asked the Postmaster-General when he expects to be able to eliminate the interference in television reception suffered by the residents of Green Street, High Wycombe.

We have made some progress to that end, but unfortunately, the complete elimination of the interference is not yet in sight. I can assure my hon. Friend that we are not sparing our efforts to deal with this very difficult technical problem, and I should like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation of the help we have received from the manufacturers and users of the offending machines.

Whilst the television owners in the Green Street area of High Wycombe are very grateful to my right hon. Friend for the efforts made by his Ministry to overcome this problem in co-operation with the firm concerned, is he aware that for some considerable time they have been unable to receive television programmes up to 10 o'clock at night? Therefore, as they have paid for something which they have not received for a long time, is my right hon. Friend prepared to make them a refund of part of their licence fee?

Generous as I am by nature, I could not agree to the last part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question. I can assure him that we are making great efforts and that the firm concerned is really helping, but the difficulty is caused by radio frequency heating machines, which are universal in the furniture industry. We hope to overcome it, but whether we shall is another matter.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that holders of radio and television licences in the Warrenpoint, Kilkeel and Annalongy areas of County Down are experiencing poor reception; and what plans the British Broadcasting Corporation have for improving their services.

Suitable receiving aerials are essential to get the best results in this area. With these the Home Service and the Light Programme on medium and long waves should generally be satisfactory, but reception of the V.H.F. sound service and of B.B.C. television will unfortunately be variable because of the screening effect of the Mountains of Mourne. The B.B.C. tells me it regrets that there is nothing it can do at present to improve reception. It will continue to keep the needs of the area in mind.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is another case of people paying licence fees for very little, that the reception is really quite deplorable and that there is now no reason at all why the B.B.C. should not proceed with one of its smaller satellite transmitters to serve this area?

The B.B.C. has a fairly large programme of satellite transmitters and no doubt it will have the needs of this area in mind. At the moment, however, it is a difficult technical problem because of these mountains about which we heard so much in N.A.A.F.I. concerts during the war.

asked the Postmaster-General what measures he now proposes to ensure courtesy and efficiency at post office counters.

As a first step I propose to set up a small committee to advise me whether conditions and procedures at Crown Office counters are the best that can be devised to ensure the efficient, courteous and economical transaction of public business. Both staff and customers will be represented on it, as well as the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, which has the greatest share of our agency services to other Departments.

Will my right hon. Friend make sure that the investigation takes account of the situation arising out of queues in Post Offices, particularly of those people who queue for motor car licences early in the year and those who queue for the payment of pensions and other Welfare State services over the counter?

Certainly I will. That is exactly one of the problems which I had in mind when deciding to appoint this committee.

Will the right hon. Gentleman also take into account the views and advice of the regional advisory committees in view of the fact that the problems may be different in the provinces from the very large towns?

The chairman of the committee is one of the regional directors.

asked the Postmaster-General what further developments there have been in his scheme of interchange of staff between the Post Office and industrial concerns.

Two Post Office men, an administrator and an engineer, have now taken up temporary appointments at I.C.I. Limited and two I.C.I. men have come to the Post Office. The exchange is expected to last for about a year and will, I trust, achieve the same success as has so far attended the interchange of staff between the Post Office and Unilever Ltd. which commenced earlier this year. I am indebted to the board of I.C.I. Limited for its co-operation in making this further experiment possible.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his statement will give widespread satisfaction, and will he take all possible steps to maintain this sphere of co-operation between the Post Office and private industry?

I think it is a good idea because these large firms in private industry are the best customers of the Post Office. If they send some of their men to the Post Office they can have experience of how we work, and vice versa. I am sure that it can do nothing but good.

In view of the fact that the Co-operative movement has just as much experience as the I.C.I., will the right hon. Gentleman co-operate with the co-operators?

Not in view of the report of the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that "No Waiting or Loading" signs in streets in the London, W.1 area are sometimes ignored by drivers of Post Office vans; and if he will take steps to ensure that drivers employed by his Department adhere rigidly to these regulations.

Post Office vehicles are permitted to wait in restricted streets under specified circumstances. I am not aware that Post Office drivers are abusing the regulations, but I should be happy to inquire into any case that my hon. Friend cares to bring to my notice.

Will my right hon. Friend be good enough to instruct drivers to be especially careful in some of the very narrow streets in that part of London where the whole flow of traffic is sometimes held up? I quite appreciate their difficulties, but perhaps they might be a little more careful.

I can assure my hon. Friend and the whole House that it is becoming a nightmare in the West End of London to deliver and collect mails on time, largely because of the waiting cars. The task of the Post Office drivers is made very difficult. The regulations allow Post Office vehicles to wait when mail is being delivered or collected. If my hon. Friend wishes, I will send him a copy of the regulations. I think he will find that we do not abuse them in any way.

Does the Minister appreciate that these drivers have a difficult enough job without being harassed in this House?

