asked the Minister of Aviation if, in the interest of air safety, he will give a general direction to British European Airways to include a flight engineer amongst the crew of all their jet aeroplanes.

No, Sir. The only jet aeroplane in the British European Airways fleet is the Comet IVB; the Certificate of Airworthiness for this aircraft provides that the crew to operate it should consist of either three pilots or two pilots and one flight engineer. I see no reason for me to seek to influence the Corporation's choice.

Is it not the case that this decision has been very strongly opposed by the flying staff section of the International Transport Workers Federation and also by the British Merchant Navy and Air Line Officers Association? Is it not also the case that B.O.A.C. includes a flight engineer, and can the Minister give an assurance that these planes will be safe with this reduced staff?

I must be guided by the views of the Air Registration Board. It has left the alternative to the airlines of having either three pilots or two pilots and one flight engineer. The fact that other airlines have chosen the alternative does not seem to me to suggest that B.E.A. is necessarily wrong.

asked the Minister of Aviation what representations he has received regarding the future of the Vickers Armstrong's factory near Swindon; what steps he is taking to ensure that there will be continuity of employment at this factory and that it will revert to its proper function of producing aircraft; and if he will make a statement.

Apart from a note from the hon. Member, containing an extract from a statement by a shop stewards Committee, my right hon. Friend has as yet received no representations on this subject. The use to which this factory will be put when the current order for naval aircraft is completed is a matter for the management to decide.

Yes, Sir, but is the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friend the Minister aware that, in fact, there is very great anxiety both among the men engaged on this work and also on the part of the management that this factory is now turning over from aircraft production to other jobs, that there is the danger of skilled teams of trained technicians being broken up and lost, as is happening elsewhere, and also great anxiety that if more Vanguards are not sold quickly the firm will not break even on them, and there is a danger of the VC10 missing the market? Can I have an assurance that the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friend will be looking very carefully at the position?

We are not here concerned with the production of the VC10. As to the other general observations which the hon. Gentleman has made, I am bound to say, of course, that the allocation of work by a firm to its particular factories is a matter for the firm. We have no reason to expect any redundancy here.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether firm arrangements have now been made between his Department and the Fairey Aviation Company to develop the Rotodyne aircraft.

asked the Minister of Aviation what further developments have taken place between his Department and the Fairey Aviation Company to develop the Rotodyne aircraft.

Last August the Government decided to contribute to the cost of developing a Tyne engined version of the Rotodyne to meet the requirements of B.E.A. and the Services, on terms which were agreed with the firm, subject to negotiation of a detailed contract. The terms included an undertaking by the Government to reimburse the company for the whole of its subsequent development costs should a specified minimum production order not be placed. A contract embodying this arrangement was recently sent to the firm for its signature. However, it has informed me in a letter (which I received this morning) that it is no longer prepared to proceed on the terms envisaged last August, and that it wants additional Government financial assistance, to an extent which it has not yet specified. I have asked my Department to discuss this unsatisfactory position with the firm forthwith.

Would not the Minister agree that this is a very unfortunate position, because this aircraft, which is of very novel design, has been hanging about for a long period of time, some men have already been dispersed or dismissed, and there is a real danger, I understand, that the production team in the factory may not be able to be kept there much longer if some finality cannot be reached? I am sure the Minister will agree that the matter needs urgent attention now?

I explained in my answer that I thought we had settled this matter with the firm last August when we decided to support the Tyne-engined version, although we still had not a firm order from B.E.A. I do not know what has been going wrong now, but we shall look into it right away.

In view of the importance of this development from the national point of view, if the firm is unreasonable in its attitude and refuses to play, will the Minister consider the most drastic action, if necessary invoking war-time action and taking this firm over?

I do not think it is a very strong firm, but I would not go to the length the right hon. Gentleman suggested.

Will the Minister ask the right hon. Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss) to read the last report of the Fairey Aviation Company, when he might be more enlightened on the financial position of the company? Leaving that aside, will my right hon. Friend take that point into account and consider this matter in the light of the rationalisation of the industry which he expects to take place, in order to see that the country does not lose this very worth-while project?

That is my main concern.

asked the Minister of Aviation what steps he is taking to encourage private flying in Great Britain.

The Government help private and club flying by landing concessions at certain Government aerodromes; reduced rates for housing and parking; rebate of petrol tax for club aircraft; payment for use of club facilities by the Air Training Corps; and moderated airworthiness arrangements. The Standing Joint Committee on Private and Club Flying has prepared a specification for a cheap V.H.F. radio set and is preparing another for an economical light aircraft.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in spite of this assistance, private flying and flying clubs in general are in a bad way? Does he agree that perhaps one of the best ways of helping flying clubs would be to enable them to buy new aircraft, and that this in turn might have the effect of creating a market for light aircraft in this country, where at present it does not exist?

