asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (1) if he will make a detailed explanation of the figures for North Staffordshire shown in the Digest of Pneumoconiosis Statistics 1956, table 9, page 11, and tables 10, 11 and 12, with particular reference to the relatively large numbers of reassessment boardings and their results and of disablement assessments of 10 per cent. or less;

(2) if he is satisfied with the administration of the Industrial Injuries Act in North Staffordshire, with reference to pneumoconiosis, and, in particular, with the classifications and the percentage assessments made; and if he will make a statement.

A full explanation of these complex statistics is hardly possible within the permissible length of an oral Answer; but if the hon. Member will tell me the points about which he is concerned, I will write to him about them. The answer to the first part of his second Question is "Yes, Sir."

Whilst thanking the Minister for his sympathetic Answer, may I ask whether he has made a personal analysis of the serious figures contained in the excellent Digest of Pneumoconiosis Statistics, and if so, does he agree that it reveals some startling figures, particularly as regards their effect in North Staffordshire? In view of the situation in North Staffordshire and the concern of the miners there, will the Minister agree to consider having a special investigation?

I have looked at these figures, but the hon. Gentleman will be aware, of course, that as the Digest itself shows, they fluctuate very much from area to area for reasons which I think are quite easy to understand, such as the nature of the coal dug, and, to some extent, the differing awareness of risk, of which there is a good deal among those concerned. There are explanations which I shall be happy to give the hon. Gentleman of the extent to which the figures about which he is concerned diverge from those in other areas. I do not think that the figures are startling. I think that they are all explicable, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will allow me to explain them.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that the high percentage in an area of an extensive coalfield like that in North Staffordshire as compared with other parts of the country is such that concern should be felt? Can the Minister perhaps suggest why it should be higher in that area, or is he prepared to give special consideration to the matter to find out whether there is some special reason for it?

If the hon. Lady is concerned about the relatively high figure for reassessment boardings, the reason for it is that owing to the shortage of accommodation for this purpose in 1953 and 1954 a much larger number of assessments were made for a longer period than was usual. The result was that they have been falling in for reassessment in substantial numbers. We have, I am glad to say, now remedied the shortage of accommodation. That is the explanation.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what steps are taken by the National Assistance Board to recover increases of rent paid to the landlord of a house, occupied by a tenant who is receiving National Assistance in respect of rent, when that landlord, after the expiry of six months, has failed to fulfil a statutory undertaking given by him to put the house into good repair.

The National Assistance Board informs me that it expects tenants receiving National Assistance in respect of their rent to exercise their rights under the Rent Act, 1957, and where a tenant in so doing withholds rent, his assistance allowance is adjusted accordingly. The Board's officers discuss these problems with the recipients of National Assistance where they arise.

Surely it sounds rather extraordinary to say that one expects tenants receiving National Assistance to do this. Does not the Minister know that many of these tenants are mortally frightened of their landlords and are afraid to seek to secure their rights under the Act? Does not the National Assistance Board make some special effort to get in touch with these tenants to make sure that the landlords are not defrauding the Revenue by continuing to extort a wrongful rent?

Under the procedure to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred, it is very much to the interest of the tenant, if the repairs specified in the notice are not being carried out, to ensure that they are carried out, otherwise he lives in accommodation which is less sound and less good than otherwise it would be. As to the second part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, it is, of course, the practice of the Board's officers to discuss the problem when it arises with the recipient of National Assistance. It is certainly not their practice to cut off assistance in advance of such discussion or such action being taken, but if the tenant appears unreasonably to refuse to exercise his rights, then I think it would be the duty and the practice of the Board to adjust his assistance accordingly.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the officials of the Board cannot visit every one of these tenants every week and that it cannot always be aware of what has happened? Has he taken note of the letter in the Manchester Guardian of 25th June from Mr. Roberts, a public health inspector, who says: This deduction to which the tenant is entitled is in many cases not being made either through ignorance of the Act or apathy, since the tenant will not himself benefit financially.

I can only say that the writer of the letter seems to have overlooked the fact that the tenant will benefit by having his accommodation put in order. As to the rest of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I have made it clear that the Board expects and generally finds that the recipients of National Assistance behave sensibly and responsibly as other people do. I should not like to accept the suggestion that there is irresponsibility on the part of recipients of National Assistance.

I did not say "irresponsibility"; I said "apathy". Can the right hon. Gentleman inform the House that the Board has sent appropriate instructions to its officers throughout the country drawing their attention to the possibility of this abuse?

If the right hon. Gentleman wished special instructions to be sent on every point of this kind, a great many instructions would go out. I am satisfied that the Board's officers are carrying out their duty sensibly and humanely.

Could not the Board's Advisory Committees with its special knowledge of the circumstances in the areas be asked to give advice and keep in contact with the Board?

