asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what steps he takes to co-ordinate the release to the Press of important statements of Government policy by Ministers.

I would refer the hon. Member to the very full reply I gave on 3rd February last, on this and other matters, to the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) and other hon. Members.

Could the Minister explain why The Times is so inconsiderate in reporting the speeches of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that recently he delivered a speech which I found in the Scottish edition of The Times which had given it three and a half inches, and that when I came to London I found that the whole speech had been omitted in favour of a news item headed, "Live Shell Found on Beachy Head"?

I am not responsible for the editorial decisions of The Times newspaper. It may be that that newspaper thought that readers in Scotland were more in need of the education I conveyed in the speech.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, in his promised consideration of the problems of small farmers, he will pay special attention to the conditions of small farms in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

I shall, of course, pay the greatest possible attention to the position of farmers in Wales in working out my proposals for helping small farmers.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I say that I have no doubt that he is aware that Wales is peculiarly a country of farms of this kind?

That is entirely correct.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when we may anticipate a statement from the Government on the small farms?

I cannot give the hon. Gentleman an answer on that point, but, as he knows, it is our intention that the new scheme shall be introduced as part of the determinations of the 1959 Annual Review.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many senior officers of his Department were born in Wales; what steps he proposes to increase the recruitment of persons for senior grades with particular knowledge of Wales; and if he will make a statement.

I regret that the information sought in the first part of the Question is not readily available; but I can say that my Welsh Secretary and the heads of the major technical services in Wales are all Welsh. As for the second part of the Question, the selection of candidates for established posts in my Department, as in other Government Departments, is in the hands of the Civil Service Commission. I can assure my hon. Friend, however, that a close knowledge of Welsh conditions is given due weight when senior officers in my Department are appointed to posts in the Principality.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give us any idea how many senior officers operating in England were born in Wales?

If the right hon. Gentleman would really like to have the answer to that question, I will certainly send it to him.

In view of the Answer given to this Question, I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what progress has been made during the last year in the devolution of the work of his Department in Wales; what progress is contemplated during the next twelve months; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir; there has been substantial devolution. On 31st March, 1957, the Welsh Secretary—who as the House will know is my chief official in Wales—was responsible for the work of some 60 staff. He is now responsible for some 870 staff, and will shortly assume responsibility for a further 80 staff concerned mainly with milk and pests. The remaining staff in Wales are mainly specialists who are responsible to their senior officers in Wales. They in turn report to our technical advisers in London, but the Welsh Secretary is responsible for their general co-ordination.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that is a most satisfactory answer?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what will be the effect on the British fishing industry if the Icelandic fishing limits are increased to 12 miles; and what steps he is taking to protect the industry against the effects of any such unilateral action.

The effects would be very serious: a heavy loss of catch and economic dislocation of the distant-water fleet. As to the second part of the Question, I cannot add to the Declaration made by Her Majesty's Government on 4th June.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the industry is grateful to Her Majesty's Government for the firm action they have taken? Is he also aware that, however much our trawlers can be protected when fishing on their lawful occasions, the dispute must eventually come to the conference table? What progress is being made in the discussions with the allied Governments of N.A.T.O. in an effort to persuade the Icelandic Government to come to a more reasonable decision and to discuss the matter round the conference table?

As Her Majesty's Government indicated in the statement made on 4th June, I entirely agree that this should be a matter of negotiation. I assure my hon. and gallant Friend that I and the other members of Her Majesty's Government are doing all we can to see that negotiations are brought into effect.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proportion of fish landed in Great Britain is caught in that part of the ocean which Iceland and the Faroes have given notice that they intend to include in their territorial waters, and which is not now included.

The fish taken from the waters around Iceland and the Faroes accounted last year for over 30 per cent. of the total British catch of white fish from all waters. The best estimates available suggest that something like 40 to 50 per cent. of the British catch around Iceland and the Faroes, or about 13 per cent. of the total British catch from all waters, is taken within the proposed 12-mile limit in these two areas.

Will my right hon. Friend make it quite clear that we in this country have no intention of giving up that proportion of our catch unless there is some agreement with the countries concerned, and certainly not by unilateral action on their part?

I think my hon. and learned Friend will agree that we made our position very clear on 4th June.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what arrangements he makes to have an adequate selection of Scottish Ordnance Survey maps available for purchase by tourists and others at bookshops in England and Wales, including bookshops of Her Majesty's Stationery Office.

The stocking of Ordnance Survey maps must be a matter for the booksellers, and no special arrangements are made in England and Wales for holding maps of Scotland, either in the shops of Her Majesty's Stationery Office or others. Copies of Ordnance Survey maps not in stock can be ordered through most booksellers or obtained from the Department's principal agents in London.