I do not know that I am prepared to agree that the clubs are in a bad way or that they wish to say so themselves. We are well aware of the importance of giving every encouragement to private flying.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary give an assurance that there will be no change in the petrol rebate?

That is a matter which is now under consideration.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he is aware that delay in the consideration of a follow-on order to de Havilland's can well cause productive inefficiency, a sharp increase in costs, and the possibility of unnecessary redundancy due to their being unable to maintain a continuous flow of work; and if he will take steps to finalise letters of intent for additional military aircraft.

My right hon. Friend is well aware of the points mentioned by my hon. Friend, but has nothing to add at present to the answer I gave him on 2nd November. 1959.

I should be grateful if the Minister would do what he can to expedite this matter in view of the urgency and the extreme anxiety of the employees of de Havilland's.

My right hon. Friend and the First Lord of the Admiralty fully appreciate the urgency of this matter. I hope that a decision will be made in time to avoid any break in production.

asked the Minister of Aviation when he will be in a position to make a statement on the Government's policy in regard to the organisation of the aircraft industry.

I hope to be able to do so quite soon.

Is my right hon. Friend continuing talks with the aircraft manufacturers, or is the report in the Daily Mail—that these talks have been broken off—correct?

I think that the best evidence that the Government's policy is going forward in regard to the concentration of the industry can be found, not in any denial of mine of something which appeared in one or other newspaper, but in the public announcement last week that two important firms agreed upon a merger.

asked the Minister of Aviation what consideration he is giving to the installation of F.I.D.O. at London Airport.

Considerable technical difficulties have arisen in the course of the development of an effective method of fog dispersal. But I hope that we shall soon be in a position to decide whether it will be commercially feasible to establish such a system at London Airport.

Is the Minister aware—I am sure he is—that experimentation has been going on in this matter for many years at Manston and elsewhere? I should like to know when it is likely to reach finality. Have discussions taken place with the two Corporations as to what is economic from their point of view and as to the amount of money they are prepared to pay in return for having such a fog dispersal system installed?

That is rather a different question. Replying to the first question, it has not been easy to contend with Nature in this way. I went to the experimental station in Norfolk only the other day, and I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that everything is being pressed forward as much as possible. There have been quite a number of snags. As for the cost, it will be a matter for the airlines concerned to decide whether they think it worth-while. The right hon. Gentleman may be interested to know that the best estimate I have is that the installation of a system of this kind on one runway would cost between £500,000 and £1 million, and that the cost of the fuel consumed would be about £250 for each landing.

How is the alternative progressing—the system of blind landing and guided landing, which would be an alternative to F.I.D.O.?

The right hon. Gentleman has struck the important point. In considering whether this will be economically feasible, we also have to bear in mind how many years it will be—and it will not be so many—before air liners will be fitted with blind-landing instruments which will make any fog dispersal unnecessary.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will encourage the building of the executive class of aircraft.

I should like to see our industry get a larger share of the market for executive class aircraft, which we are well-suited to produce in this country. However, in recent years, our manufacturers have found it difficult to compete successfully with American firms, who have the great advantage of a large protected home market.

Is it not possible to give some help to manufacturing firms who are prepared to go ahead with the building of this type of aircraft, in view of the fact that its usefulness to business circles and to industry has been so well demonstrated in a recent flight to Ghana?

It turns on what estimate is made of the potential market. As for Government assistance, it seems to me that the cost of developing a small aircraft of this kind is not very great and should be within the resources of our principal firms.

asked the Minister of Aviation what steps he is taking to ensure that aircraft flown by private pilots will be equipped with sufficient navigational aids to provide safety for themselves and other aircraft.

Private aircraft must always carry the basic navigational instruments. In controlled air space they must, unless the weather allows visual flying, also carry radio so that they can comply with control instructions. In traffic zones they must carry this apparatus in all weathers.

Is the hon. Member not aware that recently a Messenger aircraft appeared above London Airport, it seems with neither navigational nor cockpit lighting, and, in view of that, all activities were suspended at the airport for a considerable time? What is the Minister prepared to do to try to encourage a greater sense of flying discipline among the private clubs?

The circumstances of the flight to which the hon. Member refers are being investigated, but I do not think it in any sense affects the answer which I have given.

asked the Minister of Aviation what reply he has now sent to the British Air Line Pilots Association in regard to the resolution from the International Federation of Air Line Pilots dealing with air traffic control.

I have informed them that this problem, in which I am taking close personal interest, has been referred to the new Air Traffic Control Board for its views.

asked the Minister of Aviation to what extent it is his policy to join with other national aviation authorities, apart from the six European countries of the Common Market, in establishing a single unified air traffic control system for both civil and military aircraft flying at high altitudes over western Europe; whether it is his policy to have military control of this organisation; and to what extent he has discussed the problem with the Governments of western European countries, such as Spain and Sweden, which are not members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation Alliance.

