asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what representations he has had from the French authorities in the French Cameroons for the arrest and deportation of British-protected persons in the Northern and Southern Cameroons; and what action is contemplated in this regard.

None, Sir.

I am surprised but very gratified to hear that reply from the Secretary of State. I have in my hands—

The hon. Member must ask a question.

Is the Secretary of State aware that I have in my hands three cables from different parts of Africa indicating that British-protected persons are being arrested and deported to the French Cameroons and that their lives are in very grave danger?

There must have been some misunderstanding on the part of the correspondents of the hon. Gentleman, because there have been no requests for the deportation of British protected persons. It is unlikely that any would be made, since the extradition treaty does not provide for the deportation of British-protected persons. There have been requests for the repatriation of French Cameroonians believed to be taking refuge in the British Cameroons. In these cases the normal extradition procedure would apply but no French Cameroonians have been repatriated. The answer to this Question is clearly "None".

Is not the difficulty that of distinguishing between citizens of the Cameroons, to decide which people come from the French or British regions in view of the close association of these regions, and the great uncertainties about registration?

I do not think so. I think that the people who are lucky enough to be British-protected people know it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what agreement has been reached between the parties concerned in the Southern Cameroons in connection with the questions which are to form the basis of the promised plebiscite; and what representations he has had on this subject.

I regert that so far the parties have reached no agreement. I have had no representations on the subject from the Southern Cameroons but of course I discussed it with the Premier while I was in Nigeria in May.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what provision he has made against the possibility of the two political parties in the Southern Cameroons, namely the Kamerun National Congress Party and the Kamerun National Democratic Party, failing to agree on the questions to be submitted for the impending plebiscite.

Her Majesty's Government must reserve their attitude on this question until the political parties in the territory have given their final views, which they will no doubt do when the question comes before the General Assembly of the United Nations.

I thank the Secretary of State for that reply. Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it would be a mistake for the British administration to make an arbitrary decision? I take it from the Minister's reply that this matter will rest with the United Nations if a deadlock is reached on the questions to be submitted.

The ideal would be for the parties in the British Cameroons to agree. That is what we are working for and I hope that will happen. If that does not come off, Her Majesty's Government will have a point of view to express at the United Nations with whom the final decision will rest. I take this opportunity of thanking the hon. Gentleman for his very helpful and worth-while visit to the Southern Cameroons.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the desirability of the Cameroonians having an opportunity of remaining under British guidance and help so that, with greater experience, they will be able to make up their own minds about their ultimate intentions?

It is important that they should know what it is that they are being asked to decide. As I made clear in 1957, Her Majesty's Government accept that among the options should be the option to continue under the trust administration of the United Kingdom. The precise form in which the questions will be asked and what the questions will be are matters for the United Nations to settle.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the present policy of political bodies in the Southern Cameroons in respect of the future of their country; how far agreement on questions to be asked in the plebiscite has been reached; and what attitude representatives of Her Majesty's Government intend to take when the United Nations reassembles.

I understand that the present Government party, the Kamerun National Democratic Party, wishes United Kingdom trusteeship separate from Nigeria to continue for some time before a final decision is taken; and that the main opposition parties, the Kamerun National Congress and the Kamerun People's Party, favour becoming a self-governing region of Nigeria. No agreement on the questions for the plebiscite has so far been reached, and Her Majesty's Government must reserve their attitude until the General Assembly meets.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's Answer mean that the prospect of securing agreement on the terms of the plebiscite is still very remote? Can he say whether there is any time within which some decision must be reached on this matter?

I cannot force agreement on the parties, and if they do not arrive at agreement it will be for the United Nations to meet to make up its mind, and at that meeting Her Majesty's Government will express their view.

In view of the fact that my right hon. Friend has completed five successful years in office today, can he confirm that in that period he has dealt with about 6,130 Questions?

My hon. Friend has many qualities, and I trust him in everything, including his mathematics.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the future of the Shire River Development scheme in Nyasaland, with particular reference to reclamation of land for African agriculture.

As the reply is detailed I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In the meantime, can the right hon. Gentleman say what sort of scale of operation is envisaged, what will be the capital expenditure, and what the timetable is likely to be?

The Answer takes up two and a half pages of foolscap, and it would be very unwise to try to summarise it at this stage.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will state the grounds upon which the Governor of Nyasaland has prohibited the entry into the Protectorate of the periodical entitled Dissent.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond) on 28th July.

Can the hon. Member say whether there was any ground for keeping out this periodical from the Protectorate except that it had published an article from an ex-detainee about the conditions in Kanjedza detention camp?

I have nothing to add to what I said in my last reply.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will either arrange for the release of Dr. Hastings Banda from detention or permit him to travel to this country for residence until he is permitted to return to residence in Nyasaland.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if, in view of the findings of the Devlin Commission, he will release Dr. Banda from detention.

