asked the Minister of Health whether he is yet in a position to announce an extension of the chiropody services provided under the National Health Service.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement on the future of the chiropody services provided under the National Health Service Act.

asked the Minister of Health what are his proposals for extending the chiropody services provided under the National Health Service.

asked the Minister of Health what plans he has to develop the chiropody services under the National Health Service Act; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. I am now ready to approve proposals by local health authorities who wish to provide a chiropody service as part of their arrangements for the prevention of illness under Section 28 of the National Health Service Act. I propose to consult the local authority associations immediately on the terms of a circular to be sent to the authorities.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that that reply will give a great deal of satisfaction? May I ask him two questions? First, can he indicate what categories of people will be able to benefit by this; and secondly, will he give an assurance that the very considerable labours of voluntary organisations will not be lost as a consequence of this new step?

As to the first part of the supplementary question, this is, of course, a matter for the individual local health authorities, but I intend to ask them to give priority in the early years of the new service to the elderly, physically handicapped and expectant mothers. As to the second part concerning voluntary bodies, as my hon. Friend may know, from 1st April next local health authorities wishing to contribute to the funds of voluntary organisations under Section 28 (3) for the purposes of providing chiropody will not need to seek my approval to do so.

As there are many outside the National Health Service who are now fully-qualified chiropodists, is it the right hon. and learned Gentleman's intention to invite them to take part in this larger service alongside the ancillary work now being done in hospitals?

Chiropodists employed by local health service authorities will need to possess one or other of the qualifications prescribed under the National Health Service Medical Auxiliary Regulations, 1954.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that there will be great satisfaction that this service is being extended? One most important point, however, is that those employed by all these bodies should be fully qualified according to the standards of the Society of Chiropodists. Does my right hon. and learned Friend hope that we shall have registration of those chiropodists very soon?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend for what she said at the beginning of her supplementary question. In regard to the latter part, there is a further Question on the Order Paper about these matters. On the generality of it, I think the House would wish that the standards for chiropodists in local health authority services should not be inferior to the general standard required.

While welcoming this announcement, may I put two questions to the right hon. and learned Gentleman? Firstly, when will this service come into operation, and secondly, will it be domiciliary?

As I said earlier, I am proposing to consult the local health authorities at once and then to send an appropriate circular. No doubt the local health authorities will wish to await the arrival of that to institute their services. In regard to the second part of the question, I would expect this service to be based on clinics.

While the cost will depend upon the speed with which the scheme is implemented by the local health authorities, can my right hon. and learned Friend say what sort of total financial provision is to be made and whether he has any ideas on priorities which will follow on the full implementation of the scheme?

As my hon. Friend says, it is difficult to estimate the cost as it is dependent upon the take-up by the local health authorities. I should say that on a national basis it could be expected to rise to a figure of between £1 million and £2 million over a period of the next few years. As to priorities, I would, as I have said, hope that priority would be given to the elderly, the physically handicapped and expectant mothers.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the priority which exists in the supply of artificial limbs and appliances to war pensioners, the time taken to provide a new limb, and the average time now required to undertake major limb repairs at Roehampton.

Priority is given to war pensioners in the supply of artificial limbs whenever circumstances justify it. The average time taken to supply new limbs to all patients at Roehampton is at present about eighty-five days. Time taken for repairs varies according to the complexity of the job and its priority, but on average the most complex repairs take about eighty days.

Is the Minister aware that the artificial limb service, in which Britain leads the world, is much appreciated by the limbless ex-Service man, and that the only anxiety expressed from time to time concerns the length of time he has to wait for his limb? Can the Minister assure us that the average time he has quoted is not an increase on the previous average time?

I am obliged to the hon. Member for what he has said. I think that I can give him the assurance for which he seeks. The average time indicated to him was in reply to his specific question about major limb repairs, but many repairs—in fact, almost half, throughout the country—are carried out in the centres without any delay. They are actually carried out on the same day. The average for all repairs in 1958 was about thirty-three days.

Can the Minister say whether the recent amalgamation of the two main firms has had any effect upon the waiting period—either adversely or otherwise?

I am not aware that it has had any adverse effect, but perhaps the hon. Member would put down a Question on the matter.

Are any steps being taken to reduce the average time taken for repairs?

It is rather a difficult problem. So much of the time for the repair arises out of the lengthy process of prescription, measurement, fitting and that kind of thing. It is not the actual manufacture which takes up most of the time.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement of the benefits which have accrued to wearers of artificial limbs and appliances through the work of the Department of Research and Experiment at Roehampton; and what new items have been approved for general issue to amputees from the work of that department during the last two years.

The research department plays a major part in artificial limb development by undertaking basic research, by initiating or developing new ideas and designs, by working with and advising the limb contractors on the contractors' own ideas for developments, by organising field trials, and by examining developments overseas or submitted from other sources so that promising new lines can be investigated. Forward set knees, suction sockets, anatomical tuber-bearing corsets and "Z" type below-elbow prostheses have become generally available in the last two years from the work of the department in conjunction with the limb contractors. In addition, various arm appliances have been designed for special needs, other developments have been approved and are about to go into production, and many projects are under way.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the numbers of double below-knee amputee war pen- sioners who have been provided with motor-propelled tricycles at State expense; and whether he will now grant direct entitlement to means of transport to all war pensioners who have lost both legs below knees.

