asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how a photograph of the Chamber of the House of Commons, with honourable Members present, was obtained for a pamphlet entitled, "This is Britain," prepared by the Central Office of Information.

The photograph was obtained from a photographic news agency, which took it, with the permission of the authorities, before the ceremonial opening of the new Chamber. It was first circulated to the Press on 26th October, 1950, and was published by newspapers and periodicals in this country and overseas.

Will the Minister give an assurance that in future the Government will not be a party to a similar breach of precedent, which is an affront to the well-established traditions and dignity of the House, and will he withdraw the offending photograph from further circulation and destroy the existing stocks?

I think that supplementary question was prepared for a different answer from the one I have given. The hon. Gentleman has now only got round to the problem some eight years after it occurred.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. If the Financial Secretary is putting the responsibility on the authorities of the House, presumably the Serjeant at Arms, would you be good enough to indicate now or at a later stage what remedy hon. Members have if the responsibility lies in that particular quarter? It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, if I may say so, that whereas the Serjeant at Arms has the power to remove hon. Members from the House, we have not the power to remove him from anywhere.

This happened about eight years ago, and it is impossible to say how it happened then. I do not think there is any breach of Privilege involved. I remember the photograph quite well. It was taken before this present Chamber was opened, and I do not think any question of Privilege arises.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why his restrictions discriminate between the big five English banks, which are not allowed to engage in hire-purchase financing, and a Scottish bank, which is so permitted and if he will make a statement.

I regret that I cannot just at present add to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 24th June

Why should one Scottish bank be given the privilege and the five big English banks be denied the same kind of facilities? Secondly, if credit facilities are to be eased in the near future, would it not be better to have hire-purchase finance in capable and responsible hands such as the big five banks than to let them continue as they are at present?

I hope my hon. Friend will acquit me of discourtesy if I do not enlarge on my original Answer.

Is the Radcliffe Committee inquiring into this as a specific part of its inquiries? If not, would the hon. and learned Gentleman recommend his right hon. Friend to institute a full inquiry into the whole question of hire-purchase finance, which goes very much wider than the point raised in the Question?

I am afraid I should need notice of the first part of that supplementary question. I will certainly draw the second part of it to my right hon. Friend's attention.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will give an assurance that, in controlling inflation and maintaining voluntary negotiation for applications for increased wages and salaries, he will not disproportionately restrict expenditure on social and cultural projects which relieve hardship.

I can certainly assure my hon. Friend that it is my right hon. Friend's aim to observe due proportion in all things.

While thanking my hon. and learned Friend for that delightful Answer, may I ask him whether he will bear in mind, when considering the "due proportion", that a high standard in the arts is of spiritual value to a nation and that a high standard is also bound up with our European civilisation, which it is the aim and object of most hon. Members to preserve?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state in percentage form the cost of inflation since 1952 to which increased wages and salaries have contributed; and what have been the comparable increases to pensioners, widows, and the disabled.

Between 1952 and 1957 the total of wages and salaries paid increased by 43 per cent. while the total amount paid in pensions, widows' benefits and disablement benefits increased by 40 per cent. It is estimated that this increase in wages and salaries raised labour costs per unit of output by about one-fifth and accounted for about seven-tenths of the total increase in prices over the period.

Will my hon. and learned Friend answer the Question which I asked him previously: while conquering inflation is of great importance to the nation as a whole, why are some people able to buy their way out of inflation while others, living on small fixed incomes, do not have the same advantage? Can he try to balance all this to see that there is a "fair do" all round?

My hon. Friend asked me that question last week and I answered to the best of my ability—

Which was not very good.

—and I am afraid that my ability has not further advanced in the space of a week.

What proportion of this rise in wages and salaries is due to previous rises in the cost of living?

I do not think that that is a very profitable question to ask or that any answer to it would be very enlightening. It is like the old question of which came first, the hen or the egg.

If the Financial Secretary cannot answer that question, what meaning is there in the answer he gave to the previous question?

Since the hon. and learned Member also produced an entirely meaningless remark about the effect of output on the increasing cost per unit, will he say by how much less these costs per unit would have risen had the Government not held down the level of production in this country?

That, again, is a purely hypothetical question. The fact remains that during the years in question production increased enormously.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies for what reasons applicants for passports in the Uganda Protectorate are refused permission to travel; who is responsible for making inquiries and decisions in the cases concerned; and how many such cases have occurred in the last five years.

The issue of passports is within the discretion of the Governor and, when circumstances are considered to justify a refusal, it is not the practice to disclose the reasons or the nature of the inquiries made. Five applicants have been refused passports in Uganda during the last five years.

Has the Under-Secretary of State's attention been drawn to the case of Mr. Mawagi and Mr. Ulaayeneza, two students at Makerere College, who had their passports taken from them when they were going to the airport to go to the Brussels Exhibition? Is not this an intolerable interference with the freedom of the individual to travel and a perfect gift to the Communists, in that they can use it in their propaganda? What does the Under-Secretary of State intend to do about it?

