asked the Minister of Power what progress has been made in implementing his recent undertaking to the hon. Member for Bosworth to consider amending legislation by which exemption would not automatically be given under the Clean Air Act to installations burning fuel oil from Middle East sources.

Both oil-fired and the newer mechanically-fired coal installations are exempt because they make little or no smoke. Amending legislation to deal with sulphur as well as smoke emitted by both coal and oil would be a matter for my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister for Housing and Local Government and Welsh Affairs. I understand this would neither be practicable in the present state of scientific and technical knowledge nor likely to serve the purpose the hon. Member has in mind.

Does the Minister realise that he is being wrongly advised and that in Los Angeles so many people were killed by sulphur from oil in the various smogs which occurred there that legislation was passed preventing the use of any appliances during the winter months which burnt oil containing more than ½ per cent. of sulphur? Does he not realise that 70 per cent. of the oil burnt in this country contains 3 per cent. of sulphur, double the amount in coal, and people are being poisoned by the emission of oil fumes permitted by the Minister of Power at the same time as the coal industry is being ruined?

I do not deny for a moment that sulphur is most obnoxious, but the Beaver Committee reported recently that there was no present prospect of substantially reducing the emission of sulphur oxides from general industry or domestic fires. That is one reason why I do not think that it would be practicable to do what the hon. Gentleman suggests. The other reason is that a ton of oil, as he knows, does the same work as 1½ or 2 tons of coal, and there is, therefore, as my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary said the other day, really no reason to believe that oil burning produces more sulphur than coal.

Does the Minister not realise that most of the sulphur when coal is burnt remains in the ash and does harm to no one, whereas the sulphur produced by burning Middle East oil, the 3 per cent., goes straight out into the atmosphere and is killing people every day?

The findings of the Beaver Committee still seem to be relevant and, therefore, I do not think it is practicable to do what the hon. Gentleman would like.

asked the Minister of Power what technical advisers he has to keep him informed on the relative merits of heating by coke, coal or oil.

I receive authoritative advice in this field from my Scientific Advisory Council and my Fuel Efficiency Advisory Committee. The advice of my Chief Scientist and his staff is also constantly available to me.

Will the Minister send them hot-foot to Windsor Castle to prevent the conversion of the coke-burning heating installations to oil? If the conversion takes place, it will be a disastrous blow to the miners who may think that in these dangerous days for the coal industry even the Queen has turned against them.

I think my advisers might be trespassing if they went to Windsor Castle. I understand that, with his usual sagacity, the hon. Gentleman has already put down a Question to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Works. I hope that my right hon. Friend will be able to give him an Answer tomorrow.

asked the Minister of Power if he will give a general direction to the National Coal Board to employ unemployed miners for the purpose of distributing coal from the pits directly to household consumers.

No, Sir. Other things being equal, the Board already gives preference to applicants formerly employed in the coal industry when it fills vacancies in its distributing organisation. This organisation exists in certain areas only.

The point of the Question, of course, is that an exorbitant price is being charged for domestic coal at the moment. In Northumberland, I think, the average pithead price is 84s., and the amount of overcharge beyond the pit price seems to be tremendous when people have to pay nearly £8 a ton. Is there not an opening here for unemployed miners?

The hon. Gentleman asks me to employ unemployed miners. His supplementary question seems to me to go rather wider than the Question on the Order Paper. I think it is perhaps more relevant to his next Question.

To ask the Minister of Power if he will give a general direction to the National Coal Board to investigate the commercial factors involved in undertaking a household coal distribution service in all districts not immediately adjacent to pit areas, and to submit to him detailed estimates of the cost of such a service.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I want to draw attention to a slight mistake in my Question. All that is required to put it right is the deletion of the word "not".

Very well. Answer to Question No. 6, without the "not".

Despite the change in the Question, the Answer is still "No", Sir.

How is it that in most districts the price the householder has to pay is nearly £3 to £4 more than the pithead price? Surely there is some exploitation. If the job can be done directly from the pits, as used to be done in Northumberland for their own men, why cannot the Coal Board do it and give the housewives their coal a little cheaper and provide more employment for the men in the coalfields?

I have not been informed that the prices charged by the National Coal Board selling direct are substantially different from the prices charged by other coal merchants and other distributors.

Will the right hon. Gentleman investigate the position?