I do not think they are harassed in the House. I am quite certain that they have an extremely difficult job, and some of the head postmasters in the West End of London have an even more difficult job to get the mail through on time.

asked the Postmaster-General how many actual and attempted robberies of post offices have taken place during the past year; and how much was stolen.

In 1958-59 there were 28 robberies and 29 attempted robberies. The amount stolen was £7,290.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that these figures are rather disturbing? In order to provide better protection, could not some alarm bell system be provided at all post offices to deter some of the bandits and provide a little more protection for these hardworking public servants?

I do not think that the figures themselves are alarming. The counter transactions are £5,000 million a year, and the losses have been £7,290. Even so, any loss is naturally a source of disquiet. We have a bandit alarm which we are now extending, especially in London, because the risk of attack in the provinces is only about one-tenth of that in London. We are, therefore, equipping offices there first with a new type of bandit alarm which can be operated along the length of the counter.

At all London post offices?

No; we are attending to the worst districts. As the hon. Gentle man knows, some districts in London are worse than others, and it is in the worst districts first that we are giving post offices the benefit of this new system.

Can the right hon. Gentleman break down the figures he has just given to distinguish between Crown post offices and ordinary sub-post office agencies?

Not without notice.

asked the Postmaster-General how many telephone subscribers were among the more than 70 families which have moved from the village of Douglas, in the county of Lanark, since 1st January, 1959.

So far as I know, none. Only one residence telephone has been given up since 1st January, 1959, and I understand that the previous customer is still living in Douglas.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that Answer, but will he try to accommodate incoming key industrial workers who may come to take some of the subsidised houses, of which more than 50 are now vacant, should they need telephones to assist them in their industrial work?

We will do our best. At this particular exchange, the capacity is 150 lines, 117 of which are working. There are eight outstanding applications. There is thus a spare margin of 25 lines, so we shall be able to cope with any applications which are made.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will state the present total capacity of the Douglas telephone exchange; and how many lines he expects will be vacated during the next six months.

The present capacity is 150 lines. One hundred and seventeen lines are in use, this being one more than a year ago. Since 1st January, 1959, eight new applications have been received, and one line has been given up. I cannot anticipate how the position will change in the next six months.

Has my right hon. Friend any view about the number of telephone lines now used by Douglas Castle colliery, which is to be closed down, thus making the lines vacant? How many will be available for incoming industry as a result of this closure?

I cannot answer without notice. Quite apart from that, however, we have enough lines, so I am quite satisfied.

asked the Postmaster-General to what extent the new system of subscriber trunk dialling at Bristol is being used; what is the general reaction to it; and if he will make a statement.

Bristol Central subscribers are now dialling themselves 97 per cent. of their trunk calls to the towns accessible by subscriber trunk dialling, which include about half the telephones in the country, and are making 40 per cent. more calls to these places than they did before.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his encouraging reply. Will he note that his good report is confirmed by the Bristol Chamber of Commerce and other responsible local bodies?

We sent out a questionnaire, and we have received 1,600 replies, nearly all of which have been favourable. When we have analysed them, I propose to give the House some more information about what the telephone users think.

Can the Postmaster-General tell the House when he proposes to extend the Bristol system, in view of the fact that the Bristol people, while they welcome it, are at a distinct financial advantage compared with people in the rest of the country?

The programme is set out in the last White Paper. If the hon. Gentleman reads Appendix A or Appendix B of that, he will see the whole programme set out there. It is put on a rather rough basis, but at any rate it will be in that order. Perhaps the bon. Gentleman would care to look at it.

Will the Postmaster-General now extend the system to Kilmarnock, where we still have the manual exchange system and not the automatic system even for local calls?

I will certainly look at the position in Kilmarnock, which is a most important place.

Hear, hear.

asked the Secretary of State for Air which missile bases were officially visited by Senator Symington of the United States of America during his recent tour of Great Britain.

The Senator visited a missile site near Feltwell.

In what capacity did the Senator make the visit, and will facilities be open to Members of the House?

The Senator made the visit as a distinguished American politician. I should welcome visits from hon. Members of the House.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how many missile bases are up to operational standards.

A number of sites have been completed, but it would not be in the public interest to give figures. As regards the missiles themselves, the position remains as described by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State on 22nd April.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the statement made by Senator Symington when he returned to the United States to the effect that none of the missile bases in Britain was up to operational standards? What has he done to check the accuracy of this statement?

The House has been told many times that Thor missiles at present in this country are used for training and will not become operational until after the successful completion of all the trials going on at Cape Canaveral.

Are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman's reply that Senator Symington has received information about missile bases which is not available to hon. Members?

No, Sir. I have just said that if hon. Members would like to visit one of these missile bases I shall be delighted to show it to them.

The right hon. Gentleman just said that, in the public interest, he could not disclose the information. It now transpires that Senator Symington has the information. Why should Americans be given information denied to us?

All I said was that it would not be in the public interest to disclose how many bases had been completed. That is quite a different matter.

Will the Secretary of Stale make it quite clear that any hon. Member of the House who visits one of these stations—they are R.A.F. stations, not United States stations—will be given all the information which was given to Senator Symington when he recently visited this one?

