asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations when it is his intention to establish a Legislative Council for Bechuanaland Protectorate.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to a Question by the hon. Member for Accrington (Mr. H. Hynd) on 20th March.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a very provocative speech was made by the South African Minister of Defence, Mr. Erasmus, on 28th March in which he said that the Protectorates of Bechuanaland, Swaziland and Basutoland should be incorporated in the Legislature in the Union? In view of this, would not it be a good thing if Her Majesty's Government were to make a statement on the constitutional future of the Protectorates, particularly Bechuanaland, and about the evolution of the Legislative Council to the full establishment of self-government?

As I have explained on previous occasions, it is the object of Her Majesty's Government to start the building of representative institutions on a local basis. The Government's view on the future of the Protectorates has been set out very clearly on a number of occasions.

Can my hon. Friend go so far as to say that as the district councils prove themselves successful in all districts, a nucleus for a Legislative Council will become available so that it will be able to start functioning?

We are anxious to make a success of the limited experiment which is being undertaken at present, and it is important that we should await the outcome of that experiment.

While appreciating what the Under-Secretary says, may I ask whether he agrees that it is desirable, having regard to the situation in the Protectorates, for us to make clear that it is our desire that they should proceed as other Colonies do towards the establishment of a Legislative Council and self-government? Will the hon. Gentleman make a firm declaration that that is the view of Her Majesty's Government and, indeed, of the whole British nation?

We are most anxious to see continued progress in these Protectorates. We are anxious, as I say, to ensure that any political progress is based soundly upon local institutions and we wish to concentrate particularly upon the economic development of these Protectorates.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations, what steps he is taking to expand the facilities for agricultural education in the Bechuanaland Protectorate.

It is proposed to operate an agricultural training scheme as an adjunct of a trades school in the Bechuanaland Protectorate, when it is established. The present demand for agricultural education does not justify the provision of special training facilities.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that too often in the Colonies there has been an academic bias in our schools, particularly in the mission schools? We are turning out too many clerks and pen-pushers, and yet this is a Protectorate with basically a cattle and farming economy. Leaders like Tshekedi Khama want more extensive schemes of agricultural education. Would not it be a good thing to meet them in this matter and spend more money and give more technical help in promoting such schemes?

I fully agree with the hon. Gentleman on the importance of improving standards of technical training in agriculture and particularly in the cattle industry in the Protectorate. The minimum qualification for agricultural training is the possession of the junior certificate. There are about 46 passes at this standard each year, but none up to the present has shown himself to be particularly interested in agricultural training, although Southern Rhodesia is prepared to accept two or three qualified students for a matriculation course with an agricultural bias. However, I can assure the House that we attach great importance to this aspect of technical training within the Protectorate because its future depends largely upon the standards of agricultural efficiency in its major industry.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations how many official visits were paid to Mafeking by British African leaders from the Bechuanaland Protectorate in 1957; and how many Protectorate Africans were involved.

Official visits were paid to Mafeking on four occasions by leading Africans from the Bechuanaland Protectorate in 1957. Fifteen Africans were involved.

Can the hon. Gentleman confirm that it is only since July last year that leaders like Tshekedi Khama and others have needed official passes to leave their territory and go to the Mafeking capital on the South African side? Does not he think that this is objectionable, as Tshekedi Khama and other Africans do? In view of the atmosphere within and without the Union of South Africa, does not he think that this is a most unlikely way to steady African opinion, particularly in the light of what I said earlier about the comments of Mr. Erasmus?

If the hon. Gentleman wants the dates and full details in regard to this particular matter, perhaps he will be kind enough to put down a Question. I assure him that a large number of private visits to Mafeking have been paid by leading Africans during the past year, in addition to the official visits to which I particularly referred. I am not aware that it is causing hardship at the present time.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations, in the case of recruitment of the bushmen of Western Bechuanaland carried out within the terms of the Native Labour Proclamation of 1941, how far the terms of the labour contracts, particularly as regards repatriation of the workers to their homes and the payment of allotments from wages to the workers' families, where this is part of the contract, are being enforced.

No recruitment of bushmen for any purpose is at present permitted by licence under the Bechuanaland Protectorate Native Labour Proclamation. The enforcement of the terms of labour contracts, therefore, does not arise.

Does my hon. Friend realise that many farmers in South-West Africa are recruiting these people and then keeping them in slave conditions, not allowing them to return to their families? Is not it a fact that one bushman recently escaped back to the Protectorate from South-West Africa, and a native policeman arrested him and handed him back to his employer in South-West Africa? Does my hon. Friend think that this is satisfactory? Further, has he any intention of going out to the Protectorate in the near future to see things for himself?

I answered a Question last week with regard to certain allegations made about the recruitment in the Protectorate of bushmen for labour purposes. I have made it clear again this week that there is no recruitment of bushmen for any purposes permitted under licence, and we should take the strongest action possible against any infringement of the Native Labour Proclamation. We have established recently a new police post on the border, which we hope may stamp out any abuses which may exist. I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that the position of bushmen in the Protectorate presents a most interesting but difficult administrative and anthropological problem. We hope to be able to undertake an intensification of its study as a result of the initiative of the High Commissioner, with the help of a grant from C.D. and W. From my own point of view, when I go out there, as I hope to do shortly, this is one of the matters I shall be particularly interested in.

