asked the Minister of Aviation if he can yet state his decision about the application by British European Airways to fly Comet 4B aircraft to and from London Airport at night.

Test flights are continuing. My right hon. Friend hopes to make a decision fairly soon.

Before the Minister finally makes a decision, will he consider the possibility of operating jet aircraft at night from strips on coastal areas where they would not cause quite so much disturbance to the local residents?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he is yet in a position to make a statement on the possibility of a follow-on order to be placed with de Havillands at Christchurch.

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will issue a White Paper setting out the sums contributed by Her Majesty's Government to each civil aviation development project since the war, together with the sums repaid to Her Majesty's Government in respect of each project.

The figures, in the form asked for, over this long period are not readily available. I propose, therefore, to discuss with the hon. Lady how best I can give her the information she requires without imposing an undue amount of work on my staff.

I thank the Minister for that reply, but is he aware that this is not just a question of satisfying the hon. Lady; it is a question of the principle of public accountability? Over £60 million has been spent on research and development of civil aircraft since the end of the war in connection with which no matter of security arises. Surely the House has a right to know where the money has gone and what return we have had for it. There is a constitutional problem involved here of putting them in some form over which Parliament can have control over public funds.

I have no illusions that I shall be able to satisfy the hon. Lady. What I said was that I would discuss with her in what form the figures she is asking for could be presented to Parliament without causing an altogether disproportionate amount of work in my Department. She has asked for figures going right the way back to 1945, and this is my difficulty. It is extremely difficult to separate the amount of assistance being given to military and civil projects, particularly with regard to aero-engines where they are developed for both purposes.

One appreciate that difficulty. There are no doubt some figures available. Indeed, the right hon. Gentleman indicated that there were. He says that he will make the figures available to Parliament, but in what form does he propose to do that? Will there be some statement in HANSARD or something like that, because these figures are all-important?

I will try to do it in a form which is convenient to the House.

asked the Minister of Aviation if he will now state in detail the steps which he intends to take to ensure that Her Majesty's Government receives a share of the profits arising from the development of civil aircraft in return for the public money he is investing in these projects.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he has now considered the desirability of issuing as soon as possible a White Paper setting out in full the Government's plans for strengthening the aircraft industry.

asked the Minister of Aviation what total sums he intends providing towards the initial costs of developing new types of aircraft, of producing a limited number of aircraft over and above firm orders, and of proving and introducing new types of civil aircraft into regular airline service.

I have nothing at present to add to the statement on this subject which I made last week.

Is the Minister aware that the Press has widely described that statement as seriously unsatisfactory in just these particular respects? Is it not time that a thorough review was made of the basis on which this public money is put into the hands of private firms? Is it not also desirable that the Government and the public taxpayers should not only get recoupment of a certain percentage of the cost, but should be given a share in the profits by the acquisition of equities in these companies, carrying with them the right to appoint directors to the boards so that proper control can be introduced?

I have already made it clear in my statement last week that the Government propose to make arrangements in the contract with each firm governing the assistance to be granted and for recouping a share of the proceeds.

Not proceeds, profits.

I also explained that profits and proceeds are closely related. There is quite an advantage in having a contract which provides for recouping a share of the proceeds, even though there may not be a profit.

On the question of the White Paper, if the right hon. Gentleman is not able to do so at the moment because he wants to discuss the matter with the aircraft industry—and that is understandable—will he shortly issue a White Paper which will set out in greater detail the very broad indications of policy which he sketched to the House last week? Does he not realise that the House is entitled to know the manner and extent to which he proposes to apply that policy? In particular, if there is to be closer partnership with the aircraft industry, as he implied, why should that partnership not be made a reality by some participation in the equity shares of the company, or otherwise by some Government representation on the boards of the companies?

I have already said that it was not our policy to take equity shares in the companies. There is another Question down on the Order Paper about Government participation on the boards of the companies. As regards the issue of a White Paper, as I explained—the right hon. Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss) referred to this himself—I am at the moment discussing these matters with the manufacturers, and this would not be an appropriate moment to give more information. When the time comes, I shall consider giving more information, but I doubt very much that it will justify the publication of a White Paper. I will consider in what form it will be most convenient to give the House that information.

Does the Minister recall that since he made the statement to which he has just referred, he has indicated to the Chancellor that he will require in the Estimates for next year £7 million odd for the development of civil aviation for the many purposes set out in Question No. 14, and for the development of military aviation he will require £198 million? Does he tell the House that, in asking for that money, he has no idea what he will do with it?

I shall not discuss the Estimates before they are published.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Surely, when one asks a simple question like this, without seeking to discuss—

That is not a point of order.

Does the Minister's use of the word "proceeds" as opposed to "profits" mean that he expects some of these projects which he will support with public money to be unprofitable? If he says "No", that he expects them all to be profitable, will he tell us what steps he intends to take to make sure that this money cannot be raised in the market?

