asked the Paymaster-General whether he is aware of the considerable discrepancy for certain steel material between export prices and prices charged United Kingdom customers, and that steel exports from this country are thereby being jeopardised; and what action he proposes to take to remedy this.

I am informed that, generally speaking, discrepancies between internal and external prices are not considerable. If the hon. Member 'has it in mind that export prices are generally higher than internal prices and that exports are thereby being jeopardised, his information is not correct. The export prices obtainable for the products of the continuous strip mills have until recently tended to be rather above internal prices, but these mills are working close to maximum capacity, and exports have been rising.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that it is extremely difficult to get up-to-date information about the prices ruling, other than through trade sources? Is he aware that, for instance, a few weeks ago a very large order by China for drum steel, which was not in any way infringing the strategic lists or anything of that sort, was lost to this country since the only competitive price available was £53 10s. a ton and the order went to the Continent for prices varying between £45 and £47 a ton? Is he further aware that this is a continuing situation which deserves urgent attention?

If the hon. Gentleman will give me particulars of any individual orders of that sort I will, of course, look into them.

asked the Paymaster-General, in view of the fact that steel producers in the United Kingdom are quoting the same export prices for certain lines, whether he is satisfied that export steel prices from the United Kingdom are subject to normal competitive variation; and if he will make a statement.

The Iron and Steel Board has the general duty of reviewing the export prices of iron and steel under competitive conditions and I am informed that the Board is broadly satisfied.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary mean by that reply that he is satisfied that there is competition in offering prices for steel? Is he aware that recently a circular was issued to six companies to furnish prices for export and that those six companies furnished the same price and the orders were lost?

If there is evidence of any restrictive agreement of that sort it would have to be registered, but that is not a matter for my Department.

If the facts quoted by my hon. Friend are correct, would not the Minister agree that while there may be good reason if there is no competition in price in meeting inland demand, if there is no competition in meeting export demand that is a very serious situation?

I have already said that if I am given particulars of any order I will look into it. Obviously, in a vast industry of this kind I cannot have the particulars of every transaction at my fingertips. If the hon. Gentleman will write to me I will look into the matter.

asked the Paymaster-General if he is satisfied, in view of the recent pipeline burst at the Padworth petroleum installation and the subsequent pollution of the River Kennet, that proper inspection of the pipeline is carried out frequently enough; and what was the estimated life of the installation when it was constructed under Government auspices in 1941.

The life of older pipelines such as those near the River Kennet depends upon local geological conditions and the physical stresses to which they are subjected. They are inspected, serviced and replaced as conditions demand. When in actual use they are regularly patrolled. Although these arrangements have in general proved satisfactory, I am having them reviewed in the light of the incident referred to.

Does my hon. Friend recall that there have been earlier instances of leakages from this petroleum pipeline which have caused serious trouble locally? Can he tell me how often in recent years the pipeline has been tested, to whom reports were made, and whether any action has been taken by his Department on these reports?

These are agency arrangements, but if my hon. Friend will get in touch with me I may be able to give him the details for which he asks.

asked the Paymaster-General what Government-sponsored or Government-aided research organisations conduct research into the utilisation of United Kingdom fuel resources.

The British Coal Utilisation Research Association, the British Coke Research Association, the Electrical Research Association, the Coal Tar Research Association, and several universities.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary satisfied that the steps which have been taken recently are sufficient to secure the full co-ordination of these research activities?

I think so, yes.

asked the Pay master-General what general direction he has given to the Central Electricity Generating Board to close old coal-fired power stations.

None, Sir.

If this does come about, will the Parliamentary Secretary support the refitting of old power stations, whereby efficiency could be increased considerably, and far above the efficiency of nuclear power stations?

I think that is a very wide question.

asked the Paymaster-General what period of supply the £6,002,600 stock of petroleum products mentioned in the Civil Supplementary Estimates is expected to cover.

This oil is an addition to the reserves which have long been held by the Government for use in an emergency. The period they cover will depend on the conditions obtaining at any time they may have to be called upon.

Is it not a fact that this is bound to have a limited life, and, in these circumstances, does it not emphasise the folly of placing undue dependence on imported fuel?

I do not think that the one follows from the other at all. It may well be wise to use oil, and, if it is wise to use oil, it may be wise to have some of it in reserve.

Has this money already been spent?

The Estimates have just been presented to Parliament. It has not yet all been spent, naturally.

asked the Paymaster-General whether he will make a statement concerning contract arrangements for storage of the petroleum products reserves provided for in the Civil Supplementary Estimates of his Department.

The products in question will be stored in existing Government installations, managed by agent companies on a fee basis.

