asked the Minister of Supply if he will give the terms of reference of the committee inquiring into the aircraft industry.

asked the Minister of Supply when he expects the interdepartmental examination of the aircraft industry to be completed.

asked the Minister of Supply (1) whether the Departmental committee which he has set up to review the future of the aircraft manufacturing industry will be willing to receive representations from trades unions representing workers in industry;

(2) whether the Departmental committee which he has set up to review the future of the aircraft manufacturing industry will be empowered, within its terms of reference, to consider the possibility of diversification of the industry's products.

The purpose of the study by senior officials of the Departments concerned is to assess the national importance of the industry and, in the light of this assessment and of recent defence changes, to make recommendations to Ministers on future Government policy towards the industry and, in particular, on the scale on which the Government should continue to support aeronautical research. As decisions are reached, I shall, of course, make statements, and I would hope to be able to make a statement on Government policy on the research question before the spring.

It would militate against early decisions to formalise the inter-departmental study and to arrange for representations by outside bodies. I myself, however, am always happy to receive the leaders of the trade unions as well as of the employers, and the views of both will be borne in mind when decisions are made. The inter-departmental study will certainly take account of the possibility of diversifying the industry's products, but action on this lies primarily with the industry itself.

May I thank the Minister for his very full reply and ask him if he is aware that it will give satisfaction to those of us who are interested in the industry? May we also take it from what he says that this committee is not a Treasury-dominated committee seeking simply to effect economies, but is setting out to see if it can put the industry on a sounder basis and enable it to expand and develop?

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. No, this is not a Treasury-dominated study, but, of course, it is really difficult to exclude the Treasury from any major question of Government policy.

asked the Minister of Supply what steps he proposes to take to bring about greater integration of the aircraft industry other than by the placing of contracts.

The industry's own concern for its future well-being and the power of awarding contracts possessed by the Government as the industry's largest customer should together bring about greater integration.

Whilst accepting that the Government are the industry's biggest customers, does not the right hon. Gentleman consider that if greater integration takes place as a result of movement within the industry—and as it is mainly supported by public funds—the Government should take responsibility for greater integration into larger units, or perhaps into one unit, and therefore see that there is some public accountability and responsibility by the industry to the Government?

Surely there are two things here. The Government ought certainly, in my view, to use their position as customers to encourage integration. On the other hand, I would consider it quite wrong for the Government to suggest that A should associate or amalgamate with B. I am trying to do the first and to avoid the second, which I think is undesirable.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it would be easier for the industry to facilitate its future if he and his right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence were to be clear in their own minds about their future requirements at least for the next two years?

I think that if my hon. Friend will consult the industry it will tell him that I endeavour to inform it of future programmes as soon as they are, in fact, known to me.

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration he has given to the development of aircraft production in existing units in Scotland.

The aircraft industry in Scotland has been less affected by recent defence changes than the industry elsewhere. As for the future, Scottish companies or companies with factories in Scotland will be given every opportunity of competing for contracts for which they are suitable.

In view of the fact that there is likely to be greater integration within the industry and that the Government's policy is to force such integration by the placing of contracts, can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that as integration takes place there will be no diminution or, perhaps, an ending of the aircraft industry in Scotland? Will the right hon. Gentleman see that contracts are placed with the Scottish aircraft industry so that it can be sustained and expanded?

I think it follows from what I have said that the aircraft industry in Scotland is relatively well placed. On the other hand, as I said last week, the industry has to face some degree of contraction, and it would be quite wrong. I think, for Scotland to expect exemption from this contraction.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that Scotland is very grateful to the Minister and to the Government for giving financial aid and, technical assistance to Scottish Aviation Limited in the production of the Prestwick Pioneer, which unhappily crashed yesterday?

I would express my regrets and that of the whole House at what happened yesterday, and at the death of the firm's managing director.

While associating this side of the House with the latter remarks of the Minister, may I ask him whether his Department has come to any conclusion about that part of the factory in Dumbarton which is owned by the Ministry of Supply?

