asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will make a further statement on conditions in Aden.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what further investigation he has made into conditions of Service men and their families in Aden.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will make available the reports of the Royal Air Force officers, Lord Tedder, and the Under-Secretary of State for Air, who have recently visited Aden to inspect conditions of Royal Air Force personnel and have reported to him on return.

I told the House in December that we intended to raise the minimum standard of approved family accommodation, and this has been done. There are at present 31 families whose accommodation does not comply with the new standards. These families are moving into better accommodation and all will be re-housed before the hot weather begins. As a first step, about 1,000 married men were asked whether they wished to bring their families home. Only one has applied for immediate repatriation.

My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State returned yesterday from a visit of inspection to Aden and he assures me that everything possible is being done to complete the very large R.A.F. building programme quickly. It would be contrary to normal practice for me to publish the reports I have had on housing in Aden.

Since it is clear that the Air Force fell down badly in the past in preparing for the changes in Aden, can the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that the Air Council and he personally will keep an eye on what is happening in Aden and will follow up to see that all these improvements are carried out in time for the hot weather, which is now only a couple of months away?

I find it difficult to understand how the hon. Gentleman arrives at his first conclusion in view of the fact that only one family has applied for immediate repatriation, but certainly we will keep an eye on these matters.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that until suitable accommodation is available for them no more women and children will be allowed to go to Aden? Is he aware that the only happy people I saw in Aden in September were the National Service men who were due to be released in the next week or two?

I have already said that married families will be allowed to go to Aden only into accommodation up to the new standards.

Why cannot we have some knowledge about the official reports which have been received? Three official deputations from the Air Ministry have been to Aden. Surely we could have some idea of their conclusions and what they found. Also, will the right hon. Gentleman consider making Aden a twelve-month unaccompanied tour until the whole of the building programme has been completed? How long will it take to settle many of these family problems?

In answer to the second part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, I would point out that there is no need to do this. Provided we ensure that families are living in accommodation which is up to the new accepted standards, they are quite happy. in answer to the hon. Member's first point, there is a serious danger that people inspecting matters of this kind, either officially or unofficially, may give less frank and therefore less valuable reports if they feel that there is a possibility that their reports will be published. I think that it is much better and more valuable that we should not do this.

Will the Secretary of State get this clear? The fact that only one family or one man wants to come home is no evidence about conditions In the past. The right hon. Gentleman has given an undertaking that the accommodation will be improved rapidly, and that no doubt has influenced this decision. The point that most of us are worried about is this. In view of the fact that the Air Force fell down so badly in the past, will he personally see that they do not fall down again in the future?

I will personally see that the new standards are maintained.

asked the Secretary of State for Air the number of the families of serving Royal Air Force personnel in the Aden Protectorate who were occupying hirings in Aden, in the months of September and December, 1959, respectively.

Two hundred and sixty-three Royal Air Force personnel were occupying official hirings in Aden in September, and 293 in December.

While welcoming my right hon. Friend's earlier statement about the number of families who are now to be accommodated in accommodation up to the approved standard and while disagreeing entirely with the observations made by the hon. Member for Lincoln (Mr. de Freitas) that the Air Force has fallen down badly in Aden, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether it is the policy of the Air Force to replace hirings by married quarters in the Aden Colony?

There will always be hirings in addition to married quarters. In addition to our programme of married quarters, we hope to acquire another 300 hirings in the next six months and a further 200 in the six months after that.

asked the Secretary of State for Air the number of married quarters now under construction in the Aden Protectorate; and when it is expected that such married quarters will be ready for occupation.

A contract has just been placed for another 156 quarters, which should be ready in twelve months' time.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the great problems of service in the Aden Colony is the deprivation that the airmen undergo of feminine society? Can he say whether it is the policy of the Air Ministry, where possible, to post married airmen and married officers to the Aden Colony and, where that is not possible, to provide some feminine society for those airmen who have to serve there for a number of years?

The reason why people are posted to Aden is partly because they are due for an overseas tour, partly because they happen to be expert in the proper trade and partly because of rank and seniority.

asked the Secretary of State for Air the number of Royal Air Force personnel in the Aden Protectorate who are now accommodated in sleeping quarters which have no system of air conditioning.

About 4,500. All new married and single quarters in Aden will be air-conditioned.

Is the Minister aware that if a twelve months' tour were introduced in Aden, he would immediately stop the exploitation by the Arabs of these other hirings, that we should immediately stop over-crowding in schools, because many of the children are not able to get accommodation in the schools, and that we should stop the problem of the exploitation of the families also?

I have already explained patiently to the hon. Member why it is not practicable to make Aden a twelve months' unaccompanied station.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what Royal Air Force stations in Cyprus will be retained by the Royal Air Force after the transfer of power next month.

Negotiations are still in progress to put into treaty form the conclusions of last year's London Conference on Cyprus. I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

Will the Secretary of State assure us that the non-military Departments will not claim more land than the Service Departments, and his own Department particularly, believe to be militarily necessary?

