asked the Minister of Works what steps are being taken to restore and utilise Boston Manor, Brentford.

On the advice of the Historic Buildings Council for England, I have offered Brentford and Chiswick Borough Council a grant not exceeding £2,000, to meet 50 per cent. of the cost of structural repairs to Boston Manor House. I hope that this will enable them to restore the house and bring it back into use.

asked the Minister of Works what progress has taken place with the proposals for reconstruction of Nos. 10, 11 and 12 Downing Street.

The Royal Fine Art Commission has been consulted about the proposals and has expressed itself well satisfied with the lines on which the architect is working. Mr. Erith is now developing his plans further.

asked the Minister of Works whether he is yet in a position to make a further statement regarding the memorial to Marshal of the Royal Air Force the Viscount Trenchard.

I have now received the report of the Committee which I appointed to advise me on the memorial. The Committee has unanimously recommended that Mr. William McMillan should be commissioned to make a bronze statue of Lord Trenchard, that the statue should be sited in the gardens to be laid out on the river frontage of the new Air Ministry building in Whitehall, and that Mr. McMillan should work in conjunction with Sir Albert Richardson, who has very kindly offered to design the pedestal for the statue.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his statement will give great satisfaction to both past and present members of the Royal Air Force, and the public as a whole, in view of the fact that it is a recognition of the very great services rendered by Lord Trenchard to this country?

I am much obliged to my hon. and gallant Friend for what he has said.

asked the Minister of Works whether as a result of the excavations undertaken at Stonehenge last year, he is now in a position to make a statement regarding the date of the building of Stonehenge.

As a result of excavations at Stonehenge last year, the date of the last phase of the building of Stonehenge is put between 1860 and 1560 B.C. This confirms the date already accepted by archaeologists.

Does the Minister appreciate that these excavations and a report of the Ancient Monuments Board have attracted a great deal of attention? The public will be glad of this confirmation as a result of the excavations that his Ministry have undertaken.

I am very much obliged to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. These works have been carried out under the advice of the Ancient Monuments Board, which contains most of the most eminent archaeologists in this country. These works have been extremely skilfully carried out by architects of my Department and the archaeologists.

Is an attempt being made to date the earlier phase of the building of Stonehenge?

That is obviously more difficult. The archaeologists have tried to discover when the earlier buildings were completed, but I think the purpose of the Question was to refer to the antlers which were found and used on the second rebuilding of Stonehenge and, therefore, tend only to confirm the date of the second rebuilding.

asked the Minister of Works what further steps, in view of the recent report of the Ancient Monuments Board, he is proposing to take for the prevention of destruction of scheduled monuments.

The Ancient Monuments Board has recommended that, as a long-term project, all scheduled ancient monuments should be clearly marked with the object of avoiding unintentional damage such as sometimes occurs, for instance, in the course of agricultural operations. My right hon. Friend has arranged for a small number of the more important monuments to be so marked. When this limited programme is completed, he will consider what more should be done.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary consider the desirability of expediting the programme as much as possible? If the co-operation of the public is to be secured in protecting these ancient monuments, it is obviously desirable that they should be marked as such.

My right hon. Friend has a lot of sympathy for the hon. Gentleman's point, but he has to take account of the cost. The cost is about £10 for each monument, and as there are 10,000 of them he must consider the cost involved.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will have the two large wall paintings in the Royal Gallery cleaned.

No, Sir. These paintings were cleaned last year and do not yet require further cleaning.

Has the Parliamentary Secretary looked at them recently? Is he aware that they are both so dark that it is quite difficult to tell which represents Trafalgar and which Waterloo? As these paintings are of considerable interest to visitors to the House, cannot the hon. Gentleman take some steps to have them properly cleaned?

I understand the reaction of the right hon. Gentleman. I looked at these paintings carefully when his Question appeared on the Order Paper. Apparently the trouble is in the paint itself. The chemical changes in the content of the paint have made the pictures fade. There is no question of their being cleaned to bring out the colours again. This is not a new question; it was the subject of reports in 1895, 1896 and 1906. It is not just a matter of cleaning, but of the chemical deterioration of the paint itself, which gives the faded appearance which I recognise exists.

Does that mean that they cannot be made cleaner than they are today? They are useless now.

It means that the only solution would be to have them repainted. They cannot be restored by cleaning, so to restore them completely would be terribly expensive.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, in view of Russian advances in some aspects of scientific research on iron and steel technology, what steps have been taken to encourage the exchange of scientific information and experience on this subject between this country and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

In addition to the normal arrangements made for exchanges of technical literature, preliminary visits were exchanged towards the end of last year between the British Iron and Steel Research Association, which is the cooperative research organisation grant-aided by the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research, and a corresponding research organisation in the U.S.S.R. Consequently it was agreed by the two organisations that there should be exchange visits by small groups of specialists to study certain facets of metallurgical research.

Have any of these exchange visits actually taken place? If so, what subjects of particular interest to the British team were discussed?