No, Sir. I have indicated to the Blackburn Aircraft Company that the Government would like to lease their part of the entire factory to a fresh tenant, but no fresh tenant has yet been found.

asked the Minister of Supply what steps he is taking to ensure that technical and managerial personnel in the aircraft manufacturing industry who are made redundant by the present run-down in the industry will not be lost to this country.

It is not the policy of Her Majesty's Government to prevent emigration, but one of the purposes of recent defence changes was to release skilled personnel for the many other needs existing for them in this country, and it is the Government's hope that displaced scientists and engineers will take advantage of the opportunities awaiting them here.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a greater chance of these displaced persons taking advantage of other opportunities in this country if they are told well in advance of changes taking place in the industry? Does that not underline the danger of the present arrangement under which many of these changes are taking place among the boards of the companies concerned without the technical and managerial personnel being told until the very last moment?

As I said in answer to an earlier supplementary question, I endeavour to let the industry know of impending changes as soon as they are known to me. So far as I know, firms take their staffs into their confidence.

asked the Minister of Supply how far, and for what reasons, it is intended that rubber should replace leather for the soles of soldiers' boots.

To meet War Office requirements, a boot with a composition sole has been developed. Tests of this and of boots with leather soles are proceeding. A decision on the boot to be adopted for general service will be taken when tests have been completed.

asked the Minister of Supply, in view of the reductions in the supply of military aircraft and other equipment for the Forces, how far he is reducing the staff in his Department; and to what extent he contemplates a reduction in expenditure.

In reply to the first part of the Question, I would refer the right hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Sir A. V. Harvey) on 11th November and add that further staff reductions are being made in the second half of this financial year. As regards the second part of the Question, I am unable to anticipate next year's Estimates.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say to what extent there has been a reduction in staff?

Yes, Sir. As was indicated to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Macclesfield a few weeks ago, the reductions which had taken place in this financial year were so far of the order of 7,000. I would expect another 2,000 to 3,000 in the course of the remainder of the financial year, a total of 9,000 to 10,000, which I would say would be a reduction of about 10 per cent.

Will this mean a reduction in expenditure?

Yes, Sir, of course; it will mean some reduction in expenditure, but offhand I could not give a figure.

asked the Minister of Supply how many scientists are employed by his Department; and what is the nature of their employment.

There are 3,962 officers of the two senior classes of scientists and 1,423 scientific assistants in the Ministry of Supply. The great majority are employed at establishments on research and development work to meet the requirements of the Fighting Services, principally the Army and the Royal Air Force. Much of this research, however, has civil as well as military applications.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say, in view of the large number of scientists, technologists and technicians employed by his Department, what are the notable achievements in the military sphere for which they have been responsible? Can the right hon. Gentleman indicate what they are?

Yes, Sir. I would have thought that British bombers were certainly equal to American bombers. They are the product not entirely of the Minister of Supply; the firms come into it. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will recognise this tribute to British achievement.

is that the right hon. Gentleman's opinion, or is it the general consensus of opinion in this country, the United States and N.A.T.O., that we have the best military aircraft?

I would have thought that I was choosing an example of the general consensus of opinion. Quite apart from that, let us take surface-to-air guided missiles. If the right hon. Gentleman will canvass opinion on the European Continent today he will find that, by and large, European opinion is more favourably disposed to British surface-to-air guided missiles than to American.

asked the Minister of Supply what action his Department has sponsored to overcome the technical problems of the Proteus turbo-jet aero engine during 1957.

All promising solutions for the special icing problems besetting the Proteus turbo-propeller engine have received technical and financial support from my Department. A committee under the chairmanship of the Director of the Royal Aircraft Establishment has served as the focal point for investigations and Ministry of Supply Research Establishments have lent every assistance.

Has my right hon. Friend brought the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation in to help to solve these problems?

Yes, Sir. Both the commercial operators and, I think I am right in saying, the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation have been represented on the Gardner Committee.

asked the Minister of Supply to what extent it is his intention to reduce the expenditure on research and development on manned aircraft and guided missiles; and whether he will make a statement.

I cannot anticipate the Defence White Paper and the Defence Estimates for next year.

