asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what reply has been given by the Governor of Kenya to the request of Mr. Tom Mboya, General Secretary of the Kenya Federation of Labour, for the establishment of an inquiry into the origins of the recent railway strike.

Mr. Mboya did not ask the Governor for any such inquiry.

Will the Under-Secretary kindly check that information? Is he aware that it was reported in the Press that Mr. Mboya made a speech demanding some form of investigation of the situation? Could there therefore be some consultation?

No, Sir. I have checked with the Governor. What appeared in the Press was a misunderstanding of Mr. Mboya's request to the Governor to intervene in the strike. He did not ask for inquiries, as far as I am aware.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is satisfied that the expansion of the social services in Hong Kong is now adequate to the need.

The tremendous increase in population since the war has made it quite impossible as yet to provide social services on a scale which would be considered adequate; but I can say that in all the circumstances great progress has been made.

In view of that perfectly accurate answer, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the idiotic suggestion in this Question has been included by some well-meaning fool in the film of the Duke of Edinburgh's Commonwealth tour, which is being distributed by the Central Office of Information? Since his Royal Highness would clearly not wish to have such "bull" fathered on him, will the hon. Gentleman communicate with his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster?

I have not seen the film, but I will certainly draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the hon. Member's supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when he expects to receive the Report of the Burns Commission on the Fiji Islands.

The Burns Commission will submit its report to the Governor of Fiji, by whom it was appointed. The report is expected to be in the hands of the Governor early next year.

Are the matters which gave rise to the recent disturbance in Suva likely to be covered by the Report?

I had better await the Report before attempting to answer that Question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the reasons which led to the calling out of the Territorial forces in Fiji to maintain the peace.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what was the nature of the recent disturbance in Fiji.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will make a statement on the riots which have taken place in Fiji.

On 7th December, there was a strike by employees of the oil companies. Petrol supplies were quickly exhausted, and public transport services stopped.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply, but does it not seem that this is the prelude to an old story? Is he aware that among the people of Fiji there is a growing desire to have a greater share in the running of their own affairs? Does he not realise that, according to Press statements, it is widely believed that this desire—expressed in these ways, of which we do not approve—is really the basic cause of the trouble in Fiji today; and could he say what plans the Government have in mind to give these people a greater share in the running of their own affairs?

I am not sure that I would go far with the hon. Gentleman's interpretation of the cause of this demonstration. It was, I think, mainly hooliganism and not in any sense an expression of organised political view. For example, it is notable that, of the arrests made afterwards, only one was of a striker, so I do not think that strike action or political action was at the back of these events. With regard to the future, I think we must wait to study the Report of the Burns Commission. As I think the hon. Gentleman knows, the Commission has already reported, but as far as I know, its Report is not yet in the hands of the Government.

Will the Under-Secretary give some information as to the nature and cause of the strike itself? He referred to it but did not give any indication as to what actually was the cause of it.

The cause of the strike was a straightforward request for an increased minimum wage. I did draw the attention of the House a moment ago to the fact that only one striker was arrested when the demonstration was over. There were about 130 arrests of hooligans, who had no connection whatever with the strikers. They were simply taking advantage of the disturbed situation in the town. As I was saying, the cause of the strike was a straightforward economic request for higher wages. It has now been submitted to arbitration, the strike has been called off, and work has been resumed.

The hon. Gentleman's answer is not at all satisfactory. Is he aware that both the Fijians and the Indians are particularly peaceful people; that it is very strange that this sudden outburst of what he calls hooliganism should take place, and that there may well be a deeper cause for it? Will he undertake to look into this matter much more carefully and not just write it oil as being just a few hooligans floating about?

We are not writing it off in that way. I was anxious to tell the House our view that this event was not the direct result of industrial or political action. It arose from hooliganism, very largely connected with the fact that public transport was affected, as a result of which a number of people were trying to get home, but could not.

Will my hon. Friend specifically say that local Indians who, according to Press reports here, are determined to drive out British traders and administrators, are not, in fact, politically involved at all?

