asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the amount still outstanding for the payment of post-war credits; and whether he will state the number of applications made to him for payment on hardship grounds.

The answer to the first part of the Question is £443 million; and I regret that the answer to the second part is not known.

Is the Chancellor aware that the hardship grounds referred to are those of people who are very direly in need of this money? Will he at least do something to relieve this hardship?

I think that the hon. Member knows that the difficulty is, and always has been found by previous Governments to be, that of defining hardship for this purpose. It has been thought best to allocate the money that is available to repayment on simple grounds of age.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm the general impression in the country that he is holding back any action on this question until the immediate pre-Election Budget?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will consider lowering the age to 50 years at which all people shall be entitled to post-war credits.

No, Sir.

Will the Chancellor now answer a supplementary question from me in the same terms as that asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Huyton (Mr. H. Wilson) on the previous Question?

If I had to answer that, the answer would be that I cannot anticipate my next year's Budget.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the amount of post-war credits outstanding at the present time; what effect the release of the whole of such credits would have upon the economy; and how the present figure compares with those of 1956 and 1957.

There are £443 million of post-war credits outstanding at the present time. The total was £461 million in July, 1957, and £478 million in July, 1956. The effect on the economy of releasing the whole of these credits would depend on how fast and to what extent they were spent. This cannot be forecast with any accuracy.

Does the Chancellor not think that the time has now arrived when the same treatment ought to be afforded to those people holding post-war credits as has been granted by Tory Chancellors ever since 1951 to big business interests in this country?

What the hon. Gentleman says does not seem to me to be relevant in the slightest degree to the problem covered by this Question.

But in view of the fact that the figure is well over £460 million and that it is thirteen years since the war—

Four hundred and forty-three million pounds.

If the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) would not interrupt me, Sir, I am quoting precisely what the Chancellor said in answer to Question No. 1 and not what he said it was a year or two ago. In view of the fact that the figure is over £460 million and that it is thirteen years since the war, has there not been a capital gain by Her Majesty's Government of £300 million because of the reduction in purchasing power when the money is paid out, and a gain of £30 million, making £790 million out of which these people have been swindled? And on what has he spent the money? Was it spent on guided missiles?

As the hon. Gentleman started his supplementary question with the wrong figure, I think that the deductions he has made are probably wrong too.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what would be the cost of paying interest at 2½ per cent. to all those entitled to post-war credits.

About £11 million in the first year, declining by nearly £½ million a year thereafter.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman feel that he is doing a very mean thing to people who have their money invested in the Government by not giving them some kind of return? He is taking £11 million out of the pockets of people who, in many instances, cannot afford it, and does he realise that, in addition, the disastrous economic policy of the Government—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—yes, indeed—is reducing the value of the money which is held by the Government against these reluctant creditors.

As far as there is anything in the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, it would be considerably more true during the period when he and his right hon. and hon. Friends were in office.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in view of Her Majesty's Government's recent measures for the relaxation of credit, if he will now make a statement on the Government's policy with regard to wage and salary claims.

It would be a serious mistake to regard recent credit relaxations as any justification for an indulgent attitude towards costs and prices. The maintenance of the value of our money requires continuing moderation in wage and salary settlements.

As the Chancellor has carried out a major credit relaxation on the ground that the economic situation of the country is easier, how can he justify no relaxation at all in wage claims?

It is just as important as ever that wage costs and the prices that depend upon them should be stabilised. As I have said several times, any wage increases which go beyond any increase in national productivity are bound to be inflationary.

How does the right hon. Gentleman reconcile this attitude with the attitude which became very clear during the passage of the Finance Bill through the House, when he was quite anxious to give additional incentives to increase dividend payments? Will the right hon. Gentleman now say that, despite those incentives, he expects dividends to be held down just as much as wages are encouraged to be held down?

No such incentives were intended nor, I believe, given.

Has my right hon. Friend read the document called, "A Plan for Progress", the underlying theme of which is that there must be wage restraint in relation to a steadily increasing production?

I have not yet had time read that document.

When the right hon. Gentleman does read it, will he bear in mind that that would be associated with an expanding economy and fair shares and social justice in the Budget? Will he make one matter absolutely plain because, party politics apart, it is extremely important and should be understood in the country? The right hon. Gentleman has reiterated this afternoon an appeal for wage restraint. Will he say whether, in his view, dividends should be held down in exactly the same way as he hopes wage claims will be held down?

I have said on several occasions that there is still a requirement for moderation in wages and dividends.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will now introduce legislation to amend the Trustee Act so as to widen the range of investments permitted to trustees; and, in particular, so as to include approved categories of investment in equity shares and building societies.

The whole question of widening the range of investment by trustees is still under review, but I regret that I am unable to say how soon legislation can be introduced.