The House will be glad to hear the hon. Gentleman's assurances; but Questions are continually put about these matters in the House. While he is out there, will he take the opportunity to make strong representations to the South African Government that, if they in any way condone this, perhaps, illegal recruitment, we shall take a very strong view about it in this country?

I shall do my best to find out the facts for myself when I visit the place.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he will include in the agenda for the Commonwealth Trade Conference next autumn the proposed setting up of a Commonwealth Development Bank.

Commonwealth officials meeting in London in February made provisional recommendations at to what the agenda might cover. These recommendations are now under consideration by Commonwealth Governments, and I am not able to say what items the agenda will eventually contain.

Can my hon. Friend say whether or not he thinks that this is a good idea? I do not ask him to say whether it is possible at this stage to say that it shall be included in the agenda, but, in view of recent events in Canada, is this not a very important matter?

I think that all new thinking upon Commonwealth economic relations is of great value at the present time. This is one subject which has been discussed a number of times recently both in the House and in public, and my hon. Friend can be assured that the Government are fully conscious of the interest of the House in a proposition of this sort.

Does my hon. Friend realise that new thinking, although valuable, is of no value at all unless it makes an impact upon the Government, and that unless a more forthcoming attitude is shown on the question of further finance for Commonwealth development, having new thinking will be of no value at all?

The Government are quite capable of undertaking new thinking themselves. I can assure my hon. Friend that we are well aware of the very sincere views held on these particular matters in all parts of the House.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what action he intends to take in regard to the Orders under the Immunities and Privileges Act of the Federation of Rhodesia, which need to be passed in consultation with Her Majesty's Government before the Act can be implemented.

None, Sir. The making of the Orders necessary to implement the Immunities and Privileges Act, 1956, of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland is a matter for the Government of the Federation, though the United Kingdom Government were asked for, and have given, specialist advice on certain technical aspects of the preparation of the Orders.

Will the Minister confirm that this Act may fall within the special reserved powers of the Secretary of State, in view of the fact that, as far as Southern Rhodesia is concerned, it is clearly discriminatory against the great majority of the idigenous population? Further, can he say whether the representations from India in respect of this Act have been met?

I understand that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the Immunities and Privileges Act, which refers to diplomatic representations within the Federation, and I therefore do not think that his assumption is correct.

Does the Minister's first reply mean that the relatively better position of the African and Indian population in Nyasaland is in danger from possible Orders issued by the majority in Southern Rhodesia?

No, I do not think that this particular legislation is relevant to that at all. This is an Act dealing with the responsibilities of the Federal Government, as I understand it, in relation to the diplomatic problems which it has now assumed as a result of its new status.

asked the Minister of Education if he will now state the number of students who, in 1956–57, took courses in science, engineering and craft subjects, respectively; and if he will give a table showing whether such courses led to university degrees, diplomas, professional qualification, higher national certificates, ordinary national certificates, or City and Guilds certificates.

asked the Minister of Education if he will publish in HANSARD the latest figures showing the proportions of children in grammar and secondary modern schools, respectively, in each county and county borough of England and Wales, who are voluntarily staying at school till their sixteenth birthday.

I regret that information is not available in this precise form.

Would not it be possible for the Minister to obtain this information? Has he not some recent information about the number staying on until 16 over all classes of school, and would not it be possible quite simply to

With permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table giving this information.

I congratulate the Minister on, at last, having the figures. Does not he think that it is desirable to ask for a return from local authorities earlier, because this information is essential if one is to gauge what progress is being made in the new courses for science training generally?

My right hon. Friend will consider that. I know the hon. Gentleman's concern with these matters. He will be glad to know that the table shows a substantial increase in the number of students taking national diplomas and certificates and City and Guilds courses.

There are certain difficulties about it; I will write to the hon. Gentleman and explain them.

asked the Minister of Education what schools have been, or are being, provided at the public expense with flats or other similar accommodation for the purpose of instruction in homecraft and not for occupation; and what is the total cost of providing and equipping such accommodation.

Most post-war secondary schools for girls include a small training "flat" as part of their provision for teaching housecraft. Six hundred pounds would normally cover the building and equipping of a typical "flat".

asked the Minister of Education why Mercers' School, Holborn, is not eligible for direct grant-aid; and what proposals he has for making good this loss of 300 school places.

When the direct-grant list was reopened, my right hon. Friend's predecessor made it clear that he had in mind the admission of only a limited number of schools of a high educational standard. Mercers School did not reach the very high standard set. The boys in the school come from a wide area containing a very large number of schools and there should be no difficulty in placing them.

Can the Minister say whether Any proposals have been submitted by the school which might enable him to look at the matter again, or must the question now be regarded as closed?

My right hon. Friend is not in any way responsible for the closing of this school; it was the governors' decision. As a piece of background information, I can say that only ten schools have been admitted to the direct grant list since it was reopened, and these schools have all been of quite exceptional quality.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps he is taking to satisfy himself that no textile cloth or made-up goods, purporting to be manufactured in Hong Kong, originate in China.

It has been impossible to obtain concrete evidence of any such evasion. Nonetheless, we are reviewing the procedures to satisfy ourselves that goods purporting to have been manufactured in Hong Kong have, in fact, been manufactured there.