I shall not say in advance whether some of these projects will be profitable or unprofitable. In the past, we have had some of each.

asked the Minister of Aviation, (1) what are the numbers employed in the aircraft industry in Scotland: and how they will be affected by the mergers proposed for the aircraft industry;

asked the Minister of Aviation what support he intends giving to the aircraft industry in Scotland.

The Government's support of the aircraft industry, of which I gave particulars last week, is designed to strengthen the industry as a whole and should, therefore, increase the prospects of employment generally.

I thank the Minister for that Answer. He has referred to aeroengines at Rolls-Royce, and the figure given of 12,500 is the total employment of trained personnel in Scotland. Does he appreciate that my Question refers to the aircraft industry, and it is our share of the aircraft industry as such in Scotland about which I am particularly concerned?

Will the right hon. Gentleman particularise a little? We accept, of course, the position he has indicated with regard to aeroengines in Scotland, but does he realise that the aircraft production side of the industry is steadily disappearing and the industry at Prestwick has almost gone out'? Does he realise that maintenance work at Renfrew will, by June, have disappeared completely? What does he propose to do to help Scotland, which did have some of this industry but which now, under the present Government, is rapidly losing it?

I stand to be corrected, but I do not believe it is right that maintenance work at Renfrew will be running out in June—

Oh.

I stand to be corrected on that, but I do not believe that it is so. As regards Scottish Aviation Ltd, which is the firm. I think, which the hon. Member has in mind, I should, of course, be very happy to see that firm included in one or other of the major groups. I am still hoping, though not necessarily confident.

What encouragement is being offered to Scottish Aviation, Limited, to take part in any of the mergers?

I do not believe that it needs much encouragement.

Does the Minister appreciate that he is causing a great deal of dissatisfaction in the west of Scotland by his superficial references to Prestwick? Is he aware that there is an industry which has grown up round the civil airport, one of the biggest in the world, yet now it seems that he has no clear practical proposals—only hopes? Can he give some indication that he is really thinking of doing something for this very important sector of our economy?

All the three Questions which I answered were related to the aircraft industry.

asked the Minister of Aviation what estimate he has made of the effect of the amalgamation of the firm producing the Rotodyne with another company on employment in Hayes, Middlesex.

It is premature to attempt to estimate the effect of the recent merger on employment at Hayes.

Will the Minister bear in mind that, in this and other cases, it would be highly desirable if some intimation of changes could be given to trade union officers and shop stewards in order to prevent a great deal of unnecessary personal concern and anxiety?

These are, of course, matters for the management. We cannot forecast what may be the position with regard to particular factories. But if there are any developments, we will get in touch with the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will arrange for a senior official of his Department to be appointed to the board of any aircraft manufacturing company which receives substantial financial support from Government sources.

No, Sir.

Does not the Minister agree that when finance is provided on a large scale in connection with private industry it is the usual practice for the financier to have the right to appoint a director to safeguard his interests? Is not the Government now getting into that position with regard to the aircraft industry?

I would not accept the last suggestion of the hon. Gentleman. The Government do not wish to get involved in the day-to-day management of private firms. Our position as the placer of large contracts will, I am sure, give us quite as much say as we ought properly to have.

But surely the Minister would agree that a director is concerned with safeguarding policy and not with day-to-day management—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—a director is not concerned with day-to-day management unless he happens to be a managing director or an executive director; the main object of a director is to safeguard activities. The organisation putting up the finance ought to have some say in the general policy which is being carried out. Should not the Government, therefore, be in a position to do this with regard to the aircraft industry?

The contracts we shall place for the development of projects will lay down the amount of assistance we are proposing to give and will contain all the safeguards we consider necessary.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that in this matter we are going far beyond anything which has happened in the past? Does he not realise that there must be tens of millions of pounds which will be put into aircraft manufactured by some firms for development purposes? Surely it is proper and responds to public requirements that under such conditions there should be a Government representative—a director or somebody—on the board of such companies which the Government are keeping alive with public money? Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his decision? When he issues a White Paper or makes such statement as he has in mind, will he tell us that this obviously desirable proposal should be initiated by the Government?

I think that the right hon. Gentleman, who was himself at one time Minister of Supply, is quite wrong. When he says that what we are doing now goes far beyond anything done before, he must have forgotten the facts. We are proposing to take a share in the cost of developing new aircraft. I think I am right in saying that in a number of cases when the right hon. Gentleman was in office the Government paid 100 per cent. of the cost of the development of aircraft but did not put anyone on the board.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that this subject was discussed during the last General Election and rejected by the electorate? Does not my right hon. Friend think it would be much better if the party opposite spent some time trying to revise its own constitution instead of putting down frivolous Questions of this nature?

That is just what I thought it was doing.

