asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make new arrangements for visits to prisoners so that they no longer take place in boxes with glass partitions between visitor and prisoner.

Much progress has been made in providing pleasant visiting rooms, and this will continue wherever accommodation is available. In all prisons, visits in cubicles with glass partitions are, so far as possible, restricted to unconvicted prisoners and others for whom this precaution is thought necessary.

Would the right hon. Gentleman go in disguise to one of the prisons—

He has been.

—and see this barbarity for himself? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is not the case that this method is limited to unconvicted prisoners? Can he imagine what it is like with a row of these open boxes with a glass barrier between prisoner and visitor wishing to speak of intimacies, a babel of shouting because they cannot hear, the woman leaning against the glass because she cannot say a word? Will the right hon. Gentleman look into this situation?

I have been to look for myself, and I think that is the right thing to do, but I shall always go undisguised. The position is that much progress has been made, but not enough. I confess, and that we try to restrict this inconvenience to unconvicted prisoners for reasons which we must maintain. I have said "so far as possible." The hon. Gentleman is right in saying that it is not in every case. All we can do is to make progress with this and other prison reforms as soon as we can.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will abolish the censorship of prisoners' letters to Members of Parliament.

No, Sir. I have looked again at the statement made to the House by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) when he was Home Secretary, and at the reports of subsequent discussions of this question in the House, and I find no grounds for differing from the conlusions reached by my predecessors in office.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, as in other matters, references to pre-1951 happenings are not always welcomed on this side of the House? Does not he think that this practice is a reflection on the integrity and judgment of Members of Parliament? Is he aware that many enlightened prison governors would welcome the abolition of this practice?

I dare say, and if they would I hope they will communicate with me. The difficulty is that questions of prison discipline should be dealt with by the authorities on the spot. I do not think M.P.s can help with that. There are certain matters, to which the right hon. Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) referred on 29th July, 1949, which are not suitable for letters of this sort. I do not see any reason to depart from his judgment, because I think that it would be unwise for such things to be included in letters. Otherwise, prisoners can, of course, write to Members of Parliament.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, having regard to the fact that prisoners on the escape list are deprived of their clothing at night and are subject to other safety restrictions, he will cancel the instruction requiring that lights in their cells be kept burning all night.

No, Sir. It is essential that a regular watch should be kept on these prisoners during the night, and the use of a dimmed light enables this to be done without disturbing prisoners by frequent opening of cell doors.

Is the Home Secretary aware that men who merely escaped from magistrates' courts before sentence have been for two years on the escape list? Does he not think that a 25-watt bulb burning over their heads all the time is torture by light? Is not that totally at variance with his conception and hopes of what should be done in prisons, and will he look at the matter again?

I will certainly look at it again, but prisoners are not kept on the escape list longer than we can help.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department in how many prisons visiting magistrates, when discharging their official duties, are accompanied by prison clerical officers.

In 66 out of 77 cases the clerk to the visiting committee or board of visitors is an officer of the Department.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that where a visiting magistrate has no legal qualifications it is desirable that he should be accompanied by a solicitor, clerk of the peace or someone who can exercise an independent official opinion?

Yes, Sir, in general. I do.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what record is kept of convicted prostitutes who have obtained British nationality by marriage.

It is the practice of the Metropolitan Police, when a married prostitute first comes to notice, to inquire whether she was an alien before marriage. I am circulating what information is available in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

When considering fresh legislation, will my right hon. Friend have in mind this question of so-called marriages of convenience, whereby foreign women are brought into this country and given British nationality by marriage purely for the purpose of prostitution?

I have looked into that and if my hon. Friend will refer to paragraph 343 of the Wolfenden Report, he will see that that shows the difficulties involved in devising a machinery to deal with this matter, but, of course, it is one that is always with us.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how often the Interdepartmental Committee on Home Safety has met during the past session; what recommendations it has made; and how often it expects to meet in the coming Session.

During the past Session the Committee has been mainly concerned with the flammability of clothing materials, and a Sub-Committee on this subject met four times. The full Committee met once. The purpose of the Committee is not to make recommendations but to co-ordinate Departmental activity. It expects to meet three or four times during the present Session.

