asked the Minister of Labour if he has considered a letter which the National and Local Government Officers' Association recently sent him, complaining of an employer's refusal to recognise the Association as a negotiating body in a dispute where over 80 per cent. of the members of the clerical and supervisory staff have joined the Association; and what action he will take in response to the Association's appeal to help them resolve this dispute.

Yes, Sir, and I have arranged in the first instance for my officers to discuss the matter with representatives of the Association.

Whilst thanking the Minister for that action, may I ask him whether he does not think that the workers concerned are being extraordinarily patient and restrained in view of the fact that the refusal to recognise the Association has gone on over a period of years? Will his Department take some serious action to make the employers see reason?

I am meeting, or rather my representatives are meeting, representatives of the Association tomorrow, so we are moving as quickly as we can on that. With respect, I think that the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question goes too wide. I do not think it is right for the Minister of Labour, or within his power, to force any employer to recognise any particular association. I am, however, very glad to have these talks.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will give the number of redundancy compensation schemes now in operation by firms and industries in this country.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will arrange to publish details of industrial schemes of compensation for redundancy now in operation.

No comprehensive figures are available, but a certain amount of information has been collected by my Department; these details could not be made public without the authority of the firms concerned.

In the information which the right hon. Gentleman gives us about the schemes will he include information of the schemes under which directors retire on £60,000 or something of that sort—the method by which it is done?

asked the Minister of Labour, having regard to the increasing number of teen-agers leaving school in the period 1960–62, his plans for providing them with suitable employment on leaving school.

I am confident that an expanding economy will absorb these school leavers into employment, but training opportunities will need to be considerably expanded. This is engaging the attention of the Industrial Training Council.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether the plans of the Minister for the future include consideration of the continuation of part-time education for these teen-agers so as to strengthen their prospects of finding suitable and profitable employment?

I think that the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is wide of the Question. Perhaps he will put down another Question.

On the question of youngsters leaving school and the problem of finding work for them, will the Parliamentary Secretary consider issuing from time to time a report about the progress of the Industrial Training Council in order that we may be kept abreast of what is happening?

Yes, I will certainly do that.

asked the Minister of Labour what proposals have been made to extend the Remploy factory at Sunderland.

No such extension is proposed at present.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that not only have we a very high incidence of unemployment among the disabled in Sunderland but that recently one of his own officials said that the real problem is that the seriously disabled have no prospect of obtaining employment in open industry? In view of this, does he not think that the Government must accept the obligation of providing employment for these seriously disabled persons who, otherwise, will be thoroughly demoralised?

I, of course, am with the hon. Gentleman in wanting to find employment for those people who are not fit for employment in open industry. As the hon. Gentleman knows, there is a Remploy factory and a workshop for the blind, and they employ a number of very severely disabled people. The number of severely disabled without employment is about the same now as it was two or three years ago. Although I should like to see the facilities increased, I am told that at the moment the position of Remploy is not sufficient to give it any hope of increasing the facilities which it is at present offering.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the imminent closure of the Cardiff Foundry and Engineering Company (1947) due to a fall in demand for iron castings; and whether, in view of the consequent unemployment of Cardiff workers, he will make a statement on alternative employment prospects.

Yes, Sir Of 80 workers dismissed in the past few weeks, only 22 are still registered as unemployed, 6 of whom are under submission to vacancies. Efforts to place those unemployed will continue and I am encouraged by the progress already made in resolving this redundancy.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the B.S.A., which is the main holder of this company, has behaved very badly indeed to the apprentices, some of whom have completed two or three years and were just thrown out without their time counting? Would he ask this firm to give further consideration to the question of finding work for these apprentices?

I will look at the point about apprentices, which is a new one to me. The firm has certainly provided redundancy payments for many of these people. On the general question, perhaps the hon. Member will remember that he had this Question down for me last week, when I was going to give him an extremely discouraging answer. The position has improved so much in the last few days that we have made a great deal of progress in regard to these people.

asked the Minister of Labour what additional facilities he will provide at the end of 1960 to help the 570 civilians now employed at No. 41 Group Headquarters, Royal Air Force station, Andover, who will then become redundant.

It is too soon to say how many civilian employees will become redundant at the end of 1960 and whether any additional facilities will then be needed to assist them to find other employment.

Will my right hon. Friend consider keeping in touch with the Secretary of State for Air, so that his regional officer in Andover may contact those who are likely to become redundant, as soon as definite information is known about individual cases?