Is not the essence of the statement made last week by the Minister—that he proposed in various ways to assist the aircraft industry by more financial help than it has had in the past—that now something additional is proposed? Is it not these new circumstances which make such a strong case for taking action which has not been taken before to safeguard the public purse?

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain to his hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr. Dudley Williams) that what we were told about at the General Election was the great success of competitive private enterprise? In view of the fact that the Government are now going to face the facts in this connection—

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I draw your attention to the fact that I am not the Minister responsible for answering Questions? I understood that the question of the right hon. Member for Huyton (Mr. H. Wilson) was addressed to me—I have no responsibility.

I am well aware that the hon. Gentleman is not the Minister. I think that we should get on with Questions.

My question was put to the Minister. I was asking him to take a little time off to explain a few facts to his hon. Friend. Will the right hon. Gentleman answer this question? Is not the Government completely schizophrenic in this matter? Is it not the fact that under D.A.T.A.C. procedure the Treasury has been in the habit of appointing Government directors to almost every firm in a Development Area which has been in receipt of Government finance or help, and that Treasury-appointed directors have been involved in the management of a large number of companies manufacturing commodities ranging from vacuum cleaners to detergents? If that can be done with factories in those areas, what is wrong with doing the same thing in the case of the aircraft industry?

I think the arrangements we propose should work quite satisfactorily.

I can understand that the Minister may be willing to give large sums of money to the aircraft industry, but is the Chancellor of the Exchequer equally willing? Is this a precedent for giving equally large sums of money to other firms without any control over it?

The right hon. Gentleman has been a member of a Government. I consider that he need not waste the time of the House in asking a Minister whether he has consulted the Chancellor of the Exchequer before making a major announcement involving considerable Government expenditure.

asked the Minister of Aviation what progress has been made in his consideration of the problem of developing a supersonic civil airliner.

I am examining with the industry the problem of developing a supersonic civil airliner. I am placing separate study contracts with each of the major airframe groups and with each of the aeroengine groups, all of which have, for some time, been considering this problem. The firms have been asked to study the technical issues involved, including the question of the optimum speed as well as the economic prospects. They have been asked also to explore the possibility of collaboration with suitable foreign firms.

Is the Minister in direct contact with the American and French Governments on this matter, in view of the great importance of it to the whole future of the aviation industry, and is he satisfied that the best way of going about it is to place separate contracts with each firm rather than have one overall contract embraced within his Ministry?

In the first place, I think, this is primarily a matter for discussion beween firms. As to whether we should place separate contracts, I thought that, in the initial stage, when it is a matter of studying the problem, we should have advantage in obtaining the separate views of each of these firms. There is, of course, no thought in my mind of placing two contracts for two supersonic airliners when we have the results of those studies.

Are the firms with which the Minister is in negotiation themselves in contact with firms on the Continent of Europe and in the United States so that, if they decide to go ahead with the project, they will have gone some way towards the co-operation which will obviously be necessary on this very expensive project?

Contacts have already been made.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will make a statement on outstanding applications for low fares by the air corporations and the independent air companies.

As I have already explained to the House, I hope to be ready to make a statement on this subject next month.

asked the Minister of Aviation what discussions he has had with Ministers of Commonwealth and Allied countries with a view to their contributing towards the development of the hovercraft for military purposes.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave to him last Monday. It would be premature to consider a joint programme with other Governments until the studies on possible military applications have been completed.

Does the Minister agree that this striking invention with its vast military possibilities is an ideal subject for a co-operative project, and, if co-operation in military applications is to mean more than just a word in White Papers year after year, this is just the type of subject on which we should advance with our friends and allies?

Consultations with other Governments will certainly be considered, and undoubtedly there is a growing interest in the United States and elsewhere. All I am saying is that mare information is needed before the possibilities of military application can really be assessed.

asked the Minister of Aviation what plans he has for harmonising as far as possible the characteristics of military and civil types of transport aircraft.

When ordering military transport aircraft the Services have been asked to accept specifications suited to civil requirements with as few modifications as possible. This procedure Chas been followed recently in several cases.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether the reverse process also is carried out? In other words, when a very important civil aircraft is being designed, is there early consultation with the military authorities to see that their requirements are taken into account?

That is also done.

asked the Minister of Aviation whether he will establish a Royal Corps of Aircraft Designers on the model of the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors.

I am afraid I am unable to adopt the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion. The Royal Corps of Naval Constructors are a body of professional civil servants in the Admiralty who design ships for the Royal Navy. The aircraft for the Royal Air Force are designed by the aircraft industry. There is, therefore, no need for a comparable body of professional civil servants to do this work.

Since no one now believes in the value of competitive design or competitive research, but rather in the pooling of design and research, would it not be a good plan to adopt a scheme which has worked so admirably for the Admiralty and which, in fact, would be identical in system?