I will consider any suggestion from the right hon. Gentleman on that subject, though I must reserve my position on whether on consideration it appears that the suggestion would in fact be useful.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what proposals for new legislation he intends to introduce for the provision of old age by a National Superannuation Scheme; and if he will publish these proposals in a White Paper.

I have no statement to make on this subject.

In view of the wide public interest in national superannuation schemes, and in view of the Press publicity last week, will the right hon. Gentleman be in a position to make a statement shortly?

When and if I am in a position to make a statement I will make it, but the hon. Gentleman really must not allow himself to be misled by everything that appears either in the newspapers or in any other direction.

Does that mean that there is some doubt about the rumour that the Government contemplate introducing legislation for the purpose of remodelling our whole superannuation and pension scheme? Is there some doubt about it?

I am sure that if the right hon. Gentleman studies my clear and succinct original Answer any doubts he may have on any subject will be reassured.

While the right hon. Gentleman is considering whether to make a statement on this matter, will he provide the House of Commons and the country with a White Paper explaining his calculations on which in his opinion such a scheme would have to be based? Is he aware that, although he has criticised the procedure put forward by the Labour Party, he has never had the courage to bring forward his own repudiations of those figures in a White Paper?

The right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that I am always very happy to discuss the miscalculations of the Labour Party's scheme. Frankly, I do not know whether they rank for a White Paper. As far as information on this subject is concerned, the right hon. Gentleman will no doubt have taken the opportunity to study the Government Actuary's Report on private pension schemes which was made available, I think, about the middle of last month.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Government Actuary does not report on the very matters referred to in The Times and by the Phillips Committee as deserving of a thorough report, with plenty of figures and details? We have not had this.

Nevertheless, I think the right hon. Gentleman might find it profitable to study the Government Actuary's Report.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many of the 9,574 wives of war pensioners, who were widowed during 1957, received from his Department information concerning their pension rights; and if he is satisfied that only 1,690 of these widows had any entitlement.

There are longstanding arrangements for enabling widows of war pensioners to get not only information about their pension rights but help if needed in claiming them. I am satisfied that these arrangements are working efficiently, and have no reason to suppose that widows entitled to war widows pensions are being denied them.

The Minister will notice that I refer to war pensioners, not just ex-soldiers. The fact that they were receiving pensions is prima facie evidence that their widows have some entitlement. Does not the Minister feel that this figure of 1,690 out of 9,574 is a very low figure of widows receiving such pensions?

I really do not share the hon. Gentleman's view that receipt of a war pension necessarily raises a prima facie case that death is due to the pensioned disability. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the fact that most of the men in this figure are First World War men, of some age, some of them with disabilities at the lower percentage ratings. Each case is gone into very sympathetically to see if there is a connection between the disability and the death; but in the absence of that connection, and in cases where death arises, as it must to so many people in the ordinary course of the normal accidents and incidents of life, it is really impossible to relate the war pension claim to the death which has taken place in the same way as that of many other members of the civilian population.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will cause an inquiry to be made into the economic position of the 7,857 wives of war pensioners who were widowed during 1957 and are not receiving any pension from his Department.

No, Sir. I do not think a special inquiry of this sort is necessary.

The Minister must realise that the figures he gave a few weeks ago are very alarming. Only a very small proportion of these widows are receiving pensions, and yet as the widows of ex-Servicemen, they ought to receive very sympathetic consideration. What is the economic position of those widows? Surely the Ministry of Pensions, if it has no legal obligation, has a moral liability to see that they do not suffer in poverty?

From the way the hon. Gentleman has put his Question I think he has somewhat misapprehended the position. The figures I gave him the other day related to widows of war pensioners not receiving a war widow's pension. He has framed his Question to speak of pension received from my Department. Many widows not eligible for war widow's pension are entitled to and receive National Insurance pension. My welfare officers get in touch with the widow of any war pensioner and I have no real reason to believe, in particular from the point of view which the hon. Gentleman has expressed, that there is any need for any special inquiry of this sort.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recollect that about two years ago, when we were debating in Committee upstairs a Bill dealing with widows, I suggested that there might be a Government inquiry into widows generally, including war pensioners' widows, and that he said then that he would consider the suggestion? Has he done so?

That is a very much wider question than the one on the Order Paper, and if the right hon. Gentleman wishes to have a considered reply, I think he might put it down.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance the nature of the reply he has sent to the letter from the Salford Director of Civic Welfare regarding part-time vacancies for eight elderly men which could not be filled after being offered to nearly 300 Salford pensioners who, though eager for work, would not volunteer for a job which would have earned more than£2 10s. a week and thus have reduced their pensions.