As I have said, the whole object of the present negotiations is to translate the conclusion of last year's conference into treaty terms.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether he will make a statement on the case of Flying Officer Anthony Maynard Wraight who recently returned from Russia.

asked the Secretary of State for Air (1) why Mr. Anthony Maynard Wraight was discharged from the Royal Air Force for misconduct, thus rendering him immune from the serious charges under the Air Force Act to which his actions rendered him liable;

(2) what action was taken to prevent Mr. Anthony Maynard Wraight deserting from the Royal Air Force and seeking political asylum in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics within a week of receiving a warning from Royal Air Force security officers that he would probably be charged with an offence under the Air Force Act resulting from his contacts with the Soviet authorities in Great Britain.

asked the Secretary of State for Air the result of the recent official interrogations of Flying Officer Wraight; why he was given permission to leave his Royal Air Force station, thus eluding security officers and escaping to Russia; and if he will make a statement.

On 6th December, 1956, Flying Officer Wraight was reported absent without leave. Inquiries showed that he had flown to Berlin on 3rd December. He had previously been questioned about being in contact with a representative of the Soviet Film Agency attached to the Russian Embassy in London, but there was no evidence of any offence that would have justified restricting his movements.

In January, 1959, Wraight was removed from the Royal Air Force for misconduct, with effect from 3rd December, 1956. This was in accordance with long-standing practice, which I have since altered.

He returned to the United Kingdom on 15th December, 1959, and was interviewed by the civil authorities. Officers of my Department were present part of the time, but since Wraight is no longer a member of the Royal Air Force the result of the interviews is not a matter for me.

Many Members are puzzled by this case. Why was this man able to go and why, when he comes back, does nothing more happen than that he publishes his memoirs in the Sunday papers? Surely, there is something else to be said.

In December, 1956, we could not have prevented his leaving the station except by putting him under arrest. There was no evidence at that time that he had committed any offence grave enough to justify such action.

Will not my right hon. Friend agree that it is an astounding statement to say that there was no reason for stopping this man leaving the country? Is it not a fact that when he was interviewed on 1st December by the security officers of the Royal Air Force, he was informed that charges would be brought against him? That was the statement he made in the newspapers. Does my right hon. Friend also recall that this disgraceful affair happened nearly a year after the very similar episode of Burgess and Maclean, which suggests that those responsible for our security policy learnt absolutely nothing in the intervening time?

No, Sir. Wraight was never at any time told that he would even probably be charged with an offence under the Air Force Act.

Does the Secretary of State agree that the Air Ministry have made absolute fools of themselves in this matter? A flying officer, a person of no mean rank, has ten meetings with the Soviet Consulate, is interviewed by Air Ministry security officers, escapes freely and goes to Russia for three years. Then, the cheek of it all is that the British taxpayer has to pay for his return to this country and then, after interrogation, we let him off quite easily. What has been the object of the exercise in bringing him back to this country?

His original explanation of having talks with the film unit attached to the Russian Embassy was that he had always been extremely interested in films. In fact, he had written a thesis on the subject when he was still at Cranwell. It looked as though he would have to leave the Service anyway for medical reasons and there was no reason to disbelieve his story that his interest in film-making had led him to have these talks with the Russians.

His interest in the screen has obviously blinded the Air Ministry. This is a lame and poor statement. It is not surprising that the British public at least expresses concern that we allow these people to escape to Russia and then we ourselves foot the bill to bring them back and then allow them to go free.

Are we footing the bill?

The Air Ministry certainly is not.

How much pay did the flying officer receive for his time in Russia?

He was removed from the Royal Air Force with effect from the day he left this country and he received no pay.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's replies. I give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Air if he will consider abolishing the Royal Air Force ceremonial unit, consisting of two officers, six non-commissioned officers and 125 aircraftmen, and costing £64,000 per annum, and utilising other serving airmen for such ceremonial duties as are necessary.

No, Sir. This unit helps us to met efficiently and economically the frequent need for Royal Air Force ceremonial detachments.

In view of the high cost of this unit, will my right hon. Friend look particularly at the duties, occasions and number of men employed with a view to cutting the cost very considerably?

During 1959 the unit made over 100 appearances. The maintenance of this unit is much the most economic method in man-hours, and therefore ultimately in money, of meeting our commitments.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether the Beaufort wind scale is used in descriptive matter issued by the Meteorological Office with weather maps; at what height the wind speed is taken; and at what miles-per-hour of wind speed the word "gale" is first used in such matter.

We use the Beaufort scale in issuing information to seamen. Our wind measurements are related to a height of 10 metres above flat ground. The term "gale" is used if the wind is blowing at from 39–46 miles an hour, which corresponds to force 8 on the Beaufort scale.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the word "gale" is used very loosely indeed in Press forecasts, and sometimes in forecasts on television, when what is meant is a nice fresh breeze of about 20 m.p.h.? Will he draw the attention of the Meteorological Office to the matter for accuracy in the use of this word?

If the Meteorological Office has misled the public in any way, I shall certainly look into it, but my information is that the Beaufort scale is used only in shipping forecasts and that the terms are well understood by those concerned with shipping.

asked the Minister of Transport when it is proposed to build a motorway to the South-West.

Work has already started on the first section of the London-South Wales Motorway and will start this spring on the first section of the Birmingham-Bristol motorway. This will be completed as quickly as resources permit and the roads from Bristol to Exeter will be extended in due course.

