asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations on what date Her Majesty's Government were officially advised of the composition of the African Affairs Board.

The African Affairs Board is a Standing Committee of the Federal Assembly of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland and its composition is laid down in Article 67 of the Federal Constitution. The Constitution does not contain any provision for my right hon. and noble Friend to be informed of the names of those members of the Federal Assembly who, from time to time, form the Board.

In view of the change in the composition of the Board, is the Under-Secretary of State satisfied that it provides any safeguards at all?

The Board is constituted in accordance with the Constitution and therefore is fully effective in carrying out the work set for it in the Constitution.

Can the hon. Gentleman state how often the Board is consulted and how often its advice has been accepted?

As I have said, there is no provision in the Constitution for my right hon. and noble Friend to be consulted.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what prior consultations he had with the Governments of the Federation of the Rhodesias and Nyasaland and of Southern Rhodesia regarding the facilities to be afforded to the Devlin Commission during their inquiries within the Federation.

At the time of the setting up of the Devlin Commission, Her Majesty's Government were in close touch with the Governments of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland and of Southern Rhodesia about the arrangements to be made for the Commission. It is not customary to reveal the details of consultations of this kind, but I can say that both the Governments concerned co-operated to the full in enabling the Commission's work to be carried out speedily and efficiently.

Did not anyone in the Commonwealth Relations Office think that when we are initiating a quasi-judicial inquiry some provision ought to be made for reasonable access to detained persons by their legal advisers and that reasonable provision ought to be made for those legal advisers to obtain full opportunities for consultation?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that the Southern Rhodesian Government passed their Visiting Commissions Act which gave the Commission the same powers while sitting in Southern Rhodesia as it had in Nyasaland under the Commissions of Inquiry Ordinance, and, therefore, the circumstances in which the Commission has been in Southern Rhodesia have been precisely the same as those operating in Nyasaland.

Suppose the Devlin Commission became a little of a nuisance in demanding things in the pursuance of its inquiry that the Government of Nyasaland did not wish to give it. In view of the hon. Gentleman's answers, have we any method of preventing the Governments concerned from expelling Mr. Justice Devlin as an undesirable immigrant?

The hon. Gentleman is, perhaps, confusing in some ways the responsibilities of the Federal Government and of the Nyasaland Government. I would draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that it was made quite clear when we last discussed this subject that it never was nor ever would be the intention of the Federal Government under their powers to interfere with the work and entry of officials wishing to enter the Federation on the service of the United Kingdom Government or Parliament.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will make a statement on the recent discussions of the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations with the Government of Southern Rhodesia.

I have nothing to add to my replies to the hon. Members for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) and Huddersfield, West (Mr. Wade) on 16th April.

Have any discussions taken place with regard to the recent Acts which have been passed, particularly the Unlawful Organisations Act and the Preventive Detention Act? What action is proposed to prevent the implementation of these repressive Acts?

As I made clear on a previous occasion, consultations between my noble Friend and Commonwealth Governments are always confidential.

According to the Press, Sir Roy Welensky is soon expected in this country. Can the hon. Gentleman say whether his visit will be merely social or for the purpose of official talks?

I am not in a position to make a statement on that matter at the moment.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will exercise the powers of Her Majesty's Government under the Southern Rhodesia Constitution Letters Patent, 1923, to prevent the implementation of the Unlawful Organisations Act, in view of the discriminatory nature of this legislation.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer given to the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) on 18th June.

As that Answer was, "No", may I thank the hon. Gentleman for his very informative reply? May I ask two questions arising out of the reply? Is he aware that the unwillingness to act in this matter under the powers available to us gives the appearance that we are acting in collusion in the suppression of all the African political organisations? Secondly, what is the position of Mr. Harry Nkumbula, an elected member of the Legislative Council in Northern Rhodesia, when he travels to Salisbury, as he is president of one of the prescribed organisations referred to in the Schedule?

The point raised in the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is a matter for the Federal Government. Regarding the first part of the supplementary question, the action which Her Majesty's Government have taken is quite in accordance with long-standing constitutional practice in our relations with self-governing territories overseas.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the excellent record of the Southern Rhodesian Government in the management of their own affairs for many years before Federation? Does not he think that it would be quite wrong for any British Government to interfere with affairs there when we have difficulty in managing our own affairs in this country?

Would the Under-Secretary agree that the Government still have these powers under this Act and, if necessary, would use them?

I reminded the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition on a previous occasion that these powers have not been used by any Government, whether Labour or Conservative, since the inception of the Constitution more than thirty-six years ago.

Is it not a fact that circumstances such as we have today have not arisen before, and that they are of a serious nature? Should not the Government give some indication to Parliament about where they stand in this matter?

On a previous occasion and today I gave a clear indication of precisely where the Government stand in this matter.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what recommendations the High Commissioner has made for the establishment of a Legislative Council for the Bechuanaland Protectorate.

None, Sir. The Resident Commissioner has begun consultations with a Committee of the Joint Advisory Council, but these are, as yet, in their early stages.