I will investigate any proposals the National Coal Board puts to me about the desirability of extending its selling organisation, but so far I have not had any proposals. If they are made I will look at them.

asked the Minister of Power if he is aware of the rapidly deteriorating position with regard to the availability of household coal; and if he will make a statement upon the situation and the prospects for the next two months.

asked the Minister of Power if he will make a statement on the present general difficulty in obtaining household coal and the prospects of its alleviation.

asked the Minister of Power if he is aware that retail organisations are experiencing difficulty in getting supplies of household coal; what is the cause of this difficulty; and whether he will make a statement.

There is no general shortage of house coal, but transport difficulties may cause certain local difficulties.

I appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman has said, but does he not appreciate the widespread feeling of anger in homes in the London area because they cannot get coal? Is he further aware that this morning coal merchants told me that coal which had left Midland collieries on 4th December had not yet been delivered in south-east London? Cannot something be done about this? Otherwise there will be a terrible shortage in the next week or two.

I am told that merchants' stocks at this moment are just about normal; they are just about the same as they were in other years.

indicated dissent.

The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but I have the figures and they are higher than they were two years ago and a little bit lower than they were last year. The problem of distribution below that is not a matter for me. It is a matter for the National Coal Board, which deals with the local distribution of coal. If the hon. Gentleman has difficulties, I hope he will get in touch with the Board.

Is the Minister correct in saying that this is a problem for the National Coal Board? Would he not agree that part of the trouble at least arises from the fact that merchants are still using old-fashioned methods of shovelling coal out of coal trucks? At present there are coal trucks in sidings which have been standing for days on end while this archaic method is being employed. Surely the time has come to get a proper system of distribution at the merchant's end, which is primarily the cause of the trouble.

I maintain the position that those are matters for the National Coal Board and not for me. I hope that the remarks of the hon. Gentleman will be drawn to the attention of the Board.

Is the Minister aware that this is not a question of coal production but primarily one of coal distribution? Is he also aware that consumers are now waiting four or five weeks for supplies? Does he not recognise that this has now reached the point where there is a real bottleneck? Will he not take this matter up with his colleague to see whether it can be resolved speedily?

I will certainly speak to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport about the transport side of this difficulty, but in fact the National Coal Board and the British Transport Commission are in close touch with each other. The real difficulty is that there is a shortage of suitable operating staff I or the wagons that are available.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is the intention of the Government to implement some of the proposals in the Robson Committee's Report for improving efficiency in coal distribution? That Report has been available for some time and we have heard nothing about whether the Government intend to implement some of its proposals.

I will certainly answer a question about the implementation of the Report, but I would like a Question to be put on the Order Paper.

rose—

On a point of order. May we have a supplementary question from this side of the House, Mr. Speaker?

If the hon. Lady wants to know something, perhaps she will put down a Question. I am under pressure from the House to get on with Questions.

asked the Minister of Power (1) if he will state the amount of the liability transferred to the National Coal Board from the Coal Commission set up under the Coal Act, 1938, when coal deposits became public property;

The amount of the liability was £78,457,089. The yearly rate of interest paid is 2½ per cent.

What is the present liability twelve or thirteen years since vesting date?

I would not like to answer that off the cuff. I think the hon. Gentleman has put down a Written Question to which he will be receiving an Answer.

It was not a Written Question when I put it down, but because of the change in procedure since last Monday it has become a Written Question.

Yes, it has become a Written Question.

Does the Minister realise that a figure of £78 million is not the actual figure? The burden on the National Coal Board is greater than that. The National Coal Board has since then had to accept extra liabilities which should have been placed on the former owners, so that the total burden is not £78 million but £78 million plus the extra burden.

I take the right hon. Gentleman's point, but in fact this was an ordinary liability placed on any business which operates with borrowed capital. I do not think there can be any question about the rectitude of this figure or the moderate rate of interest at which it has to be repaid.

The cost of buying out the royalty owners was just over £66 million. How does it come about that the transference of the liability on vesting date was £78 million? Why the difference between £66 million and £78 million, without admitting the morality of what was done in 1938?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the extent of the liability was fixed in 1946, under the Coal Industry Nationalisation Act, for which the hon. Gentleman and his friends were responsible.

asked the Minister of Aviation, as representing the Minister for Science, whether he will make a statement on the Government's future policy towards space research.

asked the Minister of Aviation, as representing the Minister for Science, whether it is the policy of the Government to increase space research in the United Kingdom; what discussions he has had with other British Commonwealth Governments on this subject, with a view to obtaining their co-operation; and if he will make a statement.

Our general policy towards space research was explained in statements made by the Prime Minister on 12th May last and by the Minister of Supply on 29th July.