In the last phases of the disturbance, both Indian and Fijian leaders appealed to the people to lay off disturbance and did all they could to prevent any inter-racial quarrels taking place.

Will the Under-Secretary assure us that he will take advantage of the warning he has been given to bring about effective and swift political action in the light of the Burns Report when it comes along? Will he not consider immediately looking at the appointment of Fijians to the present Legislative Council? I understand that those appointments are made mainly on the recommendation of the chiefs and that one of the causes of political unrest is that these Fijians are not sufficiently representative.

I am sure the hon. Gentleman would want to see what Sir Alan Burns and his colleagues have reported before we attempt to anticipate what the next stage should be.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been drawn to Regulation 35 of the Nyasaland Emergency Regulations which makes it an offence, punishable with 14 years' imprisonment or£1,000 fine or both such imprisonment and fine, to do any act or publish anything likely to undermine the authority of, or the public confidence in, the Government of Nyasaland or the Government of the Federation; whether his department was consulted before this Regulation was made; if he will give particulars of the number of persons who have been convicted of this offence, the sentences imposed upon them and the number acquitted; and how many prosecutions for this offence are now pending.

Yes, Sir. The Governor did not consult my right hon. Friend before making the Nyasaland Emergency Regulations; but my right hon. Friend, of course, is aware of the provisions of the Regulations. Four persons have been convicted under Regulation 35. Three received prison sentences of 25, 12 and 5 months, respectively, and the fourth was fined£1.

Since the Regulation is calculated to stifle every kind of political discussion in Nyasaland regarding the slightest criticism of the Territorial Government or the Federal Government, will the hon. Gentleman consider withdrawing it?

The figures I have just given of the sentences and fines imposed show that the Governor has in no way abused the considerable powers given to him under the Regulation.

Shame.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many persons interned under the Nyasaland Emergency Regulations have appealed to the Advisory Committee; in how many cases the Committee has recommended release; and in how many cases the Governor has accepted such recommendations.

Seventy detainees have appealed to the Advisory Committee and in 24 cases the Committee recommended release. In 19 cases the Governor accepted the recommendation and ordered conditional release.

Will the hon. Gentleman say in how many cases the Governor did not accept the recommendations?

If my arithmetic is right, 19 out of 24 means 5 cases.

Will the hon. Gentleman undertake to place in the Library of the House particulars of these cases, especially the statement of reasons for detention furnished to these five whose release has now been recommended by the Advisory Committee but who have not yet been released?

No, Sir; the recommendations of the Advisory Committee and the Governor's decision on those recommendations are confidential.

rose—

There are 126 Questions on the Order Paper today.

Has the hon. Gentleman's attention been drawn in connection with these Emergency Regulations to the speech that the Governor of Nyasaland made in Salisbury, in which he said that it was vital that the constitutional talks next year should take place in an atmosphere of peace, and that therefore the state of emergency must continue? Does this mean that it is the Government's policy that the state of emergency must continue until the 1960 talks?

That is a different question from the one on the Order Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to what extent it is his intention that assistance under the settlement scheme in the Eastern Province of Rhodesia will be given to Africans as well as Europeans.

The only current settlement schemes in the Eastern Province of Northern Rhodesia are in native reserve and native trust land and are exclusively African.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that a sentence in the Press said that there was a scheme for specially assisting Europeans in this area? I want to be certain that we are not going to start another White Highlands scheme there.

There are schemes under discussion in other areas in the Eastern Province, but the current settlement schemes already in progress are in native reserves and native trust land and are exclusively African.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why permission was refused for Dr. Hastings Banda to be visited in detention by Sir John Moffat.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Flint, East (Mrs. White) on 10th December.