Can my right hon. Friend make any statement about the building of a road further to the South-West than that, leading to the South-West which is badly in need of a better road?

A motorway is proposed from London to Kempshott on the A.30, west of Basingstoke. This is a six to twenty-year development proposal in the Middlesex, Surrey and Hampshire county development plans, and preliminary investigations are being made in order to publish a draft scheme under the Highways Act, 1959.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there is not much point in improving road facilities between Bristol and Exeter unless at the same time steps are taken to reduce traffic jams which always develop in the by-pass round Exeter? Is my right hon. Friend aware that one way of doing this is by developing the inner by-pass in the city itself?

The question of urban congestion is constantly in my mind.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in order to impress on motorists and pedestrians the errors which most frequently cause road deaths, he will publish with the monthly statements of accidents the approximate percentages of what he considers were the main errors causing these tragedies.

I have arranged for summaries of the tables analysing the actions of persons concerned in fatal and serious road accidents to be prepared each month and the main points incorporated in the monthly Press statement.

asked the Minister of Transport (1) if he will consult with the local authorities of Yorkshire concerning the route of the London-Yorkshire motorway through the County of Yorkshire;

(2) if he will now make a further statement on the completion of the London-Yorkshire motorway.

asked the Minister of Transport (1) what progress he has to report on the construction of the London to Yorkshire motorway from Crick to the West Riding of Yorkshire;

(2) what progress he has to report on the extension of the London to Yorkshire motorway in the West Riding of Yorkshire towards Sheffield and Leeds.

The draft scheme showing the proposed route of the motorway from Crick to the Doncaster by-pass was published on 8th January. The local authorities affected have already been consulted, in accordance with normal practice. Until the period of three months allowed for objections has ended I cannot forecast future progress on the remaining statutory processes.

Proposals made by the West Riding County Council for the further extension of this motorway to Sheffield and Leeds are being examined. A draft scheme showing the route of this extension will be published as soon as possible.

May we have an assurance from the Minister that the extension of the London-Yorkshire motorway will proceed as fast as possible?

yes, indeed. We are pressing on as fast as the statutory procedure laid down by Parliament will allow us.

When does the hon. Gentleman expect the extension as far as the Doncaster by-pass to be completed? Secondly, in view of the traffic congestion in the West Riding, can he give any assurance that the extension through the West Riding towards Leeds will be completed as soon as possible after the extension to the Doncaster by-pass?

I cannot at this stage forecast exactly when we shall complete the section of the road to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but, as I said earlier, we are pressing on with this as quickly as we possibly can.

Is this extension of the motorway to have three lanes in either direction, because from the point of view of safety and traffic flow it is very important that the three lanes of the London-Birmingham section should be extended up to Yorkshire?

Yes, I think it is. I would not like to give a categorical answer without notice, but I think that in this case it is three.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that what is really needed today is a national road plan so that hon. Members from constituencies all over the country can be satisfied that some effort will be made to carry out the necessary road improvements? Is he aware that one of the problems is that when a labour force is built up to build a road it is disbanded afterwards and that it takes a long time to build up the labour force again? May we have some assurance about the future as a whole?

What we are trying to do is to make up for many years' neglect of the roads of this country, particularly in the years between 1945 and 1951. We are getting on as quickly as Parliament will allow and as quickly as funds will permit.

Can the hon. Gentleman give us any indication of the cost of dispersing the organisation and machinery and the manpower at Crick because his Ministry had been so dilatory that it had not got any further plans?

I cannot without notice give any estimate of the cost to which the hon. and learned Gentleman refers. As to the second part of his supplementary question, all this was debated very fully in this House in November, and I think it was pretty clear to any unbiassed person that any delay there had been was not due to my right hon. Friend's Ministry or to my right hon. Friend's predecessor.

asked the Minister of Transport what additional off-street parking facilities are to be provided in St. Marylebone and Westminster during the next two years; and by what dates it is estimated that they will be available for use.

The provision of extra off-street parking facilities in this area is a matter for the local authorities and private enterprise. I know of several projects in various stages of progress involving a total provision of space for over 3,000 cars. I can make no certain forecast of how much will be completed in the next two years but expect that there will be at least 700 extra car spaces.

Does the Minister agree that it is essential that adequate off-street parking facilities should be made available for the public at the same time as meters are installed? Will he take steps to increase the speed at which off-street parking facilities are provided by local authorities?

I shall do my best. I am to have consultations with the local authorities very shortly, and I shall impress on them the urgency of having off-street car parking.

Would the right hon. Gentleman tell us how he will find time for all these considerations, reviews and examinations? Will he not come to some decision and clear his mind? He will not then lose patience with the Scots when they visit him with delegations.

I shall never lose my patience with the Scots, whose conduct is such that they would never try anybody. Somehow or other we will find the time for all these tasks, and I hope that I shall be able to do my best with some of the very complex issues with which we are faced. It is no use making a speedy decision if it is a wrong one. The main thing is that adequate consideration should take place.

asked the Minister of Transport the estimated date for the completion of the installation of parking meters for the whole of the district north of Oxford Street in the Borough of St. Marylebone.