Although the types of investment suggested in the Question are now very respectable and reliable, is my right hon. Friend satisfied that the Treasury are being quite objective about this and are not merely trying to support the gilt-edged market by channelling into it as much trust money as possible?

I will take note of what my hon. Friend has said when this review is completed and the results are available to me.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what he estimates would be the reduction in cost per year to his Department as an employer if contributions to the National Insurance Fund by the employees were reduced for men by 1s. 10d., for women by 1s. 7d., for juveniles by 1s., and for others in proportion, per week, and if the employer's contributions were reduced to the same extent for persons employed in the United Kingdom; and what would be the additional savings to his Department due to local authorities having less to pay on Insurance Fund contributions;

(2) what he estimates would be the reduced cost to employers in the private trading sector if their contributions to the National Insurance Fund were reduced in proportion to a reduction in the contributions of employees of 1s. 10d. for men, 1s. 7d. for women, and 1s. for juveniles; and what would be the reduction to employers in the other sectors.

If employers' National Insurance contributions were reduced in proportion to reductions in employees' contributions of 1s. 10d. for men, 1s. 7d. for women and 1s. for juveniles, the total reduction in employers' contributions would be about £87 million a year. Approximately £7 million would relate to direct employees of the Central Government, including the Armed Forces, about £6 million to local authorities, about £10 million to the nationalised industries and other public corporations, and the balance of £64 million to the private sector. It is not possible, without undue expenditure of time and money, to estimate the reduction in grants from the Exchequer to local authorities which would result from the reduction in the employers' contributions payable by the latter.

Whilst thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that information, in order to get the matter clear, will he tell me what would be the total figure of the Insurance Fund if contributions were reduced to the amounts mentioned in the Questions?

I have answered the points put by the hon. Gentleman in his two Questions, if he will study the figures, but if there is any additional information he would like to have, and which I can give him, I shall be glad if he will write to me, when I will let him have the answers or, alternatively, perhaps he will put down another Question.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many of the contributors to the National Insurance Fund have reached the 6s. 9d. in the £ Income Tax rate, how many the 8s. 6d. in the rate, how many are paying the Surtax rate at 2s. in the £, at 3s. 6d. and at 6s. 6d., respectively; and how much is the tax relief for each of these sections in connection with their contributions to the National Insurance Fund per week, for men, and how much for women.

I regret this information is not available.

Is it correct that the total amount of tax relief to insured persons is £50 million and that the tax relief for employers amounts to £129 million?

I could not give that information without notice, but the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that it is only the pensions contribution which ranks for tax relief.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when the next report of the Cohen Council will be available.

The chairman of the Council has informed me that the Council hopes to issue its second report within the next month or two.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the Council will give a full explanation of the mystery of how the Retail Price Index keeps going up whilst import prices keep going down?

I could not possibly give that assurance. The Council is, of course, entirely independent, and what its members put in its report is entirely a matter for their discretion.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what shares in the Suez Canal Company are owned by Her Majesty's Government; what is their current market value; and, as the company no longer owns the canal, whether he will state the policy of Her Majesty's Government as to continued ownership, or otherwise, of these shares.

Her Majesty's Government own 353,804 shares in the Suez Finance Company. Their current market value is about £16 million. No decision has been taken about the future of the Government's holding.

Would my right hon. Friend be prepared to make a relatively early statement to the House about the future of this holding, having regard to the fact that if Her Majesty's Government continue to hold the shares it might easily lead them into some rather curious situations if the policy of the company did not happen to coincide with the desires and purposes of the policy of Her Majesty's Government?

I think it would be premature to take decisions as to the disposal or otherwise of these shares in present circumstances.

Could the Chancellor of the Exchequer tell us whether the Government have a policy for the pilots and the workmen who left their jobs at the instigation of the Government?

That is quite a different question.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why the War Damage Commission payment of £265 15s. 3d. was approved in respect of No. 66, King Street, Plymouth, in 1948, in view of the fact that the result was a dwelling unfit for human habitation.

The provisions of the War Damage Act, 1943, require the War Damage Commission to meet the cost of war damage repairs carried out under proper authority to all properties where the war damage did not involve total loss.

Does my right hon. Friend not think this very unfair, because the owner, thinking that he would be able to let this property, had already spent extra money on it, and now the house has been compulsorily acquired and pulled down by the local authority? Does not my right hon. Friend think it is a total waste of money?

I think my hon. Friend will agree that is not really relevant to the responsibilities of the War Damage Commission, which are limited to making good the repairs caused by war damage and putting the property into the same state of repair as it was before.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what progress has been made in the negotiations for a European Free Trade Area.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make a statement on the Paymaster-General's recent visit to Paris and his discussions on the Free Trade Area proposals; what objections were raised by the French Government; what are Her Majesty's Government's reactions to those objections; and what further developments can be expected from the proposals.