I am not sure exactly what information was given to him, but I can assure hon. Members that I shall not deny them any information which I think would be in the national interest; but, obviously, there must be some security.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what representations have been received by Her Majesty's Government from the United States Government about the inadequacy of missile bases established in Great Britain.

None, Sir. The United States Secretary of the Air Force has, in fact, expressed his satisfaction with what the two Air Forces have accomplished.

Will the Secretary of State check on what information was made available to Senator Symington and make it available in the Library of the House, and will he say to what extent the United States authorities are responsible for these establishments? In view of the present international situation, would it not be advisable to postpone their development?

The United States authorities are responsible for the provision of the missiles themselves and for the training of our personnel. We are responsible for the building of the sites.

Do not these Questions and Answers and the contradictory statements coming out of Washington by civilians and Service men emphasise once again how undesirable it was for the Government to make an agreement with the United States about these missiles, which brought the Royal Air Force into the party political battles in the United States? Is it not a most regrettable result of this Government agreement that the efficiency of R.A.F. officers and men has been called in question in the United States and that they have been put in a very embarrassing position?

I do not think that the conflict of opinion in the United States is any worse than the conflict of opinion which takes place between the hon. Gentleman and myself across the Floor of this House, and if he is worried about the Air Force view of this matter perhaps he would think about that himself.

asked the Secretary of State for Air how soon he anticipates being able to make a decision on the future róle of Horsham St. Faith's Royal Air Force Station, so that the arrangements concerning the provision of alternative routes to and from Norwich can be decided on.

We hope to put firm proposals to the highway authority very shortly.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of the roads leading into Norwich have been closed for more than twenty years without any satisfactory alternatives being provided and that this announcement today will be very warmly welcomed throughout the county?

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will now make a statement on the representations made to the Mayor of Hamburg on the recent incident concerning Knechtsand Island, North Germany.

Representations were made to the Mayor of Hamburg by H.M. Consul-General last week.

Since the Mayor of Hamburg is a most respected man and normally very reasonable, can the Secretary of State say whether he has yet had any expression of regret from the Mayor for his very inaccurate and rather wild statement?

No, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will state the nature of the agreement that has been arrived at with the United States Air Force as to which targets will be attacked with hydrogen bombs in the event of war.

It would clearly not be in the public interest to give information about targets.

Is the Secretary of State aware that considerable alarm has been displayed in this country owing to statements made in the Press, including a reputable Conservative paper, the Scotsman, which on 8th May said that Britain and the United States have agreed which targets should be attacked with H-bombs in the event of war, and which goes on to say that we have been allocated targets but that we have not enough H-bombs for that? Is not this provocative? Why are the Americans dictating policy which may mean suicide for this country?

While I fully share the hon. Member's respect for the Scotsman, I am sure he will not expect me to comment on newspaper reports.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what effect the opening of the University of the Air is expected to have on the recruiting of aircrew for the Royal Air Force.

The opening of the College cannot reduce the appeal of the Royal Air Force for men who wish to combine flying with the wide experience that Service life provides. These are the men we wish to attract.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many and what proportion of ships in the British fishing fleets are and are not, respectively, fitted with the British Decca system of navigational aids; and what steps he is taking to ensure that new ships and also coal-burning ships converted into oil-burning ships are so equipped.

I am advised that some 900 fishing vessels are so equipped. This represents a high proportion of those vessels which have electric power available and which do their fishing within the coverage of existing Decca chains. Use of the equipment is not compulsory and we do not intend to make it so.

Is it not an anomaly that any shipowners can be found who fail to use this protection against loss and damage, and will the Minister inquire into this anomaly with a view to taking steps by regulation or otherwise to see that the minority who do not use it are obliged to use it in future?

We have to keep the matter in perspective. There are approximately 9,500 British registered fishing vessels, of which about 2,100 are of 40 ft. or more. It is obviously only in the larger size vessels that this aid, which is extremely valuable, would be of use. It is, perhaps, worth noting that grants and loans are available from the White Fish Authority for the installation of generators in fishing vessels to enable them to make use of the Decca receiver.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what was the total contribution made by British shipping, both dry cargo ships and oil tankers, for each of the past five years, to the invisible exports of the United Kingdom; and what official action is being taken to develop and encourage this industry.

It is estimated that the United Kingdom dry cargo shipping industry made net contributions to the United Kingdom balance of payments of £210 million in 1954, £240 million in 1955, £280 million in 1956 and £300 million in 1957. The provisional estimate for 1958 is £260 million. Similar estimates are not available for oil tankers. It is the Government's policy to encourage the expansion of world trade upon which the prosperity of British shipping depends.

Is the Minister aware that this is a very substantial contribution to the country's revenue but that there are obstacles in the way of this industry developing? Is he aware that hon. Members have expressed in the House their dissatisfaction with the help given by the State? Will he take steps to overcome the difficulties in the way of development of the industry?

