken following the disturbances at the prison at Mengo in Buganda on 26th August.

The remedial action taken was described in the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) on 31st October, to which I have nothing further to add.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will make a statement on the negotiations with the Government of Malta concerning integration and local employment.

The recent negotiations presided over by my right hon. and noble Friend the Minister of State were mainly concerned with the constitutional arrangements for integration, on which fully worked out proposals are now ready for consideration by both Governments. The intention is that the detailed plan, when agreed, should be published as a White Paper. In this connection, I consider that we are approaching the stage when we can implement the undertaking I gave to my hon. Friend on 8th May. I expect, therefore, shortly to be asking the Governor to consult the Archbishop of Malta on the proposals in so far as they concern the Church.

On local employment, ways and means were discussed of encouraging industrial development and the future of the dockyard. An Industrial Advisory Committee under Lord Hives and with a distinguished membership has been set up and will start work shortly. The Maltese Delegation made representations about the future of the dockyard. No decision has yet been taken on that question.

While being very grateful to my right hon. Friend for saying that he will discuss this matter with the Archbishop, may I ask if it is not possible, in order to make the result more unanimous whenever it is announced, for him also to discuss it with the opposition groups in Malta, or get Mr. Mintoff to do it?

As things are working out, I think these groups will have more chance to make their views clear than was originally the case. There will be a White Paper, and discussion on it will precede any legislation.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what conclusions the Imperial Government and the Maltese Government have reached with regard to the speeding up of the granting of visas for tourists from any part of the world to enter Malta.

Visas are not required by American tourists visiting Malta for a stay of up to three months. The Malta Imperial Government propose to make a similar concession very shortly to the nationals of most Western European countries, from which the bulk of tourist traffic can be expected.

Can my hon. Friend say when this is likely to happen? Cannot an immigration officer always turn people away? Furthermore, is my hon. Friend not aware that in Italy one can only get a visa to Malta from Rome, in France from Paris, and in Germany—it takes a month to get it—from Dusseldorf?

I am well aware of these difficulties. The date will be 1st January, 1958. It will be wise to see how these new concessions work out. If snags occur, I think Her Majesty's Government will not be loth to take further steps.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many primary school places were available for African children in Tanganyika this session; and how many applications there were for places.

Primary School places at present available for African children total 382,440. Nearly 130,000 places are available in Standard I this session, and of these nearly 21,000 are unfilled. There are no central records of the total number of applications for places.

Can the hon. Member give the House the reason why so many places remain unfilled? Is it because a money payment is required which parents are not in a position to make?

There is no indication of that whatsoever. I think the answer is that in some areas where there were formerly no schools, schools have been built large enough to allow for increase in the years to come, and therefore there are more places unfilled at present. It is due to wise planning. Some responsibility must rest on those parents who are still reluctant to send their children to school.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what qualifications are required for appointment as resident magistrate in Tanganyika; how many resident magistrates there are at present; how many of these are Africans; and how many Africans are in process of acquiring the necessary qualifications.

Candidates must normally be barristers or solicitors of three years standing. The establishment is 28 and there is one vacancy. No Africans have yet been appointed. At least two Africans from Tanganyika are at present reading law in this country.

In view of the fact that there are no Africans appointed and that the Trusteeship Council has made a recommendation in this matter, will the hon. Gentleman deal with this question of magistrates separately from the general question of the appointment to senior officials' posts as a group?

I have tried to answer the Question on the Paper. If the right hon. Gentleman likes to put down a separate Question, I will try to deal with it and do my best to answer it. Africans are, on merit, appointed to these posts. Two Africans are already serving as district officers with magisterial powers.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what were the total sums paid out from the African Productivity Loan Fund and the Local Development Loan Fund, respectively, in Tanganyika during each of the last three years; and why only 26 loans were granted from these funds in the quarter April-June, 1957, as against 53 in the preceding quarter.