I do not think the right hon. Gentleman has grasped the point. The people who belong to the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors are in the Admiralty designing ships for the Admiralty and for the Government. The work in the aircraft industry is done by designers in the separate firms. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that there will be the most keen competition in the aircraft industry.

With respect, I do not think the right hon. Gentleman understands my point of view. The Admiralty designers draw up plans for ships which are constructed by private firms. In order to secure the pooling of design and research, I am proposing that the same thing should be done in the case of aircraft.

But the people in the Royal Corps of Naval Constructors design ships only for the Royal Navy. In the aircraft industry we do not separate military and civil aircraft. It would be quite impracticable to separate the design of an aircraft for the Royal Air Force from the design of civil aircraft. There is very much in each case which is the same.

asked the Minister of Aviation what progress he has made in his study of the report of the Spanish authorities into the accident to the British-owned Transair Dakota aircraft in the Pyrenees on 19th August, 1959; and when he expects to make a statement as to the cause of the accident.

My right hon. Friend proposes to publish the report received from the Spanish authorities. It will be on sale at the Stationery Office on 9th March. I will send copies to the hon. Member and to other hon. Members who have expressed an interest in the accident.

Can the Minister inform me whether a public inquiry was held into this tragic accident in addition to the investigation by the Spanish authorities? Is he aware that there is great concern about this accident among student organisations?

There was no public inquiry, but three members of the Accidents Investigation Branch visited Spain and co-operated with the investigating authorities.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the inadequacy of the present arrangements to employ locum tenentes in general practice and the hospital services; and what steps he will take to improve the position.

I am aware that individual difficulties sometimes occur, but I am not clear that action by me would be appropriate.

In view of the fact that so many of these difficulties occur because of the failure to solve these problems at the local level, will the Minister give consideration to the introduction of a scheme for a national locums service, and further, will he consider the possibility of using the trainee assistants scheme in order to help in this respect? For example, if the trainees were given two months at the end of the normal training to do locums and enable them to obtain wider experience in general practice and also in hospitals that would help. Will he also consider the possibility of short refresher courses for consultants and specialists, so that they may come down into the arena of family doctoring, which might be beneficial to them and help the general practitioner in solving his problem of locums?

On the first of those three points, I doubt whether an organised service of the sort suggested would really meet the case, because there are so many and varied personal factors involved in these matters. On the second point, I should like to consider the suggestion which the hon. Gentleman is good enough to make. The third point, as he will be the first to appreciate, is very revolutionary in a professional service, and I think that, like Agag of old, I had better tread delicately.

While not asking the Minister to commit himself now, will he reconsider his first answer? As he realises, the great majority of doctors today are employed by the State and find it very difficult to obtain a deputy in case of illness; in fact, there is no certainty that they can obtain a deputy. This also applies during holidays. We should at least equate doctors with civil servants so that deputies who can be relied upon are available. Perhaps the Minister will reconsider the whole matter?

I am always ready to consider further these matters, but I was giving my impression as it now stands. We should not exaggerate the difficulties about locums. In particular, we have to remember that there has been a considerable increase in the number both of general practitioners and hospital doctors overall. These difficulties have to be seen against that more satisfactory background.

asked the Minister of Health if he will establish uniform criteria to be applied by all local executive councils when reviewing the appointment of assistants in general practice.

The circumstances in which an assistant may be employed vary widely and I do not think it would be desirable to limit Executive Councils' discretion in the way suggested.

I thank the Minister for that reply, but is it necessary to think in terms of limitation? If there were some standard of criteria it would get rid of the present anomaly whereby the method of review on one side of a county boundary is different from that on the other side. Will he consider some means of stopping the exploitation which goes on at the moment, in some few respects, of permanent assistants? Some general practitioners—a few only, I admit—employ, time after time, a series of assistants "with a view" which remains permanently on the horizon. Will the Minister reconsider the answer he has given?

Yes, Sir, but these difficulties are sought to be met first by the requirement of obtaining the consent of the executive council when a general practitioner wants to employ an assistant for more than three months, and secondly, by the periodical reviews of the consents given, which were introduced by the Regulations of 1956. It is clear that the consents are in no way permanent. They are subject to review.

asked the Minister of Health if he has now reached a decision on the provision of invalid vehicles with seats for more than one person.

I have not yet quite completed my review of this matter, but expect to do so shortly.

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that this matter was referred to in his party's election manifesto? A considerable time has now elapsed since it was first raised by the organisations interested in it, and an Adjournment debate was held in this House on 16th November last when this matter was discussed. Does he not think that the time has now come when this relatively simple problem could be solved?

No, Sir. The manifesto to which the hon. Lady refers stated that particular attention would be given to this problem, and we have been giving particular attention to it. I expect to make a statement very shortly. Among other matters, the ex-Service men's organisations, which have been trying out certain vehicles, have not yet given me their report, but I expect to make a statement very soon.

asked the Minister of Health, what steps are being taken to encourage more local authorities to train public health inspectors.