Cannot the Home Secretary get a move on over this? Is he aware that last year there were 4,000 deaths of old people resulting from falls in institutions—old people who have fallen on the highly-polished floor of an institution? Cannot we have some regard for the appalling number of deaths among elderly people? Could not the Committee really become a bit more effective?

Of course, the Committee's only job is the task of bringing together all Government activities in this matter. We have had a report from the British Standards Institution recommending that there should be a campaign of public education. That, I think, would be more effective, and we are giving attention to it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what grant is to be made, this year and next, to the Royal Society for Prevention of Accidents towards its work for safety in the home.

In accordance with an arrangement made in 1954, the Society will receive in the current year the third of three annual grants of £1,500. The purpose of the arrangement was to enable the Society so to extend the scope of its work that it could be maintained by voluntary subscriptions.

Is the Home Secretary aware that his right hon. colleague the Minister of Transport gives the same Society £68,000 for its work on roads? As deaths from home accidents exceed road deaths by a 1,000 a year, why should there be such a discrepancy?

My precedessor, the present Lord Chancellor, made a statement on this subject. The object of the grant was to extend the scope of the Society's work so that it could be maintained by voluntary subscriptions. Since then, the Society has made an application for the renewal of its grant. That application is under consideration, so perhaps the House would let me consider it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will amend the Pharmacy Acts so that the attendance of a qualified pharmacist will not be necessary for the retail sale of a pre-packed advertised patent medicine containing a trivial amount of a scheduled poison.

No, Sir. I do not consider that it would be practicable or desirable to depart from the established practice by which exemptions from the law relating to the retail sale of poisons are confined to specified poisons contained in specified substances or preparations.

Whilst appreciating the need for caution in these matters, is it not ultra-cautious to require the presence of a qualified pharmacist for the sale of something like Veganin? Could not an experienced deputy be appointed to act for the pharmacist in the sale of articles of that type?

We have powers under the Pharmacy and Poisons Act, 1933, and the Third Schedule to the Poisons Rules, 1952, to make certain exceptions. For the moment, I should like to rely on those powers and see what can be done under them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of his reply to the hon. Member for Gorton on 31st October that there would be only five minutes' warning of an atomic attack but that the Government proposed to evacuate 40 to 45 per cent. of the population of the highly industrialised areas in advance of the outbreak of hostilities, on how much advance notice of the outbreak of nuclear hostilities the Government bases its plans for the evacuation of 12 million people.

The time required to carry out any scheme of evacuation which may be decided upon would vary from one area to another according to circumstances.

Will it not take a matter of weeks, rather than days, to evacuate 12 million people? Is it not a fact that the most we can expect in the way of warning of the outbreak of hostilities is a period of hours, if not of minutes? Will not the Home Secretary address himself to this question in a spirit of realism? How does he expect to carry out this evacuation plan in advance of hostilities?

I think that we may, perhaps, get some idea of the climate of the situation rather longer ahead than the hon. Gentleman realises, but I should like to reassure the House that we are having discussions about this evacuation policy with the local authorities associations. These discussions are not yet complete. When they are complete, it would be better for me to make a further statement.

Can the Home Secretary tell us whether he is contemplating in the fairly near future making any general statement on Civil Defence? It is my impression that we have not had a general statement for some time, and as events seem to be moving very fast indeed, can the right hon. Gentleman say if we can hope for a comprehensive statement fairly soon?

I shall certainly pay attention to the right hon. Gentleman's request on this subject and regard it as a matter we can discuss.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proposals he has to deal with the thousands of men now serving prison sentences for failure to meet maintenance payments due under court order to their wives or children.

Butler: As I stated in reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Devonport (Miss Vickers) on 19th November, the Government propose to introduce during the present Session a Bill to provide for the attachment of earnings to satisfy maintenance orders on which payments have fallen into arrears. This was among the measures recommended by my Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders in its recent Report on alternatives to short terms of imprisonment, and I hope that it will significantly reduce the number of men who go to prison for failure to meet their maintenance obligations.