Is the Minister aware that he has the responsibility at least for Stationery Office bookshops? Is he aware that my information is that these Scottish maps are not readily available in sufficient variety in England? In view of the importance of tourism to Scotland, will not he start a sales drive for these maps?

The Stationery Office is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but I will certainly see that the hon. Member's point is brought to my right hon. Friend's attention.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is satisfied that the National Agricultural Advisory Service staff employed on soil analysis is adequate to meet the demand from farmers for this important service; and if he will make a statement.

The N.A.A.S. is reasonably well staffed to provide the soil analyses which it requires in order to advise farmers, but I think it would be difficult for the service to furnish routine soil analyses on request.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in some cases farmers are having to wait a considerable time after their applications are made before their soil is tested? Is not this rather unfortunate, when it is most important and desirable that farmers should use this very valuable service?

I have sympathy with my hon. Friend, but I think he will realise that the supply of soil chemists and analysts to do this skilled job is limited, and that for all the essential work the National Agricultural Advisory Service is doing what it is asked to do.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many prosecutions there were in each of the years 1957, 1956 and 1955 in respect of the quality of contents of ice cream on sale to the public.

I regret that the information is not available.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the most recent estimate of the proportion of ice cream on sale to the public which contains no real cream.

Ice cream manufacturers are not required to make returns of output. I regret, therefore, that information on which to base a reliable estimate is not available.

In view of the fact that so many foreign countries find it quite easy to insist that ice cream on sale to the public is not made of vegetable fats, will the right hon. Gentleman consider amending the regulations so that the consumers and dairy farmers of this country may be similarly protected and ice cream may, in fact, be made out of milk cream?

I appreciate the hon. Member's point, but I must point out that during the last seventeen years the public has been buying something which it knows as ice cream, and I do not think that many of them have been under the impression that this in fact contained dairy products—and I think that to change the name arbitrarily would not be very sensible.

Surely the right hon. Gentleman must be aware that the average consumer of ice cream is of a very juvenile age and does not, therefore, make inquiries whether the so-called cream is of vegetable origin or dairy produce? Does not he think it is now time for us to ascertain the exact figures in relation to ice cream?

There are two separate parts to that question. I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the consumption of ice cream is confined merely to the young; the middle-aged and elderly have a considerable liking for it. I know that he and I, and many other hon. Members, share the same wish to increase the use of dairy produce in ice cream, but the sensible and right way to do this is to push the sale of dairy ice cream, and considerable progress is being made in that direction.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that very large quantities of this article—whatever its name may be—are sold and that it is high time, in these days of plenty, that we should not be forced back to the situation where substitutes can be put into what should be the real article?

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, in view of the recent further increases in the price of potatoes, what steps he will take to ensure additional supplies.

Special arrangements were made during the difficult period in May and early June to allow potatoes to be imported from Continental countries after the dates which would normally be acceptable for plant health reasons. But supplies of new potatoes from the home crop and the Channel Islands are now increasing rapidly and prices have already fallen significantly. There should soon be ample supplies in the shops at reasonable prices.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Sunderland Chamber of Trade—which is a very well-informed body—tells me that it is felt that unnecessarily large profits are being made somewhere in the chain of distribution? Does not he realise that there is a considerable amount of complaint from all quarters? In view of those complaints, will be institute an inquiry into these allegations in order to find out how well founded they are?

The hon. Member knows quite well that the chief trouble was a general shortage of potatoes. That has not been helped by the dock strike. It may be that during this difficult period prices have gone up, but now that good supplies are coming in I hope to see prices return to a far more reasonable level.

Is the Minister aware that the price of potatoes went up to 1s. 4d. a lb.—or a penny an ounce—which is an all-time record? My authority for this figure is that well-known character, Cassandra, of the Daily Mirror.

I know that there was a great shortage and that the price was high.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement about meat supplies in the London area arising out of current industrial disputes.

There is a shortage of imported meat as a result of the current industrial disputes, but most butchers have so far been able to obtain enough meat to satisfy consumer requirements, although choice may be restricted and prices higher than usual.

Is it true that, notwithstanding the partial breakdown of distribution in London, considerable supplies of meat have been coming in from all round, through many channels, and is this attributable to the fact that distribution of meat is in the hands of private enterprise rather than under central control?

I think that probably has a great deal to do with it.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many agricultural holdings in Cornwall are of less than 20 acres; how many are of between 20 to 40 acres, 40 to 100 acres, 100 to 150 acres, 150 to 200 acres; and how many of 200 acres and over.