The first British group, who were specialists in the continuous casting of steel, visited Russia in April, and we expect the Russian group to visit this country in June, but I cannot give the exact date.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what steps the Government are taking to ensure that the value of scientific cinematography is fully appreciated in this country; and to what extent the work done in Russia in this respect has been studied.

The Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has recognised the importance of this subject by holding a conference in London under the title of "The Cine Camera and Industrial Research" in April last year. It was attended by over 300 representatives of research organisations. An appreciable amount of information on the extensive use in U.S.S.R. of cine films for scientific purposes was obtained at the Twelfth Congress of the International Scientific Film Association held in Moscow in September last year.

I thank my hon. Friend for that information, but what of the future? His answer was concerned with the past.

The Twelfth Congress was in Moscow and the thirteenth will be in Oxford and London this year. We have undertaken to finance it to the extent of £2,500, provided industry finds an equivalent amount.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, whether the Water Pollution Research Laboratory of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has yet investigated the treatment of slaughterhouse wastes, which can cause serious pollution of rivers; and if he will make a statement.

The Laboratory is investigating a method of disposal known as anaerobic digestion. A small pilot scale plant has been in operation for approximately a year. The information so far obtained is hopeful and there is a good prospect that it will be worth while building and testing one or more full-scale plants; further developments would depend on the results obtained from these.

I thank my hon. Friend for that information, but can he give an assurance that the knowledge will be brought to the attention of local authorities and all other persons or bodies who can make use of it?

Certainly. This new treatment means that a smaller plant can do the job, which will mean a great saving in cost. I can assure my hon. Friend that this will be made well known, so that all who can profit from it will have an opportunity of doing so.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what research has been carried out on the susceptibility of pre stressed concrete to damage by fire.

The Joint Fire Research Organisation of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research and the Fire Offices Committee has, in cooperation with the Building Research Station, carried out research on the resistance to fire of prestressed concrete beams and floors. As a result, early fears about the ability of this new form of construction to withstand fire have been shown to be unfounded.

I thank my hon. Friend for that most important announcement. Will the Government now ensure that the fire-restistant properties of prestressed concrete are made more widely known?

Yes. The results of this work are to be published in a code of practice by the British Standards Institution, but perhaps the best compliment which can be paid to its efficacy is the fact that it has been chosen for a large new laboratory for the Fire Research Station which is designed to carry out fire experiments.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, to what extent the Water Pollution Research Laboratory of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has investigated the treatment of electroplating wastes, particularly those containing cyanides.

Full-scale chemical treatment plant has been installed in many factories and, in addition, pilot scale experiments have shown that certain types of cyanide waste can be treated by a biological process which, in suitable conditions, may be cheaper. This has yet to be confirmed in a full scale plant.

I thank my hon. Friend for that information, but will he ensure that this knowledge is brought to the attention of the firms concerned, so that they will not spend a lot of unnecessary money on expensive plant when something cheaper is just as good?

Certainly. The results obtained so far have been very widely published, and after the experiments have been confirmed greater efforts will be made to see that people who can profit from it have all the details of it.

May I draw the Minister's attention to the number of Questions on the Order Paper asking for research to be undertaken? Is the Minister aware of the growing tendency for the taxpayer to pay for research in industry—in shipping, steel, coal, transport, and now in this type of industry? In other words, we are reaching the stage of society where we socialise the losses and "privatise" the profits. Is it not time that private enterprise did a bit?

In answer to that general proposition, I would say that when private industry makes use of these research projects it makes a contribution to the cost. Usually, research is based upon the fact that industry makes a contribution equivalent to that of the taxpayers.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Works, as representing the Lord President of the Council, what facilities are available within the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research to help in the design of hydraulic machinery which can efficiently be used in hydro-electric pump-storage schemes.

For this purpose the National Engineering Laboratory of the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research has installed special rigs for testing pump models, up to 300 h.p., very accurately over a wide range of working conditions, including those met with in pump-storage schemes.

Is my hon. Friend sure that industry is making proper use of these important facilities?

Yes, I think so. Indeed, nine firms have taken advantage of this rig, and everything points to the fact that the results they have obtained will encourage more people to do so.

Are we to take it that this is something new, or is it an improvement on what has been contemplated in connection with the hydro-electric pump-storage scheme at Loch Sloy? Are we to take it as certain that the very latest methods will be employed in connection with this scheme?

I think that this is rather an improvement on the past. Although I would not like to be held to it in answer to a supplementary question, I do not think there is anything specifically new about it. But a lot of thought has been given to the provision of test equipment to avoid waste of electricity in off-peak periods. Those pumps may be used in a process which has been explained to the House in the past.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of the satisfactory results which flowed to the Aberdeen fishing industry from the Inter national Fisheries Trade Fair held in Copenhagen in September, 1957, if he will now promote a similar international fisheries trade fair in Scotland; and what are his present plans to extend Scottish products in this way.

As the hon. and learned Member knows, I passed on his suggestion for an international fisheries trade fair in Scotland to the Scottish Council (Development and Industry). I understand, however, that the Council is at present unable to undertake any further commitments.

