asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what progress has been made in giving the consumers an indication of the age of a fresh egg and in speeding up egg collection from the farms for delivery to packing stations.

Responsibility for these matters now rests with the British Egg Marketing Board. I suggest that the hon. Member should pursue his inquiry with the Board.

Are the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friend sufficiently friendly with the Board to be able to find out some information, and since their Department was so much concerned in setting it up, can the Minister say whether any improvement has been made by way of informing the housewife of the age of an egg?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are on the most cordial terms with the Board, but these responsibilities are within its powers and I should have thought it more appropriate for the hon. Gentleman to approach it direct.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is satisfied with the administration of the egg subsidy; and what inquiries are at present being made.

As the hon. Member knows, the guarantees on eggs are now being implemented by the British Egg Marketing Board under a financial agreement with the Government. My right hon. Friend is satisfied with these general arrangements. Under the agreement, the Board is required to maintain an adequate internal audit and inspection. I know of no inquiries other than those arising out of these functions.

I am very pleased to hear it, but as this is a subsidy running up to nearly £50 million, will not the Joint Parliamentary Secretary recognise that his Department still has a very real responsibility for assuring the taxpayer that this is properly spent?

Yes, I gladly give the assurance. All this is subject to our own audits, and we keep the most careful check upon these matters.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the quantity of ice-cream manufactured and sold in the United Kingdom during 1957; what proportion of this was made of milk products; and what were the other ingredients and their proportions.

Ice-cream manufacturers are not required to make returns of output, but I am informed by the Wholesale Ice Cream Federation Limited and the Ice Cream Alliance that a reasonable estimate of output for 1957 would be 100 million gallons. All ice-cream must contain a minimum of 5 per cent. of fat, 7½ per cent. of milk solids other than fat, and 10 per cent. of sugar. But neither the actual amounts of these ingredients nor the amounts of milk products used in manufacture are known.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that most ice-cream sold in this country has really no relationship whatsoever to the cow? Would he not further agree that if his right hon. Friend could persuade the trade to increase the milk product content of ice-cream it would be one way of dealing with some of our surplus milk at the present time and would also reduce the balance of payments exchange on edible oils which have to be imported? Furthermore, would not my hon. Friend agree that under the Food and Drugs Act the Minister has powers to order that this product, if it continues to be constituted as it is at present, should be sold as iced edible oil and not as ice-cream?

I am interested in my hon. and gallant Friend's suggestion as to the name, but I would remind him that my right hon. Friend is at the moment considering the Report of the Food Standards Committee on the matter and has asked for representations from a large number of people. I will see that my hon. and gallant Friend's views are borne in mind.

Will the Minister say of what the other 90 per cent. of ice-cream consists?

From the figures I gave, I do not think it is quite 90 per cent. As a matter of fact, in many cases considerably above the minimum is put in, but, as I have said, my right hon. Friend is considering the matter in relation to the Report.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether, in view of the heavy losses caused by outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease, the majority of which are attributed to carcases imported from South America, and of the opinion of many veterinary surgeons that the infection is carried by the bones of such carcases, he will take steps to ensure that all carcases imported from South America are boned in the country of origin.

I am advised that boneless meat would have to be frozen and that freezing would be more favourable than chilling to the preservation of virus in the meat.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him if it is not true that, in fact, boneless meat is imported into this country and that a great deal of infection is carried by bones in non-boneless meat? Is he aware that a large part of my constituency has been subject to restrictions because of foot-and-mouth disease for about three months, which has caused great losses to farmers, auctioneers, hauliers and others? Will not he look into this matter again?

I realise the importance of this matter and the concern which is felt in the farming community, but, as far as infection is concerned, I think there is a likelihood that a good deal of this comes from birds from the Continent. On the particular point of freezing, I tried to deal with that in my Answer, but if we were to freeze immediately the bones were taken out, as I am advised we would have to, there would be more risk of the virus rather than less.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps are taken by his Department to see that a field drainage scheme for which a Government grant is given is maintained in a satisfactory state.

My Ministry's local officers take every opportunity of drawing farmers' attention to the vital need of maintaining drainage systems.

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary whether there is any system of inspection, because large sums are spent each year on field drainage projects and it would seem to be a waste of money if they are not inspected afterwards?

Considerable numbers are so inspected, but there are real practical difficulties here. My right hon. Friend has in the past urged local executive committees and his local officials to keep a special watch on this, and, as far as we can, we will deal with the point which the hon. Member has in mind.

If a member or members of a county executive committee do follow up drainage schemes and see that they are properly maintained, in view of the Government grant, would the hon. Gentleman or his right hon. Friend describe those members of the executive committee as being detective, prosecutor and judge?