The improvement in recruitment, to which I have referred in previous replies continues. The new training and examination scheme of the Public Health Inspectors Education Board when it comes into operation should further encourage local authorities to undertake the training of public health inspectors.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell us when this training scheme will come into operation? Is he aware that many local authorities, like my own, which train public health inspectors, find that other local authorities, which take no responsibility at all in this matter, immediately take them off their hands by offering them a house or a little more salary? Should not every local authority be on equal terms in training their own inspectors and taking their fair share of responsibility?

I cannot give precise details of the scheme for which the hon. Lady asks, but when it comes into operation it will enable any local authority to undertake the training of public health inspectors if the Board is satisfied that that results in a satisfactory training. As to numbers, the great thing is to have more public health inspectors overall, and I am glad to say that 214 qualified last year, which is 14 more than the target set by the working party.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give special attention to the training of assistants to look after air pollution, which has so important a health aspect?

I will certainly bear the right hon. Gentleman's question in mind.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the number of his Department's notices, headed, "Supply of Glasses," which have been distributed to opticians throughout the country since 1948, and the cost of supply and distribution.

It is estimated that since 1951, when the notice was introduced, some 20,000 copies have been distributed to opticians. I regret that the information asked for in the second part of the Question is not available.

Is the hon. Lady aware that this notice is headed "Important"? If all these copies have been sent out, although she cannot give the cost, surely the object must have been that they should be on show'? Will she take steps to ensure that this document is on show in opticians' shops and consider having it written in language for patients instead of language for opticians?

It is written in very simple language which I should have thought everyone could understand. I believe that most opticians display it and find it useful to do so.

asked the Minister of Health if he is satisfied with the procedure for testing drugs and for banning the sale, except on medical advice and prescription, of drugs which may otherwise be harmful; and if he will make a statement.

I am considering a recommendation by the Committee on the Cost of Prescribing to the effect that the arrangements for testing drugs should be improved. Restriction to supply on medical advice and prescription is a different matter, in respect of which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department and I already have powers. As I said in my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke) on 1st February, 1960, an Inter-Departmental Working Party is studying the present law and will make recommendations on any changes which it thinks necessary.

Would not the Minister agree that it is about time this confusion between two Departments came to an end and that in this important matter the health authority dealing with it should be in one Department, its own Department, which is now solely concerned with health, hospitals and medical matters? With whatever Departmental committees he may have and with his right hon. Friends interested in this matter, will he consider suggesting that no new drugs should come on the market until they have been approved by some authority or body, probably the Committee in existence in his Department?

There is no confusion in regard to this matter. It is true that in respect of the control of drugs two Departments are involved, that of the Ministry of Health in regard to the Therapeutic Substances Act, and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary in regard to the Pharmacy and Poisons Act and the Dangerous Drugs Act. There is no confusion about it; we are working together harmoniously and effectively.

Will the Minister take one immediate step, and that is to inform the drug houses, which are hawking their high-priced drugs from doctor to doctor at the expense of the taxpayer, that all drugs should have had a clinical trial in this country? He could take that step immediately.

The right hon. Lady is now dealing with the other part of the Question. The original Question covered all these matters, but the question of the hon. Lady referred to tests. She will know of the recommendations of the Hinchcliffe Committee with reference to a clinical trials committee. Consultations are well advanced and I hope to make a statement on that aspect of the matter shortly.

asked the Minister of Health if he has yet considered the communication sent to him enclosing a warning issued by the Co-operative Union to the co-operative societies against the selling of the drugs Preludin, Persomnia, Relaxa, Menopax, and Miltown, except on a doctor's prescription or on the advice of a qualified chemist; and what reply he has sent.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply on 15th February to the hon. Member for Wood Green (Mrs. Butler).

Is the Minister aware that I have that Answer with me but it does not answer the Question? I ask the Minister to look at the Question, which asks about Preludin, Persomnia, Relaxa, Menopax and Miltown. The two we have been told about are Preludin and Persomnia, but we now want to know about the other three. Does the right hon. and learned Gentle- man appreciate that even the chemists are in a proper mess about the statements made in this House? Does he appreciate that the list given by the Home Secretary means nothing to the general public? How can we know whether the other three are banned or not? Will the Minister also refer to the Question about chemists?

No one is in a mess about this, with the possible exception of the hon. Member, who sometimes has a tendency to get a little muddled about these matters. The preparations mentioned in his Question all contain substances which my right hon. Friend intends to restrict to supply by prescription under the Pharmacy and Poisons Act, 1933. The preparations referred to in the Question will be subject to control.