While welcoming the Government's tentative start in space research, may I ask my right hon. Friend, as the mouthpiece of my noble Friend the Minister for Science, whether it is true that our ultimate space research programme depends upon a few Blue Streaks falling from the rich man's table and whether, in his capacity as Minister of Aviation, my right hon. Friend can tell the House whether the rich man will in due course make a few Blue Streaks available for our space research programme?

On the subject of Blue Streak, the Defence White Paper will be the mouthpiece of the Government and will be published tomorrow.

When does the Minister hope that we will be in a position to undertake our own independent space research programme?

We have first to complete the development of our own ballistic rocket.

Does the Minister realise that many scientists and engineers of a practical nature, as distinct from those members of the Royal Society who advise him, are extremely worried that if we do not soon begin to spend something of the order of £20 million a year in space research, we will be left behind in this branch of technology by Russia and America, with consequent suffering to our exports in the engineering and scientific field? Will the Government stop fiddling about with sums of £100,000 or £200,000 and get on with it?

The expenditure in the first case will be modest, but as the programme develops I have no doubt that it will increase. I did not like the hon. Member's disparaging remarks about the Royal Society.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will make a statement about the reorganisation of the aircraft industry and the ordering of civil and military aircraft.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he is now in a position to make a further statement on the organisation of the aircraft industry.

With permission, I will answer these Questions at the end of Questions.

asked the Minister of Aviation what discussions he has had with Service Ministers of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and Commonwealth countries on the sale to them of the Lightning fighter now coming into the Royal Air Force.

The sale of the Lightning fighter overseas is in the first place a matter for the company concerned, but my right hon. Friend, as well as the former Minister of Supply, has had various discussions with Defence Ministers of allied countries about the possibility of the Lightning meeting their fighter requirements.

Is it not a fact that the American Government give far greater support and drive to their aircraft firms when trying to sell machines to our allies? Why cannot we do something as significant as the American firms in pressing the sale of a first-rate fighter like this?

We do press these sales. Of course, as the hon. Member knows, the Lightning is entirely paid for by the Government. We make facilities available for providing information and advice and by making aircraft available for demonstrations. It is not fair to say that the Government are not doing all they can to promote sales.

asked the Minister of Aviation what research is being undertaken into the development of large fire extinguishers which, in the event of an aircraft crashing within the control radius of an airfield, can be launched by rocket on a beam to blanket the aircraft with foam.

Research into various methods of extinguishing aircraft fires is being undertaken. I am aware that an airborne device has been suggested, but the particular method proposed does not show sufficient promise to justify support.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary consider what has been done in the United States in this direction and also the details recently published by the Fire Brigades Union of a scheme along these lines?

I understand that this idea has been considered in the United States, but at the moment it is purely a study project and no research or development has taken place. I am informed that there are considerable technical difficulties.

asked the Minister of Aviation when the Rotodyne will be in service; how many have been ordered for civil and military use; and what arrangements have been made with Westland Aircraft, Limited, to recoup the Government for their £4 million development contribution from I he future sales of the Rotodyne.

As I informed the House last week, a contract for the further development of the Rotodyne has now been signed. Meanwhile, work has, of course, been proceeding.

As the company now making the Rotodyne has a virtual monopoly of helicopter manufacture in this country, could not the Minister be a little more forthcoming on the amount that the Government hope to get out of this deal in view of the fact that we are making a large contribution to the profitability of it?

It will, of course, depend upon sales.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will make a statement about discussions that have been taking place to enable internationally agreed air fares to be fixed on air routes other than within Europe, between Europe and South America and between North and South America, before 1st April.

Following informal discussions among airlines, a further conference of the International Air Transport Association will be held in Paris next week.

From his knowledge of the situation, does the right hon. Gentleman hold out any hope that agreement is likely before 1st April, or will there be a free-for-all after that date?

All I know is that the International Association earlier decided not to hold any further conference unless the prospects of agreement were reasonably good.

asked the Minister of Aviation the general conditions under which research and development contracts are given by his Department to firms in the aircraft industry in respect of repayment out of subsequent sales, financial participation by the firms and safeguards to ensure that the sums provided by his Department are not excessive

The present arrangements for the sharing by the Government in the proceeds of commercial sales of aircraft developed with Government assistance are set out in paragraphs 26 to 31 of the Third Report of the Committee of Public Accounts for 1956–57, and in paragraphs 17 to 20 of their Third Report for 1957–58.