While the right hon. Gentleman is no doubt aware that his decision to bring in such a Measure is in the public interest and will meet with the approval of the Magistrates' Association, the Association of Probation Officers, the Howard League and various other organisations, would he tell the House whether he has good hopes of reaching some agreement with the Trades Union Congress?

I realise that there are difficulties about this Measure, but I must stress that the number of men committed to prison for failure to meet maintenance obligations is about 5,000 a year and that the average period served is six weeks. With the present crowded state of the prisons, it must be encumbent on me to take any steps I can to reduce the pressure on them. It is in that spirit, realising the difficulties that both the Trades Union Congress and some industrialists feel, that I must discuss with all those interested some of the difficulties that arise.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what were the circumstances which led to the certification of John Seaward, who was transferred from an approved school to an institution for mental defectives; and, when tested later, what standard of average mentality he was found to have;

The certificates of two duly qualified medical practitioners satisfied my predecessor that Anthony John Seaward was a defective as defined in the Mental Deficiency Act, 1913. They classified him as a moral defective after examining him separately and obtaining information about him from his approved school, including the result of tests showing that his intelligence was above average. Their findings were confirmed on periodic review in the mental institution to which he was transferred.

Is the Home Secretary aware that his Answer to those two questions demonstrates the whole difficulty of deciding when a boy is a real defective? When there is a borderline case, can be explain what guides the Home Secretary in making his decision? What guides him in coming to the conclusion that a boy should go to a hospital for defectives? It seems to me that in many cases there is a tremendous amount of discrepancy and that this is a case which indicates the whole difficulty.

I think this difficulty was also realised by the Royal Commission on Mental Illness, which pointed out that there may be a difference in the medical opinion—which is exactly what happened in this particular case—especially when the patient's intelligence is above the average. I regard this as a most difficult case, but I am satisfied that it was judged by the Secretary of State on the best information available to him from his medical advisers, which was all that he could do.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has considered the plea of the honourable Member for Wallsend that the boy from his constituency, who is in the Aycliffe Approved School, should not be transferred to an institution for mental defectives; and what is his decision.

I have considered the hon. Member's representations, but, as I have informed him, I am satisfied from the certificates of two qualified doctors that the boy is a defective. I propose to make an order under Section 9 of the Mental Deficiency Act, 1913, for his transfer to hospital as soon as a vacancy can be found for him.

Is the Minister aware that I have seen this boy, that I have interviewed doctors and seen the schoolmaster about his school career, and that I have interviewed an employer who engaged the boy for a week? Is he aware that the evidence of these people does not indicate that the boy should be put into a school for mental defectives? Is he aware that I am bitterly disappointed and, after interviewing the doctors, the officials and the boy himself, am satisfied that the boy should not be sent to this school but would be far better at home under proper control? Will the right hon. Gentleman review this case again in six months' time?

I have had correspondence with the hon. Member and know that he feels very deeply about this case; but I have had before me full reports about the boy both before and since his admission to this school, as well as the specialist medical advice available to my Department. The decision has been taken on the best advice, but I will certainly keep in touch with the hon. Member.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many streets were closed, and for how long, when Parliament was opened on 5th November last.

I am informed by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis that 36 streets and parts of a further six streets were closed to general traffic for periods varying from two-and-a-half to nearly three hours.

Has the Home Secretary noted that this year's State opening of Parliament caused more widespread dislocation of traffic than ever before? Is it necessary to close so many streets for so long to provide for so short a procession over such a short distance, when the procession takes only a few minutes to pass any given point? Is it not time for fresh thinking about the problem?

The trouble in this case is that the fresh thinking would have to be done by the weather. The restrictions were imposed at 9.30 a.m. when we expected the traffic peak would normally have passed, but in fact it was badly delayed by the weather, which partially accounts for the difficulties which arose.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent there was less dislocation of traffic during the Lord Mayor's procession on 9th November last, compared with previous years.

I am informed by the Commissioners of Police for the City of London and of the Metropolis that the dislocation of traffic was notably less than in recent years.