I have nothing to add to what I said on this subject in the debate on Tuesday, 28th July.

Will the right hon. Gentleman think over this matter again, in view of the fact that Dr. Banda lived here until quite recently and had lived here honourably for many years? If he cannot be released in Nyasaland, it would be only fair and gracious to allow him to come here pending alterations that may take place in future. Will the right hon. Gentleman seriously consider this matter again?

It would be unwise if I added anything to what I said during the course of a very long debate two days ago.

If Dr. Banda has to be kept away from Nyasaland, would it not be wise to bring him to London, so that the Colonial Secretary may be in a position to start the constitutional talks that will be necessary sooner or later in order that the next stages may be begun?

I am afraid that not even that sort of cunning way of trying to get me to say more than I said in the debate will prompt me to do so.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on Tuesday I asked the Prime Minister a Question similar to Question No. 14 and received a most unsatisfactory Answer from the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies? In view of the debate in another place yesterday, does not the Colonial Secretary feel that there should be further consultations with the Prime Minister about the release of Dr. Banda?

I was not able to attend the whole debate in another place yesterday, although I attended parts of it. I shall naturally read the report of the debate very carefully. But my general impression was that it confirmed the attitude taken by Her Majesty's Government in this House.

In the light of the experience of successive Colonial Secretaries, would the right hon. Gentleman care to forecast how long it will be before Dr. Banda becomes Prime Minister of Nyasaland?

Speculation is always unwise.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is yet in a position to make a statement on the West Indian citrus industry negotiations.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is now in a position to make a statement on the decisions reached as a result of the negotiations with the citrus delegation from the West Indies Federation; and what have been the reasons for the delay.

Yes, Sir. The discussions with the West Indian delegation concluded yesterday. The objective of the talks was to work out a comprehensive five-year plan for the industry; and agreement was reached with the delegation on such a plan, which will now be considered by the Governments of the West Indies and British Honduras. Agreement was also reached on the lines of a new four-year arrangement to cover the sale of concentrated orange juice for the United Kingdom welfare scheme. The talks were somewhat protracted because they had to survey the whole field of problems facing the citrus industry in the West Indies, and this involved a number of complex technical, agricultural, financial and trade questions. An agreed statement was issued at the conclusion of the talks, and with permission I will circulate the text of this in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. Is he aware of the gratitude expressed to me by members of the West Indian delegation for the help they received from the Colonial Office in these long negotiations, and also for his personal intervention despite his many other preoccupations this week, which was instrumental in converting deadlock into decision and even accord?

I thank my hon. Friend very much.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he is satisfied that the four-year period that he has mentioned will be sufficient to enable the industry to build up and meet possible competition from America and elsewhere?

It was a five-year period for research and development and a four-year period for the orange juice contract. Yes, I think it is sufficient, and that is also the view of the delegation.

I should like to associate this side of the House with the compliment that has been paid to the Colonial Secretary for getting a settlement with the West Indies delegation, but may I ask him not to hang it out so much that it creates great uncertainty, so that even now, although the delegation is satisfied, it is not absolutely confident that the future is secure?

I do not think that even eight or ten weeks is too long in which to get agreement and to settle a very complicated and important subject touching the future of the West Indies for the next five years.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the fact that the Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the disturbances in Nyasaland has revealed a state of affairs different from that which he himself had previously thought to have existed, he will now reconsider his decision not to hold an inquiry into the disturbances that took place recently in Uganda.

No, Sir.

Will the Colonial Secretary say why he will not give the people of Uganda the same opportunity as was given to the people of Nyasaland to appear before an independent tribunal to give evidence? Is he afraid that if he does so there will be as much condemnation of his administration of Uganda as was made of his administration of Nyasaland? Is he afraid, in particular, that it will refer to the police State that he has set up in Buganda?

It is certainly not a police State. The right hon. Gentleman's visit did not help to ease the situation there, but the situation in Buganda is wholly different, and I very much hope that as a result, among other things, of the statement of his Highness the Kabaka a few days ago, tranquillity will be restored to Uganda.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many sheikhs or native rulers in the Aden Protectorate have withdrawn to the Yemen during the past three years; how many have returned and how many Yemeni sheikhs or other Yemenis have been allowed to settle in the Protectorate; to what extent the road from the Yemen into the Aden Protectorate is now open to the transport of goods and passengers both ways; and what control of immigrants from the Protectorate into Aden Colony exists or is practicable.

The rulers of three minor States went to the Yemen. All three later returned to their States.

Does the hon. Member's Answer mean that far more will come from the Yemen to Aden to settle than vice versa? Can he say whether any kind of penalty was imposed on the sheikhs and native rulers who went to the Yemen and then returned? Did they maintain their former status?