Is it not a bit stupid and shortsighted to treat Sir John Moffat—who can play a great reconciling role in the present difficulties—in this humiliating way, and to treat Dr. Banda, with whom the Government will finally have to negotiate on equal terms, as though he were a common criminal? What representations have been made by Her Majesty's Government to the Federal Government about this? Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that these are our political prisoners, imprisoned on our political decision, and is it not highly unsatisfactory that any arrangements for political discussions with these political prisoners should be in the hands of the Federal Government?

The hon. Gentleman's supplementary question has ranged fairly wide. It is not for me to say what representation should be made to the Federal Government; that is a matter for the Commonwealth Relations Office. As has been stated already, the question of visits to people detained in a Federal institution is a matter for the Federal authorities. The conditions attaching to visits are governed by prison regulations.

Does not the Under-Secretary realise what stupidity it is to refuse permission for political discussions to take place between these two gentlemen? Do not the Government realise that they are really convicting themselves in the minds of all honourable people unless they allow persons of the competence and character of Sir John Moffat to discuss with Dr. Hastings Banda what is to be the future of the territory?

The hon. Gentleman is, of course, entitled to his own opinion in these matters, but he must remember that one of the objects of detention is to take the person so detained out of current political circulation. and it is very difficult to make an exception for one visitor and not for others.

Does not the Under-Secretary want Dr. Hastings Banda and other Africans to be able to express their views in front of the Commission that the Government have now set up? How will Dr. Banda be able to do this if he is denied access to those with whom he can take counsel? Could not the Government get themselves out of their own difficulty by releasing him forthwith?

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question is a completely different question. Having private conversations when in detention with private individuals and giving evidence before a Commission are entirely different things. The second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question deals with a matter that cannot be decided until the Governor thinks that conditions are suitable for Dr. Banda's release.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will grant political asylum in the British Cameroons to refugees, other than prohibited immigrants, from the French Cameroons who have committed no criminal offence.

Requests for political asylum have been granted in the past. I am sure that any future requests will be considered on their merits.

Is the hon. Gentleman sure that this is the situation? Is he aware of reports that a number of those coming from the French Cameroons owing to the turbulent situation there are now imprisoned and detained or are the subject of deportation orders? Can he give a categorical assurance that those who are genuine political refugees from the French Cameroons are being granted asylum?

Political asylum has been granted in several cases in the comparatively recent past to genuine political refugees, and I am sure that any future requests for asylum will be considered on their merits.

As the French Cameroons are to receive their independence on 1st January, would the Under-Secretary's Department use its influence to secure an amnesty in the French Cameroons to celebrate that event?

That would be going a little beyond my present responsibilities.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will place in the Library a copy of the interim report. published on 26th October, of the survey into the health of African communities living in the Luapula Province of Northern Rhodesia.

I am consulting the Governor and will write to the hon. Member.

I am not at all clear. Is the hon. Gentleman telling us that he will write to the Governor to obtain a copy and will put it in the Library? Surely this is a request to which the Governor must accede if the request is made by the Under-Secretary? Is it not a fact that this interim report shows that bilharzia, malaria and hookworm are endemic to this area, and that it is the responsibility of this House to see that appropriate action is taken? Will the hon. Gentleman give a categorical assurance that this Report, with which the territorial Government of Northern Rhodesia is associated, will be placed in the Library of the House?

All I am saying is that I have not got a copy in my hands. I am consulting the Governor in order to get a copy and I am awaiting any comments that he may wish to make.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement in respect of the result of recent elections in Nigeria and the procedural time-table between now and the establishment of Nigerian independence.

The Northern People's Congress will be the largest party in the new House. I understand that the Governor-General has invited its Leader in the House, Alhaji Abubakar Tafawa Balewa, the present Prime Minister, to form a Government.

Whilst expressing every agreement with the sentiments uttered by the hon. Gentleman, may I ask whether there is any information available on the possibility of a coalition between any two of the parties?

I have no information to give the House at the moment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies to what extent the communication recently addressed to him by Mr. Mintoff opens up prospects of negotiations being resumed toward a settlement of outstanding problems.