Is it not obvious that having the Lord Mayor's Show on Saturday was more fun for the children and gave less cause for cursing among adults on their lawful business? Therefore, will not the Home Secretary enter into some discussions with the authorities concerned about the little bit of legislation required to ensure that the Lord Mayor's Show takes place on the first or second Saturday in November? Experience has shown that Saturday is the best day for the job.

It is the tradition that the Lord Mayor's Show is held on the day when he goes to take the oath at the Law Courts, namely, 9th November, which this year fell on a Saturday. I am certainly ready to discuss this matter, but I think that it would be rather difficult to depart from tradition.

Why?

Cannot the Home Secretary establish another tradition?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what are his proposals for legislation to deal with the problem of young persons committed to the care of local authorities until 18 years of age, bearing in mind that a local authority has no powers of restraint over such persons over 17 years of age.

I feel sure that Lord Ingleby's Committee on Children and Young Persons will study this problem, and that we shall be in a better position to consider the need for legislation when they have reported.

May I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply? Will he bear in mind that local government officers dealing with children's committee work are extremely concerned about this, and that while there may be few cases, they are always very serious?

Yes, I am aware of that.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will give the reasons for his refusal of the application for an off-licence for the sale of beer, wine, and spirits made by Mrs. Margaret Cheetham, of 9 Blackwell Road, Carlisle.

After careful consideration of Mrs. Cheetham's application, in consultation with the Local Advisory Committee and the State Management Districts Council, I did not feel justified in making an exception in this instance from the established policy that the sale of liquor in Carlisle should, in general, be confined to the State Management Scheme.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is room in the City of Carlisle for private off-licences of this nature to supplement the service given under the State Management Scheme? Will he consider seriously the possibility of modifying the scheme?

There- is power for the Secretary of State to authorise the sale of liquor by persons other than through the State Management Scheme in Carlisle, and we did make an exception for Carrow House, a country hotel. Mrs. Cheetham's application was on behalf of the inhabitants of Currock, and even had we granted the application the inhabitants of Currock would have had to take a considerable journey in order to obtain the facilities which they desired at Mrs. Cheetham's establishment. We therefore thought it right not to accede to it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will set up a committee of inquiry into the results achieved by the system of preventive detention with a view to ascertaining the extent to which in its effects the system is reformative or merely punitive.

Although the primary object of preventive detention is to protect society from persistent offenders, the Prison Commissioners do what they can to reform prisoners in this category. In view of the length of the sentences, there has not been time to assess their effects, but some preliminary studies are in hand. In these circumstances, I do not think that the appointment of a committee of inquiry is necessary at present.

Is the Home Secretary aware, particularly in the case of nuisance offenders, of the feeling of hopelessness engendered by a ten-year sentence? In any inquiries he makes, will the right hon. Gentleman pay particular regard to the provision of craft training and industrial employment, if possible outside prison, for the second-stage detainee?

Yes, Sir. If the hon. Member wishes to put any point to me, I shall be glad for him to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the fact that immigrants from the Colonies and from the Republic of Eire together represented 70 per cent. of those convicted of living on immoral earnings in the Metropolitan Police area during 1956, he will now consider introducing legislation to permit the deportation of such criminals.

I regret that I am unable to add to the Answers which I gave to my hon. Friend on 28th February and 4th July last.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that 60 per cent. of those convicted of living on immoral earnings are immigrants from Commonwealth countries which have power to deport the nationals of the United Kingdom? Does not he consider that such countries would freely concede our right to introduce reciprocal legislation with regard to such repulsive crimes?

First, we must get this matter in proportion. The 106 persons convicted in the Metropolitan Police District in 1956 of living on immoral earnings included 37 Maltese, 18 from West Africa, 11 from the Republic of Ireland, and 31 from the United Kingdom. Were we to depart from the traditional British rule that the Mother Country does not deport British people of this sort, we should be making a departure which would be inadvisable and too profound.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that hon. Members on this side of the House welcome this statement? Is he aware that statistics can prove almost anything, and that if they are used in a smear campaign against people from Commonwealth countries it will not be approved of by hon. Members on either side of the House?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is no question of any smear campaign but that it is a question of bringing the facts before him? In view of the preponderance of this crime among colonial immigrants, does not my right hon. Friend consider that we should do something in the matter?