No, I do not know that I would describe them in quite those terms.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement regarding his meeting with representatives of the National Farmers' Union, the Fatstock Marketing Corporation and bacon curers to discuss the slump in bacon pig prices.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement on his meeting with representatives of the National Farmers' Union, the Fatstock Marketing Corporation and bacon curers about pig prices.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement on bacon pig prices.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he has yet completed his discussions with the industries concerned in the production and sale of bacon; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action he proposes to take following the representations made to him about bacon pig prices.

As my right hon. Friend is indisposed, the meeting with the representatives of the National Farmers Union, the Fatstock Marketing Corporation and the bacon curers has been postponed until Thursday this week, 13th February.

While hoping that my right hon. Friend will soon be well again and in a position to hold this meeting, which has been so unfortunately postponed, will my hon. Friend ask him if he will take the earliest possible opportunity of making a statement in order to relieve the genuine anxiety which exists among producers at this present unhappy situation? In particular, will he bear in mind the fact that they cannot understand why British shops should be filled with imported bacon to their exclusion?

I know my right hon. Friend is very sorry that this meeting had to be delayed, but he is looking forward to meeting these delegates on Thursday this week, and he will bear in mind the points which my hon. Friend has made. I do not think it is quite true to say that the shops are entirely full of foreign bacon, as opposed to the home product. The figures do not bear out that statement.

While joining with other hon. Members in saying that everyone regrets that the Minister is not well and hopes he will be fit again as soon as possible, may I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to impress upon his right hon. Friend the urgency of reaching a decision on this matter? Is he aware that it is very disappointing that, for the second time in a few years, we have got bacon pigs into this mess again? Will he also bear in mind the question which is raised by implication—that of recognising that we shall want a list of the retail prices?

Yes, Sir. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his remarks about my right hon. Friend. In regard to bacon pigs being in a mess, I do not think I would accept that as a description of the position. Perhaps there was too strong a demand for pork pigs in relation to bacon pigs, but I am sure the hon. Member would not wish pork pigs to be depressed accordingly.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary give an assurance that, after seeing the representatives of the producers, and before taking any action by way of quotas or anything of that kind, the Minister will also consult the representatives of the consumers' organisations?

Obviously, I cannot say what my right hon. Friend will say as a result of these consultations, but I do not think he has any intention of making any sweeping change at present which would be detrimental to the consumer.

Bearing in mind that the 1956 Price Review discriminated against the small man and was an imposed settlement, may I ask the Parliamentary Secretary how the Government are going to cope with the betrayal of the bacon pig producer? Will the hon. Gentleman, from his own knowledge, tell us whether we should provide more pigs this year or less? This is a very simple question, to which every pig producer wants to know the answer?

I am sorry, but the hon. Gentleman clearly did not read the White Paper on the February Price Review, as I would wish. In the last one, it was clearly stated that we thought that no more pigmeat was required, whereas, in fact, production has gone up very considerably in the intervening year. It is not true to say that the bacon producer is suffering unduly at this moment. The operation of the guarantees safeguards the producer to a very great extent.

To ask the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, if the case of Mr. Barratt of Knapp Cottage, King Farm, Corscombe, near Dorchester, has been brought to his notice; and whether he has agreed to allow him to see a copy of the report of the county agricultural executive committee so that he may reply to their submission.

May I make a correction in this Question? The word "King" should be "Vimy."

My right hon. Friend has carefully considered Mr. Barratt's request that his landlord should be directed to provide gates and new farm buildings, but he agrees with his predecessor's decision that this would not be justified. The reasons for this decision were set out in his predecessor's letters to the right hon. Gentleman of 5th April and 9th July, 1957, which I understand Mr. Barratt has seen. It is the practice to treat reports by the Department's officers and committee members as confidential. Mr. Barratt is already fully aware of the reasons for the decision.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer obviously reached this decision as the result of a report submitted to him by the county executive committee? Will he tell us how he thinks it is possible, if 16 gates are missing on a comparatively small farm, for the tenant farmer to fulfil his obligations under Part II of the Agriculture Act?

I would only say that this question of gates was looked into very closely. My right hon. Friend indicated that he thought that six gates would he adequate and that Mr. Barratt could replace these gates with the consent of the landlord and claim compensation when leaving at the end of his tenancy. In relation to all the other circumstances of this case, of which the right hon. Gentleman is very well aware, I do not think it would be right for my right hon. Friend to intervene further.

Surely, it is reasonable to expect the landlord to produce the gates that ought to be there? Is it not obviously the duty of the landlord to fulfil his obligations under Part II of the Act, just as much as the tenant should fulfil his? Does he not think that the county committee might meet the tenant farmer and the landlord in order to get a rational settlement?

I am very anxious to see a rational settlement, but in this case there are special circumstances. The landlord has gone a considerable way in assisting this tenant, and I think a little good will and more initiative on the part of the tenant to help himself would not be a bad thing.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the landlord is receiving sufficient rent to enable him to supply the gates?