The St. Marylebone Metropolitan Borough Council has applied for an Order to extend its present parking meter scheme in the southwest corner of the Borough eastwards along the whole length of the north side of Oxford Street to the Borough boundary with St. Pancras; the northern boundary of the new zone would be New Cavendish Street. These proposals, together with objections duly made, will shortly be referred to the London and Home Counties Traffic Advisory Committee. Until the Committee has reported I clearly cannot say when this area will be included in a parking-meter scheme.

Are there other steps which can be taken to speed up the installation of meters in this area rather than the long and protracted methods now in existence?

Not without new legislation. We are going as fast as we can under the statutory powers that this House gave the Ministry of Transport.

asked the Minister of Transport what steps he is taking to ensure better utilisation of excessively wide pavements as lay-bys for omnibus stops, taxi waiting places and the loading and unloading of vehicles in the borough of St. Marylebone and in the City of Westminister.

I cannot make grants to Metropolitan Boroughs for minor improvement proposals of this kind. They are therefore entirely a matter for the councils concerned.

May I ask the Minister what steps he proposes to take to provide this desirable assistance for the free flow of traffic and to prevent congestion taking place? As he knows, there is an excellent example of this in Great George Street, which is just round the corner from here. Traffic there is frequently impeded by cars stopping to pick up and set down passengers. Cannot something be done to speed up the whole matter?

Plans are now being considered for narrowing the pavement and increasing the width of the road in Great George Street.

asked the Minister of Transport when he proposes to carry out experimental tests on major roads with the sparkling white line.

Tests have been made and are being carried out with these glass-beaded lines.

If these experiments are not successful, will the use of continuous cats' eyes continue? The public are concerned about cats' eyes being removed.

The Road Research Laboratory is carrying out tests both on its premises and on the roads concerned. I think that we ought to wait until we see the results of those tests before going to the second stage.

May we have an assurance that the use of cats' eyes will be continued if these experiments are not successful?

Certainly. Some system has to be adopted to show where these white lines are. We shall adopt the most effective method.

Will the Minister specify what he means by glass-beaded lines?

It is a substance called ballotini which is painted on the white lines and incorporates very small glass beads.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will given the figures of the number of people killed and seriously injured on the roads of the County Borough of Derby during the year 1959.

I am sorry to say that 15 people were killed and 228 seriously injured.

Does the Minister realise that this large increase over the figures for 1958 has taken place despite the great efforts made by a very able chief constable and by an all-party road safety committee? Will he recognise that new and urgent nation-wide measures are required to deal with this frightful increase in road accidents?

We recognise both those points.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary realise that his Minister said that he would not make any comment on the Royal Commission which we are to debate on Friday? It is likely that on Friday we shall not reach this subject. May we have a statement now that he is prepared to do something dramatic to see if we can overcome some of these problems?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is far too pessimistic about Friday.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will now accede to the request for the installation of traffic lights at the intersection of Tebourba Way and Oakley Road, Southampton, in view of the fact that another fatal accident has recently occurred.

Yes, Sir. The borough engineer has recently been invited to prepare a detailed installation plan.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his reply will give great satisfaction to the people who live on the fringe of these two roads?

I am glad to hear that. It has been a trouble spot for some years.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will publish an analysis of the causes of the unusually heavy road casualties at Christmas.

I am arranging for a summary analysis of the Christmas fatalities to be published today and for copies to be placed in the Library.

Would my hon. Friend say whether any one cause, such as drunkenness, played a major part in the increase?

I think that my hon. Friend had better study the statement in the Library. The only thing I will say is that the police put forward drink as being the cause of only four of the accidents. It is not known how many more accidents were contributed to by drink because these details are reported only in relation to drivers and cyclists and only in cases where the facts are such that the police can take action on them.

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made with the widening of Ripple Road, between Lodge Avenue, Barking, and Chequers Lane, Dagenham.

The preparation of this scheme is nearly complete but, until agreement over a proposed extension has been reached with the frontagers affected, we cannot say when work will start.

asked the Minister of Transport what steps he now proposes to take to curb the taking of alcoholic drinks by persons in charge of motor vehicles, in consequence of the increase in road accidents over the Christmas period.

asked the Minister of Transport what information he has gained from his visit to the United States of America as to the effect of the consumption of alcohol on the number of road accidents and the methods adopted to lessen such accidents; to what extent he proposes to introduce similar methods into this country; and what other steps he proposes to take to prevent road accidents of which the consumption of alcohol by drivers is a contributory cause.

In addition to what I learnt in the United States I have now received from the Medical Research Council a summary of selected investigations concerning alcohol and road accidents. I also have the report published by the British Medical Association on the relation of alcohol to road accidents. I am most grateful to both these bodies for the valuable work they have done on this subject, and I am at present studying the extensive information available in these reports.

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is aware that road casualties at the present time are very serious indeed. Does he know that after 11 o'clock at night in a certain area on New Year's Eve it was very dangerous to be on the road whether in a car when certain pedestrians were on the road, or as a pedestrian when there were certain cars on the road? In view of what has been said, will the right hon. Gentleman take immediate steps to stop the drinking of alcohol by drivers in charge of motor vehicles?