Yes. We are, of course, closely in touch, but in an area where unemployment is under 1 per cent. it is too far in front of the event to make detailed plans. If advanced registration nearer the time will help, of course we will arrange it.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall the request he made some time ago, which was reinforced from all parts of the House, that employers who are about to discard, or in future will discard, some of their labour should give local employment exchanges as much prior notice as they can? In connection with this industry I have the same problem at Burtonwood. Could the right hon. Gentleman make a special effort to reinforce the original plea which he made?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that suggestion. Nothing is more helpful to the placing of workers than if I and my officers can have advance information about prospective changes in employment, either up or down.

On the question of apprentices, it is common ground on both sides of the House that we do not want to see them have their apprenticeship broken after one or two years, in the way mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. G. Thomas) in his supplementary question on Question No. 5. Would the Minister ask his officers to look specially at the question of redundancy in connection with apprentices, who might be transferred to other places at which their apprenticeship could be continued?

I will certainly do so. I was going to write to the hon. Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. G. Thomas) about the last Question. I will send a copy to the right hon. Gentleman, if I may.

asked the Minister of Labour to what extent the total of food items in the retail prices index has changed in the past year.

At 12th May, 1959, the index for the food group of the retail prices index was about 0·4 per cent. below the corresponding figure for 13th May, 1958.

As this is the first year since the war that, on the whole, food prices in the shops have fallen, would my right hon. Friend tell us briefly which foods in particular have contributed to this result?

Beer.

I do not know whether hon. Members consider beer to be a food but I assure them that it is not included in this Index. Foods that have gone down over the year are potatoes, vegetables, fresh fruit and eggs which, on the whole, seem to be home-produced. Those that have gone up are butter, cheese and beef, a large proportion of which no doubt come from overseas.

How much have the weights gone down?

The weight of food in pre-packages, which is presumably what the hon. Lady means, does not come into this matter, because allowance for any change in weights is made every month when we take our soundings of the figures.

asked the Minister of Labour what variation has occurred in the total numbers of people unemployed in Wales between February and the latest convenient date for which figures are available; what is his estimate of the future trend of employment in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

Between February and June, 1959, unemployment in Wales fell by just under 13,000 to a total of 32,367, i.e. a drop of 28 per cent. Industrial details for June are not yet available but the improvement between February and May this year, whilst partly seasonal, included a substantial decrease in a number of manufacturing industries, especially iron and steel. I have every reason to expect that Wales will continue to share in the economic expansion which is affecting unemployment, in addition to benefiting from a number of new projects in South Wales where most of the working population is concentrated.

To what extent has this very welcome change affected the more difficult areas in North-West and Southwest Wales?

I would like my hon. Friend to put down a further Question, when I will cover that point. It remains true that in many areas, like North-West Wales, there are great difficulties unsolved which we must continue to try to solve.

What is the employment position in Wales as distinct from the unemployment position?

Employment figures are always received a little later than the unemployment figures. They will be issued in a few days and I have every reason to believe that they will be extremely satisfactory.

asked the Minister of Labour what arrangements he has with the nationalised industries to enable him to anticipate redundancies in their employment, for example, in the collieries; and when he expects the next phase of redundancies through closure at Douglas Castle Colliery in the County of Lanark.

Arrangements for informal consultation are made as required, with the co-operation of my right hon. Friends the Minister of Power and the Minister of Transport and Civil Aviation. I understand that the next and final stage of closure at Douglas Castle Colliery is timed for September next.

Does my right hon. Friend know, and can he tell us, how many remaining workers at Douglas will be affected? Will he keep this matter constantly before his hon. and right hon. colleagues, so that something can be done to arrest the complete decline and ruination of this large area?

On the question of numbers, 115 men are affected in total, but I do not know how many of them may yet be transferred to other employment. I will certainly keep in touch with my right hon. Friends on this matter.

These closures very often mean, as in the case of the hon. Member's constituency, the dereliction of a complete village. Will the right hon. Gentleman consult the President of the Board of Trade about alternative industries for many of the areas which, under the new National Coal Board plan, are likely to become derelict?

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has emphasised that aspect of the matter, because the social effect of closures must be studied along with the economic effects.

Will the right hon. Gentleman help me to get new industries established in Douglas?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the difficulties experienced by men awaiting call-up, owing to the fact that they are not informed immediately as to the actual date when they are expected to report for duty; what action he will take to remedy this; and whether he will make a statement.

In the closing stages of National Service delays in call-up cannot be avoided, but arrangements have recently been made so that a man can be given advance information when his medical examination and enlistment may be expected.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a constituent of mine was registered as long ago as 14th June, 1958. He had his medical examination in December last year, but still has no information and cannot find out where he has to go and what he has to do.

