I desire, Mr. Speaker, to present a Petition on behalf of 13,501 signatories, supported by the Independent Schools Association, which embraces 600 independent schools, the Rev. Dr. Sangster, General Secretary of the Methodist Church, who has written in general support on behalf of the members of this Church, and also some 400 members of the Clapham Old Xaverians Association and the Wimbledon Common Youth Council.

Wherefore, in view of the alarming number of sexual offences against young children, your Petitioners urge upon the House the need for taking immediate action to establish an institution for the treatment of such offenders, with the assurance that such persons shall not be released until cured.

And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

asked the Minister of Supply, in view of the unemployment situation in Northern Ireland, if he will ensure that the sub-contracting facilities of Messrs. Short Bros. and Harland are made available in the fullest degree for the construction of the new British European Airways Corporation jet airliner.

I am ready to do everything I properly can to place work in Northern Ireland, but I have no powers of direction in the case of sub-contracts relating to the British European Airways jet. I am sure, however, that Messrs. Short Bros. and Harland will make every effort to secure sub-contracts for the construction of the new aircraft.

Whilst thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply and appreciating his difficulties in the matter, may I ask him if he will use his best endeavours to ensure that the experience of Messrs. Short Bros. and Harland in the special fields of experiment is taken fully into account when placing production orders?

Yes, Sir, I have that consideration very much in mind.

asked the Minister of Supply what steps have been taken by his Department for the benefit of workers of the Royal Ordnance factories at Radway Green and Swynnerton to organise the production of civil goods.

The suitability of the equipment at Radway Green for civil work is very limited, but some orders have been obtained and I have every prospect of being able to maintain employment there. As I explained in reply to the hon. Member's Question on 15th July, the Swynnerton Factory is no longer needed for defence purposes and is being closed.

Though good work has been done in finding alternative jobs for many Swynnerton workers, is the Minister aware that many workers in Swynnerton, which we know is being closed down, and Radway Green remain redundant and unable to find jobs, which is causing tension, and will he pursue vigorously, as he promised to do, the placing of contracts by British Railways for Radway Green?

I am doing that. The difficulty as far as Swynnerton is concerned, and I am aware of the obstacle, is that the factory is not suitable for the production of civil goods, being, in fact, a filling factory and, therefore, composed of a collection of relatively small hutments.

As an alternative, would my right hon. Friend consider letting out part of the factory to private firms, if they were interested to take up such accommodation, in which to manufacture civil goods?

I am not sure to which factory my hon. Friend is referring—

Radway Green.

but I should be happy to do that with regard to any factory where the circumstances are suitable.

asked the Minister of Supply what was the cost of installing the facilities for machining graphite blocks at the Royal Ordnance Factory, Cardiff; to what extent the machines are now idle; and what efforts have been made to ensure that the four groups now constructing nuclear power stations use these facilities.

The answers to the first two parts of the Question are £32,000 and about 40 per cent., respectively. The expenditure was largely incurred in transferring and adapting machinery which the Department already possessed. The military demand for this work is a fluctuating one and it is desirable to even out the fluctuations with civil work. To this end, my Department is trying to secure orders from the industrial groups to which the hon. Member refers.

Can the Minister say why these groups have refused to use these facilities? Is it true that they themselves are duplicating facilities? Is the Minister aware that because of this situation a very strong report was circulating in Cardiff at the weekend that the Royal Ordnance Factory there is to be closed down? Will he please reassure us about this and indicate once again that there is no intention of closing down this factory?

I do not think it is right to say that the industrial consortia have refused all offers in this respect. Negotiations are still in progress. For my part, I should welcome the placing of orders here, and I should certainly deprecate the duplication of facilities which are already in existence.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the second part of my question?

As I understand it, the second part of the question referred not to the atomic part of the Royal Ordnance Factory but to the wider field. The facts as they now stand do not warrant the suggestion made by the hon. Gentleman.

It was not made by me.

asked the Minister of Supply what plans have been prepared by his Department for conversion of war factories to peace production in the event of an international agreement to disarm.

It would be premature to try and prepare such plans until some agreement on disarmament is in sight and something definite is known about its probable scope.