Can the Minister say whether there has been any change in Government policy since he has been appointed Minister of Aviation and the new post has been created? It has been suggested in usually informed circles and reported in the Press that the Government are now more willing to pay development costs to the companies that have joined in these various mergers than was the case when the Ministry of Supply was responsible. Is there any truth in this?

I am giving a longish Answer to two Questions on this subject at the end of Question Time.

asked the Minister of Aviation if, in view of the recent announcement of mergers in the aircraft industry, he will give an assurance that the position of Short Bros. and Harland will not be overlooked; and if he will make a statement.

The Government well understand the importance of the aircraft industry in the economy of Northern Ireland; and I can assure my hon. Friend that I shall closely watch the position of Shorts. Should there be any amalgamation proposals affecting the company, I shall, of course, consult the Government of Northern Ireland.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, I would like to ask whether he is aware of the acute anxiety which has been caused by the recent announcement of further redundancies this year in view of the shortage of similar employment opportunities for skilled engineers in Northern Ireland. Is my right hon. Friend aware that men employed by Short Bros. and Harland are willing and ready to work long and hard so that they can compete successfully with any other firm or group of firms, either in the United Kingdom or elsewhere in the world?

I am well aware of the fine record of Short Bros.

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that Short Bros. and Harland might well be strengthened if they merged with another group? As this company is understood to have made losses over a number of years, will my right hon. Friend confirm that he has an open mind and will facilitate a merger if others wish it?

In view of the special position of Short Bros., I have not sought to encourage an amalgamation affecting that company as yet, but I will watch the position.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will allow information collected about sound pressure levels at London Airport to be given to local authorities and residents' associations.

There are advantages and disadvantages in this procedure and my right hon. Friend is at present considering the matter.

Will the Minister bear in mind when consideration is being given to this matter that the Port of New York not only monitors sound pressure levels daily, but actually circulates them to and discusses them with the residents' associations? As many hundreds of thousands of people are interested, would not this be a useful thing to do here?

We are aware of that. It will be one of the matters of which account will be taken.

asked the Minister of Aviation what form are the noise trials taking in relation to the request by British European Airways to fly Comet 4B aircraft to and from London Airport at night.

Sound recordings are being taken of test flights of Comet 4B aircraft with varying loads during daylight hours.

Will the Minister in due course be taking some readings at night as well, and, if so, will he be good enough to give advance warning when this will happen, and will he be good enough to have some of his decibel recording machines placed in various parts of Heston, Hounslow and Osterley, not merely on the edge of London Airport? Thirdly, will he be good enough not to make a decision till he has been able to make some tests in the height of summer, when the noise of an aeroplane going overhead is three times as loud as it is on a rather wet winter's night?

My hon. Friend asks a lot of things. First of all, as to the taking of tests at night, we are rather hoping to get the information we need without disturbing the residents at night, but if it is necessary night tests will be made. I am afraid I cannot remember the other questions my hon. Friend asked.

Will the Minister make sure that these test trials are completed satisfactorily in the interests of the local residents? I have already had a number of letters from my constituents, as other local Members of Parliament have, against this proposed night flying by B.E.A. because they feel that if the permission is granted to B.E.A. other airline operators will also apply for it and get it.

It is precisely because I am concerned about the interests of the residents that I have arranged for these tests to be made. In reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Heston and Isleworth (Mr. R. Harris), who asked whether these tests could be made out- side the immediate vicinity of London Airport, they are, of course, being made at a number of places.

asked the Minister of Aviation what requests he has received from the users of Boeing jet aircraft for permission to operate these aircraft at night from London Airport.

I have received no request for services with Boeing 707 aircraft to be scheduled between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m.

Would the Minister hear in mind that everybody living within a few miles of London Airport would regard a decision by him to allow Comets to fly at night as the thin end of the wedge to allowing Boeings to fly at night? That is the impression. If he will give an assurance that he will not allow Boeings to fly at night, that will be a step in the right direction.

Every case will have to be judged in relation to the noise made.

asked the Minister of Aviation the total number of full emergency landings and local standby landings at London Airport during the period 1st June, 1958, to 30th April. 1959.

The total number of full emergency and local standbys at London Airport during the period 1st June, 1958, to 30th April, 1959, is as follows:

Is there any reason why this information should not be made available to local authorities and local residents' associations? Is the Minister aware that the only reason why I had to put down the Question was that information for this period was refused by the authorities at London Airport, although previously they had given the information for other periods?

As the hon. Member knows, we try to give local authorities and residents' associations as much information as possible. At the moment, we do not feel that this information would serve any useful purpose.

asked the Minister of Health if he will make a statement in respect of the investigation into the deficiency in the accounts for patients' money at the De la Pole Mental Hospital.