A reply has been sent to this gentleman explaining the operation of the earnings rule in relation to retirement pensions, and seeking further information about the particular case he had in mind. I think he is probably under some misunderstanding since my information is that the employment concerned could have been accepted without effect on receipt of a retirement pension.

But would not acceptance of this job have resulted in some reduction in their pensions to which the men feel they are justly entitled? Does not the Minister appreciate the advantage of a part-time job as a halfway house to retirement, and that this is particularly what the present earnings limit is discouraging?

So far as my information goes, the work offered was work for three hours a day for five days a week at half-a-crown an hour, which works out at total earnings of 12s. 6d. below the present earnings limit. Therefore, if it means anything it would seem to suggest that the present earnings limit was fixed at about the right place.

asked the Paymaster-General if he has now considered the report made to him by Deloitte, Plender and Griffiths into the affairs of the contracting section of the London Electricity Board; and when the said report will be placed in the Library of the House.

No, Sir. Since the inquiry started, the Southampton police have found it necessary to investigate certain transactions in this connection. I cannot, therefore, say when the report will be made available to Parliament.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I take it that, irrespective of the inquiries now proceeding, the report will be made available to hon. Members at the earliest possible moment?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Paymaster-General what will be the effect on the cost and building progress of the atomic energy programme of the recent decision to modify the programme so as to produce plutonium of weapons grade; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Paymaster-General (1) what modifications are being made in the nuclear power programme because of the less favourable estimates now current in relation to capital costs, operational conditions, and plutonium credits;

(2) if he will make a statement on the decision to use the civil nuclear power stations now being constructed by the Central Electricity Generating Board for the production of military plutonium.

asked the Paymaster-General what will be the initial capital cost of the modifications required to the affected atomic power stations for the production of plutonium; and what is the estimated additional operating cost.

The capital cost of the modifications about which my right hon. Friend informed the hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason) on 24th June is not yet known precisely but is unlikely to exceed 1 per cent. of the cost of the stations concerned, and since this will be borne by the Government, it will not affect the cost of the civil nuclear programme. The necessary alterations in the designs of the stations can be made without affecting building progress.

The additional operating cost that would be incurred by the electricity authorities, if the facilities were used, would be very small and would also be borne by the Government.

The nuclear programme is kept under constant review in the light of all relevant factors but has not been revised since it was rephased last year as part of the general revision of capital investment.

I take it from the hon. Gentleman's reply that modifications of a capital nature are to be paid for by the Government, and the extra operating cost. Could the hon. Gentleman, therefore, tell us who will pay the increased capital cost of the fuel charges?

As I understand the matter, I do not think that that arises. The question at issue is how long these charges remain under irradiation in the reactors. It is simply a question whether one leaves them there for a longer time or a shorter time, in view of the different isotopes of plutonium which arise at different stages. Therefore, I think that the righthon. Gentleman's supplementary question arises out of a misunderstanding.

May I say that it does not arise from a misunderstanding at all? Is not it the case that the number of initial charges required by the Electricity Authority would probably be in the ratio of 5 to 3, or even 4 to 1, and therefore there will be substantial initial capital costs? Who will pay these increased capital costs? The hon. Gentleman said that whether one gets plutonium of weapon-grade or not depends upon how long the original charges are left in the reactor. I understand that the ratio is probably 4 to 1. Therefore, there must be at least five charges to the one which the Electricity Authority would be required to pay for, as it takes fifteen months to extract the plutonium from the uranium rods.

I understood the right hon. Gentleman to refer to initial capital cost. That is not affected. There will be additional cost, owing to the fact that the uranium rods move through the reactor more frequently, and that extra cost will be met as a defence charge by the Government.

If I put down a Question will the hon. Gentleman be able to tell us the exact cost?

I cannot promise until I see the Question. I will certainly consider it.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that this mixing of the military and civil aspects of nuclear energy is likely to make it very difficult for us to form a proper estimate of true operating costs and therefore may have an adverse effect on the expected British trade in export markets of nuclear power stations?

That is a difficult question to answer offhand. One obvious reply is, of course, that at least two of the generating power stations will not be modified, so facts and figures will be obtainable from them. In any case, if we start from the assumption that we require this insurance, this is a very much cheaper way of doing it than any other way.

Am I right in assuming that there are three costs under discussion—the initial capital costs, the operating costs, and the costs which will involve security? The ones which we are particularly interested in, in view of the fact that the hon. Gentleman has assured us that the initial capital and security costs will be borne by the Government, are the additional operating costs in view of the fact that the uranium rods will have to be inserted far more often than previously under the peaceful programme?

If the hon. Gentleman will look at my original reply, he will see that I specifically dealt with that. I will repeat what I said: The additional operating cost that would be incurred by the electricity authorities, if the facilities were used"— and I stress the word "if"—this is an insurance and it does not follow necessarily that they will ever be used— would be very small and would also be borne by the Government.

asked the Paymaster-General if he is aware that Purchase Tax reliefs in respect of domestic refrigerators have not been passed on to the public in full by electricity boards; and if he will give a general direction to the Midlands Electricity Board that Purchase Tax reductions must be passed on in full on all equipment supplied by area boards.