Local Development Loan Fund payments were £13,453 in 1954; £10,061 in 1955; and £9,352 in 1956. African Productivity Loan Fund operations started in January, 1955, and payments were £35,215 in 1955 and £22,077 in 1956. The number of applications for loans has fallen off to some extent in recent months as a result of the increased use of normal commercial hire purchase, and partly also as a result of tightening up on credit issues in doubtful cases.

Does the latter remark of the Under-Secretary imply that there has been difficulty in getting repayment of instalments? Has this drop in the last quarter any seasonal significance? Without asking him to go into every detail in question, will the hon. Gentleman consider whether he could give me some fuller statement than this in writing in order that we can study the matter more closely?

Certainly, I will try to write to the hon. Gentleman and give him more details.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies the total net expenditure met from United Kingdom funds for aid of any kind to the Colonial Empire; and what is the cost of administration falling upon the United Kingdom.

In 1956–57, the latest year for which figures of actual expenditure are available, the total net expenditure from United Kingdom Government funds was £47·3 million. In addition, public loans on the London Market raised by Colonial Governments totalled £9·75 million. The cost of administration cannot be isolated: it is covered by total net expenditure of £1·4 million on the Colonial Office Vote.

Will my hon. Friend represent to the Minister that, having regard to the fact that £150 million is equal to 1s. on the Income Tax, the proposals made by the Labour Party to spend that money in the Colonies is extremely misleading and is probably utterly "phoney"?

I think my hon. Friend is on to a very good point there.

Before the Under-Secretary of State commits himself to that comment, perhaps he would study the proposals in greater detail. If he does, he will find that it is the usual practice of this party, as opposed to the party now in Government, to keep its Election promises.

I am not necessarily prepared to subscribe to the view that the hon. Gentleman has expressed, but if this is regarded as an Election promise by the party opposite, heaven save our country if they ever get into power again and this expenditure has to be put into effect.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies in which of the Colonial and Trust Territories there are inter-racial primary schools; in which there are inter-racial secondary schools; and to what extent it is his policy to establish inter-racial education in these territories.

There are primary and secondary schools open to children of all races in a majority of Colonial and Trust Territories; and it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to encourage this arrangement wherever possible. Where, however, linguistic, religious or cultural differences between groups within the population are so great that it is necessary to provide separate schools for the different groups, this provision continues to be made.

While one understands the difficulties to which the hon. Gentleman has referred, will he make sure that this principle of inter-racial education is pursued vigorously? Is he aware that in one or two cases the Government have lagged behind the proprietors of voluntary schools in this matter?

I think I have indicated what is the view of Her Majesty's Government, and I hope the hon. Gentleman will accept that.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the known danger of even light corporal punishment to those suffering from enlargement of the spleen, he will make compulsory in malarious districts medical examination of all prisoners or detainees before the administration of corporal punishment.

So far as prisoners or detainees are concerned, none may receive corporal punishment for offences against discipline in any territory, whether malarious or otherwise, unless a medical examination has been made and the prisoner or detainee pronounced fit to receive this kind of punishment. If the hon. Gentleman has any particular case in mind, I will gladly make inquiries.

While thanking the Minister for this wise and humanitarian decision, may I ask him to watch the matter carefully, because in malarious districts a large number of the population are suffering from malaria, with enlarged spleens, and unless a careful examination is made, this may be overlooked and corporal punishment may have dire results?

I appreciate the point which the hon. Member has made, and I would like to put his mind at rest by saying that I have been unable to find any case in the records of my Department of anyone suffering severe internal injury of the sort envisaged resulting from corporal punishment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will publish the terms of the law requiring Africans in Northern Rhodesia to carry night passes; and if he will give the reasons why this law is not repealed.

The relevant provisions are set out in the township regulations made under the Northern Rhodesia Townships Ordinance and the by-laws made under the Municipal Corporations Ordinance and the Mine Townships Ordinance; copies of all of these are in the Library of the House. As a result of a debate in the Northern Rhodesia Legislative Council last July, the relevant regulations have been suspended from 1st November for a trial period of six months in the township areas for which Government is responsible, in seven of the other townships and in three of the municipalities.

