asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps he will take in the coming year to enlarge the road improvement programme in Newcastle-under-Lyme.

We have already authorised substantial road improvements in Newcastle-under-Lyme, and I regret we have no funds available to increase them during the coming year.

While thanking the Parliamentary Secretary for the very small mercies already granted, may I ask whether he is aware that the scheme of trunk road improvement is really urgent? Does he know that the Council of Newcastle-under-Lyme has just reiterated its extreme anxiety about the intolerable traffic conditions in the centre of the town? Cannot he now, if not for this year at any rate for next year, give the date for the trunk road improvement scheme, which is holding things up?

I am afraid—and the hon. Gentleman already knows this—that I cannot yet give him the date. I would remind him that Newcastle-under-Lyme will next year have £330,000 of road works done there, and that this is a fairly good first instalment.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether the type of new permanent television traffic controls are to be installed in cities other than Durham; and what is the cost of these control points, compared with the normal traffic light control.

Conditions in Durham are exceptional, and I know of no plans to use similar equipment elsewhere. The television installation cost about £3,700. Normal traffic light signals would not function here at all.

Was the hon. Member wrong when he said at the time of the installation of this television traffic control that it would be very useful in other places? Has he changed his mind about that? Does not he think that this arrangement might be used in many places with considerable advantage?

Nothing in my reply closes the door to it being used elsewhere. It may be useful elsewhere, but only in somewhat exceptional circumstances. We shall certainly watch the Durham experiment to see whether it can be applied elsewhere.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when he proposes to give authority to carry out the improvement where road B.6093 joins the trunk road A.630 in the West Riding.

I cannot say at present when we will be able to include a scheme for the improvement of this junction in the road programme.

Is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary aware that I am absolutely confounded by that shocking reply? This matter has been under discussion since 1955. Do we have to wait until there have been more deaths on the road before the Department will make up its mind? Is it not the Ministry which is causing the delay?

I am afraid that all of these schemes have to wait their turn in the very long queue which requires attention. Incidentally, this particular point will have considerable relief when the Doncaster by-pass is built and, as the hon. Member knows, that is not so very far off.

Is it not intolerable to talk about the Doncaster by-pass being responsible for another improvement which is entirely separate and apart? Is not this another instance that people in Whitehall know absolutely nothing about local circumstances?

I must make it plain that the length of the queue of roads requiring attention is largely due to the neglect of the hon. Member and his right hon. Friends when they formed the Government.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will give a firm date for the commencement of work on the trunk roads leading to and from the new Clifton Bridge, Nottingham, in view of the fact that the new bridge will be completed within the next month or so.

We have published a draft Order under the Trunk Roads Act, 1946, to establish the line of a new trunk road between Clifton Boulevard (A.614) and Lings Bar (A.606). When this Order can be made we shall invite the City Council and the County Council to proceed with detailed preparation of the scheme for a trunk road link on the line laid down in the Order. I cannot at this stage say when we will be able to start the constructional work.

The hon. Member will recognise the urgency of connecting this bridge with the trunk roads. Will he take as an illustration of that urgency the fact that Nottingham City Corporation has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on making the connections possible by building a new approach and packing up the roads leading from the bridge towards the trunk roads?

I realise that the city has made great progress. As the hon. Member knows, we are making inquiries now for the preparatory work to proceed. As soon as that is in hand, we can give this a high priority in our future programmes.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what sum of money was allocated to local road safety committees during the current financial year; and how this compares with allocations of the two previous financial years.

In the present financial year £189,462 has so far been allocated to local authorities in England and Wales for road safety. The amount in 1956–57 was 177,543 and in 1955–56 was 167,689.

In view of the appalling loss of life and the serious injuries disclosed by the figures given by the Minister recently, does not the hon. Member agree that it is imperative that still more ample funds should be made available to try to inject into the public conscience a renewed sense of alarm and shame at the conditions now obtaining?

The expenditure of public funds is not the only way of putting this over. We are now spending quite substantial sums and, of course, they are the background of an immense volume of voluntary work done by local road safety committees, to whom I pay tribute. The money is sufficient to keep the wheels turning, but any voluntary help which we can get we will gladly welcome.

In view of past criticisms that some of this money is wasted by the rather bad display and use by local authorities of road safety campaign posters, can the hon. Member say whether any action has been taken by his Ministry, or by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, to see that those posters are better, and better displayed?

The Royal Society is always available to advise local authorities in their campaign and, as a rule, local authorities are very glad to have that advice. I am not aware of any specific cases where local authorities have fallen down on their usual high standards, but if the right hon. Gentleman will let me know, I will be very glad to look into the matter.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what analysis has been made of the peak hours for road accidents; and whether he will make a statement.