I do not intend to do anything about it. I see no reason to depart from the normal practice and to disclose reasons in this case.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the worsening political situation in Tanganyika, with particular regard to the reasons for the banning of branches of the Tanganyika African National Union and the action taken against its officers.

I am not aware of the evidence on which the hon. Member concludes that the political situation in Tanganyika is worsening. My right hon. Friend referred in the House on 6th May last year to the reasons why the Tanganyika Government had taken action in certain instances against the Tanganyika African National Union. There has been no substantial change since then, and, indeed, I am glad to say that it has been possible to relax restrictions in some areas where elections will take place in September. Legal action against officers of T.A.N.U. has only been taken when there is prima facie evidence that they have broken the law.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that his evasive reply is quite unsatisfactory and that if he looks at the Answer given by his right hon. Friend on 26th June he will see that no fewer than 16 branches of T.A.N.U. have been banned and that this campaign against T.A.N.U. and the attempt to discredit T.A.N.U. has gone too far? Is it not time that the Secretary of State intervened to prevent it?

It is certainly not time that my right hon. Friend intervened. Of course, I looked at the Answer which he gave the other day. I should like to break that down. In 1957 four applications were refused, but only two have been refused this year.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the avowed object of this union is to break down any possibility of an inter-racial coming together? Will he support the Tanganyika Government in stopping these branches wherever possible and give his assistance to the United Tanganyika Party, which wants to bring all races together?

Mrs. Castle.

On a point of order. Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that—

That is not a point of order. The hon. Member should not use a point of order to get in another question. That is not right.

On a point of order. Is it in order for an hon. Member to give completely unsatisfactory and incorrect information? In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply given by the Under-Secretary of State, I beg to give notice that I will choose a suitable opportunity to raise the subject on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is now able to make a statement on the results of the discussions between the Governments of Northern Rhodesia, Nyasaland and the Federation on the issue of passports to British protected persons in the Federation.

A first meeting between the Federal and Territorial Governments took place on 18th June at which no final conclusions were reached. Meanwhile, the position remains as stated in my reply to the hon. Member on 3rd April.

Can the Under-Secretary of State tell the House the reasons for this mysterious delay? If the position is as he stated it to me on 3rd April, three months ago, that the issue of passports remains a Territorial responsibility, why are the Federal Government coming into the picture at all? Is not this leading to a great deal of anxiety both among Africans and on this side of the House?

I think the hon. Lady has said that before. I am distressed that she should be anxious about anything—

Why?

Because if hon. Members are anxious they ask me more questions. I will let the hon. Lady know as soon as the outcome of these discussions has been made known. If she will put down another Question, I shall be only too glad to answer it. But we must await the outcome of the discussions which are going on.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether inter-racial schools in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland are a territorial or a Federal responsibility.

Such schools would not be specifically the responsibility of the Territorial Governments or of the Federal Government.

Can the Under-Secretary help us in this little dilemma? Is he aware that the Federal Minister of Education, Mr. Julian Greenfield, said in May that the Federal Government had no intention of introducing interracial education in the schools? What would be the position if one of the Territorial Governments, having more interest in the policy of racial co-operation and integration than has the Federal Government, wished to make a start with an inter-racial school? Would it be empowered to do so under the Constitution?

There are provisions in the Constitution for delegation whereby it would, I think, be possible for either the Federal Government or a Territorial Government to take the necessary responsibility in relation to multi-racial schools, if both Governments were agreed.

Does that mean that the Federal Government would always have the power of veto if the Territorial Government wish to take the initiative in this very important aspect of multiracialism, which we all want to see? Does the hon. Gentleman's answer mean that the Federal Government would veto this?

I said, providing both Governments agreed. There is to be a review of the Constitution in 1960, and this seems to me to be just one of those matters which could then be written into the Constitution.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many African teachers qualified at Makerere College are now teaching in secondary schools in Zanzibar.

Two, Sir.

Does not the Under-Secretary feel that this is a shocking number for the people of Zanzibar and Pemba, and will not he use his best efforts to make more scholarships available to African school leavers for them to go to Makerere College, or other university colleges, so that they can return to their own people and invigorate them by teaching in their own schools and increasing the number of secondary students?

This will probably be among those matters to be considered by the special committee which, as I have told the hon. Gentleman, has already been set up to look into education.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will give the numbers of African elementary school leavers in Zanzibar who have gone to teacher teaching colleges for the years 1955, 1956 and 1957, respectively.

Since records are kept on a non-racial basis, I am afraid this information is not available.

Does not the Under-Secretary agree that, although the statistics are not kept, it is well known that Africans from these elementary schools do not go to the colleges in the same numbers as the Asians, especially the Arabs and Indians? In this campaign, will he make his best efforts to see that the Africans get a fairer and better deal than they have had in the past?

I am sure that the committee will take this and other relevant matters into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what was the subsidy on a 200 lb. bag of maize meal and wheat flour, respectively, in Northern Rhodesia in July, 1953; what is the subsidy today; and what has been the effect on the price of maize and flour, respectively, due to changes in the subsidy during this period.