There is nothing I can usefully add to the answer my right hon. Friend the Paymaster-General gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Louth (Mr. Osborne) on 8th July, except that a meeting of the Inter-Governmental Committee has been arranged for 24th and 25th July under my right hon. Friend's chairmanship.

As British industry has been kept in uncertainty about this for a long time, can we at least have a statement before the Recess, or can the Chancellor tell us what developments he expects in the autumn?

I think we must wait and see how the meeting this week and the O.E.E.C. meeting next week work out.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what the cost would be of exempting owner-occupiers of dwellings with a net annual value not exceeding £60 from the payment of Income Tax under Schedule A.

About £29 million in a full year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, if it is still the policy of the Government to encourage a property-owning democracy, the exemptions suggested in this Question would be very welcome? Will he also bear in mind that it may not cost as much as £29 million because many of these owner-occupiers have an income which is so low that they do not pay Income Tax at the full standard rate of 8s. 6d.?

I could not quite hear what the hon. Gentleman said, but the point he mentioned at the end of his supplementary question has been taken into account.

But is the figure the right hon. Gentleman has given a gross figure without consideration of maintenance claims for repairs, which must considerably reduce the figure he has given?

To the best of my knowledge, it is an estimate of the net result.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that all members of banks staff associations are asking for the closing of banks on Saturday, 27th December, in view of the fact that the Christmas holiday is Thursday and Friday this year; and if he will give sympathetic consideration to this request that he should recommend that that day be proclaimed a bank holiday.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answers which I gave to the hon. Members for Nottingham, North (Mr. J. Harrison) and Crosby (Mr. Page) on 15th July.

I have read that reply. Is the Minister aware that he does not appear to understand what the situation is? This is not a question of a bank holiday but of the bank staffs asking for the banks to be closed on Saturday. Is he aware that bank employees feel that because the shops will be closed on Christmas Day and on the Friday there will be very little to do and that money will be wasted if the staffs have to work on the Saturday?

As a proclamation is necessary for the banks to be closed, will he reconsider the matter to see whether it is not possible to make some arrangement for the banks only to be closed on the Saturday, since the employees feel that even if they do go to the banks there will not be any work for them to do?

The only thing I can consider is whether there is a case for a full bank holiday. I believe that it would not be in the general interest to have a bank holiday on the Saturday. Any other arrangement would be a matter for consideration between the banks and their staffs.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what relative priority Her Majesty's Government have assigned for the future as between the principle of giving an improved pension to servants of Her Majesty, having regard to the decline in purchasing power of the £ sterling during their period of service, and of giving any improvement to pensioners under the National Insurance Scheme.

The Government's aim is to help all pensioners by overcoming inflation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that servants of Her Majesty were paid rather less than the ordinary rates ruling at the time by reason of the promise that a generous pension was coming, so that not only have they suffered by the pension being diminished by inflation, but they have seen the outside community now granted comparably high pension rates? Is that not doubly unfair to ex-Service pensioners?

As my hon. Friend knows, the principle behind the various pension increases has been that increases can be given only in exceptional circumstances where there is real hardship. The last increase about two and a quarter years ago was on a fairly generous scale.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to protect the £ sterling as a result of Her Majesty's Government's policy in the Middle East.

The gold and dollar reserves at the end of June amounted to £1,099 million, £249 million more than at the corresponding date a year ago, and the highest level for over six years. Taking account of the extra support available to the reserves, if deemed necessary, under the stand-by arrangements with the International Monetary Fund and the United States Export/Import Bank, I do not consider that any special action is needed.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that something has happened in the world since the end of June? Is he not aware that last Friday The Times stated that sterling had declined following the landing of British troops in Jordan? Did he warn the Government that that was likely to be the effect? Is he not aware that the Stock Exchange has been very depressed and has only just cheered up following Mr. Khrushchev's letter? Is the right hon. Gentleman relying on Mr. Khrushchev to save the £?

I can reply briefly by saying that sterling has been behaving very well, as I expected it would, reflecting, as it does, the strong sterling position.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the fact that the National Playing Fields Association and the Walker Industrial Trust have already promised to contribute part of the funds needed for the reconstruction of the Oakengates Recreation Ground, when he proposes to grant loan sanction to the Oakengates Urban District Council to obtain the balance needed.

My right hon. Friend regrets that he cannot sanction a loan for this purpose at the present time. He will, however, be willing to reconsider the matter at a later date.

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind reply. When does he intend to re-examine the position—in three months, or six months?

