asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what facilities exist in Northern Rhodesia for Africans to receive elementary training which will enable them to qualify for training as engineers or technical experts; what qualifications are required for such positions; and how many Africans receive training or qualify outside the territory.

As the Answer is long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

While I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for promising to circulate an Answer in the OFFICIAL REPORT, may I say that I hope it will be rather more instructive than previous Answers have been and indicative of a very much greater effort in this direction than there has been in the past? After all, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is not much good our complaining about the activities of the European Mineworkers' Union on behalf of the Africans whilst we are doing so little ourselves?

It is a very detailed Answer giving all the information that I have, and if the hon. Member would like to raise other points on it perhaps when he has studied it he might like to come to see me.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what assistance is given by his Department to encourage students and teachers, respectively, to participate in exchange or other schemes in Colonial Territories; and what is the number of each, respectively, who have taken part in such schemes in the year 1958–59.

There are no exchange schemes. But about 17,000 students from Colonial Territories were studying in the United Kingdom during 1958–59 and in 1959 the Colonial Office alone recruited 257 teachers for service in Colonial Territories.

While thanking the Minister for that Answer, may I ask him whether, now that a number of universities are developing in Colonial Territories, he does not think it very important that the exchange of students should take place in other directions as well? Will the right hon. Gentleman do something positive about that, because my impression at the moment is that very few British students do, in fact, go to universities in the Colonies?

I agree that in the future this is a development that we would like to see; we would like to see a two-way traffic develop. We help in one small way through Colonial Development and Welfare grant to one organisation, and if there are other ways of helping I shall be very glad to study them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why applications for passport renewals or endorsements from British subjects and British protected persons from British Colonial Territories, now temporarily resident in this country, are referred to the Governors of the Territories concerned, so causing unnecessary delays and annoyance to the persons concerned and whether he will take steps to discontinue this practice and simplify the procedure for such passport endorsements.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will discontinue the practice of referring to Governors of Colonial Territories in Africa applications for endorsements of passports held by Africans temporarily resident in this country.

The power to issue passports under Royal prerogative to persons belonging to Colonial Territories is legally and constitutionally vested in the Governments of those Territories. It follows therefore that the renewal or endorsement of passports is also a matter for their discretion, with which by longstanding practice my predecessors have not interfered. I do not propose to depart from that practice.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this bureaucratic system leads, very often, to quite unnecessary delays and that the second part of his reply indicates that there is political discrimination? As an illustration of that discrimination, will the hon. Gentleman ask his right hon. Friend to look again at the case of Mr. Manda, a very responsible person from Nyasaland, who was prevented from going on a visit to Tunis by an unnecesary delay in his application being endorsed?

I believe that Mr. Manda's case was cleared by telegrams. I do not think that the delay was excessive. I do not think that this is a case of bureaucratic interference. The more self-government a Colonial Government have the more it must be left to their discretion what they do in the issue of passports.

Is it not monstrous that a British citizen in this country should be denied freedom of travel, which is the right of any other person in this country? Is the Minister aware of the case of Mr. W. D. Colley, which I raised with him in December? Mr. Colley applied for a passport to go to Gambia in June, but did not receive a reply until 31st July, when he was told that he could have a temporary passport provided he gave the reasons and proof of where he was going and why—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."] Also, does not the Minister think that the liberties of people under the control of this House are important enough to discuss in full?

In reply to the hon. Member's first point, I am sure that he will appreciate that, as self-government increases, certain powers must necessarily be more and more delegated to the Governments of the Territories concerned. I will gladly look further into the case of Mr. Colley, which he has sent to me, but Mr. Colley was offered certain facilities of which he did not choose to avail himself.

How does the hon. Member's point about self-government apply to Nyasaland?

I think that that is a very different question. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] It is not such a difficult question, but a different question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what official representatives from British Somaliland attended the Pan-Somali Conference at Mogadishu on 31st December last; and if he will make a statement.