It is his fault if he is not.

In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of the reply and the action of the Government in this case, I beg to give notice that I shall take an early opportunity to raise this matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the percentage of uninspected meat passing through slaughterhouses and becoming available for human consumption at the last convenient date in 1953.

Except for some pigs at bacon factories, all meat was inspected prior to decontrol.

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary consider that the position today is most unsatisfactory if in 1953 practically 100 per cent. of the meat was inspected before consumption whereas today 20 per cent. of it is not inspected?

I have never attempted to disguise the fact that I would like there to be 100 per cent. meat inspection as soon as possible, but I think it is relevant to remind the House that there is considerably more meat to be inspected today. It did not take long to inspect the 8d. meat ration that we had at one time.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will give the number of appeals that have been made to him by tenant farmers on the ground that the owner of the farm had failed to fulfil his obligations under Section 11 (3) of the Agriculture Act, 1947; and in how many of these cases the tenant farmer has won his appeal.

The law does not give tenant farmers a right of appeal to the Minister on these grounds. The hon. Member may have in mind the number of cases in which complaints have been made by tenants with a view to consideration being given to disciplinary action under the Agriculture Act. I regret that this information is not available.

In view of the Minister's answer to Question No. 7 a few moments ago, may I ask whether he is satisfied that this procedure is working well? Is he aware of the disquiet of many farmers in view of the state of affairs existing between themselves and their landlords? Would he consider making a statement at some time or issuing a circular to reassure the tenant farmers in this connection?

Very real safeguards are available to tenant farmers, whether on the question of repairs or of improvements. I should have thought that those safeguards were reasonably adequate, but we shall have an opportunity perhaps of debating this question when we consider the Agriculture Bill.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the net economy resulting from the proposed dismissal in 1958 from the Ordnance Survey Office of 80 cartographic surveyors and draughtsmen.

The discharge of the temporary surveyors and draughtsmen by the Ordnance Survey in the year 1958 will result in a net saving of salaries of £25,000 in the year 1958–9 and a similar saving for several subsequent years.

If that figure does not include the gratuity which is to be paid, is the hon. Gentleman aware that he will save nothing in the first year, because the gratuity is £30,000? Is he further aware that the figure he gave last week of £120,000 a year which he proposes to save shows that he is achieving his major economy quite apart from the dismissal of these people? Will he not therefore think again before dismissing these eighty loyal and faithful servants?

My right hon. Friend considered this matter most sympathetically and he met representatives. We shall have an opportunity of discussing this matter, I think, on the Adjournment. I do not think there is anything I can usefully add to what I have told the hon. Member, except that had these dismissals not taken place there would have been a substantial excess over and above this figure. This is a net reduction, but without these dismissals there would have been a considerable figure over and above.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is satisfied that the current level of imports of barley does not affect adversely the marketing of home-grown barley by British farmers; and if he will make a statement.

While world barley prices are much lower than a year ago, my right hon. Friend has no evidence that British farmers have not been able to dispose of their crops because of the imports of barley.

In view of the fact that imports of barley appear to have been increasing, over the last three years at any rate, is my hon. Friend certain that the marketing of barley by British farmers will not be adversely affected in the future if imports continue to rise?

Imports have risen because there has been a larger consumption of feedingstuffs in this country. I do not think there is any evidence that British farmers have been unable to sell their barley. If there were an increase in production at home, I should imagine that imports would fall.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that British farmers, in default of being able to sell their barley or to get a price of more than £17 a ton, have been compelled to buy weaners and feed it to them in order to dispose of it at all? At the present price of bacon pigs, it means less than two halfpennies for a penny. Has the hon. Gentleman considered the effect on the barley acreage this coming summer? This is a serious matter.

I do not think it is true that farmers have fed their barley to pigs because they could not sell it. They could sell it. They have chosen to feed it to pigs, and I do not see anything wrong in that. But what we want to see is an increase in the production of feeding-stuffs at home and a reduction in the total import bill. That will come about if we expand our home production of feeding-stuffs; there will then not be so much imported.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what discussions he has held regarding his proposals to amend the Agricultural Holdings Act, 1948.

My Department has consulted the National Farmers' Union, the Country Landowners' Association, the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, the Land Agents' Society, the Chartered Auctioneers' and Estate Agents' Institute, and the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers.

As the Department has been unable to get agreement, will the Joint Parliamentary Secretary see that these discussions are pursued?

We have been having considerable discussions, and on some of these matters I am hopeful that we shall have agreement.

Does the Joint Parliamentary Secretary or his right hon. Friend ever consult the National Union of Agricultural Workers before negotiating these agreements?

Yes, indeed, but this was in relation to the 1948 Act—a landlord and tenant Act—and we did not feel that it would be appropriate to do so, as the workers were not directly concerned.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what degree of deafness is necessary under the rules relating to disability pensions to justify a finding of 10 per cent. total disability.

