asked the Minister of Labour how many railway workers in the north and north-east of Scotland have been dismissed, suspended, or placed on short time owing to the closing-down of branch railway lines in those areas.

None, Sir.

Does the Minister realise that the closing down of these lines cuts across the policy, or the alleged policy, of the Secretary of State for Scotland of encouraging industry in the north and north-east of Scotland? Will the right hon. Gentleman consult the Secretary of State for Scotland and the President of the Board of Trade with a view to evolving a policy which is not contradictory as between certain Ministers?

I have stated the position as far as past closures are concerned. Future proposals are, I understand, still under discussion.

asked the Minister of Labour to what extent the conclusion on page 37 of the International Labour Conference Report VII (1), prepared for the 44th session in 1960, is in conformity with the policy of Her Majesty's Government; and if he will have legislation prepared so that at the conference he will be in a position to indicate that Her Majesty's Government will at once implement a convention to guarantee a 40-hour working week.

I presume that the hon. Member is referring to the last paragraph on page 37 of the Report. The Government have followed the procedure there outlined. The Answer to the second part of the question is "No, Sir."

Does not the Minister think it would be in the best interest of Britain if international standards could be agreed to at such a conference? Would not this tend to eliminate unfair foreign competition? If the Minister agrees with that reasoning, should not concrete action be taken on these lines at this conference?

The hon. Gentleman has a Question later on the Notice Paper about the general replies we have given to this questionnaire in which we have explained our position.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the reply made to the questionnaire sent out in accordance with Article 39 of the Standing Orders of the International Labour Conference, which deals with the reduction of hours of work.

I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the Government's reply and I will also arrange for one to be put in the Library.

asked the Minister of Labour if he has studied the International Labour Organisation Report VII (1), prepared for the 44th session in 1960, with particular reference to Table I, Table III, Table IV, and Table V; what examination has been made of the International Labour Organisation Report VII; and what action it is intended to take to reduce the working week of industrial workers and miners in this country and increase their annual holiday period with improved payments.

I have studied this Report with interest, and it has been carefully examined in my Department in consultation with other Departments concerned. As the reduction of hours of work is for the two sides of a particular industry to discuss and decide, the Government do not contemplate action of the kind suggested.

In view of the growing interest in the need for a reduction in hours of work throughout the world, and particularly in our own country, has not the time arrived when the Minister and also the Ministry should take greater interest in this matter in order to give a lead to industry?

Naturally we have a great deal of interest in this matter, but I should have thought it was becoming quite evident at the moment that the two sides of industry are discussing this matter very seriously, and are, of course, in some prominent cases, reaching agreement on it.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give the percentage figures of unemployed for the Gower rural, Pontardawe rural and Llwchwr urban districts, respectively.

Figures are not available for local government districts, but I am sending the hon. Member such information as we have.

Whilst thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he appreciates that the percentage of pockets of unemployment in some of these districts is considerably higher than the national average? May I impress upon the right hon. Gentleman that he should try to encourage the Minister of State responsible for the Development Areas to induce new industries to go into these areas in order to secure these communities?

We will do our best.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will include a medical or health expert in future lists of advisers in United Kingdom delegations to International Labour Conferences.

The composition of the Government delegation to International Labour Conferences and the inclusion, where appropriate, of a medical or health expert must always be a matter for decision on each occasion in the light of the particular circumstances.

Is the Minister aware of the attention which the International Labour Organisation has been giving to occupational health services in the last few years? Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware that in this country there is specialised knowledge in the health field which would be useful at these conferences and that doctors in this country are becoming very resentful about being sidetracked on this issue in the past few months?

Representations have been received on this matter. They have in no way been sidetracked, because we have undertaken to give consideration to the suggestion, but there is a limit to the size of the delegations and to the number of advisers who can be taken with them.

Will the Minister bear in mind that, as well as passing a recommendation this year on occupational health services, the International Labour Conference asked its governing body to put the matter back on the agenda as early as possible with a view to a convention on this subject? Will he consider appointing a medical adviser on that occasion, because this is something which may affect legislation in this country?

Yes. We have undertaken to consider that point. We also have the advantage of our own medical advisers in the Department on these occasions.

asked the Minister of Labour if his attention has been drawn to the fact that a strike of clay miners in Stirlingshire has continued for more than seven weeks; and whether he will use his good offices to bring this dispute to an end.

Yes Sir. My officers have been kept fully informed of the circumstances and they offered to assist the parties shortly after the strike commenced. The offer was not accepted, but last week the union wrote to me suggesting that the dispute should now be settled by arbitration. My officers are now in touch with the parties about this.

Is the Minister aware that the cause of this strike is the refusal of the owners to recognise negotiated trade union agreements and that they have so far refused to go to arbitration? This is a "wildcat" strike, not on behalf of the employees, but on behalf of the employers.