The police and auditors' investigations are still proceeding, and all I can say at present is that two members of the nursing staff have been convicted at Hull Magistrates Court for offences relating to the deficiency in patients' money.

While thanking the Minister for what he has said, but regretting the nature of it, may I ask him to bear in mind the fact that I have complained bitterly on a number of occasions in the past about the slackness in some mental hospitals in dealing with patients' money? Is he satisfied that the best systems are introduced to obviate this sort of thing as far as possible and to give the patients a deeper sense of justice in financial matters?

My auditors are considering, in conjunction with the hospital management committee, further steps which can be taken to minimise the risk of any such occurrence in future. Meanwhile, I should like to make it clear to the hon. Member and to the House generally that patients who entrusted their money for safe custody will, of course, in no way suffer.

asked the Minister of Health how many beds reserved for mentally defective patients in institutions controlled by the South-East Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board are out of commission because of shortage of staff.

173.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the number of these beds is almost exactly equal to the number of mentally sick children on the waiting list for admission to these hospitals? Can he assure me that every step is being taken to try to recruit the necessary staff?

Yes, every step that is possible has been taken. I think my hon. Friend will be glad to hear that, since last September, the board has been able to open 37 more beds in this hospital where the shortage arises.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the prevailing uncertainty as to the future of the post of medical superintendent in the mental hospital service; and whether he will make a statement on the action he proposes to take in the matter.

I am considering this matter and hope to be able to make a statement in the very near future.

While thanking my right hon. and learned Friend for his reply, may I draw to his attention the fact that in at any rate one hospital, about which I can send him particulars, this uncertainty has had deleterious effects? Is he aware that it will be of immense benefit to the service as a whole if he can clarify the future, whatever it may be?

Yes, I do appreciate what my hon. Friend has said. At the same time, I am sure he will appreciate that this is a difficult problem, and that I have deliberately not rushed a decision because I have been anxious to take into account all the expressions of view which have been made to me since we had our very interesting discussions on this matter in general terms in Committee on the Mental Health Bill.

As the Minister knows, there are widely differing views about this matter, and while I am not asking him to be too rigid in the advice he gives, may I ask him if he will bear in mind that the regional boards and hospital management committees will need some fairly definite guidance from the Minister on this very difficult matter?

I do appreciate that. Of course, the position is that by reason of the passage of the Mental Health Act, as the hon. Gentleman will know, the Superintendents of Mental Hospitals Regulations, which up to now have governed the position, cannot stand in their present form, so we have to work out a new pattern as best we may.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the difficulty that exists in recruiting hospital pharmacists at the present time; and what steps he proposes to take to remedy this situation.

I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, Central (Dr. Stross) on 14th December, 1959. Following negotiations on the Pharmaceutical Whitley Council new salary scales giving increases from 13 per cent. to 17 per cent. have been agreed for hospital pharmacists with effect from 1st January, 1960. In addition to the new salary scales special allowances have been introduced for the first time for pharmacists appointed to posts involving responsibility for the co-ordination of the pharmaceutical services of hospital groups.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has yet received the report of the inquiry by the Board of Control into the escape of Leslie Parr from Broadmoor Institution on 1st January, 1960; whether he will make the report public; and whether he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The report, which I do not consider it would be appropriate to publish, deals particularly with the circumstances under which patients should be allowed to work outside the walls of the Institution. Work of this type is an important last step in the rehabilitation of patients for return to the community, but it is of course essential that there should be proper security arrangements. With this in mind, the report recommends

In view of the very widespread anxiety which is caused to my constituents when a patient escapes from Broadmoor, may I ask my right hon. and learned Friend whether he realises that what he has said will be received with very wide approval? Would he say whether the report or his consideration covers the effectiveness of the warning siren? Would he also say whether he can give some categorical assurance to counteract the feeling in my constituency that, under the present administration of Broadmoor, where there is a balance of doubt it is given to the patient rather than to the security of those living around the institution?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend for what he said in the first part of his supplementary question. As to the second part, the present siren is the result of much research and expenditure, and I think that it is the best that can be devised.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend realise that there is concern not only in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee) but in the whole of Berkshire that an assurance is always given that security will be tightened up after there has been an escape and yet these escapes continue.

I associate my hon. Friend with the tribute which I paid to my hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee) with regard to his zeal for the well-being of his constituents, but we have to keep these things in balance and perspective. As he will see from the figures I have just given, the escapes from the working parties have been very rare and not attended with danger. The working parties are an essential traditional part of the valuable work of rehabilitation.

asked the Minister of Health when the Professional and Technical B Whitley Council began their current consideration of the wages and conditions of hospital maintenance staffs; and when a recommendation is expected.