While I thank the right hon. Gentleman very much indeed for the decision to suspend these passes, may I ask him if he will consider within a short period abolishing them altogether, since the indignity which they impose on Africans far outweights their dubious value for control purposes?

I am very grateful for any bouquets, but the credit lies with the Northern Rhodesian Government, which took the initiative.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when the report of the Boundary Commission for Mauritius will be ready; and when a decision on it will be reached.

The Chairman has informed me that the Commission will need a little more time before it can complete its report. He has undertaken to let my right hon. Friend have it as soon as possible.

Can the Minister give any indication when the Report is to be expected, because it is, of course, awaited?

The Report has not yet been submitted, and I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman how long it will be before it will be. I know that the Chairman is working with his colleagues as speedily as possible. It will be for my right hon. Friend to study the Report in great detail when it is submitted before he can pronounce upon it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why certain paramount chiefs in the Sierra Leone Protectorate have been reinstated after their removal on grounds of corruption following the Cox inquiry.

Four chiefs who had been suspended from office pending inquiry following the Cox Commission were reinstated after full consideration by the Sierra Leone Government of all the circumstances, including the need to restore settled local administration.

May I ask the Secretary of State whether it is altogether a wise thing to restore the authority and prestige of paramount chiefs whose conduct has been questioned, and who, in relation to their own people, are unpopular? Further, will the paramount chiefs take their places in the Legislative Council, and, possibly, one or two of them serve on the Executive Council?

Three of the four chiefs were exonerated on a charge of corruption. I cannot accept the view that the opposition to them represents a majority. I think it is very dangerous in Africa and elsewhere to create a vacuum unless we are sure what we are to fill it with. These chiefs, once reappointed, of course, can function in the proper way.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) how long Her Majesty's Government propose to retain the Homicide Act on the Statute Book, in view of the fact that crimes of murder have so substantially increased since it was passed; and

(2) if he will state the number of murders which have been committed in this country since 31st May last; and how this figure compares with the number committed during the similar period prior to 31st May.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Depart- ment what has been the monthly rate of murders to the latest available date from 1st April, 1957; and what were the comparative figures for the year 1955.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, in view of the increased number of murders, he will reintroduce the death penalty for all murders.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will state the number of murders committed since the abolition of the death penalty, and also the figures for an equal period immediately before the abolition.

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table showing the number of murders recorded as known to the police in England and Wales for each month since the beginning of 1950. It will be seen from this that the figures normally fluctuate considerably from month to month. The number of murders recorded as known to the police for each of the six months April to September this year were, respectively, 27, 21, 34, 15, 20 and 11, a total of 128, compared with a total of 82 for the corresponding period in 1955. It is too soon to assess the effect of the Homicide Act or to contemplate a further change in the law.

Does not this increase clearly show that the death penalty was a deterrent? How many more murders must be committed before the Government realise that in this particular case they made a grave mistake?

The House passed the Homicide Act and I think it is far too soon to contemplate a change in the law. The position about numbers of murders is that they fluctuate. I am not underestimating the gravity of the figures I have given, which even in my oral Answer I tried to particularise to show the increase, but we must see whether this is a fluctuation before we start envisaging a change in the law.

Can the Home Secretary tell us if there were not, regrettably, even bigger figures before the Homicide Act was passed?

I should need notice of particular dates in order to be quite exact in giving that information.

As I think these figures do definitely show an increase as compared with 1955, before the Motion on this subject was discussed in this House, and as this increase no doubt partly arises from the partial abolition of the death penalty, would not my right hon. Friend agree that this House did well in refusing the demand for the complete abolition of the death penalty?

I do not want to enter into further controversy on this subject. The number of children murdered between the date of the Homicide Act coming into force and 30th September was 32, compared with 34 in the same period of 1955, so it will be seen that it is difficult for the house to gather the exact significance of these things from mere figures.

Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that, as the law now stands, a murderer committed to jail for life today can come out in time to murder a child born today in twelve and a half years' time?