The statistics issued monthly and annually by my Department show that the weekday peak hours for road accidents are 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. There are other peaks at the weekend, and certain hours are particularly dangerous for children.

As these peak hours have been known to people for a very long time, does the Minister still feel justified in the Answer that he has given to my hon. Friend about the amount of money that is being spent on road safety warnings? These accidents are taking place at a time when people are going to and from their work on their bicycles. Can he give some advice to local authorities about street lighting in connection with this matter?

I how that the hon. Member is concerned with street lighting hut, as he knows, I have no control over that problem. Street lighting is a vital aspect of improving road safety in the 5–7 p.m. period, and I hope that those concerned will take note of that fact.

Es it not correct that in the case of motor vehicles there is an alarming jump in the number of casualties after 10 p.m.?

That is so.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the number of persons killed and injured, respectively, by road accidents in Wales since 1945.

From 1945 to 1957 inclusive, 3,353 persons were killed and 120,305 injured in road accidents in Wales and Monmouthshire.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he has yet come to a decision with regard to the provision of parking meters in the West End of London.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many schemes for parking meters in Central London have been proposed to him by the authorities concerned; and how many he has approved.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many proposals for installing parking meters have been received by him from local authorities up to date.

We have received applications for Orders authorising the use of parking meters from the Westminster City Council and the St. Marylebone Borough Council. In both cases public inquiries have been held. The Marylebone report has not yet been received. In the case of the Westminster Order, we have now received the reports of the Inspector who held the inquiry and of the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee which we are bound to consult. They both advise us, subject to modifications on some points of detail, to proceed with the scheme. We have considered this advice and decided to accept it. We shall proceed, therefore, to make the necessary Order as soon as we have given detailed consideration to the modifications proposed.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this decision to expedite the matter and not to await the Marylebone inquiry will be much welcomed in London? Can he give the House any idea when the meters will be installed and operating in the Westminster area?

I am advised that it will take about three months from the time when the Order is made and Westminster Council can proceed.

May we take it that the House will have an opportunity of debating the Order when it is laid before the House? I think that it has to be in the form of an affirmative Resolution. Now that the decision has been reached, will the Minister enter into consultations with his right hon. Friend in regard to the enforcement of parking restrictions in the area adjacent to that in which parking meters are to be installed? Does not the success of the whole scheme depend upon the very strict enforcement of regulations to ensure a free flow of traffic?

The scheme certainly depends upon strict enforcement both in the restricted area and adjacent to it, and I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and, through him, the police, are well aware—in fact I have their own assurance about it—that the whole scheme depends upon that. As to the first part of the supplementary question, this Order requires a Resolution of the House, and there will therefore be an opportunity to debate it.

As we have got off to a very slow start here, may I express the hope that the Minister will not allow any delays to take place either in his Department or elsewhere? This is an experiment which is really necessary in order to decide whether this is the proper way of dealing with an almost insoluble problem, and the sooner we tackle it the better we shall be able to see whether it is the answer.

My right hon. Friend and I are well aware of that. We are most anxious to get this scheme going, so that we can have just the experience to which my hon. Friend refers.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the Westminster scheme will cover a wide area of the West End?

No, it is a fairly limited area. It is the north-west corner of Mayfair. It includes Park Lane and Oxford Street, and goes roughly as far south as the southern boundary of Grosvenor Square.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what further information he has in respect of the Eastern Avenue extension through the Borough of Leyton, particularly as affecting tenants and householders whose houses will be demolished.

I am unable at present to add to my reply of 4th December.

Does the Minister appreciate that this prolonged delay extending over many years, despite all that the Leyton Borough Council has been able to do, is causing great hardship and anxiety to householders in my constituency, many of whom cannot sell their houses because it is known publicly that these houses are likely to be demolished? Can the Minister do something to expedite this matter?

The general problem exists in other areas besides the constituency of the hon. Member and the Government are making a detailed study to see whether there is any way of relieving what is known as "planning blight". Regarding the problem in the hon. Member's constituency, there is considerable difficulty in deciding how this road extension shall go in such a congested area, but we are proceeding as fast as we can, and I can assure the hon. Member that we shall not delay matters.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if the reconstruction of roadways near Whipps Cross, Leyton, will be affected by Government economy measures or if the time taken for the reconstruction will now be longer than previously announced and whether heavy traffic running on the roadway when completed will be restricted to less than the 40 miles per hour then permissible to other traffic.

No, Sir. Work has begun and is expected to be completed by September. It has not yet been decided whether the general speed limit on this road is to be raised to 40 m.p.h., but in any case the speed limits which apply to particular classes of vehicles would not be affected.