In July, 1953, the subsidy was £1 6s. 2d. and £1 10s. 0d., respectively, per 200 lb. bag of whole grain. In July, 1955, responsibility for the control of maize meal and wheat flour prices was assumed by the Federal Government. I am not therefore able to give any information in reply to the latter part of the Question.

Does not the Under-Secretary's inability to give any information mean that the Colonial Secretary has been able to mislead the House with impunity? Did not the Colonial Secretary say on 13th May, in reply to a similar question from me: As for her remarks about the removal of subsidies, there were no subsidies to remove.—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 13th May, 1958; Vol. 588, c. 213.] Has not the Under-Secretary now proved that there were some subsidies to remove? Is it not a fact that they have been removed since the Federation began, with the result that there has been an increase of 100s. in the price of maize and a substantial increase in the price of bread? Can we have more accurate replies from the Colonial Secretary in future?

My right hon. Friend has never intentionally misled the House, and I hope that the hon. Lady will be the first to admit that. My reply to the last part of her question is that I am not trying to withhold information, but the hon. Lady will have to approach the Federal Government direct.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will give the number of elementary schools in Pemba and the total number of pupils enrolled; and whether it is his intention to provide a secondary school for the island.

There are twenty-two primary schools with a total enrolment of 4,952 in Pemba at present. The provision of secondary education on the island is one of the matters to be considered by the recently appointed Committee on Education.

Can the Under-Secretary confirm that there are 100,000 people in Pemba and that the number is increasing year by year? The figure of only 4,000 at primary schools is very small, and I hope he can give an assurance that he will do something about this matter, because it is not only inconvenient for pupils from Pemba to go to Zanzibar, but it is also befitting the people in Pemba that they should have these schools.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman's remarks will be noted by the committee.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what discussion took place on the resolution of the Legislative Assembly of the French Cameroons asking for reunification of the French and British Cameroons at the meeting between the Colonial Office and M. Xavier Torre, High Commissioner of the French Cameroons, during the week of 15th June.

The meeting referred to was one of the periodic talks between officials at which questions of mutual interest to the French and British Governments are discussed, and in this case the opportunity was taken to exchange views on various matters affecting the two Cameroonian Trust Territories. It would be contrary to normal practice to give details of the discussions at such meetings.

I welcome the announcement that there are periodic meetings to discuss mutually interesting questions. Can the hon. Gentleman assure the House that it is recognised by Her Majesty's Government that this dividing line between French and British administered parts of the Cameroons is an arbitrary line which cuts tribes in two? Will he make sure that there is the closest liaison between the British and French Governments to see that the wishes of the people of this area are consulted in deciding what their constitutional future shall be?

I can hold myself responsible for the wishes and aspirations of only British Territories, but I can certainly give the undertaking for which the hon and learned Member asked in the latter part of his supplementary question

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what consideration has been given to the establishment in Uganda, Kenya and Tanganyika of co-operative unions which shall undertake in increasing measure, for each of these territories as a whole, the work of promoting, supervising and guiding the co-operative societies hitherto carried on by the registrars and their staffs.

Encouragement will be given to the formation of such unions on a territory-wide basis when there is an expressed desire for them by members of the societies in the territories.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what provision is made for present or prospective leaders of co-operative organisations in African territories, as distinct from officials of Government co-operative departments, to receive training in the United Kingdom.

Organised training for present and prospective leaders of co-operative organisations is provided at the Co-operative College, Loughborough. Training facilities have also been provided by certain co-operative organisations in the United Kingdom.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that only by developing leaders from within the movement can a strong independent movement be developed? Can he give an assurance that the same facilities will be given to these leaders for the same encouragement and training as is given to Government officers at present?

Yes, Sir. I can give that undertaking.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what talks have taken place between the Governments of Singapore, the United Kingdom and the Federation of Malaya on the part Malaya will play in the internal security of Singapore; and what proposals have been made.

As announced at the end of the Singapore Constitutional discussions in May this year, the Federation Government have reaffirmed their undertaking to participate in the work of the Internal Security Council to be set up under the new Singapore Constitution on the lines of paragraphs 27 and 28 of the Report of the 1957 Singapore Constitutional Conference (Cmd. 147). Her Majesty's Government, in consultation with the Singapore Government, are now considering with the Federation Government how formally to provide for this association since the instrument containing the Singapore Constitution will be made under the authority of the United Kingdom Parliament and cannot bind the Federation as an independent state.

I thank the Under-Secretary for that reply. Does he agree that in the meantime no firm decisions should be taken until after the elections in Singapore, when the political climate may be more stable? Does he also agree that we should do nothing which in any way would retard the union of Singapore with the independent Federation of Malaya?

While not necessarily disagreeing with the hon. Member, that question goes very much wider than the Question on the Order Paper, which I have tried to answer.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the present political position in the Seychelles; and what economic developments are contemplated in the near future.