The prices which they charge for appliances are a matter for the commercial discretion of the boards and a general direction is therefore inappropriate.

Is the Minister aware that my constituent signed an agreement for the purchase of a refrigerator, manufactured by an American company, at a certain price which I can give to the Minister? Three days after he signed the agreement, an additional charge was imposed, without any reference to him at all. In this matter, the electricity board is acting as agent for the manufacturers and is, therefore, being made a party to what, I am afraid, I can only describe as rather a fraud on the public. Will the Minister look into this matter?

I cannot accept what the Gentleman says. So far as his suggestion is concerned, it would appear that that would be a matter for the Board of Trade and not for the Ministry.

In view of the answers given by the Minister, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will make a statement on the information about pneumoconiosis contained in the Digest of Statistics, 1956; what action is being taken to reduce the numbers affected and the suffering to a minimum; what is the explanation of the relatively high figures for North Staffordshire; and what special action is being taken in the area.

Four thousand, eight hundred and fifty-three new cases of pneumoconiosis were reported among coal miners in 1956. Though this figure reflects the increased readiness of the men to present themselves for examination, it represents a slight improvement over the figures for 1955 and I am glad to say that in 1957 the number of new cases fell steeply to 3,756.

The figures for North Staffordshire are higher than the general national average because, in the past, dust conditions were bad in the pits in that area.

The National Coal Board continues to make vigorous use of all possible means for eliminating dust from the pits, and the National Joint Pneumoconiosis Committee is satisfied, as a result of a recent survey, that medical treatment facilities throughout the country are satisfactory. A special chest clinic and a hospital unit for pneumoconiosis cases were opened in the North Staffordshire area in 1956.

May I thank the hon. Gentleman for that part of his reply which confirmed my view against the reply that we have just had from the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance? While we appreciate most of his reply, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the miners are becoming increasingly concerned about the amount of dust which arises from modern machine-mining? Is he also aware that the general secretary of the miners' union in the area is also of the opinion that it is the deeper mines that contribute to this? In view of that fact, will the hon. Gentleman ask his right hon. Friend to consider having an investigation made in the area?

I do not think that the situation is quite so serious as the hon. Member suggests. He must remember that this dreadful disease is one of those which takes 10 years and even 20 years to become diagnosable. Therefore, one cannot take today's figures as indicating present risks but rather risks of the past. The dust suppression methods now being used in this coalfield are very substantial, and we should hope that as time goes on and the old cases come forward for diagnosis the figure will tend to fall. At any rate, all that can be done is being done.

Arising from the last part of the Minister's answer, may I ask whether it is not possible that this rather alarming increase demonstrates that diagnosis in the past has not been all that accurate? In view of this, is not it desirable to give some form of instruction to the authorities that old cases which have been rejected should be reconsidered?

I should not like to reply to that without consideration, but I repeat that we should not give the impression that there is an alarming increase. In fact, the most recent figures for the country as a whole show a very satisfactory decrease. We are not content with that, but we do not want to be over-alarmist.

asked the Paymaster-General how many acres of land in the vicinity of Biddulph, North Staffordshire, are already developed for opencast mining; and how many tons of coal to date have been won from these sites.

Ninety-two acres and 43,000 tons in the Biddulph urban district.

Before hacking away at the surface in these areas, have the authorities considered the possibility of winning coal, not so much by deep mining in the area, but by footrails or level, as they are called in North Staffordshire? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are 600,000 tons of coal in the North Staffordshire coal field which could be won by this method, before we start attacking the beauty of the area by the opencast method?

I do not think that it is appropriate for me to enter into very technical discussions of that sort. These are considerations which the Coal Board has to take into account before it puts forward proposals to the Minister, and in every individual case these are balanced in the national interest.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will give an assurance that the Biddulph local authority will be given a full and comprehensive report on any proposed opencast mining in its area.

Yes, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that the local authority feels that it does not have the consultation which it deserves with the officials, the Ministry or the Coal Board? Has a comprehensive report now been presented on the possible development in the Knypersley Pool area to the Leek Rural District Council or to the Biddulph Urban District Council?

The next Question deals with Knypersley Pool, which is not in the area to which the hon. Member refers.

asked the Paymaster-General what reports he has had from the National Coal Board on the proposed opencast mining project in the Knypersley Pool area, Biddulph, North Staffordshire; whether he is aware that public opinion is overwhelmingly against the destruction of this beauty spot; and if he will make a statement.