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

If, as I expect, the reply will show that there is a very large number of very small farms in Cornwall, will my right hon. Friend bear that fact in mind in defining the lower limit of what is a small farm in connection with any scheme to help the small farmer?

I thought that my hon. Friend knew the answer to the question. There are, of course, large numbers of small farms in Cornwall. I cannot give any commitment at this stage on the acreage that I shall contemplate when introducing a scheme.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what quantities, and what articles, of perishable foodstuffs have become unfit for human consumption in the Port of London by reason of the unofficial dock strike; and what is the approximate value of such foodstuffs.

I am informed that up to this morning the Medical Officer of Health for the Port and City of London had declared 14 tons of potatoes and one ton of grapefruit unfit for human consumption. The approximate value is £150.

In view of the alarmist figures which have been published of thousands of tons of foodstuffs having gone bad, will my right hon. Friend take steps to see that these figures are given due publicity?

I think that the Answer to the Question will considerably help in that direction.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what were the total amounts of butter imported from each country in 1957 expressed as percentages of the total amount imported.

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Whilst not anticipating the Ministry's figures in any way, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he will make quite certain that the proportions of New Zealand butter and of Commonwealth butter are maintained at the proper figures in future?

I would prefer that my hon. and learned Friend should first digest the figures, and if he cares to discuss them afterwards with me I shall be only too delighted to do so.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what progress has been made in research into methods of preventing losses amongst lambs from nematodirus disease.

A large amount of research bearing directly and indirectly on the problem of nematodirus is proceeding all over the world. Fundamental work on the life history and epidemiology of the parasite, which is necessary before any effective system of control can be introduced, is in progress at several agricultural research institutes in this country and work on finding new anthelminthic substance is also being carried on by the pharmaceutical industry. It is as yet too early to assess the effect of all this work in reducing losses from nematodirus.

May I, in the first place, apologise to my right hon. Friend for asking him a Question which necessitated his mentioning so many unpronouncable names in reply? May I call his attention to the fact that this nematodirus disease is spreading very fast in the North of England? Would it not be most valuable, therefore, if the highest priority were given to research so that effective methods of prevention may be found before the disease becomes a menace on a national scale?

My hon. Friend is quite right. This is an important disease among hill sheep. I shall certainly see that the scale of research being devoted to it is adequate.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, as representing the Lord President of the Council, on how many occasions the Farm Buildings Research Committee has met; and what results the Committee has achieved.

The Farm Buildings Research Committee, set up by the Agricultural Research Council in June, 1957, has met on three occasions. As explained to the hon. Member on 15th April, a special unit has been established by the Agricultural Research Council to carry out surveys on existing farm buildings and the immediate requirements of farmers. In addition, reports have been called for from experts in such varied subjects as animal physiology, pest infestation and agricultural machinery. In the collection of this information, the council is working in close co-operation with my Department's Agricultural Land Service. It will of necessity be some time before the results of all these inquiries are available to enable the Committee to formulate the research requirements and to recommend the steps that should be taken to implement them.

I appreciate that this is effective comprehensive work. Nevertheless, does not the Minister agree that this is both very important and urgently required work? Will he see that the Committee expedites its consideration and issues its recommendations and advice as soon as possible?

I quite agree with the hon. Member that it is extremely important work. In my reply, I have tried to show him that a great deal of preliminary work will be necessary before sound recommendations can be put forward.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will publish in HANSARD a table of figures showing either the weekly or monthly number of assistance grants made in respect of rents, for each of the months commencing one month before the commencement of the Rent Act. 1957, until the latest convenient stated date; and what was the approximate average weekly or monthly grant in each case.

I assume that the hon. Member is asking for figures for other dates corresponding to those given to him for April, 1957 and 1958, in reply to his Question on 19th May. I will therefore circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the National Assistance Board's estimate of the numbers for each month from June, 1957. As regards the second part of the Question, I can only repeat that it is not possible to say how much of assistance granted is attributable to rent, as the grant paid, after taking all the needs and resources of the applicant into account, is often less than the rent.

Is it not deplorable that large sums of money are being paid out every week through the National Assistance Board, in effect to subsidise the landlords, and yet the Minister has no account of how much is being paid per week? Surely the right hon. Gentleman ought to know. Will he take steps to ascertain how much money per week, per month or per year is being paid out to landlords in rent subsidies?

As the hon. Member is perfectly well aware, that is not an accurate statement of the position. Indeed, much of the rents and rates included in the figures which I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT are rents and rates paid to local authorities. As to the figures, the hon. Member will be comforted by the fact that the number of payments which contain a rent element is actually 37,000 less in the most recent figure in the table compared with the earliest figure.