Is the Minister aware that it is late to prepare such plans when redundancy is already being created? Is not the lesson which we should have learned that it is necessary to prepare beforehand for a rundown of defence contracts and to have some plans ready to put into operation for the conversion of the production of these factories to civil goods? Should not the Minister now take this responsibility?

I hope the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the nature of the plans depends on the nature of the agreement, in what kind of weapons the reduction takes place and the scope of the reduction.

Will the Minister read the report of the debate in the House last Monday in which concern was expressed from many quarters about the effect of the changes already announced in defence policy? Are we to understand from the Minister that no plans are being made to meet this contingency?

I have read the report of last Monday's debate. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to appreciate that it is very difficult to prepare plans to meet a situation which at the moment is entirely hypothetical.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Supply if he is now in a position to make a statement about his future policy on aircraft research and development.

No, Sir; but I shall do so as soon as possible.

Can the Minister tell us what considerations are holding up this statement? The defence statement is out and, presumably, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made up his mind about the broad outlines of the financial possibilities. Does not the Minister understand that it is necessary to know whether we are to have sufficient fundamental research in this country to support an aircraft construction industry? How much longer are we to wait?

When I first referred to this inquiry before Christmas, I said that I should endeavour to make a statement before spring. I understand that spring starts at 3 a.m. on 21st March. I will, however, endeavour to make a statement as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Supply when he expects to make a decision with regard to the purchase of a military freight transport aircraft; and whether this proposed purchase represents the last of the requirements now contemplated for a military transport machine.

A study is now being made by the Service Departments of new requirements for freighter aircraft of all types, and I am in close consultation with them.

Everyone is asking that the aircraft industry should reshape itself, and that there should be mergers and a general new start in the industry. How can it reshape itself and how can a new start be made unless it knows what are the requirements of the biggest customer, namely, the British Government? When will there be a decision about this? Before the spring?

The hon. Gentleman tried to catch me out a moment ago on an earlier promise I made in the matter of time. I think, therefore, that I had better refrain from making a further promise in this respect. I appreciate that this is an urgent matter, and the examination is being undertaken with a sense of the urgency.

asked the Minister of Health if he will authorise payments to nurses for overtime duties.

This question has so far arisen only in respect of mental and mental deficiency nurses who are already paid for excess hours worked.

While recognising that and that the conditions for nurses have considerably improved, although they are still much lower than those for industrial workers, may I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman at least to see that their devotion is not exploited by the refusal of payment when they do overtime?

No claim for payment of this sort has so far been made for the general nurses, and as far as I know none is contemplated.

asked the Minister of Health whether the number of patients treated per bed at the non-teaching hospitals increased or decreased between 1955 and 1956; and by how much.

There was an increase from 6·96 to 7·13 in terms of patients whose treatment was terminated. For patients other than those under treatment for mental illness and mental deficiency, the corresponding figures were 12·7 and 13·0.

Does not my right hon. and learned Friend agree that these increases reflect the greatest credit upon both the administrative and the medical staff involved?

Yes. I am obliged to my hon. Friend for that. It is certainly so.

asked the Minister of Health the number of psychiatric inpatient units that have been initiated in general hospitals during the past five years; and what are these hospitals.

With permission, I will circulate the list of hospitals in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Health how many staff are engaged in the Hospital Organisation and Methods Service; what assignments are at present being undertaken by it; and whether he can yet announce how much he proposes to extend this service.

Nine. Eight comparative studies and twelve individual assignments are in hand. In addition, twenty assignments at individual hospitals have been accepted but not yet started. I am considering how, and in what form, this service can best be extended.

Without exaggerating the virtues of this technique, does not my right hon. and learned Friend feel that a staff of nine is grossly inadequate when put to use in such a vast organisation employing almost the third largest man-power force of the whole country; and when he comes to consider what he proposes to do, will he bear in mind that much benefit could be gained by circulating the results of each inquiry, as it is held, to comparable institutions so that all may benefit?