As the reply is rather lengthy, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Meanwhile, can the Under-Secretary give an assurance that the various communities are now satisfactorily working the Constitution?

Yes, Sir, I think so. The hon. Member may like to know that I hope, if possible, to make a visit to this Territory later this year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what further violent incidents have occurred recently in Aden; and what information he now has in respect of the perpetrators of previous incidents.

Since the incidents referred to in my right hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) on 15th May, there have been a number of incidents of sabotage and terrorism involving explosives. In one of them a schoolboy was seriously injured, and there have been a number of other civilians injured, fortunately less gravely. As regards the latter part of the Question, present indications point to the instigation of these outrages by sources outside Aden. For example, examination of the fragments of bombs used in some of the incidents show them to be of Russian pattern.

Have any arrests been made and has the evidence which the hon. Gentleman has just produced been made public?

No arrests have so far been made. I am not sure whether what I have just said has been made public before, but that is one of the reasons I have stated it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to what extent his Department exercises a co-ordinating function in respect of the welfare and placing of students in this country from Colonial Territories, particularly in respect of student nurses and nurses; and whether efforts are still being made to ensure suitable girls from Hong Kong, Singapore and elsewhere for training as nurses in this country.

The Students Branch of my Department is responsible for the placing of colonial students in universities and teacher training colleges in the United Kingdom. It also exercises a general co-ordination function through the Overseas Students Co-ordinating Committee. On this Committee, which is concerned with welfare and other matters affecting students, the British Council and the Heads of the Students Departments of Overseas Governments in London are represented.

Candidates for nursing training have, since 1954, made their own arrangements direct with matrons of hospitals, with the advice and assistance of local committees set up for this purpose in the territories concerned. This procedure is working well and there is no dearth of suitable candidates from Hong Kong, Singapore and elsewhere.

I am gratified to hear the last part of the hon. Gentleman's reply, but is he satisfied that this co-ordination is really taking place quite harmoniously between this Government and various other Governments? Secondly, can he say what has become of the committee for the welfare of colonial students in this country set up some years ago but, apparently, now no longer existing?

The welfare of students is the concern of the British Council and the Students Branch of my Department. I think I can readily give the undertaking asked for in the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what efforts have been made by the Government to foster co-operative enterprise in Cyprus, particularly in the wine industry.

The Cyprus Government have helped with money and with guidance through the Department of Co-operative Development, which was set up especially for this purpose. Substantial loans have been made to the Vine Products Co-operative Marketing Union for the operation of their winery and distillery. Help has also been provided for improvements to village wineries.

I thank the Under-Secretary for that interesting reply, but is he aware that it certainly appears from the interesting report on the Cyprus wine industry made by a great French expert that there is here an opportunity for the development of co-operative enterprise on a much bigger scale, and will he be good enough to see that attention is given to that matter?

The Cyprus Government are very alive to this possibility.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that the exiled general secretary of the Cyprus Workers' Federation has recently been unanimously re-elected for a three-year period by its members; and if he will now reconsider the decision to exclude him from the island.

The answer to the first part of the question is "Yes". As regards the second part, I have nothing to add to the last sentence of my right hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member for East Ham, North (Mr. Prentice) on 15th May and to paragraph 4, sub-paragraph IX, of Her Majesty's Government's statement of policy which was published on 19th June.

Is this not a policy of futility? Whatever may have happened in the past, is it not now clear that, if Her Majesty's Government wish to reduce tension in Cyprus and prepare a basis for negotiation, it would be best to have the democratically elected leaders of the Cypriot people on the island itself? Since the trade unionists of Cyprus have now reaffirmed their faith in this particular person, is it not wholly unreasonable to continue to exclude him from his habitation?

I cannot agree with that. I do not think there is any reason for this particular man to be treated in any way differently from others in the same circumstances. If the hon. Gentleman will look at Her Majesty's Government's statement of policy, he will find that this is covered, and, I think, very fairly covered.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the unsatisfactory conditions of 600 prisoners in Her Majesty's Prison, Lokitaung, Kenya.

I would refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend's reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall) on 11th June. There are not 600 but seven people held in Lokitaung prison.

In view of the statement the Minister has just made, which I do not wish to deny, will he be good enough to confirm those figures, because recent information I have from there suggests otherwise?

I did very carefully try to verify them, because I did not think that the hon. Gentleman could be so far out in his arithmetic. I think I am right.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he has received the summary of information gained in a Survey of Part-Time Courses in Agriculture, 1953 to 1956, published by the City and Guilds of London Institute; whether he has noted the criticisms contained therein and certain proposals for future progress; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he will make a statement on the proposals made in the Survey of Part-Time Courses in Agriculture published by the City and Guilds of London Institute.

This report has been brought to the attention of the Committee under the Chairmanship of my right hon. Friend Earl De La Warr which is at present reviewing the provision of further education for agriculture made by local education authorities. My right hon. Friend must await its findings before making any statement.