With regard to the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, the answer is "Yes". The traffic has been much more from the Yemen into Aden than the other way round. As for the second part of the supplementary question, I will look into the matter and write to the hon. Member

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the ratification by the United Kingdom of the International Convention relating to the Arrest of Sea going Ships, 1952, he will, in addition to consulting the administration in Bermuda, also consult the appropriate authorities in all the other territories for which responsibility is exercised through the Colonial Office, excepting Aden Protectorate, Brunei, Gambia Protectorate, Sierra Leone Protectorate, the New Hebrides, Tonga, Uganda, and Zanzibar, in order to have the Admiralty jurisdiction contained in the Administration of Justice Act, 1956, applied to the courts of their respective territories by Orders in Council made under Section 56 of the said Act.

Yes, Sir.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Can he give any estimate as to when such consultations are likely to be concluded?

No, Sir, I do not think I can.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the ratification by the United Kingdom of the International Convention relating to the Limitation of Liability of Sea-going Ships, 1957, he will consult the appropriate authorities in all territories for which responsibility is exercised through the Colonial Office, excepting Aden Protectorate, Brunei, Gambia Protectorate, Sierra Leone Protectorate, the New Hebrides, Tonga, Uganda, and Zanzibar, in order to have the provisions of the Merchant Shipping (Liability of Ship-owners and Others) Act, 1958, applied to their respective territories by Orders in Council made under Section 11 of the said Act.

My right hon. Friend has already approached colonial Administrations on this question and is awaiting their views.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when it is now proposed to re-establish and extend democratic institutions in Malta.

I cannot add anything to my reply to the hon. Member for Bristol, Central (Mr. Awbery) on 23rd June.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, as it had been indicated that when there was quietude in the island the matter of a new and more liberal constitution would be considered, and as there have been no disturbances for six months, is it not time now that negotiations were resumed with the parties in Malta for a new and liberal constitution?

I do not think the time is yet opportune for that, though I gladly pay tribute to the fact that the situation in Malta at the present time is calm and wise.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the present method of governing the island has created a certain amount of bitterness—it may be underground bitterness, but it is still there? Could he say what steps have been taken to ascertain the wishes of the people about the future of democratic government in the island?

I do not think that would be a fair description of the attitude of the majority of the people.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to reconsider the matter, as this is one of the territories upon which we found a real bipartisan approach to the problem, though, unfortunately, it broke down? In view of the fact that this is the oldest Colony and that it has a deep association with this country, will he undertake to review the matter, so that Malta can be brought back into the main stream of our colonial development?

If the right hon. Gentleman will read the speech of the new Governor on taking office, he will see in that speech an attitude of forward-looking hope, which is also the view of Her Majesty's Government.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when it is now proposed to establish full self-government in Tanganyika.

It would be premature to estimate when this stage in the constitutional evolution will be reached.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Tanganyika African National Union won just as sweeping a victory at the last election, even including the European and Asian representatives? In view of the very constructive attitude of its leaders towards racial co-operation, is it not time that there was some reconsideration of the demand put forward by the party which was elected by an overwhelming majority of the people?

The hon. Gentleman's supplementary question altogether leaves out the fact that it was only at the beginning of this month that the first elected Ministers took office in Tanganyika. It also overlooks the fact that the Ramage Commission is now sitting, and that when it reports and the Government have had time to study it, the Governor has undertaken to make a statement.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman give some encouragement to people who have, in fact, produced just that unity for which he has asked among different races, and which he has not found in every country to the same extent as in Tanganyika?

That is quite a different question. Of course, I give encouragement to all people who approach problems in that non-racial way.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when it is now proposed to establish full self-government in British Guiana.

As the House will be aware from the reply given by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State to the hon. Member on 20th November, 1958, the Governor has appointed a Constitutional Committee to go into the whole question of the form which future constitutional development in British Guiana should take.

Is it the case that there are likely to be further discussions in September and, if so, in view of the very commendable attitude of the parties in British Guiana since the interim Constitution was introduced, will the right hon. Gentleman give encouragement now to the demand for full self-government for that territory?

If the hon. Gentleman casts his mind back only a few months, he will realise that when the Committee was set up, it was agreed that I should receive the reports of the Committee, and that I would consider them in consultation with the people who had taken part in the Committee. I have not yet received a report, but I understand from the chairman that he has decided not to submit the main report until he has received certain minority reports which some members of the Committee are preparing. The existence of minority reports shows that it is not quite so simple a matter as the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question might suggest.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has considered a letter from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents in regard to their plans for the extension of home safety lecturers and organisers; and if he will make a statement.

I regret that I am not in a position to add to the Answer which my right hon. Friend gave on 23rd July to Questions by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Dr. Johnson) and the hon. Member for Coatbridge and Airdrie (Mrs. Mann).

Is the Minister aware that the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents has undertaken a very much larger campaign in the prevention of these accidents; that it has stated quite clearly what its commitments will be, and that the present grant is totally inadequate if it is to continue its work? Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider the possibility of increasing the grant in the near future?