The last part of my hon. Friend's question is really more applicable, I think, to the comparative studies than to the individual assignments, because of the variety of circumstances to which the individual assignments relate.

asked the Minister of Health if he will now state when he intends to implement the Noel Hall Report on Administrative and Clerical Workers (Hospital Service).

asked the Minister of Health whether he will now make a statement regarding the implementation of the Noel Hall Report.

asked the Minister of Health what advice he has received from the Whitley Council which has been considering Sir Noel Hall's Report; and what action he will take to implement the recommendations of the Report.

I cannot yet add to my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, North (Mr. J. Iremonger) on 28th January.

The Minister will know that this matter is still with the Whitley Council and, in view of his record in previous negotiations of the Whitley Council, the Minister will understand the great uneasiness that is felt by many people about this. May I ask for an assurance that if, in fact, recommendations are made to implement much of the Noel Hall Report, which includes the grading structure, and, therefore, means increased salaries for the staff involved, he will not veto that decision but will, in fact, pay them?

I do not think it is constitutional for me to bind myself in the exercise of a statutory duty the time for which has not yet arrived. However, I will certainly tell the hon. Gentleman and the House that I am very hopeful that on this occasion the subcommittee before whom this question now is will arrive at a viable solution which will give general satisfaction. That is certainly my hope.

The Minister very recently announced a decision in advance of the time he was called upon to make it in the case of the radiographers' claim. Can he give some indication that there will be finality in this matter at an early date, because he knows as well as we all do that this is really urgent in the National Health Service?

With respect, I think that the two cases are clearly distinguishable. In this case, the circumstances have not, as yet, arisen on which I could take a definitive decision in the exercise of my statutory powers. In the case of the radiographers, that time had, in fact, come, and I simply wrote to both sides of the Whitley Council so that there should be no misunderstanding and neither side should feel that it had been embarrassed by not knowing what was in our mind at that stage.

Does the Minister fully recognise the very great difficulties there are in securing in the National Health Service proper appointments in the higher as well as other clerical grades, and that to a very large extent we are now dependent on part-time employment? Is it not highly desirable that every possible encouragement, and an early decision, should be given?

I certainly recognise and have always proclaimed the desirability of having a proper and satisfactory career structure in this service. It is for that reason that Sir Noel Hall was asked to make his Report, and it is to get the right implementation of that Report that the sub-committee is now at work.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the fact that the survey in 1954 revealed that about 10,000 of the elderly patients in mental hospitals could be discharged if accommodation was available in old people's homes or chronic sick hospitals, what action has since been taken to supply this need; and in how many cases the changeover was made effective.

The figure to which the hon. Member refers was an estimate based on a sample inquiry; and it was not suggested that any large number of patients could be discharged, but rather that future admissions should be redirected or discharged earlier. Various developments of local authority and hospital services have been in progress to facilitate this; for example, in England and Wales since 1954 the number of places in old people's homes has increased by some 10,000, and that of available hospital beds for the chronic sick by 1,750.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that expert evidence before the Royal Commission indicated that large numbers of old people were being certified and sent to mental hospitals solely because this country has not provided suitable alternative accommodation for them? If the right hon. Gentleman has any doubts, will he arrange for another survey to be taken so that we may know what the position is up to date?

The survey referred to in the hon. Gentleman's Question was the survey to which I have referred, and the inferences from which were described in the Chief Medical Officer's Report for 1954. A substantial number of elderly mental patients are, in fact, discharged from mental hospitals, and there has been a considerable increase in the hospital beds available for the chronic sick, including beds in psychiatric long-stay annexes.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that it is urgently necessary that he should give some indication to the local authorities of what extra financial provision he is going to make to help them to provide the accommodation which we all agree is needed in our local authority areas? Is it not time that he made some statement, especially as the Local Government Bill is going through Committee?

Yes, but not before discussions with the local authority associations on this point.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the fact is that these people need hospital accommodation? Is he further aware that they are certified because there is no proper aged persons' hospital accommodation? The matter is not settled by having homes for them to go into; it is settled by not certifying these people. Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider the recommendation of the Royal Commission, in lieu of legislation, that some parts of mental hospitals should be de-designated in order that they could be treated as ordinary hospitals for elderly people, so doing away with this awful stigma of certification?