Will the Secretary of State bear in mind that such a fair may have three important results: it may pave the way towards agreement on territorial waters, a much disputed matter; it may reduce international tension over fisheries; and it may result in the creation of new markets on a reciprocal basis between the Scandinavian countries and Britain?

I doubt whether a single trade fair would go far in achieving these very admirable aims. I am sure that Scottish merchants need no encouragement from me to advertise the high quality of their fish in markets overseas.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state his plans for assisting the extension of the tourist industry in Scotland during 1959 and 1960.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what immediate steps he proposes to take to co-ordinate existing plans for developing Scottish tourism; and if he will himself initiate a drive to stimulate this trade and prepare for its adequate hospitality.

The stimulation of the tourist trade in Scotland, and the coordination of the various plans for developing that trade, are undertaken primarily by the Scottish Tourist Board. I am at present discussing with the Board the best means of improving the organisation of accommodation and facilities for tourists in the Highlands, and I hope to tell the House before long the result of these discussions.

I thank the Minister for that answer. Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that there are at least two aspects which still need development: the seasonal one of ski-ing in winter and pony trekking in summer; and the development of the hotels, including the provision of better roads for the tourists?

The Scottish Tourist Board and the Scottish Council for Physical Recreation have already had some success in encouraging sports such as the hon. and learned Gentleman has mentioned. D.A.T.A.C. assistance is available for hotels, and I intend to press on with the roads programme already announced.

Is not the Secretary of State of opinion that the time is coming when this matter should be surveyed as a comprehensive problem? For example, in addition to the development of facilities for the carriage of cars to Perth by rail, could not provision be made for the hiring of caravans in which to tour the Highlands, pending the provision of hotel accommodation? Does not it appear desirable to the Secretary of State to set up a comprehensive inquiry into the best way to develop the tourist industry in order to ensure that its growing potentialities are not lost?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman on the importance on the matters he has mentioned. They are the kind of things which I am discussing with the Scottish Tourist Board.

Is my right lion. Friend aware that a great deal of the attractiveness of Scotland arises from the fact that it is not over-run by tourists? Will he keep in mind a proper balance in this matter, lest some of the magic of that wonderful country be lost?

Such a balance is a very important matter, but I think we can still take a good many more tourists in Scotland without damaging the beauty of the country.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will set up a committee of inquiry to report on the economics of providing roads and car parks, mountain cable railways and restaurants in order to develop appropriate mountain districts as an all-the-year-round attraction and industry.

No, Sir, but I will discuss my hon. and gallant Friend's suggestion with the Scottish Tourist Board.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is yet in a position to make a statement on the working of the Clean Air Act in the control area where it has been operated by the local authority, indicating its effect on the health of the people in that area.

As the Edinburgh Sight-hill Smoke Control Area Order came into operation only on 1st January this year, it is still too early to assess its effect on health. I understand that the order is operating satisfactorily and that there is already a noticeable improvement in air conditions in the area.

Does the Secretary of State remember that before that Bill was passed I drew his attention to the fragrant chemical fumes in the Bannermill area of Aberdeen? Will the right hon. Gentleman say what he is doing in order to clarify and purify the air there?

The pollution to which the hon. and learned Gentleman refers is a matter which may be controlled under the provisions of a different Act from the one we are discussing in reply to his original Question. If the hon. and learned Gentleman will put another Question on the Order Paper, I will deal with it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many subsidised houses now stand empty at Douglas and Douglas West in the county of Lanark.

On 29th May, 27 houses were unlet at Douglas and none at Douglas West.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are also many unsubsidised houses that are empty, that something like 70 families have already left the place and that the Minister of State, Scottish Office, calculated that another 200 families may go? Will he give an assurance that he will do everything possible to attract industry to the area and, in particular, to use the available empty subsidised houses to that end?

I am fully aware of the problem in the area, and I know that the National Coal Board also has vacant houses. I think my hon. Friend has a Question on the Order Paper today addressed to the President of the Board of Trade relating to the industrial side of the matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many people in Scotland believe that he is still doing nothing at all for this distressed area of Lanarkshire—Douglas in the constituency of the hon. Member for Lanark (Mr. Patrick Maitland) and the Shotts and Harthill area in my constituency, where a pit was closed on Friday and nearly 100 miners were offered no other work? Will the right hon. Gentleman try to do something for these areas which urgently need the assistance of a Government who believe in planning our resources?

The hon. Lady must be aware of the various steps which we have taken during the last 12 months to encourage industry to come to Scotland. No doubt they will be discussed on other occasions.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that the incidence of tuberculosis in Scotland has been so reduced in recent years that there is now a surplus of specialist doctors, nurses, equipment and accommodation for this purpose; and whether he will authorise an offer in kind, in addition to the United Kingdom allocation of £100,000 in cash, of some of the surplus facilites in Scotland, now released, to the organisers of the International Refugee Year.