In view of the very hopeful fact that both Europeans and Africans in Bechuanaland are asking for the establishment of a Legislative Council, is not it desirable that these discussions should be speeded up? They have lasted many months now.

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman is quite correct in saying that the discussions of the Committee of the Joint Advisory Council have lasted many months. They have only just begun. The hon. Gentleman will remember that among the number of African unofficials was the late Mr. Tshekedi Khama. This gives me the opportunity to pay tribute to the work which he did in furthering the political development not only of his own tribe but of the whole of Bechuanaland.

May I, on behalf of right hon. and hon. Members on this side of the House, add support to the hon. Member's tribute to a great African chief?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether he will initiate consultations with all Commonwealth Governments to explore the possibility of getting an agreed text book of Commonwealth history for use in all State schools and universities throughout the Commonwealth.

No, Sir. I do not think that such a project would be compatible with the tradition of academic freedom which all Commonwealth Governments wish to preserve.

Would it not be of help to get some agreement throughout the Commonwealth on this very important matter? Would it not be appropriate if the Commonwealth Education Conference, which is to meet in this country very shortly, were asked to give consideration to trying to show a little more sympathy of outlook, if nothing more, in this matter?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the forthcoming Commonwealth Education Conference is a most important and significant development in co-operation among all Commonwealth countries in the sphere of education, but I do not think, frankly, that it would be either a suitable subject or a good precedent that a proposal should be made the first object of which is to curtail in some way normal academic freedom.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what register is maintained by his Department of Scottish societies in the oversea Commonwealth; and what arrangements exist in his Department for interesting Commonwealth visitors in places of tourist, antiquarian or genealogical interest in Scotland such as Douglas, Lanarkshire.

The Commonwealth Relations Office does not maintain a register of Scottish societies in the Commonwealth, but United Kingdom High Commissioners are in close touch with Caledonian Societies in the Commonwealth countries in which they are serving.

In 1958–59 the Commonwealth Relations Office sponsored visits by forty-seven visitors from the Commonwealth to the United Kingdom. Of these, thirty-three went to Scotland in the course of their official tours. The programmes of visits to places in Scotland of historical and cultural interest were arranged by the Scottish Information Office.

There are so many such places in Scotland that it has not been possible to include all of them—for instance, Douglas—in these itineraries.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that Douglas is quite different from all other places in Scotland in that a forebear of his noble Friend, who was known as "Black Douglas," inflicted a smashing defeat on the English there in the year 1307? Is not this in itself a good reason why Commonwealth visitors, particularly those of Scottish extraction, should be brought to this scene of a great military triumph—and perhaps they might become interested in the industrial possibilities of the area at the same time?

We in the Commonwealth Relations Office are very well aware of the characteristics and qualities of Douglas, since it is the home of my right hon. and noble Friend. I do not think that either he or his neighbours would be satisfied at it being regarded as merely a place of antiquarian and genealogical interest.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what steps he proposes to take to alter the present laws under which Her Majesty's Government have no power to procure the admission of British citizens to British protected territories.

The protectorates for which my noble Friend is responsible are Bechuanaland Protectorate and Swaziland. His existing constitutional powers in those territories are considered adequate.

In Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland, the position is that entry from outside the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland into those protectorates, whether of United Kingdom citizens or other persons, is a matter for the Federation, under Item 4 of Part I of the Second Schedule to the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland (Constitution) Order in Council, 1953. The procedure for altering this Schedule is laid down in Article 98 of the Constitution.

Any proposal to vary the existing division of powers between the Federal and Territorial Governments is a matter which can be considered at the 1960 Conference but it would not be proper for me to particularise at this stage as to what might be included in the Agenda of the Conference.

While not asking the Minister to particularise, may we take it that he is dissatisfied with a position in which British subjects, such as Mr. Colvin, are excluded from Nyasaland and not even the most friendly representations may be made, far less pressure be brought on the Government concerned? Can he explain why it is that in the case of Ireland, the Prime Minister thought it proper to make representations about the treatment of Irish nationals by the Irish Government, but apparently we find it difficult to make representations about the treatment of British nationals by the Government of the Federation?

The hon. Gentleman will realise that on all matters relating to the interests of this country and a Commonwealth country we are always closely in contact with the Government concerned. The case of Mr. Colvin, to which the hon. Gentleman referred, is a different matter.

Would not the Under-Secretary of State make a specific reply to the question whether he is really pleased with this situation, whether he is expressing approbation of it, or whether he disapproves of action by the Rhodesian Government directed against British citizens with a long record of respectable and responsible residence within the territory?

It is not my responsibility, nor would it be proper for me, to comment on an action of a Commonwealth Government taken within powers which they possess and which have been conferred upon them by the United Kingdom Parliament.

It is the responsibility of everybody in this country, as the hon. Gentleman knows.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what grants it is proposed to make to mission schools in Basutoland; and if he will make a statement.

The provision in the Basutoland 1959–60 estimates for grants-in-aid to mission schools is £259,700. This represents an increase of £21,000 over the previous financial year, and covers increased expenditure of schools which are already in the receipt of grants-in-aid as well as the employment of teachers at new schools built with the help of Colonial Development and Welfare funds.