I shall be glad to look into that special case. It is bound to happen in the closing stages that some people become available more quickly than the Service requires them; this sort of difficulty is bound to arise. I have sent out further instructions, dated 29th June, which I hope will get over the sort of difficulty to which the right hon. Gentleman has called my attention.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty when it is intended to lay down a nuclear-powered missile-carrying submarine.

It has never been the practice to disclose information of this sort.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his Answer is most disappointing? Could he not give the House some information or at least some reasons to justify his reply? Would he not agree that such a vessel may be of vital importance to the Royal Navy and to this country in the future?

It would be unwise to reveal naval plans several years before the keel of a ship is laid down. Our submarine plans have always carried a higher degree of security even than that demanded for surface ships. I agree with my hon. Friend that this type of vessel will be of supreme importance in the future to our navy. That is one of the reasons why it would be unwise to give any information at this stage.

Has not the Parliamentary Secretary said something which is very important when he said "several years before the keel is laid down". Is it really to be several years before we consider laying the hulls of nuclear-powered submarines of this character?

I cannot give any information on this subject at this stage. I have stated the general principle of not announcing future naval plans. This has prevailed for many years, if not for all time, and it would be a mistake to depart from it at this juncture.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he will now make a further statement about the future of Clayton motor transport depot in Newcastle-under-Lyme.

In accordance with an undertaking given to the local authorities and in order to save overheads, the motor transport depot at Clayton, together with its satellites, is being transferred to the Royal Naval Armament Depot, Minworth. The existing premises will be vacated at the end of this year.

Could the Civil Lord be a bit more forthcoming? Will it be possible now to announce to those who are employed at this depot a clear plan as to their future? They have been in a state of uncertainty for months, knowing that this depot would be closed. Is it not possible now to say how many men will remain redundant and what offers of other employment will be available to them?

I shall certainly look into the possibility of doing that, but in general terms the rundown will start at the end of July and finish by the middle of December.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty why workers at Clayton motor transport depot, Newcastle-under-Lyme, have been told that they can have only one week's paid holiday this year.

Admiralty workpeople are entitled to at least two weeks' paid leave for a full year's service. This leave is earned gradually throughout the twelve months, and some of the workpeople at Clayton will not be employed by us long enough to earn the Ml amount. They will, therefore, be allowed to take only part of their holiday as paid leave and the rest as unpaid leave, if they require it. If at the end of their employment they are found to have earned more leave with pay, they will then be paid for it.

Will the hon. Gentleman look carefully at this matter and give an assurance that the Admiralty will not work out its redundancy plan for these workers at Clayton in such a fashion as deliberately to do some of them out of holidays 1o which otherwise they would be entitled? Will he therefore examine the plan very carefully?

I shall certainly look into it, but I do not believe the suggestion made by the hon. Member was ever in the mind of the Admiralty.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty why, in view of the fact that numbers of Her Majesty's ships visited all the South Wales ports during the summer of 1958, only the port of Barry has been omitted from the South Wales ports to be visited in 1959; and if he will make a statement.

The demand from numerous home ports for visits by Her Majesty's ships unfortunately cannot always be satisfied and our aim is to provide a fair share of visits over the country as a whole.

In future when arranging visits will my hon. Friend take account of the fact that in each of the last ten years the town, the council and people of Barry have made very special arrangements for visits of Her Majesty's ships and for the entertainment of their companies? On each occasion they have organised a special marine festival. Does my hon. Friend agree that this probably has been something more than has been arranged in many other places?

All I would say is that I know our ships' companies have very much enjoyed visits to Barry and, should extra ships become available, we shall see whether Barry can be included.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that Barry, Cardiff and other South Wales ports need not just an occasional visit but a resumption of the part those ports played in the shipping of this country before the war?

While in no way trying to compete with the parochial interests of the hon. Member who represents my neighbouring constituency of Barry (Mr. Gower), may I ask if the hon. Gentleman will bear in mind that Barry is quite unable to offer what the City of Cardiff offers?

I am very glad to find the hon. Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. G. Thomas) supporting the principle of competition in entertaining ships' companies.

asked the Secretary of State for War the circumstances in which William Firth was dismissed from the Territorial Army.

There is a regulation that beards may not be worn in the Army and this applies to the Territorial Army during annual camps. Mr. Firth was discharged for refusing to comply.

Who makes these regulations—Moses? Whilst it might be quite reasonable for a Regular soldier, surely it is an absurd piece of bureaucracy to require a Territorial to alter his facial arrangements for a fortnight's camp?

The hon. and learned Member naturally shows a Royal Navy predisposition for beards, but I might point out that in his Service they are not allowed to wear moustaches unless they wear beards. Territorial Army soldiers like to be as smart on these parades as the rest of the Army.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make a statement on the future of the Joint Experimental Helicopter Unit.