Does the hon. Gentleman recollect that this report states that in the majority of counties part-time education in agriculture is now neither sufficient in quantity nor sufficiently comprehensive, and that farmers are reluctant to encourage it in spite of the changes which are taking place in agriculture, one example being given, namely, the county of Shropshire, where excellent provision is made? Ought not steps to be taken to bring the rest up to that standard?

I am aware of the points in the report to which the hon. Gentleman has called attention. These are just the reasons that the De La Warr Committee ought to examine it. Of course, it was for these and similar reasons that that particular Committee was set up.

I appreciate that we must await the advice of the De La Warr Committee, but does the Parliamentary Secretary recognise that this survey indicates that we should take a much more optimistic view of part-time education in agriculture than many people have taken hitherto?

Yes, I wish to await the full report, because there are many complications, as I know the hon. Gentleman is aware, in relation to further education in agriculture generally.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will state the basis upon which he has fixed the amounts payable to farmers in respect of improvement grants in cases where the farmer does the work himself.

The standard costs on which a farmer may claim grant assume that the improvement is carried out in the most economical way consistently with the constructional requirements set out in the regulations. The figures include allowances for the cost of materials and for labour according to the nature of the work to be done.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is some feeling among small farmers who do the work themselves that they are given much smaller figures to work upon than they would be if they employed a contractor? Do his methods of calculation take into account the supervisory aspect of the matter? Will he look at this question, because it is desirable that the small farmer should feel that he has a square deal?

I am rather surprised that my hon. Friend should say that small farmers feel that. I myself was not aware of that feeling, and I should be glad to look at any information my hon. Friend may care to let me have about it. My own view is that this is a very difficult matter on which to ascertain real standard costs. We have done our best with the deliberate intention of helping the small farmer, because this is the only way in which he can include his labour.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what progress has been made in his negotiations with regard to the ban on British livestock imports into Australia.

The prohibition of imports of certain livestock into Australia which took effect at the beginning of last month has been fully discussed with the Australian authorities. They have assured us that they entirely appreciate the concern of livestock breeders both in this country and in Australia. They state their decision was taken only after the most careful consideration of the disease blue tongue and its method of spread, and also of the disastrous consequences that would follow if the disease were to appear in Australia. They have said that the need for the ban will be kept under review but that no exception can be made in favour of imports from the United Kingdom.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that this is a serious matter, and will he keep on trying to persuade the Australian Government to reconsider their decision?

We accept entirely that it is a very serious matter. We have been in the closest consultation with the Australians on the point, and we have left them in no doubt whatever about our views. We should nevertheless realise just what a serious disease blue tongue is and what havoc it could cause either in this country or in Australia.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, as representing the Lord President of the Council, to what extent a study has been made of reports of the effects upon wild life of chemicals used in agriculture in other countries, particularly in the United States of America and Germany, as made available to him by the technical agencies of the United Nations; and whether he will now begin field trials with substances which may be harmful to wild birds and mammals and give an assurance that longer term research is being carried out.

Reports of the effects upon wild life of chemicals used in agriculture in other countries are studied as they become available from any quarter. The Nature Conservancy is not aware of any up to date evidence from this country to prove that such chemicals are causing any important or widespread reduction in bird or mammal populations. Should any evidence be available, it would be glad to receive any properly documented cases. Pending such evidence, it has not been found possible to allocate scientific manpower for further research on this problem.

That is a very disappointing reply. Does my hon. Friend not realise that there is considerable evidence to show that many thousands of wild birds are being killed every year as a result of the use of toxic chemicals in agriculture? If I send him any evidence I can lay my hands on, will he look at the matter again and reconsider his view?

I should welcome any evidence my hon. and gallant Friend cares to send me. We are most anxious always to safeguard the position in this respect, but, as yet, we have not the sort of evidence to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers.

Will my hon. Friend assure me that his Department does not ignore the damage caused to insect life, not only to what might be termed semi-tame insects such as bees, but also to the wide range of insect life which is extremely beneficial to agriculture and horticulture, to which great damage is being done?

That is another important aspect, I entirely agree, and we have not lost sight of it.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what chemicals used in agriculture are regarded as likely to be harmful to wild birds and mammals; what research there has been into this question since the Third Report of the Zuckerman Working Party on Toxic Chemicals in Agriculture (Risks to Wild Life); whether these have included field studies and fundamental research; and on what scale and at what cost.

The Interdepartmental Advisory Committee on Poisonous Substances used in Agriculture and Food Storage keeps a general oversight regarding chemicals used in agriculture which may prove harmful to wild birds and mammals. The Committee have to be satisfied on these matters so far as reasonably possible before making recommendations to ensure the safety in use of chemical products. Relevant information is provided by manufacturers at the request of the Committee. Owing to lack of funds and of scientific manpower it has not, however, proved possible to undertake field trials or fundamental research on the subject since the Zuckerman Working Party reported.

Surely field studies which might produce a very valuable result could be carried out at very small cost. May I press my hon. Friend to take this matter seriously and think about it again?