The persons from the Somaliland Protectorate who attended the recent Conference in Mogadishu of the Pan-Somali National Movement did so as representatives of their political parties and not as official representatives of the Somaliland Protectorate Government.

Since Somalia will become independent in July of this year and British Somaliland will get responsible government later on, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he realises that a feeling is growing up that these two Territories may eventually form a viable unit? Has he given any thought to that aspect of the conference and its results?

We have certainly studied this possibility. Indeed, more than a year ago, on 9th February, my predecessor said that if after Somalia became independent there were a desire for such discussions we would facilitate them. That remains the position of Her Majesty's Government.

May I take it, then, that the right hon. Gentleman will give some encouragement to this movement?

The hon. Gentleman may take it, as I have said, that the position of Her Majesty's Government remains this February as it was last February.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why demonstrations on Labour Day and National days have been prohibited in Malta, especially in view of the fact that no incidents have occurred on these festivals for several years.

There is no such prohibition. During 1959 demonstrations were held on both May Day and National Day.

Is the Minister aware, that, according to my information from Malta, the conditions laid down for meetings and demonstrations are such as to make it almost impossible for a demonstration to be held? Is not it right that we should give these men every opportunity to express themselves in a democratic spirit in every way possible?

Yes, but the hon. Member asked a specific question—are demonstrations being prohibited? The answer is that not only is there no such prohibition but last year these demonstrations did take place.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why letters addressed to Mr. Dom Mintoff, former Prime Minister of Malta, are being opened by the authorities; and what authorisation, by warrant or otherwise, is required before such letters can be opened in Malta.

No letters addressed to Mr. Mintoff have been opened by the authorities in Malta. For this to be done a Governor's Warrant under the Seditious Propaganda (Prohibition) Ordinance would be required, and no such Warrant has been issued.

While I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman's assurance, which will be very well received elsewhere, may I ask him whether he is aware that Mr. Mintoff has received letters from Mr. Nehru and from the United Nations, both in new envelopes and both containing the note, "Found damaged and secured in the post", and that his suspicions, not unnaturally, have been aroused by these events?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why the police in Malta took a cine-camera film of the political demonstrations held on 8th December, 1959; who authorised this; what use is being made of the film; and whether he will make it available for Members of the House who wish to see it.

The police practice of taking films and photographs of gatherings which might possibly lead to disturbances originated over twenty years ago. They are taken only on the direct authority of the Commissioner of Police. The film taken on 8th December is being kept for record purposes and a copy can be made available for those Members of the House who may wish to see it.

I should like to thank the right hon. Gentleman very much for his reply, which will enable Members of this House to see the strength of feeling among the people of Malta about the policy which is being pursued.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) what assurances have been given to the Financial Secretary of Nyasaland as to the financial assistance which will be forthcoming from this country towards the cost of the emergency in Nyasaland;

Assistance is being provided to the Government of Nyasaland towards financing a programme to strengthen the provincial administration and the Police Force, which has been worked out since the emergency.

Is the Colonial Secretary aware that the Nyasaland Government have announced their intention of expanding the Police Force so as to provide one policeman to every 850 inhabitants, as compared with one policeman to every 1,500 inhabitants in this country, and this at a time when barely half the children in Nyasaland are receiving any education at all in schools? Would not it be far better (a) to abolish the emergency and to save British taxpayers' money, and (b) to see that British taxpayers' money is spent on educating the people of Nyasaland instead of repressing them?

No. I think anybody who studies the situation would agree that the police force in Nyasaland was far too small. It is not being expanded wholly as a result of the emergency. It is quite true, as the hon. Lady says, that after this expansion has taken place there will be one policeman to every 850 people. Before that the figure was one policeman to every 1,420 people. In Northern Rhodesia, for example, there is one policeman to 537 people, and I do not think that anybody would suggest that this new expansion is one which will make the police force in Nyasaland relatively too large.