Would my hon. Friend make it abundantly clear that this is a strategic reserve and that it is not in any way, as has been suggested from the other side of the House, a subsidy to the oil companies?

Quite. We want all the oil we can pay for for storing in this country.

asked the Paymaster-General what is the term of office of Mr. A. G. Stewart, a member of the Iron and Steel Board; and when that term of office expires.

Mr. Stewart was reappointed part-time member on 19th October, 1958, and his present term of office expires on 31st May, 1960.

While not contesting the absolute right of Mr. Stewart as a private individual to express what opinions he likes on any subject, is it desirable that a member of the Iron and Steel Board should engage in any violent political controversy affecting the future of an industry for which the Board is responsible? Is it, not a fact also that it is the duty of the Board to serve the interests of all Governments, of all shades of political opinion, present and future?

That is rather what Mr. Stewart is doing. It is not his fault that violent controversy his arisen.

Would not the Parliamentary Secretary and his colleagues take strong exception if a member of the Iron and Steel Board came out and demanded as an urgent necessity the renationalisation of the industry? Is it not an accepted principle by all Governments that members of Boards that control, fully or partially, any industry should refrain from taking a leading part in advocating changes in the status of any industry?

That is precisely what Mr. Stewart has been doing. It is hon. Members opposite who have been advocating the change. He is very satisfied with the work the Government put him there to do.

Would the hon. Gentleman answer the main part of the question? What would be his comment if a member of the Iron and Steel Board came out and made a campaign in favour of the renationalisation of the Iron and Steel Industry? Would he say it was right?

Not if he were appointed to a board whose job it was to carry on an unnationalised industry.

I think the Question is hypothetical.

asked the Paymaster-General what notifications have been given by iron and steel producers to the Iron and Steel Board, over the last 12 months, of decisions to close down production facilities, as required by the Iron and Steel Act, 1953.

During 1958, the Iron and Steel Board was informed of proposals to close three blast furnace plants, four steel works, eleven sheet and tin-plate handmills, one iron ore mine, three iron foundries, a bar mill and a rod mill.

Will the hon. Gentleman undertake to let hon. Members have further details of these closures so that the House will be fully informed about what is really happening in the iron and steel industry?

I will consider that.

asked the Paymaster-General if the Minister of Power will call a conference of the heads of the coal, gas, and electricity undertakings to work out plans for closer co-operation.

No, Sir. My noble Friend is in constant touch with the nationalised industries on such matters.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary agree that the National Coal Board should be given some idea of the amount of coal which is likely to be required by the electricity and gas industries within the next five years, and does he not feel that it is essential that the heads of these industries should be called together from time to time to work out a co-ordinated fuel policy?

As I have said, my noble Friend is in constant touch with these gentlemen, who are in constant touch with one another, but it does not follow that all put together can discover how much coal will be used five years ahead; life would be very much simpler if we could.

asked the Paymaster-General what machinery he has set up to co-ordinate the policies of the National Coal Board, the Electricity Board and the Gas Board.

The necessary machinery already exists in the form of the Ministry of Power.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary satisfied with the present arrangements? Does he not think that, in the interests of a balanced fuel policy, it is time to set up machinery to integrate and co-ordinate the policies of the three Departments?

I do not think that adding more machinery would help. Whatever the views of hon. Gentlemen on either side of the House, the Ministry of Power does its job. That is part of its responsibility. If it did not do it, it would not do it any better by having another bit of machinery.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary give an undertaking that the Ministry of Power will carry out its undertakings and responsibilities in this matter?

Indeed, yes. We are constantly in touch with the heads of these three industries.

A jolly good Parliamentary Secretary.

asked the Paymaster-General how many atomic power stations are now under construction and where; how many more are planned for commencement before 1965 and where; and what total capital cost and installed generating capacity is envisaged.

It is not expected that the nuclear power programme up till the end of 1966 will require more than 12–14 stations. Four of these are under, construction at Bradwell, Berkeley and Hinkley Point in England and at Hunterston in Scotland. Consent has been given for a further station at Trawsfynydd in Merioneth, and applications for consent to build stations at Dungeness in Kent and Sizewell in Suffolk have been submitted to my noble Friend.

The Electricity Authorities are looking for further sites for stations in the current programme, and I cannot say how many additional sites may be required before the end of 1965 for stations due to commission after 1966. As regards the last part of the question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the Appendix to the White Paper on Capital Investment in the coal, gas and electricity industries published in April, 1957.

Did my hon. Friend observe the demand made last week by the National Union of Mineworkers that two of these atomic power stations should be deferred indefinitely on account of the coal situation? Will my hon. Friend make it clear that it is the policy of his Department to resist these blandishments whether they come from King Canute or from King Coal?