If the number of grants is less, can the right hon. Gentleman also give an assurance that the total amount in cash is less? Is it more? If the right hon. Gentleman knows that fewer grants are being made, can he assure us that the actual amount of cash is smaller?

The hon. Member has failed to understand how the grants are assessed. On the one hand, the needs of the applicant are calculated, including rent and other matters arising under the scale. On the other hand, resources are set against them and a balance is struck in that way. If the hon. Member understood how this is done, he would realise how quite impracticable is his question.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he will state the total financial grant made in National Assistance towards rents by recipients of National Assistance since the introduction of the Rent Act, 1957.

For the reason just explained to the hon. Member in reply to his previous Question, it is not possible to state how much of the expenditure on assistance grants can be attributed to rent in isolation. Where there are resources taken into account, any attempt to apportion the amount of assistance granted between rent and other requirements would be impracticable and meaningless.

If I put a suitable Question on the Order Paper, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it will be possible for him to ascertain the figures in respect of old-age pensioners where grants are made for this specific purpose?

If the hon. Member understood the system, he would see that his attempt—I am sure wellmeaning—to ensure simplicity would, in fact, involve further complication.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many Pakistanis, other Commonwealth citizens and foreigners, respectively, are receiving National Assistance allowances in Accrington and district.

The National Assistance Board does not maintain separate records of the kind requested, but my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour and National Service informs me that a special examination of the unemployment register at Accrington shows that 19 Pakistanis are receiving National Assistance through the Accrington Employment Exchange.

Is the hon. Lady aware of the growing concern about the inflow of people from Pakistan and other parts of the Commonwealth who have no work ready for them in this country? Is any inquiry being made into whether there is some person or group of persons organising the sending of these Commonwealth people into this country? If this flow continues it may smash our National Health and National Assistance schemes.

The hon. Member will be aware that that is not a question for my Ministry. Perhaps he would like to put a question to one of my right hon. Friends. I think it should be addressed to the Home Office.

asked the Paymaster-General what he estimates will be the oil imports into the United Kingdom in the years 1960, 1965 and 1970.

It is impossible to make reliable forecasts for so many years ahead but, as my hon. Friend will know, net imports of petroleum into the United Kingdom have roughly doubled in the last decade and it is reasonable to expect further expansion in the future.

Has my hon. Friend satisfied himself that adequate steps are being taken to provide the harbour and dock facilities which will be necessary if we are to be able to use the fast and large tanker of the future? Will he also take all the proper steps that he can take to ensure that British ships are in a position to make use of these facilities when they are provided?

I think all these matters are not matters for the Ministry of Power but for the Ministry of Transport.

Can my hon. Friend assure us that there will not be a percentage increase in dependence for oil supplies on any one group in any one area at the same time?

All crystal-gazing is dangerous, and to be as explicit as that ten years ahead does not commend itself to me.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will use the powers conferred by Section 5 of the Iron and Steel Act, 1953, to keep in use production facilities which are being closed down on Tees-side and in other iron and steel producing areas of the country.

No, Sir.

Under what circumstances would Section 5 of the Iron and Steel Act be used? Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in my constituency of Cleveland alone, quite apart from the rest of Tees-side, between 1,000 and 2,000 steel workers are likely to lose their jobs at present?

On the first part of that supplementary question, which is hypothetical, I should not like to express any opinion at all. As to the second part, in relation to the situation on Teesside, a decision would depend largely on whether we expect the present demand position at home and abroad to be permanent or to be temporary. As my original Answer indicates, Her Majesty's Government at present do not consider that any action of this kind would be desirable.

Are Her Majesty's Government prepared to take action if it should turn out that the depression lasts longer than has been indicated? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that on Tees-side large quantities of structural steel are made? Are the Government prepared to put the Severn Bridge project into rapid execution if there are increasing signs of depression?

A question on that specific point ought to be put down.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will make a statement on the present recession in the iron and steel industry; and what action the Government propose to take.

The demand for certain steel products has declined. This means that the industry is now temporarily working under capacity in certain sections. No Government action would be justified at this stage to deal with this fluctuation in trade.

Would the hon. Gentleman say on what evidence he or the Government base their view that this is purely a passing phase?

Partly on this: it may interest the hon. Gentleman to know that the most recent figures, which are admittedly only up to the end of March, show that home consumption this year is actually rather higher than last year. What has happened is a very great fall in exports. Therefore, that should drive home to all concerned the necessity for competition. We do not envisage a situation in which the British iron and steel industry would not be fully competitive, because we believe it to be one of our most progressive industries.

If this industry had not been denationalised, I take it that the Conservative Party would blame the present state of affairs upon nationalisation?