One hundred and fourteen in England and Wales have power-propelled tricycles and in addition 10 have cars provided, six receive a private car maintenance allowance, and a few have received car conversion grants instead of a tricycle. On the second part of the Question, I have nothing to add to the reply given to the hon. Member on 12th May, 1958.

Is the Minister aware that a man with an above-knee amputation can get a motor car, although men with two legs amputated below the knee cannot even get a motor-propelled tricycle? Is not this unfair, and will not the Minister look into the question again?

This matter has received much consideration. Automatic eligibility for all double below-knee amputations is not justifiable, since many such men cannot be said to have almost totally lost the use of their legs, or even to have their walking ability so restricted as to qualify them for machines for employment purposes.

Will not the hon. Gentleman look into this question again? Does he realise that these men who have had a double amputation below the knee are now getting older, and that during the years since the war extra strain has been thrown upon their healthy limbs and joints? We cannot look at this question, put now, as we might have looked at it when put immediately after the war. We should be more sympathetic as the years go on. Further, the number of these men must be very small, and must decrease over the years.

I take the point raised by the right hon. Lady. We have kept this matter under continuous review, but the question of producing a new class or standard of eligibility is not one that we have been able to accept up till now.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement outlining the steps taken by his Department to provide relief for sufferers of phantom limb and amputation stump pains; what were the numbers of such amputees specially treated at Roehampton last year; and whether he will make details of these treatments and remedies widely known at provincial centres, so that larger numbers of amputees will be encouraged to request treatment.

Treatment is given at a number of hospitals for phantom limb and amputation stump pains by the methods judged most appropriate in each case. At Queen Mary's Hospital, Roehampton, a group of intractable cases has been reviewed and given recognised forms of treatment under the supervision of various specialists; 70 such cases were admitted in 1958 and of these 61 showed improvement. The methods used at Roehampton are generally known, and all medical staff at limb fitting centres are aware of the facilities available. The number of amputees requiring treatment for stump pain is quite small.

The Minister will realise that the important part of the Question is making the details of the arrangements and remedies widely known. I know nothing about them. When the "phantom rides again" I shall have to grin and bear it, because I do not know the methods of obtaining the treatment. Cannot something be put into the pension order book, or some steps be taken to let all amputees know exactly what procedure they have to take when they are subject to these pains in phantom limbs?

I have always had an open mind on this matter, but I wonder whether publicity is in all cases in the patient's interest. In many cases psychological treatment is necessary, and it may be impeded if the patient's attention has been fixed on his disability, or on one particular line of treatment. It is for the doctor and not the patient to decide whether a particular line is worth trying.

asked the Minister of Health what percentage of the practising midwives in Stoke-on-Trent are trained in the administration of inhalation analgesics, as compared with the national percentage; how many of them use gas and air; and how many use trilene.

Thirty-three of the 37 domiciliary midwives in Stoke-on-Trent, or nearly 90 per cent., are trained in the administration of inhalation analgesics. The national percentage is about 95. All the Stoke-on-Trent midwives who give analgesia use gas and air.

In view of the fact that the gas and air apparatus is very heavy and cannot be easily carried about by hand, can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether motor vehicles will be supplied at any time in the future, and if not, why not?

As the hon. Gentleman will know, trilene has no clinical advantage over gas and air, but it has the advantage of easier transportability. The question of the provision of vehicles would be a matter for the local authority.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the continuing shortage of midwives in Rugby; and what action he proposes taking consequent upon the findings of the Maternity Services Committee under the chairmanship of the Earl of Cranbrook.

Yes, Sir, and as regards the first part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which my right hon. and learned Friend gave to the hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason) on 10th February; I am sending him a copy of the memorandum referred to in that answer. As regards the second part, I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which my right hon. and learned Friend gave to the hon. Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) on 20th January.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many of my constituents wish to have their babies in hospital and not at home as their mothers did 25 or 30 years ago? Is he aware that at Harborough Magna Hospital there are empty beds because there are no midwives and nurses to deal with patients who wish to go there? Is he further aware that the findings of this Committee are most disappointing to many of us, and will he think again about this matter?

Further consideration of this matter, the importance of which I fully recognise, is bound up with considering the recommendations of the Cranbrook Report very thoroughly. This is going on in consultation with the numerous bodies concerned.

In view of the fact that Questions similar to this are put down on other occasions, is the hon. Gentleman doing anything to transfer midwives from areas where there is adequate provision to places such as my hon. Friend's constituency?

That is a very difficult question, because we can persuade but we cannot direct anybody. Normally there is a very considerable difference between the hospital and the domiciliary service. My right hon. and learned Friend is concerned specifically with the hospital service.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he takes to warn British travellers abroad against eating clams and other fish food in countries where the hygiene regulations are not as strict as in Great Britain.