The claim currently under consideration in respect of hospital engineers was submitted by the staff side in January, 1959, and rejected by the management side, after making inquiries, in June, 1959. The Industrial Court, in November, 1959, awarded increases of about 5 per cent. but left certain matters for further discussion between the two Sides. As agreement has not been reached the Court is being asked to determine the difference.

Does an arbitration award require the Minister's approval? If it does, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give an assurance that he will give that approval promptly or make a decision promptly?

If it requires my approval—and I should not like to say off the cuff whether or no it does—it will have it.

asked the Minister of Health to what extent he contemplates modifying the system of accountancy as it affects hospitals under his control.

I have not in mind at present any substantial modification of hospitals' accounting arrangements.

Does not the Minister agree that the present system does not offer any inducement to prudent spending? Does he further agree that if a hospital wants to purchase any expensive apparatus or erect additional buildings the present system does not allow it to carry forward any moneys from one year to the next?

I am afraid that that is a matter which is rather beyond the scope of hospital accounting procedure. The point made by the hon. Member is one which is related to our constitutional system here of annual accounting for public moneys which, as he will know, derives in turn from Parliamentary responsibility for moneys.

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the fact that hospital cadets have had no increase in pay since 1957, despite the award to nurses in March 1959, he will amend the maximum scales of pay for such staff in order to enable regional hospital boards to increase their salaries.

I have this matter under consideration.

While thanking the right hon. and learned Gentleman for his reply, may I ask whether he is aware that it has been the normal practice up to now for the hospital cadets to receive an increase when the nurses receive one but that they missed the last increase which the nurses received? Would the Minister, therefore, give this matter further and sympathetic consideration, because this is an excellent way of recruiting to nursing? We have found in Blackburn that all the cadets up to now have gone on to nursing. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman comes to a favourable decision, will he back-date the payments to the date of the last award made to nurses?

I understand that there is not an automatic link between the movements in the pay of cadets and those in the pay of nurses, but I will certainly check the history of the matter as the hon. Lady asks, and I entirely agree with her that these girls do excellent work.

asked the Minister of Health how many junior medical posts in the hospitals of the United Kingdom are filled by doctors from the Commonwealth.

I regret that the information is not available

Is the Minister aware that there is an acute shortage of senior medical staff in our hospitals in the north of England? Is he further aware that if it were not for these students from the Commonwealth our hospital services would break down?

We derive much benefit from the presence of these Commonwealth doctors amongst us, most of whom are engaged in post-graduate training but incidentally make a valuable contribution. Junior medical staffs have increased in number by a little over 26 per cent. since 1951 and, as the hon. Member knows, I have set up a working party to look into medical staffing structure in the hospital services, and the party is hard at work.

Will the Minister pay particular attention to hospitals in the West Riding with emphasis on the General Hospital in Wakefield, where I understand the position is parlous indeed?

I will certainly take account of the position of this hospital, together with that of others.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the shortage of nurses at the Cotswold Hospital at Tetbury; and what steps he has taken, and now proposes to take, to remedy this shortage.

Yes, Sir. The hospital management committee is continuing its efforts to secure more staff at this hospital and, to help in relieving the shortage, my right hon. and learned Friend has agreed with its proposal to appoint an agency nurse.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the last part of her answer will be received with considerable satisfaction? However, in view of the continuous difficulty of staffing hospitals for old people—a rather unrewarding form of nursing—will she review the position?

I will put the last point to my right hon. and learned Friend, but the difficulty here arises because the hospital is isolated. In those circumstances, my right hon. and learned Friend is prepared to approve the employment of an agency nurse, as he has done on previous occasions, in order to help the hospital.

May I point out that, far from being isolated, the hospital is in the middle of Tetbury?

I know Tetbury and I would not regard it as a very large place.

asked the Minister of Health why he has refused to allow regional hospital boards and hospital management committees to insure members of their staff when carrying cash.

It is contrary to Government policy to insure against risks of this kind in the public service. Compensation payments may however be made in appropriate cases in accordance with the National Health Service Superannuation Regulations, or otherwise an ex gratia payment can be made if the circumstances warrant it.

Would my hon. Friend look at the matter again, bearing in mind that these people are employees of regional hospital boards and hospital management committees which are anxious, very properly, to protect their employees during the course of their work? Does she not realise that this basis is not satisfactory because, without putting it too strongly, Government Departments are not the speediest or the most generous in the payment of compensation?