The answer to the first part of the Question is, "Yes, Sir." As regards the second part, Her Majesty's Government are willing to consider any specific proposals which the United Kingdom Committee for the World Refugee Year may make to them for the treatment of refugees admitted temporarily to this country for that purpose.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I made the suggestion to the Government during the discussions of the Scottish Grand Committee? In view of the statement of the Prime Minister in the City yesterday that the contribution of £100,000 is to be doubled and that he will consider favourably any other form of contribution, will my right hon. Friend, in consultation with the Prime Minister, reconsider this matter on his own without waiting to receive suggestions from the National Committee?

I think it desirable that the United Kingdom Committee for the World Refugee Year should be brought into this matter. I am ready to discuss the question with my hon. Friend as soon as is convenient.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what conclusions he has formed on the findings of the inquiry into the loss of the fishing cruiser "Freya"; and what steps he is considering to secure greater safety and range of stability in this type of vessel.

I have considered the findings of the fatal accident inquiry. The jury found no evidence of negligence or fault on the part of the Captain, officers and crew, and highly commended the courage and efficient conduct of the chief officer, Mr. Coull. There was no finding that "Freya" was an unsafe or unseaworthy ship and, indeed, I understand the expert evidence was to the contrary. I have accepted so far as my Department's ships are concerned the recommendation which the jury added to their verdict that the authorities should consider steps to increase the range of stability of any similar ships or otherwise to render them more safe, and I am in touch with the builders and the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation as to which ships should be modified and in what way.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Does it mean that in due course, say, in six months or a year from now, it may be possible to have further information on this matter, because undoubtedly there is a feeling of anxiety in some circles about the fact that this kind of boat should have been destroyed in the way it was?

Obviously continuous inquiry will go on, and we shall learn more as we consider proposals for improving the stability factor of our existing ships.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the growing menace to the River Forth from Stirling seawards from pollution; and whether he is now in a position to state what early action will be taken towards purification of the river and estuary.

I am aware that this matter has aroused a good deal of concern, but before control over pollution can be extended to the tidal waters of the Forth, an order under the Rivers (Prevention of Pollution) (Scotland) Act 1951, is required. The public inquiry into my draft order has only recently finished and I now await the report.

Is the Minister aware that there is just a chance that this project may founder upon arguments about who is to pay? Would it not prove wise in the long run for the Government to take notice and, if necessary, to put up some of the money to get the job done? Could not they provide some of the cash and collect it from the public in the next Budget?

I realise the importance of this matter, but I think I must get the report of the inquiry before making any further comment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, as it has been the declared policy for many years that every major island in the Highlands should have a pier, he will give special priority to the nine islands which are still without them.

I have approved schemes for piers for two of these islands, and proposals for three more are under consideration. I will be glad to consider any proposals which may be made for the remaining four islands, but it is for the county councils concerned to determine their priority in relations to the claims of other islands.

I appreciate that it is for the county councils to make the proposal in the first place, but would not the Secretary of State agree that these piers are of the utmost importance to the islands? Where they are sited is a technical matter, but the financing is largely a matter for the Government. May I urge the right hon. Gentleman to help the county councils to get the islands supplied with the piers which are absolutely vital to them?

I know the importance of this matter and we are getting on as fast as we can.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps are being taken to see that foreign fishing fleets and vessels displaced from the Icelandic and Faroese grounds are not over-fishing in Scottish and, in particular, Shetland waters.

I have no evidence of foreign fishing vessels recently transferring their operations from grounds near Iceland or the Faroes to waters off the Scottish coast.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what evidence he has regarding the extent to which herring stocks in the North Sea are being reduced by trawling.

The herring stocks are subject to many influences, including the different forms of fishing, and it is not easy to separate the effects of each. This complex problem is being investigated by the scientists of the Fisheries Departments in collaboration with those of other countries who fish in the North Sea; it necessarily involves long-term study and no conclusive results are yet available.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread anxiety and doubt about the effect of the increased fishing, both on white fish and on herring, and the destruction of spawn? While we know that all these inquiries are going on, may I ask whether they have not been going on for a long time and whether the right hon. Gentleman can give us an interim report on the outlook for fishing in these areas?

I will examine the latter part of that supplementary question, but I would not like to commit myself at this moment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland the name of his representative on the MacBrayne Steamer Services; how much his remuneration is; and how many meetings he attends each year.

The Government director on the company's board appointed by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation is Sir William Robieson. His remuneration, which is paid by the company, is £400 per annum. I am informed that he has attended 33 out of a possible 34 board meetings since his appointment.

I asked how many meetings he attended each year, but the right hon. Gentleman has given me the number since his appointment. If the right hon. Gentleman reports on the reorganisation of Messrs. MacBrayne and on complaints and criticisms about the state of the steamers and of the timetable, I should like specifically to know why, since this is probably the only transport subsidised in the British Isles, and to the tune of £300,000 a year, this House is kept in the dark?