Is the Minister aware that a notice at this spot indicates that the traffic limit will be 40 miles an hour? Will he look into the matter very carefully, in view of the fact that already this area has a great deal of heavy traffic running across it and that it will have more in the future, making it more liable to be very dangerous to pedestrians? Has any consideration been paid to the means of crossing over the roadway when it is finished?

The proposal to raise the speed limit to 40 miles an hour is about to be advertised and it will then go to the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee to be considered be-for my right hon. Friend finally reaches a decision. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that all aspects of the problem will be fully taken into account before that decision is arrived at.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, in view of the recommendations, accepted by the Government, of the Franks Committee, he will reconsider his refusal to publish the Report of the independent inspector whom he appointed to inquire into the proposal for an underpass at the Ace of Spades junction on the Kingston By-pass.

No, Sir.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this recommendation of the Franks Committee that all inspectors' reports should be published was one of those which were specifically accepted by the Lord Privy Seal in this House on 31st October? As the Kingston By-pass Report to which I have referred happened to be against the Minister's decision, would it not be fairer to the objectors if they, as well as the Minister, were allowed to read it?

No, Sir. I do not think there are grounds for changing the decision. The decision letter which was sent out by my right hon. Friend ran to about five and a half pages and dealt with every significant aspect of this inquiry, including the conclusions of the inspector. Therefore, everyone was fully informed of the purport of the report. As this particular report and inquiry were similar to dozens of others taking place up and down the country it would be premature, before the general practice of publishing such reports comes in, to publish this one.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, in view of the fact that the conclusion of the independent inspector after a public inquiry was against the implementation of his Department's proposals to construct an underpass at the Ace of Spades junction on the Kingston By-pass, he will now allow the objectors to the proposals an opportunity to make further representations to him and to question the technical witnesses before the proposals for an underpass are carried into effect.

No, Sir. Before a decision was reached the matters at issue were the subject of prolonged consideration and the views put forward on behalf of the objectors at the inquiry were fully taken into account.

Is it not the fact that the Government accepted the principle of the Franks Committee recommendations and that the Lord Privy Seal promised that those principles would be carried into effect in practice by Government Departments? Why are those safeguards denied to my constituents in this case? Surely what is suggested in the Question would be only common justice and fair dealing?

My right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal announced that the Government accept this in principle, but it has very wide ramifications, not only for my Department, but for the Ministry of Housing and Local Government, the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance and so on, which have literally thousands of inquiries a year. We have to make a co-ordinated arrangement by which all these reports in future will be published and we are just not ready to do that yet.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) to what extent the public interest will be served through the construction of an underpass at the Ace of Spades junction on the Kingston By-pass, as compared to an enlarged and improved roundabout, in view of the heavy capital cost which will be incurred if the underpass proposals are implemented;

With permission, I will answer Questions Nos. 41 and 42 together.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. A very different principle applies to these two Questions. I should be grateful if they could be answered separately.

One Answer has been prepared. I think the hon. Member should hear whether it covers both Questions, and then he can ask a supplementary question.

We have reviewed this scheme very fully and are satisfied that only an underpass will adequately serve the needs of the traffic at this junction. The cost, which includes the approaches, slip roads and also the extension of the dual carriageways westwards to Woodstock Lane is about £500,000.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, at the public inquiry, expert evidence was given that the flow of traffic which could be carried by the enlarged roundabout was of the order of 5,500 vehicles an hour, which is a great deal more than the 75 per cent. which his own Department lays down, based on 1954 traffic? Quite clearly, on the figures the hon. Gentleman has given—even if they are adjusted—his own scheme would be about four times the cost of that of the Kingston By-pass Association. Really the country cannot be expected to take the Government's economic policy as clearly and readily as it is expected to be taken if this extravagance is permitted.

No, Sir. We considered very carefully indeed whether a roundabout or underpass should be built. In our opinion the smallest roundabout which would even begin to meet the needs of traffic there would be of a size which would involve the demolition of no less than four shops and one public house and have an effect on surrounding property. There is no doubt that our present proposal would interfere far less with property round there as well as giving a much improved traffic flow.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that is absolutely contrary to the opinion of the Kingston By-pass Association and that he has no grounds at all for saying that?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation in how many cases during the past three years road accidents have been caused by straying dogs.

During the three years ended 30th November, 1957, dogs in the carriageway contributed to 8,047 road accidents involving personal injury.

Is not it quite obvious that many of these accidents could have been avoided and lives saved if the law were enforced requiring that every dog should have some means of identification on its collar, and if fines were imposed on dog owners who did not comply with the law on the subject?

A great many of these dogs do not have collars. The whole problem is one of enforcement. That is why we have left it to local authorities to decide whether they wish to have regulations about dogs.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will bring forward legislation to make it a condition of membership of the nationalised boards to which he makes appointments that other directorships and appointments be relinquished.