As the hon. Lady must realise, the position is that the Society is expected to enlist voluntary finance from outside sources, but the Home Office and the Scottish Office each advance up to £1,500 a year on their Votes on a deficiency basis, and that is the present position. No promise has been made, or can at present be given, in regard to future years.

Surely, the Minister agrees that this is a very paltry sum, despite whatever may be received from voluntary contributions, in view of the seriousness and the number of accidents occurring every year, when one considers the amount of money put into the Road Safety Campaign, which is very important, and the miserable sum put into this campaign, which is equally important?

As my right hon. Friend pointed out on a previous occasion, the Society has increased its facilities, and has appointed a second secretary in the Home Safety Department and an organiser for Scotland and the North of England.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action he is taking to require the return to this country of the managing director of a firm, particulars of which have been sent to him by the hon. Member for Dundee, East, and whose presence in this country has been requested by the senior official receiver of the London Bankruptcy Court.

My right hon. Friend cannot take steps to obtain the return of a person to this country from abroad unless a warrant has been issued for his arrest in respect of an extraditable criminal offence and he is in a country with which we have an extradition treaty. These requirements are not at present fulfilled in the case which I understand the hon. Member has in mind.

Is the Minister aware that many people in different parts of the country have lost substantial sums of money through the sharp and dishonest sales practice of this Mass Machine Vending Company, and that its managing director, Mr. Levine, has apparently fled the country rather than face the financial consequences of the disaster he has caused? Is the Minister really saying that he can do nothing to ensure that this man is brought back to this country so that justice can be done in this matter?

It depends whether or not he is in a country with which we have an extradition treaty. Most bankruptcy offences are extraditable, but, of course, a criminal proceeding would have to be started and a warrant obtained.

Can the Minister tell us what information he has received from the Board of Trade about the activities of this firm, because I understand that the Board of Trade has sent on to the Home Office the particulars which I supplied? Will he give an undertaking to communicate with my hon. Friend and myself and give us an indication of exactly what kind of investigation the Home Department has undertaken in this matter, because there are literally thousands of people who have been deprived of their life savings through the dishonesty of this man?

The Question relates to the inquiries by the senior official receiver, whereas the question of extradition can apply only when there are criminal proceedings. If either of the hon. Gentlemen have any further information they would like to give me, I should be glad to consider it.

Would the hon. and learned Gentleman consider asking for the opinion of the Director of Public Prosecutions on the matter?

I would have thought, quite candidly, that that is a question which would be more appropriately addressed to the Board of Trade, which is more closely concerned with prosecutions in a matter of this kind.

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman himself ask the Board of Trade for an opinion?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) how many local education authorities forbid the employment of children under the age of 15 years on school days;

No local education authority has prohibited altogether the employment of children under 15 on school days, and it appears doubtful whether a local education authority has power to do so; 116 authorities allow employment for not more than one hour before school.

Is the hon. Lady aware that not a single public schoolboy or independent schoolboy or a child of a Member of this House goes out selling newspapers before he starts the arduous day's work in school? Does not the Under-Secretary agree that it would be very much in the interests of equality of opportunity, for which the Home Secretary did so much in the 1944 Act, if we prevented children under 15 years of age from going out delivering newspapers before going to school?

Under Section 18 of the Act this matter is left to the local authorities. Before putting bye-laws before my right hon. Friend, they have to consider very carefully, and we have the duty to see that they have considered carefully, any objections that may have been made to their proposals. Generally speaking, I think the local authorities can be trusted to deal with this matter sensibly; and, if I may say so, I think the hon. Member is making rather a sweeping assertion when he claims that no child from the schools that he has mentioned ever undertakes a certain amount of this hourly employment.

Is my hon. Friend aware that while it may be true that no children of hon. Members do this work, many hon. Members did so when they were children and they do not seem to be any the worse for it?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how often the animals used at the Chemical Defence Experimental Establishment and the Microbiological Research Establishment at Porton are inspected under the provisions of the Cruelty to Animals Act, 1876.

An inspector under the Act has visited the Chemical Defence Experimental Establishment three times and the Microbiological Research Establishment four times so far this year.

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman say whether these inspectors are inoculated beforehand? I ask that because when hon. Members visited the Microbiological Research Establishment they were refused access to the place where the animal experiments were being conducted on the ground that they had not been inoculated beforehand?

No. This is a very interesting question, but I should require to have notice of it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the fact that experiments performed on animals under the provisions of the Cruelty to Animals Act, 1876, may be carried out only with a view to the advancement by new discovery of physiological knowledge or of knowledge which will be useful for saving or prolonging life or alleviating suffering, by what authority experiments have been, and are being, carried out at the Porton Microbiological Research Station, of a kind in which highly toxic substances are tested on animals with a view solely to assessing their lethal potentialities.