That is the view of Her Majesty's Government.

Going back to the reply about the siting of these new nuclear power stations, may I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to be kind enough to look at the correspondence between Sir Anthony Eden and myself on the deplorable case of the selection of the Bradwell site, and to assure himself that there will be proper consultation with other Departments holding lands which may be suitable, but are no longer necessary to these Departments?

I am obliged to the hon. Member. I will look into the correspondence.

asked the Paymaster-General what percentage of the total inland fuel consumption was met by coal, and by oil, respectively, in 1958.

80 and 19.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that in 1938 93 per cent, of the inland fuel consumption was met by coal and that this drop of 13 per cent. means, in actual tonnage, about 20 million to 25 million tons? In view of that, will he not urge his noble Friend to put speed on in his investigations into the uses of coal otherwise than for fuel?

A great deal of research is going on in this direction. About half the amount of oil concerned here is in uses for which coal is not competitive. We cannot, for instance, drive a Ferguson tractor on coal.

asked the Paymaster-General, in view of the liklihood that further collieries will be closed, whether he will confer with other Government Departments with a view to the settlement of new industries in the areas affected.

My noble Friend will, of course, keep in close contact on the subject of pit closures with my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, who has the primary responsibility for settling new industries in the areas affected.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this belated conversion on the part of the Government will be welcomed by both sides of the House? May we take it that in future when any colliery closes this co-operation will take place between the respective Departments?

I do not know what the hon. Member means by "belated". I cannot remember any period when it was not customary and necessary for the right hon. Gentlemen at the Board of Trade and at the Ministry of Power to keep in close touch on these matters.

asked the Paymaster-General, in view of the redundancy among coalminers, what general directions he has given to the National Coal Board to ensure a proportionate reduction of its officials and staff.

None, Sir. I am informed by the Board that it hopes to reduce its non-industrial staff by 5 per cent. in 1959.

Is it a fact that this reduction is to take place by means of a process of halting recruitment? If so, does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that it is much less painful than the peremptory dismissal of miners? Is he aware that already there is a reduction of 26,000 men in the industry? When can we expect to see the figures of the Coal Board staff commensurate with the manual workers?

I am bound to say that that is primarily a matter for the Coal Board itself. I would point out that in proportion the cuts are very much greater—indeed, something like ten times the cuts being made in the miners.

asked the Paymaster-General what is the authorised strength of the Mines Inpectorate; and what is the present number on the establishment.

The authorised strength of the Mines Inspectorate, including specialist grades, is 187, and the present number on the establishment is 147.

May I ask the Parliamentary Secretary what is the real trouble about the recruitment of mines inspectors?

I think that is too wide a question to enter into in a supplementary question and answer. Perhaps on a more suitable occasion in a debate we could go into it.

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that it is highly important in this industry, in which the Inspectorate is an important aspect of safety in mines, that the establishment should be fully up to strength? I wondered whether it was not possible for the Parliamentary Secretary to give some indication of the attempts that are being made to recruit the necessary staff?

The right hon. Gentleman will be glad to know that recruitment has been overtaking wastage recently and that, since the date of these figures, I understand that of the 40 there are five candidates who have been offered posts, which, if they accept, is a reduction of 12½ per cent.

asked the Paymaster-General what general direction he has given to the National Coal Board to provide full pension rights to redundant mineworkers.

None, Sir.

May I ask whether the noble Lord the Minister of Power entered the negotiations for dealing with redundancy in the coalfields?

The Minister is responsible only, in relation to pensions matters, when it comes to approving agreements made between the National Coal Board and the National Union of Mineworkers. It is for them in the first place.

asked the Paymaster-General what diminution of domestic coal consumption occurred during the 12 months ended 31st January, 1959, compared with earlier years; what estimate of the reasons for this has been made by his Department; and to what extent this diminution is due to implementation of clean air policy.

Disposals to domestic consumers in the 12 months ended 31st January, 1959, were a million tons more than in the previous 12 months.

Does that Answer not dispel at once all the allegations made by representatives of the National Union of Mineworkers opposite that deliberate discrimination is being indulged in by Her Majesty's Government against the coal industry? Has my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary directed his Answer particularly against the hon. Member for Houghton-le-Spring (Mr. Blyton) who made that preposterous suggestion?

Does not the Answer indicate that the rationing of coal was kept on for far too long?