The answer to the first part of that supplementary question is that the board of MacBrayne's has formal meetings once a month except in August and December. The answer to the second part is that there is constant contact between Sir William Robieson, my Department and MacBrayne's at which many of the subjects mentioned by the hon. Lady are discussed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the fact that Messrs. MacBrayne's transport subsidy is now £300,000 per annum, if he will state the proportion of this which is required for transport of Her Majesty's mails; and what consultations are conducted with regard to the remainder, particularly in respect of transport services.

Provision is included in the estimate of the Post Office for a payment of £78,840 to Messrs. David MacBrayne Ltd. in respect of the carriage of mails. In addition to the discussions that took place before the present agreement between the Government and the company was concluded, the payments to the company are reviewed annually when the company's accounts are presented, and also when any change is made in their general services or charges.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's reply mean that, apart from Her Majesty's mails, the company is subsidised by more than £222,000 per annum? In view of the fact that this service is absolutely necessary to tourism in Scotland, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to see that we get a report annually in this House regarding the working of MacBrayne's?

Considerable details are given in the Estimates, as the hon. Lady will see when they come before the House. I should like to show her the details when they appear, but I will consider whether any more details are desirable or practicable.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will have a fresh survey made of the proposed line of a trunk road to link Deeside with Speyside, having regard to the performance of modern cars and the need to avoid the drifting of snow.

No, Sir. Such a road would not be a trunk road and any survey would be a matter for the highway authorities concerned, which are Aberdeen and Inverness County Councils.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that the Scottish Home Estimates show a reduction of over £80,000 in regard to local authority care of children; and if he will explain this reduction.

The explanation of the reduction——

May I point out that a nought is missing from the figure in the Question as printed on the Paper?

The figure is actually £834,000. The explanation of the reduction is that this is one of the specific grants which have been replaced as from 16th May, 1958, by General Grant under the Local Government and Miscellaneous Financial Provisions (Scotland) Act, 1958.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what steps Her Majesty's Government are now prepared to take to encourage the introduction of new industry at Douglas, Lanarkshire.

Applications for industrial development certificates would be granted and, as I told my hon. Friend on the 14th May, applications for financial assistance by any firm would be considered, provided it would offer employment to workers in an adjacent D.A.T.A.C. area.

Will my boo. Friend again consider the idea that all the 1945 Act powers should be made available for this area and that the area be treated on the same level as a D.A.T.A.C. area? Will he take steps to draw the attention of industrial concerns to the fact that subsidised houses are now standing empty in this area?

It is true that 45 house holders——

About 75——

have left the area recently and that there are vacant houses there. This fact has been drawn to the attention of industrialists.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement on his recent visit to Russia.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement on the outcome of his visit to Moscow.

The text of a Five-Year Trade Agreement with the U.S.S.R. is published today in a White Paper. This agreement was made at the conclusion of discussions in Moscow which, although unexpectedly difficult at times, were always conducted in a fair and friendly spirit. I should like to express my thanks to the four business advisers who were good enough to join our Trade Delegation. Their help was most valuable.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that after this he is in danger of being denounced by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Shettleston (Mr. McGovern) as a "fellow traveller"? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that this increase of trade with Russia will be of permanent advantage to this country? If so, is it not curious that we are spending more than £1,500 million a year to arm against a country which is to be one of our best customers?

I am quite satisfied that an expansion of Anglo-Soviet trade will be good from the economic point of view and also good from the point of view of international relations.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we on this side of the House and, I am sure, all hon. Members in all parts of the House very much welcome the conclusion of this agreement? We have, in fact, been pressing the Government for a very long time to enter these negotiations. How soon does the right hon. Gentleman expect to be able to announce the details of this rather small but nevertheless very welcome exchange of trade in consumer goods between the two countries?

The Soviet authorities agreed 10 have these negotiations here in London and set a time limit of six weeks.

One point is of great interest to industrialists in this country. Can my right hon. Friend tell the House whether the orders by Russia for British goods will be placed by Government agencies, or whether there is a great deal of discretion to factory managers to choose different British goods and to discriminate between one and another?

Recently, the Soviet authorities have decentralised to some extent their purchases of foreign goods, but all the organisations are, in fact, part of the Government machinery.

While welcoming this useful agreement, even though it only touches the fringe of the possibilities, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that France is offering quantities of cable to Russia which Britain is not because our officials say that it is embargoed? Does the right lion. Gentleman not think that the time is overdue for ending this strategic list entirely, except for military weapons?

The problem of this particular inquiry on cable is under consideration by the Cocom Group. The Soviet authorities did not press the view at all strongly that the strategic list now included a lot of goods they would like to import.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, in view of growing public concern, whether he will set up a Departmental committee to investigate the operation of take-over bids, with a view to recommending such appropriate amendments to the Companies Act as may be necessary in the public interest.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will establish a commission of inquiry on the activities of small groups of financiers who take over, or attempt to take over, large concerns without regard to the interests of the workers involved or the public generally, with power to recommend ways and means of amending the Companies Act so that the directors of industry may be made responsible to the community for actions affecting employment, wages, profits, and prices.