The purpose of such experiments is to advance knowledge which will be useful for saving or prolonging life and alleviating suffering in the event of the use of toxic substances in war.

Mr. Frank Allaun.

On a point of order. May I not ask a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker?

I called Mr. Frank Allaun. The hon. Gentleman was too slow.

Surely, Mr. Speaker, I proceeded to get up after my Question was answered.

Well, this is the last day. Mr. Victor Yates.

The Minister did not appear to answer the Question that I was asking him. Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State suggesting that experiments on about 100,000 animals in the past year were solely for the advancement of physiological knowledge? Is not the concern that most people are feeling based upon the belief that the animals are being used in most cases for the purpose of assessing lethal potentialities?

The object of the experiments is to discover antidotes and protective measures when toxic substances are used in war, so that life may be saved and suffering alleviated if such substances are used. It is true that a great many animals are used for such experiments, and my right hon. Friend is satisfied that they are rightly so used.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what complaints he has received about the existence and activities of an organisation, purporting to exercise censorship over postcards, details of which have been set to him by the hon. Member for Lewisham, West; what action he proposes to take; and if he will make a statement.

My hon. Friend has been good enough to draw my right hon. Friend's attention to a self-styled British Board of Postcard Censors. This body has no official standing and its certificates have no legal basis or effect.

If my hon. and learned Friend has seen some of the postcards purporting to have been approved by this body, would he not agree that they are in the main filthy rather than funny? Is it not unfortunate that they should be permitted to carry what appears to be an official stamp of approval?

Although I may well set myself up as an arbiter of taste, I cannot express an opinion on a matter of obscenity. The point that I wish to stress is that it is no part of the Government's duty to help the publishers of vulgar postcards to sail as close to the wind as possible.

Will my hon. and learned Friend at least make it clear that these stamps do not carry any immunity from prosecution?

No immunity whatsoever. Indeed, in respect of some of them bearing this particular stamp there have been successful prosecutions.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now announce detailed proposals for ensuring that there will always be an appeal available against refusal of a grant of habeas corpus.

The Government intend, when a convenient opportunity can be found, to propose that the law should be amended so as to provide for an appeal from the Divisional Court to the House of Lords in any criminal cause or matter, including not only applications for habeas corpus but also applications for the prerogative orders and cases stated by magistrates or quarter sessions, as well as convictions for criminal contempt of court. It is proposed that an appeal should lie only where the point of law involved is one of general public importance which merits consideration by the highest tribunal. The Government propose at the same time to abolish the certificate procedure under Section 1 (6) of the Criminal Appeal Act, 1907, and to provide for appeals from the Court of Criminal Appeal to be dealt with on substantially the same basis as those from the Divisional Court.

Does the Home Secretary appreciate that that announcement will be very generally welcomed? May we take it that legislation is required and will be introduced as soon as possible?

Yes, Sir. Legislation will be required and will be introduced in the next Session of Parliament.

Does my right hon. Friend's announcement mean that an appeal in those cases would be direct from the Divisional Court to the House of Lords and would not go through the Court of Appeal on the way?

I should want to examine my hon. Friend's supplementary question in detail before sending him a reply.

Is the Home Secretary aware that without committing ourselves to the approval of the exact details of what he said, we very much welcome the statement and look forward, when we on this side of the House are in office, to introducing the legislation?

I have refrained, in such matters as contempt of court, from introducing any such significance into my remarks. The fact is that whoever is the next Government will find a great deal of very useful work ready to bring in.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that four persons recently died as a result of a fire at the factory of J. F. Spears, Limited, Great Hampton Street, Hockley, and a number of people in houses adjoining this factory were in considerable danger because of inadequate means of escape; what report he has received from the Chief Fire Officer, Birmingham, concerning this fire; and if he will make a statement.

I am sure the House will join with me in expressing sympathy for the relatives of those who lost their lives in this fire. A report upon the operational aspects of the fire has been received from the chief fire officer. The report does not mention the danger to people living in nearby houses, and I understand that it is considered to be doubtful whether these people were in danger on this occasion.

Will the hon. Lady take note of the fact that a number of tenants had to be put out into the street for two hours because the passage was narrow and dangerous? Is she further aware that the housing manager of Birmingham admits that there are many premises of this nature which cause considerable danger and apprehension to many people in Birmingham, especially in view of the loss of life which has taken place? Will she look into the matter, with a view to safeguarding the lives of Birmingham people?

While appreciating the concern shown by the hon. Gentleman, I would point out to him that my right hon. Friend's responsibility is concerned with seeing that the fire brigade functions efficiently—I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree that it did—and with ensuring that it is in a position to give adequate advice about fire prevention. Fire precautions in private dwellings are a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to provide that after a stated period any person found in unlawful possession of a firearm will receive a sentence of not less than five years' imprisonment.