I am very glad to have the view of hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite that, in this case at least, they are in favour of getting rid of rationing. The excess demand due to derationing plays only a very small part. It was an odd thing that the previous year was one of the warmest for a very long time while last year was one of the coldest. That has a great effect on the amount of coal people want. Therefore, to ask how much coal we shall need in five years' time is not a very helpful exercise.

Hear, hear.

Is the Minister aware that we are not at all concerned with the private war which the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) is carrying on against the National Union of Mine-workers and that we still say that discrimination is exercised under the Clean Air Act against mechanically-stoked furnaces and in favour of oil furnaces.

Nonsense.

asked the Minister of Supply what steps he is taking to coordinate the requirements of the Armed Forces for helicopters so as to avoid duplication and overlapping in production.

New requirements for helicopters are formulated by means of close consultation between the Service Departments and the Ministry of Supply. Development and production rests with the Ministry of Supply.

That is exactly the point. Since there are two different types of order for the Services, we are getting two different types of development. Cannot the Parliamentary Secretary at least say that he is aware of the danger of unnecessary duplication?

I am indeed aware of that danger, but responsibility for consultation with the Service Departments rests with the initiating Department in the first place, while policy is the responsibility of the Ministry of Defence.

asked the Minister of Supply what consideration is being given to the need for an ultra-long-range military transport aircraft.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence has already announced our intention to order the Short Britannic 3 as a strategic freighter for Transport Command.

As I specifically mentioned ultra-long-range transport in my Question, may I ask whether it is not time that the Ministry of Supply were applying its mind to this matter in view of the recurring difficulties we are having in areas where we have intermediate bases and where the danger is? If we want ultra-long-range aircraft, now is the time when something should be done about it?

This factor and all other relevant factors were taken into account in arriving at the decision to order the Britannic, which meets the prospective needs of the Services in the long-range category. I have no knowledge of any new requirements.

Will the Minister confirm that, while it is true that the Services are not agreed on any one aeroplane, they were all agreed that the Britannic 3 was one that they did not want?

I cannot confirm that.

asked the Minister of Supply by what combination of engine and airframe design the TSR2 is given the ability to operate from airfields of moderate length and light construction.

High engine thrust coupled with advanced wing design and a special undercarriage will give the required ability to operate from small airfields of light construction.

Is the Minister aware that we should break down the unnecessary security screen around this aircraft so that overseas countries, who are potential customers, could realise the unique combination of design and skill in this aircraft which can do a very remarkable job indeed?

I agree that security should not be allowed to obstruct to friends commercial possibilities, or indeed military possibilities, of an aircraft of this advanced design. The question of security for the Services is not the responsibility of my right hon. Friend.

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that twice in the course of two Answers he has thrown responsibility back on the Service Departments? There may be a lot of truth in what he says, but surely he is responsible for the future of our aircraft industry and should take this matter up with the Service Departments?

I certainly will. I shall do anything I can to give effect to what the hon. Gentleman has suggested, consistent with the needs of security generally.

asked the Minister of Health what is the amount of food which has been condemned at the ports during the year 1958 because of radioactivity.

So far as I am aware, none; imported food is not examined at the ports for radioactivity.

In view of modern developments and the possibility that food may be contaminated by radioactivity, is it not time that the Ministry of Health looked at the problem of recording how much food contamination by radioactivity there has been?

We are always having this matter under consideration, but there is no reason to think that imported food is more highly contaminated by radioactive fall-out than food produced in the United Kingdom, which is extensively monitored.

Where did the hon. Gentleman obtain that information? Is it not a fact that certain tea was discovered on testing to be radioactive?

I am not conversant with the situation about tea. In reply to the specific question about advice and information, I have to tell the right hon. Lady that the monitoring programme is supervised by a special Sub-Committee of the Joint Committee of the Agricultural and Medical Research Councils and the Development Commission on Biological (non-medical) Problems of Nuclear Physics.

asked the Minister of Health what organisations he is consulting on the question of a chiropody service.

I am not at persent consulting any organisations about the possible extension of a chiropody service as part of the National Health Service, if that is what the hon. Lady has in mind.

I hope the Minister of Health will not lose sight of the fact that there is urgent necessity for something to be done to establish a national chiropody service under the National Health Service. If he arrives at that situation, may we take it that he will see that in any such service only fully qualified chiropodists are employed?

I appreciate the value of an extended chiropody service. As to the second point of the supplementary question, the memorandum which the Society of Chiropodists was good enough to send me was concerned rather with the matters of provision than with the detailed questions of qualification, but, of course, I have that in mind as well.

Would my right hon. and learned Friend agree with me that various Ministers of Health long before him have all agreed that a national chiropody service for old-age pensioners is an objective? Is he also aware that Ministers of Health always said that what stood in their way was the difficulty of getting money for it? Is he making representations to get money, or does his Answer to the hon. Lady mean that he has gone a step backwards; I hope not, because if so he will get a crack on the head.