Under the Industrial Injuries Acts, which I understand the hon. Member has in mind, total deafness is assessed by regulation at 100 per cent. Consequently, medical boards and medical appeal tribunals make assessments for partial deafness on the basis of the proportionate degree of loss of hearing.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that is not my experience or the experience of any of my colleagues on this side of the House? Is he further aware that cases are constantly arising of men who are seriously deaf, who in these days of increasing unemployment are debarred from work and are getting assessments of 10 per cent., 15 per cent., or 20 per cent.? Will the right hon. Gentleman look into it?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, these assessments are made by the independent statutory authorities under the Act. I have certainly no reason to believe that there is any truth in any general assertion of that sort.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance on what ground a medical appeal tribunal is authorised to assume pre-existing disability in a case in which all the evidence is to the effect that no pre-existing disability was ever present.

None. Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are constantly getting cases of a pension that is refused to a man who was medically passed A.1, on the ground that he made to a medical officer a statement which he denies and which has never been recorded on his papers, suggesting that he had some illness before service? This is really becoming a grave public scandal, and will the Minister look into it?

The only case which the hon. Gentleman has specifically drawn to my attention was a case where there undoubtedly was evidence, which the adjudicating bodies accepted, that there was a pre-existing disability. If the hon. Gentleman is going to make general charges of this sort, I must ask him to show me evidence.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have at least half a dozen such cases, and in the case to which he refers the man was passed A.1 after an examination? In those circumstances, what right has anybody to refuse him a pension on the ground that he made a statement that he had an illness ten years before?

In that case, the pension was not refused—it was granted. The assessment depended on the acceptance of evidence both of a specialist and of X-ray photographs, which showed in the opinion of the adjudicating body that there was a preexisting disability.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he is aware that a British officer who returns to this country after service overseas with the Royal Air Force is not entitled to family allowances in respect of any children born to his wife during the period of his service abroad; and if he will take steps to remedy this situation.

The hon. Member is under some misunderstanding. Service men returning from abroad with their children qualify for the allowances wherever their children were born. Where, however, the children do not come back to this country with their parents, it is not possible to treat them differently from other children who are not in this country.

Will the Minister go again into the case which was brought to his notice in which a child born to an R.A.F. officer was registered in Germany at the consulate? No allowance has been paid in respect of the child because it was not born in this country and was not in the country at the time. Surely that is a very serious position? Allowances are being made in respect of children born in this country, but a child born while a man is on service in another country is not regarded as eligible for the allowance. Surely there is something wrong with that?

No, Sir, in the particular case the hon. Member has drawn to my attention, if he will look again at the decision he will see that the grounds for disallowance were not place of birth, but the fact that the child was not in this country.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what has been the number of applications received by the National Assistance Board for financial assistance as a result of demands for increased rents resulting from the Rent Act, 1957; how many have been approved; and how many cases are receiving consideration.

I am informed by the National Assistance Board that information is not available in the form in which it is asked for, but that up to 25th January about 260,000 weekly assistance grants had been increased to provide for rent increases under the Rent Act.

Is this not a revelation, that more than a quarter of a million old-age pensioners on National Assistance have had to ask for increases because of the Rent Act? Could the right hon. Gentleman—I expect he could—give some idea of the amount of public money which has been transferred to landlords' pockets? Is he further aware that there is still a lot to come?

In the first place, the figure I have given is not related solely to old-age pensioners or retirement pensioners, but to the recipients of National Assistance in general. In the second place, the only difference between the hon. Member and myself is that while we both feel it is right that people of small means should be assisted in paying their rent, whereas the hon. Member thinks that it should be done by the landlord I think it should be done by the community.

How much?

If the hon. and learned Member will put down a Question, I will do my best to give him an Answer. It is, in fact, extremely difficult to do so, because the figures I have given are those of successful applications and, of course, I have not the figures of how long those amounts remain in payment.

Could the right hon. Gentleman answer that part of my Question which asks how many cases are receiving consideration?

If the hon. Member will study the first part of my Answer, he will see that I told the House that that figure was not available.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance when he proposes to implement the recommendation of the Franks Committee that there should be an automatic right of appeal from the local appeal tribunal to the commissioner under the National Insurance and National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Acts.

I have in course of preparation draft regulations for submission to the National Insurance Advisory Committee providing for automatic right of appeal from local tribunals in National Insurance matters. The giving of a similar right in Industrial Injury cases, however, requires legislation.

Will the Minister do everything he can to avoid delay in considering these matters, bearing in mind that cases coming under the Industrial Injuries Act at the moment possibly cause the least justifiable delay as the trade unions have no automatic right of appeal under that Act as they have under the National Insurance Act? Is it not possible, as an interim measure, to suggest to chairmen of local appeals tribunals that they might give automatic right of appeal as these changes are on the way?