I thank my hon. Friend for that satisfactory reply. May I ask whether it is not the fact that missionary societies of all denominations are doing very fine educational work in Basutoland and that the more he finds it possible to increase the grants the more likely it is that primary education will be brought to the territory, and an advance made in secondary education?

The High Commissioner is considering what additional grants can be made. I agree with what my hon. Friend says about the substantial progress in education which has been made in Basutoland, which is almost entirely due to the wonderful work of the missionary societies operating there.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what attempts are being made to introduce light industries into Basutoland, in particular, in the Maseru area.

I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply to the hon. Member for Rugby (Mr. J. Johnson) on 30th April. The report of the preliminary survey is still awaited. In the meantime two small establishments, one producing soft drinks and the other producing building materials, have been established in the Maseru area.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that a firm establishing itself in this area can look to the whole of South Africa as a market and not merely to the restricted area of Basutoland? Will he do as much as possible to advertise that fact in order to attract important light industries to this area?

I think that there are great advantages for any industry coming to this area, although at present there are also certain difficulties. I can assure my hon. Friend that we are most anxious to do anything we can to develop the economic resources of Basutoland—both industrial and other resources.

Is it not the fact that there is a demand for blankets by Africans from all over the Territory? Would not the hon. Gentleman consult the C.D.C. with a view to establishing a blanket mill on the same lines as the mill operating successfully at Blantyre-Limbe in Nyasaland?

It is largely a question of local economics, but when I was in South Africa I had the opportunity of talking to a representative of the C.D.C. regarding this project and I asked that the Corporation should look at it sympathetically when it had the opportunity to do so.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations how many Africans in Basutoland have been issued permits by the Resident Commissioner of Basutoland, for the purpose of entering licensed premises in that territory, and in particular the dining room of the sole licensed hotel in Maseru, the Lancers Inn; by what authority these permits are issued; and what distinctions are imposed in this matter between Europeans and Africans.

Permits to obtain liquor on licensed premises for consumption on or off such premises have been issued to twenty-seven Africans in Basutoland. These permits, which are issued by the Resident Commissioner, are valid for the whole territory and are not limited to particular hotels or parts of hotels. No permit is required to enter the dining room of any hotel.

These permits relieve Africans of the disabilities laid down in the law about the sale and consumption of liquor.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that this action of Mr. Chaplain, the Commissioner, is quite illegal because under Section 21 of the Proclamation No. 75, Laws of Basutoland, page 964, permits apply only to off-licence sales? In any case, the permits are not used because the Basuto chiefs, including the Paramount Chief himself, think it quite derogatory that they should be treated in this way. Why cannot decent, civilised Africans like the Paramount Chief and his advisers enter the hotel and consume liquor there, if they so desire, just the same as decent, civilised Europeans can do?

I will certainly look into the allegations which the hon. Gentleman has made with regard to the scope of the powers of the Resident Commissioner. It may well be that in some respects the continuance of this sort of regulation is over-paternalistic at the present. I would only remind the hon. Gentleman that the object was not to prevent the African from sharing in the privileges of the European but, under international agreement, to prevent him from indulging in the white man's vice. I think it may be, as I say, that the ideas which gave rise to the agreements which took place before and after the First World War are out of date, but we must not underestimate the motive which lay behind the establishment of this form of regulation in earlier days.

Even so, the hon. Gentleman admits that social conditions are changing, and Africans now can have the opportunity fully to share in a mixed society; so will he not agree that to make an issue of such permits is illegal, because Section 21 on page 964 definitely states:

"A licence holder may hand any liquor so ordered in sealed bottles to the messenger of such customer."?

This is clearly off-licence custom, and hence it is quite wrong for the Commissioner to issue on his own discretion permits to certain people, and the Basutos do not like it.

I will certainly look into the legal position and let the hon. Gentleman know.

Will not the Under-Secretary of State agree, in view of the work which he himself did recently in meeting the Basuto delegation in a very harmonious atmosphere, that it would be unfortunate if local officials tended to do away with that now?

I think that in the precise development to which the right hon. Gentleman referred we may in due course find a solution of the particular problem the hon. Gentleman the Member for Rugby (Mr. J. Johnson) has raised.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if he will give the number of African graduates in Basutoland; how many of these have found employment in the Civil Service; how many have left Basutoland for work elsewhere; and how many are still unemployed.

There are at present 55 African graduates in Basutoland and 15 are on post-graduate courses outside the territory. Twenty-three are employed in the Civil Service. A further thirty-one have left Basutoland for employment elsewhere. Three of these are articled attorneys in the Orange Free State, who are practising in Basutoland. Three graduates are still unemployed.

Is not the Under-Secretary of State fully aware how keenly the Basuto leaders feel about this matter? Does he realise that their young educated men in the Administration also feel the position very keenly and sincerely, as they still see Europeans holding jobs in the Administration when young educated Africans can, perhaps, take their place?