There are a number of difficulties affecting the industry which are not within our power to deal with. There are, for example, the trading practices of some of the maritime nations, as the House very well knows. We are doing what we can in conjunction with other maritime nations in Europe to investigate these to see whether some international agreement cannot be reached.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation on what grounds he has decided that the Roker Volunteer Life Brigade shall not be allowed to use rescue rockets for drills.

There has been a delay in the supply of rescue rockets for the use of Her Majesty's Coastguard and the Life Saving Brigades and Companies, but further supplies are expected in July. This has made it prudent to stop practice firings at drills for the time being. Existing stocks are ample for operational needs.

I am much obliged to the hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is he aware that his Department apparently has caused the mistaken view to be taken that this has been due to economy? Is he aware that the explanation could well serve a useful purpose in ensuring that the initiative and public spirit of these volunteers are not discouraged?

I welcome the opportunity of paying tribute to the volunteers to whom the hon. Member refers and of saying that the last batch in supply was found to be faulty, which was the reason for this temporary breakdown. As I have said, by July we hope that things will be back to normal.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps he proposes to take in order to secure agreement among shipowners in regard to a policy for replacing certain existing merchant ships; and if he will make a statement.

The replacement of merchant ships is primarily a matter for their owners. Where the Government is asked to take special action in the matter, I shall naturally keep in close touch with the industry.

Has the right hon. Gentleman been in consultation at all with his hon. Friend the Civil Lord of the Admiralty, with whom I pressed this matter? I was referred to the right hon. Gentleman to pursue it. Can he say whether or not some policy is being devised for the replacement of existing ships, or will he consider it, as the United Kingdom shipbuilding industry is now in a most serious state with regard to new orders? Will he think about the matter?

I have several meetings this week with the Chamber of Shipping which are concerned with, for example, these international arrangements which we and other European nations think are very harmful to the shipping industry as a whole. It is in that sort of way that I hope we shall be able to help.

Does my right hon. Friend think that when he receives proposals from the Chamber of Shipping, and if he finds himself in agreement with them, he will be able to get support from the Chancellor of the Exchequer to do what is right by our industry?

I was not referring to subsidies.

Nor was I.

I was thinking of trying to improve the trading arrangements around the world so as to enable British shipowners to get more business.

Even if the shipping industry is unable to put forward an agreed set of proposals, does not my right hon. Friend think that it is incumbent upon the Government to take such steps as they can to ensure that when the present serious recession declines the country will be in possession of a fast, modern, powerful and economic merchant fleet? Is this not of first importance to the country as a whole?

I do not disagree with anything that my hon. Friend has said, but the first problems with which we have to try to deal are those which are best summarised in the terms "flag of convenience" and "flag discrimination". It is those things which militate against the future development of the British shipping industry. It is to those things that I am giving my attention in co-operation with the Chamber of Shipping, and we hope soon to make some powerful representations to the American Government on this matter.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will state the result of the study undertaken jointly by his Department and that of the Secretary of State for Air into the future use of the Royal Air Force station at Aldergrove, County Antrim; and whether he will make a statement as to the future of Belfast Airport.

My right hon. Friend expects to receive the report on the study very shortly. I am not therefore in a position to make a statement today.

Could my hon. Friend say, when work is started to transfer Belfast Airport to Alder-grove, how long it will take? Will he bear very seriously in mind the fear among the present employees of any redundancy arising out of such transfer?

Yes. If we do decide, in the light of this report, to develop Alder-grove in place of Nutt's Corner it should take, I think, about two to three years before it can be completed. I will certainly keep in mind the point which my hon. and learned Friend made about employment, about which he asked a Question some time ago.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if, in view of the rapid development of air transport and helicopter services, he will take steps to develop helicopter stations near large cities, or give powers to local authorities to develop them where they think it desirable in the interests of the city.

My right hon. Friend is watching with the greatest interest the development of the helicopter, but the local authorities are generally in the best position to provide helicopter stations near large cities. They already have the necessary powers, and I am glad that many have, with the Ministry's advice, already earmarked sites.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the experiments which have been made with helicopters have all proved very successful and that some local authorities already have aerodromes and that local authorities want to develop these aerodromes but cannot do anything without assistance and encouragement from the State? Would the hon. Gentleman take the matter up with the Treasury with a view to getting assistance for local authorities to develop aerodromes?

We have given local authorities every encouragement and advice we possibly can. We published a pamphlet in 1956 on the planning of air stations for single-engine helicopters, and we have given further advice to 119 local authorities, including Bristol Corporation. I do not think it would be proper for me in answer to this Question to say that we would be willing to ask the Treasury or anyone else to make grants available, because this matter is still very much in the experimental stage.

Could my hon. Friend state quite clearly whether his Ministry would be prepared to accept any proposition by private interests to develop the use of helicopters throughout Britain, or is the future restricted to the national undertakings?

No. On the contrary, there is already one helicopter station, which I had the pleasure of opening a few days ago in London, which is operated by a private firm. There is nothing whatever to stop a private firm opening a helicopter station if it wishes, provided it can obtain the necessary planning permission, but our view is that this is a matter which, broadly, should be left to local authorities.