I realise that this is a very serious matter, and I am certain that my lion. Friend does not wish to introduce it as a smear campaign. There are certain traditions in this country about the rights of those who come into the country and those who go out, and if we depart from them we shall get into greater difficulties than if we take action in this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that there have been further cases recently of the use of flick-knives for the commission of assaults; whether his attention has been drawn to the remarks of the learned judge at Durham Assizes recently that, if he could, he would make it an offence for anyone to sell flick-knives; and whether he will reconsider his decision in respect of legislation banning the sale of these knives to young persons.

I have seen reports of some recent prosecutions arising out of the use of flick-knives; and the rider recommending prohibition of their sale which was added to their verdict by the jury and endorsed by the Judge in a recent case is now before me. I am giving the matter careful consideration, but in view of the extensive powers which the police already have to deal with this problem under the Prevention of Crimes Act, 1953, I am not at present convinced that legislation of the kind proposed by the hon. Member is necessary.

Is not that a shocking thing? Is not the Minister aware that there have been murders committed by the use of these flick-knives since I last put the question? Is he aware that a judge said:

"What an invention of the devil is a flick-knife, which unhappily so often features in crimes of violence in this country, often committed by young people."

I have consulted a number of chief constables, who reply that such people as farmers, fishermen, butchers, coblers, blacksmiths and electricians use these knives. Therefore, legislation would be very difficult. I have inquired where these knives come from, and I find that a large number come from abroad. I understand from my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade that there are considerable difficulties in placing a ban on these particular imports. I have to rely, therefore, upon the Prevention of Crimes Act, 1953, which makes it an offence to carry a thing of this sort.

This is a most unsatisfactory reply. I beg to ask leave to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the figures given in the White Paper on Offences of Drunkenness which show an increase of convictions for the year 1956 of nearly 10 per cent., and the increase in drunkenness among young people, he will use the resources of his Department to initiate a national campaign calling attention to the need for greater educational efforts by all responsible bodies to counteract this tendency in our national life.

I share the hon. Member's concern, though it is only fair to say that the number of convictions remains proportionately small. As regards educational measures, the Ministry of Education's pamphlet on health education draws attention to the need for good sense and self-control in the use of alcohol, the Service Departments have advised those concerned with the welfare of the Forces to take all appropriate opportunities of emphasising the virtue of moderation in drinking, and similar advice is given by some of the main voluntary youth organisations.

I am obliged to the Home Secretary for his sympathy, but is he aware that the Ministry of Education circular, which used to be used in schools on this subject, has been very seriously modified until it is now almost no use at all? Will he take up the matter with his right hon. Friend with a view to the original unmodified circular being reintroduced?

I will certainly look at that suggestion and consult my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will recommend the mobile police in the Metropolis to warn motorists, where necessary, to keep into the left, to leave a gap between themselves and the vehicle in front except when they intend to overtake, and generally to attempt to break up long queues of slow-moving traffic.

Operational matters of this kind must be left to the Commissioner of Police. He informs me that the subjects mentioned in the Question are covered by standing instructions to traffic patrols.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I wanted this Question to apply to all the police and not just to the Metropolitan Police but that I had difficulty in drafting the Question in that way? Does he not think that, if the police were encouraged to do this much more, there would be substantial relief to the present long and interminable queues of motorists.

I hope that forces outside the Metropolitan area will notice my hon. and gallant Friend's ingenuity and persistence on a subject which is very important.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what recommendations he has made to the Metropolitan Police in respect of

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in future publications of criminal statistics

I am informed by the Commissioner of Police that traffic patrols escorting large slow-moving vehicles or observing difficulties in the case of unescorted vehicles require the vehicles to be stopped periodically to allow following traffic to clear. There are very few lay-byes in the Metropolitan Police District suitable for the accommodation of vehicles carrying abnormally heavy loads.