It is the general practice for the Exchequer to carry its own risk. I am not aware of any instance in which a hospital pay clerk has been killed or seriously injured in the course of his duties. If there were such incident, the superannuation provisions or the ex gratia arrangements would apply.

Is the hon. Lady not aware that there have been violent attacks on the pay staffs of hospital authorities and that there was one in the London area not long ago? Will she ask her right hon. and learned Friend to look again at the matter and not make it impossible for hospital authorities to behave as good and reasonable employers?

I will certainly ask my right hon. and learned Friend to look at the matter, but this has been the general practice since the inception of the National Health Service.

asked the Minister of Health which regional hospital boards were responsible for the underspending of £649,000 in the advances on capital account during the financial year 1959–60, indicated on page 87 of the recently-issued Supplementary Estimates.

All boards, except Oxford Regional Hospital Board, expect to underspend on major capital schemes and this accounts almost entirely for the total estimated underspending.

Does the Minister realise that there is considerable mystification in the minds of at any rate a number of hospital boards about underspending, which feel that if only they were given the chance to spend the money earlier they could spend it twice over? Certainly the South Western Regional Hospital Board could do so.

As I have said before, I am continuously trying to give longer and longer notice of capital schemes in order to meet the point to which my hon. Friend has referred.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to encourage more people to become dentists.

There is at present no shortage of recruits to the dental pro- fession and the dental schools are virtually full. Measures have been taken to implement all the main recommendations of the McNair Report on Recruitment to the Dental Profession.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that what I am concerned about is the short-term position of the supply of dentists, which is causing such a serious position to arise in the school dental service? Would not one way of alleviating this position be to encourage more dentists from the surplus of dentists at present on the Continent to apply for temporary service in this country?

There is nothing to prevent foreign dentists practising in this country, provided they obtain title to registration. Indeed, under Section 16 (2) of the Dentists Act, 1956, a foreign practitioner qualifies for registration provided he satisfies the General Dental Council that he is of good character, holds a foreign diploma and has the requisite knowledge and skill.

As the Report on Recruitment to the Dental Profession mentioned that this profession is particularly suitable for women, could the right hon. and learned Gentleman say approximately how many of the recruits are women?

Not without notice, but I will get the information for the right hon. Lady.

asked the Minister of Health why he has refused to supply Mr. T. Welsh, of Blackburn, with an invalid motor tricycle, despite the fact that he has had his right leg amputated in the upper third and suffers from gunshot wounds in the left thigh.

Because his walking ability is fortunately not so restricted as to make him eligible.

Is the hon. Lady aware that that is an absolutely outrageous reply? Does she not agree that this man has told her, as he has told me, that he cannot walk as much as 400 yards without severe pain? Is she aware that he is employed at a Remploy factory and that he has no means of getting there in wintry weather on icy roads except by foot and that he is in severe pain when he arrives at work? If this is not adequate ground for giving this mechanical assistance, can the hon. Lady think of any better?

I certainly do not agree with the right hon. Lady's criticism. When she wrote to me about this man last December, I arranged for him to be medically re-examined. He has had one leg amputated, but the result of the examination showed that, although his sound leg tends to drag, he can walk quite well.

With pain.

As the right hon. Lady said, he has since been found employment at a Remploy factory which, I am told, is near his home and within his walking distance.

Can the hon. Lady recall other cases similar to this being drawn to her attention? Whilst I am sure that hon. Members on both sides of the House recognise that these injuries are not necessarily those laid down in the regulations, nevertheless these men who were injured during the war have now reached middle age and the increasing strain on a middle-aged man who has had one leg amputated and the other injured is very great. It cannot be assessed in surgical or medical terms, but nevertheless it is there. May I ask the hon. Lady to ask her right hon. and learned Friend whether he will reconsider this and similar cases which can only be very few in number?

The question of transport facilities for the war-disabled pensioner is still under consideration, as I have told the House before, but in particular instances—and I take the point made flat they are now increasing in age—cases can be re-examined, as was done in this case with which I have just been dealing.

asked the Minister of Health what recommendations have been made to him by the Drug Addiction Committee on the control of the sale of Persomnia.

The active ingredients of Persomnia fall within the group of substances referred to in my reply to Questions by the hon. Members for Swindon (Mr. F. Noel-Baker) and Barking (Mr. Driberg) on 7th December and in that of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department to a Question by the hon. Member for Dartford (Mr. Sydney Irving) on 11th February.