Is the Minister aware that what local authorities want to know, when they are contemplating providing helicopter stations, is what the likely helicopter services are going to be? Does he share the optimism of my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, Central (Mr. Awbery), who refers to the "rapid development of helicopter services"? Is he aware that it is now eight years since I had the privilege of inaugurating the first service between London and Birmingham? What advice has he given to local authorities about the likely outcome of inter-city services during the next ten years?

I think the hon. Gentleman knows that, quite apart from promotional or experimental schemes, helicopter services are just not economic and will not be till we get the bigger machines, like the Rotodyne, in service. We have to wait till that time comes. When it does, we shall be willing to consider what help we can give in developing the service.

Will the hon. Gentleman remember that areas where helicopters could be most serviceable are in the Highlands of Scotland, where transport by any other means is not very easy? Can he see any objection now to helicopters flying across water, in view of the fact that it seems to have been disposed of, as we read in the Press about air-sea rescue services and so on? Yet there seems to be a barrier to using helicopters to fly passengers across narrow waterways.

No, There is no barrier. The main trouble at the moment is that a helicopter service would not pay if it were based on the single-engine helicopter, since the sort of prices which would have to be charged for carriage would be so high that the ordinary traveller could not be expected to pay it. We have to wait till the bigger helicopters come into service, for they will be more economic. We can then look at the Highlands and Islands, and so on..

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation (1) if he will investigate the question of Aer Lingus flights originating in the Republic of Ireland being permitted to uplift passengers from the United Kingdom and transport them to the Continent, when private operators have been refused permission to operate services to transport British passengers over similar routes;

Our agreements with the Irish Republican authorities already provide for flights between our two countries and beyond on a broad basis of reciprocity. If my hon. Friend has any particular case in mind where he considers the arrangements are not working satisfactorily and he will send me details, I shall be glad to investigate the matter.

Is my hon. Friend aware that on the continental flights from Ireland Aer Lingus actually uplifts more passengers from the United Kingdom than it takes on board in Ireland? In those circumstances, is it not absurd to deny to private operators the right to transport those passengers from the United Kingdom to the Continent over similar routes?

Without notice, I could not comment on the figures mentioned by my hon. Friend, but, as I have explained, we have this agreement with the Irish authorities. It provides for reciprocal treatment, but if it happens that geography comes into it to some extent I am afraid that that is one of the consequences of geography itself. However, I am quite satisfied that the Irish Republic and Aer Lingus do not get any tremendous advantage out of this, because British airlines can operate in Ireland and do so.

A very good impromptu answer.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation if he will specify the nature and number of the complaints he has received, and from whom they came, about the loss and inconvenience caused to travellers to and from the north-east of Scotland to London by the unsuitability of the airports at Edinburgh and Glasgow, which involve travellers in delay waiting for connections; and if he will specify the suggestions he has received from such travellers and from experts to resolve these complaints by obviating the delay.

As I informed the hon. and learned Member on 6th May, we are not aware of any long delays or of any unsuitability of the facilities at these airports which might tend to create delays in this service. We have received no complaints or suggestions on the subject.

Does the hon. Gentleman not realise that this is a long-standing grievance and an interference with the keeping of appointments in London and with the fulfilment of contracts? Will he look into this and see that business is properly served by obviating the delay which undoubtedly exists?

I find it difficult to follow the hon. and learned Member's supplementary question yin view of the Question he has asked about whether we have had complaints about the loss and inconvenience caused to travellers through the unsuitability of the airports involving travellers in delay. I can answer only for airports. If the hon. and learned Gentleman is complaining about schedules operated by B.E.A., I cannot answer be-ruse, as he knows, that is a matter of the day-to-day working of British European Airways.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how the independent reviewing body into Captain Thain's case will be constituted; what will be its terms of reference; and who will be members of it.

I have in mind that the reviewing body should consist of a Queen's Counsel; one person with appropriate scientific qualifications and a third person with flying experience. Their task will be to consider the representations made by Captain Thain, and their precise terms of reference are now under consideration. Before finalising the arrangements for this independent review, I am waiting to know what action the German authorities propose to take on the further evidence by Captain Thain which has been submitted to them.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the inquiry will be held in public, or that at least a report will be published at the end of it? Will he also say that, pending the result of the report of the inquiry, his letter of 12th March, threatening to suspend the licence on renewal, can be considered as withdrawn?

The present position is that I do not propose to take any further action until we see whether the German authorities will agree to review this case. Obviously, if they should care to make any moves then it would be very much in Captain Thain's interest that no further action should be taken by my Ministry until we know whether or not the Germans are willing to change their views. As to the question of what we should do if we hold an inquiry, I will certainly study carefully what my hon. Friend has said. As to the letter to Captain Thain, that was not a threat to withdraw his licence. It was, I think, a very necessary warning so that he could take the action which he is now taking, that he should raise any matters in his defence if he thought there were any, so that my Ministry might consider them.