My right hon. Friend does not think it necessary to seek any powers to discourage or restrain the making of take-over bids. Some takeover bids involve practices which are disliked but that is not sufficient reason for amending the Companies Act in the manner suggested.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that most intelligent people in the country will not regard this economic gang warfare as in the interests of the nation, of the consumers or of the workers involved, as it extends private monopoly control, which is undesirable? Is he aware also that these take-over bids confirm the view expressed on this side of the House about the ineffectiveness of control by shareholders? Will he not look into the matter to see whether some code of business ethics, or some other means, could be devised to protect the public interest?

The great majority of take-over bids are of great benefit both economically and socially to the country. The possibility of such bids keeps directors on their toes and ensures that assets are fully utilised. On the whole, the take-over bids operate in the interest of the workers, the industry and the country as a whole.

Does the hon. Gentleman really think that that will go down well with the old-age pensioners? Is he aware that activities like those of Mr. Clore have revealed the disreputable nature of a lot of high finance, which, of course, is inevitable under the capitalist system? Has not the time obviously come to put an end to the making of huge untaxed fortunes? Should we not take action to put a stop to that? Is it not time that the directors of industry showed more responsibility for the community's interest?

Questions referring to tax-free gains would be better addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer than to me.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether his very eloquent approval of these take-over bids has been checked in advance with the Institute of Directors? Did it approve of these takeover bids, or does it only resist them when it is a question of the British people having a share in equities?

I can assure the right hon. Member that I have not been in any contact with the Institute of Directors and that the Answer given is that of the Government.

Why should the Government not emulate the example of some of these financiers and industrialists? Why should the Government not take over some of these private concerns? Would it not be desirable for the State to extract some profit from these concerns instead of leaving it to these private financiers?

I think the greatest example of take-over bids in recent years has been the nationalisation of such things as the railways, and that has not been to the interest of the workers.

As the hon. Gentleman has referred to the railways, is he aware that that was done after full Parliamentary debate and by the ordinary legislative process? Is he aware that in some cases these take-over bid operations are done in secret and that the first thing the directors of the taken-over company know is when someone walks in and says, "You are taken over"? Is it right that there should be nominee shareholders whereby there can be secret acquisitions without anybody knowing what is going on? In short, does the hon. Gentleman think that anything that capitalism does is right and anything the State does is wrong?

I recognise that there are a number of practices which are disliked, some arising from the activities of the bidders and some from those of the directors, but if there were an attempt at a hidden take-over the Board of Trade has powers to investigate the matter.

Since the hon. Gentleman's knowledge of take-over history is a little limited, would he study the Answer given by one of his right hon. Friends to a Question about the successful State take-over bid in respect of British Petroleum, which showed that the value of the shares had increased ninety-fold, all to the benefit of British people since that took place?

I am well aware of the facts, but I wonder whether the right hon. Member would like to give an assurance that before any further nationalisation he will secure the views of the workers, for example, in the iron and steel industry and of the shareholders, including trade unions?

Would the hon. Gentleman say whether Mr. Clore consulted the workers or the directors in this industry before making the bid?

As far as I am aware, no, but it was a perfectly open bid.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Answer, I beg to give notice that I hope to raise the matter on Friday, when I have a Motion down about Capitalism and Socialism.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will arrange that the Board of Trade publication, Accounts relating to Trade and Navigation of the United Kingdom, shall give more detailed information of the types of goods imported under Class D, Division 15, in order to assist manufacturers in the United Kingdom.

I regret that it is not possible to expand any particular section of the Trade Accounts without either upsetting the balance of the publication or increasing its size and so delaying publication. When the trade in any particular item becomes sufficiently important, we are always glad to consider it.

Does this publication give enough information to the smaller firms which, for example, are seeking opportunities to manufacture under licence?

I think it does. I do not quite know what particular information the smaller firms are looking for, but data can be extracted from the Customs and Excise in accordance with specification at a cost of 9d. per sheet with a minimum of 2s.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will reconsider his decision to free all processed milk for licensing, in view of the quantities of foreign imports and their effect on home production.

Owing to a shortage of domestic supplies, imports of processed milk have been licensed freely since last December. But I understand that the supply position is changing and I am keeping the matter under review.

Will my hon. Friend give very careful consideration to this decision which has been made, because it is impossible for some of the milk marketing boards to reduce their costs and, therefore, reduce the possibility of subsidies being paid by the Government if all these imports are allowed in free, including those not in short supply?

I think there are a great many interests concerned; they will all be taken into consideration.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what arrangements the has made to keep Scottish manufacturers in touch with potential orders in manufacturing under licence or securing sub-contracts.

Licence agreements and sub-contracts, whether with United Kingdom firms or with overseas firms, are usually arranged privately through the ordinary commercial channels, but the Board notifies trade associations and other subscribers to its Special Register Service of inquiries made to the Board's overseas Posts.