Am I to take it that the right hon. and learned Gentleman proposes to carry out the recommendation of the Drug Addiction Committee and to make Persomnia available to the public only on the prescription of a doctor?

I understand from my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary that the ingredients are covered by the recommendations made to him by the Poisons Board, and that this preparation is therefore amongst those of which he proposes to restrict the supply only on prescription.

asked the Minister of Health if he has studied the communication recently sent to him enclosing a copy of a warning given by the Co-operative Union to co-operative chemists, requesting them to sell Preludin, Persomnia, Relaxa, Menopax, and Miltown, only on a doctor's prescription or on the advice of a qualified chemist: and what reply he has sent.

I have received this communication and am glad to know of the action taken by the Co-operative Union, which is similar to that taken by the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain last August.

Is the Minister aware that there is considerable public confusion about whether "pep" pills are on sale freely at chemists or not? Also, can the Minister say what there is to prevent him, when he puts these pills on the Schedule 4 list, as I believe it is called, referring to them by their popular names as well as by the normal medical formula?

This procedure operates under the Poisons Act of 1933. As the hon. Lady will know, this is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary rather than for me, but I am sure that he will take note of what she had said.

Is it not the case that some "pep" pills and drugs do not come under the Poisons Act? Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman then not responsible for ensuring that they are made available only on medical prescription?

The control of these drugs falls under three Statutes: the Dangerous Drugs Act, the Poisons Act—for both of which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is responsible—and the Therapeutic Substances Act, for which I am responsible. Having studied this question, I have come to the conclusion that it is only less complex than the Rent Restriction Acts, and therefore we are engaged in reviewing the whole matter.

Is the Minister aware that the country is being flooded with drugs of addiction, many being put on the market by firms which have their main offices in America? Is the Minister going to wait for the Pharmaceutical Society and the Co-operative Union to take action and, as he says, become tangled in the maze of Statutes, until a number of tragedies take place, such as occurred in the case of Preludin, before he himself takes action?

No. Sir. In answer to the hon. Gentleman's question, I was referring to the general position and I gave a brief summary of the legislation on this matter which, as the right hon. Lady knows, is complicated. We are reviewing the whole position in order to simplify and improve it. The particular matter to which she has referred, as I said in answer to the hon. Lady the Member for Wood Green (Mrs. Butler), is governed by the Poisons Act, in respect of which my right hon. Friend is taking prompt and effective action.

I understood the Minister to say that the complexities of the situation resemble those of the Rent Restriction Acts and that therefore he is reviewing them. Are we to understand that the Government are reviewing the Rent Restriction Acts?

In making that comparison, I had in mind less my sphere of responsibility as a Member of the Government than certain forensic memories of the past when I had to inter- pret these matters for the benefit of my clients. It was only in this sense that I made the comparison.

asked the Minister of Health why fees paid to opticians for prescriptions for private frames dispensed with National Health lenses have been reduced; whether he is aware that there is widespread dissatisfaction amongst opticians as to his decision, particularly as the recommendations of the Whitley Council have been overridden; and if he will reconsider the matter.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Dr. D. Johnson) on 4th February.

Is the Minister aware that the dispensing fee now is lower than that agreed in 1948, and in view of the resentment in the profession caused by this fact, will he look at the matter again?

My hon. Friend will know that there is a long and complex history of this matter. Shortly, this is part of a tripartite offer which was made to the opticians. The part which benefited them—that is to say, the increased sight testing fee—was introduced as long ago as 1st January, 1959. This part—the hybrid fee, as it is called—was introduced only on 1st January last. I deferred it as long as was possible.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the strength of the feeling that they have been harshly dealt with which is held by a very worthy body of people? Will he not, therefore, reconsider the matter?

I realise that the opticians felt that the third part of the offer should not be put into effect, because they came and told me so and we discussed it in detail in November. I assure my hon. Friend that, having looked into the matter closely, I feel that the cut in the hybrid fee, which is in relation to National Health Service lenses dispensed in private frames, is justifiable and in accordance with the facts.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend not think that the low rate of profit which opticians receive from frames leads to the exploitation of the public, since they are unwilling to encourage members of the public to get these frames and instead make them pay for expensive ones?

There need be no such danger as my hon. Friend refers to because, if the patient so desires, there is available to him a range of National Health Service glasses with agreeable frames at an approximate cost of 30s. a pair.

Is it not the fact that opticians are more prosperous today than they have ever been?

I confirm the general conclusion that they are sharing in the present universal prosperity of the country.