asked the Minister of Housing and local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware that some local authorities still operate their rules for residential qualifications in a way which can prevent people from getting on to any housing list for indefinite periods; and what advice he will give to local authorities in order to remedy this situation.

Local authorities have been advised on a number of occasions to admit to their waiting lists any applicants living or working in the district. Most authorities already do this. I realise that in areas of acute housing shortage, particularly where there is little or no building land left, a specifically residential qualification may be thought justifiable. I would, however, urge all local authorities to ensure that, whatever their system, no local applicant in genuine housing need is excluded from consideration.

Whilst thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he would not agree that with the gradually improving housing situation the necessity for these residential qualifications is departing and that they should now be drastically relaxed, if not abolished? In the meanwhile, can authorities to co-ordinate their policies so as to ensure at least the no people are removed from one list before they have had time to qualify for another?

I think that is desirable, though on the point of co-ordination I am sure my hon. and gallant Friend will realise that an authority with no building land left may look upon this subject rather differently from an authority which has still got ample building land. The Central Housing Advisory Committee published a report some years ago urging no local authority to have a residential qualification period in excess of twelve months.

As long as the effect of Government policy is to reduce the number of houses built by local authorities, is it very much use extending the number of names on housing lists?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman is quite aware that the number of houses built by local authorities is now on the upgrade.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what evidence he now has to show that recent rent legislation has been effective in increasing house room.

The Rent Act has, plainly, encouraged owners to repair, convert and modernise houses, and all this has helped both to increase house room and to improve it. The Act at the same time encouraged tenants who were over-housed to move to accommodation of a size better suited to their needs, and this also has helped. But it would unfortunately have been impossible to collect statistics of all the improvements in the housing situation which are due to the Act.

Is the Minister aware that the result in Wood Green and Tottenham has been that the local authorities have had to use their resources to rehouse Rent Act cases while families on the housing waiting list who might otherwise have been rehoused are still living in grossly overcrowded conditions? In the absence of any statistics to support it, will he now withdraw his claim that the Rent Act has helped the housing situation?

No. There is no doubt that the Rent Act has stimulated conversions, diminished under-occupation and, above all, led to a great increase in expenditure on repairing houses which were going downhill into slums.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the growing number of tenants, now unprotected, who are being evicted owing to unreasonable demands for increased rents, if he will now review the whole operation of the Rent Act, 1957, with a view to introducing amending legislation.

No, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these difficulties are growing and that, for instance, a London property company has recently bought a large block of private flats in my constituency merely in order to exploit the housing shortage in the city, with the consequence that, under threat of eviction, unprotected tenants have had demands requiring them to pay exorbitant rents? In view of the fact that this is contrary to what the right hon. Gentleman said was the spirit of the Act, will he tell us how to put the spirit of the Act into operation and make these landlords negotiate reasonable rent increases?

Landlords can ask any rents they like, but that does not mean that they will be able to get them. If several tenants in a block of flats feel that the landlord is asking an exorbitant rent, I advise them to get together to employ professional advice and negotiate better terms.

In view of that unsatisfactory Answer, I give notice that I shall try to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what consideration he has given to the publication of a supplement to his booklet, "The Rent Act and You", advising groups of tenants threatened with excessive rents or eviction how they may proceed to form themselves into co-operative housing associations, with loan assistance from their local authority under the Housing Acts or the Small Dwellings Acquisition Act.

Advice on how to form a housing association is readily obtainable from the National Federation of Housing Societies, 12, Suffolk Street, London, S.W.1.

Does not the Minister feel that he has a special responsibility to advise tenants who are threatened with property speculation and the takeover bids which have been one of the main consequences of the Rent Act, particularly as he has a glaring example so near to his own constituency in Hampstead Garden Suburb?

I am simply concerned with the hon. Lady's Question. She is anxious to know how people can discover how to form themselves into co-operative housing associations. Those who wish to do that cannot do better than apply to the National Federation.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether he is aware that former tenants of small shops and, in particular, those who live in premises, part of which is a shop, have been deprived of their tenancies because the landlords wanted them for their own purposes without having to profess or prove any need for the premises or hardship if they should be denied the use thereof; and whether he will take steps to amend the law so as to make such a process impossible.

Possession of a combined shop and dwelling-house can only be obtained without proof of greater hardship to the landlord if the premises are outside the rateable value limits for rent control. In such cases the tenant enjoys substantially the same protection under the Landlord and Tenant Act, 1954, as he would under the Rent Act, 1957, unless the landlord wishes to reoccupy the premises himself or to reconstruct them, and can satisfy the court of this. If the tenant has to give up the premises, he is entitled to compensation. I see no injustice in these provisions.

The Minister cannot have considered this matter at all. Does he not realise that all that a landlord has to do is to ask for possession of the place for himself, irrespective of how many other shops or premises he has, and he is entitled to possession? Will the Minister do something about this? Many people are affected.