It is obvious that the first thing to do is to make a scientific assessment why the deaths were caused. We have not got the figures for New Year's Eve, to which the hon. Member refers, but we have them for Christmas Eve, when 66 people were killed as against 33 the previous Christmas Eve, and 14 as the normal daily average. They are very serious figures, and I have asked the Road Research Laboratory to investigate every one of the 66 cases in order to obtain positive proof why they happened. When that information is received I shall proceed on a surer foundation.

In studying this problem and considering whether any new measures are necessary, will the Minister keep in mind the fact that the consumption of a comparatively small amount of alcohol may affect the ability of a driver to make a quick decision, which is very necessary on the roads today and which might make all the difference between an accident taking place and an accident being avoided?

That is included in the B.M.A. report and, like all matters in that report, it will be considered when we have an analysis of the 66 deaths.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that a great proportion of accidents are caused by an error of judgment, and that it has been shown by the Drew report and the B.M.A. report that the taking of alcohol even in small quantities impairs judgment? Would it not be possible to apply some limitation to the drinking of alcohol by a stricter enforcement of the law, either by a test or in some other way?

All these points will be borne in mind. One of the most impressive things I found in my visit to America concerned Chicago, where, with half a million cars in 1948, there were 500 deaths and then, after they had introduced certain remedial measures, in 1959, when there were a million cars, there were only 300 deaths. In other words, there were twice the number of cars and little more than half the deaths. I do not suggest that 300 deaths are nothing, but this was a step in the right direction.

In the meantime, will the Minister ask the B.B.C. and the Independent Television Authority to give less advertisement to liquor? Does he appreciate that if only one life is needlessly lost through somebody being so selfish that he must have another drink, there will be no sympathy from the public at large, and that the Minister cannot take too strong an action for the public?

There is nothing wrong in liquor by itself. [Interruption.]

Order. In this House we are used to controversial observations.

It depends on the nature of the liquor and whether or not the person is driving.

Could not we have this breath test before the 10 o'clock Division one night?

That question is not properly directed to the Minister of Transport.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that it depends not only on the nature of the liquor but on the day when it is taken? Is he aware that at the beginning of this year a magistrate—one of a body upon whom the Minister depends for carrying out the law—excused three drivers for offences they had committed because they occurred on Hogmanay?

I must be very careful about making any criticism of the Scottish nation.

When will the Minister make a statement on the British Medical Association's recommendations on this subject?

I would ask the right hon. Lady to put down a Question on that subject. I received the report only last week

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will give a general direction to the British Transport Commission to revise railway timetables so that the scheduled time of train arrival shall conform more frequently with the actual time of arrival.

No, Sir. This is a matter of management for which the British Transport Commission is responsible.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the present deplorable unpunctuality on many of our railways gives them a very bad name in this country and, perhaps more important, gives this country a very bad name among overseas visitors?

Some unpunctuality is caused by the modernisation programme which is bringing great difficulties to the railways. If my hon. and gallant Friend has any case in mind, perhaps he would write direct to the chairman of the British Transport Commission or write to me, but all I can do is to forward his letter to the chairman.

asked the Minister of Transport how many persons have been killed during the past three years as a result of electrocution due to too close proximity to overhead cables on electrified railway lines; and whether he is satisfied that adequate steps are taken at the present time to put up sufficient warning notices indicating that it is dangerous to get within nine feet of such cables.

Five people were killed during the last three years. As regards the second part of the Question, I am satisfied that it is the policy of the Commission to erect adequate warning notices both to the public and to the railway staff where it is necessary.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a boy was killed in my constituency, at Alderley Edge sidings, by one of these cables carrying 25,000 volts? Is he further aware that the Manchester coroner considered that British Railways had been lax in not putting up proper notices in this area? Will my right hon. Friend ensure that all such notices are put up giving adequate warning in the future?

That really was a very sad case of a child being killed but, of course, it would not have taken place if the child had not been trespassing, because he actually climbed a vehicle and got much too near the wire. I will look into the question of notices. The point is to try to stop children trespassing on the lines, which is very dangerous indeed. My hon. and gallant Friend may like to know that talks are to be given to all schools on this subject.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the recommendations of the London Travel Committee for the construction of a new tube from Victoria to north-east London, he will not approve this project and announce a date for the work to be commenced.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in view of the Report of the London Travel Committee, he will now give approval for the construction of the Victoria Line and take all necessary steps to expedite the work.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he has noted the Report of the London Travel Committee recommending the construction of the Victoria Line; what action he proposes to take; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will now authorise the building of the new tube from Victoria, in view of the Report of the London Travel Committee.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will make a statement on the Report by the London Travel Committee on the Victoria Line.

I hope to be able to make a statement soon.

I am sure everybody in the House hopes that the Minister will be able very soon to announce that he is to authorise the commencement of this new tube. He and his predecessor hitherto have delayed the answer and have said, "We are awaiting the recommendation of this Committee", which has now authoritatively pronounced in favour of it. Will he bear in mind that this is the only solution of the appalling congestion on the roads in north-east London?