No, Sir. There are serious objections in principle to a minimum penalty. Courts ought to be free to fix a penalty within a specified maximum according to the circumstances of the offence and the offender. The law already provides for penalties up to a maximum of 14 years' imprisonment for possession of firearms in connection with criminal activities.

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that the present arrangements are rather one-sided, because while criminals may be in possession of firearms and the police continue to be liable to be shot at there may be understandable pressure for the police to be armed, which would not necessarily be a good thing?

I dare say that my hon. Friend appreciates that there is nothing to prevent people surrendering firearms to the police. In each of the last ten years, an average of about 1,900 firearms have been surrendered to the Metropolitan Police. It is not felt that any change in the present practice would cause criminals to surrender the firearms which some of them undoubtedly possess.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that misleading information is being given to mothers in lectures on civil defence measures to provide protection against nuclear warfare; and what steps he takes to ensure accuracy in all lectures and information relating to civil defence matters.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend does not know what particular talks the hon. Member has in mind, but anyone officially concerned with civil defence instruction and information is provided with authentic material through official channels.

Will the Minister examine reports, which I can send her, of such lectures given in schools where so-called useful hints include, "Paint your windows with a mixture of whitewash and curdled milk to prevent blast", "Soak your curtains in borax and starch to prevent fire", and "Have candles in plant pots to produce heat"? Is not the effect of such lectures to deceive ordinary people into thinking that a real protection against the bomb exists?

If the hon. Member were sufficiently interested to study the very careful investigations and experiments that have taken place and the authentic material that has been provided for these lectures—practical measures, I imagine he is thinking of the "One-in-five" lecture scheme operated by the W.V.S.—I do not think he would scoff, as his supplementary question implies, at the responsible attitude of people who are surprised how much they could do, in the unfortunate event of an emergency, to protect themselves and their families.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what facilities are open to legal advisers of persons detained in custody to obtain medical or psychiatric attention for their clients without delay on the part of the detaining authority.

An untried prisoner may for the purposes of his defence receive a visit from a registered medical practitioner, who may be a psychiatrist, selected by him or by his friends or legal advisers. A prisoner who is an appellant may be similarly visited for the purposes of his appeal. An untried prisoner with reasonable ground for desiring it, may further be visited and treated by a registered medical practitioner of his own choice if he is able and willing to defray any expense thereby incurred. Facilities for these visits are normally available on application to the prison governor.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that in many cases, particularly of a psychiatric nature, it is essential that the detaining authority should immediately notify the legal adviser in order that there should not be undue delay, since a trial could be prejudiced? Will he give an assurance that instructions are given to detaining authorities that when mental instability is suspected in detained men their legal advisers are immediately advised so that independent psychiatric advice can come to the detained individual?

I think the hon. Member has made a point which is worthy of consideration and I shall see that it is given great thought.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department upon whose authority and advice and for what periods of time a person detained while awaiting trial for murder in the Glamorgan Summer Assizes was placed in a strait jacket.

The prisoner whom I think the hon. Member has in mind was twice placed in a canvas restraint packet, once in Cardiff prison for a period of 20 hours 45 minutes and once in Bristol prison for a period of 21 hours 40 minutes. He was partially removed from the restraint during both of these periods for three intervals of approximately five minutes each. The restraint jacket was used in each case on the instructions of a medical officer.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State aware that no self-respecting mental hospital would today use a strait jacket and that it is barbaric and mediaeval that these methods should be used—as mediaeval as putting on trial a schizoid paranoiac, as occurred in this case? Would he consider whether it is possible in local prisons in Wales to be able to have access immediately to local psychiatric advice and not to depend on psychiatric advice in Bristol or Exeter so that these disgraceful mediaeval scenes should cease forthwith?

Restraint jackets are used only in those rare cases where the prisoner is so violent that he may do injury to himself or to others. The prisoner can be put in a strait jacket only on the instructions of a medical officer, and a psychiatrist can be brought in in any case in which it seems advisable to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the estimated net inward movement of immigrants into the United Kingdom from India, Pakistan and the Caribbean countries, respectively, for 1958 and for the current year to the latest available date.

I will, with permission, circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the hon. Lady state why regular and more frequent statistics dealing with immigrants are not published, as that would save putting Questions on the Order Paper when information is required? Do the figures include all entries, by air, sea and short sea routes?

The hon. Member will be aware that it is easier to obtain exact statistics of aliens than of British subjects who have free right of admission at any time to this country, but I shall look into the question he has raised to see whether it is possible to provide statistics more regularly.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is satisfied that, when members of the public send to the police the registration numbers of motor bicycles which make excessive noise on the highways, the police have adequate powers under the regulations to inspect such machines at the homes of the owners and to test the amount of noise they make; and if he will make a statement.