There is no issue as to the desirability of the objective of an extended chiropody service, but I was in fact answering a Question about consultations in connection with the chiropody service and not about the means of financing it.

Does not the Minister feel it is time to enter discussions with these bodies about the development of the chiropody service, because there is a great deal of information now available which was not available before? If he has not started, when will he start to consult these bodies, including the National Corporation for the Care of Old People?

I do not know whether the hon. Member understands the method suggested by the Society of Chiropodists. If it is possible to extend this service, the obvious way to do it, I should think, would be by an extension of the service under the existing provisions of Section 28 of the National Health Service Act.

asked the Minister of Health why he has not included tuberculosis in the Food Regulations which specify certain diseases which should exclude employment from food preparation.

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the Public Health (Infectious Diseases) Regulations, 1953. There is no evidence that transmission of tuberculosis occurs through the handling of food.

Is that not a dreadful reply, that it is possible for tubercular people to be engaged in the preparation of food? Is it not time that the Department again revised these Regulations?

No, Sir, I do not accept that. Tuberculosis in this country is now largely a pulmonary infection acquired mostly by close contact with persons suffering from pulmonary tuberculosis.

Will the hon. Gentleman again tell the House from where he obtains his facts? Is it not a fact that dry sputum is known to infect a person with whom it comes into contact?

The Regulations are concerned with cases involving a risk of infection if the person concerned prepared or handled food or drink for human consumption, for instance, typhoid fever, paratyphoid fever or other salmonella infection, dysentery and staphylococcal infection likely to cause food poisoning.

asked the Minister of Health if he will discuss with the General Medical Council the desirability of including either a compulsory paper or a compulsory question on psychiatry in the medical student's final examination.

This is not a matter on which I have any powers, but the hon. Member's suggestion will no doubt be noted by those concerned.

Will the Minister say whether there is any other way of ensuring that adequate attention is given to psychiatry in the medical student's curriculum? Does he not feel that for general practitioners of the future to be able to treat their patients properly and also to encourage students to undertake post-graduate courses in psychiatry it is essential that more attention should be paid to mental health in the teaching hospitals?

There are certain duties and powers resting with the General Medical Council in this context, but also for the last few years its policy has been designed to avoid giving detailed advice on the scope of instruction and the context of examinations because it has preferred to encourage flexibility and experimentation by the examining and licensing authorities. However, I am sure what the hon. Member has said will be borne in mind by those concerned with these professional examinations.

In view of the fact that 45 per cent. of hospital beds are occupied by people with mental disorders, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman not think it paradoxical that the medical student is not given an adequate education in psychiatry?

I do not think we must accept that they are not given adequate instruction in psychiatry. We know that they are given more instruction in psychiatry than was formerly the case and the younger practitioner has a larger equipment in this field than his senior used.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend perfectly certain that he is sound in being so reluctant to lay down regulations or to use his influence in regard to the instruction given to medical students in this and other fields?

Yes, Sir. Like everyone else, I am bound by the law. My hon. Friend will see the statutory position in the Medical Act, 1956. I should be perfectly happy to draw his attention to the detailed provisions if he so desires.

asked the Minister of Health what report he has received from the Watford Corporation in regard to the experimental trial of the fluoridisation of water supplies at present in progress.

None as yet.

Would the Minister bear in mind that tens of thousands of people, not only in Watford, but elsewhere, regard compulsory fluoridisation as an unwarrantable invasion of the liberties of the private subject? Would he therefore consider the voluntary provision of fluoride as is the case with iodine in areas where it is lacking?

I know that feelings are aroused by this matter, as my hon. Friend has indicated, but he in his turn will, I am sure, appreciate that there is a good deal of misunderstanding about it in some quarters. I assure him that the expert advice which I have received is that there is no ground for the allegation that fluoridisation has any adverse effect on health.

On the contrary, many people would think the people of Watford extremely fortunate.

asked the Minister of Health why a charge is made for lenses of children's spectacles where a parent prefers a frame other than one in the standard range and is prepared to pay for that frame.

The National Health Service Act, 1951, gives no power to provide lenses without charge unless they are fitted to frames included in the range of children's standard frames.

I know that; that was the point of the Question. Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that teenage school girls, in particular, often have strong views about the kind of frames that they want to wear? If the lenses are being provided free in any case, what does it matter in what frames they are fitted?

There is a quite considerable question of cost here. As the hon. Gentleman undoubtedly knows, we have six standard types of children's frames. As to their suitability, I cannot add to what I said in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucestershire, South (Mr. Corfield) the other day.