The National Coal Board is now prospecting for opencast coal near Knypersley Pool. It will require my noble Friend's approval before it can work any coal which it finds, and any objections to its working proposals will be heard at a public local inquiry.

I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. May we take it that every possible effort will be made by the Coal Board and the Minister to see that all interested parties and local authorities will receive prior information before there is any development in this beauty spot?

The proposals, if any, will come under the new provisions of the Opencast Coal Bill which has just been passed through this House. The hon. Member and the House will recall that a number of very explicit undertakings were given in the course of debates on that Bill.

asked the Paymaster-General if he will give a general direction to the National Coal Board that all civil defence plans involving expenditure on works in deep mines to prepare them for use in case of a hydrogen bomb attack must be submitted to his Department for approval prior to action being taken.

No, Sir.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of the plans recently revealed in North Staffordshire for the use of deep mines for civil defence purposes? Are these plans part of national plans for the use of deep mines for civil defence? Why is it that the Home Office, as the civil defence authority for the country, knows nothing about them, and who pays?

It is the Coal Board's responsibility, as it is that of other employers, to endeavour to secure the safety of its staff. As a very substantial proportion of the Coal Board's employees at any given time are underground, I should have thought that it would be common ground among all of us that it is the responsibility of the Coal Board to take special action to ensure their safety as far as that can be done.

asked the Paymaster-General what report he has had from the National Coal Board on further proposals for opencast mining in the borough and rural district of Newcastle-under-Lyme; and if he will withhold his sanction from such projects until the Opencast Coal Bill is brought into operation.

While prospecting is going on no proposals for opencast coal working in the borough and rural district of Newcastle-under-Lyme are before my noble Friend.

If proposals are made, would the Parliamentary Secretary be willing to respond favourably to the suggestion in the latter part of the Question and withhold any sanction until the provision regarding preservation of amenities under the new Bill comes into operation?

I cannot without notice give a categorical reply, but, broadly speaking, it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to ensure, so far as possible, that new workings should come under the new Bill. If the hon. Gentleman will put down a specific Question, I may be able to give him a categorical reply in respect of these particular workings.

asked the Paymaster-General how many acres of land in the borough and rural district of Newcastle-under-Lyme are already developed for opencast mining; and how many tons of coal have been won from these sites.

Three hundred and fifty acres and 600,000 tons.

asked the Paymaster-General what considerations have led to the decision to close the Welsh Office of his department, in contravention of the policy of devolution of the administration of Government Departments in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

No such decision has been taken.

Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that no such decision is contemplated? Does he realise that rumours about this have been circulating in Wales? Indeed, there have been some reports in the Press which appear to give this information.

I am not quite sure to what reports my hon. Friend refers. I notice that the Select Committee excepted Scotland only; but certainly it is not the view of Her Majesty's Government that Scotland should have any preference over Wales.

asked the Paymaster-General what progress has been made by the Committee set up to examine certain aspects of co-operation between the gas and electricity industries; and whether it is inviting evidence from members of the public.

I understand the Committee has already held four meetings and has received a considerable volume of evidence. It is at present considering meter reading and billing, service centres and showrooms, advertising and co-operation in regard to the Public Utilities Street Works Act, 1950, and would welcome comments from any body or person that may be interested.

Is my hon. Friend aware that members of the public are awaiting the findings of this Committee with considerable interest?

Yes, Sir; and perhaps the findings will be more to their liking if those who are competent to assist the Committee with evidence would give it.

asked the Minister of Supply what progress has been made in the Rotodyne aircraft experiments; and what are the prospects for its utilisation for inter-city travel in this country.

Progress has been encouraging. The first prototype has been flying for eight months. It recently achieved successfully the transition from vertical to direct forward flight and it has already flown at forward speeds of up to 165 miles an hour. Since the aircraft has been designed to meet a requirement for a 40–50 seater inter-city helicopter issued by British European Airways and is unique in its class, its prospects for inter-city use in this country and elsewhere are promising.

I thank the Minister for that information. Is he aware of the deep concern which has arisen from authoritative reports that there is a likelihood that this aircraft, with its tremendous possibilities, may be sold to American interests because of the difficulty of the makers to raise enough money in this country, and will he state what the Government are doing to ensure that it remains in this country?

I find it rather difficult to understand that there should be any concern on this subject about a possible sale to American interests. The position is that I have invited two companies, the air frame company and the aero engine company, to submit to me their proposals for their financial contributions to complete the development of the aircraft. On receipt of the information about their contributions, Her Majesty's Government will make up their mind about their contribution, but it is quite premature to speak of the possible demise of the aircraft.

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration he has now given to the new proposals from Messrs. Vickers-Armstrongs for an experimental aircraft embodying the principles of variable geometry.

Examination of the proposals is not yet completed.