The proposals now being studied envisage the extension of any joint air traffic control system which may be created to other neighbouring countries which may wish to be included. As I stated last week, the problem of bringing military aircraft within the scope of the proposed joint control is being examined by the countries concerned and also by N.A.T.O. The members of the Stockholm Group are being kept informed.

The Minister used the expression "being examined by the countries concerned". Does he mean that Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Ireland. for instance, are being consulted at this moment on this extremely difficult problem of control over civil and military flying?

I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a categorical answer about Spain, but I am sure that the Spanish Government are well aware of the proposals.

asked the Minister of Aviation why he has agreed to sell or lease agricultural land at Chalgrove, Oxfordshire, to Martin Baker Limited, although a number of the original owners from whom the land was compulsorily acquired would like to buy it back; why, in consequence, he has agreed to construct a new public road at Chalgrove; and for how long he expects this road to be in use.

The future of this airfield is still under consideration, so I cannot make any statement at this stage.

Will the Minister remember that, in the Crichel Down debate of 1954, the Minister of Agriculture promised that no land compulsorily acquired for one purpose would be sold for another purpose, and that in this case that is exactly what is happening? If the Government go ahead with the plan to sell the land to Martin Baker Ltd., they will be breaching the undertaking which they gave in the Crichel Down debate.

Whatever happens, regard will be paid to the Crichel Down decision. The Crichel Down policy can be roughly summarised as an undertaking to offer to sell back to the previous owners agricultural land compulsorily acquired or acquired under threat of compulsion by any Government Department, once that land is no longer required for the purpose for which it was purchased. There are two exceptions—provided that the policy does not apply to land which has so changed its character that it has ceased to be agricultural—for example, where a factory has been erected, or where an airfield has been developed; and further, provided that the land is not required by another Government Department for some essential public purpose. All these factors are most seriously taken into account.

Is the Minister not aware that the land has not changed its character and that several of the farmers would like to buy it back, but there is grave suspicion that the Government propose to sell it over their heads even though they want it back?

I can only say that all these matters are under consideration. Very full consultations have taken place and are still taking place with all the interests concerned.

asked the Minister of Aviation on what date he now proposes to introduce legislation to improve the arrangements for licensing air services and airline operators, and to ensure the maintenance of high standards of safety.

asked the Minister of Aviation on what date he proposes to introduce legislation to improve the arrangements for licensing air services and airline operators and to ensure the maintenance of high standards of safety.

A Bill to deal with these matters will be introduced shortly.

In view of the great importance of strengthening the air safety regulations following upon the Southall disaster, will the Minister issue a White Paper with the Bill explaining his proposals?

I do not really think that that will be necessary.

Is the Minister aware that his predecessor said, at the time of the Southall disaster last June, that this matter would be very urgently considered, yet we still do not know the date on which legislation is to be introduced? Could the Government not get a better move on in this matter?

No time is being wasted.

asked the Minister of Aviation what vertical take-off aircraft are being developed for the Royal Air Force.

The Bristol 192 should go into service next year. The Fairey Rotodyne is being developed as a cargo carrier for Service and for civil use. In addition to the Short S.C.1 research aircraft, work is proceeding on the Hawker P.1127, which shows great promise of meeting an R.A.F. need.

Can the Minister say, following on what the Minister of Defence recently said on his return from Germany, whether any of these vertical take-off aircraft for the R.A.F. will be built in Germany or whether any of the Royal Air Force vertical take-off aircraft will be supplied to Germany?

It is too soon for me to make any statement on that.

asked the Minister of Health how many health centres have been opened under Section 21 of the National Health Service Act; and what is the total number of general practitioners working in these health centres.

So far, ten new health centres have been provided under this section; 92 general practitioners are working in these centres.

Can the Minister tell us how many of these health centres are being used merely as branch surgeries, apart from a practitioner's practice actually conducted outside the centre, and, further, will she consider making a survey of how these centres have worked during the operation of the National Health Service Act?

I do not know how many of the general practitioners use the centres as their sole or main base, but many, in fact, do not; they still continue to use their own surgeries.

Since there have been only ten centres provided in ten years, could the hon. Lady say whether the attitude of the British Medical Association towards the provision of health centres has made local authorities reluctant to provide them and the doctors to rent rooms in them?

I know of no representations made by the B.M.A. Health centres, of course, are still on an experimental basis, and, so far as I am aware, and from my own personal experience. it lies with the general practitioners in an area to say whether they want a health centre and are willing to operate it.

Does the hon. Lady realise that it has been suggested by the British Medical Association to medical practitioners that it is not desirable to support health centres?