As this additional burden, of more than £1 million, is to be borne by the British taxpayer wholly as a result of the opposition of the people of Nyasaland to federation, may I ask the Colonial Secretary whether he proposes to make any approach to the Federal Government to see whether it is willing to bear part of the cost of this emergency for so much of which its policy is responsible?

I do not think that the hon. Member can have heard part of my answer to the supplementary question put by the hon. Lady the Member for Blackburn (Mrs. Castle). Quite apart from the emergency, the ratio of one to 1,420—as will be appreciated by the hon. Member who knows police matters very well indeed—indicates that the Police Force is far too small. Quite irrespective of the emergency, it would certainly be appropriate to increase the strength of the police force in Nyasaland.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what arrangements are being made to make available to the Southworth inquiry the evidence of journalists who were in Blantyre at the time of the Prime Minister's visit.

The editors of those newspapers and agencies whose correspondents were present on the occasion are being invited to make them available to give evidence before the Commission.

Does that mean that they will be sent to Nyasaland at the expense of Her Majesty's Government, or will Mr. Justice Southworth come to this country to take evidence?

No. The Governor has agreed that, if people wish to give evidence in person, their fares can be paid from Nyasaland public funds. Alternatively, it is possible for them, if they wish, to put in sworn statements.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what progress he has made in his promised consideration of the proposal that Dr. Banda should be transferred from a Federal prison to a place under his own control.

When Dr. Banda was first detained, the Governor of Nyasaland considered that his removal to a place outside Nyasaland was essential to the restoration of public order in the territory. In the Governor's opinion it would not be in the interests of public order to remove him to a place of detention in Nyasaland.

In that case, will the Colonial Secretary consider releasing him altogether?

The hon. and learned Gentleman must know that that is a point which has not escaped me.

Is the position really this: that the Government want to release Dr. Banda, Dr. Banda refuses to be released unless his compatriots accompany him, and the Governor says that he proposes to resign if the Government release him? Is there any chance of escaping from this muddle?

At the most, one of those three propositions is correct.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he is aware that the people of the Falkland Islands have been without the services of a qualified dentist since last April; and what action he is now taking to ensure the appointment of a suitable man.

It has proved very difficult to recruit dentists for the Falkland Islands but the Department is now in touch with two suitable dentists. An offer of appointment has been made to one of them and we are awaiting his reply.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that it is a serious matter that people in the Falkland Islands should be deprived of the services of a qualified dentist? If he cannot now make a permanent appointment, will he see that some qualified person is sent there as soon as possible to catch up with the arrears of work now outstanding?

We are doing the best we can. The idea is that someone should go for one-and-a-half years.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how frequently vessels of the Union Castle and Clan lines call at St. Helena; and what subsidy per ship is paid to the companies concerned.

Once a month in each direction. With effect from 1st January, 1960, a subsidy of £2,500 is paid per call at both St. Helena and Ascension Islands by a passenger ship and £1,000 per call by a cargo ship.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that one passenger vessel provides an income of £500 for the island where the population is extremely poor, and that therefore this is a major source of income? Would he consider having discussions with the shipping companies concerned to see whether more frequent calls can be made at St. Helena?

We have been looking at this matter. I can tell the hon. Member that it has not been easy even to make arrangements on the lines on which I have just spoken.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what constitutional developments are proposed for St. Helena.

The Governor has submitted to my right hon. Friend his proposals for a revision of the Advisory Council to include elected members. My right hon. Friend has now been able to consider these and is communicating his views to the Governor.

Can the Under-Secretary give an assurance that the elected members will be in the majority over the nominated members on the Council? Would he be good enough to say to which of the two Councils they are to be elected?

I think it would be wrong of me to disclose the exact details until the Governor has had an opportunity of commenting on my right hon. Friend's reply to him.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether it is intended that, wherever possible, any of these proposals shall be extended to Ascension which, at the moment, as he is aware, is under benevolent company dictatorship?