I am well aware of the point the hon. Gentleman has made, and I think I made it clear on a previous occasion that we are very anxious indeed to see an increasing number of Basutos in the administration of their own affairs, but these detailed matters must be left to the discretion of the Administration on the spot.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what facilities are afforded by the Union of South Africa Government to the Nyasaland Labour Representative and Northern Rhodesia Labour Officer for visiting farms where British-protected persons of Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia are sent by the Union Government after convicting them of pass laws offences.

The Nyasaland Labour Representative and Northern Rhodesia Labour Officer may at any time by arrangement accompany officials of the Union Department of Bantu Administration and Development on visits to the farms in question.

Is the Minister aware of the shocking case of John Musa, a Nyasa herbalist of Johannesburg, who was picked up by the infamous "ghost squad" in Alexandra Township last October and taken to the farm of P. L. Potgeiter near Heidelburg? Is he aware that I have twelve sworn affidavits admitting beatings and punishments on this farm by this gentleman? Will the hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that he will back to the hilt any action to help the Nyasaland Labour Officer at Johannesburg to do his job efficiently?

I know that the Federation representative in the Union is closely in touch with this problem. I would remind the lion. Gentleman that the Union Minister for Bantu Administration and Development has announced the temporary suspension of the scheme and has appointed a commission of inquiry to investigate the scheme.

Is the Minister aware that this same Bantu Affairs Minister has admitted these charges, and the beatings which have been going on on this farm, and that Mr. Potgeiter was put off the list of African farmers who were allowed to take South African convict labour?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations if a decision has now been reached regarding the application of the Homicide Act, 1957, to the High Corn-mission Territories.

The question of the reform of the law relating to homicide in force in the High Commission Territories is still being considered by the High Commissioner.

Is it not the case that I put a Question on this matter some months ago? Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the urgency of the matter? Quite recently twelve Africans, on appeal to the Privy Council, have been refused the right of appeal and are under sentence of death, and three of them are women. In view of the urgency of this matter, will the hon. Gentleman look into it immediately?

The hon. Gentleman's Question on the Paper today and the original Question covered a very much wider problem than the specific one to which he has latterly referred, and I am in a position only to deal with the wider problem. The reason why it has taken time to reach a conclusion in this matter is that the basis, as I understand it, of the law of homicide in the High Commission Territories is Roman-Dutch as opposed to English. Therefore, a great deal of consideration has to be given to the development of ideas of law relating to homicide as they have developed in this country, and how it matches with and conforms to the development of the law with regard to homicide under Roman-Dutch law.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations what representations he has made to the Indian Government concerning the release of Barry J. Heddon, a British Overseas Airways Corporation steward, now held on bail in Calcutta; what reply he has received; and if he will make a statement.

None, Sir. The case is still before the Indian Courts, and has been adjourned until 29th June, bail having been granted. I will send my hon. Friend further details.

Will my hon. Friend say why this matter has taken such a long time already and what is being done by the Deputy High Commissioner's Office to attempt to speed it up? Can he tell me what representations were made by the Deputy High Commissioner against the treatment this man received while held at Calcutta Gaol?

The speed or otherwise of the courts in India is a matter for the Indian judiciary, and not for me, but the man in question has been granted bail and is at the moment, as I understand it, living in an hotel in Calcutta and is satified with the representations which have been made on his behalf by his legal advisers. I can assure my hon. Friend that our representatives in Calcutta are watching this case, but it is a matter primarily for the operation of the normal processes of the law in India.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will bring to the attention of all schools the book entitled "Race Prejudice and Education," sponsored by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation, in order to assist in the education of children in the principles of racial integration and to encourage more teaching of the nature and significance of the new Commonwealth.

I welcome the appearance of a book dealing objectively with this important question, but it would be a departure from long-established practice if I were to recommend a particular book for use in schools.

Whilst I understand that, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he would agree that it is very important to encourage wider teaching about the problems of race relations? Could not the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity to encourage the establishment of some summer course for teachers, or other schemes of that nature, which would enable the work represented by a book of this sort to be brought to the attention of teachers?

I will certainly consider that, but I am advised by Her Majesty's inspectors that teachers are already doing a good job in teaching on this important question.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is no racialism amongst small children and that it is not necessary to call attention to it?

I agree. In visiting schools I have been struck by the truth of what the hon. Member has said, but I think that it is still also a fact that the wider question in its more historical aspects is worthy of some attention in the curriculum.

asked the Minister of Education if, in view of the fall in the number of those attending primary schools, and the extra accommodation now available in such schools, he will withdraw Circulars No. 280 and 313 and will encourage, whenever conditions permit, the admission of children under 5 years of age to nursery classes or nursery schools.

No, Sir, because it is still more important to concentrate on reducing the size of classes.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the two aims are contradictory, and that there is a great demand both by a number of teachers' organisations concerned in reducing the size of classes and parents' organisations that where there is accommodation available in schools it should be used to introduce nursery schools and nursery classes?

That may be so in particular cases, but I think that, in general, priority must be given to reducing the size of classes.

asked the Minister of Education how many primary schools are sited on stretches of trunk roads where there are no speed restrictions; and for how many of these schools no school crossing patrol is provided.