On the industrial injuries side, I can say nothing about legislation, but I should have thought that giving the advice the hon. Member suggests would be somewhat contrary to the general spirit of the Franks Committee recommendations. Before making regulations on National Insurance appeals, it is necessary to submit them to the National Insurance Advisory Committee, which has to allow time for complaints to be made after advertisement.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will now take steps to allow men and women of retirement age to earn up to £5 a week in wages without any loss of pension.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (Sir I. Clark Hutchison) on 11th November.

Why should a pensioner be penalised for working if he is able and wishes to do so? Are not the Government themselves guilty of a restrictive practice? Would it not benefit the individual and the nation if the earnings rule were altered, particularly in view of rising prices and wages, so that this situation would not recur in future?

The limits were, of course, raised as recently as 30th July, 1956, and the position of the pensioner who desires to go back to full-time work has been facilitated by the fact that last year the House approved the proposal which makes de-retirement and return to work with resumption of earning of increments possible.

asked the Paymaster-General the nature of the direction he has given to the National Coal Board to increase the production of large coal to avoid the overstocking of small coal.

My noble Friend has given no such direction.

Is the Minister aware of the growing apprehension in the country caused by the stocking of small coal? Does he not realise the amount of money it is costing to stockpile that coal and the fear of unemployment arising in the coalfields? Will he bear in mind that, if this direction were given with sufficient force, progress could be made to the benefit of the country and the industry as a whole?

A number of questions are raised in that supplementary question. I do not think it would be desirable to give a general direction under the Act on this matter. I can reassure the hon. Member, however, that the question of small coal is under constant attention, both by the National Coal Board and by the Ministry of Power.

Will the hon. Gentleman give directions to the Central Electricity Authority to burn smaller coal instead of oil and so relieve his embarrassment about the stocking of small coal?

That raises a number of other questions. As they are not related closely to this Question, perhaps the hon. Member, if he thinks it worth while, will put a further Question on the matter.

asked the Paymaster-General whether, in view of the occurrence of 58 underground fires in coal mines during the last five years, he will now fix the appointed day for the compulsory use of non-inflammable conveyor belting.

My noble Friend cannot consider fixing the appointed day until he is satisfied that fire resistant belting suitable for use in all conditions is available. Despite the absence of compulsion, however, such belting is being installed as rapidly as possible wherever conditions permit. A number of the recent fires to which the hon. Member refers were small ones which occurred where fire-resistant belting was used.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that he has been properly advised in this matter? Is he aware that it is now more than three years since the Mines and Quarries Act received the Royal Assent? Is he aware of the undertakings given by his predecessor in this connection?

Oh, yes, and in fact I am advised—and I must assume that the figure is correct—that something like 80 per cent. of belting being used is fire-resistant, but there are certain technical difficulties in certain kinds of mine which make it impossible to issue a general directive.

Would those technical difficulties be overcome by exemption being granted by Her Majesty's Inspectorate?

I should like to look into the drafting of any order of that kind. I am advised at the moment that those are the difficulties which stand in the way of making a general directive.

asked the Paymaster-General what tonnage of coal is intended for export in the next coal year; and what steps he is taking, in consultation with the Foreign Office, to ascertain how many overseas markets are available for the disposal of small coal.

It is the aim of the Coal Board to increase the amount of coal exported, but it is too early yet to say how far this will be possible in the next coal year. The Coal Board and the coal exporting firms maintain close touch through commercial channels with the markets for British coal and information about coal requirements abroad is also obtained through various inter national organisations and inter-Governmental trade negotiations.

Must we assume from that answer that we have completely lost the foothold in the Continental market which was gained by the Labour Government? When does the Minister expect the Coal Board to show a profit if he cannot or will not sell more coal abroad?

I think it is a confusion of thought, if the hon. Member will forgive me for saying so, to assume that sales in a commercial market are due either to a Labour Government or to any other Government. This is a commercial matter which is very properly left to the National Coal Board. We give the Board such assistance as can be given, but I do not believe that people buy coal because it comes from a particular political party. They buy it if they think it is cheap and good.

Is it not a fact that American export prices in small coal are under-cutting our prices in spite of the transport charges?

I should like notice of that question. The situation changes so rapidly.

asked the Paymaster-General if he is now in a position to announce the date of the termination of coal rationing.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer I gave last week to a similar Question put by my hon Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lonsdale (Sir I. Fraser).

I remember the answer which he gave, but will the Minister give a more precise definition of what is "an early date"?

The earliest date by which it can be done without doing greater damage which would counteract the inestimable benefits of getting rid of this rationing.

asked the Paymaster-General what was the total coal production, including opencast, and the output per man-shift in 1957.

The figures are 223·6 million tons and 1·23 tons, respectively.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that this rather disappointing increase, which has not varied very much in the last three or four years, is a reflection of the failure of the National Coal Board to do its job effectively, despite the increasing amount of capital being spent in the industry?