I think that all depends on circumstances. I do not underestimate the seriousness of the observations of my

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will arrange for immigration officials to board cross-channel passenger ships at the continental port of embarkation and

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for an answer that one hopes will serve to put this matter into proper perspective—[Interruption.]—surely it will—will he confirm that, between the date when the House of Commons passed the Second Reading of the Death Penalty Abolition Bill and the date on which the Homicide Act became law, the death penalty was, in fact, in practice in suspension, and that the effect of the Homicide Act was not to abolish the death penalty but partly to restore it; and secondly, that the discriminations in the Homicide Act that the public find so very difficult to understand are the responsibility of the Government and not of the House of Commons, which had wished not to make any discriminations at all?

I cannot deny that there are discriminations in the Homicide Act, and anyone having to interpret it must realise that. As regards the alleged suspension of the death penalty, I can only say that the Secretary of State of the day—not only myself—was placed in a very difficult position and, for reasons which this House knows, there was what amounted to a virtual suspension for that time.

I hope to be able to introduce this arrangement next season on the car-ferry service into Dover. The position in regard to the other cross-Channel services cannot conveniently be set out within the compass of a Parliamentary Answer, and I am writing to my hon. Friend giving him full details. I may say, however, that on-passage examination of the passports of foreign travellers is already in operation on some of the main services.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that a concession of this kind would save travellers a very great deal of time and would be much appreciated? Would he further agree that more difficulties are put in the way of foreign visitors trying to enter this country than almost any other country in Western Europe?

I hoped that I had helped my hon. Friend by making a concession on the Dover car-ferry service. I hope to follow that up later elsewhere.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is satisfied that the existing penalties for offences of cruelty to children are sufficient; and if he will make a statement.

The law in England and Wales on cruelty to children is one of the subjects that is being considered by the Committee, under Lord Ingleby's chairmanship, appointed by my predecessor. I should prefer not to make any comment in the meantime on the existing penalties.

Will not the Secretary of State agree that public opinion is seriously concerned about this matter, especially as it would seem that the penalties already existing are not sufficiently invoked in all cases?

Yes, I am aware of that, but I think I had better not make any comment until we get this authoritative Committee's report.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases of assault on children and women, respectively, have occurred in the last 12 months; whether this shows an increase or decrease on the previous 12 months; and what is the percentage of either increase or decrease.

I regret that, as assaults are not classified for statistical purposes according to the age and sex of the victim, I cannot give my hon. Friend precisely the figures for which he asks. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT the only relevant figures which are so classified, namely, the number of crimes known to the police in the categories of indecent assault on females and defilement of girls under 16.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if a date has yet been fixed by the Boundary Commission for the commencement of the General Review of Parliamentary Constituencies under the House of Commons (Redistribution of Seats) Act, 1949.

No, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman contemplating amending legislation with regard to the alteration of the periods at which these general reviews take place?

I should like to have notice of that question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action he proposes to take regarding the Report of the Wolfenden Committee.

I am unable to add at present to the answer which I gave on the 31st October to a similar Question by the hon. Member for Pembroke (Mr. Donnelly).

Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that many of us on this side of the House, and people in the country, think he should reject the Wolfenden Committee Report in so far as it relates to homosexuality?

In my reply to the debate on the Address, I said that I thought we had much better obtain the reactions of public opinion and, if desirable, the opinion of this House before we made up our minds on these difficult subjects, but meanwhile I can tell my hon. and gallant Friend that I am under no doubt as to the anxiety felt on this subject in some quarters.

In view of the importance the right hon. Gentleman says he attaches to the opinions in this House, can he say whether he is prepared in the reasonably near future to provide time for a discussion? While appreciating that there are many differences of opinion on the matter, is it not a fact that public opinion has been aroused and that if the Report were pigeon-holed without any discussion in the House it would be very unfortunate?

There is no question of pigeon-holing the Report; otherwise I would not have mentioned it in my speech in the debate on the Address, when the subject was supposed to be confined to economics. I decided to extend it to cover vice. I did that on purpose, because I wanted to give an opportunity to the House to realise that if there were a wish for a debate I think we had better have talks through the usual channels.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will reintroduce flogging as a deterrent against crimes of violence.