It is not for me to offer views and opinions on a matter which at the moment is in dispute. The main thing is that my officers are in consultation with both sides to find a solution to the problem.

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of unemployed registered at the employment exchanges in the constituency of Central Ayrshire at the last convenient date, and the comparable figure for the same time last year.

One thousand four hundred and eighty three at 12th October, 1959, compared with 1,714 at 13th October, 1958.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those figures show that there were far too many unemployed in this area on both occasions? Will he be good enough to draw the attention of the President of the Board of Trade to the fact that there are a number of empty factories within the constituency and also two industrial estates, one at Irvine and one at Kilwinning, so that excellent facilities can be offered to industrialists who may want to come into an area where the labour is exceptionally good?

Yes. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is pleased that there should have been a reduction of over 300 in the last year. My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is aware of the situation and will do everything he can to encourage employers to go into the area.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that a Coventry machine-tool company, particulars of which have been given to him, which opened officially in premises costing £125,000 twelve months ago with a labour force of 250, has now dismissed all its employees; and what action he is taking to preserve the special skills of the men so dismissed from the machine-tool industry.

I am aware that the firm in question discharged its remaining forty employees at the end of last week. Of the fifteen who have registered for other employment, one has already been placed, three are being considered by other employers and my local officers hope to be able to suggest suitable vacancies to the remainder who are either semi-skilled or unskilled.

While I recognise the efforts made by the right hon. Gentleman and his Department, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he would agree that this is yet another symptom of the decline of this vitally important industry? As in the last ten years the labour force of the industry has declined by about 20 per cent., is it not appropriate that the Government should now inquire into the circumstances in which certain firms are acting as agents for the importation of machine tools from abroad, to the detriment of our own workers?

That is a much wider question and is a matter for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consult his staff and examine the Report by the Committee of Public Accounts for 1949, when this industry was investigated? Many of the difficulties now being experienced were envisaged in the Report of that Select Committee.

That, again, is a much wider question not concerned with the redundancy in this firm.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the overall reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he proposes to take to implement the recommendations of the Report of the Committee of Inquiry on Anthrax; and to what extent this will involve legislation.

This Report, which was published on 11th November, is comprehensive and valuable and my right hon. Friend and I would like to take the opportunity of thanking the Chairman and members of the Committee of Inquiry for their work. The recommendations are now being studied. Several require changes in the law, the nature of which is indicated in the summary of recommendations at the end of the Report.

How long is it likely to be before the hon. Gentleman will have considered the Report fully? In view of the serious nature of the disease, will he ensure that legislation on the recommendations is introduced as speedily as possible?

The Report came out only on 11th November. It contains twenty-eight recommendations and more than half of them recommend changes in the law. As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, it is important that there should be consultation with other Government Departments and with all the outside interests concerned, but I ca n assure him that the consultations will be undertaken as speedily as possible.

While appreciating what the hon. Gentleman has said about the complexity of the problem, may I ask whether early action can be taken on the recommendations in paragraph 242 and the following paragraphs about arrangements being made for better washing facilities on the docks and so on? That would be relatively simple. Will he see if he can take early action on those matters while the more complicated subjects are being considered?

I will certainly look into that matter. I am sorry that I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a firm reply at the moment.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will make a statement, and publish any available statistics, regarding the period of notice given by employers, including nationalised corporations, before discharging workers of various categories who become redundant, or are found unsuitable.

I regret that comprehensive information is not available.

asked the Minister of Labour what arrangements he has with other Departments to ensure that his local officers receive the earliest possible notice of forthcoming redundancies, and are granted special facilities for placing those involved in alternative employment.

The local managements of Government industrial establishments inform my local officers of the numbers and qualifications of workers selected for discharge as soon as these are known and at the same time as the workpeople's representatives are informed. My local officers then attend the establishments to register those concerned for other employment, except in cases where the workers concerned come from a distance and prefer to register for local work at an employment exchange nearer their home.

Will the Minister check whether that procedure is working satisfactorily? Is he aware that it seems to work in the case of large-scale redundancy, particularly in the case of the great Royal Ordnance factories, but that in the case of smaller establishments, especially where they are run by the Service Departments, there does not seem to be satisfactory co-ordination with the local employment exchanges?

I will certainly look at the way the machinery is working. If the hon. Gentleman will let me have details of specific instances, I will gladly look into them.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware of the difficulty being experienced by shipbuilders in obtaining new orders to replace contracts now being completed; and whether he will discuss with the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the possibility of accelerating the naval shipbuilding programme.