I regret that this information is not available.

My right hon. Friend really ought to get hold of this information. Is he aware that it is a matter of very great concern and that the parents of children who attend these schools are, not unreasonably, anxious for the safety of the children in view of the increasing speed and number of vehicles on these trunk roads? Will my right hon. Friend take care to see that some provision is made for their safety while entering and leaving school?

This is a most important question but it has been felt that it is a matter for the responsibility of the local authorities, who are very much alive to it. In the case to which my right hon. Friend has drawn my attention, I am asking the authority to review all the safety precautions at the school concerned.

asked the Minister of Education if he will give the figures of vacancies for physics graduates in grammar and other schools for which inquiry was made in October, 1958; and what is the explanation of any disparity between those figures and the intimation given to the hon. Member for Leyton recently that the vacancies were only twenty-six.

One hundred and sixteen, Sir. The disparity is due to the fact that the hon. Member's Question of 30th April referred only to physics masters in boys' grammar schools.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that, in any case, there is a very serious shortage of physics graduates for teaching in schools? In these circumstances, what action is he taking to try to overcome this difficulty? Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that one minor reason for the shortage of physics graduates may be the fact that they are being more and more drawn into the Forces?

I doubt the latter part of the hon. Member's supplementary question. According to a survey which we made recently, there has been a modest increase of between 6 per cent. and 7 per cent. in the numbers of those teachers, and in our big expansion of the teacher-training colleges we are laying special emphasis on an increase in the number of mathematics, science and physics teachers.

asked the Minister of Education whether his statistical department has yet been reorganised.

No, Sir, but I am taking steps to produce more useful and up-to-date statistics for technical education.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that his own Parliamentary Secretary said only a few months ago that looking at figures in the Ministry's reports was like looking up trains in last year's Bradshaw? Is it not very difficult for hon. Members to see the practical significance of some of the right hon. Gentleman's proposals when statistics are eighteen months to two years out of date? Should he not look at this matter again?

We are looking at it, and we are also in touch with the Treasury Organisation and Methods Division with a view to applying automatic data processing to the preparation of these statistics.

Is it not a fact that there is only one statistician in the right hon. Gentleman's Department?

asked the Minister of Education how many local authorities make use of the provisions of the Education Act, 1944, to give financial assistance to art galleries and museums, whether rate-aided or administered by trustees, in England and Wales.

Local education authorities do not need my approval for expenditure of this kind, and I cannot therefore provide information on this point.

Is it not a fact, nevertheless, that the Minister and previous Ministers have accepted responsibility, because in the past they have supplied percentage grants towards this cost where local authorities have given grants? In view of the fact that we are now faced with a block grant, and this service is essentially educational as well as being part of our cultural heritage, will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he is prepared to assist in future particularly by speaking to the Chancellor of the Exchequer and pointing out how important it is that the provision shall now be made, especially in the provinces, for all museums and galleries?

The hon. Member is under some misapprehension about the nature of the assistance that local education authorities give to the museums. It is in the nature of a payment in return for the services that the museums can give to schools and further education activities.

Is it not a fact that a local authority which had not had an arrangement like that with its museums and which now began to make one would find under present legislation that the cost would fall entirely on the rates? Is that likely to make an authority more or less inclined to enter into arrangements of this kind?

It is a matter of deciding where a local authority can best obtain the assistance it needs for the particular purposes concerned. It may have been providing it, for example, in the schools themselves or it may find it more economical to get it from the museums, in which case it would do so.

asked the Minister of Education, in view of the continuing shortage of teachers and the need to reduce overcrowded classes, what further consideration is being given by his Department to proposals for the release of teachers now serving in the Armed Forces.

I am examining various possibilities, in consultation with the other Departments concerned, but I cannot say more today.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether, in view of the terribly urgent need to reduce the size of classes and the fact that it is already recognised that it is more important to keep certain graduate teachers in schools than to put them in the Army, the right hon. Gentleman will make the strongest efforts to stop the calling up of teachers and will try to get back to the schools teachers who are wasting their time in the Forces?

I am already considering the matter.

asked the Minister of Education the latest figures for the number of new teachers entering the profession this year, and for the wastage this year; and how these figures compare with those of the previous two years.

Since the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, publish it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is the Minister aware that we need 7,000 extra teachers each year if we are to cope, and that, while we would congratulate him on the crash programme, every educationist in the country is convinced that even the expanded training colleges programme, which will be eaten up by the three-year course, will leave us gravely in the lurch? Will he not take notice of the advice that he has received constantly, namely, that we need 16,000 extra places rather than 12,000, and will he take emergency steps to initiate a second crash programme?

I will take note of that point. I am looking into the question of a further measure of expansion.

asked the Minister of Education the total number of places in all secondary schools expected to be available at the beginning of the next school year in London, Birmingham, Essex, and the excepted district of Newcastle-under-Lyme, respectively; and what estimate has been made in each case of the number and proportion of 15-year-olds who are likely to stay on at school.