There is a great deal of uncertainty about all this. No one seems to know, not even the Government themselves, what the policy is, if there is to be a reduction in this field, are we not entitled to some advance information?

I have observed a great deal of speculation on this matter, much of it I think quite wild and off the mark. Surely the hon. Gentleman will not expect me to anticipate decisions which are normally given in the Defence White Paper.

asked the Minister of Supply what orders he obtained for British aircraft as the result of his recent talks in Bonn with the West German Defence Minister.

My recent talks with the West German Defence Minister were concerned with closer Anglo-German co-operation on defence research and development and covered a wide range of projects, including in particular surface-to-air missiles and aircraft. Discussions continue.

is not this evidence of the horrible mess in which the British aircraft industry finds itself, with a Conservative Minister of Supply—according to reports which have not been denied—going around the Continent peddling British aircraft to the German Government? A decision on this matter was going to be indicated some time this month. What is the result of the right hon. Gentleman's activities as a salesman?

I trust the hon. Gentleman will not believe everything that the papers happen to say about me, or will expect me to deny everything that the papers have to say about me. The purpose of my visit to Bonn was perfectly simple. Herr Strauss was over here in the spring discussing research and development, and I continued the discussions last month when I was in Bonn. Matters of this kind do not reach finality very quickly, and, as I said in my answer to the main Question, the discussions continue.

The answer is unsatisfactory.

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration he has given to the proposal that the Royal Aeronautical Establishment at Farnborough should be closed as an economy measure; and if he will make a statement.

I have not heard of any such proposal. The Royal Aircraft Establishment is currently engaged on vital research work in connection with guided weapons and other advanced types of defence equipment as well as manned aircraft for both military and civil purposes.

The Establishment has a proud record. It has for many years played a leading part in keeping British aviation and research in the forefront. In the future its importance is likely to be equally great in the new field of guided weapons.

If the Minister has not heard of these rumours, I can assure him that other people have. It will give great satisfaction to them to have his denial that there is any intention of closing this establishment. Further, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman not to be stampeded by anything my right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) said and not to carry his economies down to Farnborough?

I agree that I had heard of the rumours but I had not heard of proposals. Rumours and proposals are very often things very far apart.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not allow himself to be unduly encouraged by what has been said by my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Beswick), who frequently changes his mind on this subject?

I hoped that I was observing a very nice balance between the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Supply what progress is being made towards the development of an atomic-powered aircraft in the United Kingdom.

My Department, jointly with the Atomic Energy Authority, has been for some time engaged in a thorough assessment of the operational advantages and engineering possibilities of atomic-powered aircraft. The problems involved are, however, formidable, and great expenditure is not considered justifiable at this stage.

Bearing in mind the importance of the aircraft industry to this country, and also that the United States and Russia have made considerable advance in this field, will the right hon. Gentleman make sure that adequate attention is given to the problem as soon as practicable?

Attention is being given to this problem, but at the moment it lies in the field of fundamental research, which I think is the great strength of this country as against, for instance, the United States of America. What I was saying in my Answer is that it is far better to continue fundamental research to a point at which we can be satisfied about the future line of development than to plunge prematurely into applied research.

asked the Minister of Supply what expenditure ha, been incurred by his Department on South Uist Rocket Range.

None, Sir.

Can the hon. Gentleman assure us that he has not purchased for South Uist the type of rocket that exploded last week in the United States of America?

I can certainly assure the hon. Member of that.

asked the Minister of Health whether, pending the introduction of new mental health legislation, he will so amend his regulations as to ensure that mental patients are permitted to write, without restriction, to Members of Parliament.

This would require legislation, and, as I informed the hon. Member on 11th November, this is under consideration.

Will the Minister bear in mind that, with the present slapdash methods of certification, the fact that the Board of Control was set up primarily to safeguard the liberty of the individual is now made a fiasco? Will he urge that as soon as possible patients should be allowed to write to their Members of Parliament like anyone else?