If it is practicable, can the police be encouraged to do this more frequently?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will provide figures showing the murder rates of children and old people, respectively, during the past five years or other convenient period.

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table giving statistics for the years 1952–56 and for the first nine months of 1957.

I agree that it would be useful to give in the annual volume of Criminal Statistics some further particulars about the ages of victims of murder, and I shall consider how this information can best be given in future volumes.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there has been an idea gaining credence in the public mind that the murder rate has increased, particularly in respect of young children and old people? Does he not think it would be extremely helpful if we could have further and better particulars on this point?

Yes, Sir, I will see what I can do.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will transfer to the appropriate local councils the authority to decide on the desirability of maintaining or demolishing air-raid shelters.

I think it is desirable to retain central control in the interests of uniformity of practice and as the whole cost of demolition, in approved cases, is reimbursed to the local authority by the Exchequer.

While that may be all very well in theory, in practice many of these air-raid shelters are unsafe and insanitary and the breeding ground of pests. Will not the right hon. Gentleman trust local authorities a little more and give them a little more of the freedom about which we hear in his propaganda?

Shelters are demolished on Home Office authority at public expense if they are unsound, if their removal is essential for medical reasons, or if they obstruct road traffic or building development, and we continue to use that power.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps he is taking to reduce the incidence of crimes of violence against the person, especially in regard to youths, aged between 17 and 21 years, in respect to whom the number of those found guilty of this offence rose from 380 in 1948 to 1,220 in 1956.

I am concerned at this and other features of the incidence and pattern of crime as shown by recent statistics. I have constantly under review, in consultation with the Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders and others, those preventive and reformative measures that are open to me; and I hope that the inquiry into crimes of violence which the Cambridge Department of Criminal Science are conducting will provide valuable information about the nature and extent of the problem. It is not, however, as my hon. Friend will understand, one that can be solved solely by Government action.

In view of the growing disquiet in the country at the increase of this type of crime, would my right hon. Friend consider restoring to the courts the power to order corporal punishment, especially birching for bad boys?

On the question of corporal punishment, I think we have to decide whether it should be for a criminal offence or not, and I am not at present persuaded that to make it a punishment for a criminal offence would be successful.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many persons were prosecuted in the last convenient annual period for carrying out, or conniving at, attempts to procure abortion; what were the results; and how many of the persons charged were registered medical practitioners, nurses, or midwives.

As the answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Can the Home Secretary say whether, in the first place, the figures are showing a tendency to go up or down; and secondly, whether he is satisfied that the law on this very difficult subject is really in keeping with modern social thinking and medical practice?

The actual figures, as the hon. Lady will see, are given only for 1956, so I would have to send her a comparison with previous years.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many former British officials of the Egyptian Government have applied for assistance to the Anglo-Egyptian Resettlement Board, and with what result; what alternative schemes have been submitted to him for assisting these British subjects; and whether he will make a statement.

I understand that the Board has received twenty-eight such applications, of which seven have been granted, eleven have been refused and ten are being examined. As regards the second part of the Question, representations have been made that former officials of the Egyptian Government dismissed in 1951 should be treated on the same footing for ex gratia loans as British subjects who were compelled to leave Egypt as a result of the events of last year; but their circumstances are not the same.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the injustice to which these people have been subjected has been going on for far too long, and will he urge upon his right hon. Friend that a statement be made and say that the position must be given the highest priority for consideration?

Yes, Sir, so long as we do not confuse the two classes of persons, namely, the officials of 1951 and before and the residents. I would say that we would do our best for all of them, but there are different considerations affecting the two categories.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department in how many of the 2,300 cases in which cars were towed away by the Metropolitan Police for improper parking a prosecution followed, and in how many cases a conviction; and whether it is his intention to intensify or to relax this form of traffic discipline.