All these matters which come within the ambit of miscellaneous expenditure are under constant reexamination. Having regard to our financial position, we should be perfectly prepared to look at it again in about six months.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what grants he has made and the purposes for which they were made to the Cheadle rural district area from 1945 to 1958.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank the Parliamentary Secretary for that reply. Where there are beauty spots in the areas of local authorities with a small population of only a few hundreds which may be increased to thousands at weekends, does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that there is some case for a special review by the Government with a view to increasing grants for providing sewerage and water facilities? Will he consider that, or is anything already being done about the matter?

That is primarily a matter for local authorities, as the hon. Member knows, but I can tell him that during the last six years grants to the tune of about £80,000 for water and sewerage have been paid to this authority.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will give a report on the pollution and condition of the River Hamps in the Waterhouses area, Leek, Staffordshire; and whether, in view of the outbreak of poliomyelitis there, he will urge that major sanitation and water schemes be developed in these villages.

Experience in this area and elsewhere has failed to establish a relationship between river pollution, sewage treatment and the incidence of poliomyelitis. My right hon. Friend will, however, be glad to consider any schemes for water supply or sewerage that the authority may wish to put forward on general public health grounds.

Does the Minister take into account the applications of village schools, and does he co-operate with the Ministry of Education in areas like this which still have very primitive sanitation for the schools?

Yes, my right hon. Friend is perfectly prepared to co-operate with any other local government departments, but the criterion is public health.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how streams and springs have been tested for pollution in the Waterhouses area, Leek, since the outbreak of poliomyelitis.

The River Hamps is tested periodically by the Trent River Board, but the board's tests do not cover the bacterial content of the water. I understand that bacterial tests made on a well and a stream by the medical officer of health have shown no evidence of the presence of the poliomyelitis virus.

Would the hon. Gentleman consider issuing a statement from time to time about the condition of rivers in this area, and will he impress upon local authorities the need for them to use their powers under river pollution legislation so that river pollution no longer continues at its present rate?

This is fundamentally a matter for local authorities, as the hon. Member knows. I reiterate that any local authority which considers that schemes of this sort are necessary on grounds of public health will have its schemes favourably considered by my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware that the present standard for the construction of service roads on housing estates, especially in rural areas, is unnecessarily expensive; and if he will give favourable consideration to the introduction of a standard that will be less costly although paying due regard to the durability and appearance of the roads.

The standard of construction normally depends on what the local highway authority requires before agreeing to take over an estate road, and my right hon. Friend has no power to prescribe standards. If the hon. Member has any particular difficulty in mind, perhaps he would let me know.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the uncertainty over the interpretation of subsection (2) of Section 73 of the Public Health Act, 1936, as a result of which many retail shopkeepers are charged for the collection of refuse although no manufacturing process is carried on upon their premises; and if he will introduce amending legislation to clarify the position.

I agree that the interpretation of the term "trade refuse" in Section 73 of the Public Health Act, 1936, sometimes causes difficulty. The Section provides, however, that any question which arises may be determined by a court of summary jurisdiction. In view of this and of the considerable body of case law on the subject, my right hon. Friend does not think that amending legislation is called for.

I am advised that there is no authority for the view that charges may be made only for the collection of refuse resulting from manufacturing processes.

Is my right hon. Friend prepared to take the view that a circular to local authorities might help to clear up some misunderstandings?

No, Sir. I think that the obligation which rests upon local authorities under this Statute is fairly clear. If any shopkeeper or manufacturer feels aggrieved, he has his remedy in the courts.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps he has taken to advise shopkeepers selling wrapped sweets, ice-cream, and other packages, the outer wrappings of which are often removed in or near shop premises, that they should provide litter bins in a prominent position in order to help in the campaign against litter.

My right hon. Friend has not approached shopkeepers on this matter. Litter bins are already provided at some shops, and in at least one case they are supplied by the makers of ice cream. I hope this good example will be widely followed.

Would not the Minister consider sending a circular to these shopkeepers so as to encourage the many to follow the example of the few and provide litter bins at points where litter is created?

In the first place, it might be better to tackle this matter from the angle of the manufacturers than that the shopkeepers, who rather naturally take the view that it is something for the local authorities themselves to consider. This is what we are doing, in co-operation with the "Keep Britain Tidy" group. I am obliged to the hon. Lady for her suggestion.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether his attention has been called to the publication, "The Overspill Problem in the West Midlands," by the Midlands New Towns Society, a copy of which has been sent to him; if he is aware that 80,000 houses will need to be constructed outside the West Midlands conurbation in the next 20 years, requiring the designation and construction of at least two new towns; what steps he will take to facilitate the designation and construction of such new towns; and if he will make a statement.