There are many good arguments for this course, but I cannot include among them the reference to slapdash certification, which I do not accept from the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that local authorities have in some cases approved doctors, for purposes of certification, who have no psychiatric practice other than their certifying duties and no continuing interest in the patients they recommend for admission to hospital; and, in view of his expressed intention to start implementing the recommendations of the Royal Commission by administrative means, if he will instruct local authorities to cease employing such doctors forthwith.

My information is that, for the purposes for which their approval is required, local health authorities generally approve medical practitioners who are experienced in the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders, many of whom are directly employed by them in the exercise of their wider responsibilities for mental health services: this is, in fact, what the Royal Commission has recommended on this point.

Despite what my right hon. and learned Friend says, may I ask whether he is not aware of the remarks of a prominent member of the Royal Medico Psychological Association in a paper to the Royal Society of Health in which he asked—

"Can we be sure of eliminating the certifying doctor approved by the local authority?"

in the same terms as I have put in my Question? Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware likewise that a great many of the unsatisfactory cases of certification are connected with doctors of this kind, and will he consider this matter very closely and perhaps take action?

I have stated what I understand to be the general practice and its relation to the recommendations of the Royal Commission. Of course, if my hon. Friend has any particular cases in mind, I will naturally look at them if he will be good enough to draw them to my attention.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not agree that the very fact that these doctors are approved doctors means that they are doctors of known competence?

Yes, certainly, I think the right hon. Lady and the House can be assured of that and, as I say, my understanding is that the local health authorities follow a satisfactory procedure in this matter.

asked the Minister of Health under what circumstances patients at the Rampton Mental Hospital are required to scrub the stone floors in D.1. Block; what cleaning materials are supplied for the operation; what precautions are taken to ensure that injury is not caused to the knees or hands of the patients required to do this work; what are the maximum number of hours per day a mental defective can be engaged on such a task; and what are the curative benefits expected from such work.

This scrubbing is part of the normal cleaning operations of the ward and the cleaning materials supplied are buckets, water, soap, scrubbing brushes and floor cloths. Rubber kneeling mats are provided to protect the knees. The maximum time a patient may be employed is the normal working period of about six hours, of which about four hours might be on actual scrubbing. Among the curative benefits of such work, and of all the occupational training, are the satisfaction of honest work, the instillation of the rudiments of hygiene, and the soothing effect on disturbed patients.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not appreciate that people who are sent to Rampton are mental defectives and do not have—or should not have—the faculties possessed by people outside? Does he really believe that to kneel for four hours on a stone floor scrubbing—not with soap, but with sand and water—is the best way for these poor devils to be brought back again to the community?

I do not think the hon. Member can have listened to my Answer with his customary attention, for I included soap among the list of materials supplied for this normal cleaning process. As I said in my Answer, I think this work is suitable; it does no harm and can do good to the patients in question.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the rule that adult patients in good health at the Rampton Mental Hospital must go to bed at 8 p.m., why they are required to go to bed at 7.30 p.m. even during the summer months.

In order that all patients may be in bed before the night staff come on duty at 8 p.m., preparations have to begin soon after 7 p.m.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman really believe that the best way to get adults healthy and back into the community is to send them to bed in the summer at 7.30 p.m. like naughty children? If he is to stay in his office, will he have an investigation made into what is going on at Rampton, as I am sure he and others would be shocked?

It is not a question of being sent to bed at that hour like naughty children. Putting about 1,000 patients to bed in these circumstances is a major operation which takes a good time to perform. The night staff is a much smaller force and could not adequately cope with this job.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a special capital grant to the North-East Metropolitan Hospital board for the purpose of rebuilding the maternity wards of North Middlesex Hospital.

I am not satisfied that, with so many other calls on the money available, this proposal should be given the priority suggested.

Is the Minister aware that this maternity unit, which draws patients from a large area—possibly including his constituency—has a very high reputation as a post-graduate teaching school but is housed in 1914–18 war Army huts, which are quite unsuitable for use as a maternity unit?

I am sure the hon. Member appreciates that the question of priorities within the regional allocation is one for the regional hospital board. This hospital, as he will know, has had a good share of the resources of the central fund for major capital works.