This has been the state of the law now for two and a half years. I am not aware that I have received any complaint at all from any part of the country, except from the hon. Gentleman. If he has specific cases to give me, I will gladly look into them.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs the income from rents for 1959 compared with the last complete year before the operation of the Rent Act.

I have no figures for house rents alone. The figures for rental income from land, dwellings and all other kinds of buildings, before providing for depreciation, are £1,145 million in 1959 and £814 million in 1956. The figure for 1959, which is provisional, as full information for that year is not yet available, includes of course rental income from the many new buildings brought into use subsequently to 1956. The figures are estimated according to the definitions used in the National Income Blue Books.

I thank the Minister for those figures, which are very revealing. Is it not the fact that in the first two years alone there was an increase from £814 million to £1,038 million, an increase of 28 per cent. in two years? Since then, as further thousands of houses become decontrolled every week as the tenants remove or die, will not those figures be substantially increased, quite apart from the addition of rent for new buildings, which is a small item compared with them?

I remind the hon. Gentleman that the figure of £814 million, which I quoted and he repeated, does not cover rent from houses and flats alone, but from all kinds of property.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the growing concern at the shortage of suitable accommodation for old people, what action he proposes to take to stimulate the provision of one-bedroomed dwellings for elderly people at rents they can afford.

Action has already been taken. Special subsidy is available; a booklet has been issued suggesting good and economical designs; and I lose no opportunity of encouraging local authorities to build more for the elderly. As a result, the proportion of one-bedroomed dwellings completed by local authorities has increased from 7·7 per cent. in 1951 to 22 per cent. in 1959. In current building programmes the proportion is now more than 27 per cent., and is still increasing. The local authorities should have no difficulty in fixing suitable rents provided they pool all their subsidies and give assistance only to those families in council houses who genuinely need it.

Whilst again thanking the right hon. Gentleman for something, may I ask whether he does not think that the situation is now such that more should be done? Will he consider trying to find the size of this problem, because we have a rapidly ageing population and the evidence from so many places is that local authorities are not even tackling the problem at present?

Wherever I go I encourage local authorities to build a larger proportion of these one-bedroom houses or flats, or flatlets, for old people, and some excellent designs are now in use. I am grateful to the hon. Member, because every reference to this subject brings additional attention to it; but it rests with local authorities to respond to the lead I am giving.

The Minister mentioned the percentage of local authority building of this kind. Could he give us the number of these dwellings on those dates?

Not exactly, but I could say that their number in 1959 was approximately double that in 1951.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will introduce amending legislation so as to remove from local authorities the obligation to give their tenants notices ending their tenancies when announcing an increase in rents.

I will bear this in mind. I believe, however, that most authorities, to avoid misunderstanding, explain when serving a notice of increases in rent that the accompanying notice to quit is no more than a legal requirement since the existing tenancy agreement must be ended before a new one can be entered into.

Does the Minister appreciate how alarming or upsetting it is to many tenants who do not understand that it is purely a formality to comply with the law when they are told that their tenancies are to end? Is it beyond the wit of the Minister to devise some way of avoiding this requirement?

I thought I was giving the hon. Gentleman a sympathetic Answer. If there were something which I could do by administrative action, I should do it. It would require legislation and, one day, we may be able to have legislation about it. Meanwhile, I have indicated the way in which most local authorities try to put the real position clearly to their tenants.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the refusal of improvement grants by local authorities on advice from his Department in respect of dwelling accommodation with access to shop premises, whether he will consider making such grants permissible; and for what reason such grants are not now permitted.

It is a condition that, after improvement with a discretionary grant, a dwelling must be self-contained and capable of separate occupation. My right hon. Friend thinks a communicating door should not exclude grant if the living accommodation has a separate access, and there is now no objection to the giving of grant where this condition is satisfied.

Will the Minister accept my assurance that this will come as very gratifying news to many local authorities?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will announce his decision with regard to the redevelopment of the Café Monico site, which was the subject of a public inquiry in December.

On this long and important inquiry I will announce my decision as soon as I can, but it is bound to be some time before I shall be in a position to do so.

Has the right hon. Gentleman yet received his inspector's report? In view of the importance and urgency of this matter, can he give some indication when we might expect his decision?

No. I have not yet received my inspector's report, but I think that there is common agreement that my inspector conducted the inquiry with great skill and I certainly would not wish to hurry him in completing what must necessarily be a long and difficult report to compile.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether, before confirming a compulsory purchase order, he will insist on an assurance that adjoining owners of the site in question have been informed of their rights under Section 68 of the Land Clauses Consolidation Act.

No, Sir. The great majority of compulsory purchase orders do not give grounds for claims under this Section, and it would therefore be misleading to notify adjoining owners.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will make a further statement on the operation of the Litter Act, 1958; whether he is satisfied that local authorities are making sufficient use of their powers under the Act; and whether he will circulate local authorities to urge more drastic action.