My right hon. Friend received a letter from Mr. Mintoff shortly before he left Malta. The letter does not appear to indicate any basic change in Mr. Mintoff's position, but my right hon. Friend is studying it carefully.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) whether he will institute an inquiry into the merits of corporal punishment with similar terms of reference to those given to the committee which reported in 1938; and if he will arrange for the report of that committee to be republished for the information and guidance of the public today;

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will ask the Advisory Committee on the Treatment of Offenders to consider specifically and report further upon the advisability of restoring the penalty of corporal punishment and of extending its application to all crimes of violence against the person.

The last official inquiry into corporal punishment was that conducted by the Departmental Committee on Corporal Punishment which reported in 1938. The Committee's report was reprinted in 1952 and I understand that the Stationery Office still hold stocks and would reprint in the normal course of business if an increase in demand made it necessary to do so.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he will take note of the fact that there is considerable public anxiety on the question whether the Government are really more concerned with the protection of the criminal than with the protection of society, and that it would therefore be in the general public interest that the public should be reassured that the Government really have sound evidence for believing that corporal punishment it totally ineffective as a deterrent?

That is why I said in my Answer that I would see advantage in referring this matter to the Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders, which has already given me such good advice, particularly about young offenders. I have not finally made up my mind, because I have only just had an opportunity of considering these questions, but the more advice we can get on this matter the more sense and perspective we can get both here and, I hope, in another place also.

Arising out of my right hon. Friend's original reply, will he appreciate that economic and social conditions have vastly changed since 1938 when unemployment was rife and when people committed crimes of violence with robbery as a possible or inevitable consequence, whereas today much of the hooligan class commits crimes apparently almost for the fun of doing so, and certainly not always with gain as the reason? Things have altogether changed since 1938.

One of our puzzles is that with the greater prosperity we have certainly not got less crime, and in some respects we have more. I understand the anxieties on this subject. I have e expressed my own views, and if I can get good advice on the subject, so much the better.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not listen too much to the hysteria on this matter which comes from h is own back benches?

I think I have remained fairly calm, and I propose to go on doing so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what consultations he has had with the local authorities concerned on the need to empower the Metropolitan Police to patrol private roads and paths on local authority housing estates in London; what conclusions he has come to; and if he will make a statement.

The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis has had consultations with representatives of the London County Council, and is arranging for certain patrolling of the council's housing estates. No special power is required.

While thanking my hon. and learned Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware that considerable anxiety has arisen from the fact that the L.C.C. has already said that it is empowered to do this, but so far no agreement has been reached? Is my hon. and learned Friend also aware that Wandsworth Borough Council, which is the largest borough in London, has already arranged an amicable agreement with the police whereby their estates are patrolled?

The disposition of the police force is a matter for the Commissioner of Police, and it is open to any local authority within the Metropolitan Police area to make an approach to the Commissioner.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the obvious difficulties involved to parents who live a considerable distance away in visiting boys who, under court orders, are receiving approved school training at The Royal Philanthropic Society's School, Redhill, other than at week-ends, why facilities are not available for them to visit on either Saturdays or Sundays; and, in view of the importance of such visits, whether he will take steps to ensure that the welfare of the boys in this respect receives the consideration expected from such schools.

Visits by relatives to boys in the Royal Philanthropic Society's Training School at Redhill may be made on any week day or Sunday. While a boy is in the classifying school, where he spends a fortnight or so to enable his needs to be assessed and a suitable training school to be chosen for him, his parents are invited to visit him and discuss his future with the staff. To secure that adequate time may be given to this particular interview between parents and staff, parents are asked to visit where possible otherwise than at week-ends; but when they can only visit at weekends their wishes are met.

If what the hon. Gentleman says is right, why is there printed on the form sent to parents, "It is most unlikely that we shall be able to arrange visits on Saturdays or Sundays"? Surely it must be obvious to the hon. Gentleman that parents assume that this means they cannot make visits on Saturdays or Sundays? In view of what he says, will he now arrange that these words will be removed from the form so that those parents who live a long way from the school will be able to go there on Saturdays and Sundays?