As the Answer contains a number of figures I will, with permission, circulate the information I have available in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Has the right hon. Gentleman taken note of the figures which he gave me a fortnight ago, showing that an increasing proportion of 15year-olds are staying on at school and that the percentage has risen in recent years from 25 to 32 per cent.? Is he aware that, although we know that one of the reasons for that is the lack of juvenile employment, we welcome the fact and we hope that local authorities are making full allowance for a continuance of this development?

Yes, Sir, and we also are doing so in our reactions to the proposals of the local authorities.

asked the Minister of Education to what extent the number and proportion of children who have passed their 15th birthdays and are staying on at school this year have exceeded the expectations and estimates of the education authorities; and what special steps he is taking about the provision of additional places in the secondary schools in the coming school year.

This information will not be available until later this year, but I am sure that there will be enough places in secondary schools next year.

Will the right hon. Gentleman carry out some sort of survey in view of the fact that, especially owing to the employment position in the last twelve months, it is likely that more parents will decide to keep their children at school for a longer period because they have more difficulty in getting jobs when they leave? Will the right hon. Gentleman take some special action to see that local education authorities get busy to ensure that children have full value for the extra period during which they will stay at school?

There is a very great increase in the rate of building of secondary schools. The rate has doubled in the last three years.

When the right hon. Gentleman says that there will be enough places in secondary schools this year, may I take it that he does not mean that there will be enough to get into secondary schools all children of secondary school age, including those now in all-age schools?

All those who, so to speak, will be released into secondary schools as a result of reorganisation during the period.

How can we be sure of that unless estimates have been made of the matter raised in my hon. Friend's Question?

We know the rate at which staying on at school is increasing year by year and, having made a generous allowance with regard to that, we can see as a result of the building programme that there will be ample to cover that number, however large it could be in practice.

The right hon. Gentleman knows that in this matter he has the full support of all parties in the House, but will he make certain that where parents allow their children to stay at school well beyond the age for compulsory attendance, worth-while education and equipment will he available for them?

Certainly, Sir, that is our endeavour, and it is one of the reasons for the large increase in the teacher training colleges.

asked the Minister of Education what steps are being taken to train the blind for piano tuning.

The Royal Normal College, near Shrewsbury, provides training for blind piano tuners, and examinations for the National Diploma have been conducted by the College of Teachers of the Blind for the past thirty years. There is no shortage of training facilities for suitable candidates.

But is the right hon. Gentleman quite satisfied that the training at the Royal Normal College is adequate not only in the practical work of a piano tuner but also in business methods of which it is essential blind people should have some knowledge?

I will certainly look into that question now that the hon. Lady has raised it.

asked the Minister of Education to what extent his action in commenting on proposals made in the Burnham Committee, before they were officially submitted to him, is in accordance with precedent; and how far it indicates a new approach by the Government to the question of teachers' salaries.

In 1944, when the Committee had failed to agree, my right hon. Friend, the Lord Privy Seal, who was then Minister of Education, tried to help the Committee by indicating the sort of proposals which he would be able to approve.

Was it the case in this instance that the Committee had failed to agree? Is it not the position now that it has managed to agree on something which the Minister has said he will not approve? Is there any precedent for that?

At that time the Committee had not reached agreement and asked me for advice.

asked the Minister of Education whether he will now fulfil the undertaking, given in his letter of 20th May, 1959, to include the new school at Goodworth Clatford in the Hampshire County Council's programme for 1960–61.

This school been included in the Hampshire Local Education Authority's building programme for 1961–62. I am sorry that the wrong year was quoted in a recent letter to my hon. Friend.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his apologies, may I ask whether he is aware that this is, quite frankly, not enough? The facilities for primary education in the villages of Goodworth and Upper Clatford are totally unsatisfactory, they have been so for the last fourteen years, and the rebuilding of this bombed school has been held up, admittedly by factors outside the responsibility of my right hon. Friend. Further, is he aware that hopes were raised by the Parliamentary Secretary's letter of 20th May, and that they will now have been dashed? Will my right hon. Friend see if it is possible to include the school in the year which his hon. Friend gave in his letter of 20th May? Otherwise it will be difficult in these villages to maintain the confidence of the parents or teachers in my right hon. Friend and his Ministry.

The essential thing is that in practice the authority can go ahead with plans for the school, and although it has not been included in the programme for 1960–61, it has been included in the programme for 1961–2.

Is the Minister aware that he has placed the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Denzil Freeth) in an impossible position and bitterly disappointed the parents in this part of the county by informing the hon. Gentleman that the school was to be included in the 1960–61 programme at the time when he was informing the members of the Hampshire Education Committee that it was in the 1961–62 programme? Is not the only honourable thing to do to stand by his promise to his hon. Friend?

I am afraid it was less a mistake of policy than almost a typing mistake and I cannot alter the policy.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Minister of Education what steps he will take to promote among local education authorities greater uniformity of policy towards grants for higher education.

I am not aware of any major differences in the policy of local education authorities. There are many other factors which affect the proportion of students selected for awards.