I am sure that those in the House who have followed this case will be satisfied with the course of action which the Minister now proposes to take. In view of the fact that this is the first inquiry his Department has made into the accident, does he not think that the letter which he sent to this pilot was premature and that it has prejudiced the pilot's career? What justification was there for sending that letter to him and to his employers prior to an inquiry being made by his Department?

The answer to the first part of the question is that I do not think it has prejudiced Captain Thain's career. As the hon. Gentleman knows, his employers, British European Airways have taken no action in this matter. Secondly, I thought it right and in his interests that he should have had the earliest possible warning that my Ministry might well consider the question of his licence. I think that has been in his interests, because it has enabled him to raise these other matters on which it is at least possible that the German inquiry will be re-opened.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation under what circumstances he permits passengers to disembark from an aircraft when it touches down at an airport other than its scheduled destination.

Provided a foreign aircraft enjoys traffic rights in the United Kingdom on the service in question, passengers are allowed to disembark at any point to which the aircraft is diverted. Foreign aircraft without traffic rights in the United Kingdom are allowed to disembark passengers where the aircraft is unable to proceed with its journey, or where exceptional hardship would otherwise be caused to the passengers.

Yes, Sir, but could the hon. Gentleman say something about our own aircraft, those belonging to B.O.A.C.? Is he aware that on a recent flight across the North Atlantic the chairman and secretary of the Scottish Council of Development and Industry were unable to land at Prestwick as it was not the scheduled destination but had to travel on to London and then go back to Glasgow by train? Why was that so?

It was because the gentlemen concerned chose to travel by the Canadian Pacific Airways flight Vancouver-Amsterdam, which does not provide for anything other than a technical stop at Prestwick. Normally, it goes straight through, and since that line does not enjoy the right to set down and pick up passengers in the United Kingdom on that route it was natural that the passengers should have expected to go on to Amsterdam and return to London—in fact, many people do that.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what steps are taken by his Department to ensure that companies granted a licence to carry out aircraft overhaul and maintenance continue to observe the technical standards required.

Organisations carrying out overhauls, repairs, replacements and modifications of civil aircraft are approved for these purposes on behalf of my Department by the Air Registration Board who regularly supervise them to ensure that proper technical standards are maintained.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the impression created in the country now is that, while he is very quick off the mark to challenge the right of a pilot to hold a licence, he seems reluctant to take action in certain cases affecting companies charged with the responsibility for maintenance? In the light of recent incidents and criticism that has been made in public, can he say whether the inspection either by or on behalf of the A.R.B. into the maintenance schedules is carried out at sufficiently regular intervals?

If the hon. Gentleman is referring to a case which has recently been in the public notice, I certainly am not prepared to comment on it until I have received a report of the inquiry. As to the general issue which the hon. Gentleman has raised, I do not think that is so at all. My judgment is that, in general, these inspections of the approved firms and the general review of the schedules is carried out very strictly by the A.R.B.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he is aware of the continued anxiety of the public at the delay in starting the construction of the by-pass at Wall, Staffordshire; what reply he intends sending to the Lichfield Rural District Council in reply to their letter of 24th April; and what progress has been made concerning the undertaking he gave to the hon. Member for Lichfield and Tamworth on 18th February, 1959.

The necessary Order establishing the route for the Wall by-pass scheme will soon be made and the Staffordshire County Council, as our agent authority, will then he invited to prepare the scheme to the contract letting stage. The date when constructional work can be started will depend on the funds available and the time it takes to acquire the necessary land. I cannot be precise at this stage, but the scheme will be proceeded with as soon as practicable.

Is the Joint Parliamentary Secretary aware that the answer sounds all right but that I hope that the delays which are implied in it will not be as disastrous as they sound? Is he aware that this matter has been the subject of Parliamentary Questions on several previous occasions? Does he not agree that his Department must look at this problem urgently? This is theoretically a main road and, by general consensus of local opinion, is at present regarded as extremely dangerous?

What I have said in the substantive reply is the fact. We wish to proceed with this matter as quickly as possible. The hon. Member will know that there was an objection, which we have been considering, to the draft line. We hope to be able to clear that in the course of the next few weeks. I rather hope that we might be making the order this month. It is our intention then to proceed with all speed with the preparatory stages of acquiring land. We fully realise how important it is to get all this done.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many persons were killed and how many injured, respectively, in road accidents per thousand registered vehicles using the roads in the years 1938, 1948 and 1958, or the latest convenient year for which the figures are available.

The figures are 2.2 and 74.0 in 1938, 1.3 and 42.5 in 1948 and 0.8 and 39.2 in 1958.

Can my hon. Friend say whether, notwithstanding the still very high accident rate, these figures indicate there has been a progressive improvement in the standards of driving and also in the safety devices incorporated in the design of motor vehicles?

I think that they have some element of encouragement in them to the devoted band of people who do road safety work, but the total figures of killed and injured are so high, as my right hon. Friend has just said, that none of us has reason to be complacent.