I have seen this publication, and I agree that there is a serious problem. The figure of 80,000, which I believe to be on the high side, includes, according to the booklet, many houses for which sites are likely to be found under overspill arrangements already in contemplation. Many more will no doubt be built by private enterprise. I am not convinced that the remainder of the problem cannot be solved within the framework of local government. I have accordingly told the Birmingham City Council that the Government are not prepared to build a new town under the New Towns Act, 1946, and that if the council considers a scheme on the scale of a new town to be necessary it should consider undertaking it itself.

While appreciating that the figure of 80,000 houses includes houses for which sites may be found in co-operation with other local authorities, is it not the case that there is a residual number of houses for which no such sites can be found and that new towns will be needed if those houses are to be built? Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the enormity of the problem and what a solution to it would mean in terms of human happiness for thousands of people? Is he further aware that the General Purposes Committee of the Birmingham City Council has pronounced in favour of trying to extend the city's boundaries, but that fringe expansion is not accepted by any intelligent opinion today?

While always welcoming this sort of study into housing problems, undertaken by people on the spot, I cannot necessarily accept all the figures in the booklet. I have told Birmingham City Council that, in my view, this serious problem is one which can be solved by ordinary local government methods, and I have asked the council to work out a programme and to let me have it. I have just received a further letter from the council on which I prefer not to comment at this stage.

Is the Minister aware—I know that he is—that the application list in Birmingham is now reaching 70,000 and that by his action in not allowing lower interest rates for the Public Works Loan Board—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."]—if the hon Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) will shut his mouth I will carry on—he is preventing Birmingham from dealing with its housing problem as it should, and that it also means, as my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mr Moss) pointed out, an extension of the boundary of the city, which is already far too large?

This is a question of overspill, and I have invited Birmingham Corporation to submit to me its plans for coping with it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is a question which concerns not only Birmingham but a large number of other towns outside? Will he look at this matter seriously and not simply say that somebody is sending in something at some time when he will do something about it?

I hope it is not a matter of somebody sending me something sometime. I hope that Birmingham Corporation will answer the question I have put to it.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether his attention has been drawn to a recent decision of the Tamworth Borough Council to postpone the construction of 944 dwellings, and the roads and sewers involved, pending a reduction of the Public Works Loan Board rate to five per cent.; whether he is aware that the overspill agreement of the Borough with Birmingham Corporation is thus jeopardised; and what proposals he has in mind to assist the borough council in this instance.

I am aware of this decision, but it does not necessarily jeopardise the carrying out of the overspill agreement. At a meeting earlier this year when I met representatives of Staffordshire authorities (including Tamworth Borough Council) and the Birmingham Corporation, I suggested that authorities who felt unable to make an immediate start on their overspill programme should meanwhile press on with preparing their plans.

In view of the right hon. Gentleman's Answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mr. Moss), is he aware that at present there is a stalemate between Birmingham Corporation and, for instance—and I emphasise those words—the Borough of Tamworth? Is he aware that the failure to start this large programme of houses, a very large programme for a relatively small town, is caused by the fear that actuarially speaking there is an accruing indebtedness of the borough which it will not be able to face? Is it not most important that urgent attention should be given to this problem by the Minister to try to sort out the differences between Birmingham Corporation and Tamworth?

I am certainly ready to use my good offices in any direction. This is a large scheme which was to be spread over some seven years. I appreciate that Tamworth Borough Council is doubtful about going forward with it at present rates of interest. Nevertheless, I hope that it will continue its discussions with Birmingham and that a practical outcome will follow.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of the anxiety felt in Tamworth that the Corporation of Birmingham does not appear to be aware of the need to assist in the provision of industry for the overspill population coming to Tamworth under the present plan; and what advice the Regional Board of Industry has therefore given to the borough of Tamworth in the matter of industrial development for Tamworth which is required for the working population which will be available under the overspill scheme agreed between the borough of Tamworth and Birmingham Corporation.

I am not aware of anxiety in Tamworth on this score, and so far as I know the Regional Board for Industry has not been asked to advise. Birmingham Corporation and the councils of the adjoining counties have made arrangements for bringing to the notice of industrialists the opportunities which exist for moving to the areas, including Tamworth, where overspill from Birmingham is to be received.

If the right hon. Gentleman is not aware of local anxiety, may I ask him to wake up his Department so that he is properly informed? It is apparent from reports in local newspapers in the last month or so that there is this anxiety. If the Regional Board for Industry has not offered him advice, why not? There is at present an agreement between the Corporation of Birmingham and Tamworth for the encouragement of the decanting of industry to the overspill areas, but no such plans have yet been put into operation and there is fear as to what will be done with the incoming overspill population?

I am ready to help in any way I can, and so, I am sure, is my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, but I must inform the hon. Member that my Department has had no representations from Tamworth in the matter of industry; nor has the Regional Board for Industry heard anything. If he likes to pursue the matter, I hope that he will be able to provide me with further information.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs why an appeal against an increase of assessment from £27 to £38 gross was dismissed notwithstanding that the house in question, No. 66, King Street, Plymouth, was deemed unfit for human habitation.