I do not quite know. What matters is what is happening now. That is the main thing. Both the nationalised section of this industry, happily only small, and the denationalised section suffer exactly alike. Nationalisation or denationalisation does not alter the fact that we have to sell at a profit.

asked the Paymaster-General what research he is promoting in regard to the high pressure gasification of coal.

The first commercial scale high pressure coal gasifier is about to be built by the Scottish Gas Board at Westfield in Fife, and the North Western Gas Board is constructing a commercial plant at Partington in Lancashire which includes another type of high pressure gasifier intended to work initially on oil and later on coal. The Ministry hopes to complete within the next few months a new experimental high pressure gasifier which has been commissioned for research into other aspects of this problem, and parallel work on gasification is being carried on by the British Coal Utilisation Research Association on the Ministry's behalf.

Is the Minister satisfied that sufficient is being done in this direction? Does he appreciate the tremendous scope for the gas industry if research can be speeded up?

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is to the obvious advantage of the British coal industry to have as much flexibility as possible. In the last few days I have seen one of these very interesting experiments. It is impossible to say which of them will prove the winner, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that a great deal is being done.

asked the Paymaster-General what progress has been made with the drafting of the Regulations under the Thermal Insulation (Industrial Buildings) Act, 1957; and by what date he anticipates it will be possible to lay them before Parliament.

Consultations are continuing on the preliminary proposals circulated by my Department to representative organisations last February. My noble Friend hopes to be able to lay the Regulations before Parliament before the Summer Recess.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the requirement of the Act is that these Regulations should become effective from 1st January, 1959, or

"such earlier date as the Minister may decide."

Can he say whether it will be possible to make them effective before 1st January, 1959?

Not at this stage. We must give everybody an opportunity to make observations and we must then consider them. At the moment, it does not appear likely that the proposals will require very substantial modification.

asked the Paymaster-General how many overhead power lines he has authorised to be erected running northwards and eastwards from Berkeley; and of what height the pylons will be.

No overhead lines have yet been authorised. The height of the towers, if authorised, would be 89 feet.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that reply will be received with a certain amount of surprise, because officials in that part of the world have been very busy contacting landowners about overhead lines? Is he aware that in a very short period the country will be covered with a spider web of power lines unless some better plan is put up? Is there no possibility of distributing electricity without covering the whole country with these hideous pylons?

It is technically possible, of course, to put the lines underground, but the extra cost is quite fantastic over long distances. Therefore, the Ministry makes every effort to see whether it can combine economical distribution with the minimum damage to amenity. It is impossible to please everybody, but we do our best.

asked the Paymaster-General whether, with a view to preventing any increase in the price of household coal, he will allow reasonable imports of Polish coal.

No, Sir. The Governments' decision to end the statutory control of house coal supplies and prices is based on the industry's expectation that sufficient supplies of coal will be available without the need of imports.

Is my hon. Friend aware that Polish coal suitable for household use can be imported and off-loaded into merchants' yards at £1 per ton cheaper than its British equivalent? In view of the fact that we are now ending coal rationing, could it not be possible to allow people freedom to trade both in exports and imports? I am sure it would help British shipping, and the householder and industry as well.

It would be the desire of all concerned to give our industry a chance to fulfil its expectations to provide the coal without our committing ourselves to any kind of decision about what might need to be done in the—I hope unlikely—event of the industry not being able to do what it hopes to do. We must bear in mind that a large part of this Polish coal is almost certainly dumped and that that raises problems of its own.

If Polish coal can be imported at £1 per ton cheaper than English-produced coal, how is it that we have been losing £10 million, £20 million or £30 million upon imported coal for so long?

I do not think that question arises. The figures arise from a relationship between export and import prices, which is a thing of the past.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of us on both sides of the House have been struggling for years since the end of the war to rid ourselves of dependence upon foreign coal? Will he therefore not resist every pressure to bring coal from Poland, America or anywhere else, but use our own coal to maximum advantage?

I have already said that if we can provide our own coal at the proper price and quality it is obvious common sense so to do. I do not think that I need to go beyond that.

asked the Paymaster-General if, in view of the proposed ending of statutory control of the retail price of coal, he will withdraw the Ministerial letter of 5th February, 1954, and give the National Coal Board the same freedom in relation to price policy as exists for the other nationalised fuel industries.

No, Sir. Although the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries, in their recent report, questioned the informality of the present arrangements, they approved their purpose. My noble Friend is considering the Committee's Report and will express his views in due course.

Surely that statement is inaccurate and the Select Committee recommended that the present position should be ended as being unfair to the National Coal Board?