Has the right hon. Gentleman studied the booklet "Grants for Students", produced by the National Union of Students, which does not take quite so optimistic a view of the matter as his Answer would suggest?

Of course, I want uniformity of policy, as I am sure does everybody on all sides of the House. Local authorities have co-operated very much in this direction, but I will certainly see what more can be done.

asked the Minister of Education how many men and women have been admitted to training colleges for next term; how many applicants have been refused places; and how many of those refused admission are above the minimum qualification of five subjects in the General Certificate of Education.

asked the Minister of Education how many otherwise satisfactory candidates for entry to training colleges are likely to be rejected this year because of shortage of accommodation.

Fifteen thousand students had been promised places on 1st April and the eventual number will be even higher. I shall be in a better position to answer the other parts of these Questions later in the year, and I will then write to the hon. Members.

Is the Minister aware that, while we could congratulate the training colleges on what they are doing to cram in students this year, it is now established that both this year and last year at least 1,000 over-average candidates were rejected by the training colleges; and, as this is a waste of potential which the Minister wants so badly, what will he do about it?

The figure I have given is already 1,000 higher than the corresponding figure last year, and we are expanding the colleges considerably.

Will the right hon. Gentleman agree that what matters is not only the number of those who get into the training colleges, which we agree is increasing, but the number of those who would have made competent teachers who are shut out of them year after year? Is there anything more he can do about that? Can he see any way of making a further increase in the size of the training colleges in time for this autumn? We lost 2,000 or 3,000 possible good teachers last year and we do not want to do that again.

As one hon. Gentleman said, the colleges are doing a great deal to make the maximum use of their present facilities.

asked the Minister of Education how many boys from State schools during the current year have been enabled to enter public schools by means of financial aid from public funds under his control.

In March, 1958, local education authorities were paying the full fees for some 7,800 boys at independent schools and were assisting with the fees of about 7.000 others. I cannot however say how many of these boys were attending schools represented on the Head Masters' Conference.

Would it be possible for the Minister to get that information, because it is important to discriminate between those who are in the public schools of the Headmasters' Conference and those who are not? Secondly, could he say now what proportion or percentage of the total number of pupils in our public schools are drawn from State schools?

I could not do so without notice.

asked the Minister of Education what advice he is giving to local education authorities with regard to changes in school curricula as a consequence of the abolition of Latin as a compulsory subject for the entrance examination to certain universities.

I understand that one of the two universities concerned has recently reached a decision on this matter, but I see no reason on that account to give advice to local education authorities.

Whatever the universities decide, will the Minister give every encouragement to the study of Latin, which is at the heart of Western civilisation? Is it not one of the difficulties of the Russians that few of them learn Latin?

I do not want to embark on the broad question and I think it is important that, as Minister of Education, I should not air my personal views on this matter.

asked the Minister of Agriculture. Fisheries and Food to what extent catches of the fishing fleet have suffered since the Icelandic Government's attempt to extend their fishing limits.

These catches fluctuate considerably owing to such factors as natural changes in fish stocks and variable weather. It is difficult, therefore, to give an accurate assessment of the extent to which catches have suffered as a result of the Icelandic Government's attempt to extend their fishing limits.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, in spite of the appallingly bad weather last winter, the figures that are available show that British trawlermen are able and willing to carry on fishing up to the four-mile limit, and would he try again to persuade the Icelandic Government to enter into a truce in this matter until it is considered by the Conference on the Law of the Sea next year?

Yes, Sir, I think that what my hon. Friend has said is sensible. I am only too willing, and so are Her Majesty's Government, to have talks with the Icelandic Government. We have put forward various proposals to them and we have shown in our recent agreement with the Danes over the Faroese Islands that we are willing to come to some sensible arrangement. Unfortunately, so far there has been no response from Iceland.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what action, arising from the resolution passed by the recent International Veterinary Congress at Madrid, he is taking to maintain contact with other Governments interested in research into foot-and-mouth disease, with the object of ensuring that other countries, particularly the American countries, understand that the United Kingdom is not a foot-and-mouth country.

I can assure my hon. Friend that we take every opportunity afforded by our close contact with other countries, particularly through international organisations concerned with veterinary matters, to make it clear to them that foot-and-mouth disease is not endemic in Great Britain.

Will my right hon. Friend say what success he has had in the South American countries?

I can tell my hon. Friend that we are continually bringing to the attention of South American Governments the fact that foot-and-mouth is not endemic in this country. We have our own veterinary advisers in South America, and they have a particular role. We also make these points clear through ordinary diplomatic channels. It is a question of continuing to educate.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement on the progress achieved in putting into operation those remedial measures for arresting the erosion of the banks of the River Severn towards which he announced in June. 1958, a grant under the Land Drainage Act, 1930.

I am informed by the Severn River Board that it has encountered many obstacles in getting this work started, including the need to re-organise the arrangements for the supply of stone which will in future be carried to the sites by water. Satisfactory progress is now being made in this preliminary work and the main revetment work will begin shortly.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the present throughput of the British bacon curing industry; and how this compares with that for the previous three years.