As one who served on this hospital committee for seven years—some twenty years ago—I know that at that time this work was considered to be of a priority nature. Will not the Minister reconsider what he has said, because my hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton (Mr. Albu) is quite right; this hospital is situated in one of the most congested areas of London?

Yes, but the right hon. Lady will appreciate that this is primarily a question for the regional hospital hoard, which has not included the rebuilding of the maternity wards in the short list of major schemes it has recommended for my consideration. We have no doubt that it will seek to see that a new maternity department takes its proper place in the future schemes for the hospital.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has any proposals to make regarding the future employment of hospital registrars whose appointments are due to terminate in a few months' time.

asked the Minister of Health if he will set up an impartial committee with a lay chairman to examine the position of senior registrars' and consultants' posts and the remuneration for trained consultants and specialists.

asked the Minister of Health if he has yet reached a decision as to the future of senior registrars who have completed four years in their grade.

I am already in consultation with the profession on the position of senior registrars who have completed the normal term of service in the grade but have not obtained higher appointments. There is, therefore, no need for a special committee on the subject. Questions of remuneration are being considered by the Royal Commission on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration.

is the right hon. and learned Gentleman satisfied that he is in consultation with people who are fully representative of this group of hospital staff? Is he satisfied that he is not taking his advice purely from a very small and not fully representative section?

I certainly had not heard that suggestion before. My consultations with the Joint Consultants Committee are, I think, very satisfactory.

Is the Minister aware that there are 400 senior registrars fully trained, and, furthermore, they cannot get recognised for consultant posts? Is it not crystal clear that both the Ministry itself and the consultants' organisation have failed in their duty to these people?

The figure of 400 included large groups who had either not completed four years' training or were unlikely to be seeking ordinary consultant posts. The latest figure available to me of senior registrars in this position was 90, together with another 136 who were in their fourth year of training and who might, therefore, encounter the same difficulties. I say that to put the figures straight, but, of course, I do appreciate that there is a real problem here.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the shortage of radiographers at Oldchurch Hospital, Romford; and what action is being taken to improve this situation at the earliest possible moment.

I am aware of the position, both at Oldchurch Hospital and generally. On the action taken, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Walthamstow, West (Mr. Redhead) on 2nd December.

Is the Minister not aware that the situation is now so bad that the medical superintendent of Oldchurch Hospital has sent a circular to all doctors in the area served asking them to be even more selective in the patients they send to the out-patients department? Does this not mean that many people who should be receiving treatment will not receive it, and does he think that he is encouraging the recruitment of radiographers and other technicians in the National Health Service in view of the veto he put on the pay award which was granted?

I see that a basic grade radiographer was recruited to this hospital on 18th November and an assistant radiographer on 11th November. Both these recruitments took place after the action to which the hon. Gentleman has incorrectly applied the word "veto".

asked the Minister of Health what is the average number of patients per doctor in mental hospitals and in general hospitals, respectively.

I regret that information in the form required is not readily available. I am, however, writing to the hon. Member.

Can the Minister at least say whether it is the fact that there is a disturbingly large number of cases per doctor in the mental hospitals of the country, and will he bear that in mind when considering the report of the Willink Committee which seems to suggest that, in a few years' time, there may be too many doctors in the country?

The point is that no analysis of medical staff by type of hospital has been made, which is what the hon. Lady asked for; but it would be possible to do a comparison in relation to departments, in other words, by type of beds. That is the information which I propose to send to the hon. Lady when I write to her.

asked the Minister of Health if he will publish in HANSARD a table of figures giving the six lowest financial grades of hospital workers, their hours of work, moneys received and the approximate number of workers in each grade, giving male and female staff, respectively.

Yes, Sir.

Do not these figures show that these workers are amongst the lowest-paid section of the population, and is it not rather immoral of the Government to stop the wage increases recommended to these workers whilst at the same time paying hundreds of pounds a year extra to members of nationalised boards, who are already receiving thousands of pounds a year in salary? Is it not immoral for the Government to give it in one instance and not in the other?