I should like to see the form. I think it relates to the classifying school for the purpose of special interview, but most certainly I will arrange that parents of boys at this school may visit it on any day of the week.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will consider making a grant to holders of the Albert Medal in gold.

It has never been the custom for civilian awards for gallantry made by the Sovereign to be associated with monetary grants from Government funds, and I do not think it would be appropriate to make an exception in this case.

Is this not an exceptional medal? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, as far as I know, there are only three or four holders of it and that the sum involved would not be very great? Is it not a fact that, in the case of the George Cross, consideration has been given to a possible award?

What I have said is correct. There is a difference in the case of the Victoria Cross, which is accompanied by a monetary grant. As I have said, awards for gallantry made by the Sovereign are not accompanied. While I quite understand the right hon. Gentleman's interest, I do not think we can depart from precedent.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the outcome of his discussions with the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance regarding the proposal that all coroners' verdicts of death due to, or following, industrial injury should be automatically notified to the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, so that widows do not lose their benefits through failure to claim.

I understand that the hon. Member has received a letter from my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance explaining our reasons for thinking that the arrangement which he proposes would have a number of disadvantages.

May I thank the Minister and his right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions for the great care they have devoted to this matter but ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he does not feel nevertheless that in clear cases of death from industrial accident the coroner could, and should, notify? As most of these cases are straightforward, could not the coroner be requested, not necessarily compelled, to notify and then could not the Minister, after a few inquiries, advise the widow to apply and thus avoid the unfortunate kind of case to which I have recently drawn the Minister's attention?

As the hon. Member appreciates, my right hon. Friend has no power to direct coroners, but I believe that generally they will respond to the sentiments of the hon. Member. I will see that his remarks are again drawn to the attention of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the amount of expenses paid to members of a jury for a daily sitting; and the amount paid in cases where members of a jury are detained overnight.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent jurors are reimbursed for expenses they incur when court proceedings last for more than one day.

Under the Jurors' Allowances Regulations a juror is entitled to receive a subsistence allowance of 3s. 6d. where the period of time away from his place of residence or of business or employment on any one day is not more than four hours, and 7s. where the period is more than four hours. In addition, where he is away overnight he may be reimbursed for expenses reasonably incurred for board and lodging, up to a maximum of 27s. 6d. Compensation for loss of earnings may also be paid, up to 20s. for a period of not more than four hours, and for a period of more than four hours in any one day up to 40s.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these jurors are rendering a valuable public service with very modest reimbursement for the expenses they incur? In these circumstances, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that not even High Court judges with dinner engagements are entitled to hustle them into speedy adjudication on the cases that come before them?

I cannot refer to the particular case, since the men in question have appealed and the case is sub judice. In general, however, I should like to pay tribute to the services rendered by jurors.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will arrange for entries in electoral registers relating to Service voters to be reviewed or re-registered annually, with a view to the elimination of the names of persons no longer possessing a Service qualification.

Arrangements already exist for the removal of the names of those who have ceased to have a Service qualification. An alteration of these arrangements on the lines suggested by my hon. Friend would require legislation and my right hon. Friend is not at present convinced that there is a case for He will be glad to examine any evidence sent to him.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that at the last election many people who were shown as Service voters had been out of the Service for probably ten years or more?

If the right hon. Gentleman can send me details of specific cases, I will examine them to see where the existing machinery has failed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is satisfied with the existing methods adopted by the Metropolitan Police when towing away motor cars which are causing an obstruction; whether he is aware that the police have interfered with private documents and personal possessions found in such motor cars; and whether he will give general directions to them, in order to protect the public from having their motors subjected to general search.

The police are required by The Removal of Vehicles (England and Wales) Regulations, 1957, to make arrangements for the safe custody of cars and of the contents of cars removed from the roads under the Regulations. The arrangements made by the Commissioner of Police provide in certain circumstances for removable property to be listed and stored in a safe place. My right hon. Friend has no reason to think that these arrangements are not satisfactory.