The Ministry's notice to travellers going abroad advises them all to be vaccinated against typhoid and paratyphoid fevers, which are diseases that may be transmitted by food, including shellfish. Apart from this no special advice is given.

Does my hon. Friend realise that there has been considerable publicity during the last few weeks in connection with a case involving two of my constituents? Is he aware that there is nervousness among people going abroad and a feeling that there should be more guidance provided? Can he tell us whether these statements are given at all places where one buys tickets or whether it is provided only on official documents?

The advice in the notice to travellers is also contained in a booklet. "Essential Information for the Citizens of the U.K. and Colonies who intend to travel overseas", which is issued by the Passport Office. Despite what has been said by my hon. Friend, I think it would be invidious to attempt to classify overseas countries with special regard to the nature of their hygiene regulations.

Are wet nurses also to be provided?

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the steadily increasing death rate from cancer of the lung, and the need for direct evidence and an authoritative statement as to the relationship between smoking and this disease, he will recommend the appointment of a Royal Commission to inquire into the matter.

This is a matter for scientific research and assessment, rather than for a Royal Commission. In 1957 the Medical Research Council made an authoritative assessment of the evidence then available, and research is continuing.

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman realise that the public is waiting for an authoritative statement by an independent body and perhaps rather suspects doctors and the other members of the Medical Research Council? The public is being told one thing by the Medical Research Council and something quite different by the tobacco manufacturers, and it wants to know what is true. Would it not be useful if the right hon. Gentleman set up a Royal Commission of responsible men and women to come to some conclusion and let the public know the truth?

I would be sorry to think that the public was suspicious of doctors in this or, indeed, in any other context. On medical and scientific questions, it is advisable to have regard to the careful assessments made by doctors and scientists. The Medical Research Council, in a statement in 1957, concluded that it was reasonable to associate a major part of the great increase in lung cancer with tobacco smoking. No new information of major significance has come to hand since then, but there have been follow-up reports from various countries that have tended to confirm that assessment.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a further statement regarding the registration of chiropodists and the use of fully qualified chiropodists in a national chiropody service for old people.

I have in draft a scheme for the registration of medical auxiliaries (which includes the registration of chiropodists) on which I am further consulting the medical profession. Meanwhile the qualifications of chiropodists employed in the National Health Service are governed by statutory Regulations.

In view of the announcement that the right hon. and learned Gentleman has already made this afternoon about the development of the chiropody service, is it not desirable to press on more rapidly with the registration of chiropodists? Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider also a separate scheme for them and keep in mind the need for the development of a domiciliary service as well as a clinical service?

I should be very reluctant to abandon the attempt to have a general registration scheme in respect of medical auxiliaries and have to embark upon piecemeal legislation for these various classes of auxiliary. I do not think that would be as good an approach as the one that we have in mind. I hope before long that we shall conclude these discussions to the satisfaction of all.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that a scheme was propounded as far back as 1956, a comprehensive scheme which he desires but on which there has not been a settlement? Is he further aware that the chiropodists are frustrated because they have had their house in order for so long and have had to wait for other people who cannot make up their minds?

My hon. Friend will no doubt appreciate the importance of further discussions with the medical profession, whose point of view is material to chiropodists' registration as well as to that of the other medical auxiliaries. I should be sorry to embark upon an individual scheme for the chiropodists, because I am not satisfied that it would be easy for each of the medical auxiliaries to have a scheme of their own if they were not able to come under some comprehensive arrangement.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say something about the need for domiciliary care in the chiropody service, because these are the cases that most need attention?

Yes, I appreciate that. That would be for examination in the ordinary way in the context of the individual circumstances of each local health authority. I would like to consider that point further in my consultations with the local authorities, before issuing the circular to which I have referred.

asked the Minister of Health when action is to be taken to improve the scales of payment to patients in mental hospitals for work of a reasonably high standard, substituting, wherever suitable, payment by cash in place of tobacco allowances.

Work undertaken by patients in mental and mental deficiency hospitals is essentially a part of treatment. Remuneration as such is therefore not payable, but incentives in cash or kind are normally provided. Their nature and amount is, however, a matter for decision in the light of the medical needs of individual patients.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary saying that it would retard the progress of a patient to pay a few shillings into an account each week to be used for him when he comes out of the mental hospital? Does not he think it regrettable that, when his Ministry is warning the public against smoking, patients who are deprived of liberty because they cannot look after themselves outside are paid with tobacco? Is it not disgraceful, especially since they are paid two ounces of tobacco weekly for thirty-eight hours of work of a reasonably high standard?

We must allow hospital authorities some discretion in running these schemes. As he will know, some hospitals already run small industrial units, on broadly commercial lines, and here the incentives are often much greater than the hon. Member has suggested. Those patients who go out to work will receive normal wages from their employers and make maintenance payments to the hospital.

Is the Minister aware that there is an increasing tendency to make incentive payments in cash, but that some hospital management committees are reluctant to make this change? Will he and his right hon. Friend do all they can to induce management committees to make cash payments wherever possible?