In regard to the first part of that supplementary question, the figures can best speak for themselves. In regard to the second part, the question of nationalised industries is not one for which I have responsibility.

asked the Minister of Health what is the present total number of mental nurses in the North-Eastern Regional Board area and the number for each mental hospital within the area; and how these compare with 12 months ago.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the Minister tell the House what he is doing about seeking to bring young people into this profession?

There is another Question on the Paper relating to this point. So far as recruitment is concerned

In view of the well-known shortage of mental nurses, would the right hon. and learned Gentleman not say that the time has now arrived when the wages of those nurses should be related to the wages received by other bright, intelligent young men and women in other professions? That is the fundamental problem.

As the right hon. Lady will know, there has been an increase in these pay scales and there is an increase in the number of recruits coming into this calling.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the monthly-paid nursing staff at a hospital within the Hartlepools Group did not receive their pay cheque on the day it was due; and what action he proposes to take to put this matter right.

I understand that the monthly salaries due at the end of

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the same thing will probably happen towards the end of December? Is it not now clear that his action in interfering with the ordinary mechanics of the Whitley Council has almost completely paralysed the administrative work of the hospital service?

No, Sir. I would say that the hon. Member is using the language of hyperbole in applying that description.

Is this not adding insult to injury? Is it not bad enough that the right hon. Gentleman has failed to apply a legitimate award? Having done that, he does not take care to see that the meagre pay that these people receive is paid on the due date.

If there are delays owing to the operation of this ban, I would, naturally, regret them; but that is not a factor which should dictate the decision which Parliament has placed upon Ministers in this context.

Does the Minister realise that his legalistic and rather pedantic replies satisfy nobody in this House? Does he also appreciate that some of his earlier answers in the House about the ban being operated by trade unions were wholly misleading?

It is quite clear that the hon. Member uses the word "legalistic" when others would use "accurate" and that he uses "pedantic" when others would say "free from prejudice".

asked the Minister of Health what so far has been the proportion of applicants for poliomyelitis inoculation to the total number who have been eligible to apply for it.

Approximately 40 per cent. up to 30th September.

Does not the figure the hon. Gentleman has just given suggest that the public relations side of the scheme is being rather inadequately handled? Bearing in mind that poliomyelitis could be stamped out in this country if a sufficient proportion of the population were inoculated, will he make sure that sufficient attention is given to the importance and utility of the scheme?

No, Sir, I do not think this matter has received undue lack of attention in the Press recently. I think the public is well aware of the facilities available.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make arrangements for a third dose of poliomyelitis vaccine to be given, if desired, to those persons who have received, or who are eligible for, inoculation with poliomyelitis vaccine.

I will consider this in the light of further medical advice on the poliomyelitis vaccination programme which I expect to receive shortly.

Bearing in mind that it is widely recognised that a third dose confers much higher protection than two doses and that the giving of three doses is the standard practice of the United States, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman see that this matter has all possible priority?

The hon. Gentleman uses the word "priority". This has, of course, to be taken in the context of the very considerable programme already placed upon the local health authorities in regard to the vaccination of the prescribed categories with the two injections.

But will not the Minister bear in mind that it has been revealed that two doses do not necessarily confer immunity? Would it not be better, therefore, to ensure that, as a result of giving a third dose, there are groups of people in the country who are effectively immunised rather than have a large number who may not be effectively immunised?

The evidence is not yet conclusive that a third injection is necessary to maintain an adequate level of protection, though I quite agree that it would appear that a third injection is likely to reinforce protection. On the other hand, as the right hon. Lady will appreciate, we have a very considerable programme in doing the initial two injections for all the prescribed categories. It is, therefore, a matter of making the best use of our resources.

asked the Minister of Health when he intends to allow the Middlesbrough Health Authority to invite tenders for the construction of a maternity and child welfare clinic at Park End, plans for which he has already approved.