In view of the rather exaggerated statements made about this proposal, would not the Minister consider it advantageous if the House were given a little more information about it? It is a fact that, instead of there being just one design involved, there are a number of different ideas which may or may not be best developed in one aircraft, and may we have an assurance that, no matter what may happen with regard to the American proposals, these different lines of inquiry will be pursued in this country?

I am always happy to give the hon. Gentleman and the House as much information as I can. I tried to do so in the recent debate on the aircraft industry. It is perfectly true that a number of principles are involved. What has been at issue is how many of those principles one can attempt to incorporate at the first stage in a research aircraft. Should the project be an ambitious one to start with or a little more modest? The answer to that depends, of course, on the cost.

To pursue the second part of my supplementary question, if American proposals for an ambitious prototype fall through, shall we in this country develop some of these ideas?

There are no proposals from the Americans. The proposals are from the company, and I think we had better await the American answer and then see what is the position.

asked the Minister of Supply if, before making any final decision with regard to the development of the Swallow aircraft with United States financial aid, he will make a further detailed statement with regard to the proposed terms on which the aid is to be made available.

It is not yet known whether the American Government will feel able to support this project under Mutual Aid. If they do, the standard conditions agreed on between the two Governments for this form of aid, which safeguard commercial rights in the invention, will apply.

Will the Minister take into account that there are many people in this country who feel that ideas have gone across the Atlantic for development in the United States without this country getting very much in return? Can he say whether it would be possible to give the House the terms of any possible agreement before it is concluded?

Again it would be difficult to give the House the precise terms of any agreement because it would be an agreement between two companies—for instance, a licence arrangement—and, as such, would be confidential. In broad terms, I should be only too happy to try to help the House. At this stage I can say that most of the techniques involved here have already been patented, and the conditions agreed upon between the two Governments are designed to safeguard commercial rights.

asked the Minister of Supply to what extent his Department has now considered financing the variable geometry aircraft in co-operation with the United States of America under the Mutual Air Programme; and to what extent within this programme other advanced methods of space travel are being considered.

As I have already stated in reply to the hon. Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Beswick), the examination is still proceeding. This particular variable geometry project has no special relevance to space travel.

As one who was trained to build turbines and other engineering products mathematically and geometrically, and having learned that engineering is a precise science, may I ask the Minister to explain what "variable geometry" means?

If, as a tyro, I may offer an explanation, I think the terms means an aircraft which varies its shape in flight.

asked the Minister of Supply what proportion of the initial capital cost of modifying power stations for producing missile war heads will be borne on the Vote of his Department.

I presume the hon. Gentleman has in mind the modification to certain civil power stations to enable them to produce, should the need arise, a grade of plutonium suitable for military purposes.

The United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority will pay the Central Electricity Generating Board for the capital cost of the modifications required; and will, in turn, recover this expenditure as an element in the price of military plutonium which is bought by my Department, and resold to the Services in the form of complete weapons. The cost of the modifications will in this way be recovered from the Defence Votes over a period.

Whilst the capital cost is to be met by the Vote on his Department, will the Minister state whether the extra cost of the fuel to the Atomic Energy Authority will also be met?

The Question related to the capital cost, but it is true that any extra operating cost will, in effect, be incurred by my Department in the prices of products bought by my Department.

May we be assured that extra charges likely to be involved by reason of the use of the atomic power stations for the making of plutonium will not fall on the civil power programme or on the electricity consumer?

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the arrangements decided on are designed to place the burden of the cost on my own Department and, through my Department, on the Service Departments.

asked the Minister of Supply what research he is sponsoring into a manned space aircraft, which can be launched like a rocket and which can land like a conventional aircraft, on the lines of the Dynasoar which is being developed for the United States Air Force.

Some aspects of the fundamental research currently being done in Ministry of Supply establishments have a relevance to space travel, but there is as yet no specific project.

What machinery exists by which we can keep in touch with these developments in the United States, when now we may have something to contribute but, because of the enormous expense, as the years pass we may have less to contribute? Can the Minister give any assurance as to the machinery we are developing now when we have the cards?

There are arrangements for the exchange of technical information in the military sphere between the United States and ourselves, and I am sure that this project will fall within the scope of those arrangements.

asked the Minister of Supply how many Blue Streak missiles being developed for the Royal Air Force will be used for scientific experiments; and whether these experiments will involve the launching of a space satellite.

While advantage will be taken of the test programme of the Blue Streak weapon to obtain incidental scientific information, there are at present no plans for diverting missiles to scientific experiments. As for earth satellites, I have nothing to add to the Answer which I gave on 16th June to the hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason).

asked the Minister of Health the present position with regard to the provision of a full geriatric service at the North Middlesex Hospital.

The service is provided at present under the supervision of three general physicians.