I am aware of the difficulties and I am keeping in touch with my hon. Friend the Civil Lord and my other colleagues on the subject.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that encouraging reply, may I ask him to bear in mind, first, that very rightly the Government are doing something about redundancy in the mines and finding money for the enormous coal stocks? Secondly, will he bear in mind the amount of money being spent in Scotland and Wales? Will he remember that the shipyard industry on the North-East Coast needs some help as well?

Yes. I quite understand that position and I hope to go to the North-East Coast for the last two days of next week to see the position for myself.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will exempt from call-up for National Service married men with dependent children.

There is no power under the National Service Acts to exempt any man from National Service; but men can apply to have their call-up postponed on the ground that exceptional hardship would be caused, and my officers have special instructions to consider with the fullest sympathy applications from married men with families where there are difficult home circumstances.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all this still leaves the position most uncertain? Is he also aware that there are still about 470,000 men liable for call-up, many of whom will never in fact be called up? When does he intend to make up his mind to start tapering it off and putting many thousands of these men out of suspense?

It would not be practical to find a device for excluding all married men with dependent children, because there is no such power under the Act. The machinery for dealing with the problem is long established and is working well. On 12th May my predecessor sent a further instruction to those concerned asking that this problem should be dealt with very sympathetically.

But cannot the Minister bring some termination to this indefinite postponement, which leaves a lot of apprehension in the minds of the chaps who get it? They do not know whether or not it is indefinite. As it is apparently meant to be indefinite, why not make it quite plain?

I think that the right hon. Gentleman has misunderstood the position. When indefinite deferment is granted, it is specifically stated and, as the right hon. Gentleman probably knows, is largely limited to particular industries. Where postponement is granted, it is for a fixed period, and at the end of that period, whether the circumstances remain the same or have in any way changed, it is again open to the man to apply for a further period of postponement.

Can the Minister of Labour say whether he really wants these people at this time? With Regular recruiting going as it is and our commitments falling, would not it be better to say that he will end the call-up earlier or free these men from liability?

When the decision was made, and announced in the White Paper, that those born after the third quarter of 1939 would not be called up, it was recognised that a certain number of those who were deferred would be available for call-up in the period before call-up ended. It was roughly worked out that those numbers would give the Forces what they required. The number that the Forces require is under consideration for this remaining period, and we shall be able to see whether there are any men who will not be required, but it is very difficult to deal in advance with any specific categories.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty when it is expected that H.M.S. "Dreadnought" will be launched; and when she will be commissioned.

It is not the practice to disclose the dates of launching or commissioning of Her Majesty's ships before they have been firmly settled.

Will my hon. Friend the Civil Lord bear in mind the desirability of giving adequate notice of this important event?

As this will be the first British ship of this revolutionary type, and many very great engineering problems are involved, it would be unwise to forecast at this stage, but my noble Friend and myself will certainly try to give advance warning of this important date.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty when a sister ship to H.M.S. "Dreadnought" will be laid down; and when it is proposed to start the construction of a missile-carrying submarine.

In an effort to give the House and the country a greater amount of information, we have recently announced when the keels of some new surface ships have been laid down. I think it would he most unwise to go any further in announcing future plans. However, I can say that work is proceeding at Dounreay on nuclear submarine prototype machinery.

As my hon. Friend has already pointed out the importance of this new type of vessel, would not he agree that, in order to gain adequate operational experience, a sister ship should be laid down as soon as possible? Would not he also agree that the misslecarrying submarine may be the best method in future of delivering the deterrent?

I would not like to answer off the cuff the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, which is a matter of very great strategic consequence—and economic consequence as well. But I would certainly agree with the first part of his supplementary question, and we are giving the matter most careful consideration.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty whether he will make a statement about the provision of British n clear-propulsion units for Her Majesty's ships.

I have already referred to the nuclear submarine proto- type machinery that is being constructed at Dounreay. The possible applications of nuclear propulsion to surface warships are being studied at the present time.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the second nuclear submarine, when laid down, will have a British nuclear-propulsion unit? Will he also bear in mind that, as the prototype nuclear-propelled surface ship is likely to be highly uneconomic either to build or operate, it might well be advisable to have it under the White Ensign?

The first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is rather hypothetical: if it is laid down, will it have British machinery? I do not think that I can add very much to what I said about our Dounreay prototype, except that it is of British construction, although it uses a pressurised water system that is similar to the American type of propulsion unit. The second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is a matter for more mature and careful consideration, and will concern my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport.

Can the Civil Lord tell the House what has happened to the Committee, of which the Civil Lord was chairman, that was set up to look into this question of nuclear propulsion for ships? Is that Committee still under the Admiralty, or has it disappeared into some other Ministry?

That Committee would become the responsibility of the Ministry of Transport, but I imagine that we shall continue to have a very close interest in it.

But is the Committee still under the Admiralty, or what is happening to it at present?

No, it is under the Minister of Transport.