Would it not be better to give the actual figures in addition to percentages or rates per thousand? There has been such a big increase in the amount of traffic on the roads compared with 1938, that a better perspective might be provided if actual figures were given instead of a comparison based on percentages.

I have answered the Question on the Paper. If the hon. Member would like an answer to that point, perhaps he will table a Question.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation how many miles of roads in England and Wales, respectively, have double white lines; to what extent this system is to be extended; and if he will make a statement about the results of the experimental system to date.

In England about 450 miles and in Wales 80 miles of road have been marked on the new system, which will be progressively extended to all trunk and classified roads over the next few years. There is evidence that the demonstration lengths, unsupported by penalties, have improved traffic behaviour; I am satisfied that the extension of the system, on a mandatory basis, will promote the smoother and safer movement of traffic.

Has my right hon. Friend received representations as a result of any difficulties which have arisen so far from the experimental system

No, Sir, none of a major nature.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that on some roads the line painting is so divergent as to force a driver into the ditch in order to avoid breaking the law by crossing one of the lines? Will he look into that point?

I will certainly look into any examples which my noble Friend can give me.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what advice he has received on the new double white lines on roads in conditions of fog or very heavy rain; and what account his new regulations will take of difficulties which may arise in such conditions.

Special care is always necessary in conditions of fog or heavy rain, and in such conditions motorists will find the new double white lines at bends and elsewhere more helpful than the single existing lines.

Yes, but is it proposed in suitable cases where the lines are on bends in roads to put double studs—cats' eyes—in case the ordinary white lines are not seen by the motorist?

I am not quite clear what my hon. Friend wants to know, but if his question is directed to cats' eyes, we intend to continue using them just as we do now, and the cats' eyes will be placed where there are double white lines—

Double cats' eyes?

—in between the double white lines on the road, in a single line.

Is there not a distinction between white lines which one must not cross and cats' eyes which one seeks to follow in thick weather, and ought not the cats' eyes to be put in two lines in the track where one is driving and not in the centre of the road?

We have considered that, but we think on the whole that it would be less confusing to have a single line of cat's eyes.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what caused the delay in acquiring the land required for the road improvements of the Strood High Street from Rochester bridge to the railway bridge on the London-Canterbury-Dover trunk A.2 road.

Negotiations for the purchase of the land in this case have proved exceptionally difficult, and objections have been made to the draft compulsory purchase order. The scheme includes 21 plots of land of which 15 are business premises.

Why is the Minister so unsympathetic to the traffic problems of the Medway towns? Is he aware that the fact is clearly established that the bypass road ought to have been started before any other road? Secondly, is he aware that when the Rochester City Council is trying to got land to ease the road problems in this area his Department, with another Government Department, is niggling over a small amount of money, causing delay and great consternation in the city?

Perhaps I might ask: Why is the right hon. Gentleman so unsympathetic to the rights of private property holders who are affected by this scheme? I must say that people who have property—businesses, houses and farms—in the line of roads have every right to object and to have their objections heard, and I will not take any steps which will stand in their way.

Is it not a fact that the only outstanding difficulty now is one which concerns the Minister and the district valuer, that it is over a petty amount and that if this could be settled the road could be constructed?

A public inquiry has been arranged for 27th May, and so I should not comment further.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation whether he will invite the Road Research Laboratory and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents to initiate research into the value of different types of road safety slogans for display on wayside posters.

The programme of the Road Research Laboratory is very full and research in this subject would necessarily be extensive, but the right hon. Member's suggestion will be borne in mind when additions to the programme are under consideration.

I am glad to hear that. Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the present type of platitudinous slogan which says "Good driving pays" is a complete waste of effort, time and money? Would he not also agree that the selection of posters of this sort should not be left to amateurs but should be decided upon by experts on the basis of research? In view of the fact that effective posters can play quite a big part in reducing the toll of road accidents, is it not worth while initiating at an early date proper research into this problem?

The kind of poster used must be to some extent a matter of opinion, but I do not accept at all the right hon. Gentleman's aspersions on the present road safety programme, which, incidenally, is under the title "Be a better driver". I think that is a sensible appeal to thousands of new drivers coming on the roads. It is the view of experts, not amateurs, that if everybody became better drivers we should save many lives.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that the psychological approach to the public on any matter is most appropriately dealt with by experts in psyhcological approaches, namely, advertising and publicity firms? What can the Road Research Laboratory or anybody else be but amateurs in this respect?

I am willing, and the Department is willing, to accept help from anybody who can reduce some of the very tragic toll of life on the roads. The programme this year has been carefully conceived to appeal to drivers of motor vehicles, until July, when we propose to run again the theme of "Mind that child". I think that it is the right programme. Hon. Members will know that the local authorities are strongly supporting it, and perhaps I can persuade hon. Members to play their part too.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation which categories of persons are not covered by compulsory third-party insurance to motor-car drivers.