As the hon. Lady knows, I am reviewing all possible action which is open to me, on an administrative basis, prior to the introduction of legislation.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend, in conjunction with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government, encourage so far as he can the development of special housing accommodation for these elderly people, the majority of whom are not at all anxious to spend their days of retirement in homes or mental hospitals but wish to stay in their own quarters with some kind of home help, if possible?

I appreciate the point made by my hon. Friend. He will recall that we had a full and, I think, interesting debate on these questions in November last.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement on the decisions reached at the meeting of the Joint Consultants Committee held on 27th February to discuss the senior registrar problem.

After a further discussion with officials, the representatives of the Joint Committee expressed a desire to discuss the subject with me. I have intimated my readiness to meet them at an early date.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say for how long this matter, which was urgent two and a half years ago, is going to drag on? How is it that this Committee managed to complicate what is essentially quite a simple problem? Who are the stumbling blocks to a solution—his Department or the consultants?

I am anxious to get an appropriate solution of this problem, the urgency of which I have already recognised in this House, by general agreement if at all possible; but an appropriate solution I must have in any event, and I have no doubt that the Committee will take note of the interest of hon. Members on this subject.

Is it not the case that this meeting on 27th February reached a deadlock because the Minister wanted to make the setting up of the sub-consultant grade a condition for relieving the distress of the registrars?

No, I do not think that that represents a full or faithful précis of the Committee's decision. I am looking forward to seeing the Committee myself and discussing the problem with it. I hope the hon. Gentleman does not dissent from what I apprehend is the general view of hon. Members, that there ought to be a solution to this problem, and pretty quickly, too.

Could the right hon. and learned Gentleman say how many registrars are wholly or partly unemployed while awaiting the decision of the Committee?

No, not without notice. Perhaps the hon. Lady will be good enough to put that Question down.

asked the Minister of Health why he requires the staff at Rampton Mental Hospital to sign a declaration under the Official Secrets Act that they will not divulge any information they may learn in the course of their duties.

asked the Minister of Health if he will abolish the operation of the Official Secrets Act from Rampton State Institution.

I would refer to my Answer of 17th February to the hon. Member for Erith and Crayford (Mr. Dodds).

Is the Minister aware that that does not answer the question? What the Minister answered then was that there were two hospitals out of the whole National Health Service. I want to ask him now why it is necessary, under the National Health Service, for the staff to sign the Official Secrets Act declaration. Is this not a reason why it is so difficult to get official information out of Rampton?

No, Sir. The Official Secrets Act is an Act of general operation. All civil servants on appointment sign this declaration simply to ensure that they are aware of its provisions. All staff of hospitals, including the war pensioner hospitals, who are, in fact, civil servants, sign the declaration.

asked the Minister of Health how long Peter Whitehead was detained in Rampton Institution; why he was sent there; what were the reasons for his long detention; why he was released; and, in view of the unsatisfactory features of the case, what investigations have been held or are contemplated.

This patient was sent to Rampton Hospital because the Board of Control were satisfied that he was of dangerous or violent propensities. He was there for two periods amounting to 9½ years because he needed the special care and supervision provided at a State institution. He was released because the Board considered that he could be safely discharged. No investigation has been held and none is contemplated.

Will the Minister deny that, after being in Rampton twelve years, this man was discharged on the morning of the day his case had to be heard in the High Court in the afternoon? Is that not a strange coincidence? Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that, in another place last week, the Lord Bishop of Southwell, who visits Rampton frequently for religious duties, made it clear that the authorities had made a mistake—

Order. I do not think the hon. Gentleman is in order in referring to what was said in another place.

I understood that one could not quote from a debate in the other place, but that one could paraphrase—as I have heard many times in the House.

No; the hon. Member may not do that at Question Time.

I was asked, I think, if that might be thought a coincidence. It may well have been, but I have nothing to add.

In view of the unsatisfactory answer, I give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Health what facilities exist in Holborn and St. Pancras for emergency hospital admissions; whether he is aware that, owing to the large number of teaching hospitals with a discriminatory admissions policy, local doctors frequently experience difficulty in securing emergency admissions; and if he will make a statement.