I am surprised to hear that. I will inform myself on the point. There are, in fact, ten health centres, four more are being provided, and four further centres have been approved, so we are progressing in the provision of health centres.

asked the Minister of Health what is the total number, and the total amount, of interest-free loans granted to group practices of doctors by the Group Practice Loans Committee for each year since its inception.

The total number of loans so far approved for England and Wales is 180, involving £900,940. With permission, I will circulate the figures for each year in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Having regard to the figures given in answer to my Question No. 20, that, for 21,000 general practitioners only fourteen health centres have been built, and, in view of the success of the group practice loan scheme, will the Minister consider extending the amount of money available for this purpose in the coming year and consider. also, not taking it out of the central pool?

Any extension of the arrangements would have to be considered in the light of the Report of the Royal Commission on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration. The hon. Gentleman has a Question down about that matter.

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made by the Royal Commission on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration; and if he is yet able to state when its report may be expected.

I am informed that the Royal Commission has now reached an advanced stage in drafting its report and hopes to present it in February. 1960.

Does that mean that there will be no question of an interim award prior to the publication of the report in February, 1960? Will the Minister, with his colleagues, give consideration to representations in order that the Government shall deal expeditiously with the report once it is received by the House?

No request for a further interim increase has been received. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there have already been two since the appointment of the Royal Commission. We shall, of course, hope to make the maximum speed compatible with full and thorough consultation in regard to these important matters.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he will now take to prohibit the sale to the public without a medical prescription of of habit-forming proprietary drug containing phenmetrazine hydrochloride, of which he has been sent details by the Medical Panel of the Advertising Inquiry Committee; and whether his attention has been directed to the comments about this drug by the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate in a recent court case; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Health (1) if he will make a statement on the official procedure for restricting the sale of potentially dangerous and habit-forming drugs; and if he will take steps to ensure that, when drugs of this kind come on the market, and their use is still experimental, they will be available on prescription only;

One of the recommendations in the Interim Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee on Drug Addiction, which will be published shortly, is that, in general, any drug or pharmaceutical preparation which has an action on the central nervous system and is liable to produce physical or psychological deterioration should be confined to supply on prescription. The Committee further recommends that an independent expert body should advise which substances should be so controlled. As an interim and urgent measure, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department is asking the Poisons Board to advise him which substances should be limited to supply on prescription under the Pharmacy and Poisons Act, 1933.

While welcoming that Answer, I should like to ask the Minister whether he can give an assurance that immediate action will be taken to make it illegal to supply the drug, and others like it, without prescription. This matter has given rise to very grave anxiety in the minds of the public and of the medical profession. It was brought to the attention of the Minister many months ago by the body referred to in the Question and by the medical profession. There are strong feelings that this matter has hung fire for far too long. This is a drug the sale of which is illegal in most other countries and about which the firm distributing it in this country has gone on record as saying that it approves entirely of the advice that it should be put on Schedule 4 and should not be available except on prescription.

I am sure that we have followed the right course in referring this matter to the Brain Inter-Departmental Committee on Drug Addiction. As the hon. Member will appreciate, the Committee does not condemn this drug sub nomine. It is true that this drug and others come within the scope of the recommendation, but what we now have to do is what my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary proposes to do—to refer this to the Poisons Board, which operates under the Pharmacy and Poisons Act, 1933, particularly, in this context, under Sections 17 and 23

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman mean by that answer—which, I agree, is satisfactory so far as it goes, although it has been rather long delayed—that the drug referred to in Question No. 59 will be immediately unobtainable except on prescription? I refer to the drug mentioned in the alarming little leaflet which I sent him.

No; it means that in conformity with the recommendation of the Brain Committee the matter must now be considered by an independent expert body, which we think in this context should be the Poisons Board, which is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend.

While this is a little move forward, will the Minister tell the House what he proposes to do in respect of the drug houses who hold Press conferences to announce the efficacy of a drug which the medical profession knows full well has not had satisfactory clinical trials? These are drugs which can be obtained only on prescription.

The right hon. Lady's supplementary question raises a wider issue. We are here dealing with drugs which, according to the Brain Committee, are liable to produce physical or psychological deterioration. What I am asked to do is to see that they can be provided only on prescription. What doctors should do is a matter for their own clinical conscience and judgment; it is not for me to direct them.

Does not the variety of the Questions put to my right hon. and learned Friend indicate how important it is to deal with this subject comprehensively and not isolated, drug by isolated drug?

I quite agree with my hon. Friend. As I have already indicated, this is an interim and urgent measure. The Ministers concerned are also engaged in a comprehensive review of the whole of the legislation relating to the control of medical substances and are considering what changes should be made.