What action is taken by the Board of Trade to work in conjunction with the Scottish Council in this matter? Many manufacturers who perfectly understand the system of contracting to manufacture under licence or sub-contracting cannot get sufficient information from the Board of Trade in the early stages in Scotland.

My understanding is that the Controller for Scotland is in close touch with the Scottish Council. I shall certainly look into the matter if my hon Friend will send me particulars.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will now make a further statement as to the proposals to extend the European Common Market to a wider free trade area; and what positive proposals to associate Commonwealth countries with such an area have emerged from the current series of Commonwealth consultations now taking place in London.

The objective of Her Majesty's Government remains a multilateral association of the members of the European Economic Community with the other members of O.E.E.C. As announced last week, Her Majesty's Government have now agreed that United Kingdom officials should participate in discussions taking place in Stockholm on the possibility of setting up an association of seven countries which might lead in due course to a wider European association. No positive proposals for the association of Commonwealth countries with a wider European association emerged from the recent consultations among Commonwealth officials in London.

Does that comprise the statement which the right hon. Gentleman promised to my right hon. Friend the Member for Huyton (Mr. H. Wilson) before Whitsun to give to the House—a comprehensive statement as to the progress of these various negotiations—or has the right hon. Gentleman anything further to say, and when can he say it?

I do not think that at this stage there is anything more I can usefully add, but if there are any Questions the right hon. Member would like to put down, I shall be happy to try to answer them.

If the O.E.E.C. countries outside the Common Market six continue successfully with their present negotiations for some separate arrangement, are they not very much more likely to be able to negotiate successfully with the Common Market?

Certainly that is the hope of Her Majesty's Government.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, what reply he has sent to the communication received from the Caltex Company about a proposed refinery in Hampshire.

I assume that the hon. Member refers to a letter dated 1st May from the solicitors representing this firm, saying that they had been instructed to withdraw the application for planning permission to build a refinery on Southampton Water. In reply, the solicitors were informed that the local inquiry which I had arranged for 12th May was accordingly cancelled.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is now clear that Caltex has merely postponed and not abandoned this idea of building a refinery? As that refinery can be of great economic value to the country and great value to the employment situation in South Hampshire, will the right hon. Gentleman do everything he can to persuade Caltex to go on with the original project?

No, Sir, that is not a question for me. My duty here, if an application comes before me, is to arrange an inquiry and to give a decision, but at present there is no application before me, and it would be quite outside my responsibilities to stimulate one.

asked the Prime Minister what machinery exists between the Western Powers for co-ordinating information and advice about radioactive fall-out.

The main international body for keeping problems of radiation in general under close and continuous review is the United Nations Scientific Committee on Radiation. An Agency of the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation is also preparing proposals for exchanging information on measurements of environmental radioactivity in member countries.

Is the Prime Minister satisfied with this machinery? Is he aware that from time to time there appear to have been considerable differences between the scientific advice given, for example, in the United States and in this country? Is he aware that there have also been considerable differences in the action taken by Governments? For example, the Danish Government have forbidden the use of rainwater for cooking because of the danger of Strontium 90, whereas no similar action seems to have been taken by any other Government. Is he satisfied that there is a proper channel for communication for all the latest information on radiation hazards?

I am bound to say that a large amount of information is being produced. This general machinery seems satisfactory for interchanging it.

As I think the Prime Minister will recognise that conflicting statements are made from time to time in different countries, will the Government press for an early report by the United Nations Committee, which I think is composed of scientists from many different countries?

This Question was

"what machinery exists between the Western Powers."

Will the Prime Minister answer my question? Will the Government press for a further report from the United Nations Committee, which is a scientific body, in order to try to clear up the confusion arising from conflicting reports?

I should have to look into it. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would put that Question down, because I am not quite sure when the next report is timed to be produced.

asked the Prime Minister if he will give the most recent evidence on the question of whether there is a threshold value for exposure to radiation below which there is no risk of either genetic damage, or leukaemia, or bone cancer.

Research is continuing all the time in these matters but, as the House will realise, the work is inevitably difficult and time-consuming. On the basis of the existing evidence, it is impossible to say with certainty whether or not there is a threshold dose of radiation—from whatever source, natural or man-made—below which there is no risk of producing either genetic or somatic damage.

I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Does that deal with the real problem here? The concept of a threshold was put forward a long time ago, giving the impression that as long as the radioactive fall-out was not above that limit, there was nothing to be apprehended. Was not the conception itself entirely false? Is it not a fact that the human organism in different parts of the world is subjected to radioactive influences which even normally might cause leukaemia or bone cancer? If there is an increase in radioactivity, then a larger number of people will be affected by it. The threshold itself was therefore a fake concept from the very beginning.

The Medical Research Council, which is the body which advises Her Majesty's Government, and the United Nations Scientific Committee have always accepted that there is no threshold of radiation exposure—I am taking radiation as a whole—below which is can be said with certainty that no genetic damage occurs. Neither the Medical Research Council nor the United Nations Committee has ever put forward this view as something on which one could say absolutely that below a certain amount there can be no damage. As for the somatic effects, it is much more difficult to answer exactly. That is why I think both the United Nations and the Medical Research people have always tried to give calculations giving both upper and lower limits.