Convictions under the Litter Act, 1958, in England and Wales rose from 351 in the first quarter of 1959 to 754 in the third quarter. My right hon. Friend has drawn the attention of all local authorities to their power to institute prosecutions under the Act. While he hopes that this power will be used whenever necessary, it is for each authority to decide how far this particular method of attack on the litter problem should be used in its area.

While welcoming the information given in the earlier part of the reply, may I ask whether the Parliamentary Secretary agrees that there are still millions of people in this country who daily commit offences against this Act without even realising that they are committing offences? Further, does he agree that the standards of cleanliness and tidiness on our streets and in our open places are still very low compared with those in many other countries? Should not his right hon. Friend ask local authorities everywhere to step up the implementation of the Act?

A circular urging local authorities to intensify the anti-litter campaign in other ways is being prepared, but my right hon. Friend must carry public opinion with him in this as well as advising local authorities.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what request he has now received from the British Transport Commission to demolish and move buildings at Euston station scheduled as historic monuments; what reply he has made; and if he will make a statement.

The British Transport Commission has given notice that it intends to remove the Great Hall and the Doric arch at Euston Station. The notice was given to the London County Council, which has informed my right hon. Friend. He is now considering the matter.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary agree that it would be an act of vandalism to destroy the Great Hall and Shareholders' Room at Euston Station, which was the first railway station to be built in any capital city of the world and is designated as an historic monument? Having agreed that, will he see to it that the British Transport Commission is made to produce an alternative scheme for lengthening the railway line, with the platforms and other improvements at Euston Station, so that it does not have to destroy the Great Hall and Shareholders' Room? Will he agree also that it might be acceptable to remove the Doric Arch nearer to Euston Road provided that it is not in any way disfigured or altered in so doing?

The two months' notice required does not lapse till the middle of March, during which interval my right hon. Friend is considering the alternatives about the Arch. As regards the Great Hall and Shareholders' Room, the proposals are now under discussion with the B.T.C., L.C.C. and external advisers to see whether their proposals can be modified in any way.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that not everyone is convinced that there is a case for the protection of the Doric Arch on artistic grounds? Whilst it may have historic interest, not everybody is convinced that it has great artistic merit.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he has considered reports made to him by consultants who have examined the proposal of the Waverley Committee for a flood barrier across the Thames near Dartford to reduce the risks of flooding; and what action he proposes to take.

I hope to arrange for the publication of a summary of these reports this month.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that information. Is it not deplorable that, after the disastrous floods of 1953, and though the Government offered or promised a report at the end of 1957, we are now in 1960 and just about to get one? If it takes that length of time to issue reports, how long will it take to obtain the physical resources to protect the millions of Londoners around the River Thames'?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, two firms of consultants were asked to submit reports, and they submitted two reports. We shall now be publishing a summary of the reports in sufficiently non-technical language for the public to understand them. I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman that this is an important matter. I had rather hoped that he would be grateful to me for promising publication this month.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when the survey of private street works arrangements, being carried out by his Department, will be completed.

Information from local authorities, now almost complete, is about to be analysed. It is not yet possible to say how soon any general conclusions can be drawn.

But is my hon. Friend aware what an urgent problem this is for retired ratepayers? Would it not be more realistic for his Department to give some help? The ratepayer faces very much increased burdens in the near future. Although local councils can contribute towards relieving the problem locally, could the Government help more generally?

I am very sympathetic to my hon. Friend's suggestions, but it would he most unwise to assume that there would be any fundamental change in present practice, since owners of these houses must be assumed to have known the obligations they were undertaking. There are many factors to be taken into account in this inquiry, and I am sure that I can give no accurate timetable.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is more than one view about this, and that it is very disappointing to hear him say, apparently, that he has a shut mind on the matter? In considering whether new legislation is necessary, will he study carefully the views of local authorities and other interested parties before committing himself in any way?

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs when he will be able to announce his decision about the City of Birmingham's proposal to expand into the Borough of Solihull and Bromsgrove rural district.

This is a most important case which raises very complex issues and concerns more than 2,400 acres of land. I would not like to promise a date for my decision, but I will certainly announce it as soon as I can.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that large cities must not be allowed to expand all over the country, and especially in countryside designated as green belt? We confidently look to him to uphold this principle.

In all courtesy to my hon. Friend, he will not tempt me into expressing any view on this difficult application until I am ready to announce a decision.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware that Royal Air Force personnel recently rendered assistance to many people in Tamworth and to the civic authority by helping to dry out flooded houses with service equipment; and, in view of the exceptional expenses incurred in this and other ways by the local authority in dealing with the emergency created by the flooding, and of the fact that such expenses will have to be met from the rates, if he will consider making a special grant to the local authority towards such expenditure.

My right hon. Friend has no authority to make a special grant towards this expenditure.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that flooding on the scale recently experienced at Tamworth may well cause expenditure that it is beyond the local authority's capacity to meet? Will he please look at this matter again, and ask for a report on the expenditure so far incurred in this way by this not very large authority?