No, Sir. I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal to the hon. Member for Enfield, East (Mr. Ernest Davies) on 17th December last.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that this is a highly unsatisfactory reply? Does he not know that the Government have agreed to refer the position of part-time directors of the Bank of England to a committee, because they recognise that there is a matter of principle involved here? Would he not, therefore, do the same in regard to those directors of nationalised concerns dealing with transport who have private interests that might conflict with their public duties?

I am well aware of what is being done about the position of the part-time directors of the Bank of England, but that is not strictly this Question. If the hon. Gentleman will study my right hon. Friend's reply, as I am sure he will, he will find that this practice has been followed concerning outside directorships since 1953.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the six part-time members of the British Transport Commission hold thirty-two other directorships between them, and that many of the firms of which they are directors make equipment of which the B.T.C. is a substantial purchaser? What does he propose to do about it?

My right hon. Friend considers each of these cases on its merits.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he has yet received the views of interested organisations on the recommendations of the Committee on Road Safety for varying the minimum age for riding certain types of motor-cycle; and whether he will make a further statement.

As I told my hon. and gallant Friend in my letter of 22nd January, we must satisfy ourselves that it is in the interests of road safety before we can consider lowering the minimum age for riding light motor-cycles. I am arranging to put in hand in the spring a survey designed to give us information bearing on this question.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, and while agreeing that this is a matter in which we have to proceed carefully, may I ask him, nevertheless, to remember that we are considering a recommendation by the Committee on Road Safety? Would he also consider inquiring of the German authorities whether they have any figures showing the accident rate to 15-year-olds on mopeds as compared with 16-year-olds because, would he not agree, that comparison would be relevant to our problem?

I am not likely to forget what my hon. and gallant Friend suggests in the first part of his supplementary question, because I am Chairman of that Committee. On his second point I feel that we should collect the best information we can from our own young motorcyclists, because that will be the only reliable guide we can have as to what relationship there is between age and experience of riding and accidents.

The Minister will recognise that the moped is now the most popular form of conveyance to work. Will he remember that the school-leaving age is fifteen, that lads of this age are deprived of using the method of travelling to work enjoyed by boys of sixteen, and that it would unify the position if the Minister would allow boys of fifteen to go to work on these vehicles?

I am well aware of the potential advantages, but we must assure ourselves first that it will be consistent with road safety.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will cause to be issued with new or renewed driving licences a brief pamphlet setting out the maximum penalties for motoring offences.

No, Sir; whilst I sympathise with the motives which have inspired my hon. Friend's Question, I doubt the deterrent effect of a pamphlet such as he proposes.

Does not my hon. Friend recollect the successful deterrent effect of the publication of maximum penalties for such minor offences as pulling a communication cord and spitting? Will he not apply the same principles to these far more serious offences in motoring?

No, Sir. I do not think that it would have the effect for which my hon. Friend hopes.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether, in order to decrease the seriousness of road accidents, he will make the wearing of crash helmets compulsory for motor-cyclists.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will consider introducing legislation to make the wearing of safety helmets by motor cyclists compulsory.

No, Sir. In this matter I think education and propaganda are better than compulsion.

Would not it be far better to use the police to enforce the wearing of these helmets rather than to employ them on duty on the 30 m.p.h. roads?

I think not. I think that motor-cycle riders are becoming increasingly aware of the value of these helmets. There is a satisfactory increase in the number worn and for all of us to give all the publicity we can to their value will best reach the right result.

How can the hon. Member refer to a satisfactory increase when he told the House, in reply to a Question of mine on 22nd January, that he had no figures of the number of deaths and injuries among motor-cyclists and no information about whether those killed or hurt were wearing safety helmets? Has he not been far too complacent about these terrible tragedies?

I have not been complacent. The figures I have show that 40 per cent. of motor-cycle riders now wear helmets as compared with 1952 when scarcely any helmets were worn. That is very useful progress.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will exempt holders of Northern Ireland driving licences of long standing, who transfer their residence to Great Britain, from the obligation to undergo driving tests before being issued with driving licences in this country.

My hon. Friend's proposal would require legislation. Whilst I do not think we could go as far as he proposes, we consider that there is a case for reciprocal recognition of driving tests, and will bear the possibility of legislation in mind.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what consideration he has given to the letter sent to him by the Committee of the Glasgow Schools Excursion Services concerning the travelling difficulties of 500 pupils to the Continent at Easter; and what was the nature of his reply.

We have received a letter from an individual member of the committee. This was referred to the British Transport Commission as the complaint was a matter for it, and I understand it has proved possible to clear up the difficulty.