Up to date figures are not available, but I am informed by the Commissioner of Police that of the 750 cases on which action was completed by 30th September, 232 had led to prosecutions. All but three of the drivers concerned were convicted. The police are taking and will continue to take appropriate action under the Regulations, within the limits of their resources.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether overflying rights in the High Commission Territories for defence purposes have now been granted to the Union of South Africa.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement on the defence agreement between the United Kingdom and the Union of South Africa; to what extent the native authorities in the High Commission Territories were consulted; and if objections have been made by chiefs or other representatives of the African population to the establishment of South African-controlled radar stations in the Protectorates.

As the answer is rather long, will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

May I thank my hon. Friend for that extremely helpful answer and ask whether the answer he proposes to circulate indicates increasing co-operation between Britain and the Union of South Africa on defence matters affecting both the Atlantic and the Indian Oceans?

Discussions on defence co-operation between the United Kingdom and South Africa have been proceeding for some time.

Will the hon. Gentleman reply to the specific points in my question? The first is whether he is aware that the native Basutoland authorities, the Congress and the chiefs are highly critical of this proposal? The second is whether he is particularly aware that they fear greatly the manning of any radar stations in their territory by South African personnel?

One reason why the answer is rather long is that the Member has included three questions in his main Question. The High Commissioner has received representations from Basutoland and Swaziland authorties about defence discussions, to which I refer in the answer which will be circulated.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what steps he is taking to resolve the difficulties in British-Indian relations arising out of the difference of view regarding the Kashmir situation.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to his Question on 21st March. Her Majesty's Government remain anxious to play their full part in securing a just solution to this difficult problem. To this end, we have joined the United States, Australia, Colombia and the Philippines in sponsoring a resolution which was tabled in the Security Council on 16th November and which is still under consideration there. The resolution is designed both to reduce tension in the sub-continent and to further the process of negotiation between the parties, through the agency of the United Nations, on the specific issues raised in its earlier resolutions.

Is the hon. Member aware that the resolution of the United Nations is likely to mean very little except to incur the maximum of feeling and the minimum of effect? Why is it so necessary for Her Majesty's Government to take a specific view about this difficult problem when they are so careful to avoid taking any view when any other Commonwealth country is involved and whenever South African affairs are before the United Nations?

I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's point as to the nature of the resolution, which was sponsored by the United States, ourselves and other members of the Security Council. I would only add that a proposal is not bad simply because it does not please both sides.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will consider the appointment of a commission of inquiry into the development of light industry and commercial and entertainment undertakings in Basutoland.

The possibilities of further commercial development especially amongst the Basuto are already well recognised. As far as light industry is concerned, development largely depends upon the provision of power and possible hydro-electric schemes are under investigation. At present certain possibilities which are not dependent upon large-scale supplies of power are being examined in consultation with the Colonial Development Corporation. I am not clear what the hon. Member has in mind when he refers to entertainment undertakings.

While appreciating part of the hon. Gentleman's reply, may I ask him whether, in view of the recent decision of the Government of the Union of South Africa that Basutos may not cross the frontier, either for shopping or entertainment, it is not desirable that these should be provided in Basutoland itself?

I did confirm in my original answer that the possibility of further commercial development especially among Basutos is well recognised. If the hon. Gentleman has any particular proposal and any information in regard to entertainment facilities, I shall be only too glad to have them.

asked the Minister of Education figures showing the number of children taking school meals in October, 1956, and at the latest available date since the increased charge.

3,058,702 last autumn, but the influenza epidemic has so far prevented our getting the comparable figure for this year.

While welcoming the new Minister of Education to the Dispatch Box and wishing him well in his office, may I ask whether he is aware that the information for which I have asked him is now able to be supplied by a number of local education authorities? My own, in Hampshire, reveals that there has been a decline of 12 per cent. in the number of children taking school meals. If the figures, when we get them, reveal a decline all over the country in the number of children taking part in this very important service, will the Minister consult his right hon. Friends to see what can be done?

This is a very important service, but my own information from some authorities does not indicate anything like the decline mentioned by the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Education if he is aware that the £80,000 contribution by parents towards a school in the diocese of Salford costing £165,000 would, because of new interest rates, mean their having ultimately to provide £200,000; and if he will consider reducing the additional burdens imposed in this and other cases.