Local valuation courts are independent tribunals. I cannot inquire into their decisions. There is a right of appeal against them to the Lands Tribunal.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there has been an appeal but that the decision that the rates should be paid at the higher rate was upheld? Does he not think this is extremely unfair, since this house has been compulsorily acquired as being unfit for human habitation?

This Question refers to the valuation for rating, and it would be quite wrong for me to express any opinion on a decision of a rating valuation court which is set up by Statute so as to be quite independent of the Government. As I pointed out to my hon. Friend, there is a right of appeal from the local valuation court to the Lands Tribunal.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the fact that No. 66, King Street, Plymouth, was assessed for rates of £38 gross, upon what basis it was valued for compulsory acquisition at £75.

Compensation was assessed on the normal statutory basis for a house unfit for human habitation—that is, on the value of the site alone. The assessment of the property for rating purposes could have no bearing on this.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the owner of this house still has a mortgage outstanding of £211? Will he introduce legislation to ensure that the valuation of property for the purpose of local taxes is placed on the same basis as the valuation when property is compulsorily acquired by a rating authority?

I realise that this is a hard case, and I will consider all its implications. At the same time, my hon. Friend must realise that these apparent anomalies which have emerged have been brought about simply by application of the existing law and not by my intervention.

In view of the very unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what steps he will take by grant or otherwise to facilitate the construction of houses and to expedite slum clearance in the County Borough of Sunderland.

In common with all other housing authorities, Sunderland County Borough Council is entitled to the slum clearance subsidy of £22 1s. per house, payable for sixty years. The council has a planned programme of slum clearance, and I have taken this into account in considering the number of houses that can be put into contract this year. I am proposing to review the position later in the year.

While the last few words of the Minister's statement are hopeful, does he appreciate that we have some of the worst slums in the country and that the local authority is convinced that it can build at least 1,000 houses, yet the Minister is giving it consent to build only 750?

I appreciate that Sunderland has a slum clearance problem, but I should like to get the figures right. I have approved that the authority should start 882 houses in 1958, in addition to those which had been approved earlier but which had not yet been started. The authority should therefore be able to start this year about as many as it has done in the last four years, and I have assured the hon. Member that later in the year I will look at the matter again.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what progress he has to report concerning the inquiry into the need for measures for controlling the rents of plots on caravan sites and security of tenure for residents on such sites, which he promised in response to the memorandum submitted by the Brierley Hill Urban District Council.

The council was told that its suggestions had been noted, along with other proposals for altering the law on caravan sites, but that there was no early prospect of amending legislation. This remains the position.

The Minister will realise that caravan sites are not a temporary problem. Many people prefer them to houses, and it is important that we should get decent conditions for these people. Can he promise legislation next Session?

I am afraid that I cannot promise legislation on behalf of my right hon. Friend in this matter next Session. As the hon. Member knows, this is a very contentious subject indeed, and it may be that other matters will require precedence.

Ought not the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friend to do something about it? So long as there is insufficient housing in the large towns people have to go to caravans. Many of them like it; others do not.

There may still be an insufficiency of houses, but that insufficiency is nothing like what is was years ago.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what opportunities are provided for Africans in Nigeria to train for the civil and medical services in preparation for the independence of their territory.

A great many pre-service and in-service training schemes are being operated by all the Nigerian Governments to train Africans for posts at all levels in the public service.

In view of the fact that Nigeria is likely to receive its independence within two years, and also of the great historic importance of this as the largest remaining British Colony, will the Under-Secretary take particular steps with the Governments of the three Regions to see that they have a staff which will be able to administer the country when that independence is gained?

I am sure that all the Governments in Nigeria appreciate the need for this and are doing everything they can.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what official discussions he has had with the Governor of Gambia during his visit to London for a revision of the Constitution of Gambia.

The former Governor, Sir Percy Wyn-Harris, left the Colony on retirement in April. The new Governor, Sir Edward Windley, arrived in the Gambia last month. Before he left, I naturally discussed with him the problems of the country.

Would it be possible for the right hon. Gentleman to indicate to the House whether proposals are now being made for a revision of the Constitution with a view to the advance towards self-government?

The people of Gambia have many other interests, apart from constitutional ones, and I think that the new Governor should be allowed to look round before he reports to me on all matters.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what objections have been received from the Buganda Government to the Buganda Courts Ordinance; and what action the Uganda Government intend to take to resolve these differences.