While I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that assurance and it will be some comfort at least to Lancashire to know that this matter is being further pursued, may I ask him whether he is aware that it is a source of real anxiety? Will he pursue the matter vigorously, having regard to the fact that it is not only a problem of the moment in Lancashire, but almost certainly will be one of the most serious problems we have to face if and when a Free Trade Area comes into being?

Yes, Sir; I will. In the meantime, if my hon. Friend has any evidence, I shall be glad to have it.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the purpose of the Hong Kong visit of the Permanent Secretary of the Board of Trade.

asked the President of the Board of Trade the reasons for the visit of his Permanent Secretary to Hone Kong; and if, during that visit, consideration may be given to the limitation, on a voluntary basis, of the export of gloves to the United Kingdom.

It is hoped that further discussions will shortly take place between the Lancashire cotton industry and the cotton industries of India and Pakistan with a view to securing a voluntary limitation of their exports of cotton cloth to the United Kingdom. Sir Frank Lee is in Hong Kong to explore the possibility of voluntary arrangements being made for exports of cotton cloth from the Colony. His discussions cannot he extended to other goods. Cotton presents entirely special problems and it is not the intention of the Government to sponsor similar arrangements in respect of other exports from Hong Kong.

While I know that some comfort was derived from the fact that Sir Frank Lee was invited to go to Hong Kong, may I ask whether my right hon. Friend is aware that although in Lancashire it is right to say that there has not been widespread unemployment as the result of the difficulties facing us there, we now face extended short-time working, which for the people concerned is just as disagreeable as unemployment, whatever label the Ministry of Labour may attach to it? Will my right hon. Friend try to take a more positive step in this direction, since it seems logical and certainly desirable that the Government should pursue a line of action which will at least give some hope to the hard-pressed cotton industry?

I think that the negotiations which Sir Frank Lee is having show that the Government understand the situation and are doing their best to arrive at a voluntary agreement with one of Her Majesty's Colonies.

My right hon. Friend will be aware of the difficult and unhappy time that the glove industry has been having over six years as a result of this steadily and rapidly mounting current of imports from Hong Kong, which is made possible by an almost inexhaustible supply of refugee labour. Is he aware how great the disappointment will be that now that he has decided to investigate and explore the possibilities of doing something for the cotton industry, he has not considered it possible to extend that action to cover the glove industry, which is a small craft industry and has been very hard pressed by this problem? I hope that he will look at it again.

I am aware of the difficulties of the glove industry, because it has factories in my own constituency. The facts are that the imports from Hong Kong were less last year than the year before and we have not thought it right to extend this kind of arrangement to made-up goods.

Is the President of the Board of Trade aware that Sir Frank Lee will have all the good wishes of this side of the House, as well as those of his own side, in these discussions and that I am not speaking only for Lancashire Members in saying that? Is he further aware that some entirely informal discussions held in Hong Kong recently by my hon. Friend the Member for Farnworth (Mr. Thornton) and myself, arranged by the Chamber of Commerce there, suggested that there was a hopeful possibility of an agreement that would be fair to this country and would also meet the serious and legitimate case of Hong Kong itself?

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he has said and, like him, I hope that these negotiations will succeed.

On a point of order. In view of the importance of this matter, I must give notice that I shall raise it on the Adjournment.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will urgently review the operation of the strategic controls on the exports of copper tubes and other copper products, in view of the development of under-employment in important units in the industry.

All the strategic controls are coming under review in the meetings proceeding in Paris and our policy in this review is to confine these controls to goods which are still of strategic significance.

While trusting that in these talks the right hon. Gentleman will take account both of Britain's economic position and of the changed strategic position which renders many of these controls utterly obsolete, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that the Question was based on the fact that in my constituency the biggest copper factory in the Commonwealth is now working short time and that the reason for this is its inability to meet clear orders that are waiting for it from Eastern Europe?

We are, in fact, licensing copper wire in considerable quantities, but we must wait a little while to see whether other forms of copper manufactures are kept on the list.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what action he is taking to deal with the monopoly of bakers, who are keeping the price of bread high, and obstructing those who are prepared to manufacture and supply bread at a much cheaper price.

Restrictive trading agreements affecting bread were included in the first direction to the Registrar as to the cases to be taken before the Restrictive Practices Court.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this monopoly is a very vicious one in Liverpool, that at the moment the multiple firms of bakers have refused to supply the smaller shops with the bread which they bake, because the small shops have been selling a 28 oz. loaf at 2d. cheaper than the multiple firms, and that they have refused to serve the small shops and are creating a very difficult situation? Will the President of the Board of Trade consult his right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who has the whole of the documents in his possession, and see what action can be taken immediately to deal with this very difficult situation?

If an agreement exists for withholding bread from certain shops, of course it is registrable. Anyone can bring a complaint and get the agreement registered.

I appreciate the action that is being taken, but in view of the outrageous behaviour at present occurring in Liverpool, is there no immediate step that the right hon. Gentleman can take?

It is one of those matters for which we have provided under the Restrictive Practices Act.

What is the use of saying that agreements of this kind are registrable when there is no guarantee when they will be dealt with? Can the right hon. Gentleman now say when this action is likely to be taken upon the registration of these agreements?