I do not think that anybody, including the Coal Board, is satisfied with the progress in increasing production, but I do not think I can usefully say anything more in answer to a supplementary question.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will give an estimate of the cost of awarding pensions to those retired miners who are not in receipt of a National Coal Board pension.

I understand that the cost, on the basis of the union's proposals, has been estimated at about £2½ million.

Does not the Minister realise that there are no difficulties at all preventing the National Coal Board now paying pensions to these miners who retired after 1946 and before the pension scheme became operative, and will he see that the National Coal Board takes measures to see that these miners receive their pension? Does he not realise that while the grass is growing the horse is starving?

The hon. Gentleman says that there are no difficulties, but one difficulty that occurs to one is where to find £2½ million when one is in the red and going further into the red every week.

asked the Paymaster-General to what extent the National Coal Board has been successful in producing briquettes, particularly the smokeless type; and if he will make a statement of anticipated supplies for the current year.

One and a quarter million tons of ordinary briquettes and 700,000 tons of "Phurnacite", a smokeless briquette, were produced in 1957. Production in 1958 will depend upon demand. The Board is developing new types of smokeless briquettes and a pilot plant will start operating this year in South Wales.

Is there not bound to be a growing demand for the briquette, particularly the smokeless briquette, as a result of the operation of the Clean Air Act? Will the Parliamentary Secretary assure the House that he will do his utmost to try to produce this smokeless briquette at reasonable prices so as to encourage the change-over, particularly by the domestic householder?

Certainly that is a very desirable thing, but I am sure the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that there are technical difficulties and it would be a waste of money to launch out until we are sure that the pilot plan has overcome the technical difficulties relating to this new product.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will now give a more precise estimate of the extent to which the progress of rural electrification is affected by the Government's policy of restricting investment by the Central Electricity Authority.

I cannot yet add anything to the reply that my predecessor gave to the hon. Member for Cleveland (Mr. Palmer) on 25th November.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that certain very important schemes in rural areas are being delayed at present by as much as twelve to eighteen months or two years because of Government policy? Could not the Minister consider giving special consideration to those areas in the remote parts of Wales and Scotland where there is a considerable amount of leeway to be made up?

It might perhaps reassure the hon. Member if I point out that we are about six months ahead of schedule in this matter. If he looks at the figures for 1950–51 in his constituency and the most recent figures, he will find that we are doing about four times as much as was done when this Government took office.

Is my hon. Friend aware that certain electricity boards refuse to extend supplies to rural areas, even in cases where farmers and concerns are generally prepared to pay in whole or in part? Ought not that to be looked into in relation to the fact that the credit squeeze may continue for some time?

We shall certainly look into anything in relation to this important matter, but my noble Friend will probably appreciate that very often when these extra connections are made many tend to be in the most extreme and uneconomical parts of a district where there may very well be much more substantial financial losses at stake than at first sight may appear to the individual asking for the connection to be made.

asked the Paymaster-General what alterations have been made in the nuclear power programme and oil contracts in view of the expected increase in the consumption of small coal at the electric power stations.

The revision of the oil programme is such as will enable the power stations to utilise up to 3 million tons more small coal per annum in the nineteen-sixties. The rephasing of the nuclear programme was necessitated by the revision of the capital investment programme. It will however result in an increased use of small coal of a similar order.

asked the Paymaster-General the total of sales of electricity to farm premises measured in kilowatts in 1951 and 1957.

It is not possible to measure sales in kilowatts. Sales of electricity to farm premises in England and Wales were 490 million kilowatt-hours in 1951 and about 1,220 million kilowatt-hours in 1957.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that correction, may I ask whether he agrees that this increase in consumption is a good and fair measure of the increased rural electrification programme? Can he assure us that there will be no decrease in the pace of that programme in the coming year?

I do not think I could give that assurance, but certainly this dramatic increase is one more instance of some practical work done for the improvement of the countryside, and naturally we hope that it will continue.

Is it not the case that pre-war the average number of farms connected with electricity was 4,000 a year whereas since nationalisation it has been averaging about 12,000 a year?

The right hon. Gentleman must not do this post hoc-propter hoc on every occasion. Electricity is growing quite irrespective of party political slogans.

asked the Paymaster-General how many people died in 1957 as a result of gas poisoning, other than suicide cases; and what steps are being taken to reduce these fatalities.

Figures for the whole of 1957 are not yet available but for England and Wales for the year ended 30th September, 1957, 572 deaths were provisionally assigned to accidental town's gas poisoning in homes and residential institutions. Much is being done by the gas boards assisted by voluntary organisations to educate consumers in the safe use of gas and to inspect installations and appliances used by elderly people, particularly those living alone. Research and development to make appliances more foolproof and gas less dangerous is being pressed forward under the guidance of the Minister's Standing Committee on Gas Poisoning Accidents.