The unit will continue its present work until the end of this year. No decision has been made beyond that.

Would the hon. Gentleman be good enough to say when that decision was taken because, as recently as a few weeks ago, this unit had been informed that as from September it would cease to exist in its present form? If the policy has been reconsidered and there has been a change of heart, that is very welcome news.

There is no change of policy. It was agreed a year ago that there would be a year's extension.

Are we to take it that the situation now is that this unit will continue for at least another year?

No, Sir. As I explained in my Answer, unless there is a decision to keep this unit in being it will close at the end of this year.

In that case, will the hon. Gentlemen be good enough to say what considerations have caused this experimental unit to be wound up when every other army in the world it paying increasing interest to the use of helicopters?

As the hon. Member knows, this unit has been used for experimental tactical purposes. It started four years ago and the question arises whether it has come out of the realm of the tactical experimental stage into the tactical application stage.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that at the earliest opportunity I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will make a statement on the future use of helicopters by the Army.

Helicopters of the Royal Air Force and the Army Air Corps will be used increasingly in support of the Army in the field. Their tasks will include the carriage of troops, supplies and equipment, casualty evacuation, reconnaissance and liaison in forward areas.

Is it not a fact that, in view of the Army's present policy of limiting helicopters to a 4,000 1b. weight, the Army has to fit two men according to their size? If it has a fat man it has to put him in with a thin man or they cannot manage their rifles. Does not this indicate that the Government are pursuing a fantastic policy, for which they are not prepared to ask the country to pay?

With respect, it is not a fantastic policy in the least. The policy was clearly laid down by the Minister of Defence the other day. There must be a limit between Army responsibilities and the responsibility of the Royal Air Force which is equipped to deal with heavier machines.

The fact is that the Russians certainly have hundreds or even thousands of helicopters and we have about half a dozen. Is the Financial Secretary prepared to reconsider this policy which limits Army helicopters to 4,000 1b. weight with all the consequences which flow from that?

As was explained by my right hon. Friend the other day, there is no permanent "Plimsol line". As these helicopters get bigger, the size will go up. It is purely an administrative matter.

As a matter of interest, will the hon. Gentleman tell the House how many helicopters the Army uses?

The Army is well equipped at the moment with small Skeeter reconnaissance helicopters.

Will they be of any value in the field?

Yes, Sir. They are of great value for reconnaissance and liaison.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is satisfied that the School of Infantry has sufficient supplies of modern equipment to enable adequate study of modern tactical and strategic problems to be carried out; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The most modern weapons and equipment in service are at the school's disposal. Prototypes are tested there and the school is consulted at all stages of research and development.

Will the hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that all members of the staff of the School of Infantry are satisfied with the equipment which is available?

As I see it, in this instance enough is never enough, but what is quite clear is that the staff has the best equipment that we have available. I think one of the reasons why the hon. Member is asking this Question is that he went to a demonstration the other day when a great many things on the secret list were not shown, not because he was present, but because there were many foreign attachés from beyond the Iron Curtain present.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for War what protests he has received from Colchester about his proposal to transfer military prisoners from Shepton Mallet to the prison there; and what has been the nature of his reply.

My right hon. Friend has written in answer to an inquiry by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Mr. Alport), to say that we are considering an extension of Berechurch Camp, Colchester, to house those soldiers undergoing long terms of detention who are now kept at Shepton Mallet. This transfer would not apply to men serving sentences of imprisonment—as distinct from detention—whom it is hoped will be confined in civil prisons when the Army tenure of Shepton Mallet expires.

Would the Minister tell us something of the nature of the protests which he has received from the Under-Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations? Is it in accordance with the principle of Governmental collective responsibility for one Minister to complain to another in this way? Is he aware that there are eight Scottish soldiers serving in Shepton Mallet who do not want to go to Colchester? They want to go home.

Clearly the hon. Member belongs to so many different nationalities that he comes under the office of the Minister for Commonwealth Relations. I am sure that the Minister will be extremely grateful to the hon. Member for having raised this question. If the people of Colchester are worried it can be said that if we proceed with this plan there are two aspects which should reassure them. First, the real criminals, the men who have been sentenced to terms of imprisonment, will not be sent there. They will be sent to civil prisons. Secondly, long-term detainees who are due to be discharged from the Army will be kept in a separate wing under conditions of special security. They will be separate from the short-sentence detainees, who will be kept in the Military Corrective Training Establishment, as at present.

asked the Postmaster-General, in view of the adverse report of the Medical Panel of the Advertising Inquiry Committee on Press and Television Advertising on the advertisements on television of medical preparations and such items as toothpaste and slimming courses, what consultations have taken place under Section 4 (5) of the Television Act, 1954, between the Independent Television Authority and himself regarding such advertisements.