I should have thought the hon. and learned Gentleman knew that lawyers took a long time to prepare cases, but I have no doubt that when they start this series of cases they will go through the court fairly quickly.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the difficulty is caused not by lawyers dealing with the matter, but by the legislation introduced by the right hon. Gentleman's Government, which deliberately introduced a system involving long delay, as was pointed out to him from this side during the passage of the Act?

The hon. and learned Gentleman is quite wrong. If he studied the kind of procedure that is necessary to prepare these cases, he would know that some months must elapse but that, once the courts start, the matter will go through. It is inevitable that, if cases are to be properly prepared, time must be taken.

Has the President of the Board of Trade taken any steps to see whether there are registrable agreements in this case which have not been registered?

Not recently, because the direction to the court a year ago was to take agreements on wholesale and retail prices of bread among the first list.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply and the fact that I hope that between now and the end of the Recess positive action will be taken by the Board of Trade, I will attempt to raise this matter on the Adjournment after the Recess.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware of the growth of the practice of acquiring the shells of public companies for the purpose of evading capital issues control, and for other purposes; and what action he proposes to take in the matter.

I have nothing at present to add to my right hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin) on 4th February,

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I specifically avoided referring to the tax avoidance aspects of this practice, for obvious and seasonal reasons? Will he draw to the notice of his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who should now be in an advanced state of preparation of his Budget, that this is of great importance not only in the tax sense but also in the sense of the avoidance of capital issues control?

My right hon. Friend always pays close attention to anything said by the right hon. Gentleman, particularly when he is as tactful as he is today.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the amount received from television films and material exported under the arrangements made for their showing in other countries during 1957, and the cost of such material sent to this country by these countries during the same year.

I regret that separate records are not kept of receipts from the export of television films and other material. The expenditure authorised in 1957 on the import of such material amounted to about £2¼ million.

Is not the latter figure very heavy? Does not it have an adverse effect on the balance of payments, as most of these films which are shown on television, many of which are of poor quality, come from the United States and must be paid for in dollars?

We could stop the lot.

While exact records of the export earnings from this material are not kept, I understand that on balance it looks as if there is a slight net addition to the balance of payments.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will make it a condition of his future grants to the Arts Council that it makes more generous allocations to the Welsh National Opera Company; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that the work done by this company in reviving opera which has not been performed in the United Kingdom for 50 years or more has been widely acknowledged, and in view of the fact that taxation, which supplies the grants to the Arts Council, is collected from all over the United Kingdom, would not he agree that the funds at the disposal of the Welsh Committee and the funds allocated to the Welsh National Opera Company are pathetically small?

I know that the Welsh National Opera Company enjoys a high reputation, but I think it would be a mistake to depart from the long-standing policy of leaving the question of how the grant should be distributed entirely to the Arts Council. My right hon. Friend has confidence in the way the Council exercises its discretion in the performance of that duty.

While appreciating that, may I ask the Financial Secretary if he will convey to the Arts Council the fact that there is a very deep and widespread feeling in Wales that the Council has not been fair to the Welsh National Opera Company, and would he consider the grants that are made, because, as the hon. and learned Gentleman said, this company has a very high reputation, not only in Wales, but outside Wales as well?

I am sure that the Council will take note of the exchanges that have taken place today.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) whether he will make a statement on the request he has received from the French Government to have a share in Commonwealth markets without giving anything in return before being prepared to co-operate with the proposed European Free Trade Area; and, as French objections are likely to destroy this proposal, what proposals he has prepared for anticipating this contingency; and

As I told the House in the debate on Friday, 28th March, we have received no French proposals. I understand that the Six Treaty of Rome countries are considering certain French suggestions and as a result it is expected that a paper will be available before the next meeting of the Intergovernmental Committee on 2nd May.

What does the right hon. Gentleman mean by saying that he has received no proposals, but he has received suggestions? What is the difference between a suggestion and a proposal? May I ask whether he will ensure that the French are not allowed to destroy this proposal as they destroyed E.D.C. as it was first proposed, and will he ensure, above all things, that the agricultural interests of this country are not sacrificed to the French proposals in the long run?

Any question on the difference between proposals and suggestions should be addressed to one of the Law Officers. The difference I was drawing was between proposals put to the United Kingdom—and there have been no such proposals—and suggestions made by the French Government to their colleagues in the Treaty of Rome, of which, of course. I am unaware.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, when reviewing the incidence of Purchase Tax, he will take into consideration the anomaly that oil-burning heaters are exempted whereas electric domestic heaters are subject to Purchase Tax at 60 per cent. of the wholesale price; and if he will bear in mind that oil requires to be imported while the basic materials for the production of electricity are home products.

My right hon. Friend will bear in mind the facts stated in the Question.

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that the Purchase Tax on all electrical heaters is impeding rural electrification throughout the United Kingdom, particularly in Northern Ireland, where there have never been any power cuts owing to the foresight of the Northern Ireland Government in providing adequate generating capacity? Will he ask his right hon. Friend, as an ex-Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, to bear this point in mind?