The hon. Member has been good enough to give me the name of the school he has in mind, and my inquiries show that the school was largely completed before the increase in Bank Rate. The Governors did not apply to me for a loan.

Does not the fantastic increase in interest rates mean that parents who, by voluntary financial sacrifice have been paying twice for education, will now have to pay three times? Does not this make a difficult task impossible?

The hon. Gentleman is raising a rather wider point than in his original Question, but it may be useful if it gives me the opportunity to emphasise that by applying to the Ministry for a loan about 25 per cent. of this increased burden could have been saved.

asked the Minister of Education, in view of the recent increase in the Bank Rate, if he will consider providing loans at low interest rates for the school building programme, or, alternatively, raising to 75 per cent. the present Government grant of 50 per cent. of the cost of building church schools.

No, Sir.

Does not the Minister agree that an entirely new situation has been created which makes the burden unfair, unanticipated and intolerable? What are these parents to do?

That is a broader question, which I agree is a serious one.

Quite apart from the 7 per cent. Bank Rate, would not my right hon. Friend consider the question of church schools in a new light? It is almost impossible for the church communities to go on suffering under the disabilities they have under the Act of 1944. After this passage of time, surely there is need of revision? It would be a bad thing if this matter were to become a political issue. Would not my right hon. Friend consider meeting deputations from both sides of the House on this issue of the revision of the Act of 1944?

I could not decline to receive a deputation. In fact, I have already had discussions with some of the members of the hierarchy on this subject.

asked the Minister of Education if he will reconsider his decision not to implement the recommendations by his working party on maintenance allowances for children in secondary schools over school-leaving age.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that his predecessor was advised by a group of experts in a report called "Early Leavers on the importance of making provision for more children to stay on at grammar schools, that his predecessor was also advised by a group of experts to make much more generous provision for maintenance allowances for these children than so far he has been willing to grant? While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for what he has done, may I ask if he will look again at this question?

The working party to which the hon. Member has referred had among its members many distinguished educationists. My predecessor did in fact adopt most of its recommendations. He was not, however, able to adopt this particular one, but I think it fair to say that what he did was to make the cost of these allowances two-and-a-half to three times higher than it had ever been before.

Is it not the case that the allowances at present paid are very much below the recommendation of the working party and that a new approach to the recommendations of the working party might do much to encourage children to stay longer at school?

Naturally it is a question of degree. Having read the report, I think it fair to say that one can take different views of the very complicated points that were considered.

asked the Minister of Education the number of schools already built, and those already started, for the reorganisation of rural post-primary education, and the number of schools still necessary to complete the five-year plan.

33, 147 and 226, respectively.

Is the Minister aware that tile best job that was done in this House by his last predecessor but one was to announce the five-year programme for the elimination of the all-age school in the countryside, and that at present local authorities which have been carrying on with that plan have had soma; of the schools he has mentioned this afternoon cut out of their programmes? Will he give this matter his very earnest consideration?

I can give the hon. Member the consolation that, of the 226 schools in the last category, 82 are still on the approved building programme, and so can be started.

asked the Minister of Education what instructions he has given to local education authorities as to the examination for active pulmonary tuberculosis of those engaged in the preparation and serving of school meals.

Circular 248 dealt with this subject and I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been draw to a case in Clitheroe in which a domestic worker in the school meals service, suffering from active tuberculosis, apparently caused this disease in one form or another certainly in thirteen school children and possibly in thirty? Would he take special care to see that those engaged in the preparation of school meals are healthy people?

Certainly. I will examine this matter further, and I shall be grateful for details, which perhaps the hon. Member will give me. I should also tell the House that I will now look at this circular again in the light of a Report by the Standing Tuberculosis Advisory Committee of the Central Health Service which we have just received.

In view of the vulnerability of schoolchildren to this disease, would the Minister give an undertaking that all those who are engaged in handling school meals will be examined?

I should not like to do that without consultations, but I see the importance of what the hon. Lady suggests and I will examine it carefully and let her know the result.