I will gladly look at that again, but it seems to me that purely local flooding must be at the risk of the local authority itself.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether his attention has been called to the effect of the Town and Country Planning Act, 1959, upon the purchase price of land; and what steps he proposes to take to enable local authorities to purchase land for housing purposes at reasonable prices.

As I understand it, the right hon. and learned Gentleman is suggesting that local authorities should not pay the market value for land which they purchase for housing purposes. But it was a principal objective of the Town and Country Planning Act, 1959, to substitute this just requirement for the previous formula under which an owner might receive compensation well below the market value of the land.

Is the Minister aware that, in 1955, twenty acres of land required by the Rowley Regis Borough Council for housing was valued by the district valuer at £5,000, and that, in November of last year, it was valued for the same purpose at £48,000? Does not the Minister consider that this will have a crippling effect on the efforts of local authorities, not only to provide housing, but to provide playing fields for the country's youth?

I could not make any comment on the case quoted by the right hon. and learned Gentleman without knowing the full circumstances and, in particular, without knowing whether any new planning permission in the interval had affected the value.

Although the case quoted by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rowley Regis and Tipton (Mr. A. Henderson) is particularly striking, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is only an example of a general tendency throughout the country that is worrying a great many local authorities and has been commented on in responsible journals? Will he look at this again?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman does not wish to go back on the 1959 Act, which established market value as the basis for compensation. I roust say that, as long as we hold to green belts, land in their neighbourhood that is available for building is bound to rise in value.

But will not the right hon. Gentleman look into this question again? Is he aware of another case in Dunstable, where the local council paid £225,000 for 24 acres of ground required for open space and for playing fields? How, in those circumstances, does he expect local authorities to carry out their obligations to the community?

I am glad to say that the local authority associations themselves accepted that local authorities should pay the market value when they are acquiring land. For most local authorities, and certainly as regards housing, which is the most important local authority function, the price of the land is only a small fraction of the cost of the houses.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of continued concern about the pollution of beaches in the United Kingdom, including the Bristol Channel area, by the discharge of untreated sewage into the sea; and if he will consider what new steps may be taken to deal with this problem.

To the reply I gave on 1st February, to the hon. Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) I would only add that the action needed is for local authorities whose beaches are grossly polluted to get busy and make proposals for improved disposal arrangements.

Is it not a fact that last summer, for example, the state of many of the beaches on the Bristol Channel indicated that the steps so far taken have been quite inadequate? Has my right hon. Friend noted the views expressed by some local authorities and medical officers that this is too big a problem to be tackled out of the resources of small local authorities?

Fortunately, a committee of the Medical Research Council has assured us that there is no risk to health here, but there are foul conditions on a certain number of beaches, and I say quite firmly that it is up to the local authorities to put forward proposals for remedying that condition.

Is not this another instance of the Government, by putting up interest rates to local authorities, making it extremely difficult for them to tackle the colossal problem of new sewerage works?

That is a much wider question.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what requirement he has given to the Oxford City Council that any decision by it to develop land in Christ Church Meadow by the construction thereon of a road be referred to him.

Any such proposal would involve amending the City's development plan, and would, therefore, require my approval before becoming effective.

I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for that Answer. Would he bear in mind that even his most bitter political opponents do not desire for him the fate of eternal torment, which will be his lot if this project goes through?

As no project has so far been put up to me by the Oxford City Council, and as the hon. and learned Gentleman's remark did not appear to require an answer from me, I hope that he will excuse me if I do not give one.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he is aware of the periodical floods and droughts being experienced in various parts of the country; and if he will take steps to set up a committee to inquire into their prevention by conserving the national water supply, and dredging and clearing rivers and waterways so that the surplus water can be carried off during the rain seasons.

Parliament has laid on the river boards the responsibility for reducing flooding by all reasonable means, which, of course, includes improving and maintaining main river channels. As regards droughts, my Central Advisory Water Committee is at work on the conservation of water, the growing demand for it, and the case for regulating abstractions. All these matters are, therefore, in hand, and I would not favour setting up another committee.

Does not the Minister recall that, during last summer, the country suffered a severe drought, drinking water was cut off in many towns, and the reservoirs were at their lowest level for many years, yet, two months later, there were floods in the very same places? Could not he do something to solve the problem of alternating drought and flood?

I am not God.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what has been his reply to local authorities which have asked him to authorise county councils to undertake their own monitoring of food, air, and water for radioactive contamination, and to notify medical officers of health as to all establishments in their areas using radioactive materials or presenting possible radiation hazards.

My right hon. Friend's advice has been that such monitoring is unnecessary as it would duplicate the Government's comprehensive monitoring arrangements. As regards the second part of the Question, I would refer the hon. Lady to the Answer to her Question on 2nd February.

Has the Minister considered the representations from a growing number of local authorities and medical officers that they cannot fulfil their public health responsibilities without these facilities? Is it not in the public interest that medical officers should be able to anticipate possible radiation hazards just as they do other potential dangers?