I will consider that, and no doubt the publicity resulting from these questions and answers will draw attention to this matter.

Can the Minister tell the House in what proportion of hospitals there is this graduated payment?

Not without notice.

Owing to the very unsatisfactory answer, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that pharmacists working in mental hospitals suffer financial disadvantage compared with those working in general hospitals; and if he will take steps, through his representatives on the appropriate Whitley Council, to remove this anomaly, especially in view of the rapid growth of chemotherapy in the treatment of mental disorder.

The rates of pay of pharmacists in mental hospitals, other than chief pharmacists, are the same as those for pharmacists in general hospitals. The rates of pay of the chief pharmacists vary in accordance with a points scheme which takes into account, amongst other things, the size and type of hospital, and was agreed by the Pharmaceutical Whitley Council. The scheme is at present under review by the Whitley Council and the information being obtained will doubtless reflect any changes in the pharmaceutical work in mental hospitals.

Whatever may have been the historical reason for this differentiation among chief pharmacists, is he aware that it has caused difficulties in recruitment for mental hospitals in the past? In view of this new development of drug treatment in mental hospitals the need for differentiation has completely disappeared. Will the Minister do what he can, through the Whitley Council, to see that this anomaly is removed?

We had better await the results of this inquiry, which I understand should be available to the Whitley Council in the near future.

asked the Minister of Health what decision he has reached on the proposals made to him by the governors of Charing Cross Hospital concerning the future size of the hospital.

No decision has yet been reached; consultations with the responsible hospital boards are still proceeding.

Am I right in supposing that, as at present planned, the control of the building at Fulham will pass to the governors of the Charing Cross Hospital on 1st April? Is the Minister aware that the governors of Charing Cross have stated that they are not anxious to proceed with the projected building unless the hospital can be what they consider an adequate size? In view of this, ought we not to have a decision?

No, Sir, because constructive discussions are taking place between the boards, with the assistance of my officers, regarding the appropriate size of the hospital. Since they met my officers, the boards have been in consultation with a view to submitting revised proposals, and a further meeting with my officers will take place shortly.

Can the Minister say when a decision is likely to be reached?

Clearly, it will not be reached before the meeting with my officers after the submission of the revised proposals from the two boards.

asked the Minister of Health what arrangements will be made, when Charing Cross Hospital is moved to Fulham, for admission of patients under the emergency bed service.

It would be premature at this stage to determine what arrangements should be made, since it will be several years before the move takes place.

Does the Minister realise that in Fulham we keep hearing various more or less authentic reports of decisions which have been reached on this and other matters? Would it not be helpful to know exactly what is to happen?

I am sure that I shall have the assistance of the hon. Gentleman in indicating that some of these reports must be less rather than more authentic. I have given him the position in answer to his last Question, and I do not foresee any difficulty regarding the point which he has under inquiry in this Question.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he will take to ensure that sufficient doctors qualified in Great Britain or with some post-graduate training in Britain are available to fill outstanding vacancies up to and including registrar grade in the hospital service.

I do not consider that special steps are needed. The number of doctors available for civilian employment will increase between now and 1962 as the number of medical officers needed by the Armed Forces declines.

Is the Minister aware that, for example, in a hospital in Wales the authorities have been unable for five years to recruit any British qualified doctor for the positions of house surgeon and house physician, and that there is a very well known hospital in London where it has been found impossible to fill the post of orthopaedic house surgeon? In view of those circumstances, does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman think that some urgent action is required?

I will consider the question of the individual hospitals mentioned by the hon. Gentleman if he cares to send me particulars. Generally speaking, the position is improving. There has been a substantial intake in the general hospital medical services for England and Wales in the last two years. In 1956–57, the latest period for which figures are available, the number is appreciably more than was visualised as necessary by the Willink Committee.

Will the Minister assure the House that he is doing nothing to recommend the adoption of the proposal of the Willink Committee that there should be a reduction in the numbers coming into the medical training section?

I defined the position regarding the Willink Committee at the time when it reported. Obviously I am now keeping an eye on the general trends. As I say, the intake in 1956–57 has been higher than the Committee visualised as being necessary. That fact, together with the increasing number of doctors from the Armed Forces becoming available, should meet the question which the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

asked the Minister of Health what returns he receives from mental hospitals as to the proportion of open and closed wards, respectively, in individual hospitals.

No regular returns of this information are made to me.

Is the Minister aware that the outbreaks of violence, or complaints of outbreaks, such as were discussed in this House last week and previously on the B.B.C., and about which many hon. Members who are interested receive information, may be prevented principally by the policy of open wards which has been pursued by so many hospitals in the last two or three years? Will my right hon. and learned Friend do everything in his power to see that this policy is adopted even by those more backward hospitals where it is not yet in operation?