All hospitals in Holborn and St. Pancras admit emergencies. The emergency bed service will assist any doctor in difficulty to find a bed, if not in this district at some other hospital in the London area. If the hon. Member has any particular case of difficulty in mind and will let me have details. I shall be glad to look into it.

I thank the Minister for that reply. I will certainly be sending him some very difficult cases. Is he aware that one of the problems arises because teaching hospitals are exempted from the findings of the medical referee who works with the emergency bed service, and that patients who may be gravely ill are often refused admission if they do not happen to provide interesting clinical material? Will he look at that aspect of the problem?

Yes. Teaching hospitals must necessarily discriminate to some extent in the type of patient they admit if they are to fulfil their teaching function. They must, of course, also play their part in the hospital service of the district, and we have to strike a balance. I am satisfied that, generally speaking, that is done.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied with the operation of the emergency bed service throughout the country?

That is rather another question. Last winter, of course, the service was under exceptionally heavy pressure because of the influenza epidemic, but I think that it proved itself equal to the task.

asked the Minister of Health what action he recommends local authorities to take when samples of ice cream give repeatedly low grade results when tested with methylene blue.

Such results are regarded as indicating defects of manufacture or handling which call for further investigation, and this would depend on the circumstances in the individual case.

Supposing that that further investigation shows equally bad results? What does the local authority do then?

My hon. Friend wrote to my predecessor last August about the sampling of a particular manufacturer's ice cream which was showing poor results. Our latest figures show that in November and December, 1957, all samples taken in the Trowbridge area satisfied the methylene blue test.

Did they also satisfy the test that a certain minimum percentage of cream should be contained in the ice cream?

No, Sir, for this test relates to bacterial cleanliness.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that a similar service to that of the Worthing experiment in domiciliary psychiatry extended throughout the country would prevent no less than 50,000 admissions to mental hospitals yearly; that, calculating the overall cost of each admission at £560, even allowing for irreducible hospital establishment overheads and for the cost of the domiciliary service, the saving thereby effected could not be less than £10 million per year; and whether he will produce plans on a national basis to ensure that this large saving be made in the next financial year.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to him on 3rd February.

In addition to what he has said, will my right hon. and learned Friend give an assurance that, in the development of a service of this kind, no administrative divisions will be allowed to stand in the way? Will he look at that point in particular?

I can certainly assure my hon. Friend that we are looking with great interest at the Worthing experiment and that we shall certainly seek to get full value out of any lessons which it has to teach.

asked the Minister of Health the number of doctors practising in under-doctored areas; and the number of patients in these areas in 1952 and 1957.

There were 3,484 doctors practising in under-doctored areas in July, 1956, the latest date for which figures are available. The approximate number of patients in such areas decreased from 21½ million in 1952 to 9½ million in 1956.

How often are these under-doctored areas reviewed?

The under-doctored areas are the areas designated as such by the Medical Practices Committee. They are the areas to which additional doctors can be admitted without question. As far as I know, there is what could be described as a continuous process of review by the Medical Practices Committee.

asked the Minister of Health the total number of deaths through cancer from 1945 up to and including 1957.

The number of cancer deaths recorded in England and Wales from 1945 to 30th June, 1957, was 1,064,475.

Is it not possible to persuade the Treasury to give a little more money for cancer research, or have we to wait until the cancer position is as appalling as the tuberculosis position used to be?

There is a Question later on the Order Paper on this subject. I think the hon. Member will see that there is a gratifying increase in this amount.

asked the Minister of Health, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what is the current expenditure from public funds on cancer research; and between which bodies the Government grant is divided.

Expenditure by the Medical Research Council from public funds on cancer research during the year 1957–58 is estimated at approximately £390,000. Cancer research is also carried out in the National Health Service in the course of treatment of patients, but it is not possible to make a separate estimate for the expenditure involved.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the figures he gave earlier this afternoon will shock the country, which is already very disturbed by the increase in cancer? Is he satisfied that no promising line of research has been neglected through lack of funds? Is he also aware that the country would not begrudge any sum of money in respect of the alleviation of the terrible sufferings of this disease?