At the moment, my right hon. Friend tells medical officers when there is any possibility of special action being required by them. If they want more knowledge, they are free to ask for it from my right hon. Friend. As the House knows, there is a Bill at present in another place which will, if it goes through, require my right hon. Friend's Department to disclose all such knowledge generally in future, subject to security.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs if he will give details of the number of water supply schemes and sewerage schemes in England and Wales and the capital cost thereof in each year since 1955.

As the information includes figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The table gives the total estimated cost of water supply schemes and sewerage schemes which my right hon. Friend has authorised in each of the years 1956 to 1959. I regret that information about the number of schemes authorised is not readily available.

Is it not the fact that there has been a progressive reduction in expenditure on this important matter during the last three or four years? Will the Minister reconsider the whole subject, in view of the very real need for improvement, especially in the rural areas?

No, the trend is an upward trend both in real and in nominal terms.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what consultations he has had with other Government Departments as a result of his recent correspondence with he Leyton Free Church Council in respect of the dispatch to local authorities of posters dealing with official notices to be affixed to church premises; if he is aware that large numbers of those posters are so affixed although there is no obligation on the part particularly of Free Churches to provide space for that purpose; and whether, to avoid waste, disfigurement of church premises and annoyance, he will take steps to decrease the number of posters dispatched to local authorities for display in church premises, and ensure that normally their display is confined to Government or local government premises.

This is a useful practice, but should, of course, be subject to agreement between the local authority and the Church authorities concerned.

But is the Minister aware that there is, in fact, no legal obligation, especially on the Free Churches, to exhibit these notices, but nevertheless, very many such notices are sent to local authorities and they have to dispose of them? The result is an utter waste. Does the Minister appreciate that it is certainly not encouraging to worshippers in the Free Churches to arrive at their churches and find notices about swine fever, for instance, displayed outside their doors? Will he take some action about it?

I can only repeat that this is a very useful practice, but it must, obviously, be subject to agreement.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what percentage of the black areas as regards air pollution are now designated as smoke control areas.

At the end of January, 532 orders for smoke control areas had been made or were in preparation. Together with earlier smokeless zones, these include about 620,000 premises, mostly in the black areas. Eventually, perhaps as many as 8 million premises may be covered, again nearly all in black areas.

As this is but a small percentage of the black areas, is the Minister satisfied with the response of local authorities to their opportunity? Could he, perhaps, speak with the Minister of Health about it, in view of the relationship between the black areas and the incidence of bronchitis, in order to encourage local authorities to get on with the job quickly?

My right hon. Friend intends to press on with the programme, which he would like to see running faster. I must say, however, that it is running now within the sort of overall programme always envisaged in the Beaver Report.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has considered the request from the Malta Progressive Constitutional Party to appoint a Royal Commission on economic and constitutional matters; and what study he has made of the case for a further review of the economic problems still facing the island.

I am taking this request into consideration in examining Malta's problems, but my present view is against a further economic review while the Malta Government's five-year development plan is still in its early stages.

When considering the difficult economic future of the island, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that ship-repair work is not too easy to obtain nowadays even for established yards in this country?

That is certainly true, but I think we have recently had enough economic surveys of the position in Malta, and the five-year plan has been running for less than a year.

While it is true that we have had several surveys, is it not already clear that the proposals of the Government for full employment in Malta will not be fulfilled? In that case, what is the point of waiting longer for the expiry of a period which will confirm only that there will be substantial unemployment in Malta?

I do not accept the premise which the hon. Gentleman advances. I have no doubt that the position is a difficult one and much depends on the future of Bailey's in Malta. I have no reason to think that matters will turn out as the hon. Gentleman suggests.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what form of Maltese participation there is to be in Messrs. C. H. Bailey (Malta) Ltd.

Bailey (Malta) Ltd., is a wholly-owned subsidiary of C. H. Bailey Ltd., and Maltese participation takes the form of shareholding in the parent company. Many have taken advantage of this, and Maltese holdings already amount to 10 per cent. of the total issued share capital. A Maltese, Mr. Cecil Pace, is a local director of the firm.

Can the Minister say whether the Maltese shareholders have any voting rights, or whether they are simply holding debenture shares which have no voting rights whatever?

I should like notice of that point, but it is the intention of the company to provide opportunities for most of its employees, either through share-holding or profit-sharing, to become directly interested in the success of this firm.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies the conditions laid down in his offer to meet Mr. Mintoff in Malta; the problems he intended to discuss; and if he is yet able to make a statement on his recent visit to the island.

Delegations of four from each of the Maltese political parties were invited to meet me. It was made clear to the Malta Labour Party that there was no restriction on the views they could place before me in discussion. My aim was to familiarise myself with local opinion and views on Malta's future. With regard to a statement, I have nothing to add to my hon. Friend's reply of 17th December, to the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway).

In view of the fact that Mr. Mintoff is the elected representative of the people of Malta and was Prime Minister of Malta prior to the suspension of the Constitution, will the right hon. Gentleman now meet Mr. Mintoff as the representative of the people of Malta and discuss all the problems arising concerning the island?