The Kabaka's Government have objected to clauses in the draft Buganda Courts Bill which would separate the Kabaka and two Buganda Ministers from functions relating to the courts, remove existing anomalies about concurrent jurisdiction by Protectorate and Buganda courts and require the submission of certain returns about Buganda court cases to the High Court and Inspecting Officers. Negotiations are still continuing with the Kabaka's Government in the hope that they may be persuaded to withdraw the objections they have raised.

I thank the Secretary of State for that reply. Can he assure the House that Buganda will not be allowed to have separate treatment from the rest of the Protectorate and that he will arrange for the law to apply to the Protectorate as a whole, with no special treatment for Buganda?

As the hon. Member knows, under the Buganda Agreement of 1955—which had a general welcome in the House—amendments of a certain kind have to be agreed with the Kabaka's Government.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why the passport of Mr. Ignatius Musazi, President of the Uganda National Congress, was seized as he was about to leave Entebbe for a conference in Stockholm; and whether he will take steps to secure freedom of travel for members of the Legislative Councils of Uganda and Kenya.

Mr. Musazi's passport was retained after coming properly into the possession of the local authorities. This is a matter within the discretion of the local authorities and it is not the practice to disclose reasons in such cases.

Members of the Legislative Councils of Uganda and Kenya are allowed the same freedom of travel as other members of the public, though they would normally out of courtesy ask leave of the Governor to be absent from the territory.

Will the Colonial Secretary please intervene in this case? Is he aware that Mr. Musazi is a leading and generally respected politician in Uganda, and that it undermines the dignity of a Parliamentary institution for a Council member to be treated in this way?

No, Sir.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House the nature of the conference at Stockholm that this gentleman's presence would so much infect?

It was a conference sponsored by a Communist-front organisation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that both the gentlemen referred to in the last two Questions are distinguished African leaders; that one of them is a professing Christian who built a Christian church at his own expense on the location; that one of them is over 90 years of age? What is the good of him talking about the Declaration of Human Rights at Strasbourg and his predecessor saying it is going to be applied to the Colonial Territories if we have these crimes on our conscience and this—[Laughter.] I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he agrees with his colleagues who laugh when we talk about imprisonment for seven years without a trial being a crime, and, if so, what quarrel he has with Khrushchev?

I have nothing to add to the quite careful answers I have made to both the Questions I have been asked.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why he has refused to receive a delegation from the Representative Members Organisation of the Uganda Legislative Council regarding their request for an increase of the number of representative seats on the Council.

In my replies to the requests of the Representative Members Organisation, I explained that I could see no point in a delegation coming to the United Kingdom to pursue this matter, which had already been fully and directly submitted to me, and on which I had indicated my decision through the Governor.

Is the Colonial Secretary aware that Mrs. Saben, the present chairman of the Representative Members Organisation, did not see him in her capacity as chairman? In view of the fact that all the representative members, representing all communities, are making this request, will he reconsider the matter?

It is true that Mrs. Saben, whom I was glad to see, came to see me in her personal capacity. But, on the subject of this appeal, I have made my position quite clear since last October, and I am not prepared to consider piecemeal changes in the constitution virtually on the eve of an election.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what further progress has been made with legislation in Hong Kong for the control of working hours.

Consideration is proceeding in Hong Kong in consultation with my Assistant Labour Adviser.

As in the recent cotton debate there was a demand for legislation by hon. Members on both sides of the House, can the Minister assure us that Hong Kong will press on with this as rapidly as possible?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he has now received the report on working hours in Hong Kong cotton mills which he requested from the Governor nine weeks ago; and if he will make a statement on its contents.

Yes, Sir; but as my Assistant Labour Adviser is at present in Hong Kong discussing this report as well as the proposed Employment Bill, I should prefer to make a comprehensive statement when she has returned.

I welcome the Colonial Secretary's Answer, but what is to prevent immediate legislation requiring at least one rest day a week for women and girls? Surely that is not too much to ask, when the intolerable hours are causing so much suffering both in Hong Kong and Lancashire?

Details of proposed legislation are now being worked out. They will then have to be submitted to the Labour Advisory Board. As I told the right hon. Gentleman, that is being pressed on with vigour.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when and to what level African school fees have been raised in the Kiambu area of Kenya.

Except in two locations, where they were lowered for primary education, fees in African primary schools and intermediate grant-aided schools in the Kiambu district were raised on 1st January this year. The new fees are those given in my right hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member on 29th April. Fees in Government schools have not been raised.

In view of the fact that, according to the reply to which the hon. Member has referred, the average monthly wage of Africans on European farms is 62s. and on African farms considerably less, does not the hon. Member agree that the time has come to abolish these fees rather than to consider increasing them in any direction? Even 5s. a month in school fees is an intolerable burden upon a wage of that level.