In view of the Minister's answer to my previous supplementary question, can he say roughly how long it will be before the drug referred to in Question No. 59 is withdrawn from sale without a prescription? Is he aware that, in addition to the effects described in the Question, the manufacturers themselves say that withdrawal reactions have in some cases taken the form of epileptiform seizures—though fortunately, so far, suicide attempts have been unsuccessful?

I cannot give a precise answer to the hon. Member's supplementary question, because it depends upon the Poisons Board, which, as I have said, is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. However, the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that even now most chemists will only supply these drugs on prescription as a matter of guidance, and not of necessity. I am sure that these exchanges in the House today will reinforce that good tendency among chemists.

asked the Minister of Health when he proposes to increase the salaries of certificated medical gymnasts employed in rehabilitation centres and other branches of the National Health Service.

I have approved a Whitley Council agreement by which the salaries of remedial gymnasts are increased with effect from 1st October, 1959, and the relevant circular was sent to employing authorities on 27th November.

Is it not the case that, even with the increases, the salaries vary only from £600 to £830 a year? In view of the fact that these are all qualified P.T. instructors who subsequently have to go through nine months' instruction, with a refresher course each year, and in view of the dedicated service they are giving by rehabilitation, does the Minister think these increases are adequate?

These are the increases which arose from the Whitley Agreement which resulted from a proposal for revaluation in the context of the circumstances which the hon. Member has described. Increases varied from £15 to £150, or, in percentages, from 3 per cent. to 22 per cent. The increases are, therefore, substantial.

Is it not a fact that the chartered society is appealing against this decision?

I did not know that, but there is, of course, provision for arbitration in respect of any dissatisfied body. These are substantial increases, as I have indicated.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that food poisoning is responsible for about 30 deaths each year; and whether he will make a statement on the action he is taking to give better protection to the public.

Yes, Sir. The protection of the public against food poisoning depends on the maintenance of proper standards of hygiene in the handling of food. The Ministry assists local authorities and the food trade to secure higher standards in a variety of ways. The most important of these are the making of statutory regulations, the production of publicity material and the issuing of codes of practice.

Is the hon. Lady aware that proper standards of hygiene in the handling of food will not give us protection so long as we import without treatment liquidate preparations which are often infected by salmonella disease? Cannot we have from the hon. Lady and her right hon. and learned Friend an assurance that these preparations, particularly from abroad, where the infection is of a type to which we are not accustomed in this country, should be pasteurised compulsorily?

We take what steps we can to protect the public. It is almost impossible to legislate for everything, but I will bring to the attention of my right hon. and learned Friend the point made by the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Health when he proposes to make available, under the National Health Service, transistor hearing aids.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to the hon. Members for Stockton-on-Tees (Mr. Chetwynd) and Cardiff, West (Mr. G. Thomas) and the hon. and learned Member for Kettering (Mr. Mitchison) on 2nd November.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the shortage of batteries and components parts for National Health Service bone conduction hearing aids at clinics in the Manchester and Stockport areas; and what steps he is taking to remedy this deficiency and prevent the hardship being experienced by the deaf.

Yes, Sir. The shortages, which were of batteries and receiver leads for this type of aid, arose primarily from production difficulties. My right hon. and learned Friend has already taken steps with the assistance of my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General to increase supplies generally, and the November demands of these two centres for these items have been met in full.

While I am sure that the hon. Lady's reply will give considerable satisfaction in Manchester, may I ask whether she is aware that we have had the disappointing experience of deaf people, when recently renewing a coil, being supplied with a black one instead of the normal flesh-coloured one, which picks them out as disabled persons, which is a most unfortunate state of affairs? In addition, they were told for quite a period that they would have to buy their own batteries. I am sure we are all relieved to know that that will not happen again.

The shortage of batteries was due to a large number being substandard. This has been put right and we are hoping also to obtain supplies from another supplier. In particular, I am told that the position at Manchester for all items is now satisfactory and that Stockport now has sufficient leads for bone conduction aids. It has asked for some batteries this month and a consignment is about to be sent.

asked the Minister of Health if he is now in a position to announce his decisions on the recommendations of the Cranbrook Report; and, in particular, whether he favours the principle of an obstetric list.

Memoranda commending many of the recommendations in the Report were sent to hospital and local health authorities, executive councils and general practitioners on 31st July. I am not yet ready to pronounce upon the recommendations relating to the obstetric list as these are under consideration in consultation with the interested bodies.

This is about the most important recommendation of all, and it is more than twelve months since the right hon. and learned Gentleman received the Report. When he is making up his mind, will he bear in mind that there is widespread support for this recommendation and a good deal of support within the medical profession?

I appreciate the importance of the question. I do not know whether it is the most important—it is certainly a very important one—but certainly it is the most difficult, because there are strongly-held differences of opinion in this matter. For that reason, we have to have full consultation and close consideration before a decision can be made.

asked the Minister of Health how many vacancies for public health inspectors there were in the Metropolitan boroughs at the latest date for which figures are available; what proportion of total establishments these vacancies represent; and what steps he will take to assist councils to recruit up to establishment.