I fear I cannot yet make any promise when my right hon. and learned Friend will be able to recommend loan sanction for this clinic.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I last raised this question in an Adjournment debate as long ago as July, 1956? Is he aware that in this case people living in 3,500 new houses are completely without proper provision for maternity and child welfare? Does he realise that the local authority has to use a church and the only place in which patients can be examined is a screened-off portion of the ladies' lavatory? How much longer is a local authority to be compelled to give conditions like this to the mothers and children on new housing estates? At a time when office buildings and great new shops are going up all over Middlesbrough, the local authority is forbidden to look after the mothers and children of the area.

Priority had to be given this year to schemes ready to start in 1956–57 which were stopped by the restrictions on investment in that year. My right hon. and learned Friend hopes that he may be able to recommend loan sanction in 1958–59, but this must not be regarded as a promise.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell his right hon. and learned Friend that all the drawings and everything else are ready for the work to start on this project which is badly wanted? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the whole area is disgusted at the lack of provision, and will he try to get this project into the early days of his programme for next year?

I have no doubt that my right hon. and learned Friend will take note of the right hon. Gentleman's remarks.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the more serious epidemics of influenza this winter, he will encourage the public to take all practical steps for self-protection, including oral vaccine courses.

I have no information that points to there being a need for reconsidering the arrangements already made or in train for vaccination against influenza.

Influenza has already taken a terrible toll in this country, and I understand that one newspaper, the Star, put to the right hon. and learned Gentleman an oral vaccine scheme, which his Ministry turned down because, of course, they lack imagination. Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman not aware that the Star has introduced it and that, in fact, it is proving a great success? Why does not the Ministry stop being so conservative and try to be a little imaginative? I do not mean "Conservative" in the right hon. and learned Gentleman's sense.

I was not taking that as a criticism. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the scientific evidence in support of the efficacy of oral vaccines against influenza is, in fact, slender, and so far as the Star newspaper is concerned, the result of its test, though it provided some evidence, cannot be regarded as significant in the context of recommending this vaccine.

asked the Minister of Health when he now expects to receive the Report of the Royal Commission on Doctors' Pay; and what guidance has been given to the Commission on the Government's general policy on salaries and wages.

It is too soon to specify any precise period for the Commission's inquiry, and so I have at present nothing to add to the reply I gave the hon. Member on 11th November, except in the negative sense that the report will not be ready until some considerable time after Easter. In regard to the second part of the Question, I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said in the House on 19th November.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that some considerable time after Easter is a very vague date? Does he mean to suggest that it might be at least before the House rises for the next Summer Recess, or has he in mind an even more remote objective?

It is not a question of my having an objective in mind. It is a question of the pace at which Sir Harry Pilkington and the members of the Commission are able to proceed, having regard to the evidence tendered to them, and so on. He has informed me that it will not be for some considerable time after Easter.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman at least give an assurance that the Royal Commission will not he expected to deal with wider economic matters, which are surely outside the terms of reference, and not in that way support the answer of his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister?

The Royal Commission will, of course, have regard to its terms of reference, on which I do not propose to put any gloss. The position of the Commission in regard to the general economic situation was put quite clearly by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, and I do not think I can usefully add to what he said.

If the Commission does make recommendations on salaries and wages, etc., may we have an assurance that there will not be a veto?

That is a hypothetical question deriving from a set of circumstances not strictly comparable or analagous.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the overtime ban that has been imposed by the Eastbourne Dental Estimates Board; and if he will make a statement, with particular reference to the effect of such a ban on statistics which are required by his Department.

I am aware that overtime is not at present being worked at the Dental Estimates Board. The approval of treatment and the payment of dentists is not being delayed. The statistics required by my Department are obtained from information provided over a period, and it is too early to say what the effect will be on this work.

As the Minister knows, he has given an optimistic reply. In fact, the Board is responsible for the whole of the statistics which his Ministry requires. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman has said, the statistics are obtained from information provided over a period, but within that period during which overtime is not worked his Ministry will be in serious trouble. What does the Minister intend to do about the position so far as the National Health Service is affected? Does he intend to leave matters as they are and do nothing about the situation? Is that the way he wants the Service to work?