In consultation with their medical advisory committee, the regional hospital board is considering the recommendations made in a circular of October last for improving the services for old people and the chronic sick. The board will be making proposals to its hospital management committees for improving existing services where necessary in the light of these recommendations.

May I take it from the Minister's reply that the Board will not be suggesting the appointment of a fulltime geriatrician? Does he realise that the doctors and others concerned with elderly people in the area have been pressing for this appointment for the last six years, and that the position is getting extremely serious?

No, Sir; I think the hon. Lady would not be justified in making an assumption either of a negative or a positive character in that regard. The regional hospital board will make proposals, as I have said, but it is not for me to say what those proposals will be.

With some knowledge of this hospital, may I ask the Minister to try to expedite this matter? This hospital serves one of the most congested areas of North London—Wood Green, Edmonton and Tottenham. Not only is it in urgent need of a geriatric service, but will the Minister realise that, when this has been introduced, it will facilitate the turnover of beds and, incidentally, will add to the harmony of the relationship between the doctors and the general practitioners?

Yes, Sir. This hospital is known to me, as is also the surrounding area to which the right hon. Lady has referred. All these considerations are in my mind and, I am satisfied, in the mind of the regional board.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the unsatisfactory administrative arrangements controlling the admission to hospital of geriatric cases from Wood Green; and what action he proposes to take to remedy this.

I am not aware that the administrative arrangements are unsatisfactory, but if the hon. Member will let me have details of what she has in mind, I should be glad to look into the matter with the regional boards concerned.

But does the Minister realise that of the three hospitals which admit geriatric cases from Wood Green, the North Middlesex gives prior consideration to cases from N.9, N.17, and N.18 postal districts, and St. Ann's and the Prince of Wales's to the cases from the Borough of Tottenham and the marginal districts of other constituencies, so that Wood Green comes off very badly in this respect?

My information is that applications for the admission of patients from Wood Green receive exactly the same consideration as those from Edmonton, but I will certainly look at the matter again in the light of what the hon. Lady now says.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that, whilst there is a shortage of nurses in general hospitals, teaching hospitals frequently have a waiting list or more nurses than they require; and what action he is taking to redress this inequality.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave on 23rd June, to a Question on the same subject by the hon. Member for Rugby (Mr. J. Johnson).

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that student nurses who fail in their examination at the end of their three months' preliminary training at one hospital frequently repeat their training at one or more different hospitals and fail in their examinations in each case; and if he will make regulations to put an end to this practice which wastes public money and does not produce nurses.

I have no evidence that this practice is widespread, but in any case I would not wish to do anything to prevent a girl who wishes to become a nurse from having a second chance.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that I know of a nurse who went successively to four hispitals in Manchester and did practically nothing at any of them and eventually went back to Ireland, having lived for a year at our expense, and she was still not a nurse at the end of that time? Will he look into such cases if I send him information?

I should think that such a case must be very exceptional. I have known people in my own profession who practised successfully after having a certain initial difficulty to overcome.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the standard of accommodation for sisters in general hospitals is unsatisfactory; and if he will take steps to bring about improvements.

The standard of accommodation varies, but I am not aware that it is unsatisfactory in general. I rely on hospital authorities to carry out, within the limits of the resources available, whatever improvements are needed.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend look into the possibility of obtaining any outside accommodation which may become available—such as large houses which the owners no longer want—so as to use it for these sisters?

I will certainly take account of any possibilities which seem to offer help in obtaining accommodation of the type required.

asked the Minister of Health what is now the attack rate of paralytic poliomyelitis per 100,000 of the population aged 1–5 years, 6–10 years, and 11–15 years; and what is the death rate per 100 cases of paralytic poliomyelitis.

Information is not available for these precise age-groups. In 1957 the rates per 100,000 at ages 1–4, 5–9 and 10–14 were respectively 35.2, 21.6 and 8.6. The death rate over all age groups was 8 per 100 cases.

In view of that reply, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that his Department ought to reconsider the importation of untested vaccine?

I do not think that any such conclusion follows from the figures I have given in my Answer to the hon. Gentleman's Question.

Is the Minister also aware that although my hon. Friend has specified certain age groups, the fact is that there is a high percentage of poliomyelitis among the adult population?

The attack rate is a good deal lower among the adult population, but the mortality rate of those adults who get it is higher.

asked the Minister of Health what contribution, financial or otherwise, is being made by his Department in relation to research and propaganda on the connection between cancer of the lung and smoking.

Cancer research at public expense is being undertaken by the Medical Research Council and within the National Health Service but it is not possible to say how much is spent on research into smoking and lung cancer. Copies of a report by the Council and of a statement made in the House on 27th June last year were sent to local health authorities with the request that they should publish in their campaigns on health education information about the risks of smoking. These campaigns attract 50 per cent. Exchequer grant.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that the number of new cases of cancer of the lung is steadily increasing in this country, as indeed it is in other countries, and that the public really want to know whether tobacco in any form is safe, and if so, how much they can use? Will he consider preparing a leaflet with the imprint of the Ministry which can be given to the inquiring public by local authorities?