No, Sir. I am not satisfied that flogging as a judicial penalty is an effective deterrent. The principal offences for which it could be inflicted on adults before its abolition in September, 1948, were robbery with violence, armed robbery, and robbery in company with others. The number of these offences is still below the level of 1948, notwithstanding the general increase in crimes of violence.

Would not my right hon. Friend think that flogging would protect the very old and very young and prove a deterrent to these crimes?

I have studied the Report of the Departmental Committee on Corporal Punishment, which reported in 1938. It examined this matter very carefully and did not find that a judicial penalty appeared an effective deterrent. The figures I have given seem to indicate that. I do not wish to make any further observation on the broad aspects of corporal punishment.

Would the Home Secretary agree that, since the somewhat disturbing figures for crime of all categories cover virtually every type of indictable offence, it would be a good thing if his hon. and gallant Friend could understand that there is not a simple and crude correlation between changes in penalties and the incidence of offences?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to enact the reforms proposed to him by the Working Party on Hackney Carriages.

For the reasons indicated by my predecessor on 1st March, 1956, in his reply, of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy, to a Question by the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway), no early legislation on this subject is contemplated.

Is the Home Secretary aware that this Working Party reported to his predecessor in December, 1954, after devoting three or four years' very careful work to the preparation of a Report? As the recommendations made contain many which are agreeable to the whole of the taxicab industry and to hon. Members on both sides of the House, will he give serious consideration to carrying them out?

I will certainly look at it in the light of the Parliamentary interest which I notice today, but I must refer to my predecessor's reply of 1st March, 1956, which sets out the reason why he thought that the Report would not provide any basis on which legislation could be framed. I do not as yet see that I can alter that opinion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of the shortage of policemen in most of the forces of the country; what is the weekly wage of a constable, sergeant, inspector and superintendent; and what steps are being taken to improve the conditions as a step toward attracting more suitable men to our police forces.

Although most police forces have vacancies, only a small number are substantially short of men. The strength of forces generally has been steadily rising for many months and is higher than it has ever been. With permission, I will circulate the weekly pay rates in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Questions of pay and conditions of service are considered by the Police Council for Great Britain.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the question of wages in the force is a discouraging effect upon men who want to join? Will he hurry

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what arrangements he is making so that in future his Department will have a full record of the numbers and types of people migrating in and out of the United Kingdom.

No, Sir. I cannot review any such position without knowing exactly what has happened, and I do not wish to interfere in any way at this stage. I would remind the hon. Member that the strength of the force generally has been steadily rising, and that is a sign, I think, of adequate contentment, apart from the normal negotiations in the police force as a whole.

Would not the Home Secretary agree that it will be most unsatisfactory if he finds himself in the position of the Minister of Health? Can he give us an assurance that the management or official side of the Council will act in accordance with the wishes of the Government on this occasion so that the same position does not arise?

I think it is unwise to prejudge any consideration of any wage claim before it is put before the Minister. While I will pay attention to what the right hon. Gentleman has said, I do not think that he ought to prejudge this case at this stage.

At present there are admitted deficiencies in the available statistics of migration to and from the United Kingdom. The various Government Departments interested are making a special review of the information required for official purposes about migration and the machinery for obtaining it, and I am not in a position to make any further statement in the matter at the moment.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the present situation is very unsatisfactory? Does he think that he will be able to make a statement about it within, say, the next six months?

Perhaps I could let my hon. and gallant Friend know when I am in a position to make a statement, in view of the information which I am collecting.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will introduce legislation making it compulsory for all laboratories and similar establishments purchasing live animals for experimental purposes to maintain adequate records concerning all their purchasing transactions.

No, Sir. On the evidence available to me I am not satisfied that such legislation is necessary.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many people believe that they are insufficiently protected today against the theft of private pets, and that some improvement in this state of affairs would be welcomed?

I have been through the papers and I find some recent cases involving three persons and one dealer, but otherwise I can find no evidence that the stealing of animals for sale for experimental purposes is widespread. I would also remind the House that the National Health Service hospitals do not purchase animals. If my hon. Friend wishes to direct Questions to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health, I hope that he will do so.