Consultations take place from time to time with the Authority about classes of goods and services which must not be advertised and methods of advertising which must not be employed. I agreed in March last an amendment to the rules about products or treatments for slimming. The report referred to by the hon. Member makes no specific criticism of contravention of television advertisement rules or of the rules them-selves.

Is there not some evidence that some television viewers are being seriously imposed upon by some television advertisements? Has not the right hon. Gentleman adequate powers under the Television Act to put a stop to it?

If the hon. Member thinks that any specific advertisement falls within the category of his supplementary question, I should be grateful if he would tell me what it is, and I will look into it.

Is not some of the trouble due to the fact that the meetings of the medical panel and the full committee are so infrequent that the decisions of the medical panel are sometimes not considered until months after they have been taken? In this difficult matter of determining whether claims are false or otherwise, ought not the machinery to be speeded up?

I do not think so. If any hon. Member puts forward a complaint to me it will be looked into straight away.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will seek to amend the Licence and Agreement with the British Broadcasting Corporation, and the Television Act, 1954, in order to provide that when statements have been made on talks or political broadcasts which are subsequently found to be inaccurate the first possible opportunity must be taken to correct the error and such correction must be repeated at least twice.

No, Sir.

Does not my right hon. Friend think it very serious if misstatements are put out over a wide television network and are not corrected? Would he at least try to arrange that the B.B.C. and I.T.A. make transcripts of all the previous day's spoken transmissions and that these transcripts are supplied on the following day and made available in the Library for hon. Members to check?

That would be a heavy commitment for the B.B.C. and I.T.A. to undertake. It also raises the question of what is a misstatement. There are many views about it. Many misstatements are of a trivial nature. Those which are of a serious nature become news, and I think they are corrected almost immediately both in broadcasting and in the Press.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will use his powers under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement to require the British Broadcasting Corporation to refrain from sending on 23rd August a programme entitled, "The Week's Good Cause", in which an appeal is to be made by the Bishop of Southwark on behalf of the Family Planning Association, in view of the controversy aroused in Christian circles by the subject of birth control and the resentment which will be caused to many of them in the United Kingdom.

No, Sir. I do not think it appropriate to use the powers of direction under Clause 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement, as suggested by my hon. Friend. I think we should do well to leave this matter to the Governors of the B.B.C. who in this sphere have the help of their Appeals Advisory Committees.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the main object of my asking the Question is to see that this appeal should not be made on "The Week's Good Cause," as the Family Planning Association, which used to be called the Birth Control Association, is a very controversial body and definitely advises that married women should go in for contraception and birth control without the knowledge or permission of their husbands? Would it not be wiser for this to be debated? Could it not be dealt with as a debatable subject so that it could be answered? Is he further aware that Sir Ian Jacob told me that the questions of birth control and contra- ception would not be brought up? If that is so, is not the Bishop of Southwark making an appeal for money under false pretences and—?

Order.

It is for the B.B.C. to decide. The B.B.C. has informed me that in allowing it several factors were taken into account. First, the B.B.C. Appeals Advisory Committee raised no objection. Secondly, local authorities, the regional hospital boards, doctors and others send cases to the Family Planning Association. Thirdly, the Family Planning Association is not concerned only with birth control; in fact, it helps married couples who find themselves sterile and wish to have children. In those circumstances, I do not think that I could possibly use the powers given under the Section.

Will the Minister also bear in mind that the Royal Commission on Population recommended that family planning facilities should be a part of the National Health Service and that it is only in default of that having been instituted that these appeals for voluntary funds still have to be made? Will he remind his hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Mr. Teeling) that the Lambeth Conference has given its blessing not only to family planning facilities, which this Association provides, but also to its compassionate and very Christian work in helping couples to have children who are otherwise unable to do so?

I should not like to enter into this controversy. I have given my Answer, which is a reasonable Answer in all the circumstances.

asked the Postmaster-General what notice he has given to the British Broadcasting Corporation to refrain from including in "The Week's Good Cause" publicity for actions which large bodies of Christian opinion hold to be bad; and whether he will now give notice to the British Broadcasting Corporation to refrain from including in its "The Week's Good Cause" programme publicity for such controversial practices as euthanasia, abortion and birth control, or for persons or organisations advocating them.

None, Sir. On the second part of the Question, as I have already said in reply to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Mr. Teeling) I think that we should do well to leave matters such as these to the discretion of the Governors of the B.B.C.