My hon. Friend will be aware of the figures which emerged from the special inquiry into this matter in 1957. Then the acceptance of the therapeutic value of the open door principle was shown to be widespread. It has further increased during the time which has elapsed since that inquiry. Of course, there will always be a minority of patients for whom, as part of their hospital care and treatment, the maintenance of adequate security precautions is essential.

asked the Minister of Health how many beds are now available in Stoke-on-Trent for the treatment of Pneumoconiosis and its complications, other than tuberculosis; and whether he will make a statement on the efficacy of this provision.

Twenty-four beds are available, and my information indicates that this is fully adequate.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I did not ask him whether it was adequate? I asked about the efficacy of this new form of treatment. Am I right in believing that it is spectacularly good in many cases? If that be so, can the hon. Gentleman say what steps the Ministry will take to see that this provision is made more widespread and available to other areas where the problem of pneumoconiosis and its complications exists?

I took the hon. Gentleman's question to refer to the adequacy of the provision of beds, meaning the actual number of beds. Regarding the adequacy of the treatment, which appears to have been the point raised by the hon. Gentleman, I have every reason to believe that it is successful; but I should like to look into that matter and write to the hon. Gentleman about it.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give the percentage of beds reserved for patients who pay for both accommodation and treatment in the hospitals under his direction in each of the last five years; and whether the percentage of empty places in such beds was greater or less than in those not so reserved.

The proportion of hospital beds designated for private patients in each of the last five years for which figures are available slightly exceeds 1 per cent. of the whole; the percentage of empty places in such beds was greater than in others.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there is an idea that instead of these pay-beds being used as ordinary beds they are being kept vacant in many cases waiting for paying patients? Is there any evidence that this is the case, or is it not so?

I have no evidence that that is the case. As the hon. Gentleman knows, private beds are available for Health Service patients who urgently require accommodation on medical grounds and for whom no other suitable accommodation is available. That is provided for in Section 5 of the National Health Service Act, and I have no reason to suppose that it is not observed.

Must these cases be urgent when there is a large waiting list? Although cases are not urgent, could they not be accommodated in these pay-beds?

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the language of the Act, which is:

"any patient who urgently needs that accommodation on medical grounds"

asked the Minister of Health when it is proposed to extend the hospital geriatric service in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, in view of the present shortage of hospital beds.

The regional hospital board has already done a great deal to improve geriatric services in Newcastle, and my right hon. and learned Friend relies on them to make further improvements as opportunity offers.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, owing to the considerable shortage of these beds in Newcastle, patients have to go a considerable way into neighbouring authorities to find accommodation where it is impossible to treat the patients adequately?

I recognise the importance of the problem, but as the hon. Gentleman will know, the board has appointed a committee to advise it on the planning of the hospital service in Newcastle generally. Any suggestion which the committee makes for the general improvement of the geriatric service will certainly receive the fullest consideration.

asked the Minister of Health what step he will take to shorten the waiting period for patients awaiting entry into hospital in the East Glamorgan area.

Hospital facilities generally in this area will continue to be improved and developed. The appointment of additional consultants has been authorised and a number of beds previously set aside for the treatment of tuberculosis is becoming available for other uses.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will consult the French Government with a view to a mutual arrangement by which territories at present under British and French administration in Africa, including trusteeship territories, may become united with independent status when their people so desire.

It would not be appropriate to approach this question in the general terms indicated by the hon. Member. A decision on whether and when a territory should become independent and, if so, whether it would be appropriate for Her Majesty's Government to undertake consultations with other Governments about the possible union or association of the territory with another territory, must depend on the circumstances of the particular case.

Would not the Minister of State agree that this is now becoming a wider and increasingly urgent question? Is he not aware that there is already misunderstanding in Paris about the decision of the Republic of Guinea to link with Ghana and that problems will arise in the South Cameroons and between British and French Somaliland? Is it not desirable that there should be these discussions with independent African States, who seek to end the artificial and arbitrary frontiers which now exist?

I do not think the question is wider than the answer I gave.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will agree to discuss the Soviet Government's proposal for the establishment of a nuclear-free zone in the Far East, and will as a first step propose to refrain from introducing nuclear weapons or bases into the territories of Tai-Wan, South Korea, or any of the Far Eastern South-East Asia Treaty Organisation powers, in return for similar action by the People's Republic of China, North Korea and North Viet Nam, and by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in its maritime provinces in Siberia.

If the hon. Member is referring to some recent remarks by the Soviet Prime Minister, the answer is "No, Sir." I cannot discuss so vague a suggestion, let alone make a proposal of the kind suggested by the hon. Member.

Is it not a fact that the United States is introducing nuclear weapons and bases into Formosa and Southern Korea, and eventually into Southern Viet Nam? Would it not be desirable to take action to prevent the situation in that part of the world becoming more and more dangerous and explosive instead of doing nothing until an incident occurs?

That is really rather more a matter for the United States Government than for Her Majesty's Government.

Is it not a matter Her Majesty's Government should say something about?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what estimate he has made of the relative extent to which the nuclear researches of Western Powers would be hindered as compared with those of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics under an agreement to suspend such nuclear tests as could be detected by the best inspection arrangements which the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics has so far been willing to accept.