Why did the Home Secretary not mention it last week?

asked the Minister of Health if he will explain the item entitled, "Shortfall in payments by patients, shown in subhead I, Supplementary Ophthalmic Services", of the Supplementary Estimate for the National Health Service, England and Wales.

Payments by patients for the supply of glasses are expected to fall short of the original Estimate because fewer glasses are being supplied than was anticipated.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has yet completed his review of the schedule of spectacle frames available under the National Health Service.

I am aware that some frames are difficult to obtain, but do not accept that the schedule is largely obsolete. When the results of the sample inquiry of prescriptions given in November last are available, my right hon. and learned Friend will be consulting his Standing Ophthalmic Advisory Committee and the optical profession about a review of the schedule.

Since the schedule has not been revised for twelve years—apart from the fact that one or two types have now gone out of production—does the hon. Lady not think it high time we had a new schedule more in line with public taste and with frames using modern materials?

A number of changes have in fact been made in the schedule since 1948. The review, when it takes place, will particularly concern the question of childrens' glasses, about which there has been criticism, and whether we should replace or drop some of the adult frames which are now becoming obsolete.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the strong feelings amongst general practitioners against any sort of differential payments scheme; and whether he will take full account of these in considering the recommendation of the Royal Commission on Doctors' Remuneration in this connection.

Until my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and I have fully studied the Report and its implications, it would be premature for me to comment on its recommendations.

Is not my right hon. and learned Friend aware that there are very grave fears that any form of merit award for general practitioners will undermine the medical profession and destroy the doctor-patient relationship? Will my right hon. and learned Friend take the most serious account of such fears that have been expressed in many forms?

It will be our duty to take into account all relevant considerations when considering the recommendations of this Royal Commission.

As the Minister says that he and his right hon. Friend are now considering these recommendations, will he bear in mind very carefully the point raised by the hon. Member for Carlisle (Dr. Johnson) and, when the time comes, tell the House exactly the criteria which he intends to apply to a general practitioner whom he believes will merit this award?

I will bear that in mind in common with other relevant considerations. When we have had time fully to consider the report we propose to discuss it with the medical and dental professions. In those discussions and consultations, no doubt this subject, amongst others, will arise.

asked the Minister of Health what schemes he has approved for the expansion and development of hospitals under the control of the Reading and District Hospital Management Committee; and how many new hospital beds will be made available by such schemes.

My right hon. and learned Friend has authorised a scheme which will provide 16 additional maternity beds at Wokingham Hospital, and he is now considering a major scheme of development at the Royal Berkshire Hospital to provide a new ophthalmic unit of 30 beds and a general ward of thirty or more beds with ancillary departments. The regional hospital board hopes to start in the next two years a number of other smaller schemes at the hospitals managed by this hospital management committee.

I thank my hon. Friend for her reply, but does she realise that over 700 new beds are needed and envisaged in order to deal with the increase of 25 per cent. of the population that these hospitals serve, and would she be willing, in relation to the reply which the Minister made to the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) on the matter of the over- and under-spending of capital allocations, to allow some of the under-spending of the other area boards to be used in Reading to deal with this matter?

The question of under-spending in one particular area is a matter for that area to step up its rate of progress. I do not think it is possible to switch under-spending from one region to another, but my hon. Friend may be glad to know that, in addition to the major scheme promised for the Royal Berkshire, there is a number of other schemes for the development of hospitals in this hospital management committee's area.

asked the Minister of Health how many houses let by regional hospital boards and hospital management committees are without electric light or without water carriage sanitation or without a bathroom.

I regret that this information is not available.

Will the hon. Lady undertake to get the information, as this is a rather important matter? Having obtained it, will she instruct regional boards and management committees to undertake a programme to bring their houses at least up to the standard of local authority houses, where that is possible—I do not mean right out in the country—and provide the money and give the date when this can be completed?

Records are not kept centrally of hospital houses managed by hospital authorities, and I have no information about any particular difficulties in the area represented by the hon. Member, because I have caused inquiries to be made. If he has a case in mind, I should be grateful if he would let me have the details.

Does the hon. Lady not think it rather shocking that there should be hospital houses below the standard of local authority houses owned by the Ministry and that there should be no information available?

I know of no such cases. In general, houses were taken over before the appointed date to provide for development in particular areas.

asked the Minister of Health how the cost of employing private architects for hospital building compares with the cost of similar work performed by the architectural staffs of the regional hospital boards.

Precise assessment is not possible, but there is normally a small saving on the cost of the project when the work is done by architects on the staff of regional hospital boards.

In view of the projected larger programme of hospital building, will the Minister take steps to see that the pay and conditions of architects of regional hospital boards are brought closer to those of architects in private practice, and also consult his colleagues in other Departments to see that there is an adequate supply of architects available for training for both short-term and long-term appointments?