I regret that information about vacancies is not available without special inquiry. While my right hon. and learned Friend cannot assist in filling individual posts, he is confident that the continuing improvement in national recruitment following the establishment of the new Education Board for public health inspectors and other measures will help to relieve local shortages.

Is the hon. Lady aware that not only are salaries for these officers on the low side but the existing salary structure works to the disadvantage of London, and that London is training many recruits and then losing them to the Provinces? Will the hon. Lady ask her right hon. and learned Friend to look into this aspect of the problem?

I know that the shortage is most acute in the industrial areas, but salaries, as the hon. Member is aware, are a matter for the Whitley Council.

asked the Minister of Health what advice his Department is giving to the medical profession with regard to the drug H.3 discovered by Professor Anna Aslan of Roumania; and whether it is intended to make supplies of the drug available in this country.

No general advice has been given about this particular substance, and I am not aware of any plans for making it generally available in this country, but its constituents are in common medical use.

Is the Minister aware that the announcement of this drug has given rise to a good deal of speculation and expectation among various sections of the community? Is it not desirable that there should be an authoritative pronouncement about it?

The hon. Member may have seen the leading article in the British Medical Journal, which is an authoritative contribution in this context. I am advised that there is at present no satisfactory evidence of the value of this drug as a medicament against the infirmities of old age. If it becomes generally available for use in this country, it will be classified for therapeutic purposes by the Committee under the chairmanship of Lord Cohen of Birkenhead.

Is this not an illustration of what I asked the Minister on the earlier Question? Is it not wiser for the Minister or his Department to make a statement when a Press conference has given publicity to the efficacy of a drug such as this, which reduces the symptoms of senility, and, in consequence, means a rush of old people to doctors asking them for it or something similar to it? Is the Minister aware that although novocain and procain have been given and both are similar in effect, nevertheless it is important for an authoritative statement to he made in respect of this drug, and not only in the British Medical Journal?

Our procedure is that these drugs are tested for their therapeutic quality by the Committee under the chairmanship of Lord Cohen of Birkenhead when they are submitted to it. That would be the procedure to be followed in this case. No Minister could ever hope to keep pace with everything that appears in the Press.

asked the Minister of Health the amounts being spent annually by his Department on the dental health education of the public, with a view to preventing unnecessary dental disease; and how this sum compares with the amount spent annually by his Department on the treatment of dental disease under the general dental services.

The expenditure of the Ministry of Health in supporting the work of local health authorities, who are the main agencies for dental health education under the National Health Service, cannot be separately identified except for one single item—that incurred on publicity material, which is of the order of £2,500–£3,000 a year. The expenditure of local health authorities, which is relevant expenditure taken into consideration in fixing the general grant totals, similarly cannot be separately estimated. The annual cost to the Exchequer of the general dental service in England and Wales is about £40 million.

In view of the large amount of money which has to be spent in curing dental caries, does not the Minister think that the amount being spent on educating the public to preserve their teeth is absurdly low? How much has he given to the two Committees which have been set up for this specific purpose? Is the answer "Nothing"? If so, why?

Concerning the sum, as I explained in my Answer, that relates to only one item. The cost of salaries, public relations and so on are not separately identifiable, for reasons which I have explained. In reply to the second part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, the answer is still the same as on the other two occasions when he asked the Question: that is to say, the Standing Committee is not of itself a spending body. It is an advisory and co-ordinating body for the other agencies which spend the money.

How on earth does the Minister expect the Standing Committees to carry on their work if he does not provide any money for that purpose?

Because the function of the Standing Committee is to secure public awareness in dental matters and advise on the form which publicity should take and ensure that the other agencies carry out the work together. It is, therefore, a co-ordinating and advisory body for all those other agencies, as I have pointed out on the other two occasions.

asked the Minister of Health if he will give favourable consideration to the provision of a vehicle to a disabled person with a double amputation below the knee.

Eligibility for power-propelled invalid tricycles depends on the degree of loss of use of the legs and, in those less severely disabled, on employment needs also, and a number of persons with double amputations below the knee are eligible on these grounds.

asked the Minister of Health if he will consult the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television Authority with a view to the provision of facilities whereby deaf and dumb persons could understand some of the normal transmissions, in view of the need to provide as widely as possible for this handicapped section of the population.

I understand that the National Institute for the Deaf and the National Deaf Children's Society are in close touch with the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television Authority on this matter and that with their full cooperation facilities are already being provided to help the deaf in following particular programmes.

While thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask whether he is not aware that this tragically handicapped section of the population is almost as large numerically as those people who receive and understand the special Welsh programmes on television? Does he not consider that one evening news bulletin, for instance, might be given in sign language, also an occasional topical talk in sign language, which would be very valuable to those members of the community? While the organisations concerned have had consultations, does he not consider that, as Minister responsible, he also should make representations?

Of course, we are in close touch with these organisations, and they understand very well the special needs of the deaf and put them before the broadcasting authorities. The hon. Gentleman's particular suggestions, I am sure, will have regard paid to them, and if he has any other suggestions I shall be very glad to pass them on.

asked the Minister of Health how many additional places for dental students have been provided since the publication of the McNair Report.

I understand that in Great Britain there were 652 dental students in the first year of their professional course in 1958–59 compared with 632 in 1957–58 and 582 in 1956–57.

The Minister will agree that this is very poor progress indeed? May we take it from his earlier supplementary answer today that, when the developments recently announced are complete, the McNair recommendations will then have been, however belatedly, fully implemented?

Of course, these are building projects which necessarily take a little time, as all building projects do. We are seeking, as I have explained, to implement the recommendation in regard to the 800 dentists. I shall have to satisfy myself that they will be achieved by this particular list of projects which I have already announced.

asked the Minister of Health, now that the Cranbrook Committee has reported, what steps he is taking to provide urgently needed maternity accommodation for the growing town of East Grinstead.

The regional hospital board is in process of reviewing the existing hospital maternity provision in the region in the light of the recommendations of the Cranbrook Committee, as my right hon. and learned Friend has asked all regional boards to do, and action here must depend on the result of its review.

Does my hon. Friend realise that East Grinstead is growing at the rate of 18 per cent. in four years, and is continuing to grow very fast? There are no private nursing homes in the town and there is no maternity accommodation in the Victoria Hospital. Is this matter not becoming very urgent?

I am informed that East Grinstead patients needing hospital confinement usually go to Cuckfield Hospital, twelve miles away, where there is a 37 bed maternity unit. This unit is under considerable pressure, partly due to its use by Crawley patients, but this situation will be relieved when the 40 bed maternity unit now under construction at Crawley is in operation. Crawley is nine miles from East Grinstead and may attract patients from the latter. I hope that that will help.

Are we to understand that, wherever new maternity accommodation is provided, the Ministry is observing the percentages laid down by the Cranbrooke Committee for maternity units in hospitals?

That is the aim. We have not yet reached it.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the inconvenience caused to hospital staff and patients by delays in the arrival of ambulances from the centralised county service; and if he will allocate one or two house ambulances to each hospital to supplement the existing service and so help to reduce those delays.

My information is that such delays are very infrequent. The responsibility for providing an adequate ambulance service lies with the local health authority, which is best able to decide how vehicles should be deployed in consultation with the hospitals concerned.

While I appreciate that hospitals are not likely to complain to the Ministry every time an ambulance is delayed, will my right hon. and learned Friend consider my suggestion again if I furnish him with evidence in writing that these delays do occur and cause inconvenience?

My hon. Friend must not underestimate the capacity of people to complain to the Minister if they think that anything is wrong. In fact, four instances of delay in Middlesex have been brought to the attention of myself and my predecessors in the last four years, but, as these are four cases out of 750,000 patients carried per annum, it is not a large number. Of course, I will consider any specific matters which my hon. Friend cares to bring to my notice.

Is the Minister aware that the kind of difficulty referred to in the Question is fairly widespread throughout the country and arises from the control of ambulance services by local authorities? Will he give consideration to the possibility of transferring these services at a future date to hospital authorities who make the greater part of the use of these services?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that this has been the pattern of the service since its inception. It may not have worked perfectly—very few things do in this imperfect world—but, on balance, I would have thought that it had worked well. I will certainly give further consideration to the points raised by the hon. Member and by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health who provided the funds for the new Sheffield dental hospital; what additional number of places for dental students were made available by this hospital; and how many of those places have been occupied.

The cost was met mainly from Exchequer funds, with a contribution from the Sheffield Voluntary Hospitals Million Pound Appeal Fund. Some 25 additional places annually for dental students were made available by this hospital, and all of these in recent years have been occupied.

Is the Minister aware that this is a very small contribution towards the 800 who are considered to be essential to meet existing requirements? Will he speed up the other proposals for the purpose of training dental students to become dentists?

Yes, Sir. I made a statement in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford (Lord Balniel) on 16th November, in which I referred to several new dental projects at various stages of planning, including University College and King's College Hospitals, the London Hospital and at Birmingham, Bristol, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester and Cardiff.

How many places in toto will these projects provide when completed?

These are the projects which are designed to enable us to implement the McNair recommendation, which is 800 a year practising, which means a total output of 900.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make a statement with regard to the future of the Occupational Health Unit at the Central Middlesex Hospital.