I will naturally take note of what my hon. and gallant Friend says with regard to this matter. Of course, the Zuckerman Committee did look into these matters fully, but I shall be very happy to look at any further evidence my hon. and gallant Friend can send me with regard to these matters.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the total sum so far expended in Wales and in England, respectively, under the Agriculture (Improvement of Roads) Act, 1955.

At 30th June, 1958, grants amounting to £48,753 and £17,316 had been paid to highway authorities in Wales and England, respectively. The cost of work already approved, however, is £458,000, involving eventual payment of grant of approximately £207,000 in Wales and £133,000 in England.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this reply is not really satisfactory? Will he take account of the fact that this Act was based on a Bill framed on the advice of the present Lord Kilmuir, then Minister for Welsh Affairs, to deal with what were admitted to be very serious conditions in North and Mid-Wales? In those circumstances, will more be done to implement this Act?

I am sorry that my hon. Friend feels that this Answer is insufficient, but I assure him that this is a matter which takes some time to get under way. While undoubtedly we were initially held up and are still held up to some extent by a shortage of funds, at the same time it is true that these matters take a considerable time first to plan and then to carry into effect. If my hon. Friend will study my Answer, he will see what cumulative effect is already being shown.

Can the hon. Gentleman give any indication as to when the money that he estimates is going to be spent will be spent? How much does he expect to be spent during the next year?

In order to give the hon. Gentleman accurate figures, I would be grateful if he would put down a Question.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, in view of the recent unilateral action by the Icelandic Government in publishing regulations declaring a 12-mile fishing limit round Iceland's coast, if he will now make a further statement on the action which Her Majesty's Government propose to take to protect the legitimate fishing interests of the United Kingdom.

The Icelandic Government gave notice that they proposed to publish these regulations, and the attitude of Her Majesty's Government was made clear in the Declaration of 4th June. There is nothing I can add to that statement.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the fishermen of Hull and Grimsby who work in these waters are likely to lose their work altogether and be completely ruined unless some protection is given to them? Since time runs on so quickly, could he say what the Government are likely to do to help them?

The Government have made their position abundantly clear in the statement to which I called attention and which I think has the general approval of the fishing industry. We do keep in the closest touch with the industry.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether we are having discussions with the Icelandic Government about this? It is an urgent matter, and it is important that we should get a reasonable settlement if possible.

We have made it clear that we are both willing and anxious to enter into discussions, but it needs two sides to come to any table to discuss the matter.

Can my hon. Friend say whether any further progress has been made towards the idea of regional talks in this matter, because it is vitally urgent not only to the distant-water fleets but to the inshore fishermen in England to know what will happen?

Yes. I do not think I can do better than refer my hon. Friend to the supplementary answer given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs only yesterday in the House, when he said: There are three ways of negotiation, an international conference covering all the countries of the world, a regional conference, or bi-lateral negotiations. I am very anxious to arrive at a solution by any of those three methods."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 2nd July, 1958; Vol. 590, c. 1311.]

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many young people under the age of 18 years, before the Newcastle Magistrates' Court, have been remanded to gaol in 1956, 1957 and 1958, respectively; and what were their ages in each case.

I will, with permission, circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The hon. and learned Gentleman will agree that the figures reveal a rather alarming and shocking state of affairs. Is it not rather disgraceful that any children should be remanded to gaol before they have been found guilty of any offence? Is he aware that a boy of 15 years of age in my constituency was recently remanded to gaol when he had committed only a very trivial technical offence? Does not he agree that what is happening throughout the North-East is nothing more than a breach of Section 27 of the 1948 Act? These children are being certified as unruly and depraved when they ought not to be so certified. Will he at least look into this matter—it is an extremely important matter—and receive a deputation from both sides of the House to discuss it?

When the hon. Gentleman studies these figures, I do not think he will feel quite so alarmed. In the last three years, only one boy, aged 14, has been remanded to gaol, and that was last year. My right hon. Friend agrees that remand centres are very desirable, and he intends that they should be provided as soon as funds can be spared for this purpose.

Mr. Popplewell.

On a point of order. As I am a member of the Newcastle Bench, Mr. Speaker, could you not call someone from this side?

I failed to observe the hon. Lady.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that all magistrates' courts in the North-East are seriously perturbed about the lack of reasonable remand home facilities for these youths? Is he aware that there has been a meeting representing magistrates' courts which is going to present a scheme to him to allow a remand home to be placed at their disposal covering that area? Will he promise that when it is presented to him he will give very sympathetic consideration to its early implementation?

My right hon. Friend is indeed conscious of the need for a remand centre in the North-East, and indeed elsewhere, and, of course, he will give sympathetic consideration to anything which is put before him.

As a member of the Newcastle Bench, may I ask my hon. and learned Friend whether he is aware that we had an all-party meeting at which it was agreed that we should, if the Home Secretary was agreeable to receive us, take a deputation to the Home Secretary and that until we had a chance to state our case to him we would not raise questions in the House of Commons?