My right hon. Friend will take into account the further facts stated by my hon. Friend, but I think that if I commented I would be anticipating my right hon. Friend's Budget statement.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in view of the reduced amount now collected by the 2d. stamp at present required by the law on receipts for accounts over £2, if he will amend the Stamp Act, 1891, in order to remove this requirement completely.

I cannot anticipate my right hon. Friend's Budget statement.

While the hon. and learned Gentleman may not be able to anticipate his right hon. Friend's Budget statement, and in view of the changed value of money since the Act was passed in 1891, will the Financial Secretary to the Treasury say whether, if he cannot dispense with the point altogether, the amount be raised to something more reasonable in comparison with the present-day value of money?

I have no doubt that my right hon. Friend will note and take into account what has been said by my hon. Friend.

Will his right hon. Friend also, between now and the Budget, take into account something to which we drew attention last year—the extraordinary fact that Stamp Duties in this country, including those on Stock Exchange transactions, are not legally enforceable and that payment cannot be enforced, but offenders can be fined only a small sum if they do not pay? Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware of the widespread evasion and avoidance of the payment of Stamp Duties, and will he ask his right hon. Friend to look at that matter as well?

I will draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the points that have been made by the right hon. Gentleman.

Is not it a fact that, as a result of the objects of the Cheques Act being completely misconstrued, firms of otherwise good reputation are deliberaately not carrying out their responsibilities in this matter and are refusing to provide stamped receipts on the payment of accounts? Will the hon. and learned Gentleman make it clear that companies' stamped receipts are legally enforceable and must be provided when an account is paid?

That is an entirely different question.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many representations he has received from operators of public service vehicles in regard to the adverse effect of the present level of oil duties on bus and coach services particularly in the rural areas.

My right hon. Friend and I have received representations on this matter from, or on behalf of, 14 companies operating public service vehicles and from four Associations representing such operators generally. Representations have also been received from a number of local authorities, some of whom operate their own public service vehicles.

In view of the very large number of representations which have been received concerning the heavy burden of the motor fuel tax upon public service vehicle operators, what action does the Chancellor propose to take? Is he aware that there is increasing evidence of a reduction in the services, particularly in the rural areas, and a general deterioration of public services as a result of this heavy tax? Now that the principle of discrimination in regard to the imposition of this tax has been accepted by exempting members of the United States Forces from the petrol tax, cannot the Minister extend this concession to the operators of public service vehicles?

I rather think that that supplementary question was really designed to air the points that the hon. Gentleman had in mind rather than to tempt me to anticipate my right hon. Friend's Budget statement.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why the Bulletin for Industry, for March, 1958, entitled, "Some Myths Exploded," in describing Great Britain's post-war economic achievements made no mention of Commonwealth and Colonial development and did not distinguish between the Commonwealth and other parts of the free world to which the British are of economic importance as bankers, traders, investors, and as allies for defence; whether the Information Division of the Treasury will discuss the importance of the Commonwealth and sterling area to the United Kingdom economy in a further edition of the Bulletin for Industry; and whether he will make a statement.

The scope of the article "Some Myths Exploded", which was already long, did not allow of the inclusion of the Commonwealth and sterling area as a separate topic; but the Bulletin for Industry has in the last five years published 27 articles dealing wholly or in part with Commonwealth matters, and will publish others, including one on the theme my hon. Friend has suggested.

While thanking the hon. and learned Gentleman for that undertaking, may I ask him whether his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has studied the speech made by the Prime Minister yesterday at a meeting of the Empire Industries Association? Is not it our duty and our interest in the matter of survival to give priority to Commonwealth trade? While the Chancellor is busy exploding myths, will he try to explode some of the 19th century myths which seem to pervade the back rooms of the Treasury?

I do not think I can accept the implications in the last part of that supplementary question.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that we intend to take full advantage of the forthcoming Budget debate to explode a lot of other myths which have emanated from the other side of the House? Will he confirm that the reason why the information which was asked for was omitted from this statement was because in the last six years imports from the Commonwealth have seriously fallen while imports from the dollar areas have increased, thus reversing the pre-1951 trend?

It will not have escaped the right hon. Gentleman's notice that exports to the dollar area have also increased.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, in view of the importance of vitamin E in bread to the health of the nation, what experiments have been made for, or on behalf of, his Department to ascertain the effect of steel milling plant on the wheat germ oil; and in what way loss of this oil is made up in the flour for breadmaking.

My right hon. Friend is advised that although vitamin E was discovered more than thirty years ago, its importance in human nutrition has not yet been established.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how much sugar is stored by his Department on disused airfields.

The raw sugar stored by my Department is part of our strategic stocks. It would not be in the public interest to disclose the quantity now stored on disused airfields, but it is only a small and steadily decreasing fraction of our total raw sugar stocks.

While recognising the coyness of the Joint Parliamentary Secretary, may I ask him why in this year of 1958 he stores sugar on disused airfields? Why not store it properly? How much wastage has there been over the last few years?

It is perfectly normal practice to store it in the open. It does not deteriorate to any extent more there than when stored under cover. The amount of wastage is extremely small, certainly less than 1 per cent.

What degree of cooperation is there between the hon. Gentleman's Department and the Board of Trade? Why, when the Board of Trade is getting rid of its strategic stockpiles of metals and other raw materials, is the hon. Gentleman still clinging to stocking sugar on disused airfields? What is the strategic difference between sugar and raw materials from this point of view?