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made with the production and distribution of transistor hearing aids in the Newcastle-on-Tyne Regional Board Area.

Last summer, hearing aid centres were asked how many transistor hearing aids they would require for all children attending them. About four-fifths of the total required by centres in the Newcastle region have now been distributed, and distribution should be complete within about two months.

When is it proposed to extend this service to the general patient as well as to children?

For financial reasons, it will not be possible to replace quickly all valve aids with transistor aids. Valve aids are giving very good service, and when the time comes for issuing transistor aids to adults we shall have to work out a priority basis for their allocation, in the first instance.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary give some estimate of the relative cost of transistor and valve aids, first in production and then in maintenance?

Not without notice; but it is considerable.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement about the provision of accommodation for the elderly and chronic sick in Eastbourne.

The need for additional accommodation for the chronic sick in Eastbourne is recognised, and steps are being taken to acquire premises for this purpose.

Can my right hon. and learned Friend say how long it will be before this operation is completed; and when the premises will be available for full occupation?

I do not think that it should be very long. In fact, I have prepared a draft compulsory purchase order as being the best way to ensure the use of these premises for hospital purposes. My hon. Friend will be glad, I know, to hear that the closing date for objections was 14th February. If the order is confirmed, there should be very little delay in bringing the premises into use.

asked the Minister of Health how many midwives were engaged in practice in England and Wales during the last year for which records are available; how many ceased to practise during this year; and how many acquired the necessary diploma for practice during the same period.

During the year ended on the 31st January, 1958, 16,706 midwives notified their intention to practise. This figure is about 300 less than that for the preceding year, but the precise number who ceased to practise is not known. A total of 2,804 persons qualified as midwives.

Does the Minister think that the number qualifying each year is sufficient to make good the wastage from retirement, marriage, service abroad and other causes? If not, what is he doing to increase the output of midwives for service in this country?

There is not actually any shortage of qualified mid-wives. The difficulty arises because not sufficient of those who qualify go in for a practice. As the hon. Gentleman may know, I have had this matter considered by the National Consultative Council on the Recruitment of Nurses and Midwives. The Council's Report, which contains a number of suggestions, has been circulated for the information of hospital authorities, and is being followed up by visits by my medical and nursing officers.

asked the Minister of Health on what grounds he has satisfied himself that prices for corticosteroids which operated until July, 1958, at which period identical prices had been submitted to his Department for almost all items in this group during the previous two years, were fair and reasonable, in view of the drop from £56 to £12 per 1,000 tablets for one item of prednisteroids during the four months period subsequent to July, 1958; whether he is aware that this price reduction was by stages which were all observed contemporaneously by the leading American-owned or American-licensed companies in the United Kingdom; and whether he will reconsider his decision not to hold an inquiry.

Progress of manufacture has been closely watched with a view to securing reductions in price where possible, but initial costs were very high and no substantial reductions could be anticipated until economic production had been obtained. As regards the period to July, 1958, I would refer the hon. Member to my reply on 9th February to the hon. Member for Coventry, North (Mr. Edelman). I am informed that, since then, uniform prices have not obtained. I see no need for an inquiry.

Is the Minister aware that his continual refusal to hold an inquiry is causing very great disquiet?

No, Sir, I am not aware of any disquiet in this context. I am aware of gratification that the prices have come down.

Is the Minister aware that on many occasions in this House I have drawn to the attention of previous Ministers of Health the gross overcharging by certain American firms making proprietary drugs? These facts have never been disputed by the firms. My hon. Friend the Member for Islington, East (Mr. Fletcher) has now drawn another case to the Minister's attention, which the right hon. and learned Gentleman does not dispute. Why does he refuse to make inquiries into something amounting to an exploitation of the National Health Service?

There is no exploitation in this regard. Initially prices of these drugs tend to be high because of the natural desire—and entitlement—of the manufacturers to get back the amount spent on research, not only on these particular drugs but over the whole field of drugs, many of which may not come into economic production at all.

Why does the right hon. Lady the Member for Warrington (Dr. Summerskill) find it impossible to understand that drug prices in this country are lower than those in any other country in the world?

asked the Minister of Health when the experimental scheme for the training of ancillary dental workers provided for under the Dentists Act, 1957, is to commence.

I have been asked to reply as representing the Lord President of the Council.

I understand that the General Dental Council has made considerable progress with the preparation of its experimental scheme, but that it is not yet possible to give a precise date when training will commence.