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that when I was a cockney child the policeman, when we misbehaved, flipped us over the ear with his black woollen glove and told us that if we did not behave he would run us inside, or that something else terrible would happen, with the result that we behaved ourselves? Is it not the case that we are doing a little too much about running children into approved schools at great public cost, and, although they have a public school life, it is not necessarily for the permanent good of the children?

On a point of order. In view of the observations of the hon. Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward), Mr. Speaker, would you allow a correction? There was never such an agreement entered into on questions of this description, and the hon. Lady's observation is a direct misrepresentation of what actually took place.

There is nothing to withdraw. It is true.

Following are the figures: The numbers, sexes and ages of the young persons remanded to prison in the years 1956 to 1958 were:— — Boys aged: Girls aged: 14 15 16 17 14 15 16 17 1956 — 4 1 14 — — — — 1957 1 1 2 14 — — — 1 1958 (to date) — 1 2 20 — — — —

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why he has refused permission to the corporation of Newcastle-upon-Tyne to demolish an air-raid shelter between Clara Street and Hugh Street after many minor accidents to children have occurred on it.

I naturally regret that any accidents should have happened. But children like climbing, and on present information my right hon. Friend is not satisfied that this shelter presents such special risks as to necessitate its demolition. My right hon. Friend is consulting the local authority regarding the provision of a guard rail at the bottom of the sloping roof.

Is the Minister aware that this shelter is dilapidated, falling to pieces, and will be worthless for the purpose for which it is intended? Is she aware that a large number of minor accidents and one major accident have occurred on it? In my opinion, if her right hon. Friend maintains his rather silly attitude, he is rendering the Crown liable for damages in respect of any accident upon it. Unless it is demolished in the near future, I shall advise my constituents to sue the Crown for damages for injury to their children upon it.

It is open to the local authority to make representations to my right hon. Friend if it considers that a shelter is unsound or insanitary. This shelter is structurally sound and was sealed some years ago. In the circumstances, my right hon. Friend does not feel that there are grounds for its demolition.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent his Department was consulted about the plans to prepare deep mines in North Staffordshire for civil defence purposes in case of a hydrogen bomb attack.

There has been no occasion for such consultations.

Is not the Home Office supposed to be co-ordinating Civil Defence plans and to give expert guidance on them? As it is the Government's policy not to provide or prepare deep shelters for the population in general, the question is whether it is not a waste of time and money for the National Coal Board to follow a quite different policy.

The sole purpose of the work undertaken by the National Coal Board in deep mines is to improve the safety of miners who might be caught underground in an attack. There has been no suggestion that the investigations to which the hon. Member has referred were for purposes of public shelters. Had they been so, they would have been initiated by and been the responsibility of the Home Office.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what consultations he has had with the authorities concerned with the provision of morphia in the Port Medical Centre at Cardiff Docks and other dock areas: and when he expects to be able to announce his conclusions.

After consultation between the Home Office and other Departments concerned my right hon. Friend has decided, as a special case, to authorise the keeping of supplies of morphia for use by nurses in an emergency at port medical centres where suitable safeguards can be arranged. Details will be settled as soon as possible in consultation with the National Dock Labour Board.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary aware that I am extremely grateful to him?

asked the Prime Minister if he will now state whether the inspection of atomic plants supplied to Italy, Japan and other countries will be under the International Atomic Energy Agency; and what steps are taken to ensure that plutonium produced in these plants is not used for military purposes.

The United Kingdom's agreements with Italy and Japan provide for consultation between the contracting parties to determine in what respects and to what extent they desire to arrange for the safeguards in the agreements to be administered by an appropriate international agency. Detailed arrangements for implementing the safeguards have not yet been made.

In view of the fact that this country is proposing to export atomic plants to Brazil, Germany and, understand, even Spain, is it not imperative that we should make certain that there are adequate controls to ensure that military plutonium is not extracted for the manufacture of atomic arms? At what stage will the International Atomic Energy Agency be drawn into these agreements? Is continuous supervision allowed for?

The agreements provide for consultation as to what would be the most appropriate way of policing these agreements. It is a matter of importance but not of great urgency, because it will take a considerable time before these plants can be ready.

In view of the fact that all these plants which are being established in many countries which are now called non-nuclear will be capable of producing fissile material for weapons, is it not important that at an early stage the principle should be established that the Atomic Energy Agency shall be the authority which carries out the requisite permanent inspection?

These are bilateral agreements between ourselves, the Italians and the Japanese, and we have included in the agreements provision for making these controls and safeguards. We are now discussing what would be the most appropriate way by which they should be carried out.

I have examined the agreements which have been made with Japan and Italy, and I am asking the Prime Minister whether he does not think it desirable at an early stage to get a firm agreement that the Agency should be used for this purpose.

I will consider that. But, as I say, it is not a matter of great urgency, because, unfortunately, these plants take a very long time to manufacture.

asked the Prime Minister if he has considered the latest Harwell report showing that the bones of a baby examined in 1957 contained more than twice as much strontium 90 as those with the highest deposit in the previous year; and if, in the light of this further evidence, he will stop all nuclear tests by this country immediately.