The figures in the earlier Question to which the hon. Gentleman refers were figures of mortality, much of which is due to the increase of lung cancer in men, which is not a matter solely for research. So far as concerns this Question, which refers to research, the amount spent on research is a good deal higher this financial year than last, and compares very favourably with the year 1950–51, in which the comparative figure was only £.157,000.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will consider the appointment of an inter-departmental committee of inquiry to consider the facilities offered by local authorities to homeless families under Part III of the National Assistance Act.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) on 11th February by my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal on behalf of the Prime Minister.

Arising from that reply, is not the Minister aware that a very serious position now exists, as a a number of local authorities are not, in fact, carrying out their duties under the Act at all, with the result that those authorities that do try to comply with the Act have a much heavier task than they otherwise would?

This matter is under consideration by the Ministers concerned, and what the hon. Gentleman says will certainly be borne in mind in that consideration.

asked the Minister of Health what guidance he has given to local welfare authorities as to the course they should recommend to disabled persons threatened with eviction under the Rent Act who apply to them for advice.

My right hon. and learned Friend does not think that any general guidance to local welfare authorities on this subject is necessary or, indeed, appropriate, and he has not communicated with them.

Will the Minister consult the Minister of Housing and Local Government to find out what was in his right hon. Friend's mind when, replying to a supplementary question, he advised disabled persons threatened with eviction to apply to the local welfare authority? Is he aware that local welfare authorities do not understand to what he was referring?

Yes, Sir. I think my right hon. Friend had in mind that local authorities which had made a scheme under Section 29 of the National Assistance Act for the welfare of handicapped persons, on the lines suggested in the model scheme, have an obligation to give advice and guidance to handicapped persons on personal problems. I think that that is what he had in mind.

But will he make this clear to local authorities?

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether an elderly person suffering from chronic arthritis would be regarded as a handicapped person in that case?

I do not think any general guidance is necessary. Cases vary very widely, and I think they must be judged on an individual basis.

asked the Minister of Health if he is satisfied that an adequate number of eyes is being bequeathed for the purposes of corneal grafting under the Corneal Grafting Act, 1952; and if he will make a statement.

According to my information, the supply appears to be adequate in most parts of the country. I understand, however, that there may be some shortage in the London area, and steps are being taken accordingly.

Does not the Minister think that periodical announcements in the legal journals drawing the attention of testators to this matter might prove very helpful?

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for the suggestion. He will appreciate that, at the present time, most eyes used in corneal grafting are, because of the time factor, from patients dying in hospital.

asked the Minister of Health what arrangements have been made for the regular publication of a short summary of health service statistics.

A summary of health service statistics is given in the Annual Reports of my Department. The question of further or alternative statistical statements is at present being considered.

Does not the Minister recognise that, valuable as they are, the annual reports are not as a rule published until at least a year has gone by; and that there is need for public education as to the real cost of the National Health Service, and that it should be examined more carefully?

What I am hoping is that we shall get a summary table of the National Health Service statistics included in the Monthly Digest of Statistics issued by the Central Statistical Office. I think that would meet the point the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether he can keep up to date the figures which were produced by the Guillebaud Committee, which gave some very valuable bases for estimating the actual cost of the health services?

I noted what the hon. Gentleman had to say about that in last Tuesday's debate, and I hope, if I am successful in catching Mr. Speaker's eye in the debate on Wednesday, that I might say a word about that topic then.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in certain cases patients on grounds of expense are collecting fewer than the total number of items on their prescription forms; and, in view of the danger to health that may arise where the complete script is not supplied, what steps he proposes to take.

I have no evidence that this is happening, and do not consider that any special steps are necessary.

If I send the right hon. and learned Gentleman evidence that this is happening, and happening frequently, will he look into it? Why is he not aware that there are chemists in the London area who find this happening about once a week, are being put in an impossible position, and are sending the prescription form to the executive council clearly marked, "N.S. not supplied"? Why does he not know about these things?

My experience is that normally Ministers and Government Departments are very quickly told by letter or otherwise when things are thought to have been going wrong. All I am saying is that we have not received any evidence, by letter or otherwise, to this effect; but if the hon. Lady has any evidence to put before me, I shall naturally consider it with the greatest care.

Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman made investigations among chemists? Has any person in his Department asked chemists in the London area, where my hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras, South (Mrs. L. Jeger) lives, whether this is so or not?