Will my right hon. Friend bear three points in mind? First, no amount of popularity makes a bad action good. Secondly, in this particular matter we are dealing with something highly controversial and the proposal that this should be broadcast in "The Week's Good Cause" means that the B.B.C. is declaring it to be good. Thirdly, there has been much misrepresentation about the Lambeth Conference resolutions, which should be studied together from 1908 onwards.

That may be so. I did not make that decision because it was a popular decision. I had no idea whether it was popular or unpopular. I made it because I considered it my duty on the evidence available. As to the Question on the Order Paper. I do not know of any charitable organisation which would carry out such illegal practices as abortion, and so on. Therefore, it is not likely that an appeal would be asked for, and it is certainly unlikely that it would ever be allowed.

On a point of order. Up to now, we have been assured at the Table that we cannot possibly put down a Question to the Postmaster-General on the programmes of the B.B.C. As recently as the controversy over the Scottish B.B.C. Orchestra, several hon. Members were turned away from the Table because the Postmaster-General had no responsibility. How do these Questions come to be on the Order Paper today?

They are not asking about particular items in the programmes, which are the responsibility of the British Broadcasting Corporation. Question No. 33 was about certain powers which the Postmaster-General has under Section 15 of the Licence and Agreement. It all depends on how the Question is phrased and what it refers to.

Further to that point of order. A number of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen have experienced difficulty in putting on the Order Paper Questions relating to particular items. This Question raises a very important item that is to appear in a B.B.C. programme. The right hon. Gentleman has accepted responsibility for answering it. It is rather strange that this Question has been allowed to come on to the Order Paper when so many others of a similar type have been refused.

I admit that sometimes the borderline is rather difficult to see, but I think that this Question is in order. If an hon. Member has difficulty with a Question and is dissatisfied with its rejection, I am always very willing to see the hon. Member to try to explain the matter.

Further to that point of order. Are we to understand that, if an hon. Member asks the Postmaster-General what notice he has given to the B.B.C. about any particular programme, that will be in order?

I should not like to give a general answer about all sorts of questions. This Question, I am told, is in order.

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. You said that it was not a specific case, but the Question specifically names a broadcast on 23rd August entitled "The Week's Good Cause". It seems to me to be definitely specific.

One would have to consult the Licence and Agreement to ascertain exactly what powers the Postmaster-General has. I have not the Licence and Agreement with me. I do not carry it in my head. It may be that a Question can be framed with reference to it which is in order, whereas other general questions about programmes infringe upon the B.B.C.'s own responsibility.

Further to that point of order. You will notice that the Question is framed on the assumption that the Postmaster-General has given notice to the B.B.C. The Question says:

"what notice he has given to the British Broadcasting Corporation"

If an hon. Member makes a statement of a fact or assumes a fact in his Question, he is responsible, not the Table.

Further to that point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Postmaster-General what representations he has received concerning the programme, "The Week's Good Cause", which is proposed to be broadcast by the British Broadcasting Corporation on 23rd August; and what consideration he is giving to the use of his powers under Section 15 (4) of the Licence and Agreement to prohibit such programmes from being broadcast.

Up to 30th June I had received nine letters in favour of the broadcast taking place, one of which was signed by 28 people, and 41 letters against it.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that every 300 days the population of the world is increasing by more than the total who were killed in both world wars and that the justification for this broadcast is that many people are gravely perturbed at the prospect of unlimited numbers of children being brought into a world which, even now, is unable to provide for millions of them enough food, shelter or clothing?

I did not carry those statistics in my head. The best thing I can do is to send the details of this to the B.B.C. and ask the B.B.C. if it will show them to the chairman of the Appeals Advisory Committee so that he will know the views of hon. Members.

Will the right hon. Gentleman refrain from becoming a party to sectarian pressures about a highly controversial matter? Will he, as usual, endeavour to keep himself completely above the battle?

That is exactly why I will not enter into the controversy and exactly why I refuse to do so. This is a matter for the B.B.C. If any hon. Members in any part of the House have any expression of opinion and wish to put it forward, it is for the B.B.C. and not for me to consider it.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is, I hope, the desire now on both sides of the House—may we convey this to some of the hon. Members who have asked these Questions—that we want them to show to people with other views the same tolerance as the House has shown to them?

On a point of order. The Postmaster-General has said that he has sent me some letters. I have received no letters from him, but I have received over 200 letters on this subject.

That is not a point of order for me. This matter is to be raised on the Adjournment later.

I never said that I had sent any letters to my hon. Friend.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) when the Report of the Television Advisory Committee dealing with the problem of lineage, allocation of wavelengths, and colour will be published;

The Technical Sub-Committee to which the right hon. Member refers is a sub-committee set up by my Television Advisory Committee to advise it on certain matters. It does not report to me. It is the Television Advisory Committee which will report to me. The form of its Report is a matter for it and I have already promised the House that I will place a copy in the Library.