It is not I, but Mr. Mintoff, who laid down conditions about the meeting. I went to Malta ready and indeed anxious to meet Mr. Mintoff and I very much regret that we did not meet. As I said in the statement which I made when I left the island, I am now considering with my colleagues in London the right action to take for the future of Malta, making it clear, as I have often made it clear before, that I would like to move away, when we can do it, from the system of Governor's rule.

Will the right hon. Gentleman therefore invite Mr. Mintoff to this country to discuss these problems with him?

No, Sir. But when my discussions are complete, naturally I would find a way of discussing them, or of the Governor discussing them, in the first instance not simply with Mr. Mintoff alone, but with all the representatives of the different political parties in Malta.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what communication there was between the Governor of Nyasaland and the Federal authorities before the latter arrived at their decision regarding the proposed interview between Sir John Moffat and Dr. Banda; and what views the Governor expressed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will summarise the communications which passed between the Governor of Nyasaland and tae Government of the Federation regarding the latter's decision not to allow Sir John Moffat to visit Dr. Banda; and what assurances were obtained as a result of these communications.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what representations have been made by the Governor of Nyasaland to the Federal Government requesting that Sir John Moffat be allowed to visit Dr. Banda in Gwelogaol.

I would refer the hon. Members to the reply given to the hon. Member for Flint, East (Mrs. White) on 10th December. As stated in that reply, the conditions under which Sir John Moffat could have seen Dr. Banda naturally formed the subject of consultation between the Federal and Nyasaland Governments. It is not customary, however, to divulge the nature of such discussions between Governments.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that the Governor of Nyasaland was not overruled in this matter by the Federal authorities?

The position is that the question of who interviews people who are held in prison is a matter entirely for the Federal authorities and not for the Governor of Nyasaland.

Would the Minister agree that Sir John Moffat is a man of great distinction who represents an important body of opinion in Central Africa? Surely, he should be encouraged to meet Dr. Banda, because it might lead to some very valuable result?

Sir John Moffat is certainly a man of very considerable eminence. I do not deny that for a moment, but this is the only case that has caused this sort of difficulty, and I have no reason to think that there will be a recurrence.

Is it not a fact that although Dr. Banda is in a Federal prison he is not a Federal prisoner, and that, in fact, he is being detained under emergency regulations for which the Minister is responsible? In view of that fact, is it not the duty of the Governor of Nyasaland to have a continuing responsibility for his prisoner, and can the Colonial Secretary tell us whether the Governor has discharged that responsibility by making representations demanding that Dr. Banda be allowed to see all reasonable persons, including Sir John Moffat?

With respect, I do not think that the hon. Lady is wholly right, although I agree with much of what she has said. The position is that Dr. Banda, and for that matter any detainee, whether in Nyasaland or in Southern Rhodesia, is detained and can be freed by order of the Governor. When they are in prison, and in prisons in the Federation, again, whether they are in Nyasaland or in Southern Rhodesia, they are entirely a matter for the Federal Government, which makes the regulations.

Is that quite correct? Is not the responsibility for prisons a concurrent responsibility? Having regard to the fact that Dr. Banda is a political prisoner, is it not a matter of immense political importance and significance that he should be under the exclusive control in prison of Sir Roy Welensky, who is his greatest opponent on the Central Africa issue, and should not Dr. Banda be in prison under the exclusive control of the Governor of Nyasaland, who is directly responsible to the Minister?

On the last point, he could not be in such a prison, because all prisons, whether in Nyasaland or not, are Federal. I will look into the point that the hon. and learned Gentleman has raised, but with great respect I think he is wrong. I think it is not a concurrent matter, but a matter which accrues to the Federal Government by the operation of Article 31 of the Constitution. I am saying that from memory, but I am fairly sure that it is right.

Is not the Colonial Secretary aware that my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Newport (Sir F. Soskice) put to him just after Christmas a way in which it would be quite possible to frame a detention order by the Governor of Nyasaland so that Sir John Moffat could see Dr. Banda? Is not this the real position? Although the Governor has expressed his willingness to allow Sir John Moffat to see Dr. Banda, he is not willing to take the steps which he could legally take by varying the detention order to enable him to do so?

The Governor can certainly vary the detention order, but I think that it is arguable whether that in its turn would overrule in those circumstances the Federal rule to which I have referred. I take it that the hon. Gentleman agrees with my interpretation of where responsibility there lies. It is certainly possible for the Governor of Nyasaland either to release or to make a change in a detention order, though, as I have said, I do not think that just because of this case, which took place many months ago, it is necessary to do so.

Would the right hon. Gentleman explain a further point? Since he has said that Dr. Banda is held in detention only under the emergency order of the Governor, and since he has said that the Governor could order him to be released at any time, would he explain why, therefore, the Governor has not the power to determine the conditions under which he is detained; and, if he has such a power, why does not that dispose of the point raised by my hon. Friend?