We should be at a complete disadvantage because the present proposals of the Soviet Government would give us no assurance against the carrying out of clandestine tests of nuclear weapons.

Do the Government accept that the largest and dirtiest explosions register anyway on appropriate instruments in any part of the world? Would it not be well worth while to see that the greatest danger to health and in other respects could be obviated by getting an agreement on the suspension of those tests which could be detected by the inspection arrangements which the Russians are prepared to agree to, granted that this would be more limited, so that we got a limited agreement and then proceeded to negotiate to see what prospects there are of further advance?

We are hoping to get agreement on suspension of all tests.

is it not a fact that it is already possible to detect significant tests? Would it not be very much better to start there in the hope that it would be possible to extend to other tests later? Should not some initiative be taken to give more hope than exists at the moment?

I do not think anything we have done or which is in our power to do is leading to lack of hope. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we are anxious to get an agreement, but I do not see how we can get it until we have ironed out the difficulties of a control of tests and inspection system.

Is it not a fact that the Russians have offered to suspend tests, and while it is understood in all parts of the House that it is better to have a refined and controlled system, would it not be better to get an agreement to stop tests, knowing that if they are significant they can in fact be detected?

I think we must not give up hope of full agreement on this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent evidence in the possession of Her Majesty's Government indicates that subterranean nuclear test explosions and hidden stockpiles of nuclear weapons, respectively, can be detected if a system of international inspection were established.

As to underground nuclear explosions, I would refer the right hon. and learned Member to paragraph 18 on page 7 of the White Paper on the Geneva Conference of Experts which was tabled last October. Since then the United States Government have given us and the Soviet Government certain new evidence which suggests that the capability of the system recommended by the Conference of Experts would not be so great as originally thought. As to the second part of the Question, there is no method known to scientists whereby hidden stocks of nuclear weapons can be detected.

With regard to the first part of the reply, will the hon. Gentleman say that that qualification put forward by the American scientists will not be allowed to hold up an agreement on the suspension of the tests?

Yes Sir, but I think the right hon. and learned Member would agree that this is a matter which has to be looked at carefully.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reply he will make to the requests received from the Iraqi Government for supplies of arms.

Several requests for arms have been received from the Iraq Government and some, including some dating from before the revolution, have been met. Others are still under consideration.

Will the hon. Gentleman state what are the criteria that are applied in these cases? Are arms being supplied to Iraq on the basis that Iraq is a member of the Bagdad Pact or on the basis that Iraq is not a member of the Bagdad Pact? In view of the misinformation which has resulted in the supply of arms to other parts of the world by Her Majesty's Government, are the Government quite sure that this policy should not be reviewed?

My right hon. Friend told the House on 18th February the principles which govern Her Majesty's Government's policy in supplying arms to foreign Powers. I have nothing to add to that.

Before the Government supply more arms to Iraq, will they insist on payment being made for damage sustained when the British Embassy was burned down last year?

That is rather a different question. Perhaps my hon. Friend will put it down.

In view of the fact that, it is only a day or two since the House was told by one of the Ministers of the Foreign Office—I cannot remember who—that the Tripartite Declaration, in the view of the Government, was in force in this matter, can we be told whether that is the policy which governs the giving of arms, or the Bagdad Pact, or what?

That is certainly taken into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent Her Majesty's Government, as a member of the Bagdad Pact Council, have been consulted by the United States Government about bilateral negotiations for military pacts between the United States of America and member States of the Bagdad Pact, with the exception of Iraq; and if he will make a statement.

As my right hon. and gallant Friend the then Minister of State informed the right hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Bevan) on 15th December, Her Majesty's Government have been kept generally informed, both by the United States Government and by her Allies in the Bagdad Pact, of the progress of these negotiations. Pending the actual conclusion of the bilateral agreements. I have no statement to make.

What is the basis of Anglo-American understanding in this case? Does not the negotiation of these bilateral pacts show some lack of faith in the Bagdad Pact? Do Her Majesty's Government share with the Americans lack of faith in the Bagdad Pact and by making bilateral negotiations show that that is their viewpoint?

No. These bilateral negotiations in no way show lack of faith in the Bagdad Pact.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how many officers of his Department flew on official journeys between the United Kingdom and the United States of America on commercial airlines; and how many flew first class and how many tourist class in the last twelve months for which figures are available.

Between 1st February, 1958, and 31st January, 1959, seventy-two, of which fifty-one flew first class.

Would my hon. Friend say whether the allocations as to who goes first class and who goes tourist are laid down by any rule of seniority or if it is purely at the discretion of the head of the mission?

The rule for the Foreign Office is that only officers of the rank of Counsellor (A6) and above may travel first class if tourist seats are available. However, the figures I have given do not give a picture of what usually happens since two of these major journeys had to be changed at the last minute when there were no tourist seats available.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make a statement on the recent extension by the Government of Panama of their territorial waters limit from three to 12 miles; and what representations he has made to that power in respect of the British interests affected.