I cannot anticipate the reply of the Governor.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what current steps are being taken to review the need for building up local civil services in Africa.

A conference of senior officers from the African Territories will be held at the Colonial Office, under the chairmanship of the Permanent Under-Secretary of State, beginning on 1st March, to exchange information on the measures adopted in various Territories to build up the locally recruited element in their public services and to consider what further steps can be recommended to the Governments of the Territories to expedite this process, to which Her Majesty's Government attach very great importance.

I welcome that reply. May I ask my right hon. Friend whether overseas unofficial Ministers will be invited to attend this conference?

No, this is a conference of officials, and elected Ministers will not attend. But naturally I shall study the recommendations of the conference, as will the Governor and the Ministers who have responsibility in this sphere.

Is the Minister aware that we shall be very happy to give him our support in the arrangement of this conference and we hope that it will be successful?

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what reply has been given to the request of the Association of the Sons of the Pioneers of Fiji that a parliamentary delegation should be sent to act as observers at the inquiry that is to be conducted by the Chief Justice of Fiji into the recent disturbances in Suva, following the strike of oil workers.

Neither my right hon. Friend nor the Governor has received such a request.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this Association is the only one in Fiji in which the representation is part-European and the members want to give evidence before the Commission, but in the difficult racial position which now exists, they want it made clear to them that they will be given every assistance in giving evidence? May I ask whether that assistance will be provided?

We shall certainly give all reasonable assistance to all representative groups to express their views. The purpose of the Commission is to find out the facts and that is why the Chief Justice has been appointed to it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will arrange for the Bills, Regulations and enactments of Northern Rhodesia and of Nyasaland to be made available in the Library of the House of Commons immediately on publication.

I am always ready to make particular documents of interest to hon. Members available in the Library of the House, but it does not seem to me to be practicable to make the entire legislative proceedings of any Colonial Territory available in this way.

Cannot the Minister be a little more forthcoming? Does not he appreciate that during this critical period of development in Central Africa it is immensely important that this House should be kept up to date and fully acquainted with the legislative enactments carried out there? Does he appreciate that in the Public Security Bill provision is made for drastic measures, such as conscripting labour, and, in so doing, discriminating between black and white? Does not he further agree that it is extremely important that this House should be kept fully informed at the earliest possible moment about what is going on?

I am very ready to help the hon. and learned Member, or any hon. Member, on this matter, but it cannot be done in the way suggested by the hon. and learned Gentleman. I could not make the documents available immediately on publication because to do so I should have to have copies of them before they were published. But I do not think it right—because what I do for one Territory I should have to do for all the others—that we should try to keep under the microscope the individual legislative programmes of the thirty-eight Territories. That is against the whole theme of devolution of responsible Government from this House. On the other hand, I will try to help the hon. and learned Gentleman or any other hon. Members who would like special arrangements made for them in special circumstances, but I would not do this for all Territories, nor would I wish it to be a continuing process.

Does not the Minister appreciate that precisely for that reason and owing to the critical situation in Central Africa at the moment the Question was limited to Nyasaland and Northern Rhodesia? Would he not make a special arrangement owing to the special circumstances that apply there?

I fully understand that. If I were to do that for these Territories, I do not see how I could resist doing it for other Territories. I am very ready to consider whether the information that comes is adequate. I know the great interest of hon. Members in these matters, but I should like to leave it in this way. If an hon. Member would like information about a particular document, I will try to make it available to him or put it in the Library of the House. I will look into the question whether the main legislative enactments of particular Territories can be made available in the light of what the hon. and learned Member has said.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the progress of the Constitutional Conference on Kenya.

The main groups concerned have stated their position in relation to proposals which I have circulated to the Conference. Some measure of agreement was revealed, and I welcome this. The Conference has now gone into committee to consider safeguards and other outstanding matters. I hope to be able to make a full statement to the House in a few days.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that for a real solution to these very difficult problems it is necessary for the two major parties to agree to work the new constitution at least for a period of years and for the African elected members to agree to take part in the Government?