In view of the real importance of this matter, is my hon. Friend satisfied with the arrangements, under the new dispensation, between himself and the Minister of Transport, and could he arrange for some fuller information to be given to the House at a fairly early date as to the progress being made?

We have a very close and abiding interest in the propulsion of a warship. Perhaps I could add to what I said earlier. There is a study contract already placed with the Yarrow—Admiralty Research Department, and this is going ahead with our full support. I could not give an answer to the other part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question without consideration and deliberation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the fact that everybody has asked the question that is to be answered tomorrow by the Minister of Transport in reply to a Question put by me that I tried to have put down to the Prime Minister, could I ask whether everybody will be in attendance tomorrow to hear the full facts?

No.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty on what date the motor transport depôt at Clayton, Newcastle-under-Lyme, was closed; how many workers were made redundant in consequence; and what efforts were made by his Department to find them alternative employment.

Clayton Motor Transport Depôt closed on 23rd October. Of the 75 staff employed in April, 19 have been transferred to other work in Admiralty or Government service, 7 have retired or resigned and 49 were discharged. The names of these 49 have been registered in advance at the employment exchange, with the result that 46 have already found other jobs.

It is satisfactory that that is so, but is the Civil Lord aware that many of the workers discharged are greatly dissatisfied about the procedure that was adopted; in the first place, because no real attempt seems to have been made by his Department to find them alternative employment and, secondly, because it is said that no facilities were given to employment exchange officers to go to this depôt to assist them in finding alternative jobs?

In answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, we had an obligation to the established staff which we carried out as meticulously as we could. On the non-established side, we notified their names to the local employment exchanges, and the very fact that 46 out of the 49—and of the other three, one retired because she was already 67 years old—were placed, does bear out that we took considerable trouble to see that they got a continuation of employment.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how many scholarships were available at Dartmouth this year; and how many candidates were unsuccessful.

Ninety-six scholarships were available this year for eventual entry to Dartmouth. Six hundred and ninety-six candidates were unsuccessful.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what qualifications other than those of a high recommendation by the interview board are required of candidates for reserve cadetships; and to what extent the number of such cadetships is limited.

Reserved cadetships are awarded to candidates who enter for the scholarship competition but just miss scholarships. Apart from passing at interview, candidates must have, therefore, approximately the same academic standard as boys awarded scholarships.

Why is it not possible simply to take the next in the list of those who failed for scholarships, which would be the normal thing to do? Why has there to be a special interview to select people, whom the Commission may or may not like, regardless of whether they are highest in the list?

I think that everybody would agree that the Admiralty Interview Board is right in bearing in mind not only academic standards, but the other standards—[HON. MEMBERS: "What are they?"] Standards of character—

Accent.

Since this question of accent has been taken up, perhaps I could put it right for the record. I quoted a letter from a Labour-dominated council—St. Helen's—which had the same fears on this issue. I was quoting that council's views. But at the Admiralty we do not take accent into account. We take into account the academic ability of the young person, but we also keep in mind the quality of the chap. An hon. Member from the opposite side of the House has recently been to see the Admiralty Interview Board at work and has told me that his anxieties have been set at rest, so I do not think that the anxieties that were shouted at me would really bear close examination. We are anxious to have the best chaps, wherever they may come from.

Is the Civil Lord aware that when I went to an interview board I personally was satisfied with the way in which it was conducted? I am not trying to make a personal attack on the interview board, but may I ask why it is not possible to have the same system for these particular special entries, or whatever they are called, as for scholarships? If there is an interview for a scholarship, why should not the result of that interview, together with the result of the academic test, be taken into account?

I apologise for getting drawn aside from the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question by a wave of applause or disagreement from the benches opposite. I will consider the point which the right hon. Gentleman has made and I will write w him in explanation as to whether we take the exact academic list, following on down, for these reserved cadetships.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the present state of the figures for re-engagement in the Royal Navy; and how these compare with those of previous years.

Re-engagement for pension in the Royal Navy had risen steadily from 36 per cent. five years ago to 64 per cent. so far this year. This is the highest level since 1936 when the percentage re-engaging was 69 per cent.

While congratulating my hon. Friend on these really excellent figures, may I ask him to bear in mind that the long-term good of the Service requires that a success such as this on the lower deck be matched by corresponding success in relation to the entry of the young officer?

We are very well aware of the need on the officer recruiting side, and I hope that the reserved cadetships and other institutions will help in that recruiting.

Did I understand the Civil Lord to say, "re-engagement for pension"? Was not that a slip of the tongue and did he not mean "re-engagement for the honour and pleasure of serving in the Royal Navy?"

I stand corrected.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty when it is proposed to commence the provision of new permanent living accommodation for the artificer apprentices at Rosyth.