A great deal. I did indicate that stocks are being reduced at the present time.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he is now prepared to institute price control of bread, in view of the action of certain bakers in Liverpool who are refusing to supply shops with their bread, because they are taking a supply of bread from a firm of bakers who can offer the bread at a much cheaper price, details of which have been sent to him.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether, by price control or other means, he will reduce the retail price of bread in areas where action is being taken to avoid such reduction.

My right hon. Friend does not think price control would be appropriate. Restrictive trading agreements affecting bread were included in the first direction to the Registrar as to the cases to be taken before the Restrictive Practices Court.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that the information with which I have supplied his Department indicates that there is a very big bread monopoly in Liverpool affecting the price of bread, and that some very serious action must be taken immediately about this matter, so that people who desire to pay cheaper prices for bread may do so through shops being supplied with the cheaper bread? Will he consult the President of the Board of Trade to see what active steps can be taken immediately to do away with this very vicious monopoly?

I have studied carefully the documents which the hon. Lady was kind enough to send me. As to the restrictive practices aspect, I can add nothing to what my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade has said in this House this morning. As for supplies, I understand from the documents which the hon. Lady sent me that these local suppliers are obtaining supplies of bread at the present time and that there is no difficulty, as far as I am aware, in anybody obtaining what he wishes.

When will the hon. Gentleman do more than study documents? We have repeatedly raised this complaint in the House. When will he do something to stop these undesirable practices which are keeping up the price of bread in this area?

I think we must get this quite straight. This is an entirely new matter which has arisen. In regard to restrictive practices, I have indicated that it is a matter for the President of the Board of Trade, and I cannot go further than what my right hon. Friend said this morning. As to the question of prices generally and the question of price control, there is no evidence that price control would bring down prices. It certainly did not when hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite were in power.

Has the hon. Gentleman read the documents aright? I believe, if I have read them rightly, that they state that three multiple firms in Liverpool, whose names are given, have refused to supply small shops in a working-class area who have been taking bread from a firm which is supplying a 28 oz. loaf cheaper by 2d. a loaf than the multiple firm. Will the hon. Gentleman read the documents again? I am certain he has not read them right.

I am sorry, but, as I understand it, shops are obtaining supplies of the cheaper bread without any difficulty, and so their customers are able to obtain it. Of course, I will look at this again. I would deplore any action taken to prevent shops from receiving bread. However, as I understand the documents, there is no difficulty in their obtaining the bread they wish.

What practical result has there been from this direction to the Registrar?

I have indicated already that that is a matter for the President of the Board of Trade, as the right hon. Gentleman knows.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what conclusions have been reached in the discussions between the Government of Kenya and the Nairobi City Council with regard to the building of African houses.

One thousand four hundred houses are being built under Kenya Government supervision on behalf of the Nairobi City Council. The first 200 of these will be ready for occupation by mid June, and the scheme should be complete by May, 1959. The City Council is preparing plans for a further 600 to 700 houses and propose to place the contract themselves.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this Answer is quite unsatisfactory? Is not it a fact that discussions have been going on ever since 1955 about the building of 5,000 houses for Africans in Nairobi and that this has been described by Mr. Atkinson, the housing adviser in the Colonial Office, as being the worst housing problem in East Africa? Will he say when he expects the 5,000 houses are to be built, and will he place in the Library a copy of Mr. Atkinson's report on the housing situation of Africans in Kenya?

The hon. Lady has asked a lot of supplementary questions, but I appreciate that she feels very strongly about this. First, I will consider placing a copy of the report in the Library. Secondly, the target of 5,000 still stands, as far as I am aware, but it may take some time. Thirdly, I think we ought to recognise that this problem, although it is a very big one, must be basically a problem for the Council, but the fact that the Government have taken power in a novel way, as I think the hon. Lady knows, in helping with this housing drive shows the Government's appreciation of the housing needs of Africans in Nairobi.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies at what date the issue of passports to British-protected persons in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland was transferred to the Federal Government; and why.

Responsibility for the issue of passports to British-protected persons in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland remains with the Territorial Governments who decide whether a passport should be issued and w hat endorsement it should bear. The Federal Government carry out only the physical issue of such passports, on an agency basis. This has been the practice in Nyasaland since 1st April, 1957, when the Federal Government took over administration of immigration, and it was convenient for the issue of passports to remain with the same office. A similar arrangement was made in Northern Rhodesia with effect from 1st March, 1958.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his reply will be a great reassurance, as a rather misleading impression was created by the statement that passports had been federalised? Will he give an assurance that his right hon. Friend will not surrender his power to control the issue of passports for British-protected persons and therefore the right of hon. Members in this House to raise any question of the issue of passports affecting those people?

I am most grateful to the hon. Lady for the first part of her supplementary question. I think the second part raises a much wider issue, and I would ask her to put it on the Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies for what crimes whipping can be ordered in the territorial courts for which he is responsible within the Central African Federation.

As the reply involves considerable detail I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that on 2nd January in the magistrates' court at Lusaka an African boy was sentenced to 22 strokes of the cane for theft? Is not that a violation of the penal code, which permits a maximum of only 12 strokes of the cane for any child under 16? In view of the fact that Southern Rhodesia has just introduced whipping as a punishment for the theft of maize, w ill the hon. Gentleman see that this barbarous form of punishment is not either extended or abused in the Protectorate?