The Report was published just before Christmas. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that it is being studied very earnestly.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, in his further consideration of this matter, to take due account of the urgency which has been stressed about it not only by the British Transport Commission but by all the local authorities which are concerned in the area which will be served and now by his own independent Committee, the London Travel Committee? Will he be good enough to give an assurance of the utmost expedititon in making an early statement?

I shall really try to come to a decision as quickly as possible. All the considerations which have been put forward by all the local authorities and the various bodies mentioned will be taken into account.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that hundreds of thousands of people in north-east London are waiting for this decision and are hoping that it will be a favourable one, and also will he bear in mind that the construction of this line will not only add enormously to the travel facilities in the areas it is intended to serve but should help to make traffic much easier on certain other lines, such as the Central Line, which is already grossly overcrowded?

Yes, I will certainly bear that in mind. I agree that the Central Line is now greatly overcrowded. All these questions will be taken into consideration. I am bound to say that unless this country has an efficient public transport system it is clear that it will be overwhelmed by the number of cars.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he keeps on telling us that something must be done and that an announcement will be made soon, but that in the meantime nothing is done and that we still do not know what is to happen about the future of London traffic, to the easement of which this tube may make a very necessary and desirable contribution? Will he really concentrate on the matter of this tube mentioned in the Question, and give us an undertaking that at least we shall know something about it before his effigy appears at Madame Tussaud's?

All I can say is that the Report was published less than a month ago, and I think that the hon. Gentleman is being unreasonable if he expects a decision in less time than that.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is the third Report to come to exactly the same conclusion? Is he now saying that in his Department they have no plans for dealing with a situation which has been foreseen for so long?

Consideration is taking place of the Report which has recently been published.

On the assumption that when this tube is approved it will be built and operated by the British Transport Commission, may we have an assurance that when the right hon. Gentleman makes his statement he will make it quite clear that the financial burden of this necessary tube will not be of such a character as to make the Commission's finances even worse than they are at the moment?

One of the difficulties about the tube, which will be a great boon, is that it is expected to make a heavy annual loss. This is something which has to be taken into account.

asked the Minister of Transport how many main lines on British Railways are equipped with automatic train control; and how many lines have still to be so equipped.

All the main lines in the Western Region of British Railways and those from King's Cross to Darlington, Euston to Rugby, and Edinburgh to Glasgow are equipped with the automatic warning system of train control.

All the remaining main lines of British Railways are to be so equipped.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that this is a highly unsatisfactory state of affairs, bearing in mind that the Western Region has been so equipped for the past fifty years, and that as far back as 1920 a committee set up by the then Government recommended that all lines should be so equipped? Is the Minister aware that at the time of the Lewisham disaster the British Transport Commission said that it would accelerate automatic train control? Is he also aware that people travelling on this line—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—are subject to the same dangers as they were on the night of the Lewisham disaster? Will the right hon Gentleman try to accelerate progress?

Dense traffic operates at Lewisham but, although it is dense, generally speaking it is not very fast. The first job is to equip the main lines where the speed of the trains is fast. The equipping of the remaining main lines will take time in view of the magnitude of the task. It is expected to be completed by 1972, but a firm programme of priorities has been drawn up until the end of 1962, by which time a further 490 route miles should be completed.

asked the Minister of Transport what progress has been made with the electrification of the Fen-church Street-Tilbury-Southend line under the capital development modernisation plan.

The British Transport Commission has informed us that the main scheme is likely to be completed in 1961. The installation of the overhead and the lineside electrical equipment is proceeding and the complete resignalling of the line has begun. The two flyovers and the flyunder at Barking were completed in 1959 and the reconstruction of the station buildings there has been started. The new marshalling yard at Ripple Lane, which has already been brought partly into use, will be completed this year.

asked the Minister of Transport what proposals he has to shorten the delays to travellers by car to the east coast caused by traffic congestion in eastern London.

Several schemes have been authorised or are being prepared to improve the flow of traffic on the eastern part of the North Circular Road and on the trunk roads to Great Yarmouth and Tilbury. Local highway authorities are carrying out certain schemes on classified roads with the help of Government grants, and I am considering others for the programme. With permission I will circulate a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Of course, improvements can also be achieved by traffic regulation and they are receiving my close attention. A number of experiments are in progress.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply and welcoming the improvements and the suggestions he has made, may I draw his attention to the fact that the East Coast has both some of the worst road difficulties, because the way out from London is so very bad, and also some of the worst railways? May I suggest that the East Coast should have a fair share of road improvements?

I can assure my hon. Friend that the East Coast is receiving its fair share and that if he asked the people in the West or the South-West they, too, would say that they think their areas are the worst off.

And Scotland.

asked the Minister of Transport why police-escorted, abnormal, indivisible loads going from Teignmouth to London are routed via the unsuitable, hilly and twisting road, A.335, and thence through the outskirts of Sidmouth town before joining the main A.30 road.

The reason is that there are two low bridges on A.30 between Exeter and Honiton, and these restrict the height of the loads which can be moved by that route.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he is aware that these approaches are also narrow and contribute to a very great congestion on the A.30 during the summer months? In view of the increasing importance of the tourist industry in the summer months in that area, will my hon. Friend give the same priority to this tourist industry area as to other industrial areas?