We plan to provide new living accommodation for the artificer apprentices in H.M.S. "Caledonia" as soon as the necessary funds are available. I hope to include the first half of the project, which will cost £225,000, in the 1961–62 works programme and the rest later on.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we have been told a number of times in the past that we would get this accommodation when the money was available? Could not he really make an effort to see that this work is commenced during the next financial year?

I am afraid that this is a question of priorities. We are anxious to try to renew all the old accommodation as quickly as we can, but there are many demands on the programme. There is not only living accommodation. There is also instructional accommodation and much else which has to take its place. But we are sympathetic to the need to hurry on with this programme.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what steps were taken to remove mines from the Firth of Clyde after the last naval manœuvres; and if he will in future consider taking steps to prevent mines damaging the nets of fishermen.

No steps are taken to remove practice mines from the sea bed in exercise areas, but every effort is made to clear the areas of any mines remaining on the surface or so near to it as to endanger navigation; these practice mines are dummy mines and are not in themselves dangerous.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that a fisherman whose nets are torn and damaged—and they are very expensive—has a genuine grievance against the Admiralty? Will he sympathetically consider any claims for compensation that are sent to him?

In reply to the first part of the supplementary question, we give notice through the liaison officers at the principal Scottish ports in order to try to avoid areas where trawling may take place. If the hon. Gentleman has in mind a specific case, perhaps he will send me details and I will certainly consider them.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the cost of the aircraft carrier H.M.S. "Hermes"; and the estimated weekly cost of running it.

The cost of H.M.S. "Hermes" is approximately £18 million.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that this is an extraordinary sum to be paid for this expensive and obsolete monstrosity? This is the cost of a town. Has he nobody at the Admiralty capable of giving an approximate estimate of what this thing costs per week, apart from the cost of the oil?

I cannot agree with the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. I agree that this is expensive, but Britain must stand up for her interests in all parts of the world. As to the second part of the supplementary question, the cost is so obscure. For instance, do we take into account the cost of training all the personnel? Do we consider the cost of married quarters, pensions and so on? It is a difficult sum to calculate. I have given the House the best information I can.

Does the Civil Lord agree that this vessel is well worth the cost, having regard to the fact that it was built by the finest craftsmen in the world, namely, those in Barrow-in-Furness?

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty the cost of the various aircraft that are to be operated from the aircraft carrier H.M.S. "Hermes".

The aircraft to be operated from H.M.S. "Hermes" will naturally vary from time to time, but their initial capital cost will be of the order of £10 million.

Even though this vessel was built at Barrow-in-Furness, does not the Civil Lord think that this is a very large item of national expenditure? Does he really think that these aircraft carriers are worth while in this nuclear age and in the age of rockets?

The hon. Gentleman should bear in mind that it is not only global war which may come, but there may be limited wars, and the cold war still continues. These vessels play a very worth-while part in these types of war.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how many naval personnel have been charged with civil offences in South African courts; and what sentences were imposed

Over the past two years ten naval ratings have been charged in South African courts for civil offences; of this total, two cases were withdrawn and one man was acquitted. The maximum sentence imposed was six months imprisonment with compulsory labour and six strokes of the cane.

What representations has the hon. Gentleman made to the Government of South Africa with regard to the sentence of whipping imposed on a naval rating? Will he look into the application or possible extension of the Visiting Forces Act to the Union of South Africa and stop this kind of sentence being passed? May ask what instructions are given to officers and men of the Royal Navy visiting foreign ports about the peculiarities or ridiculous aspects of legislation in that country?

My responsibility is to see that strict measures are taken to ensure that naval personnel, before they go ashore, are thoroughly warned on the current laws of South Africa, and I have assured myself that that is done very thoroughly. To put the matter in perspective, I would ask the hon. Gentleman to bear in mind that, even taking last year only, about 3,000 naval personnel went ashore, so this is a very small percentage of that number.

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty whether he will accelerate the naval building programme to assist in maintaining work in the shipyards.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport has already stated that he intends to study in detail the problems of the shipbuilding industry. In so far as these could be relieved by an acceleration of naval building, such a measure will naturally come under careful review.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that shipyard workers and shipbuilders do not want to lose the skills that they lost in the 1930's when naval shipbuilding was brought to an end? Will my hon. Friend let me know when he would like me to accompany him to the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

All I would say is that 90 per cent. of naval ships are built in commercial yards and that is a very considerable proportion of the load which they are carrying.

Will my hon. Friend undertake to increase the publicity which already exists for the naval building programme? Is he aware that the United States Navy has not the slightest compunction in advertising to the world its naval building programme and the tour of duty of the units of the fleet? Yet the British Navy is not publicity-conscious. Is he also aware that I am convinced that this House would support a comparatively large extra sum on the Estimates—£100,000 or something of that kind—to publicise the doings of the Royal Navy at the present time?