Is not that an appalling figure? Is the Minister aware that, given the best will in the world, consumers cannot possibly be aware of faults in installations? Is it not often the case that the installations are very old and that in many houses like those in my constituency, where the gas piping was installed at the beginning of this century, houses have been turned into bed-sitting rooms, each room with a gas fire and a gas ring, which causes too heavy a load on the installation? Can he not look into the possibility of some routine inspection in order to safeguard consumers?

One can never be satisfied that everything is perfect. We are all doing our best about this matter. The hon. Lady will be pleased to know that the number which I have given is substantially down on that of the previous year and also that I am advised that the accidents are rarely found to be due to faulty appliances. I repeat, every effort must be made and is being made to reduce the number as far as possible.

How many of these 572 deaths were due to an escape of gas from the mains before it entered the pipe supplying the house?

I am afraid I cannot give that answer without notice. Perhaps the hon. Member will put down a Question.

asked the Paymaster-General what report he has received, under Section 5 of the Iron and Steel Act, 1953, from the Iron and Steel Board in respect of the adequate development of the iron and steel industry.

None, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that it has been widely stated that the development of the steel industry is being held up because of the possibility of political change? Is that true or is it simply an exaggeration on the part of the directors of steel companies?

If the hon. Member wants the view of Her Majesty's Government, as far as I can express it, I should think that the possibility of political change, which is very unlikely, would be a handicap to any business. All I am saying in answer to this Question is something more narrow; I am simply saying that we have not received any representation to the effect that the industry is unable to produce the fourth steel strip mill.

Would the Minister ask the industry to give instances of any case where it has been held up by this possibly difficult political situation?

I very much doubt whether the increase of knowledge which we should obtain would be worth the waste of time involved in the Ministry or in the Steel Board.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will use his powers under Section 16 (1) of the Iron and Steel Act, 1953, to request the Iron and Steel Board to include in its next annual report the results of its inquiry into trade practices in the iron and steel industry which stand in the way of the efficient, economic and adequate supply of iron and steel products.

Such a request is unnecessary. The Iron and Steel Board has been surveying all trade practices in the industry to see if there is anything standing in the way of the efficient, economic and adequate supply of iron and steel products. It intends to report to my noble Friend and then include an account of the inquiry in the next Annual Report.

Is the hon. Member aware that the Board has been about three years on the job? Does he not think it would be of great interest to the House if it got a move on?

The Iron and Steel Board has one or two other things to do, but I am sure that it will report as soon as possible. As soon as my noble Friend has the report, if any action is called for it will be taken.

asked the Paymaster-General what are the terms of the appointment of Mr. A. G. Stewart as a member of the Iron and Steel Board; and what salary and allowances are paid to Mr. Stewart.

Mr. Stewart was appointed a part-time member for a period of two years from 19th October, 1956, at a salary of £1,000 per annum. He does not receive any allowances but is reimbursed any travelling and subsistence expenses necessarily incurred on the business of the Board.

Has the Minister noticed that Mr. Stewart has stated that he is about to put himself at the head of a political campaign directed against the policies of one of the two major parties in the State in relation to the affairs of the steel industry? Does he think that an action of this kind is compatible with the impartial discharge of his duties as a member of the Iron and Steel Board?

Surely it is rather cock-eyed doctrine that, when a gentleman has been found suitable to carry out the Statute as passed by Parliament, he should be asked to resign because he wants to stop people from changing it.

Would the hon. Member have applied that kind of reasoning to the members of the Iron and Steel Corporation at the time that his Government brought in the present Act?

I do not think that arises out of this Question. If the unhappy occasion should ever arise in the future when we have to re-unscramble, we will take notice of the hon. Member's Question.

asked the Paymaster-General how the prices for the main categories of iron and steel scrap, as set out in Statutory Instrument, 1957, No. 1271, compare approximately with those ruling in other European countries and the United States of America.

As the hon. Member recognises, no exact comparison is possible, but broadly speaking the current delivered prices for comparable qualities of scrap are a pound or two per ton lower in the United Kingdom than in America; up to four pounds lower than in the countries of the European Coal and Steel Community; and up to three pounds higher than in Sweden. There are also certain levy payments on scrap purchases which complicate the picture and tend to inflate United Kingdom and Community prices relatively to American and Swedish prices.

asked the Paymaster-General whether he will exercise his powers of price control of petrol and diesel oil so as to bring to an end the present system whereby different prices are fixed in various parts of the country.

No, Sir.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the system of fixing prices by zones involves road hauliers in extra administrative costs and operates to the disadvantage of those road hauliers who are based in the more isolated parts of the country?