I admire my hon. Friend's ingenuity.

asked the Minister of Transport what consideration has been given to the need to change the giving of priority to ships by the opening of Tower Bridge, in view of the increase in road transport in recent years and the traffic congestion that results from the opening of the bridge, particularly during peak road travel periods.

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the increasingly serious traffic hold-ups resulting from the frequent opening of Tower Bridge to allow ships to pass, what representations he has made, or proposes to make, to the appropriate authorities, designed to give greater consideration to road users than is now the case.

asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the interference with the flow of traffic by the opening of the Tower Bridge to allow ships to pass, how often Tower Bridge was opened for this purpose since 1st January, 1959, up to the last convenient date.

Tower Bridge was opened, 2,057 times between 1st January and 31st December, 1959. My Department has held discussions with the authorities and interests concerned, and we are satisfied that they are aware that it is a grave problem and that they will do all they can to reduce interference to road traffic. I shall continue to explore various possible means of improving the situation which were raised in our discussions with the interests concerned, but the problem is not susceptible of any easy or quick solution.

Why was not something done before I put the Question down? Is it not ludicrous that in 1960 the law governing the opening of the bridge is one which was introduced in 1885, the Corporation of London (Tower Bridge) Act? Is it not also clear from that law that any flipping little ship that wants to get through and has a mast which is too tall has to have precedence over all the traffic and that, after 75 years, traffic for miles around is paralysed because the bridge is opened in this way? What is the use of the Minister going to America if he cannot settle a problem like that?

The hon. Member will no doubt be astonished to learn that action had been taken in some respects before even his weighty Question was put down. A great deal of action has been taken by the Port of London Authority, and because a law is old it is not necessarily a bad law. Discussions have taken place between the police, the London Transport Executive, the Road Haulage Association, British Road Services, the Corporation of London, and the Port of London Authority, and many suggestions have been made. Every single suggestion is now being examined closely and was being examined before the Question was put down.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is satisfied that the existing legal penalties for serious road traffic offences are adequate; and, it view of the evidence in favour of heavier deterrent penalties, including disqualification in suitable cases, sent to him by the hon. Member for Islington, what steps he will take to secure an amendment of the law.

The whole range of penalties, including disqualification, for road traffic offences was reviewed by Parliament during the passage of the Road Traffic Act of 1956; for a number of offences the punishment was made more severe. In nearly all cases the penalties inflicted by the courts are well below the maxima, and I see no reason to suppose that an increase in those maxima would of itself increase their deterrent effect.

But does not the Minister agree that something must be done to stop this dreadful carnage on the roads? Cannot he do something to ensure that effect is given to the weighty recommendations of the Magistrates' Association that the most salutary method would be severer penalties?

I quite agree with the hon. Gentleman that the slaughter on the roads is simply appalling; but the power to inflict the penalties is there, and the willingness to inflict them is a matter for the courts, the magistrates and juries. I hope that the hon. Gentleman's question will result in wider publicity being given to the recommendations which were made.

Is there any consideration of greater use being made of compulsory disqualification in certain cases?

Nothing is excluded from the review now going on: nothing at all. I have tried a number of methods, and I have even tried the breathalyzer myself, but I can assure this House that something must be done to stop accidents on the roads.

The right hon. Gentleman will know that on Friday we are, we hope, to debate the question of a Royal Commission on the whole question of accidents and so on. Will he now say in advance whether he favours such a commission? Has not the time come when some action should be taken by Parliament to ensure that severer action is taken against these offenders?

I can understand the hon. Gentleman's impatience, but if we are to have that debate on Friday, would it not be better that I should listen to the views of all Members before making a decision, rather than be dictatorial and announce it now?

What about the Scottish delegation?

asked the Minister of Transport (1) if he will introduce legislation to compel second-hand car dealers to make a declaration of a car's history to any potential customer, and to issue a certificate of roadworthiness in each instance;

(2) if he has studied the case, details of which have been sent to him by the hon. Member for St. Helens, of the sale of a car for normal use after it had been declared a total loss by an insurance company; and what other evidence he has received regarding the extent to which such a practice obtains;

(3) if he will introduce legislation to prohibit the resale of cars for normal use after any such car has been declared a total loss by an insurance company.

My right hon. Friend has studied the case referred to in the second of these Questions, and has written to the hon. Member. On the main issue raised, we are not satisfied that further legislation on the lines suggested would materially strengthen the existing legal safeguards against the sale of defective vehicles.

What is the use of the Minister saying that something will have to be done about accidents on the roads of this country if, when he has an opportunity to do something about them, he refuses to do it? Secondly, is the Minister aware that the trade is in full support of what this Question asks for? May I take this opportunity to thank the Minister for his correspondence?

I understand the hon. Gentleman's feelings, but the advice we have is that it will be extremely difficult to carry into effect the sort of proposals he has in mind. It is already an offence for anyone to offer for sale a motor vehicle which does not comply with certain legal requirements, particularly about things like brakes, steering, tyres and lighting. The difficulty arises in proving the condition at the time of sale. The customer's best protection, which is also a protection of the public's road safety, is through having an expert examination of the vehicle, before buying.

asked the Minister of Transport whether, in the interest of road safety, he will consider making stricter regulations governing the granting of licences for commercial road vehicles, and, in particular, withholding licences from operators who do not have adequate garages, or facilities for the proper maintenance of their vehicles.