I know that my noble Friend the First Lord is aware of this point, as I am aware of it. The last First Lord gave details in the Naval Memorandum last year—far more thorough details than there have been in recent years. I will certainly bear the point in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for War what decision has been reached with regard to Eaton Hall, near Chester, in view of the long period his Department have not been able to find a use for the mansion.

I am afraid that I cannot yet make a statement, but I shall seek an opportunity of doing so as soon as a decision has been reached.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be a little forthcoming about this, in view of the long time that this place has not been used and the mounting costs for dry rot? Will he explain why it has taken so long to come to a decision?

I must tell the hon. Gentleman that this is a matter which is exercising my mind very much and it has done so for a number of months now. This house was taken on a 99-year lease in 1947 at a time when the Army was very much larger than it is now. What we have to decide, now that we have no need for it as an O.C.T.U., is whether we are to alter the terms of the lease and put another unit in or whether we should endeavour to reach agreement with the estate to abandon the lease. Both of these courses involve very considerable expenditure. I am aware that it costs a considerable amount to keep and maintain the buildings while they are empty, but it is nothing compared with what the eventual decision will cost one way or the other. I am anxious that we should take the right decision. I am afraid that I must ask for a little more time before reaching a decision.

Has the right hon. Gentleman ever considered consulting the Minister of Education? There are many people who think that this building would make an admirable teacher training college, and, as such facilities are needed, will he consult his right hon. Friend to see whether it could be used for that purpose?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I have not been backward in consulting my colleagues about the future use of this place.

asked the Secretary of State for War how much has been realised from the sale of 1,250,000 surplus boots; and how this compares with the cost of purchase.

The sale of these boots is not yet complete.

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why? Is it a fact that these boots, which cost nearly £2 a pair, have been on sale at from 8s. 6d. to 10s. a pair? Is not he well aware that there are plenty of buyers to take them at that rate? Why has it taken so long? Can he deny that this blunder arose because, in 1955 and 1956, the War Office insisted on ordering these boots when the provisioning depôt said that they were not required? Is not the secret of the whole thing that somebody had the brainwave that, if these boots were not made, the Ministry of Supply would show a loss on the special leather it held if the leather had to be sold?

I will endeavour to answer those questions briefly. As I told the hon. Gentleman when he asked me a Question some months ago, the boots were handed over by the War Office to the Ministry of Supply for sale, and that handing over was completed some months back now. The Ministry of Supply thought it right not to put all these boots on the market at the same time—the hon. and learned Members for Northampton (Mr. Paget) will know the reason for that—but to market them in such a way as to attract the best price over a period of time. Now the moment has arrived when the Ministry of Supply is no longer responsible, for it does not exist any longer, and I am myself responsible for the sale of these boots. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that there is another lot to go out for tender in a few weeks' time.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, however much these boots may be passed, Northampton is extremely concerned about his activities in running a cut-price shop?

That is not strictly true. As the hon. and learned Gentleman knows, we are sending these boots for export.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is satisfied that his present statutory powers of imposing discipline on officers and other ranks in the Army are adequate; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. I would refer the right hon. Member to the debate on the Army Act which took place on 12th November.

I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Can he say whether, since his power to impose discipline is derived from the Army Act, he requires any additional assistance in order to impose discipline on officers and other ranks in the Army, and whether the declaration made by the Minister of Defence recently, that he must vet any lectures delivered by Army officers, was in accordance with the Army Act?

That has nothing whatever to do with discipline. Where discipline is concerned, it is incumbent upon an officer, if he proposes to make a public statement of the character which the hon. Gentleman has in mind, to submit that public statement to the War Office. I am responsible for passing it or not passing it. Where the matter touches inter-Departmental arrangements, naturally, if a speech which an officer wished to make touched, for instance, on colonial affairs or foreign affairs, I—it would be my responsibility, not the responsibility of the officer—would check, from the point of view of purely administrative and Governmental arrangements, with the Colonial Office or the Foreign Office on whether the content of the speech was suitable. Similarly, now, when it comes to making speeches on broad defence policy, I shall refer them to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence who is, of course, responsible for the overall defence policy of the Government.

While that may he so, if a high-ranking officer makes a speech on a matter of defence which is of a global character, no doubt the Minister of Defence might wish to butt in, but where the subject of discipline arises, namely, in connection with an act by a high-ranking officer, are we to understand that the exclusive right for imposing discipline is vested in the right hon. Gentleman and in no other Member of the Government?

Yes, Sir, that is so.

Has my right hon. Friend considered applying to the Army the new disciplinary code as laid down by the Labour Party?