I do not think it does. He has the power to vary the conditions of the order, but this does not alter the position under the Federal law whereby anyone who is held in prison is subject to Federal administration.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Minister of State for Commonwealth Relations referred to prisons in this House the other day as being a concurrent matter? Will the Minister check this position, and if he is wrong in his assumption that they are not a concurrent matter, but exclusively under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government, will he then come back to the House and amend his attitude towards it?

Certainly, if I am wrong. I have said that I was speaking from recollection, although my impression is that this is not concurrent, but operates under Article 31. Naturally, if I am wrong about this, I will tell the House tomorrow after Questions. I would not dream of doing anything else.

On a point of order. A short time ago in a supplementary answer to the hon. and learned Member for Leicester, North-East (Sir L. Ungoed-Thomas) and when discussing the question of prison legislation in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, I said that my recollection was that the Federal Government have exclusive legislative power and that this was not a matter of concurrent legislation.

I thank the Minister for so promptly making that correction. Now that he realises that under the concurrent list he has power with regard to prisons, would he be so good as to look again at my suggestion that Dr. Banda should be brought to a prison under his own direct responsibility in Nyasaland?

I think I will have to look into that matter in the light of the questions that were put today.

rose—

Does the hon. Member desire to pursue that topic, because I believe that we ought to bring it to an end?

No, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will now lift the state of emergency in Nyasaland, and release all political detainees, including Dr. Hastings Banda.

I would refer the hon. Member to replies to the hon. Member for Eton and Slough (Mr. Brockway) and the hon. and learned Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hector Hughes) on 17th November last.

Is the Colonial Secretary aware that the form of words used on 17th November has become a little more than tarnished after this interval of eleven months? Why is this emergency continuing? Why is Dr. Banda being kept in prison? If Dr. Banda cannot be returned immediately to Nyasaland, will the Colonial Secretary consider inviting him to this country en route for Zomba?

I tried to answer some of these questions in what I said at Leeds on the accelerated release of detainees, which is now in the process of being carried out. I said then that I hoped there would be an early end to the emergency.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will state the terms on which farms may be acquired by ex-Service men in Northern Rhodesia under the land settlement scheme recently announced by the Government of the Federation of -Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

This is a special training scheme for ex-Service men prematurely retired from the Armed Forces. Before taking possession of the farms allocated to them, successful applicants will be required to undergo a two-year training period with an experienced tobacco farmer. They will also be required to deposit £3,500 with the Northern Rhodesia Government for the future development of their farms and to be in receipt of an income with which to maintain themselves and their families during the training period.

While nobody will expect that many Africans will be in possession of such income, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the scheme is open to people of all races, provided that they have such an income?

Yes, it would be, but I agree that very few Africans, if any at all, would qualify under this. As I have said, it is a scheme for ex-Service men prematurely retired from the Armed Forces, and I think that the knowledge, the skill and the contribution to the economy which these people could bring to Northern Rhodesia would be very welcome.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if his attention has been drawn to new restrictive Bills, namely, L.C.B. 47, 1959, and L.C.B. 48, 1959, which have just been gazetted in Northern Rhodesia; if he is aware that these two Bills are oppressive in character, and that he has power, to be exercised through the Governor of Northern Rhodesia to disallow them; and if he will exercise his power of disallowance accordingly.

I have seen these Bills. The Protected Places and Areas Bill provides for the protection of essential installations from wanton damage or sabotage. The Preservation of Public Security Bill is designed to enable the Governor, when a recongisable threat to public security arises, to take such Rowers as the actual situation may necessitate with the object of preventing grave disorder. Both Bills have my general approval.

Does the Minister realise that it is particularly unfortunate to persist with repressive legislation of this kind at the present time, when all people of good will are seeking to enlarge the liberties of Africans and to create an atmosphere of good will amongst the European and African people? Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his decision upon this point? Does he realise that if he does not disallow these Bills, he must take the consequences?

The hon. and learned Member must realise that, far from this being an attempt to introduce repressive legislation, its object at least is exactly the reverse, as we explained when discussing the similar type of Bill in Kenya. The position, briefly, is that at the moment a Governor can only take the full powers that are available to him by Order in Council for an emergency. The object of this is to make lesser powers available to him, which may save the situation from deteriorating to the point at which emergency has to be declared.

Is the Minister aware that these Bills were opposed in Northern Rhodesia by representatives of all the parties and of all the races? Although they were not defeated, there was substantial opposition to them. Can the Secretary of State tell the House, as this is an important matter, what were the grounds of the principal opposition?

That may be so only in relation to one Bill. Concerning the first one, the Protected Places and Areas Bill, there was no division on Third Reading. Indeed, Sir John Moffat said in his speech that the Bill was acceptable to him. The second one was, no doubt, opposed on the ground that these were very wide powers indeed to put into the hands of a Governor. I entirely agree with that criticism so far as it goes, but I believe that both in Kenya and here, this form of legislation will be found to prevent, not to encourage, the situations that lead to emergency.

Mr. Dugdale.