I think the hon. Lady has a Question on that subject another day, and I do not think it right that I should anticipate the Answer my right hon. Friend may wish to give to that Question. As to corporal punishment as such, we have abolished it in this country, and we should like to abolish it in the Colonial Territories, but attention has to be given to local circumstances, which are not in all cases, as the hon. Lady will appreciate, anything like similar to those in this country.

asked the Prime Minister if he can now state when the promised report on the growth of strontium 90 in children's bones will be published.

I hope by about the middle of this year.

But is not it a fact that the latest Harwell report is now nearly 18 months out of date, and that this showed a marked increase, which must have continued since? Can the Prime Minister comment on the recent statement by Dr. Synge, the Nobel Prize winner, that children bottle-fed on cow's milk in the West of England, Scotland and Wales are absorbing 30 to 40 times as much strontium as the children in the eastern parts of the country?

I am afraid that, without notice, I cannot comment on the second part of that supplementary question, which I found it rather difficult to hear. With regard to the first part, these reports will be published as soon as they are ready.

asked the Prime Minister, since dollar commodity prices have increased in the last year by 16·4 points from 382·1 to 398·5 and sterling prices have fallen by 67·5 points from 478 to 410·5, if he will discuss with President Eisenhower during his forthcoming visit to the United States of America methods of giving sterling commodity prices the same stability as dollar prices, so as to avoid the spread of Communism in sterling commodity areas; and if he will make a statement.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring respectively to Moody's United States index and to Reuter's United Kingdom index of commodity prices. Both are in fact now lower than a year ago, though Reuter's has had the bigger fall. But both include commodities of interest to both sterling and dollar countries, and individual commodities have had very varying fortunes. These indices do not give a true comparison of the prices received by sterling and dollar producers.

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether it is a fact that certain sterling commodity prices have fallen considerably? Does he agree that in those areas of the uncommitted third part of the world, where it is so vital to keep them on our side of the Iron Curtain, it would help immensely if we could get greater stability in these prices? Will he take the opportunity when in America to discuss the matter with the President?

Of course, the stability of prices is important, but I want to correct what I am sure is a misunderstanding on the part of my hon. Friend. For instance, Reuter's index is based on C.I.F. prices, and since these include the very big fall in freight rates, it makes it difficult to compare that with an index which is based upon a different system. As regards the prices of different commodities, as I have said, their fortunes have been rather varying. There have been large falls of about 15 per cent. or more in wool, copper, lead, zinc, cheese and rubber. There have been moderate falls of under 10 per cent. in tin, tea, coffee and butter. There has been practically no change in cotton, jute, meat and wheat. There has been a marked rise in cocoa. Therefore, it is difficult to generalise.

Yes, Sir, but whatever the statistics, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the great importance of this fall in commodity prices to the prospects for world economic affairs? Also, will he be undeterred by the rather disappointing reaction there has been by the United States to international commodity agreements over the past six or seven years, and will he recognise that there may be a hope for a more constructive attitude at the present time?

I am never put oil by disappointment at any time.

asked the Prime Minister when he expects to be able to make a further statement on the proposed Summit Conference; and what progress is being made through diplomatic or other channels.

asked the Prime Minister what obstacles are being placed in his way in proceeding with the proposed summit talks by either the United States of America or the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Neither the United Kingdom nor the United States Governments have placed obstacles in the way of summit talks, but both have laid emphasis on the need for preparatory work. I hope the Soviet Government will agree to this, especially in view of the clear and practical proposals which the British, United States and French Governments made to them on 31st March.

Will the Prime Minister clarify one point? Will the three Western Governments insist on the holding of a Foreign Ministers' conference, even though the proposed diplomatic discussions lead to an agreed agenda?

Of course, if everything could be settled at the diplomatic level, that would be a good thing.

Has my right hon. Friend noticed the initiative of the newly-elected Canadian Government in this matter, in the suggestion that there should be Commonwealth initiative to break down the rigidity of the American approach? Can my right hon. Friend go a little further in making a comment on that, and can he also comment on the possibility of making a statement on the intentions of the British Government in relation to testing our own hydrogen weapon, how long those tests will take, and whether there is any possibility at the end of them of getting an agreement to suspend tests?

I think all those points were covered by the statement I made last Tuesday. On the first point I am very pleased, and I think the House was gratified, at the clear, practical, short aide-méemoire deposited by the three Governments with the Soviet Government. I am sure the right thing to do is to wait—and I wait with hope and confidence—for the reply of the Soviet Government.

Will the Prime Minister clear up one other point? He spoke just now of the possibility of everything being cleared up at the diplomatic level. Does he mean by this that he would be satisfied if agreement could be reached on the agenda at diplomatic level, and that if that were the case there would be no need for the Foreign Secretaries to meet?