May I thank the Minister for that reply and give him the assurance that it will create widespread satisfaction?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware of the difficulties caused by cold weather to drivers of long-distance lorries, with adverse effects upon the standards of driving; and if he will introduce regulations which will lead at a reasonably early date to the provision of heaters on lorries being made compulsory.

I think this would be better dealt with by negotiation between employer and employed, rather than by statutory regulations.

Does not my hon. Friend think that this amenity would be very greatly appreciated by lorry drivers and that many of them are not likely to get it unless the provision of it is made compulsory?

I would not agree with my hon. Friend. The matter is quite capable of negotiation, but it would not be easy to enforce as a regulation. It would be better dealt with in that way.

While we accept the point made by the Minister that the matter is far better dealt with by negotiation between the workers' and employers' organisations, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman appreciates that vast numbers of these lorry drivers are unorganised now that they are back with private enterprise and that therefore the evasion of regulations and of the requirements of regulations is greater than it was when they were operating a public service?

I would not accept the implication in the end of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. I would put it the other way round. I would be very hesitant to say that a vehicle should be taken off the road if its body heater was not in action. I do not think the matter is suitable for regulations.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in most lorries the engine is either forward or under the floor, and that the complaint has been that the cabs are too hot, not that they are too cold?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will consider allowing motorists to take out an annual licence at any time during the year as is the practice with the British Broadcasting Corporation's listener's licence.

This suggestion is already being examined along with other possible changes in the licensing procedure. It is too early to say whether it will prove practicable.

While appreciating that reply, may I ask whether the Parliamentary Secretary is himself a motorist? If he is, has he ever suffered with his fellow taxpayers, who stand in queues at post offices during the first week of every New Year? Will he use his best efforts to get a change made at the earliest possible moment?

I appreciate that great advantages would flow from this change. We all know of the queues, particularly in January. Other authorities have to be consulted, and we have not completed those consultations yet.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to what extent the recommendations contained in paragraphs 347 and 350 of the Report of the Committee on Administrative Tribunals are accepted by his Department.

Substantially, this recommendation can be accepted by my right hon. Friend. Advice given by the officials of my Department, technical or otherwise, could not be included, but, other than that, factual evidence obtained after an inquiry will in future be submitted to the parties before a decision is reached.

If the Government have accepted this principle as my hon. Friend says, why have they not done so in the case of the Kingston By-pass inquiry, to which reference has been made? Was not the evil aimed at in a particular paragraph the growing practice of Ministers considering factual representations behind closed doors after an inquiry had been closed without any opportunity being given for cross-examination or comment by interested parties? Since in the Kingston By-pass case the Minister over-ruled the inspector, is it not clear that he must have heard further evidence or representations, and that interested parties have not had an opportunity of commenting? Why in these circumstances is my hon. Friend flouting the undertaking given by the Leader of the House?

I am not doing so. The imagination of my hon. and learned Friend has run away with him. We had no additional factual evidence before us other than that which was produced at the inquiry; but, in considering whether the public interest lay in having one form of design at the junction rather than another, we decided that the inspector's conclusion was wrong and that therefore we should have an underpass.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware of the lack of progress in civil aviation in Wales; and what steps he is taking to enable the Principality to have regular air services.

My right hon. Friend does not accept that there has been a lack of progress in civil aviation in Wales. He is anxious to encourage it further, but the airlines themselves must decide which services are economically justified. My right hon. Friend has already approved regular services by Cambrian Airways linking South Wales with many parts of England, the Channel Islands, Dublin and the Continent. The development of these services depends on the support given them by the travelling public.

Is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is continued neglect of the Principality by B.E.A.? Will he and his right hon. Friend bring appropriate pressure to bear on this public Corporation so that some little progress can be made in Wales, many parts of which have no regular air service?

My right hon. Friend has this point very much in mind and I am glad to tell the hon. Member that I understand that negotiations between B.E.A. and Cambrian Airways are in progress and are likely to result in B.E.A. taking a greater interest in Cambrian's activities.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether a decision has yet been reached as to the future of Belfast Airport at Nutts Corner, County Antrim; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has decided that Nutts Corner should continue to be the main civil airport in Northern Ireland. A number of possible sites have been surveyed, but a suitable alternative to Nutts Corner could be provided only at an unjustifiable cost. The Government of Northern Ireland have been kept fully informed throughout.

I thank my hon. Friend for his reply, which will he welcomed by many people in South Antrim. Can he say how much money will be expended on the improvements to Nutts Corner Airport? Will he do everything in his power to expedite this work because of the present employment situation in Northern Ireland?

I think that a new terminal area, that is to say, a new terminal building and an apron, will be required. At a rough estimate, that will cost about £500,000. I cannot say exactly how we shall proceed in this matter, but it is now under discussion.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what plans he has for providing an alternative airport in Northern Ireland to Nutts Corner when aircraft have to be diverted on account of bad weather.