On 18th December, 1958. Panama declared the extension of its sovereign rights in a twelve-mile zone of territorial sea along all its coasts. On 12th January, 1959, Her Majesty's Ambassador at Panama delivered a Note stating that Her Majesty's Government were not able to recognise any extension of territorial waters pending any decision that might be reached at the Conference on the Law of the Sea in 1960.

Did the representation indicate that in the event of this limitation ever becoming effective it would cover the Panama itself?

No, Sir, it would not.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to what extent it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government that representatives of both the Federal Republic of Germany and the East German authorities should act as advisers at the proposed four-Power Foreign Ministers' conference.

The policy of Her Majesty's Government is set out in their Note of 16th February, which said:

"It is suggested that German advisers should be invited to the conference and should be consulted."

Is it not the view of Her Majesty's Government that sooner rather than later representatives of both East Germany and West Germany should get round the council table together at such a conference at this?

That is a wider question, but if the right hon. and learned Member looks at the Answer he will see that I have given general assent to it.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will give an assurance that the Government will seek to settle the question of communications with Berlin, after the end of May, on the basis of the treaty obligations of the United Nations Charter.

If the hon. Member is asking whether Her Majesty's Government will act in accordance with the aims and principles of the Charter of the United Nations I can certainly give him the assurance which he seeks. I trust that the Soviet Government will do likewise.

Surely the hon. Gentleman realises that what I asked was whether the Government were prepared to observe the obligations of the Charter for the settlement of disputes by pacific means and refraining from resort to force on one's own view of one's rights? Are the Government prepared to uphold that idea?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will propose to the United States, French, and Soviet Governments that, failing agreement before the end of May on the status of Berlin, they should join with Her Majesty's Government in requesting the Security Council, under Article 38 of the Charter, to make recommendations for the pacific settlement of the dispute and, also, under Article 40, to propose provisional measures to prevent an aggravation of the situation, pending a settlement.

This is a hypothetical Question and I am not prepared to say what proposals Her Majesty's Government might make.

Would the hon. Gentleman not say something to dispel the impression that the Government are so busy preparing for a military showdown in three months that they have no time left to work out a method of peaceful settlement?

It is very much the hon. Gentleman and some like him who are creating this impression rather than Her Majesty's Government.

Was the last supplementary question asked by the hon. Member for Gorton (Mr. Zilliacus) helpful or unhelpful to Her Majesty's potential enemies?

While the United Nations are discussing this, what would our garrison use for food?

I think that that is even more hypothetical than the hon. Member's Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in view of the statement in the recent British note to the Soviet Government as to the alleged danger to world peace inherent in the latter's initiative in respect of Berlin, he will now bring the matter to the attention of the Security Council under Articles 34 and 35 of the Charter, as constituting a situation which might lead to international friction or give rise to a dispute, and the continuance of which might endanger the maintenance of peace.

While it is desirable to have a summit conference at the earliest possible moment, has it not been indicated that that would be in association with the United Nations and is it not desirable that in the background there should be the influence not only of our Government but also of the neutral Governments of the world to secure peace?

We are certainly not excluding the possibility of reference to the United Nations, if that seemed appropriate.

Can the hon. Member say whether the latest reports coming from Moscow do not indicate that the Soviet Government are ready to agree to a Foreign Minister's conference on the subject of Berlin?

If the right hon. Gentleman does not mind, it would be very much wiser if we awaited the return of the Prime Minister and let him state the position more fully than some of the newspapers have stated it.

Have the Government noted that in one of the official notes of the Soviet Union two or three weeks ago reference was made to the possibility of the United Nations having a rôle to play in the settlement of Berlin? Is not this something which one would previously have expected the Soviet Government to exclude? Should we not regard it as an encouraging sign? May we take it that, despite the hon. Member's rather discouraging replies, the Government are seriously considering the part which the United Nations may take in this matter?

I had not meant to be discouraging and I am grateful to the right hon. Member for his intervention. We must take some sort of encouragement from the statement to which he referred.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will make available to the House the full text of the statement to the Press made in Washington on 6th February by Her Majesty's Ambassador, Sir Harold Caccia; and whether he will give particulars of the detailed military planning to meet emergencies arising in connection with Berlin mentioned in that statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the nature of inter-Allied military planning on communications with Berlin, referred to by Her Majesty's Ambassador in Washington in a Press statement on 6th February, and on the parallel political planning on ways and means of affecting a peaceful settlement of the Berlin question according to procedures prescribed by the United Nations Charter.

Her Majesty's Ambassador gave an informal Press Conference. No written statement was issued.

In view of the fact that no military planning was envisaged in this visit, will the hon. Member take note of the advice offered him this morning by the noble Lord the Member for Dorset, South (Viscount Hinchingbrooke) in a letter to The Times in which he said that we should declare that we will not use tanks to get into Berlin but that we will use Berlin to reunify Germany and at the same time give Russia the assurance that, having achieved reunification, we will not use it to wage war upon her?

The Government always pay the closest attention to what my noble Friend says or writes, but I fail to see what that has to do with Her Majesty's Ambassador in Washington.