I do not think it would be appropriate to carry out a sort of roving inquiry, unless we start with the firm base of some evidence supplied by somebody.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will authorise the use of a specially coloured prescription form for patients suffering from agreed chronic diseases, which would entitle them to obtain all the items prescribed on payment of a single shilling.

I do not think such a scheme would be practicable.

Why not?

Primarily, as the hon. Lady will appreciate, because the doctor would be put in an impossible position in deciding whether to prescribe on a coloured form, for it is not practicable to lay down a standard list of conditions.

asked the Minister of Health the average number of patients on doctors' lists in July, 1952, and July, 1957.

The number was 2,436 in July, 1952; I regret that the figure for July, 1957 is not yet available but in July, 1956, it was 2,272.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend say whether this reduction in the average list indicates a better distribution of doctors?

Yes, Sir. I think it clearly does so; in fact, the trend has been for a smaller number of patients per doctor's list every year since 1952.

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman realise that some lists are very small and that this high average must mean that some lists are very much higher than the figure he gave? Is not 2,272 a sufficient number of patients for any doctor?

The hon. Gentleman, with all his expert knowledge of this subject, will appreciate that doctors' lists are inevitably a little inflated because of the delay in removing the names of patients who die, leave the district and so on. Although these are the statistical figures, I think he can take it that the real average is a bit below what the figures suggest.

asked the Minister of Health by what means he is kept regularly informed of the dangers to health arising from nuclear explosions; and what liaison he has established with the health authorities in other countries for this purpose.

I rely on the Medical Research Council to keep me informed of any such dangers within my sphere of responsibility. They are in touch with expert opinion in other countries, and I have not found it necessary to establish any special liaison arrangements for this particular purpose.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the country is continuing to get a good deal of conflicting evidence from reputable and well-known scientists on this subject, and that some of this evidence is extremely alarming? Would he consider taking the initiative and making an approach himself to those responsible for health in other countries in order that they might make representations to try to put a stop to these unfortunate explosions?

There is no difficulty in contacting other countries in the ordinary way through their national health departments. In addition to that, as the hon. Gentleman will know, we are represented on the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation, which is actively considering the whole subject and will report to the United Nations by 1st July next.

asked the Minister of Health how far his acceptance of the main principles of the Report of the Royal Commission on the Law relating to Mental Illness and Mental Deficiency includes the recommendation that community care in its widest sense shall be the function of local health authorities and that such duties shall be statutorily imposed upon them.

This is one of the principles that is fully accepted; but whether anything would be gained by extending the statuory duties of local authorities is a matter that will require consideration.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say what funds it is proposed to make available to the local authorities to carry out this work? Does he realise that, in the absence of adequate financial provision—which will have to be considerable—there might even have to be a reduction in the community provision for the mentally sick on what is being done at the moment?

I have in mind, as have my right hon. Friends, that the expansion of staff and accommodation which would be necessary to put all these recommendations into effect would call for additional finance. That is the matter which we would have to consider in the light both of the recommendations and of the general requirements of the economic situation.

asked the Minister of Health if he will indicate the two approximate totals of the number of injections of imported Salk vaccine and vaccine produced in the United Kingdom, respectively, which he estimates will have been given when his present poliomyelitis vaccination has been completed.

The programme is a continuing one and no such estimate is, therefore, possible, but up to the present enough vaccine has been issued to local health authorities in England and Wales for 3,900,000 injections with British vaccine and 2,400,000 with Salk.

Will the Minister indicate why he will not import substantially more Salk vaccine? Would he not be able greatly to increase the scope of, and enormously accelerate, his programme if he did so?

Salk vaccine is being imported in very considerable quantities at the present time. During the next few months, supplies of Salk vaccine from Canada and the United States will, in fact, greatly exceed the supply of British vaccine, though that will increase later.

Is it not the fact that the right hon. and learned Gentleman could import much more Salk vaccine than he is doing or intends to do in the next few months?

I am not quite sure what the hon. Gentleman means by "Is it possible to import it?". There is a good deal of Salk vaccine on the other side of the Atlantic, as he will know. What we want to do is to import sufficient, but only sufficient, to supplement our British supplies.