I have always deprecated the institution of this overtime ban. So far as the Board is concerned, some of the staff were willing to continue working overtime, but others were not, and in those circumstances the Board decided that it was impracticable to organise overtime work. I should add that over the period of a year the average overtime worked by the staff of the Board has been rather less than two hours a week.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the returns which have to be made by dentists are of an exceedingly detailed nature, and although he has said that there is no confusion at present, there must be a time-lag between the receipt of those returns and the time when the Minister has appreciated that the failure to do the normal overtime work has resulted in certain chaos which he will be unable to remedy?

I naturally keep all these matters under very careful consideration and review, but I do not expect any chaos to arise.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will implement the recommendation of the Franks Committee that he should give reasons for his decision in cases of appeal from the Medical Practices Committee in respect of selections made for general practice vacancies.

I have already done so.

May I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for this reply and express gratitude, in view of the fact that there has been dissatisfaction amongst outside applicants for vacancies, which is emphasised by the figures which he recently supplied to me of practitioners in the same area who have filled these vacancies for practices?

asked the Minister of Health what financial assistance is to be given to local authorities who provide additional accommodation for mentally-confused cases as recommended in the Percy Report.

As my right hon. and learned Friend informed the hon. Member on 11th November, the recommendations of the Royal Commission are at present under consideration.

But is the Minister not aware that there was a definite undertaking given in the House that special financial provision would be made for the development of these local authority services for the mentally sick? Is he aware that, in the Bill now published, there is no provision of that kind? What representations have been made about it by his right hon. and learned Friend to the Minister of Housing and Local Government?

I think it would he premature for the Government to state their precise intentions in regard to financial provision for local authorities until consideration of all the information they have been getting has been concluded.

But is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the Bill has been presented to the House? Is he now saying that he is prepared to introduce Amendments at a later stage in order to provide for this before the passage of the Bill is completed?

No, Sir, I am not saying that; but these matters must be considered in the way I have already indicated.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise this matter on the Adjournment of the House.

asked the Minister of Health what is the percentage increase in wages and salaries paid to local government workers since 1948.

This is not a matter for which I have responsibility.

Is the Minister aware that, if he could obtain those figures, they would show that the local government service worker and the Civil Service worker have had wage increases which compare very favourably with the 34 per cent. wage increase of the National Health Service worker? Will he not undo the wrong he has done to this group of loyal men by reconsidering his decision not to apply the Whitley Council award?

If that is the matter which the hon. Gentleman has in mind, I would remind him that I have answered several questions in the House about it. This particular Question does not, in fact, raise that point.

On a point of order. The Minister has said that this is a question for which he is not responsible. Ought he not to have transferred it to the Minister who is responsible?

That is a matter for the Minister. It is not a point of order.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has considered the letter sent to him by the Blackburn and District Health Services branch of the National Association of Local Government Officers, informing him of their decision to operate an overtime ban in protest against the Government's veto on their recent award; and what reply he has sent.

Yes, Sir. The reasons for the decision to withhold approval have been explained to the Branch.

Is it not outrageous that the Minister should compel these decent men and women who take a great pride in their work in the National Health Service to take this action, which is repugnant to them? Further, is he not aware that if they were not concerned with the patients, whom they put first, they could bring the National Health Service to a standstill, but they are too decent to do so? Is it not outrageous that he should exploit them in this fashion? How much longer does he intend to continue worsening relationships within the Service?

The Minister will have to do something about it.

Resign.

Order.

Both the phraseology of that Question and the tone in which it was put suggest that the hon. Lady was more concerned with matters of debate than with seeking information. We have already had several opportunities to debate this matter in the House, of which the hon. Lady could have taken advantage.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the Report of the Willink Committee on Medical Manpower.

The Report is under consideration by the Government.

Will the right hon. Gentleman at least bear in mind that it is extremely important to have the recommendations of the Royal Commission on doctors' pay before any action is taken, in view of the great need to ensure that there is a fully adequate and developing service for patients and that the Royal Commission might very well make recommendations on this matter?

The action at present being taken on the Report is to bring it to the attention of the University Grants Committee and of the universities. That, I think the hon. Member will agree, should in any event be done. I will bear in mind what he says in the general context of the timetable of the Royal Commission.