Does the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that the listing of objects found in a motor car is one thing and the emptying of contents of brief cases or other cases is quite another thing and that Regulation 6 of the Statutory Instrument to which he has referred relates only to the custody of the vehicle and gives the police no right of general search? Will the hon. and learned Gentleman point out that the protection of the public and the listing of objects is one thing, but that the examination of documents found within cases is quite different and grossly in excess of the powers given to the police under these regulations?

A great many separate issues are raised by that supplementary question. I should, however, point out that Regulation I of the Regulations states that a vehicle includes the load carried in the vehicle. There is no doubt whatever about the power of the police to list articles found in a vehicle. It is not the police practice to empty brief cases, but to protect both the public and police in cases of dispute as to what may have been contained in brief cases, especially when valuable articles are involved, it has been the practice hitherto not to empty the cases and list every article, but to note broadly what a case appears to contain from a superficial examination and the mere opening of it. Even this practice, however, has been experimentally suspended during the Christmas period. Instead, other arrangements are being made which, it is hoped, will give equally good protection to both the police and the public.

Can we be told what those other arrangements are?

I cannot go into it all at Question Time, but, briefly, the new arrangements consist of the sealing of the car where that is possible.

Whatever the Regulations say, may we have an assurance that since most of these cars are collected within an hour or so after they have been towed away, there will not be any interference with brief cases in any car?

Certainly, that is so where it is practically and physically possible to seal up the car. Where that is not possible, however, it is necessary to list the contents of the car, including the posibility of any valuables that are there.

If the car cannot be sealed, would it not be simpler to seal the brief case?

That is a most constructive suggestion and I will invite the Commissioner's attention to it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that one of the obstacles to the rehabilitation of ex-prisoners is that, because their National Insurance cards are unstamped, they are unable to draw benefit, and potential employers become aware of their records; and what progress has been made towards ensuring that all prisoners are enabled to earn enough money, while serving their sentences, to have fully stamped cards when they leave prison.

Ex-prisoners who are ineligible for National Insurance benefit and need help are given National Assistance. The lack of a fully stamped card is not peculiar to ex-prisoners and does not identify them as such. As regards the general question of prisoners' earnings, I would refer the hon. Member to paragraphs 72 to 74 of the White Paper on "Penal Practice in a Changing Society".

Does the right hon. Gentleman know anything about the difficulties that these men experience in getting National Assistance—for one thing, very often not having a fixed address as soon as they come out of prison? Besides discussing the matter with his expert advisers, who, no doubt, do their best, and with the valuable voluntary societies, has the right hon. Gentleman ever considered talking to an ex-prisoner himself?

Yes, indeed. I will look specifically at the question of National Assistance. The more fundamental question is that of earnings for prisoners, which is a more difficult but important issue.

Is the Minister aware that my hon. Friend's proposal about the stamping of National Insurance cards has the support of all voluntary prison workers?

That is a question for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance. There are, however, other categories who would have to be considered before that was done.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider that if that course were to be adopted, it would go a long way to help a prisoner to feel at home in society and not an outcast when he comes out of prison?

I accept that, but this matter is associated with the question of prison earnings, which is a difficult and complex issue. It would not be easy to exempt this category of people from having their cards stamped.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects the detailed code of marking vehicles carrying dangerous substances to be published.

As the hon. Member is aware, discussions with the interests concerned are proceeding satisfactorily, but I cannot yet say when the code will be published.

As it is six years since Salford fire brigade first raised the matter, will the Minister speed up publication to prevent the possible seriousness of such an accident? Is he aware that without these markings, fire brigades and the police are often uncertain how to act quickly and safely in an emergency, particularly in a built-up area?