No, Sir. I think the existing law meets the need.

Would the Minister agree that quite a number of accidents are caused by vehicles on the roads not being in a proper state of repair, and does not he think it wrong to give licences to operators who cannot keep their vehicles in a proper state of repair? Although the purpose behind this Question is not to put the small operator off the road, would the right hon. Gentleman consider making suggestions to those people for the collective organisation of facilities for repair where individually they cannot afford the facilities themselves?

It is not a question of facilities or of whether the vehicle is in repair or not. The Traffic Commissioners can withhold a licence, when applied for, if they think the applicant is not a fit person to hold a licence; and if his vehicle is not good, he is not a fit person. Also, during the currency of a licence for a public service vehicle, they can examine it and can suspend the licence. There is no doubt that the existing laws are sufficient, and a great deal of good is being done.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the majority of road accidents are due not so much to the state of the vehicles but to the state of the people in charge of them, especially when they have taken alcohol?

To be honest, I am not sure that the analysis of why accidents occur is as comprehensive or as accurate as it should be. I would prefer not to answer that supplementary question until I have made sure, which 1 am trying hard to do.

The Minister said that the Traffic Commissioners can examine vehicles. What staff have they got to do this work? Do the Traffic Commissioners depend on spot checks which the police may make of a vehicle at any time? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that sufficient inspection is taking place to keep unfit vehicles off the roads, because there are many of them on the roads at the moment?

I should like notice of that supplementary question. If the hon. Gentleman has evidence of any vehicles he thinks are not suitable, and will let me have it, I will look at it.

asked the Minister of Transport whether he is satisfied that the declaration by an applicant for a driving licence that he can see a number plate 25 yards away is a sufficient guarantee that licences are not granted to persons with dangerously poor sight; and if he will make a statement.

At the beginning of every driving test a candidate is asked by the examiner to read a number plate at a distance of 25 yards; if he cannot do so the test is cancelled. Drivers who subsequently seek renewal of their driving licences are responsible for the truth and accuracy of the statements they make on the application form, including the declaration referred to by the hon. Member. Licensing authorities have power under the Road Traffic Act, 1930, to revoke a driving licence if they become aware that a driver's eyesight does not reach the standard required by the Regulations.

Would the Joint Parliamentary Secretary agree that, when evidence is forthcoming, it is usually alter the accident and not before? Further, is he aware that a large percentage of drivers on the roads took out their licences before 1939, or in some cases 1933, and have never passed the test? Even if they have passed it, their eyesight deteriorates with the passage of time. Would the hon. Gentleman consult the ophthalmic surgeons in order to devise a suitable optical test, so that after a certain period all drivers can take a simple test to find out whether their eyesight is satisfactory?

We have looked at this difficult problem. The advice my right hon. Friend has at the moment is that, even in the case of those drivers who have a licence but who have never passed a driving test because they took out their original licence before the Act came into force, the requirement to complete the declaration on the application for renewal of the driving licence provides an adequate safeguard. However, our minds are not closed on this point, and if there were any concrete evidence that some change should be made for the general public advantage, we would look into it.

Would my hon. Friend look at the suggestion made by certain of his specialists that drivers over the age of 75 should have to undergo an eyesight test once a year to show that they are really fit to be in charge of a car?

I will look into it.

asked the Minister of Transport when he expects the waiting period for a driving test to lessen so that Section 18 (1) of the Road Traffic Act, 1956, limiting the period of a provisional licence, can be brought into force.

I regret that I cannot at the moment forecast when Section 18 (1) is likely to be brought into force.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are a great number of drivers who have been fiddling along for many years with provisional licences and using the excuse that they cannot get a driving test? Some of them may have been driving with defective eyesight because they have not been tested. It is of great importance for road safety that this Section, which requires people to get licences within a year of receiving a provisional licence, should be brought into force.

I agree. It will be brought into force as soon as we can do it.

asked the Minister of Transport if he will make a statement with regard to Her Majesty's Government's further policy in respect of canals, following the recommendations of the Bowes Committee on Inland Waterways, and Command Paper No. 676.

I am closely examining this matter and the complex issues involved but I am not yet able to make a statement.

Would my right hon. Friend appreciate that the policy set out in Command Paper No. 676 deals with only a small part of the recommendations of the Bowes Committee, and will he do everything possible to speed up his decision on the remaining and major part of the recommendations?

I certainly will, but it would be easier to deal with this problem if we had more experience of the practical possibilities of redevelopment which the Parham Committee was set up to consider.

asked ate Minister of Transport if the complement of driving examiners for Great Britain is now complete: and how many recruits are required.

Last year the complement of driving and traffic examiners was increased by 300. Seventy-one have still to be recruited. I hope there will be a full complement by the end of March.

That would be satisfactory. Now that my right hon. Friend has returned from America reinvigorated, if that is possible, perhaps he will get a drive on to get the 71 examiners.

We will, and we hope that with the assistance of the Ministry of Labour it will be possible to provide the 71 examiners very shortly.