Nothing that I have said differs from that. The point at issue is that the Select Committee made a recommendation that one type of control, namely, the gentleman's agreement, should be replaced by direction. That is a recommendation of the Select Committee which, with other recommendations, my noble Friend is now carefully considering.

asked the Minister of Supply the approximate number of those engaged in all branches of the aircraft industry; and his estimate of the number that will remain at the end of the reorganisation of the industry.

About 250,000. The number in the future will depend upon the volume of orders obtained. On present orders and inquiries it would be about 150,000 in five years' time.

Is the Minister aware that this industry recruited in the post-war years a large body of highly skilled men at all levels? May we take it that one of the right hon. Gentleman's main duties is to see that the scaling down of the industry is scientifically planned so that the skilled ability of these men is not allowed to be wasted but is diverted to some parallel occupation?

I have recommended to the industry that, in so far as it spread itself into activities other than aircraft, so the problems arising from the contraction of orders for aircraft would be mitigated. Diversification would be a good policy to pursue.

asked the Minister of Supply to what extent his Department is now encouraging and financing a British earth space satellite programme.

No financial support is at present being given by my Department to an earth satellite programme. There are, however, constant consultations with my noble Friend the Lord President of the Council and with the Royal Society about the scientific value to be derived from such a programme.

While appreciating the part that cost must play in the matter, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman two questions? First, in view of the development of the intercontinental ballistic missile and the expense involved in that, is not the cost factor added to that relatively small to launch a satellite into space? Secondly, has any research been conducted into the development of conquering gravity without the present high speeds and thrust which are required, particularly the evolution of an antigravity technique which will allow us to escape the present gravitational pull of the earth?

I am not at all sure that I understand the second part of the hon. Member's question, but on the question of cost, clearly that has to be balanced against scientific value. As matters stand, the countries which have launched satellites are pledged under the rules of the International Geophysical Year to disclose information and data to other countries. That being so, it would be premature to decide whether or not we have a ballistic missile to launch into the satellite programme.

Would it not be better to employ someone to launch the Government into space?

Even though we are not ourselves considering the projection of a missile into space, we as a country would have some interest in all these other missiles which are being sent up by other countries. We have an interest in getting liaison and co-operation with the other countries concerned. Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it will be his Department which will be concerned with co-operation after the determination of the I.G.Y. arrangements?

If I may indulge in a correction, I did not say that we were not considering launching a satellite programme. I said that this was a matter to be kept under constant review, the scientific value always to be weighed against the cost. My Department is mainly a military Department. The scientific advice on what should be done must necessarily come from the Royal Society and the Lord President of the Council. My Department is the researcher, the developer and, if I may say so, the fabricator.

asked the Minister of Supply what new orders have been placed, or are about to be placed, for transport aircraft to enable the Royal Air Force Transport Command to undertake trooping operations.

No new orders for large aircraft for Transport Command have been placed since the contract for Britannias was increased to twenty at the end of last year. As the House knows, however, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Air is currently examining operational requirements.

May we take it that when the Minister of Defence said the other day that in future Transport Command would be carrying out trooping operations, he was talking a little prematurely and there is no indication of any immediate orders for further transport aircraft?

I am afraid I am not here to answer for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence.

asked the Minister of Supply what practical steps have now been taken to maintain the firm of Short Brothers and Harland as a fully-balanced aircraft design and production unit.

The various contracts which Short Brothers and Harland now hold for the design and production of aircraft and guided weapons do employ them as a balanced unit. For the rest, I have nothing to add to what I said in reply to the right hon. Gentleman, the Member for Clackmannan and East Stirling (Mr. Woodburn) on 2nd December, 1957.

The Minister will probably recognise these words as having been used by the Parliamentary Secretary in a recent debate when he said that all practical steps would be taken to maintain this firm as a fully balanced unit. Can the Minister say what those words meant and what practical steps have been taken?

The practical steps clearly must consist of contracts placed. I would ask the hon. Member to appreciate that any Government—he would be in the same position as I hold—is the victim of a conflict of authorities here; one is the owner and the other is the customer. What one would like to do as owner one might not like to do as customer in the light of past practice and delivery times quoted.

asked the Minister of Health if he is yet in a position to fix a date on which the Western Area of the South-West Metropolitan Region will become a separate Wessex Regional Hospital Board.

As I said in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, West (Mr. J. Eden) on 13th June, I intend that the date shall be 1st April next, and I am taking the necessary steps to bring the new region and regional hospital board into being on that date.

Is the Minister aware that on both sides of the House hon. Members from the Western Area are very glad to know that he decided to do last Friday what we have been asking him to do for a long time? His decision to make the area into a separate board will give tremendous satisfaction to all who have worked in the Western Area to build up an efficient National Health Service. They will be very grateful to him.