Does the Minister realise that a great deal hangs on success in starting this scheme, as we are very short of dentists, and will be shorter still? Will he, therefore, do his best to get this scheme through, even if there is opposition from the Treasury?

I am fully aware of the importance of this matter, as is my noble and learned Friend. I cannot give a precise date for the commencing date of the training, as there is a good deal yet to do, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there will be no unnecessary delay.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made in establishing a central research and intelligence section in his Department capable of undertaking the studies recommended by the Guillebaud Committee.

A Statistical Branch has been established with a chief statistician, four professional statisticians and lay staff. The branch is wholly engaged on statistical inquiries and research of a kind which should lead, ultimately, to the provision of information of the type recommended by the Guillebaud Committee.

Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman's attention been drawn to the very valuable recent report of the Acton Society Trust, which emphasises the very limited field of research that is possible with the very small staff available at the Ministry of Health at the moment? Will the Minister look at this again, particularly in view of these strong recommendations in this very valuable report?

Yes, my attention has been drawn to the report of the Acton Society Trust, but it certainly would not be right for the hon. Member to imply that there is not a great deal of statistical activity going on within my Department.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will hold an inquiry into responsibly made allegations, details of which have been sent to him, that a Birmingham hospital sent home an elderly and seriously ill patient without notifying his wife, who had set out to visit him, and thus caused him to be left in a neighbouring house until she got back again, with the result that he had to be dressed and had to walk to his own home in the snow; and whether he will also investigate and report on the associated allegations that these elderly people were not treated with the standard of kindliness and courtesy expected of the National Health Service.

I have already instituted inquiries and I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as I am in a position to do so.

How long is this to take, because the Minister has already had two or three weeks' notice? Is not this the sort of petty inhumanity which gives the Health Service a bad reputation? Would it not be better to clear up whether the allegations are true or not as quickly as possible?

Of course it is a good thing to get inquiries concluded as quickly as possible, but that is provided the inquiries are full, thorough and satisfactory. I am sure the hon. Member would not dissent from that.

asked the Minister of Health what guidance he proposes to give to regional hospital boards with regard to the establishment of units for the treatment of patients suffering from psychopathic disorder.

This matter is already being discussed with hospital boards, and I will consider the need for issuing formal guidance at the appropriate time.

Is the Minister aware that regional boards will need all the help he can give them in this difficult task? Will he give an assurance that he will help in the cross-fertilisation of ideas and encouragement of experimental units so that we can have the broadest possible attack on this extremely intractable problem?

Yes, Sir. Although I would not be in order in referring in detail to things happening in a Standing Committee upstairs, the hon. Member will be aware that we have had an extended discussion on this difficult problem.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make funds available for a research study in a sample of hospitals, with a view to ascertaining the reason for the continuing rise in the cost of drugs and appliances, distinguishing the causes as between different branches of medicine, price increases, new drugs and appliances, and so forth.

No, Sir. Hospital authorities are already engaged on a general review of their costs following the publication of the first year's results of the new costing arrangements. I do not think it would be helpful to superimpose at this stage an additional study of the kind suggested.

Surely the Minister must realise that hospital authorities have not the funds or staff to undertake this type of research? Does he think we shall find the causes of these continually increasing costs unless we make a study of the extraordinarily wide variety of items which come under these headings?

I am expecting to receive the reports from the hospital boards on the results of the costings review during the course of this summer, and when I have had an opportunity of considering them I shall be in a better position to judge to what extent, if any, further studies of hospital costs may be of value, and, if so, what form that study should take.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether this matter has come before the Hinchliffe Committee, which is considering the general question of prescribing? Does the Minister know whether the Committee has carried out an investigation?

The hon. Gentleman, of course, has seen the interim Report of the Hinchliffe Committee. We are now awaiting the final Report, which I expect to receive before very long. However, the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Albu) is concerned purely with the hospital aspect, as can be seen from his Question.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to ensure uniformity between the gradings of staff in regional board and teaching hospitals.

It is the responsibility of the regional boards and boards of governors as employing authorities to grade their own posts in accordance with the definitions of duties laid down for the various grades. My Department controls the numbers and gradings of certain posts and, in this way, tries to promote common standards of grading.

Is the Minister aware that there is very strong feeling among hospital management committees and regional boards that the grading of administrative staff in teaching hospitals is at a very much higher level—that is to say, there are more higher posts—than is allowed in regional board hospitals? This will make it extremely difficult for hospitals in the Metropolitan area to recruit staff in future?

I am not aware of the circumstances to which the hon. Member referred. There is a good deal of provision which enables us, as it were, to facilitate the grading of appointments in the hospital field. However, if the hon. Member has any particular instances in mind I shall be very happy to consider them in the general context.

asked the Minister of Health what are his plans to provide a new hospital at Leek, Staffordshire, in view of the fact that people living in the Leek and Cheadle areas now often have to travel long distances to the Potteries for treatment.