An alternate aerodrome to Nutts Corner already exists at Alder-grove. On only 1 per cent. of occasions are aircraft prevented from landing at one or other of these aerodromes through bad weather. The possibility of providing a second alternate in Northern Ireland is now being considered.

Has my hon. Friend considered the possibility of Eglinton and Ballykelly, near Londonderry, both of which are in my constituency?

We have Ballykelly under consideration at the moment, but 1 should warn my hon. Friend that there are difficulties there about the installation of navigational aids and other matters.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether a decision has yet been reached regarding the future requirements of British European Airways Corporation for medium-range jet airliners; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will now report what decision has been reached concerning future requirements of British European Airways for medium-range jet aircraft; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when he expects to make a statement on the negotiations he has been conducting with a number of aircraft manufacturing companies on the projected jet airliner for the British Overseas Airways Corporation.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will now make a further statement on the negotiations between British European Airways and the aircraft manufacturers regarding the medium jet airliners.

The proposed order for medium-range jet aircraft by British European Airways is still being considered. My right hon. Friend will make a statement as soon as possible.

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary impress upon the Government the fact that B.E.A. has already chosen an aircraft for its efficiency and safety? Will he also impress upon them that B.E.A. should have freedom of choice? Further, is he aware that this delay is causing uncertainty in the aircraft industry, which, unfortunately, is already facing the problem of redundancy?

My right hon. Friend is very well aware of the importance of this matter both to B.E.A. and the aircraft industry as a whole, and I can assure the House that as soon as he returns to duty it will have his immediate attention.

Does the Minister realise, apart from all other interests, that workers in many aircraft factories are very concerned about their future? Apart from other considerations, does not this fact make it imperative to have a very quick announcement?

I shall certainly call my right hon. Friend's attention to that matter. I do not think that I have anything further to add at this moment.

In view of the six months' delay which has already taken place, which the Corporation can ill afford, in competition with its overseas competitors, and also in view of the serious charge made by the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir A. V. Harvey), that in the course of these negotiations there has been double-dealing by some of the aircraft manufacturing companies, will the hon. Member lay a White Paper setting out the course of these negotiations, after the decision has been made?

I will draw the attention of my right hon. Friend to that suggestion.

Will the Minister represent urgently to those who are now considering this decision the fact that B.E.A., after long examination of the position, has decided that the DH.121 is the best instrument for its continued success? Will those who decide the issue take that fact into consideration when making their decision, and grant the Corporation a free choice in this matter?

I have said that the matter is still under consideration, and that my right hon. Friend is well aware of the points which have just been put forward. I would ask the House to be patient in this matter.

Does not the Minister agree that this very frustrating delay and time- and energy-consuming argument, into which the Corporation has been led, places an intolerable burden upon those who have the responsibility of operating the airline? Can we be assured that after all this delay and argument there will emerge from the aircraft manufacturing industry a more efficient construction unit?

I do not think that I can add anything to what has been said, and I am sure that note will be taken of the points that hon. Members have made.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will consult with the British European Airways Corporation and the local authorities concerned, with a view to investigating the possibility of a regular air service between Leuchars aerodrome and London.

I understand that B.E.A. have considered this possibility and have decided that such a service would he quite uneconomic.

Will the Minister reconsider this matter? Is he aware that this proposal is being made seriously for the first time and that it is very important for Dundee in its efforts to attract the new industries which are required?

I sympathise with the wish of Perth and Dundee to have local air services. My right hon. Friend will willingly consider any proposal put to him for such services, but he has no power to direct B.E.A. or any other airline to operate them.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he is aware that the percentage increases in passengers carried by the British Overseas Airways Corporation, British European Airways and the independent companies between 1953 and 1957 are 26, 47 and 190, respectively, and that the increase in the business of the last named operators is due to the preferential treatment given to them by the Government; and what steps he proposes to take to prevent further damage to the business of the public corporations.

The correct percentage figures are 60, 69 and 253, respectively. My right hon. Friend does not accept the inference which the hon. Member draws in the last part of his Question.

Is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary aware that many other people accept the inference which is quite a direct one arising from the Question, and that the figures he gives are much more serious than those which I offer? Does not he realise that to many of us these stem from the directive issued by one of his predecessors in 1952 altering the functions and status of the Air Transport Advisory Council in favour of the independent operators? Is he aware that in view of this remarkable increase it is quite wrong that the shipping interests, which are the financial backers of the independent operators, should be represented on the boards of the two public Corporations and also on the licensing body, the Air Transport Advisory Council? Does he realise that B.E.A.—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."] This is the speech I did not get an opportunity to deliver in the recent debate—

Order. The hon. Member cannot compensate for his bad fortune then at Question time today.