The fees were raised following the recommendation of the District Education Board and at the request of the African District Council.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if his attention has been drawn to the reference by the Chief Secretary in the Legislative Council of Kenya to the possibility of reorganising official visiting at Lokitaung Prison; and if he will make a statement on future policy.

The Chief Secretary gave an assurance that the Government would do everything possible to strengthen the system of visiting justices, a system which is and has been applied to this prison. I am sure that this is a sound policy.

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean by that reply that the Government are now willing to consider appointing visiting justices other than provincial and district officials?

No. I explained to the hon. Lady during the Adjournment debate on 16th June that I was not prepared to accept the charge that visiting officials were incapable of arriving at a fair conclusion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies on what grounds ex-senior Chief Koinange is kept in detention in Kenya.

I would refer the hon. Member to my hon. Friend's reply to the hon. Member for Wednesbury (Mr. Stonehouse) on 15th July.

In view of the fact that this man is over 90 years of age, is infirm, has been acquitted, has been kept in detention without trial and is now under house arrest, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will reconsider this very vindictive treatment of a man whom many of us know and none of us believes is guilty of any advocacy of violence?

I cannot, on behalf of the British Government or the Government of Kenya, accept what the hon. Gentleman said at the end of his supplementary question. This must be a matter to be settled by the Governor of Kenya. Acquittal on a murder charge does not carry with it the assumption that a man is not a threat to public order.

In view of the fact that this man is over 90 years of age, will the right hon. Gentleman intervene in this case and see that he is released and allowed to return to his home? In what possible way can a man of this age be a threat to public order?

I think the hon. Gentleman knows very well that ex-Chief Koinange has very considerable influence. With the Kikuyu, as with many other peoples, influence increases with age. I am not prepared to disregard the present situation in the Kiambu district or the advice of the Governor.

In view of that unsatisfactory reply, Mr. Speaker, I will raise this matter on the Adjournment as soon as you permit me to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the progress of negotiations regarding the future of Cyprus.

At this stage there is nothing I can add to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) on 8th July

In view of the tragic deterioration of the position in Cyprus, cannot the right hon. Gentleman give the House some more hopeful information than that? Are Her Majesty's Government content to reap the bitter harvest of Tory policy in Cyprus? Can he bring no word of healing or help to this tragic country?

I think the hon. Lady knows very well that, in the view of Her Majesty's Government and of a vast number of people, the policy that we announced last month provides the one hopeful chance of success.

Will the Colonial Secretary make it clear that it is the view of everyone in this country that the only hopeful basis for this island is that Greeks and Turks should stop shooting at each other and at British soldiers? Will not he take up the initiative of Archbishop Makarios, who has himself called for a cessation of violence? [HON. MEMBERS: "When?"] This is too serious a matter for quips. Will not he invite the Turkish and Greek Prime Ministers to take part in a joint appeal so that discussions may proceed on the basis of the plan which the Government have put forward?

I entirely endorse what the hon. Member has said as to the way in which the troubles in Cyprus may be brought to an end and the need for Greeks and Turks to stop attacking each other and to stop attacking British security forces. As to the steps being taken to carry forward the policy announced by my right hon. Friend, I do not think that I can profitably add now to what I have already said.

Are the Government in touch with the Greek and Turkish Prime Ministers with a view to carrying discussions on to the next stage?

I do not think that it would be helpful to give any further details now.

In view of the fact that the last news from Cyprus was of 14 people killed during this weekend, will not the right hon. Gentleman consult the Prime Minister to see whether the Prime Minister will seek the co-operation of the Turkish and Greek Prime Ministers to make an appeal—in which hon. Members on both sides of the House would join—for the people of Cyprus to stop this violence?

I am always glad to take up any suggestion made by the right hon. Gentleman in regard to the possibilities of bringing to an end the evil murders now continuing.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the procedure in Cyprus for securing the safe custody of prisoners convicted of terrorist and other crimes who are transferred to mental and other hospitals for treatment.

There is a special ward at the Nicosia General Hospital for prisoners and detainees. The prison staff and the police are responsible for security inside the hospital: there is a United Kingdom warder permanently on duty outside the ward. There is also a military guard at the hospital. Up to the present there have been no special security arrangements at the Mental Hospital.

Does not my hon. Friend think that there should be special security precautions, since a number of dangerous prisoners have escaped when they have been transferred to hospital?

I am sure my hon. Friend will realise that the security forces find the provision of a static guard a severe strain on their resources. The question of the provision of a guard at the Mental Hospital will have to be considered.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies who were the medical authorities on whose certificate Antonis Procopiou Salamento, who was sentenced to life imprisonment, was transferred to the Nicosia Mental Hospital in Cyprus, from which he escaped on 1st June, 1958.

The medical authorities concerned were the prison medical officer and the Government mental specialist.