Is the Prime Minister aware that his last reply entirely disposes of the very much publicised concept of a threshold? It is a purely subjective term having no objective scientific validity at all. I therefore hope that the newspapers will drop ridiculous nonsense of this sort.

I am not prepared to enter into what appears to be more a philosophic than a scientific discussion whether this is a subjective or an objective concept. Since radiation as a whole has been going on for a very long time and is added to all the time, very largely by human effort—and in some countries, I am told, it is rising all the time—and since, of course, there is an addition by the nuclear tests, although to a much smaller fraction, it is very difficult to say that there is some definite point below which nobody can be injured by anything, but that is no more than saying that to be alive at all involves some risk.

As the Prime Minister has told the House today that there is no known threshold dose, does he not agree that the previous advice which he was given is invalidated and that when he has told us that a small addition does not present a hazard to health, that view has been revealed by his answer today as having no foundation at all?

I must repeat that the Medical Research Council, in all material reports on this matter, has always accepted the view that there is no absolute threshold of radiation below which no genetic damage may be done.

Does the Prime Minister's answer today mean that, having regard to the small additions to the total world radiation made by nuclear tests all over the world, if the conference proceeding in Geneva should fortunately reach unanimous agreement to stop all future tests, this will add nothing whatever to the safety of mankind?

Obviously, since there are risks in all this, it must be bad to add to them. Obviously if there are risks there is no particular object in adding to them. That is why we have set up Lord Adrian's Committee, in respect of man-made radiation, to see whether this very large amount of radiation which is being used ought to be more carefully controlled, because that is where some of the risks are. I am bound to say that that is also why I am working so hard and why my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is working so hard at Geneva on this matter—so hard and so successfully, I hope. There are other than merely scientific advantages if we can achieve the first international agreement to control any form of weapons by arrangement and by proper inspection.

Since the Prime Minister has mentioned the Foreign Secretary and the conference at Geneva, may I ask whether he can say who is responsible for the inspired statement that the Foreign Secretary is to be replaced?

I think that is very wide of the Question.

There was no inspired statement of any kind, but this perhaps gives me the opportunity to say that I have been reading the newspapers, as no doubt the right hon. Gentleman has been reading them, and the Foreign Secretary and I hope to carry on our work together for a very long time to come. I noticed that the assumption of these articles was that there was bound to be another five years of Conservative Government. Whether we shall complete the full stint ourselves remains to be seen.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if statements of this sort had been made by the Opposition we should have been accused of unpatriotically stabbing the Foreign Secretary in the back in the course of international negotiations?

The Opposition do quite enough of that anyway.

asked the Prime Minister whether the speech of the Secretary of State for Scotland on municipal housing, at the annual dinner of the National Federation of Property Owners at Pitlochry on 21st May represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

What my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland said fully represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

Can we take it from that Answer that the Prime Minister has no intention of promoting the Secretary of State for Scotland to be the Foreign Secretary? Is the Prime Minister aware that the Secretary of State for Scotland said that council house tenants were the new privileged class who were paying disproportionately low rents and it would take time to complete the work that must be done? Does that mean that the Government are contemplating further legislation or action to increase the rents of municipal tenants?

No. It is a matter for municipal authorities, but I have observed over the country as a whole that there is a general recognition that the problem of local government rents is something which local authorities ought to take care of and that the rents should be in relation to the current economic situation and have some regard both to the needs of the tenants and to the incomes of the tenants.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in default of a White Paper on the whole problem of nuclear tests and fall-out, he will present a White Paper containing all the information of which Her Majesty's Government have cognisance concerning, first, the total fission yield from nuclear tests by the United Kingdom, the United States of America, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, respectively, in each of the years 1945 to 1958, secondly, the estimates supplied to him by the United States Atomic Energy Commission, under the information exchange agreement, of casualties due to nuclear tests and, thirdly, the new data on nuclear tests conducted underground and in outer space.

With regard to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's Question, I have nothing to add to what I said on 14th May. With regard to the second part of the Question, which I assume refers to the estimated somatic or genetic effects of radiation from fallout, such information is not technically covered by the exchange agreement. It does, however, reach us from the United States through a variety of channels. With regard to the third part of the Question, a full statement was issued by the President of the United States on 5th January last, the day on which the data about underground tests were tabled at the Geneva Conference. No new data on high altitude tests have been tabled at the Geneva Conference, but the question of these tests is a matter for the Conference, and I am hopeful that their consideration will proceed.

Is this not all new information which is essential to the proper understanding of the issues at stake at the Geneva Conference? Does the Prime Minister not think it right to make it available to hon. Members?

No. This is by way of being a private conference, although I know that it has been more or less agreed on all sides that certain statements should be put forward. I am very anxious that the conference should succeed. We are approaching a very important part of the conference on the scientific side, and it would be a mistake automatically to publish data which are made available to the conference as a whole.