In view of the fact that General Cowley recently made a statement which, we understand, was vetted by the right hon. Gentleman's Department and approved, yet the Minister of Defence deprecated that, may we have some indication of the co-ordination between the Minister of Defence and the Secretary of State for War?

I went into this in more detail in the debate on the Army Act a week or so ago, when I explained my reasons for passing the speech which was submitted to me by General Cowley.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Are you aware that the Secretary of State is not informing the House correctly about what happened on the Army Estimates debate the other day? Your Deputy in the Chair did—

It was not on the Army Estimates. The debate referred to, I suppose, is the debate on the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill.

Further to that point of order. With very great respect—

I do not think that the right hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Bellenger) has finished. I was trying to get back to the substance of it.

I was merely trying to call your attention, Sir, to the fact that it was not correct to say that we were permitted to debate it.

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. In effect, the Secretary of State has said that he explained the details of this in question and answer in a certain debate recently. In fact, that is not so, and we are very much concerned about the fact that the right hon. Gentleman approved a speech which was later disapproved by the Minister of Defence. What I think we have a right to ask, and what my right hon. Friend was trying to ask, is whether or not there is any co-ordination, and who, at the end of the day, decides who is to say what?

There is some difficulty about asking that in relation to this Question. It does not arise out of it.

asked the Secretary of State for War if he is satisfied that the standard small arms ammunition within the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation will be satisfactory for the new British automatic rifle; and if he will make a statement.

The British rifle is designed to fire N.A.T.O. standard ammunition.

If that is so, is the new German rifle which, we hear, the German Army has chosen instead of the F.N. rifle, also to fire N.A.T.O. ammunition, or are all these elaborate efforts at co-ordination going to break down?

I understand that the German round is smaller than the standard N.A.T.O. round. It is not, of course, for me to comment on what prompted the German Army to choose it.

This is a serious matter, and it would seem to indicate that all the efforts which delayed the introduction of the rifle to the British Army for about ten years have come to nothing. Standardisation of the ammunition is the key point. It does not matter whether the rifles are different. It is a most serious matter if we are now told that the ammunition is different.

There is a broad measure of standardisation of weapons and ammunition within N.A.T.O., but I cannot answer for what the Germans may do.

Is the right hon. Gentleman telling us that the measure of standardisation is so broad that the ammunition will not fit different rifles?

asked the Secretary of State for War how, and to whom, he will make known the Army's requirements for radar and electronic equipment; how these requirements will be co-ordinated with those of the other Services; and how they will be met.

The arrangements will be as in the past except that the Ministry of Aviation will take the place of the Ministry of Supply.

This means that nothing has been done, so far as we can see, in these rearrangements except to make the Service equipment even more cumbrous than it was before. As far as we can see, this means that the matter must now go through the Ministry of Defence to the Ministry of Aviation and that there will be two intermediaries between the War Office. How the other Services will co-ordinate their demands for radar I simply do not know.

The situation with regard to radar and electronic equipment is exactly as it was before vis-à-vis the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Aviation, except that it is the Ministry of Aviation instead of the Ministry of Supply.

asked the Secretary of State for War what steps have been, and are being, taken to provide adequate permanent accommodation for Army personnel in Aden.

Sixteen new barrack huts are nearly complete. They will provide air-conditioned sleeping accommodation for 640 men. A second contract has recently been placed for 240 married quarters and air-conditioned barracks for an infantry battalion. The first block should be ready in ten months and the rest by the summer of 1961. A third contract will be let in the spring to provide messes and offices. Those are the principal measures. We are also putting up camps with air-conditioned sleeping quarters for a number of troops who would otherwise be under canvas or in overcrowded huts. Any further building will depend on the size of the permanent garrison of Aden.

How many of our personnel are in Aden? We have heard that 640 men will have air-conditioned accommodation.

This is related to a Question which the hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) asked me last week about the number at present living in tented accommodation in Aden. The Answer was about 700.

My right hon. Friend did not say in his Answer whether married quarters are to be air-conditioned. I should like to know whether they are. If not, will it not be very hot for married couples in Aden?

There will be a measure of air conditioning in married quarters.

asked the Postmaster-General when he expects the new telephone exchange at Willenhall will be completed; and when it will become operational.

The new building should be completed by October. 1960, and I expect the exchange to be operational towards the end of 1961.

While appreciating that reply, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that the bad service, particularly during peak hours, has been a severe handicap to industrial concerns in Willenhall? Will the right hon. Gentleman expedite the completion of this exchange?

I am aware that the service in Willenhall is not all that it should be, but the present exchange caters, I think, for about 1,300 subscribers. The new exchange will cater for about 1,800, and we shall have it on subscriber trunk dialling by 1964 at the latest.

asked the Postmaster-General when the Commonwealth round-the-world coaxial telephone cable will be laid.