Just one concluding point, Mr. Speaker.

My answer to the hon. Gentleman's speech is that I am glad to hear his views on the flatter. I am sorry that he was not able to put them forward on a previous occasion. These figures date from 1953. Until then the traffic carried by the independent airlines on scheduled services was very small. We are talking about figures which relate to established services by the Corporation as a whole. Judging this matter by the number of passengers is very misleading, because many of the passengers carried by the independent companies on scheduled services are carried for short distances. When inclusive tours are taken into account, it is much more accurate to judge the percentages for passenger mileage, and that would give in 1957 the independents' total share of the traffic as 10·2 per cent.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that even then these figures are still totally misleading in that the general traffic being carried by the independent companies is newly created traffic and it is not a question of deflecting it from one line or another; and also it is a lower revenue type of traffic as well?

My hon. Friend is perfectly right. My right hon. Friend has taken care that this increase should not be at the expense of the Corporation whose established services have received adequate protection from the A.T.A.C.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that the view he has just expressed is diametrically opposed to the view expressed officially by the British European Airways Corporation in its last Annual Report, where it is definitely stated that some of these new tourist services run by independent operators are seriously damaging the services provided by B.E.A.? In view of that fact, will he at least reconsider the directive given by the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to the A.T.A.C. which is causing so much damage to British aviation as a whole?

The right hon. Gentleman raised this point during a recent debate and I answered him then, pointing out that in the B.E.A. Report it is stated that the Corporation had no complaint about the impartiality of the A.T.A.C. As I pointed out, it has been acting under its proper directions. That being the case, and since in the calendar year 1957 B.E.A. has made a profit of over £1 million, I do not think that we can seriously say that it has suffered any damage.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is aware that a Pan-American passenger aircraft from New York, which arrived over London Airport at 9 a.m. on 30th January, was kept circling overhead for six hours, finally landing at Hurn about 3 p.m., that the passengers were then kept in the aeroplane for a further three hours, that only three Customs officers were on duty to deal with some thirty aeroplanes, and that only after special representations to the station master was a train made available to take these passengers and others up to London at 10.30 p.m.; and whether, in view of the importance of dealing with long-distance aircraft arrivals more expeditiously and courteously in fog conditions, he will investigate this incident with a view to urgent remedial action.

I am informed that the aircraft "Clipper 100" arrived in the London area just before 11 a.m. and circled for about four hours because the pilot hoped for an improvement in the weather over London Airport. Before it arrived at Hum, six additional Customs officers were on duty there. Arrangements for dealing with passengers on landing after a diversion and for their subsequent transport are the responsibility of the operators, in this case Pan-American Airways. My right hon. Friend is satisfied that the officials of my Department at Hum did all they could for the comfort of the passengers, but he will keep the matter under review.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that, after these passengers had been circulating in the air for many hours, when they arrived at Hum they could not get out of the aeroplane for lack of ladders; and that they were then delayed for several hours trying to get through the Customs? As we know, fog is a very frequent occurrence in this country. Would it not he better to have an emergency operation for dealing with people at these diversionary airports? Finally, is my hon. Friend aware that among the distinguished passengers was the producer of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof "?

My information is not at all in accordance with what my hon. Friend has said. It is that the Pan-American London airport traffic manager said that the reason the passengers were left on board the aircraft was for their own comfort, that they were provided with refreshments and that there was no shortage of aircraft steps.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many aircraft were diverted to Prestwick on 30th and 31st January owing to the closing down of London Airport; how many passengers were involved in the diversions; and what extra staff were engaged.

London Airport was not closed. Twelve aircraft, carrying 372 passengers, were diverted to Prestwick. No additional staff were employed by my right hon. Friend's Department.

Does the Minister recognise once again the debt we owe to Prestwick? While we in Scotland welcome the decision now to go ahead with the 500-yard extension of the runway in order to handle Britannias, can the hon. Gentleman tell us when the 2,000-yard extension to deal with the turbo-jet airliners of the 1960s will be commenced so that Prestwick can still have at least a secondary position to London Airport?

I have answered the hon. Member's Question. If he wishes to ask further details about the runway at Prestwick and will put down another Question, I shall be glad to answer it.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation the average annual rate of the emoluments payable to the chairmen and members of the railway area boards in 1956 and at the present time; and when the last change in such rates took place.

I am informed by the British Transport Commission that when its Accounts for 1957 are published they will show that the total amount paid in fees to members of its area boards was substantially the same as in 1956. The scale of fees has not changed since the boards were set up.