This matter is under consideration by the North West Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board, with whom I am in close touch, and I hope that a decision will be reached very shortly.

May I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to regard this effort favourably? Does he recall that this was a pioneering effort, certainly financed by the Nuffield Trust, but given the blessing of one of his predecessors? So I am sure it would be in the interests of the whole country if he would see that this unit does remain alive.

I quite agree with the force of the right hon. Lady's point. The fact is that I am in a statutory difficulty here. The work of this unit consists in broadly equal parts of three components, hospital service work, research work, and work for the development of group industrial health services in local factories. I have power to finance the first two under the National Health Service Act, but not the third. That is my difficulty, which I am trying to overcome.

asked the Minister of Health what advice he is giving to regional hospital boards and hospital management committees on the recommendations of the Committee on the Welfare of Children in Hospitals

I am sending the hon. Member a copy of a memorandum I have sent to hospital authorities on this subject.

In view of the fact that some of these recommendations may cost quite a lot of money, when the right hon. and learned Gentleman is considering hospital improvements or new hospitals which require his approval, will he ensure that the considerations contained in the recommendations are included in the schemes?

Yes. What I have asked the hospital authorities to do is to give attention to the recommendation that where children are at present scattered through adult wards they should be concentrated, where possible, in children's units or that they should be grouped together, at any rate, with adolescents rather than with adults. I have also asked them to pay attention to the recommendation in regard to visiting by parents.

asked the Minister of Health whether the plans for a new out-patient department at Selly Oak Hospital, Birmingham, have now been finally approved; and when it is proposed to commence the building.

Sketch plans have been approved and the regional board was authorised in October, 1959, to prepare working drawings and bills of quantities. I cannot yet say when building work will commence.

Is the hon. Lady not aware that this is the sort of Answer which has been continually given and that the fullest consideration has been given locally to this matter? It really is a scandal; it has been a scandal for the last twenty years. Can the Minister not give any hope that something will be done in the near future?

Something is being done. This is a major scheme, which was originally announced in 1956, not twenty years ago. Its cost is about £250,000. We have already accepted sketch plans, and, as I advised the hon. Gentleman, the regional board was authorised as recently as two months ago to go ahead with preparing working drawings.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the public concern that money due to some of the patients at the Del La Pole Mental Hospital cannot he accounted for, if he will make a statement.

The police and the auditors are investigating an apparent deficiency of £52 in the accounts for patients' money. I am not in a position to comment until these investigations have been completed.

asked the Minister of Health (1) how many men patients at the Del La Pole Mental Hospital worked in or around the hospital during the week ended 28th November; what was the average number of hours worked during that week per male patient; and what was the average payment per patient in this respect;

I am informed that 234 male patients worked in or around the hospital during the week ended 28th November, and that the average number of hours worked was 22. The average cash payment was 2s. 9d., but in addition 147 patients were paid wholly and 30 partly in goods from the hospital shop.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman stating that patients are still being paid in cigarettes and tobacco? Is he saying they are still being paid in kind, in view of the undertaking which was given several months ago to stop this practice?

As the hon. Gentleman will recall, in my circular of 4th May last, I told hospital authorities that I considered the payment of patients in kind rather than cash to be undesirable save only where patients are incapable of appreciating the value of money or of deciding how to spend it. I intend to ask this hospital management committee whether more patients cannot properly be paid in cash.

While thanking the Minister for the answer he has just given, may I ask him whether he will bear in mind that many of us who have taken a very great interest in mental hospitals look upon this hospital as one of the best mental hospitals in the country, run by a medical superintendent who is both progressive and humane? If this is the best that can be done, heaven help some of the patients in less progressive hospitals.

I am glad to hear the hon. Gentleman's testimony to this hospital. It is fully confirmed in a recent report by the Board of Control Commissioners who testified to the effectiveness of the treatment of the patients and praised the efforts made at this hospital to employ them usefully. On the general point of payment in kind, the hon. Gentleman knows my view. I will follow it up.

asked the Minister of Health how many new hospitals are now being built; and how many plans for building new hospitals will be put into operation in 1960.

I would refer the hon. Member to my Answer to the hon. Member for Sedgefield (Mr. Slater) on 4th November.

Has the right hon. and learned Gentleman nothing to add to that, in view of the fact that there has been a continuing demand for more hospitals, and that the reply given, I understand. was not entirely satisfactory?

I thought the list I gave was very satisfactory; when it showed that we have six hospitals partly complete and in use, and that we have nine others where work is in progress, and four planned to start during the next financial year. So we are making very good progress with this problem.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether the total cost will be more or less than that recommended in the Guillebaud Report?

It is for the moment less than that recommended in the Guillebaud Report but vastly greater than that achieved by the right hon. Gentleman and the right hon. Lady opposite.