I have always sought a wide measure of agreement, and this is one of the reasons why the Conference has gone on so long. I think that it has been well worth the search. I am sure that we must try to seek agreement in Kenya. I am also sure that it would help if the African elected members were able to take part in the Government, but, of course, that is a matter for them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies why no women have been appointed to the Boards responsible for health and education in the Bahamas.

In making such appointments the Governor, in consultation with the Chairman of the Board concerned, selects those best fitted to serve irrespective of their sex.

Will the hon. Gentleman consult with the Governor in this matter? Is he aware that women have no vote in the Bahamas and do not sit in the Legislature? There is no reason why they should be completely deprived of any say in such matters as the health and education of children.

As the hon. Lady is no doubt aware, women have been appointed to other boards—for example, the visiting committee to schools and the child protection committee.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies the estimated cost of the damage in Mauritius due to the recent hurricane; and what arrangements are being made to finance the work of reconstruction.

My Answer last Thursday to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Rankin) set out the extent of the damage. Discussions with the Mauritius delegation have just begun and I am not yet able to make any statement about these.

Does my right hon. Friend think that there will be sufficient funds available from various sources to rehabilitate the island?

I am not ready to make a statement about that. There are four Ministers from Mauritius in this country at present and financial discussions are going on at the moment with my Department.

May we take it that, in view of the very heavy loss sustained by Mauritius, this initial payment of £15,000 will not be a final payment but that the Government will be much more generous when they see the extent of the financial loss?

The direct cost to the Government of Mauritius appears to be about £900,000. The proposals that have been put forward to Her Majesty's Government cover about £6½ million and, therefore, clearly go beyond the question of replacement and must be considered on the basis of comparative need as part of a reconstruction programme. As I have said, these discussions are going on, but I am afraid that I cannot anticipate their conclusion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what recent discussions there have been on the question of sea island cotton; and if he will make a statement on the present condition of that industry.

I understand that there were discussions in the West Indies in December. I am asking the Governor-General for information about the outcome, and for an assessment of the present condition of the industry. I will circulate the information in the OFFICIAL REPORT when I have his reply.

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman. Does not he agree that this is an industry which is being rather neglected as compared with, say, the sugar and citrus industries? Is he prepared to initiate those discussions?

I should like to get the full report from the Governor-General. I agree that the position of the industry has become serious with the drop in the price of long staple cotton.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will make a statement on the operation of the labour regulations in Hong Kong limiting hours of work of women and young persons, which came into operation on 1st January, 1959.

During the first six months of 1959 transitional provisions operated to give industrial employers the opportunity to adjust working conditions. The regulations are now being vigorously enforced. All factories maintain a register of women and young persons employed. A comprehensive system of inspection is aimed at ensuring that hours of work, meal breaks and rest days comply with the regulations and that there is proper reporting of overtime.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that the Colony's factory inspectorate is adequate to deal with the complex administrative problem of ensuring that each woman and young person has a rest day each week when the mills are operating on a seven-day week?

I hope we shall never be satisfied about these matters. Complacency is a very dangerous thing in a Government Department. The considerable number of prosecutions for evasion of the regulations should encourage the hon. Member to agree with me that the vigilance of the authorities is fairly good.

Can my hon. Friend say what powers the United Kingdom Government have over the Colony to insist that decent labour standards are observed in these factories?

The Colony's new regulations go a long way to improve the working conditions for women and young persons in comparison with what they used to be.

How many days a year are the women and children permitted to work under the new regulations?

Under the new regulations, overtime may be worked up to one hour a day or six hours a week within a limit of 100 hours a year and may not take place in any undertaking in more than twenty-five weeks in any year.

Did not the hon. Gentleman recognise, in answering his hon. Friend's supplementary question a moment or two ago, that there is a strong moral obligation on the Government of this country to exercise whatever powers they possess in this respect, since the result of this kind of labour condition in Hong Kong is materially to help the deterioration of the cotton industry in Lancashire, which the Government are doing nothing to assist?