As the previous Sub-Committee's Report was contained in the Television Advisory Committee's second Report which has been published as a White Paper, would it not be in the interests of securing a balanced view about what is to take place with regard to the change of lineage and colour that all that information should be before the House before the right hon. Gentleman forms any view about it?

If it is to be presented as the right hon. Gentleman suggests, we must wait for the main Committee's Report before both of them are published; but I must wait until the main Committee has reported.

asked the Postmaster-General what instructions were issued to the British delegation to the International Conference held in the United States of America to consider matters relating to television and sound transmissions.

I assume that the right hon. Gentleman is referring to the recent meeting of the International Radio Consultative Committee at Los Angeles which discussed the question of common standards for television in Bands IV and V. The instructions to the British delegation concerned channel spacing in these Bands and followed the advice given to me in the letter of 18th March from the Chairman of my Television Advisory Committee. My hon. Friend told the hon. Member for Bristol, West (Mr. Robert Cooke) on 25th March last that a copy of this letter had been placed in the Library.

As I understand that the right hon. Gentleman has a Frequency Committee advising him, will he make available to the House such advice as has been obtained from the Frequency Committee?

A copy of the letter is already available in the Library.

asked the Postmaster-General the total amount standing in unclaimed balances in Post Office Savings Bank accounts in which there have been no transactions for more than twenty years.

The amount is estimated to have been £5,770,000 at 1st January, 1959.

As the balances are mostly in the names of depositors who died without relatives or heirs, would the Minister consider transferring them to the Exchequer, subject to reclaim at any later date? Does not this involve the even bigger question of the hundreds of millions of £s lying in the joint stock banks, the Big Five, which are using them for their own purposes? Is not the nation entitled to this money?

Order. The Postmaster-General is not responsible for the joint stock banks.

I am grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. As you truly said, I am not responsible for the joint stock banks. Deposits in the savings bank cannot be diverted to some other purpose because that is precluded by the Post Office Savings Bank Act, 1954. Under that Act deposits must be held without limit of time subject to withdrawal at the demand of the depositor or other legally entitled person.

asked the Postmaster-General when it is estimated that Stoke-on-Trent will have a new automatic exchange for trunk dialling.

During 1964–65, when we expect to complete the installation of a new exchange in a new building for which we are now acquiring a site.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a very long time away for a large city such as Stoke-on-Trent and for the area which this trunk dialling exchange would cover, which is the whole of North Staffordshire almost down as far as Stafford? Could he not bring the date forward to a much earlier date than 1964?

I am afraid not. Whenever we change equipment it is desirable that we should install subscribers' trunk dialling instead of the old automatic equipment. As we propose that almost 60 per cent. of the calls shall be subscriber trunk dialled in the next five years, it is a fairly good programme.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) the charges which are asked of subscribers who live three miles or over from a telephone exchange; when these charges were fixed; how many times they have been reviewed since then; and what recommendations the Post Office Advisory Committee have made to reduce these charges;

For exclusive lines, the present extra quarterly charge is 10s. for each furlong beyond three miles from the exchange; for shared lines the rate is 5s. per furlong. These charges were put before the House in July, 1957, and introduced on 1st October, 1957. The charges do not fully cover the costs of these long lines. On the other hand, I think it would be unreasonable to allow the whole of the extra costs to fall on telephone users generally.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that at the annual meeting of the Women's Institutes recently a resolution on the subject from Breconshire was unanimously carried? In view of such resolutions carried outside Parliament and representations which I have continually made, why cannot he has some regard to the need to reduce the charges, the size of which adds to rural depopulation?

Many resolutions are passed transferring the burden of charge from the persons passing the resolution to someone else. It would be difficult for the Post Office to meet all these charges. A survey was made of the cost of providing these lines in 1955 and it showed that the annual charges for maintenance, interest on capital and depreciation varied between £16 and £29 per mile. We charge only 10s. a furlong, which is not unreasonable.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware of the shortage of accommodation for Service families in transit through Royal Air Force, Khormaksar, Aden; and what he proposes to do in this matter.

Civil charter aircraft carrying Service families on the Far East route do not call at Aden. The few families who are brought back by Comets of Transport Command which refuel at Khormaksar will be able to use the new transit centre which we plan to build at the airfield.

When the Under-Secretary says that it is planned to build a new transit centre, is he aware that I am referring to the existing conditions? Why have they been allowed to get so bad that Service families suffer in this way?