I am informed that the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board is fully aware of the hospital needs of Leek, but specific proposals for development must await the completion of other and more urgent hospital projects.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that there is growing pressure in the district for a hospital to serve the Cheadle and Leek area? Is he not further aware of the long distances which emergency cases often have to travel through having to go to the Potteries? I cannot think of anything more important for the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board to deal with than emergency cases from the hill country around the Leek and Cheadle area?

I appreciate the hon. Member's anxiety, but I think we must agree that, in the first place, it is for the regional board to decide the relative priorities within its region.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made with the plans for the new hospital at St. Austell; and if he will make a statement.

The regional hospital board is negotiating the conveyance of the land which is being given for a new hospital, and has recently had preliminary discussions with officers of the Ministry about the plans for the first phase of building, which is to consist of a maternity unit.

As the land has been given and there has been already a substantial legacy towards the building of the first stage my constituents cannot understand why this matter is taking so long.

I appreciate that this has been a long-drawn-out matter. The site originally chosen for a new hospital at St. Austell was found to be quite unsuitable, as my hon. Friend will remember. A new site has been generously given by Mrs. Sawle and the board has completed negotiations with the county council, who were the tenants. There is still a sub-tenant to deal with. All these points tend to spin the matter out.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made with the plans for the new hospital at Truro; and if he will make a statement.

Sketch plans for the first phase of the scheme were submitted last July, and the detailed comments made by the Ministry's officers are about to be discussed with the regional hospital board.

An inordinate time seems to be taken in this case also. If the plans were drawn up last July, why has not further progress been made?

The difficulty has been that this is a very difficult scheme to complete, except on the basis that it is phased. The regional board did not have that in mind in its original plans. It was, therefore, necessary to ask the board to produce plans which would make it possible for the building to be done by phases. This again has made it difficult to agree on a first phase which would fit in with all the subsequent additions to the scheme.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will publish the findings of the progress reports he has received from hospital authorities on the introduction of the shorter working week for hospital nursing and midwifery staff.

I do not think these reports are suitable for publication as they stand, but I am considering whether they contain anything which I could usefully pass on to hospital authorities generally to help those who have not already introduced an 88-hour fortnight to make better progress.

Is the Minister aware that the House would be very interested to see the evidence on which he based his statement to me last week that a considerable measure of success has been achieved in reducing the hours of work without additional financial cost? Will not he, therefore, issue in the OFFICIAL REPORT a summary at any rate of the findings of the progress reports so that we may know in what percentage of hospitals the hours have been reduced under present arrangements and for what percentage of the staff?

The hon. Lady need not wait for that information. Four reports are still outstanding, but I can give her the broad conclusions which I have already drawn from the analysis of the reports concerned. In the general hospital groups, the 88-hour fortnight has been introduced, in full or substantially, in 69 per cent., partially in 21 per cent., and not at all, or only negligibly, in 10 per cent. The equivalent percentages for the mental hospital groups are 54 per cent., 14 per cent., and 32 per cent., respectively.

Does not the Minister think that he should draw to the attention of those hospitals that have failed to take action or have taken only partial action, the recommendation that more auxiliary workers should be used? That, in itself, might solve the problem.

There are various ways in which I think I can help, and that, no doubt, is one of them.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has yet agreed to meet a joint deputation of management and staff side representatives of the Society of Radiographers to discuss new agreements on salaries and gradings.

I met a deputation from the joint management and staff side of the appropriate Whitley Council on 4th February.

Can the Minister give the House any information as to the result of the conference he had with the Society of Radiographers and the Whitley Council?

Yes. Our exchanges were very amiable and, I hope, constructive. I was able to give an undertaking that the management side of the Whitley Council would be in a position to make proposals on salaries not later than 6th March.

Can the Minister tell us whether, when he considers the remuneration of these radiographers, he will backdate the award 19 months, as in the case of certain civil servants last week?

Of course, this will be a matter to be considered in the Whitley Council negotiations in the context of this particular application, and of any other comparable matters that are genuinely relevants to it.

In view of the right hon. and learned Gentleman's previous performance, what guarantee has the Whitley Council that the proposal it puts forward will be accepted by him?

This gives me the opportunity to say, Mr. Speaker—an opportunity I did not have at the time—that when the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Blyth (Mr. Robens) referred to this matter in the general debate on industrial relations a few months ago he packed more misconceptions and errors into a few paragraphs than I have ever heard before.