No, Sir. I hope there will not be any misunderstanding. The document sets out a system which I hope will be accepted. I think personally that the meeting of Foreign Secretaries, which I think the Russian Government themselves have now accepted, would be a very valuable part of the general machinery for reaching a successful result at the Summit Conference. Therefore, I personally think that this system is the best one. We must see how it works out and keep in mind the object, and the object is to have a conference at the summit which will produce some successful results.

asked the Prime Minister in view of the unsatisfactory state of affairs revealed by the Comptroller and Auditor General in his Report on the Army Appropriation Accounts, 1956–57, wherein it is stated that, amongst other items, 1,250,000 boots and 1,000,000 half-soles were wrongly ordered and are now surplus to requirements, if he will re-organise the present inter-departmental committee set up to prevent waste of public money in order to secure greater efficiency.

The case to which the hon. Member refers has been reported to the House by the Comptroller and Auditor General. The right course is to await the Report of the Public Accounts Committee before any further statement is made.

But why does the Prime Minister make such a spineless excuse for a shocking waste of public money? Is not it a fact that his predecessor, Sir Anthony Eden, because of a series of surplus goods frauds, set up an inter-Departmental committee to prevent this kind of thing happening? Is not it clear that, before this colossal order was placed, the boots were not likely to be required, and that for too long now they have cluttered up the Branston Depôt at Burton-on-Trent? Will the right hon. Gentleman say when the people guilty of wilful waste will be sacked and what is to happen to the boots?

The hon. Gentleman has made a long statement, as is often his custom, much of which is not based on fact. It would be contrary to the tradition of this House and utterly improper for me to do anything now except to wait until the proper Committee of this House, which is the Public Accounts Committee, has made a Report on the basis of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. That is the ordinary procedure of the House, and I intend to follow it.

Owing to the very unsatisfactory Question—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—I withdraw the regret about the Question and substitute: owing to the unsatisfactory Answer, I give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Prime Minister upon what scientific evidence he based the statement which he made to this House on 1st April, 1957, to the effect that a deliberate attempt to hold a nuclear test explosion in such a way as to avoid detection would almost certainly be successful.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the recent announcement of the Soviet Union of their intention to stop further nuclear tests, he is satisfied that all nuclear test explosions can now be effectively monitored; and if he will make a statement.

Although I cannot of course go into any detail, I can say that we now have specific evidence confirming my previous statement that a deliberate attempt to hold a nuclear test explosion so as to avoid detection would almost certainly be successful.

But a fortnight ago did not President Eisenhower say almost exactly the opposite? Is the President correct, and if so, does not this destroy the argument against accepting the Russian proposal to stop the tests, namely, that they could not be detected?

No, Sir. I have in mind what the President has said, and I am afraid I cannot take it that he agrees with the hon. Gentleman's submission. The facts are as I said, and it has always been recognised that any permanent suspension of tests, or any permanent way of dealing with this, would require an inspection system.

Will the Prime Minister clarify that? He did not mean that they could not under any circumstances be detected, but that it would be necessary to have special controls in order to detect them? Is that right?

Yes, Sir, that is what I mean—of course, under the present situation. Indeed, if I were taking a purely scientific point, I think it would be theoretically possible even with a very comprehensive system of inspection; but, for practical purposes, what I mean is that it would be possible to do this without detection under the present system of ordinary listening, and so forth, which each country keeps.

Would the Prime Minister clarify what he has just said? Is he telling the House that the only way it would be possible to detect tests, perhaps secret tests, would be if an international control organisation were set up, with listening and recording posts in all the countries in which tests are likely to take place?

I think, roughly speaking, that is the deduction. I was asked a scientific question, and I did my best to answer it. These questions are difficult to answer. I try to answer them from a practical as well as from a theoretical point of view. I am only saying that we have evidence—and it is certainly clear—that it would be possible. It is now possible to organise a test and deliberately attempt to avoid detection by any of the normal means now open to the various countries.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will instruct Ministers, when making official speeches in the country, always to make clear the fact that they are speaking in their Ministerial capacity.

No such instructions are necessary. Official speeches are by definition made in a Ministerial capacity.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, after leading a deputation to the Minister of Health, described the Minister of Health as "a junior colleague" and as having "ducked the issue"? Does not this indicate a difference of opinion between Ministers, and will the Prime Minister say which opinion he supports?

I think the hon. Gentleman is making a great deal of this incident. As I understand it, the Chancellor of the Duchy was carrying out his duty as the Member for his constituency, and perhaps he showed the proper fervour that such Members do. However, I am sure that this is of very minor importance. I am informed that this matter was one in which the Chancellor of the Duchy was acting in what he believed to be ordinary constituency work at a private meeting. Therefore, if there is any difficulty it is one of a very minor character.

A little local difficulty?

Are we to take it from the Prime Minister that he is now establishing the doctrine that any Minister has a right to attack another Minister on a constituency matter if the first Minister does not get his own way with the Minister of the Department concerned?

No, Sir. There was nothing of the character of an attack, and the right hon. Gentleman knows that.

Es my right hon. Friend aware that the more Ministers follow his example yesterday in making speeches drawing attention to the economic opportunities in the Commonwealth the more many of us will be pleased?

Can the Prime Minister really be serious when he says that it was not an attack upon the Minister of Health? Very strong language was used. Would not the Prime Minister agree that it is a very strange lapse coming from a Minister who is supposed to be in charge of public relations?

The right hon. Gentleman is a much better judge than I am of how to try to keep a party together.