Is it not a fact that the British Ambassador in Washington said that a senior officer had been sent to Washington for the purpose of military planning? Will the hon. Member not state—because the people of Britain and the world are entitled to know—for what purpose the officer was engaging in these discussions, under what circumstances the use of military force was contemplated and what political procedures Her Majesty's Government intend to undertake before contemplating the use of military force?

The Question refers to a Press conference. The purpose of the conference was to draw attention to speculative Press reports, about secret talks, which inaccurately represented the British attitude.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the findings concerning the deaths of Mr. and Mrs. Trist, of Stanford Avenue, Brighton, in a chalet, near Lisbon; what steps he has taken to make sure that the diagnosis of the cause of death at the inquest at Almada was correct; and what assistance has been given to the relatives to enable the bodies to be brought home and to be seen by British doctors.

An official inquiry into the causes of death in this sad case was undertaken by the Portuguese authorities as provided by their law. At his request, Her Majesty's Embassy in Lisbon arranged for a British doctor, who stated that he was acting for the Trists' estate, to discuss the findings with the authorities in charge of the inquiry. Upon hearing the wishes of the relatives, Her Majesty's Embassy in Lisbon immediately made arrangements with local undertakers for the bodies of Mr. and Mrs. Trist to be flown to this country, and I understand that they have now arrived.

In view of the fact that the Portuguese coroner is reported to have stated that there was enough carbon monoxide in Mrs. Trist's body to kill her, presumably from the leakage of the geyser, and in view of the fact that the English doctor who went out there was also informed that there were no poisonous clams along the Portuguese coast at that time of year, and further in view of the fact that this is causing considerable worry in my constituency, will my hon. Friend tell me what are the next steps to be taken?

I understand that there is to be an inquest by the Southwark coroner. To that extent we must regard the matter as still sub judice.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is now in a position to make a further statement about the proposed agreement with the Danish Government about the fishing limits in the Faroes.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is now in a position to make a further statement on the proposed Anglo-Danish agreement concerning fishing limits round the Faroes.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on what date the Anglo-Danish agreement about Faroese fishing limits is expected to take effect; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs when the new agreement reached in relation to the fishing limits in Faroese waters will become effective.

I would refer the hon. Members to the answer given by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to the hon. Member for Banff (Mr. Duthie) on 26th February. The agreement provides for the new arrangements to come into force on signature, for which no date has yet been fixed.

Can my hon. Friend say when the agreement is likely to come into force? Will it be very soon? Will he say that this agreement shows how far the Government and the fishing industry are prepared to go to reach a negotiated solution of these questions?

I can say "Yes" to the last part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question. In reply to the first part of his supplementary question, there is a good deal of preparatory work still to be done before we can bring the agreement into being, and it will have to be done before we sign.

Was the agreement signed on the basis of the conservation of the fishing waters there or was there a fear of the Danes that there might be undue competition if our vessels were allowed to fish there? Further, were any concessions made by the Danes in respect of our concession on over-fishing, of which they are one of the biggest operators in herring in the south North Sea?

I am sure that all those considerations were borne in mind.

While welcoming the fact that an agreement has been reached by negotiation, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he is aware that the denial of this fishing ground to Scottish fishermen will have very serious effects? Will this be taken into account by the Fleck Committee when considering the future of the fishing industry?

I must refer that question to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

Will the Government consider approaching Iceland once again now that it has been shown that by reasonable negotiation some agreement may be reached?

I think the right hon. Gentleman knows that we have made it very clear to Iceland that we are prepared to negotiate. I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has again called attention to this fact.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he is taking to secure the release of Mr. Swinburn and Mr. Zarb, imprisoned by the Egyptian Government.

I have nothing to add to the answer my right hon. and learned Friend gave to my hon. Friend on 12th November.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the spirit of any agreement likely to be signed with the United Arab Republic would be much better if these two men were released?

The question of the release of these two men is different from that of the signing of a financial agreement.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he has taken, as co-Chairman of the Geneva Conference, to call the attention of the Royal Laotian Government to the messages addressed by the two co-Chairmen on 31st January to the Indian Government and to the International Commission for Supervision and Control in Laos.

The texts of the two messages in question were conveyed to the Royal Laotian Government.

Has the Minister's attention been called to a leading article in the New York Times of 23rd February in which it is stated that

"the denunciation of the Geneva Agreements of 1954 by the tiny beleaguered Kingdom of Laos is realistic"?

The Government's position is that we do not believe that the Laotian Government have repudiated the Geneva Agreements.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what reply he has made to the communication sent to him by the Chinese Foreign Minister regarding the attitude of the Royal Laotian Government towards the Geneva agreements and the introduction into Laos of United States arms and military personnel in contravention of those agreements.

No reply has been sent so far.

Will the Minister take into account the undoubted fact that there is substantial American military aid to Laos and that this is probably being done in contravention of the Geneva Agreements? Will he request the Indian Government to reconvene the International Commission for Laos in order that the facts may be investigated and reported?

Nothing has been done in contravention of the Agreements.