Broadly speaking, under section 36 of the Road Traffic Act, 1930, third-party insurance is not compulsory in respect of persons in the employ of the owner or other user of a motor vehicle, or, with certain statutory exceptions, private passengers.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this would seem to indicate that there is a gap in the existing legislation? Is it not a fact that passengers who are riding in a car, the driver of which is involved in an accident and held to be responsible, have no rights under third-party insurance and may, therefore, not be able to get compensation for injury? Should not that fact be made more widely known or an attempt made to cover it by legislation?

I think it is generally known. Consideration has been given as to whether or no that extension should be made, but the thought behind the present situation is that the passenger knowingly takes the risk of travelling in the car with the driver, whereas in the case of the individual who is injured on the road by a car driven into him it is fortuitous.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what was the total number of motor cycles, auto-cycles, motor scooters and similar vehicles which were licensed in the United Kingdom at the latest convenient date; what were the total numbers in 1949 and 1939, respectively; and what is his estimate of the number which will be licensed in 1969.

The number of motor cycles of all types licensed in Great Britain in the September quarter of 1958 was 1,475,101. Figures for 1939 are not available but the corresponding figures for 1938 and for 1949 were 443,651 and 634,536. If the number continues to increase at the rate of the years 1948 to 1958 there would be over 24 million by 1969.

Might not these figures be taken as one of many signs of the very remarkable rise in the standard of living which has occurred during the lifetime of this Government?

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation when he expects to receive the report of the appropriate consultative committee regarding the proposed closing of the Keighley and Oxenhope branch line railway; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that no proposal for this line has yet been submitted to the Transport Users' Consultative Committee for the Yorkshire Area.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the loss on this branch line is negligible, being in the region of £1,200 per annum, that economies have already been agreed between the staff which would avoid that loss, and that if this line is closed it will literally isolate parts of my constituency in heavy, snowy weather?

It is not for me to bear in mind that important information, but I am sure the Transport Commission will take note of what the hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation to make a statement on the railway accident at Slough on 1st May, 1959.

At 7.25 p.m. on Friday, 1st May, the 1.5 p.m. express train from Pembroke Dock to Paddington was approaching Slough station at about 70 m.p.h. when one of the bogies near the middle of the train was derailed when it passed over a broken rail. The last six coaches were completely derailed about 300 yards further on and one turned over on its side. The coupling parted between the third and fourth coaches and the front portion ran forward for another half a mile until stopped by the vacuum brake which came on automatically as a result of the parting. I am glad to say that although the train was crowded there were very few casualties—six persons were taken to hospital with minor injuries and fifteen others suffered from slight cuts or shock. The injured passengers received prompt aid and the others were conveyed to Paddington in a relief train.

While I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that very full statement, may I ask whether the inquiry which is taking place will be not merely into the causes of the accident but into the causes of the very happy event of so few casualties? Is it not the case that the fact that the train was equipped with buckeye couplings prevented the coaches from being scattered and turning over? If this is the case, will the right hon. Gentleman seek to extend throughout the whole of our railway system a device which prevents loss of life in this way?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, my Chief Inspecting Officers of Railways have very wide terms of reference, and their reports can make recommendations to the Commission, and customarily do so. I do not think the hon. Gentleman is wrong in his estimate of what saved a great many lives. It shows how the railway modernisation plan may well save lives as well as improve the railway system.

asked the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation what reports he has had from the appropriate area consultative committee about the closing of branch railway lines serving Leek, Staffordshire; whether he is aware that the proposed closure of these lines will drastically curtail Leek's transport facilities; and whether he will make a statement.

I understand that since 1956 the British Transport Commission has put no proposals to the West Midland Transport Users' Consultative Committee for the closure of railway lines serving Leek.

We are fully aware that the Leek-Churnet line is to be closed. Is the Minister aware that the very active town of Leek, with its important industries, is completely cut off by rail from Manchester, Derby, Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield? Is it not time that we looked into the whole purpose of the railway system? Ought not hon. Members on both sides of the House to ask themselves: is it to be a social service or must it all the time make a profit?

I explained in answer to a previous Question that these points are not for me to answer. I do not doubt that the British Transport Commission will take note of what the hon. Gentleman has had to say.

Will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that there has been no change in the procedure and that where it is proposed that a line shall be closed the matter is referred to the appropriate consultative committee? Is this not the second time today that lie has said that he is not aware of these proposals and that they have not been referred to the committee? Apparently there are proposals and these closures are taking place. Has there been any change in the procedure?

There has been no change in procedure. I do not doubt that there are many rumours when the B.T.C. is contemplating action of this kind, but neither in this case nor in the other have any proposals been put to the consultative committee.

Is the Minister aware that the Government are entirely responsible for the British Transport Commission now running at a loss of about £90 million a year and that it is appalling that the Commission should have to close down branch lines and stations when they are showing a slight deficiency? Will he not have further consultations with his colleagues and with the Commission so that the people in the areas concerned can have a better deal than they are now having?

I do not for a minute accept the implications in the hon. Member's question. For one thing, but for the fact that the Government are financing the larger part of the £1,500 million modernisation scheme British Railways would not be running at all.