The police have powers, under the Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations. 1955, to test the silencer of a motor vehicle on private premises, with the agreement of the owner of the premises and of the owner of the vehicle. My right hon. Friend is informed by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis that these powers are of limited value and are seldom exercised. Apart from difficulties about access to premises, there is no satisfactory equipment which the police could use for measuring noise; excessive noise is often due to misuse of the vehicle rather than to any mechanical defect; and even if a vehicle is found to have a defective silencer no offence is committed unless it is used on the road in that condition

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that much of the mischief in this matter is caused by motor cyclists who either remove or interfere with the silencing devices which have been so carefully provided by the manufacturers and that the public would welcome any opportunity that could be found of their being able to help the police in the efforts to reduce what is becoming a very serious and unpleasant nuisance?

It is a fact that the removal of effective silencers gives rise to great nuisance. I hope that as many people as possible will bear in mind what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware of the increasing hazards to Metropolitan police officers in the execution of their duties; and if he will introduce legislation to give more generous treatment, such as is given in similar circumstances in the United States of America, to the dependants of these public servants who lose their lives while carrying out their duties.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will provide more adequate compensation for the dependants of policemen killed on duty.

The Police Pensions Regulations governing the amount of awards made to the widows of police officers who die as a result of injuries in the execution of their duty were last revised in 1953, and the basis for their assessment, which received the general approval of the House at that time, still seems to me to be sound.

Can the Minister inform us whether the amount received by the widow of the officer who was recently shot is more than she would have received if he had died a natural death? Can he say if he is satisfied that the amount which she will receive will be such as to encourage any other officer to take the necessary risks when carrying out his duty?

The first part of that supplementary question comes up on a later Question on the Order Paper, and I think I ought to answer it then. The answer to the second part of the supplementary question is that the present basis is the best that we could adopt. It was initiated by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) in 1953. The decrease in the value of money is not a ground for reconsideration, since the pension is on a rate proportionate to the husband's pay. Therefore, the basis of this present arrangement is a sound one.

May I say, as a personal explanation, that I was not responsible in 1953 but I did support the recommendation of the then Home Secretary?

Is the Home Secretary aware that despite what he has said, public opinion generally feels that we deal with these cases in a rather mean way? In view of the fact that such cases are fortunately rare, should we not be a little more generous than the present regulations provide? After all, in cases of road accidents or industrial injuries, the unfortunate victims and their dependants are treated much more generously.

I have compared the police benefits in cases of this kind with other public pension schemes, and, on the whole, I find them to be better. Of course, it is not a subject that I would leave absolutely static, but the present basis is a sound one on which to proceed.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that we should look again at this matter? The police are not comparable with any other set of people in the country. These are very brave men who have to risk, and sometimes lose, their lives. Should not we look again at the whole question of a more generous provision, when these men lose their lives, for their dependants?

As I said, this is obviously a matter which must not remain static and which needs continuous review. I entirely endorse the right hon. Gentleman's statement that these are very gallant men whom we should look after.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what compensation he proposes to pay to the widow and dependants of Detective Sergeant Purdy.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave to Questions on this subject on 23rd July last.

Can the Home Secretary tell us the actual amount of special pension in the weekly income which the widow is to receive? As the police, with the good will and support of all of us, are now engaged in an attempt to battle against crimes of violence, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it would be an encouragement to these brave men if they knew that their widows would be adequately cared for by the State?

In a previous Answer I said that the total sum was £10 10s. 8d. The combined police pension, Industrial Injuries and widow's award amounts to £7 4s. 6d., and the rest of the total award is in respect of two of the children. That is how the total to which I referred is made up.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how far it is the practice in the Metropolitan Police area for a police matron to accompany a woman prisoner in a police conveyance in which male prisoners are also being carried; and what steps are taken to ensure that the practice is observed.

The practice is for a police matron to accompany women prisoners in police conveyances on routes on which women prisoners are regularly carried: and this arrangement is being supplemented by the use of policewomen. The Commissioner is considering whether any further extension is desirable and practicable.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that there will not be a repetition of the incident in which apparently a woman on remand was taken in a black maria alone with a number of male prisoners and without any official—man or woman—present, and was submitted to a great deal of abuse and vilification? This was reported in the Press at the time and I do not think that the report has been contradicted.

Some incidents of a similar character which took place in a van between 16th April and 25th May were investigated by the Commissioner. He tells me that all the police officers concerned report that on those journeys no unseemly incidents took place. We shall naturally follow this and, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, we have taken particular care in the design of vans to see that this kind of thing does not happen.

As there were no police officers present, how do they know that no unseemly incident took place?

That is the report which I have received from the Commissioner.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why police dogs were sent recently in the Metropolitan area to the South London Press, where members of printing trade unions were engaged in peaceful picketing; and if, in view of the provocative effect, he will give instructions that police dogs should not be used in such circumstances again.