The weekly average production of bacon in Great Britain during April and May, 1959, was 3,160 tons compared with 3,180 tons, 2,920 tons and 2.960 tons in the corresponding periods in 1956, 1957 and 1958 respectively.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the sow population for the latest available date; and how this compares with the corresponding figure for the previous three years.

The most reliable figures I can give the hon. Gentleman are taken from the March quarterly census returns. These show that in March, 1959, there were 572,000 sows and gilts for breeding on agricultural holdings over 1 acre. The corresponding figures for the three previous years are:

1956	…	…	…	568,000
1957	…	…	…	584,000
1958	…	…	…	682,000

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his figures show that the bacon factories are being used to only about 40 per cent. of their capacity? Is he aware that at the same time his Department estimates that in the present quarter there will be 300,000 fewer pigs for slaughter and there will be 400,000 fewer next quarter? What is he doing in these circumstances to allay the anxieties of both the pig industry and the pig processing industry?

My Answer shows that in the period which I mentioned a larger amount of bacon was being produced from our factories than was produced last year or the year before that. It is true that with the decline in the breeding herd there will be a fall in the number of pigs available for market, but I think that the hon. Gentleman would agree with me when I say that there is no reason why curers should not obtain a fair share of the supply of pigs available. The hon. Gentleman will recall that the Government felt it necessary last year to reduce the standard price for pigs, because at that time there was a high and increasing level of pig population which was being achieved at a very high cost in subsidy and also by a large increase in imported feeding stuffs.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that for some considerable time the factories have been working under capacity and now they are threatened with a drop in supplies over the next six months? In view of this, will he at least consult the industry and perhaps consult the Pig Industry Development Authority as well?

The hon. Gentleman's figures are wrong. The factories are working at 67 per cent. of the highest level which they have ever reached. As the industry knows, I am only too willing to see it at any time it wishes.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether in view of doubts about the existing law in relation to the admissibility as tax-exempt expenditure of donations by business firms for purposes of political and other propaganda campaigns, he will introduce legislation to ensure that such donations are not admitted by the Board of Inland Revenue as admissible deductions in the computation of Income Tax and Profits Tax.

Expenditure by a trader is not allowable as a deduction for tax purposes unless it was incurred wholly and exclusively for the purposes of his trade. In these circumstances my right hon. Friend sees no reason for fresh legislation on the matter.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the Director of the Institute of Directors has fairly and honestly stated that donations to his campaign are not deductible for tax purposes, but the National Union of Manufacturers has stated that donations to its campaign are deductible for tax purposes? In view of this confusion, will the Chancellor or the hon. and learned Gentleman take steps to clarify the situation so that we know exactly where we are?

I do not think that there is any doubt as to what the law says in this matter or that it is fair and equitable. Different people may think that particular expenses fall one side or other of the line, but it is not for my right hon. Friend to disabuse them if they are under a misapprehension.

Will not the hon. and learned Gentleman state clearly that the Chancellor will take steps to ensure that such donations are not admissible for tax exemption? Is he aware that there is very great concern about the matter in the country? Will he say whether the unwillingness of the Government to act either administratively or legislatively has anything to do with their conception of party advantage?

No, Sir. As I think I have told the House before, the position is that where there is any doubt the Inland Revenue inspector challenges the expenditure and leaves the taxpayer to make his case on appeal.

Is the political levy of the bosses' trade union collected by contracting in or contracting out?

Why should the law apply differently to the Co-operative movement compared with private trade? Every penny spent by the Co-operative movement in protecting itself against politicians is taxable, whereas when Messrs. Tate and Lyle and the steel companies proceed to use money to protect themselves, as they say, against the Labour Party, it is not subject to taxation. Why should there be this distinction?

I should like to answer the hon. Gentleman, but it would be quite wrong for me to do so. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] It is a fundamental rule upon which the House has always insisted that a Minister shall not discuss the affairs of any individual taxpayer.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that my Question does not refer to individual taxpayers? Is he also aware that I have here the campaign document from the National Union of Manufacturers? Appealing for subscriptions for its campaign, it says:

"Subscriptions to the National Union are allowed as a trade expense for taxation purposes."

If I pass this document to the hon. and learned Gentleman, will he take steps to disabuse the National Union of Manufacturers about this somewhat fraudulent indication to the people to whom it is appealing?

I need hardly say that I will carefully consider any material which the right hon. Gentleman draws to my attention. Nevertheless, it is not the function of my right hon. Friend to correct every misapprehension that may exist in the minds of any particular publicist.

Is it a misapprehension?

The right hon. Gentleman asks "Is it a misapprehension?" That is a matter for the law to state, not for me.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why he decided to sell Her Majesty's Government's holding in Societé D'Investissements Mobiliers by private tender; and how this was carried out.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the Answer given on 23rd June to the hon. Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Lewis).

Is this the general custom now, or was this a special case?

There could hardly be said to be a general custom in matters of this sort. This case was decided on its merits.

Can the Economic Secretary say whether the Government, before taking the step of selling the Suez investments, consulted the heirs of Disraeli?

I could not answer that supplementary question without notice.