What is the obstacle preventing this large amount of Salk vaccine crossing the Atlantic, apart from the Minister's obduracy about it?

asked the Minister if he will give two approximate figures indicating as far as is at present known the percentage protection given to the population under forty of two and three injections of poliomyelitis vaccine, respectively.

I am advised that there is insufficient scientific evidence to justify the promulgation of percentages for which the hon. Member asks. Vaccination with two injections gives a good degree of protection. A third injection after an appropriate interval is likely to reinforce such protection, but it is not known precisely by how much, except that it falls short of guaranteed immunity.

But is it not well known that a third injection gives a protection vastly superior to that given by just two injections? Is the Minister not, therefore, offering the country a second-best solution to the poliomyelitis problem?

No, I do not know I would agree with the hon. Gentleman in using the words "vastly increased" degree of protection. My advice is that it is best to seek to vaccinate as many as possible of the people within the prescribed priority classes with two injections before proceeding to offer a possible and unknown additional degree of protection by way of a third injection.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that there is a sufficient supply available of poliomyelitis vaccine in North America which has been fully tested for importation so as to enable every person who should be vaccinated against poliomyelitis to be so treated by the supply available in Great Britain supplemented by such imported vaccine; and what steps he is taking to deal with the position accordingly.

Large quantities of Canadian and American vaccine, tested both in the country of origin and in this country, are already being imported for use in the vaccination programme in supplementation of British vaccine. I am keeping both the programme and the supply position under constant review in the light of expert advice.

Would it not be right to say that there is a sufficient supply available in North America to enable all the requirements in this country to be met, and is it not, therefore, very serious that we are not importing as much as we should in order to supplement our own supplies, with the result that cases are remaining untreated in many instances when they should be treated?

No, Sir. The Salk vaccine, before being imported into this country, has to satisfy the full series of safety and potency tests applied to British vaccine, and, on present advice, I am not prepared to agree to Salk vaccine being used unless it has passed those full tests. It is wrong, therefore, to suppose that simply by increasing the orders for Salk one could immediately step up the programme of vaccination.

But have not Canada and the United States very carefully investigated the Salk vaccine, and are not all the medical authorities there concerned prepared to use that vaccine after its thorough investigation? Can the Minister say, in view of the serious position here, why he is not prepared to accept those tests?

This has all been gone into many times before. There is a difference in the virus strain used in these two vaccines, and it is broadly because of that that we put the Salk vaccine through the British tests in this country. So far as I know, that course has commended itself both to the House and to public opinion generally.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is now in a position to ensure that all persons who are exposed to the danger of contracting poliomyelitis in consequence of their work in hospitals or other places, together with their families, have been or will be in the near future treated by poliomyelitis vaccination if they so desire.

Vaccination has been available to hospital staff treating poliomyelitis cases in the infectious stage and to laboratory workers dealing with live poliomyelitis virus since September, 1956. It is now available to general medical practitioners and ambulance staff and to the families of all these groups.

Is the vaccination available to the people who, in addition to those that the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned, are subjected to the possibility of contracting this disease? Does he recollect the case of the Leicester public health officer who died in consequence of the fact that he was not treated? Will he see to it that these people are properly protected when they are put on to jobs which make it possible or probable for them to contract the disease?

So far as concerns the general categories of person to whom the hon. Gentleman's Question refers, they are covered by my reply. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to raise an individual case, perhaps he would be good enough to write to me or to put down a Question.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider releasing to the medical Press reports of the technical reasons for the conclusions of his medical advisers, when he makes major medical decisions which are likely to be of a controversial nature.

Technical information is already made available so far as practicable, both in reports of committees and in memoranda on special subjects.

Does the Minister realise that on frequent occasions he makes medical decisions on the advice of his medical advisers which are quite incomprehensible to the medical profession? Is it not the case that, under the present system, his medical advisers have the power to make up the Minister's mind but no responsibility to indicate the reasons?

I have no evidence that these things are incomprehensible to the general body of medical opinion. If the hon. Gentleman is now saying that they are incomprehensible to him, I will, of course, take that into account as evidence, so far as it goes.