My right hon. and learned Friend will shortly be asking local health authorities for reports on the action taken in this matter during the year since the Medical Research Council's report was originally sent to them and for their comments and suggestions generally. I will certainly bear in mind the hon. Gentleman's suggestion for further guidance.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say how far his Department is co-operating with the Ministry of Education to educate boys about the danger of acquiring this habit?

And girls.

And girls.

We believe that the main publicity effort should be directed at the young and should be made by the local health authorities, which are primarily responsible for health education in their areas and are equipped to provide it. I have every reason to believe that the co-operation is good.

asked the Minister of Health if he will issue suggestions to local authorities in the Greater London area as to action to be taken during the next epidemic of smog.

I am sure that the authorities are already aware of their powers and responsibilities under the Clean Air Act and I do not think that any suggestions from my right hon. and learned Friend are called for.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary agree that the atmospheric conditions in the coming winter in the London area may well be little different from those in 1952, when 4,000 people died of smog? Will he reconsider his decision and give local authorities in the London area the best advice possible on what to do if another case of smog supervenes during the coming winter?

Yes, Sir. My Ministry and the Ministry of Housing and Local Government issue a joint broadcast notice when persistent fog is forecast recommending steps to reduce smoke and advising people with chronic respiratory complaints and heart conditions to stay indoors as far as possible. The question of actual treatment is, of course, not for the local authorities but for the hospitals and general practitioners under the National Health Service Act.

asked the Minister of Health, as representing the Lord President of the Council, if he will give the results of recent researches that have been carried out as to the best method of removing sulphur oxides from the air inspired and to ameliorate the worst effects of smog on the health of Londoners.

Research is being undertaken by the Fuel Research Station of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research and by other official and industrial organisations on methods of removing sulphur oxides from the atmosphere as part of the wider problem of the elimination of all pollutants. This work is, however, of a long-term nature and results are unlikely to be available for some time. To provide relief for those most affected by the conditions caused by serious air pollution, "smog masks" are available on prescription and trials are being undertaken of the various types of such masks as well as of ammonia dispensers and other air-conditioning devices.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give the House a little more information about the smog masks, which seem to be very efficient? When will he have a definite report upon them, and will it be available before the coming winter, when the possibility of smog is very great?

There is a smog mask already available on which controlled trials have taken place. The result of those trials has been a most effective form of smog mask. In addition to that, trials are going on into the possible value of ammonia shields and ammonia bottles. I think the hon. Gentleman has an ammonia shield.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman issue some leaflet to inform the public of the details of the various methods and when and how they may be obtained?

As the hon. Member knows, I am answering this Question on behalf of my noble Friend the Lord President of the Council, and I will certainly draw his attention to what the hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the hon. Member for Woolwich, West, as Chairman of the Kitchen Committee, whether he will take steps to improve the quality of the Cornish pasties served in the Members' Cafeteria.

I will look into my hon. Friend's complaint, and see what can be done. However, if he, as the Member for a Cornish constituency, has any culinary information to give, I shall be pleased to hear from him.

Does my hon. Friend appreciate that the articles of food being sold as Cornish pasties in the cafeteria at present do not bear any resemblance at all to pasties as eaten in Cornwall, except for a superficial similarity of shape? They do not contain any potatoes, turnips or onions and appear to be pre-cooked. Does not he consider that if one seeks to sell a traditional dish under its traditional name, it ought at least to be based on a traditional recipe, of which there are several for pasties, one of which I can quote: Pastry rolled out like a plate, Piled with 'Turmuts, Tates, mate,' Doubled up and baked like fate. That's a Cornish Pasty.

Will the hon. Member for Woolwich, West (Sir W. Steward) issue a leaflet to hon. Members indicating the dangers to which they may be subject as a result of consuming this remarkable edible?

Does the hon. Member for Woolwich, West realise that, as a result of the Government's policy in the last seven years, so many of my constituents have been driven from their homes to the south-west of the country that the art of making Cornish pasties has been lost in Cornwall and they now make Lancashire hotpot instead?

As one who has perhaps eaten more proper Cornish pasties than any other hon. Member, may I ask the hon. Member for Woolwich, West to bear in mind that what is sold downstairs is a complete monstrosity and that I shall be prepared to supply him with a proper recipe, although the resulting article will not be cheap?

I shall be most pleased to receive any valuable information from the hon. Member for Falmouth and Cam-borne (Mr. Hayman), as I shall be pleased to receive any culinary information from my hon. Friend the Member for Truro (Mr. G. Wilson).