I am afraid not, Mr. Speaker. It still remains true that if one has to carry a thing further it costs more and, by and large, the consumer should pay.

asked the Minister of Health whether the statement of Dr. W. S. Maclay, a principal medical officer of his Department, made in Toronto on 22nd January, particulars of which have been sent to him by the hon. Member for Carlisle, was made with his authority; how far the conclusion embodied in it was based upon facts collated within his Department; and how many of the cases of apparently improper certification, on medical grounds, that have been brought to the notice of his Department by the same hon. Member were studied in arriving at this conclusion.

I understand that this statement was made in the course of a long and comprehensive address to a meeting of Canadian psychiatrists on our British Mental Health Services. It was intended only as a humorous reference to some medical certificates which, as evidence of unsound mind, had been rejected by the Board of Control over a number of years. The rest of the Question therefore does not arise, but the answer to the last part is "None."

Does not my right hon. Friend appreciate that Dr. Maclay, in his statement in Toronto, a report of which stated:

"… that doctors' reasons for certifying patients as being of unsound mind 'often makes ole wonder whether it is the doctor or the patient who should be certified'"

was, in fact, drawing attention in, perhaps, rather colourful fashion to the same problem of improper certification that I have submitted to my right hon. Friend and to his predecessors, and will he not ask Dr. Maclay to amplify his statement or his return to this country?

I will certainly discuss it with Dr. Maclay, but I do not think it would be very rewarding to pursue seriously with him something that was meant in lighter vein to sugar the pill of the solid and serious argument to which he was addressing himself on this occasion.

asked the Minister of Health how far the statement concerning certifications made by Dr. W. S. Maclay, a principal medical officer of his Department, in Toronto on 22nd January, details of which have been sent to him, was based upon evidence known to his Department.

I would refer the hon. Member to my Answer given today to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Dr. D. Johnson).

But how can the Minister justify saying that it was said in fun when thousands of people in this country are being certified by one doctor without any special knowledge of mental troubles? When one of his chief representatives goes abroad and makes a statement like that, how can he say he was just having fun? If the Minister is making fun of it, does he not think of the thousands of people who are having to bear this stigma—and their children and grandchildren? Surely, it is not a thing to make fun about.

As I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows, it is not an uncommon practice among practised and persuasive speakers to try to introduce a little lighter note into a serious argument, and it has never been held that that convicts them of any improper levity in their approach to a serious subject.

asked the Minister of Health how many of the cars supplied to disabled persons have been replaced with new cars, apart from those replaced because they were damaged in accidents.

The figure is 158 in England and Wales.

asked the Minister of Health what composite packs are now available under the National Health Service on a single prescription payment for patients suffering from colostomy, diabetes, and other chronic complaints needing more than one item for treatment.

With permission, I will circulate the list in the OFFICIAL REPORT. It is hoped to add to this a new dressings pack suitable, among other purposes, for the dressing of chronic ulcers.

Is not the Minister aware, as I think most hon. Members are, that this list is lamentably short? Would it not be possible for him, in order to overcome the difficulties of physical packing of various items together, to have a separate coloured prescription form for certain chronic illnesses, so that, where a number of items had to be prescribed for chronic illnesses, the chemist would know that he should charge only a shilling for the batch of items, irrespective of whether or not they could actually be packed together?

We have been having discussions on this subject, as the hon. Lady will know, with the British Medical Association, but it has not yet been possible to devise any packs beyond those we already have. However, discussions are continuing, to ensure that all possibilities of meeting the needs of the chronic sick are explored, and I will certainly give consideration to any suggestion coming from the hon. Lady in that regard.

Why have there been years of delay in deciding this very simple matter?

I do not think there have been years of delay. We have these discussions in order that we can give effect to any practical ideas which may emerge for producing these packs.

Following is the list:

• Atomiser.
• Smog Mask.
• Vaporiser.
• Hypodermic Syringe.
• Urine Sugar Analysis Set.
• Colostomy Apparatus.
• Suprapubic Belt.
• Douche.
• Higginson's Enema Syringe.

asked the Minister of Health what financial assistance he will offer local authorities to help them increase their provision for the welfare and care of mentally sick and defective persons on their discharge from hospitals and institutions.

I would refer the hon. Member to my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon, South's (Mr. R. Thompson), reply to his Question of the 9th December.

While we all welcome the Minister's administrative decision to review cases in mental deficiency institutions, does he not recognise that we are also very concerned about the possibility of providing alternative accommodation when those cases come back to their own towns and their own homes? Would he not do something to make it more possible for local authorities to increase their accommodation and provision for the welfare and care of these cases?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's concern in this matter, but the question is one that requires consideration in the context of our present economic circumstances. With reference to the expressed recommendation of the Royal Commission, that would, of course, require legislation, which has to be considered in the general context of legislation arising out of the Commission's Report.

asked the Minister of Health how many thoracic surgeons of consultant status are employed part-time and full-time by the Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham and each of the