The first stage will be the completion in 1961 of the link between Canada and the United Kingdom. A conference, recently concluded in Sydney, has recommended that the net stage should be the completion by 1964 of a cable linking Canada, New Zealand and Australia. The Government of the United Kingdom expect to reach early conclusions on this proposal, and I am confident that the other Commonwealth Governments will also reach decisions soon. I cannot yet forecast a timetable for further links.

asked the Postmaster-General how many telephone subscribers there are in Acton; and the number of applicants waiting for telephone service.

There are 9,400 telephone subscribers in Acton and 130 applicants waiting. These figures are estimates, because Acton is served by four telephone exchanges. Over 600 telephones have been provided during the past twelve months.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him to state the average waiting time for telephones in the area?

The average waiting time is between two and three months, but we hope in January next year to put down a new cable, which should help substantially.

asked the Postmaster-General the function of the Conference of European Postal and Telecommunications Administrations; and what part his Department will play in the Conference.

The Conference of European Postal and Telecommunications Administrations was set up following a meeting in Montreux in June, 1959. The Arrangement was signed by the Administrations of nineteen countries including the United Kingdom. The new Conference is essentially consultative. It aims to exchange views and information and to initiate studies of technical problems of particular concern to Europe. It will concentrate mainly on work of a practical nature to improve the efficiency of the European postal and telecommunications services. My Department has taken, and will continue to take, its full part in the work of the Conference.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that Answer. May I ask him whether he will take up at the Conference the question of the different times it takes for letters to go from one country to another in Europe, because these times vary considerably? Will he see whether he can get more uniformity among European postal services?

That is a matter which might be studied.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether any of the so-called Iron Curtain countries are now inside the Conference?

I believe not.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the future of the telegraph service.

In its Report of last year, the Advisory Committee, under Sir Leonard Sinclair's Chairmanship, endorsed the continuance of a nation-wide inland telegraph service. The Committee regarded it as an essential, though shrinking, part of our communication facilities, while recognising that a substantial deficit was unavoidable. A Joint Departmental Committee is now considering how the service can be made to operate more efficiently and more economically in the light of the Advisory Committee's Report. No change in the telegraph tariff is at present contemplated.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will use his powers under subsection (4) of section 15 of the Licence and Agreement and subsection (2) of Section 9 of the Television Act, 1954, to require the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television Authority to refrain from broadcasting "Cool for Cats" and other similar record boosting programmes, in view of the discrimination which is taking place.

No, Sir. The hon. Member should send any evidence he has to the B.B.C. or I.T.A. if he is suggesting that there is any irregular discrimination in selection and playing of records for broadcasting by performers or staff employed by the B.B.C. or I.T.A. programme contractors. These are matters for the broadcasting organisations who have assured me that they will receive most careful attention.

I am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, but I think that I have a case for examination under the subsections of the Act which I mentioned in my Question, and I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will later consider the matter. First, is he aware that disc jockeys are, in many instances, responsible for the selection of their records and are employed by recording companies, such as Pye, Decca and E.M.I., and as employees of those companies are subject to pressure? This in itself may lead to undesirable practices. Further, is he aware that there is an American company called Aberbach, with subsidiary companies in this country, three of which have recording managers as partners? One of these partners, in particular, is a television producer. This in itself is an undesirable association. Will the right hon. Gentleman consider looking into the matter?

The practices within the gramophone record industry are not a matter for the Postmaster-General, but the powers to which the hon. Member has referred have always been treated by successive Governments as reserve powers. I very much doubt whether the House would wish me to use those Dowers in order to prohibit certain types of programme. Both the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. have told me that they have no reason whatever to suppose that there is any substance in the alleged irregularities, but, as I say, they will gladly consider any evidence submitted to them.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that within the B.B.C. there are ample means for putting this matter right if there is abuse, regardless of the rights or wrongs of my hon. Friend's case? Also, is he aware that, in spite of what fuddy-duddies in this House may think, these programmes are extremely popular with teen-agers?

I think that what the hon. Gentleman says was implicit in my reply. In answer to the second part of his supplementary question, I entirely agree that television has to cater for the taste of those who are young in spirit as well as the taste of those who have lost their youthful aspirations.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that these serious allegations which were contained in the Press at the weekend are matters which should cause some concern, particularly in the realm of commercial television? Is he aware that this is a very artificial world; and, in looking at the little fish, will the right hon. Gentleman also look at the bigger ones, the programme contractors who buy publishing firms and use producers to boost their own products? While the I.T.A. and the B.B.C. have to cater for young people, will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that young people are not exploited in the interests of commercial organisations?

Of course, if these allegations were proved to have substance, I entirely agree that it would indeed be a serious matter. But the truth is that neither I nor the authorities know what the allegations are.