I am sorry that this matter has taken a rather long time. The position is that agreement has now been reached with the trade on the general form of the code and the trade is preparing a general list of the substances with code letters added. Negotiation is needed with local authorities, but I hope that we have now reached the end of the process.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department by what authority instructions are given by his Department to stipendiary magistrates never to cross-question any police officer in open court but to deal with them privately in the magistrate's private room.

I cannot trace that any such instructions have ever been given by the Home Office.

In view of the allegations that were made by Mr. Herbert Malone, a former stipendiary magistrate who retired, may we take it from the Home Secretary's reply that magistrates treat police officers in precisely the same way as all other witnesses?

First of all, if Mr. Malone did make these allegations, I can find no confirmation of the truth of them. Secondly, I equally agree that the issue of instructions by the Home Office in the terms suggested by the hon. Member would be improper.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what consideration he has given to amending the law to enable police officers to impose fines on the spot.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will consider the introduction of a ticket system of fines for traffic offences in the Metropolitan area, as practised in the United States of America, details of which have been sent to him, in order to save the time of the police and improve the enforcement of traffic discipline on the roads.

I am considering the desirability of introducing a system, similar to one form of the ticket system in use in America, which would enable drivers who admit parking and similar offences to pay a fixed penalty to a court wthout formal proceedings. I think that a system of this kind is to be preferred to empowering police officers to impose fines on the spot, since the offender is given the opportunity of appearing before a court if he wishes to do so. I am not yet, however, in a position to announce a final decision.

In many places that answer will give a great deal of satisfaction, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a large body of opinion that such a system even as he suggests would be against the ideals of British justice, that it does to some extent make a policeman both judge and jury in the situation of that kind? Will he give it very serious consideration indeed?

Yes. The fact that I had already considered this matter and was able to answer the hon. Gentleman's Question shows that. This is another opportunity I have had this morning to refer to another place, and I hope that they will observe that action is being taken on certain matters. In regard to the anxieties of the hon. Member, he will see that we are taking them into consideration and are ready to take the right action when the time comes.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if the terms of reference for the committee of inquiry into police and public relationships will include the question of relations with coloured immigrants.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now announce the composition and terms of reference of the proposed committee to inquire into the relations of the police and the public and the conditions of the police force generally.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will refer to the proposed committee of inquiry into the relationship between police and public the case of Michael Sinnot, of St. Helens, details of which have been communicated to him by the hon. Member for St. Helens.

I would refer to the statement which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made yesterday.

I apologise for the fact that my Question follows a question I was able to put to the Prime Minister yesterday on this matter, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a real difference with regard to these people and the general public, that here is a particular difficulty? The right hon. Gentleman may remember that some of us have had the opportunity of discussing this matter with him. May it be that the Commission may look into this matter as a special problem?

Yes. What my right hon. Friend said yesterday was that the Commission will be concerned because part of its terms of reference deal with relations between the police and public. I have no doubt that this aspect, which is so important, will arise.

I should like to raise this question with the right hon. Gentleman with reference to the case of Michael Sinnot of St. Helens. May I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that the parents, one of whom is totally blind, co-operated with the police to the fullest extent, that then, after the parents allowed them to take him outside the door for questioning, the police took the boy six miles away from home for interrogation, without informing the parents? Is it not time that this House was provided with an opportunity for examination of such complaints as this, with a view to clearing the air and putting the police in their position and bringing about proper relationships between the police and the public?

Yes, I am aware of the difficulties of this case. I think I must ask for your consideration, Mr. Speaker, because I am not really responsible for answering questions on this matter. I understand that the chief constable has written to the hon. Member and that this case may be sub judice. It does not fall within my responsibility, but, as was announced by my right hon. Friend yesterday, a Commission has deliberately been set up, and, as I mentioned to the House on a previous occasion, it has amongst its terms of reference the question of accountability, and that may help to relieve the anxieties of some hon. Members in relation to the future constitutional position of the Secretary of State.

May I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that the police in this case were not the local authority police but police from outside the county borough authority? Is he aware that there was no consultation with the police chief or any of his officers and that this incident took place without the knowledge of the local police force?