Virtually all Service families travelling to and from the Far East travel by civil charter aircraft and do not call at Aden. The families we are talking about come mainly from Ceylon. I quite agree that the conditions at this transit centre are most unsatisfactory. We have been delayed in the building of the new transit centre by the construction of the new runway, but I hope that it will be completed by next year.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will discontinue low-level flying over Stockton-on-Tees, particularly at night time.

Aircraft landing at R.A.F. Middleton St. George must normally pass over Stockton at a height of 1,000 to 1,500 feet. I greatly regret the disturbance which this causes, but I cannot agree to stop the flying, which is a necessary part of operational training.

Is it not possible to restrict the night flying, during which these planes fly at a very low level, between one and two o'clock in the morning, when they cause considerable annoyance to my hard-working constituents? As Middleton St. George is surrounded more or less by open country, why must these aircraft pass over Stockton to approach it? There is plenty of open space over which they could fly.

Some night flying is a necessary part of the operational training programme. I will look into this matter to see whether any relaxation is possible, but we are well aware of the noise problem and pilots are briefed to avoid creating disturbance over local towns as much as possible.

My hon. Friend was not correct in stating that Middleton St. George is an open area. It happens to be in my constituency. I want the same accommodation granted to the people of Middleton St. George as my hon. Friend asks for Stockton.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will take steps to see that any future reductions in the rates of ration money for the Royal Air Force in Aden are not made retroactive.

Instructions now going out should ensure that the question of backdating does not in future arise.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for a reply which I find a little devious but which I assume to be in the affirmative, may I ask whether he will take steps to ensure that this same principle applies throughout the whole of the Royal Air Force Commands?

I think that my Answer would cover all R.A.F. Commands.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will make a statement on the recruitment of General Duties and other officers.

Recruitment to the General Duties branch has improved during the last few months but more candidates are still needed. In most of the ground branches recruitment is reasonably satisfactory. We need, however, to increase entries into the Education, Secretarial and Dental branches, and into the R.A.F. Regiment. We also need many more W.R.A.F. officers.

Is not a great deal of the shortage of aircrew recruits due to the statements made by the Minister of Defence, which were responsible for parents and schoolmasters believing that there was no longer a flying career in the Royal Air Force? What is the Air Council doing to correct this impression?

We are studying the problem the whole time and we have recently strengthened our publicity organisation. What we need more than anything else is to get over to young men who wish to fly the excellent prospects and many attractions which a Service career has to offer.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what plans he has for exchanging British ground-to-air missiles for United States air-to-air missiles for the mutual benefit of the British and United States Services.

I have nothing to add to the Answer given to the hon. Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish) by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence of 17th June.

Has it not now become apparent that the British ground-to-air missiles are far superior to those of the United States and that it is at least possible that the American air-to-air missiles are superior to ours? If interdependence is to be anything but merely a word, would not this be a good place to start the exchange of equipment?

I see the point made by the hon. Member. He should, however, know that there is a steady exchange of information between the Americans and ourselves on the development of new weapons and that this is of great benefit. Whether from the knowledge thus derived it would be advantageous for one country to adopt a particular weapon being developed by the other is for that country to decide.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he is aware that during the weekend of 19th–21st June five children were injured by a live mortar bomb which they found in a moorland stream near Locksay Bridge, Hutton le Hole; whether he will investigate the causes of this incident; and what steps he is taking to secure that the north Yorkshire moors are cleared of such missiles.

The accident occurred in the old training area on Spaunton Moor, when a child appears to have found an unexploded bomb and to have thrown it into a stream, where it hit a rock. The area had been searched for explosives by a Royal Air Force bomb disposal unit eight years ago, and the missiles which were found were then removed. We have within the last few days carried out a further search in the area of the accident. No further dangerous objects were found.

May I ask whether my hon. Friend is aware of the great concern that is felt in this well-known holiday resort about this most unfortunate accident; that some years ago an adjoining piece of moor was set on fire and a great number of these bombs were set off and exploded, and that, on the rest of the moor, shepherds are continually finding unexploded shells? In view of these facts, will my hon. Friend now order a more searching investigation to see that no bombs are left?

I am certainly very interested in what my right hon. Friend says. If he will send me full details of what has been found, I will look into the matter again and consider the position in the future. I ought to say that the search lasted a full twelve months and covered over 6,000 acres.

In how many acres of these north Yorkshire moors are there still dangerous unexploded bombs? We know that it is a fairly large acreage. Is the hon. Gentleman able to say?

I can only say that we have searched 6,000 acres. What my right hon. Friend has said about these weapons being found on other occasions is very important and, therefore, I ought to look at the matter further.