As a Lancashire Member, I recognise the point, but the hon. Member would, I think, be the first to agree that there is also our duty to do as the trustees for Hong Kong.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when he proposes to take further steps to reduce the maximum hours of work of women and young persons in industrial establishments in Hong Kong, and so bring maximum hours into line with general Asian standards.

When the present regulations were introduced the Hong Kong Government made it clear that they were only a first step in its policy of raising minimum standards of employment. But the hon. Member will realise that the regulations have involved a major adjustment of working conditions in many undertakings. The problems of adjustment have already been overcome in all spinning mills and in more than half the larger weaving mills by changing over to 8-hour shifts. This process is spreading to other industries, but I am not yet in a position to forecast a date when maximum hours of work could be further reduced.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the maximum hours of work of women and young persons in India and Pakistan, now independent Commonwealth countries, are nine hours per day, whereas in Hong Kong even now they are ten hours a day, six days a week, with an average of two hours' overtime throughout the year? This means that the maximum legal hours of work of women and young persons in Hong Kong are still sixty-two hours a week with only four days' holiday a year. Having regard to the surplus of labour which exists in Hong Kong and to the very high profits that are made there, is it not the sensible and humane thing to reduce hours of work to general Asian standards?

As I have said, the present regulations introduced by the Hong Kong Government are regarded only as a first step; but it takes a little time to adjust the economy of the Hong Kong community to these new regulations.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies the number of refugees that have entered Hong Kong since January, 1959.

No figures are available.

Does the Minister realise that saturation point has already been reached in Hong Kong and that this is one of the main factors contributing to cheap labour in that part of the world? Does he not realise that we should know the exact position so that remedial measures may be taken?

We are well aware of the problem, but it is extremely difficult to control immigration into Hong Kong and almost impossible to get accurate figures of the position.

If the authorities in Hong Kong are unaware of the extent of the influx of refugees—in other words, they do not know the population of Hong Kong—how can the Hong Kong Government set about the task of arranging proper social services, labour standards and protective legislation, for which my hon. Friend the Member for Farnworth (Mr. Thornton) was ridiculed in this House when he came back with his shocking report some months ago?

The hon. Member must realise that there is a good deal of fluctuation in all this and that our statistics are naturally invalidated by the flow of immigration.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will reopen the car parking facilities on the north side of the Mall to relieve the continuing congestion of traffic in the Central London area.

No, Sir.

When thinking of the setting up of a comprehensive scheme of parking meters for the central area, will my hon. Friend consider reopening this little part under the trees temporarily during the summer months?

I assure my hon. Friend that we are being very co-operative, recognising the importance of the traffic problem. To help until the parking meters are available in parts of Mayfair, we have agreed for the Horse Guards Parade still to be available for parking.

Is the Minister aware that something like 60,000 cars come into Central London every day? If he thinks that that influx of cars is right and proper, when will he do something about accommodating them?

The particular part of London mentioned in the Question would not make all that difference. We co-operated in the Christmas arrangement and, as I have said, we are still leaving the Horse Guards Parade available for parking.

Is the Minister aware that the Horse Guards Parade and the Mall provide a very good car parking arrangement except for the fact that the facility terminates at 10 p.m.? Is he aware that if he wants to get cars off the streets in the West End of London, the time should be extended to 11 p.m. so that the theatre-going public can put their cars off the main streets and into the car parks?

That is a question for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport.

asked the Minister of Works when the work of restoring the gardens at Wrest Park, near Silsoe, Bedfordshire, commenced; when it will be completed; what is the total cost, including the wages bill, for the gardens up to the latest convenient date; what are the total receipts from admission charges; and how much did they cost to collect.