A joint review of salaries of architects of regional hospital boards was undertaken in January 1959 on the agreement of both sides of the Whitley Council. There have been proposals and counter-proposals in regard to the remuneration of architects, and I understand that an arbitration is now pending.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the provision of a maternity unit at Corby was approved in principle in March, 1956; and whether he will now approve the acceptance of tenders and authorise the commencement of work on the unit.

Tenders were recently received for this scheme which show a very substantial increase in cost over the approved estimate. Possible modifications are therefore being discussed with the regional hospital board, and my right hon. and learned Friend is not yet able to approve the tenders.

Is the hon. Lady aware that this discussion itself is now two or three weeks old and that the reason the estimates were higher is the very long delay between the original estimates and the subsequent ones? In view of the social and great local demand for this maternity unit, could she use her best endeavours to speed it up and let it be started soon?

The answer to the last part of the hon. and learned Member's question is, yes. The tenders which were received in December showed a very substantial increase in cost, more than 25 per cent. over the original estimate.

asked the Minister of Health what tests have been made to the warning siren at Broadmoor Institution since 1st January, 1960, consequent on representations which have been made to him that it did not effectively warn those living nearby on that day.

asked the Minister of Health what is the effective range of the warning siren sounded when there is an escape from Broadmoor Institution; if he is satisfied that the siren is clearly audible everywhere in the area where it is considered right that residents and schools should know immediately when a dangerous patient is at large; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Health whether, due to the lack of public confidence in the escape warning siren at the Broadmoor Institution, he will authorise further or additional escape warning devices to be used for the benefit of the outskirts of the surrounding area.

Except in certain climatic conditions, the siren is clearly audible within a radius of two miles, and can often be heard clearly in many considerably more distant places. It is the best that can be devised, and in my view is fully adequate for the purpose it is intended to serve. In accordance with standing arrangements, it was fully tested and overhauled by the manufacturers a fortnight ago.

Does the Minister appreciate that, in raising this question, nobody is trying to blame him, his Ministry, or those responsible for the technical arrangements for this siren, but why does he reject the evidence from responsible sources which many people—including myself—have brought to him, that this siren, in spite of all the trouble taken with it, is not doing its job and that what in fact is required is a linked siren with Camberley, Wokingham and Bracknell? Does he appreciate that the real tragedy of the situation is that the institution at Broad-moor has lost the confidence of the public and nothing would restore it more than if this siren were working effectively?

I think that the siren is working effectively. No matter how effective the siren, there is always the chance that some people, even within the range of audibility, will not on every occasion hear it, but it is the best that can be devised from the technical point of view. It is subject to these frequent tests, and it is also possible to reinforce it by police car loudspeakers within the close radius of the hospital when any incident occurs. While I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern in the matter, I think that we are doing all we can in alerting the neighbourhood when these escapes take place.

Will the Minister consider reamplification by some electrical means on the outskirts of the two-mile area to carry the sound further? This is what is demanded and desired by many inhabitants on the outskirts of the Institution.

We have aimed at a radius of about two miles. As I have said, the siren can be heard beyond the two-mile radius, subject to climatic conditions and the lie of the land. I think that we must have some limit beyond which we do not propose to sound this siren. I think that what we have now is about right, but, if my hon. Friend has any specific technical suggestions to make, I will refer them to my advisers.

asked the Minister of Health what disciplinary action has been taken consequent on the report submitted to him by the Board of Control on the escape of Leslie Parr from Broadmoor Institution on 1st January, 1960.

None, Sir.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend recall that at this time last week he announced that one of the findings of the committee of inquiry which reported to him was that no patient should be allowed in future to work inside a private house and out of direct observation? This clearly implies that this had been happening. It is generally known that the man who escaped had been used as a glorified domestic servant by the chief medical superintendent. Does my right hon. and learned Friend mean to tell us that no word of his displeasure has gone to the chief medical superintendent?

As I explained last week, it is an old established practice at Broadmoor that certain selected patients, obviously a very small minority of the whole complement, should undertake this type of work as part of their rehabilitation. As a result of the committee of inquiry, I have promulgated the new principle to which I referred last week, but I cannot really accept that there was any negligence in regard to the employment of Parr in this way.

asked the Minister of Health, in view of the importance of establishing a proper career structure for administrative staff in the hospital service, what decisions he has now come to on the recommendations of the Select Committee on Estimates of 1956–57, and of Sir Noel Hall, regarding the methods of appointing the senior administrative staff of hospital management committees.

I have asked hospital authorities to put into effect revised arrangements for filling senior administrative posts which are designed to meet the views expressed by Sir Noel Hall and are in line also with those expressed by the Select Committee. These arrangements include the setting up of advisory staff committees in each region to prepare personnel registers and to advise staff and employers on career and promotion matters, and the attendance at appointments committees of assessors from other authorities. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the relevant memorandum.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the position is not wholly satisfactory? This has been a matter of discussion for some years and there is a general feeling that the arrangements which he now proposes will not sufficiently bring to bear the influence of the regional hospital boards. Surely my right hon. and learned Friend will agree that none of these schemes is really very much use unless the influence of the regional hospital boards is considerable.