I am very grateful in my turn for what the hon. Member has been good enough to say.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that those on this side of the House are particularly grateful for his help in this matter, which has caused universal pleasure to all those concerned in the area?

Before he made this decision, did my right hon. and learned Friend consult the South-Western Board and also opinion in the neighbouring areas, particularly in South Somerset and the northern part of Dorset?

Yes, Sir, this decision was taken after examination over a period, as indicated by the hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Dr. King). In the light of all the relevant circumstances, locally and nationally, I think we have come to the right decision.

asked the Minister of Health what would be the approximate annual extra cost of making the Western Area of the South-West Metropolitan Hospital Board a separate board.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Mr. Smithers) on 10th March.

Is the Minister aware that there is some dispute between his advisers and the members of the Western Area as to the amount of actual expense involved, and it is the belief of the Western Area that the gain made to the South-Western Metropolitan Hospital Board may offset the extra expense involved in setting up the new administration?

Yes, the estimate I gave in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester is an estimate of the ultimate additional cost based on the cost of comparable regions of similar size, such as the Oxford Region and the East Anglian Region. I very much hope that the estimate will prove to be excessive, and I shall certainly expect the new board to keep its costs down to a minimum.

asked the Minister of Health how many private beds are now available in London hospitals and nursing homes, as compared with the number before 1939 and before the creation of the National Health Service.

At 31st December, 1957, 2,255 beds were available under Sections 4 and 5 of the National Health Service Act, 1946, in the Metropolitan Police District. I understand that there were 2,288 beds classed as private beds in the same hospitals shortly before the inception of the National Health Service, but as there was then no accepted definition of the term "private", the figures are not strictly comparable. I regret that information for 1939 and for institutions outside the National Health Service is not available.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend tell the House what steps are being taken to see that these beds are being fully used? Is it not a fact that they are not being used as much as they should be?

No, Sir. I do not think, as a generalisation, that that is right. As my hon. Friend knows, there is a proviso to Section 5 (1) of the Act which makes these beds available for cases requiring urgent medical attention. I think that between those two uses they are kept pretty well occupied.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman assure us that full use is being made of these beds, because the last figures suggested that perhaps almost as much as one-quarter or one-third of them were not in use?

There is not 100 per cent. occupancy. There never would be, as the hon. Member, with his experience, will appreciate. As he knows, these beds are used for their primary purpose and can also be used for the purpose to which I have just referred. Taking those two things together, there is a reasonable use of these beds, but I will certainly look at the matter, in answer to the hon. Member's request and that of my hon. Friend, to see whether anything can or should be done to promote the occupancy rate.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made in the case of Mr. James Mills, a patient for the past 12 years at Rampton Mental Hospital; and what possibility there is of his transfer in the near future to an ordinary mental hospital nearer his home.

This patient is not yet ready for transfer but his case will be kept under review.

asked the Minister of Health what plans have been accepted for alterations to the Children's Hospital at Southampton; and when it is anticipated that the present buildings will be replaced.

I am informed that work will begin almost immediately to improve the wards and ancillary accommodation at this hospital at an estimated cost of £20,000. Proposals for the future development of Southampton General Hospital include the provision of a children's unit to replace the Children's Hospital, but I cannot say when it will be possible for this development to take place.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend be good enough to publicise the circumstances which led him to reach the decision about patching the Children's Hospital in view of the fact that there is considerable disquiet among my constituents in Southampton about the wisdom of spending money on this old property?

I do not know about publishing it, but in summary I can tell my hon. Friend that the present condition of the Children's Hospital is undoubtedly unsatisfactory, and in view of the uncertainty as to when funds can be made available for the major development of Southampton General Hospital, it seemed necessary to carry out these improvements.

Is the Minister aware that all Southampton is agreed that the Children's Hospital is an old-fashioned and unsuitable building, that extensions and improvements are simply second-best solutions, but that the local board must be guided by the capital resources at its disposal? We should be grateful if Southampton could have some idea when the major projects for the Children's Hospital are likely to take place.

A preliminary estimate of the cost of the proposed development at Southampton General Hospital, which, of course, includes much more than the children's unit, is said to be about £750,000 to £1 million. It is a big matter, and the regional hospital board has not yet put proposals before me.

asked the Minister of Health (1) the categories of persons for whom registration is at present accepted for vaccination against poliomyelitis; and when he anticipates he will be able to extend the priority to other categories; and

(2) when he anticipates there will be enough vaccine against poliomyelitis for all persons at present registered to have the full three vaccinations.