My right hon. Friend is informed by the Commissioner of Police that on the night of 25th June two dogs were taken to a cinema car park at the back of the premises of the South London Press when it was reported that the tyres of cars had been deflated. From time to time since then a dog has been used to patrol the area at night. Dogs have not at any time been used to control pickets.

Is the Minister aware that when the pickets protested to the chief inspector he did not tell them of the incidents which had occurred in another part of the premises and that he threatened to set the dogs on the pickets; that the relations with the police which had been good humoured up to that point suddenly became embittered, and that I possess signed statements to this effect; and that this is the third case I have raised with the Minister of police dogs being sent to gatherings of trade unionists?

I was certainly not aware of those facts, and I should be glad if the hon. Gentleman would be good enough to let me have details of the particular cases. I cannot accept his assertion that on this occasion the dogs were used for other than the purpose I have stated. As for the police not mentioning the purpose, it is not usual for them to tell all and sundry when they are trying to trace the commission of an offence.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether a reply has yet been received from the Town Clerk of Nottingham to the letter he caused to be sent to him on 15th July asking the Watch Committee to consider further its decision to suspend the Chief Constable and to inform the Secretary of State for the Home Department as soon as possible of the conclusion at which it arrived; and if he will make a statement.

At the request of the Nottingham Watch Committee I received the Committee and the Town Clerk, who were accompanied by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Nottingham, West (Sir T. O'Brien) and my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Nottingham, Central (Lieut-Colonel Cordeaux) on 28th July. After discussion, the Committee and I agreed that the suspension of the Chief Constable should not be allowed to continue indefinitely; and that the Committee reach an early conclusion in the matter.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply and for the very close study and attention he has given to this deplorable case, may I ask him whether he realises that great distress has been caused to the people of Nottingham as a whole; that we are intensely proud of our police force, which we believe to be second to none; and that we believe Captain Popkess to be one of the most famous policemen in England, with a nation-wide reputation? He has been our Chief Constable for 30 yeas and has been the principal architect in building up the police force there to its present proud position.

No one would disagree with the tribute that my hon. and gallant Friend has paid to the police force of the City of Nottingham which is renowned for its efficiency. We all hope that the disagreements and difficulties will be solved as soon as possible. I understand that the Watch Committee is actually meeting today and therefore I would not wish to make any further statement, nor would I wish to detract from the character of any person present or, on this occasion, to pay any particular tributes. The matter had better be left to the Watch Committee to decide.

While we agree very much with the last words of the Home Secretary's statement, is it not the case that in a matter like this in which there is genuine difference of opinion, it is a great pity to try to drag party-political issues into it?

Oh.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) to what extent there has been an increase during the past two years in the number of representations made to him criticising methods used by the Metropolitan Police;

No record is kept of the number of representations which I receive about police methods and I cannot therefore say whether there has been any recent increase I am satisfied, however, that there has been no decline in the standard of conduct of the Metropolitan Police, and I do not propose to institute any enquiry into police methods. The Commissioner of Police, in whom I have complete confidence, has shown in his Annual Report that he is fully alive, as I am, to the need for good relations between the police and the public and to the importance of taking all possible steps to maintain them.

Is the Secretary of State aware that almost exactly a year ago when Sir John Nott-Bower retired as Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Force he gave a warning in an interview on T.V. of the deteriorating relationship between the police and the public? Since then there has been a considerable increase in crime and also an increasing amount of intimidation, to which a considerable amount of publicity has been given, on the part of the police. Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in New York, for instance, where intimidation is part and parcel of the methods of the police, there have been eleven times as many murders as in London, forty times as many rapes as in London, and eleven times as many robberies as in London?

Order. With the best will in the world, I cannot allow the hon. Member to make a speech at Question Time. He has already asked the Home Secretary a number of questions.

In view of the allegations which have been made, is the Home Secretary aware that the Central Committee of the Police Federation, which represents 75,000 junior ranks, has given much consideration to this problem? It has stated that, if there are abuses, it wishes them to be removed and it will co-operate in so doing. It would welcome the opportunity of placing its views before the Home Secretary on some of the difficult matters concerned with the administration of the law of prostitution, betting and gaming, and particularly its difficulties with motorists. Has the Home Secretary received those representations? Is he willing to hear the views of the men on the beat?

Yes. I have just received a letter from the Central Committee of the Police Federation, and I am very glad to have this opportunity of saying that I shall be very glad to meet the Committee at a convenient date in the near future. The fact that it has communicated with me, not only on the subjects to which the hon. Gentleman referred, but also on the question of relations between the public and the police, is a good sign, because it shows a sense of great responsibility on behalf of the ranks of the police and a wish that we can go into these things together to do what we can to make relations between the public and the police exactly what both sides wish them to be. I hope that the hon. Member who tabled these Questions will accept that answer to his own representations as indicating the spirit which we wish to prevail.