Does the Colonial Secretary inform himself—

Order. If we are to get on, I have to assert some violence from time to time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the circumstances in which the houses of United National Independence Party leaders in Lusaka were searched by plain-clothes police.

The search was carried out under warrant with the object of finding documents required in connection with investigations into criminal offences.

Were any documents found?

In one case, yes.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that African members of the Northern Rhodesian Civil Service, travelling abroad on official business, are sometimes compelled by the exigencies of the airline schedules to spend a night in Salisbury, and that, on these occasions, they have been refused admittance to the Jameson Hotel in Salisbury on the grounds that, although the hotel is nominally multi-racial, it is only allowed under the Land Apportionment Act of Southern Rhodesia to admit non-indigenous Africans; and what representations he has made regarding the provision of suitable accommodation for officials for whom he is responsible while in transit through Southern Rhodesia.

I am aware of only one recent case of an African civil servant being refused admission to the Jameson Hotel. No representations have been made as it is known that the hotel proprietors are applying for the necessary licence to accommodate indigenous Africans.

Is it not an absurd system of multi-racialism which allows a hotel to give accommodation to an African only if he does not come from inside the so-called multi-racial federation? Is not the Colonial Secretary directly concerned, since by the nature of the air transport many of his officials in the two Protectorates are compelled often to be in transit through Salisbury? Will the right hon. Gentleman, therefore, tell the House what provision is available for African civil servants from Northern Rhodesia who have to spend a night on official business in Salisbury?

If the hon. Lady studies my Answer, I think that she will find that the point is met, because a provision which is an important advance was added last year to the Land Apportionment Act. I will send the hon. Lady details. If the licence to which I have referred in my main Answer is granted, his sort of problem will not arise.

Is the licence granted?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what instructions he has given to the Governors of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland to make arrangements for any colonial civil servants, who so wish, to appear before or send evidence to the Monckton Commission either for or against the Federation, in its present form, of the Protectorate in which he serves with the Colony of Southern Rhodesia.

None, Sir. The Governors of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland are, however, considering whether it would be appropriate for civil servants to give evidence to the Commission.

Does not the Colonial Secretary agree that it would be very useful indeed if these colonial civil servants could appear before the Monckton Commission? Is he aware that a few days ago, Sir Roy Welensky said that he was aware that many colonial civil servants in Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland were opposed to federation? Does not the Colonial Secretary agree that it is important that this sort of information from the colonial civil servants should be available to the Commission?

That is a point of view and, doubtless, one that is being taken into account by the Governors as they consider this matter. There is also what might be called the traditional point of view, that civil servants who appear before commissions—if they appear at all, which in a sense is unusual—confine themselves, not to opinion, but to factual statements.

asked the Prime Minister what protests he has received from the Federal Government of Rhodesia and Nyasaland and the Government of the Colony of Southern Rhodesia regarding the rejection of the terms of reference of the Monckton Commission by Lord Shawcross, a member appointed by him.

I have been asked to reply.

Even if the Home Secretary cannot accept the implications has he seen a report of the speech made by Sir Roy Welensky on 13th January, in which he said that he and Sir Edgar Whitehead

"found it deplorable that Lord Shawcross should have seen fit to publicise his views before the Commission had begun its work and to have done so in a matter which seems to us at complete variance with the terms of reference—"?

No, Sir. I am not prepared to add to or to subtract from the terms of reference or to put any gloss upon them. I have read all the statements concerned.

Is this not an extraordinary situation. The Prime Minister of the Federation has said that the remarks of Lord Shawcross are deplorable and at variance with the terms of reference. Are we not to be told Her Majesty's Government's views on these terms of reference? Do they agree with Sir Roy Welensky on this point or not? Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware that Sir Roy Welensky said that he intended to take up this matter as one of the first things to be discussed with the Prime Minister? Can the right hon Gentleman tell us the outcome of those discussions?

No, Sir, I cannot give the detailed discussions which my right hon. Friend had with the Prime Minister of the Federation, although all relevant questions were discussed and I do not doubt that discussions took place on this subject also.

asked the Prime Minister if, in view of the negotiations with the medical profession following the publication of the Report of the Royal Commission on Dentists' and Doctors' Remuneration and the importance of the Government's decisions arising therefrom, he will enlarge the Cabinet by the inclusion of the Minister of Health.

I have been asked to reply.

Will the Leader of the House use his very impressive pursuasive qualities on his right hon. Friend to urge him to take into consideration, not only the Government's position vis-à-vis the Minister, but, in view of these negotiations with the medical profession, the need for confidence on the other side in the negotiations if the outcome is to be satisfactory? The Report to be published next Thursday week may well set the pattern of the family doctor service for the next twenty years. The way in which previous negotiations were carried on destroyed the confidence of the medical profession. This single act perhaps would be sufficient to restore confidence in the Government.

The hon. Member's Question will have done a service if it draws attention to the fact that the Government attach the greatest possible importance to this Commission and to the findings which we shall see on 18th February. I can assure the hon. Member and the House that this matter will be treated by the Government as one of the first importance.