We sought, I think properly, to bring the teaching hospitals within the regions into it as well and we sought to meet the perhaps natural feeling of hospital management committees that they did not want their appointments to be completely dictated by the regional boards. I think that we have struck the right balance. In answer to the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I rather thought that when the Select Committee on Estimates took further evidence about this it was fairly well satisfied with the proposals which I am now making.

Surely my right hon. and learned Friend is not claiming that the new arrangements are the same as those which met with the approval of the Select Committee on Estimates?

I am not claiming that they are the same as those which were originally proposed by the Select Committee on Estimates. What I said was that I understood that at its subsequent meeting the Select Committee on Estimates seemed generally satisfied with the proposals which were then outlined to the Select Committee.

They are not the same.

On the question of assessors, is the Minister aware that, far from striking the right balance, his proposals are an emasculated and watered-down version of the Select Committee's proposals which will be utterly useless in practice and will go no way to achieving the objectives which the Select Committee had in mind?

This was not supposed to be merely a translation into action of the specific proposals of the Select Committee on Estimates. In addition to the Select Committee's considerations, I had the advantage of the report of Sir Noel Hall. These proposals derive from both those sources. While obviously they do not comply in specific detail with the original proposals of the Select Committee, I think that they meet the general point which the Committee had in mind.

asked the Minister of Health what progress is being made in the plans for the new area hospital for West Cornwall.

The South Western Regional Hospital Board was authorised last July to prepare working drawings and bills of quantities for the first stage of the hospital. Owing to the size of the scheme, these will necessarily take some months more to complete.

Will the hon. Lady read the Answer which was given to me by her predecessor seven months ago, in which he said that considerable progress had been made with regard to working drawings and bills of quantity? Will the hon. Lady take into account the fact that sketch plans took several years to prepare, and will she ensure that the completion of the working plans and bills of quantity is hastened?

My predecessor said to the hon. Member last July that the sketch plans were approved subject to further consideration of the plans for housing resident staff, that a considerable task with regard to working drawings and bills of quantity was entailed and that details of engineering services had to be settled. The plans for the housing of resident staff have been agreed. There have been discussions about the engineering services, but the final engineering plans have not yet been submitted by the board. However, my right hon. and learned Friend is pressing the board to submit them as quickly as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, in view of the widespread dissatisfaction at the decision by Her Majesty's Government to give £200,000 to the World Refugee Year Appeal, what consideration has been given to increasing the amount; and what is the present position in this connection.

I do not accept that there is the widespread dissatisfaction mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, who should know that we contributed over £2 million last year for aid to refugees. I cannot say whether or not Her Majesty's Government will make a further contribution to the World Refugee Year Appeal.

Is not the Joint Under-Secretary of State aware that even prominent Conservatives have condemned the miserly amount which the Government propose to give? Does it not emphasise the severe limitations of the amount when it is known that the War Department lost over £1 million in surplus boots on orders which should never have been placed—at least five times the amount to be given—and for which no one has been reprimanded or sacked?

It has always seemed to me that the best thing about the success of the appeal has been the personal generosity of those responding to it, and that is the first thing to try to encourage.

Without being "prominent", may I ask my hon. Friend to see whether the figure cannot be stepped up, in view of the fact that a country like Italy, whose economy was totally ruined fifteen years ago, is giving £300,000, which is half as much again as Her Majesty's Government?

I said in my main Answer that I could not say whether or not Her Majesty's Government will make a further contribution to the World Refugee Year Appeal. Nevertheless, my hon. Friend's remarks will be noted.

The Under-Secretary mentioned the £2 million which we contribute for aid to refugees. Does he realise that by far the greater part of that is for Palestine refugees, for whom we have a very special British governmental responsibility? Our contribution to World Refugee Year has so far been from the taxpayer, and is equal to 1d. per head of the population. Hon. Members below the Gangway on both sides of the House speak for everyone in the House when they say that they would welcome at least another 1d. per head.

I quite agree, and that may well come from private sources. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] That has been the great glory of the success of the appeal. I agree that a large amount of our contribution goes to Palestine refugees, but they are refugees.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that the real problem of refugees is not so much aid as rehabilitation?

Is it not a fact that the British Government have contributed less proportionately to this fund than any other Government in the world?

That is quite untrue.

Does the Minister recognise that a capital contribution now may serve to liquidate the problem of refugees, to get them re-established and save this recurrent charge which goes on every year?

My right hon. Friends are quite aware of all this, but there are some months to go before the appeal ends.

Owing to the totally unsatisfactory nature of the answer, I give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.