As the Answer is rather long, I will with permission circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

But does the Parliamentary Secretary deny that the facts will show a very sad state of affairs? Will he consider with his right hon. Friend seeking some advice from someone who knows something about this work, like the Duke of Bedford, or better still, in the interest of the taxpayers, appointing him Minister of Works?

I am rather glad that the hon. Member was able to ask that supplementary question, because I noticed in a newspaper that "Mr. Norman Brooks" was to ask this Question. Now I see that it was not Mr. Norman Brooks but the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Works when Iver Grove, Buckinghamshire, was bought by his Department with a view to opening it to the public; what was the purchase price; how much has been spent on the house and gardens; and what it is now proposed to do with it.

I would refer the hon. Member to my right hon. Friend's reply on 26th January, 1960, to the hon. Member for West Ham, North (Mr. A. Lewis). The property has now been sold to a private purchaser, subject to contract, and will be open to the public by appointment.

But is it not a fact that it was bought in 1956 for the public for £3,000 and that at a local inquiry the Government were warned that it would be a white elephant but the man from Westminster or Whitehall knew best? [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] That is what the Minister said. Does not this indicate that when it is all gone into and everything is taken into account, there will be a big debt for the taxpayer to bear once again?

The property will be open to the general public and any facility that this sort of property usually gives to the public will continue to be available. As to its value, the Historic Buildings Council has said that, after the proceeds of sale are credited, the net expenditure will have been justified. I am certain that the hon. Member will find that this property was worth while preserving in this way. It will be an asset to the nation and it will be open to the general public.

asked the Minister of Works if he will undertake to adopt free and open competitive tendering for all his Department's contracts, and the widest possible use of the usual channels for the securing of maximum public advertisement.

It is my Department's policy to place contracts for construction work after competitive tendering, but my right hon. Friend does not consider that advertising for an unlimited number of tenders is a satisfactory system. The system of inviting tenders from a selected list of approved firms is the one recommended by several independent committees since 1944 and was commended only a few months ago in the Code of Procedure for Selective Tendering published by the Joint Committee of Architects, Quantity Surveyors and Builders.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that if he does not give firms an opportunity to show what they can do his Department will never be in a position to know whether these firms are fit to do the work?

I can assure the hon. Member that any firm can get on to the Ministry's list of approved firms. If he has a firm in mind which he thinks ought to be on the list I shall be delighted to look into the matter.

May I say that I am very sorry that the Minister has influenza? Will the Parliamentary Secretary remind him that this problem has arisen in connection with the provision of facilities in the Palace of Westminster? Is he aware that the Stokes Committee commented adversely on the fact that certain urgently needed improvements to the Library were not carried out because of the high level of Ministry of Works estimates and that the Committee recommended that this work could be put out for competitive tendering? Could the hon. Gentleman ask the Minister why this has not been done?

The hon. Lady has added to the point that I was making. One has to be certain that firms which are invited to tender are capable of doing the work. As far as this Royal Palace is concerned, one would invite only people who had the facilities, the ability and the knowledge necessary to get the work done. As I have said in reply to the main Question, it is possible for any firm which has the facilities and which can show that it can do the work to be put on the Ministry's list to be invited to tender.

Mr. Spriggs.

With reference to—

Order. I was calling the hon. Member to ask the next Question.

asked the Minister of Works how many firms or companies receive invitations to tender for Departmental contracts; and why his Department refuses tenders, or does not allow interested firms to tender, in view of the specialised knowledge of some firms which wish to tender.

Four to eight contractors are normally invited to tender for works contracts according to the size of the job, selected from the Department's list of approved firms. These arrangements are satisfactory to the industry generally.

Is not the Minister's policy perhaps in danger of creating a monopoly or a price ring of some kind?

I think that if there were any difficulty about any firm getting on the approved list there would be that danger to both the public—as I heard interjected from the Front Bench—and the building industry. Tendering is best covered by firms being asked to tender for work which it is known they are capable of doing.

asked the Minister of Works whether he will ensure, before allowing the Windsor Castle heating installations to be converted to oil, that every alternative heating method using coal or coke has been examined with the National Coal Board and the British Coke Industry Association.