I thank the Joint Parliamentary Secretary for that reply which is more forthcoming than the replies we have had on the last two Wednesdays. Can the hon. Gentleman state why his right hon. Friend has been so secretive over this matter? Questions have been pressed upon him regarding the fees paid and only now is he willing to give them and to allay the suspicions which have been held in many quarters that these fees have been increased.

I do not know how those suspicions arose. My right hon. Friend did say when he was last at the Dispatch Box that if the hon. Member would put this Question on the Order Paper, he would give him the answer. In fact at that time we did not have the information which I have now given.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if, following the inquest on the train disaster at Lewisham, he will now suggest to the British Transport Commission that automatic train control should be established on all sections of British Railways where it is not installed and so relieve train drivers of their present heavy responsibility.

The British Transport Commission has in hand the installation of automatic warning control on all the main routes of British Railways, and the Chairman has assured us that the Commission will do all it can to accelerate the programme. But automatic warning control, although a valuable help to safety, cannot entirely remove the element of human responsibility.

May I thank the hon. Member for that reply? Will he bear in mind, particularly since the Dagenham tragedy which has created even greater anxiety than prevailed before—and that was bad enough—that every expedition should be exercised to produce every mechanical device possible to minimise the grave responsibility upon human beings in control of and driving these trains, so that they may have an opportunity to make use of such devices in the exercise of this dangerous responsibility?

Yes, Sir and that is just what the Commission is doing.

Will the Minister express to the British Transport Commission the disappointment of this House at the rate of progress in this matter? I think it correct to say that in reply to a Question a week or so ago the Minister indicated that only about 1,000 miles of track had been laid. This is a very small percentage of the running track. In view of the long time the Commission has been engaged on this experiment, is not this rate of progress exceedingly slow?

I think I should say in fairness to the Commission that A.T.C. is only one important aid to improved safety. Colour light signalling and track circuiting are of equal importance. The Commission is making good progress and accelerating considerably over its original programme.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will appoint a committee to inquire into train operation during periods of fog and to report as a matter of urgency with recommendations to ensure the safety of the passengers and railwaymen.

I think we should await the reports of the inspecting officers of railways on the accidents at Lewisham and Dagenham.

While appreciating that reply, may I ask whether the Parliamentary Secretary realises that the appointment of such a committee would be no reflection at all upon the operating staff? In view of the large number of accidents which have occurred during foggy weather, in particular the last two tragic ones in close succession, would not such an appointment assist in reassuring the public that everything possible is being done to preserve their safety during dense fog?

I accept, of course, the statement that in foggy weather there is always extra strain and responsibility on all forms of transport, rail included. The Chairman of the British Transport Commission has already written to general managers and chairmen of area boards asking for special vigilance in the light of those two unfortunate happenings. In the circumstances, we had better wait to see just what the causes were before we consider whether or not it is desirable to have any further inquiry.

Will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary also bear in mind that on every foggy evening millions of people are conveyed from London alone? Does not he consider that the two recent accidents, though very serious in themselves, represent a very small number, in proportion to the millions of people conveyed and the many foggy nights we are accustomed to have in this country.

The hon. Member is quite right. Hon. Members have been asking me about road accidents. If the rail record is set against the road record it does not look too bad.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation why Her Majesty's Government did not support the Convention on Stowaways, drafted at the tenth session of the Diplomatic Conference on Maritime Law in Brussels.

Her Majesty's Government did not support the Convention on Stowaways drafted at the tenth session of the Diplomatic Conference on Maritime Law because they considered that the Convention would be less satisfactory in practice than the existing arrangements.

Is the Minister aware that that is an extremely uninformative Answer? Is any principle at stake here? In fact, was there not a considerable majority in favour of the Convention and were we in the minority position?

I cannot answer the last part of the supplementary question, but I will look it up and send the answer to the right hon. Member. There are technical immigration considerations involved which are properly a matter for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. We considered that the Convention would be likely to result in an increase rather than a reduction in the number of stowaways coming to this country.

asked the Minister of Defence how many United States armed forces and how many United States citizens, related to or employed in an auxiliary capacity to the armed forces, were stationed in Great Britain at the last most convenient date for computation.

About 36,000 members of the United States armed forces are stationed In this country, together with about 500 United States civilians employed in an auxiliary capacity. I have no precise information about the number of their relatives here.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that, while we greatly appreciate the help of our American allies in the years that are past and the very high standard of conduct of their troops here, a growing body of opinion is coming to the conclusion that their presence now adds to our difficulties rather than detracts from them and adds to the danger to this country, and a growing body of opinion finds it difficult to understand the attitude of the Germans to our troops there in relation to our attitude to American troops here?

All I can say is that the strength of the United States Air Force and its dispersal around the world, including its bases in this country, are undoubtedly the most decisive factor today for the preservation of peace. If this involves some inconvenience, I think we have got to put up with it.