The report to which the hon. Gentleman refers shows that the maximum content of strontium 90 discovered was a figure of 3:2 units. That is only a small fraction of the level which the Medical Research Council report suggested was the maximum permissible for the general population. The answer to the second part of the Question is "No, Sir."

If more than 103 children's bones could have been examined, is it not reasonable to assume that a far higher contamination figures than 3.2 strontium units would have been revealed because more children would have been examined? Secondly, as strontium deposits from explosions which have already taken place will be continuing to accumulate for the next ten years, does the Prime Minister not think that the figure of ten units which the Medical Research Council regarded as the level requiring immediate reconsideration will shortly be reached, at least for some children?

I should have thought that that was unlikely. I remind the hon. Member, however, that the Medical Research Council report suggested that 100 units should be taken as the maximum permissible level, and I agree that when it reached ten units consideration should be given to the position.

If we are to indulge in misleading propaganda, what conclusion should be draw from the fact that the birth rate of healthy babies in the Harwell housing estates is roughly 50 per cent. above the national average?

Statistics are notoriously very dangerous things.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will initiate discussions with the Prime Ministers of other Commonwealth Governments in order to agree upon a joint policy towards the Lebanon.

No, Sir. There is already, in accordance with normal procedure, constant exchange of views and information with other Commonwealth Governments about the situation in the Lebanon.

Does the Prime Minister agree that, while Commonwealth Governments will be very pleased at the improved relationships which now exist between the United Kingdom Government and the United States of America following the folly of Suez, nevertheless it would be a great tragedy if the close affinity of the Commonwealth itself were to suffer because of the closeness of our own Government with the United States? Is he not aware that there are reports that Mr. Diefenbaker, for instance, is extremely worried about a certain lack of co-operation which he feels exists in the shortage of information which is submitted to Canada?

I am sure that what the hon. Member said in the latter part of his supplementary question is not the case. I have made it a practice of being in constant communication with the Prime Ministers of the Commonwealth in a most intimate and frank way. It is part of the working of the Commonwealth to which I attach great importance.

asked the Prime Minister if he has yet received the final report of the Technical Evaluation Committee on the Windscale accident; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The Report is being published today as a White Paper.

The Report recommends that a release of Wigner stored energy should be carried out on the Windscale Pile No. 2 when improved instrumentation and other modifications to the Pile have been installed; and that thereafter the reactor should be operated normally subject to certain modifications in procedure. I understand that the Atomic Energy Authority are studying the implications of the recommendations in the Report relating to the re-starting of Windscale Pile No. 2.

I should like to take this opportunity of expressing the gratitude of Her Majesty's Government for the work done by Sir Alexander Fleck, the members of the Technical Evaluation Committee and the Technical Working Parties.

Does this complete the series of reports or are we to expect still more before we can form a complete picture of what happened?

Yes, Sir, this is the last of the series of reports. This is the technical one, which took longer to complete. This finishes the whole series, and this last one will, I think, be available at 3.45 p.m. today.

Is any figure available for the cost of this accident?

No, Sir. I do not think I could give a figure.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the failure of an electric generator turbine on Saturday, 28th June, at Calder Hall B Nuclear Power Station, now nearing completion.

A turbine failure occurred at about 8 p.m. on Saturday, 28th June, at Calder Hall B Power Station. I am glad to be able to inform the House that no one was injured. The power house is separate from the reactor, and there was and is no danger of any release of radioactivity. The turbine affected was of the conventional type in general use in power stations, and was a new machine in the early stage of commissioning. The reactor is undamaged and will be back on power at the end of next week for its primary purpose of producing plutonium.

The Atomic Energy Authority has convened a Board of Inquiry consisting of independent experts, members of the Authority staff and Trade Unions and Staff Associations' representatives to investigate the cause of the accident. The Chairman is to be Mr. P. T. Fletcher, Deputy Managing Director of the Authority's Industrial Group. The Board will hold its first meeting on 4th July.

While appreciating that this accident occurred on the steam side of the plant and was not peculiar in its nature to a nuclear plant, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, taking this in conjunction with the earlier Windscale accident, he is satisfied that there is a proper concern for safety in the organisation of the Atomic Energy Authority?

Oh, yes, and I think that it was certainly the case that this was a defect—though it is not for me to say until the report is published—in the turbine, which could have happened if it had been driven by a conventional force.

May I ask the Prime Minister to consider this fact, that although one accepts that of course there is proper regard for safety in these establishments, there was also, we must remember, a mistake and that some calculations went astray? Ought we not, therefore, to remember the fact that these very skilled, expert people can make mistakes when we give categorical assurances, for example, that there can be no danger in carrying nuclear weapons in aircraft patrolling this country?

This not a discussion about anything to do with the nuclear. This is a question of a failure of a turbine which happened to be driven by nuclear power. If there was a fault in this new turbine, no doubt it was a fault in construction, or something of that kind, but that will emerge when the full inquiry is held.