The scheme for an adequate central heating installation at Windsor Castle was designed some years ago and an oil-fired installation was decided upon after careful consideration of all the circumstances. It is now some months since this contract was let and the work is too advanced to consider changing the system. In the case of new schemes it is the current practice of my Department to consult the National Coal Board before deciding on the heating method.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary say why his Ministry did not consult the Minister of Power before the arrangement was made? Is he aware that what is now being done is to compare a modern oil-burning installation with an old-fashioned coke installation? Does he not know that there are many modern coal- and coke-burning systems which are cheaper to use than oil-burning systems and that they also eliminate the use of labour? Is he further aware—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—

Order. Progress will be better if hon. Members keep silent.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary further aware that, even though money may have been spent on this oil installation, it is still possible to convert it to coal- or coke-burning without any increase in expenditure? Does he not realise—[HON MEMBERS: "Speech."]—that the conversion of the Windsor Castle heating system to oil-burning will be taken as a very grave insult by miners who will suffer a very grievous blow to their morale?

Order. It is manifest that the hon. Member's supplementary question is too long. Mr. Hector Hughes.

On a point of order. Even though my supplementary question was made too long by the interruptions of hon. Members opposite, it is not as long as many other supplementary questions that have been asked this afternoon. Furthermore, am I not entitled to a reply, because this is a very important matter?

I am sorry, but I have an obligation to try to help the House to cut these supplementary questions shorter. I am sure that from time to time I make mistakes, because one goes on listening to a long question hoping that it is coming to an end. It is therefore difficult to be fair about it.

Further to that point, surely it would be right and proper to allow the Parliamentary Secretary to reply. My hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth (Mr. Wyatt) asked a number of important questions.

The position is that if the question is out of order there is no need for a reply, but I should like to give the Parliamentary Secretary an opportunity of answering before we go on to the next Question.

I assure the hon. Member for Bosworth (Mr. Wyatt) that we do compare like with like and that the advisers at the Ministry of Works have detailed knowledge of the relative merits of all forms of heating. The structure of Windsor Castle, the availability of a storage place for coal and questions of amenity all show that an oil installation would be the most satisfactory.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made in the completion of the preliminary arrangements for commencing the Wallyford, or Musselburgh, by-pass.

The line of road has been included in the Midlothian County Council Development Plan which has still to be approved.

Is the Joint Under-Secretary of State aware that there will be great disappointment that nothing much has been done about this? Will he not urge upon his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland the urgency of getting on with this road which joins the Edinburgh by-pass, particularly in view of the progress made with the Forth road bridge and what is happening in the Lothians?

I will convey to my right hon. Friend what the hon. Member has said, but the hon. Member will realise that there are certain procedures which must be followed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many acres of land in Scotland were reclaimed for agricultural purposes with assistance of reclamation grants during the year 1958–59.

During the financial year 1958–59 grants totalling approximately £34,000 were paid under the Farm Improvement Scheme, the Hill Farming and Livestock Rearing Acts, the Marginal Agricultural Production Scheme and the Crofters Agricultural Grants Scheme in respect of the reclamation of some 2,000 acres for agricultural purposes. It is not possible to say how much of this reclamation was actually carried out in 1958–59 and how much in earlier years.

I had difficulty in hearing that reply, but, if I heard it aright, may I ask if the hon. Gentleman is aware that it is scandalous that the amount being reclaimed is falling, and that there is a vast area in Scotland about which something ought to be done? Will he press this matter upon his right hon. Friend?

The figure of 2,000 acres is not substantially less than that in previous years, and I consider that there are ample incentives under existing schemes to bring land back into agricultural use.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many acres in Scotland have been used for new housing schemes from 1950 to 1959, inclusive.

No exact figure is available, but it is estimated that some 29,000 acres were used for new housing schemes in that period, not all of which is lost to agriculture.