The classes at present eligible for vaccination are children over six months old born in or after 1943, expectant mothers, general practitioners, ambulance staff, hospital staff whose work brings them into contact with acute poliomyelitis, and the families of the last three groups. By 30th April, the latest date for which detailed information is available, over 3 million persons in Great Britain had been vaccinated with two injections, just over 2½ million were awaiting vaccination and a further 500,000 were awaiting their second injection. On that date the local health authorities held 1 million doses of vaccine and they have since received over 5 million more.

This is more than sufficient to complete the vaccination with two doses of all persons registered by 30th April if they are willing to accept the type of vaccine available.

Registration is a continuing process, and further supplies of vaccine are being distributed from time to time to keep pace with new registrations.

I cannot at present make any statement in regard to extending the offer of vaccination to other priority groups or about the giving of third doses.

Is the Minister aware that that Answer will cause very considerable anxiety in the country? Is he aware that some of the categories outside those he has mentioned feel very aggrieved at the idea that they will not be vaccinated against poliomyelitis, particularly people in the sanitary service? I sent to the Minister details of a case in which a man died as a consequence of not being vaccinated.

Is the Minister also aware that at present eight children in Halifax, the highest number ever registered there, are suffering from this disease in consequence of not having been treated? When is he going to get sufficient vaccine to enable the three doses, which are essential, to be given and for the appropriate categories to be dealt with?

I am bound to say that I am surprised at the questions asked by the hon. Member, although little that he says in fact surprises me. In answer to his Question, I made a statement pointing out that sufficient vaccine is available to deal with the programme we have announced, and then he asked if I was aware that my Answer would cause anxiety. On the contrary, I should have thought that it would cause gratification to all right-thinking people.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell us the number of these who have refused vaccination on the ground that they cannot have the type they prefer?

The response to the offer of Salk vaccine varies in accordance with the areas, but, in answer to the right hon. Lady's general question, I would say that, on the whole, parents are accepting the advice of the Medical Research Council and are having their children vaccinated with the vaccine available in their area rather than let them go unvaccinated over the summer season.

asked the Minister of Health if, in view of the increase in the numbers of poliomyelitis cases in London during 1957, he will give an assurance that a sufficient supply of vaccine will be available to give all the people eligible for inoculation two injections.

The London County Council already has sufficient vaccine to complete the inoculation with two doses of all persons registered on 30th April. Further supplies are being distributed from time to time to keep pace with new registrations.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman keep in close touch with the medical authorities in the London area, because there is a fear that they will not have enough, particularly as some people are dubious about allowing the Salk vaccine to be used?

I am glad to say that we are in very close and continuous touch with the medical authorities of the London County Council. I think that they are quite happy with the position as it is. They will no doubt bring to the notice of parents the advice of the Medical Research Council about the use of the Salk vaccine.

Have there been any unfavourable results from the use of the Salk vaccine?

Not that I know of.

asked the Minister of Health if he will undertake a pilot inquiry to ascertain what percentage of smokers starts smoking regularly during each year of age between 12 and 20.

My right hon. and learned Friend does not think there is a need for such a specialised inquiry since there is already a good deal of information published or being collected about the ages at which persons start to smoke regularly.

Does not the Minister feel that as his right hon. Friend passed on to the local authorities the distribution of information about the possible relationship between smoking and cancer of the lung and other diseases, they should at least be given information as to what class of people they must try to influence most?

Yes, Sir. Various small-scale inquiries have been made and most of them have been published. They show that the large majority of smokers have begun to smoke by the age of 20. Although estimates vary, a significant proportion have begun to smoke before the age of 16.

asked the Minister of Health if he will institute a pilot inquiry as to the physiological and sociological effects of giving up smoking by those who have smoked not less than 20 cigarettes a day for at least 20 years.

If the hon. Member would care to write to my right hon. and learned Friend elaborating his suggestions, he will gladly bring them to the notice of bodies which might be prepared to consider the value of such an inquiry.

Does not the Minister agree that people who have smoked for many years before giving up this habit, as they are sometimes urged to do for the sake of their health, should know what is involved in this? Is not that an important question with which everybody ought to be made familiar?

Yes, Sir, but of course the Ministry is not equipped to undertake an inquiry of this sort. There are other bodies which might do so if the inquiry were to be pursued. I have in mind the Medical Research Council or the British Empire Cancer Campaign.

Is not the hon. Member aware that this is a matter for the Minister of Health? In view of the very serious information we have had about cancer of the lung, could he tell the House whether any action has been taken in schools with the view to bringing this matter to the notice of boys under 20?

The whole object of our propaganda in this matter is to discourage people from acquiring the habit rather than to cure them when, unhappily, they already have it