asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will require public houses in the State Management Scheme to have available at all times food, such as sandwiches, which can readily be taken with alcoholic drinks, in view of the danger to road safety from drivers who have taken even a small amount of alcohol.

It is my right hon. Friend's policy to encourage the sale of food or snacks in State Management premises. He would not think it reasonable to require all the houses to have sandwiches available at all times, but such things as cheese snacks and potato crisps are on sale in almost every public house in the Carlisle State Management District, and any reasonable request for sandwiches is met if possible.

In view of the fact that food intake retards the intake of alcohol into the blood stream, would my right hon. Friend suggest to publicans and brewers that biscuits at least should be not only available but on view in every bar, thereby stopping the chaps who are having one for the road from causing unnecessary accidents?

The Question relates to the State Management Scheme, but I think that, in general, my right hon. Friend would favour that proposition.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many children under 16 years of age were remanded to Holloway Prison, instead of being sent to remand homes, during the month of January, 1960.

Two, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the measure of public concern over such imprisonment of children is reflected in the widespread publicity which this morning's national Press has afforded the alarming disclosure, by a recently discharged prisoner, that a little girl of 14, guilty of a breach of probation in that she played truant from school, is incarcerated in Ward 4 of Holloway Prison Hospital and is in the company of adult prisoners awaiting trial on such grave charges as murder and attempted murder? Can the Minister either confirm or deny the truth of this allegation?

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern about this particular case, which is additional to the two to which I referred in my Answer. The juvenile court concerned acted quite properly under Section 27 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1948, and this child was committed to Holloway as there was no place available at a classifying school. I have investigated the matter this morning and a place has been found for this girl in an approved school to which she will be sent tomorrow morning.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the country is appalled that children of this age can be imprisoned? Is he further aware that it is reported that the only misdemeanour committed by this girl was that she played truant from school? Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that to convict a child like this and to put her in prison will make her a criminal in the future? Is he aware that it is very difficult to get any further information about what is happening concerning approved schools and remand homes since the appropriate document, the Directory of Approved Schools and Remand Homes, has been out of print for some considerable time?

The hon. Lady must realise, I think, that this was a decision of the court which it quite properly exercised under the provision inserted in the Criminal Justice Act, 1948. Courts have power in certain circumstances where children are of unruly temperament to remand them to prison rather than to a remand home. It is a power which the courts seldom exercise, although they have chosen to exercise it three times this year. My right hon. Friend has really no authority to comment on the decison of the court.

If the right hon. Gentleman thinks that this was a proper action to take, will he bear in mind that he is virtually alone in the country in that opinion? If this kind of thing can properly be done under existing legislation, will he ask his right hon. Friend urgently to consider an amendment of the legislation to make outrages of this kind impossible in future?

I did not say that I thought it was a proper thing. I said that my right hon. Friend could not comment on the decision of the court. I will convey to my right hon. Friend what the hon. Gentleman has said. The real solution of the matter lies, of course, in the provision of remand and observation centres.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the length of time required by the Departmental Committee on the Probation Service to prepare a comprehensive report, he will ask the Committee for an interim report and recommendations on pay and conditions.

No, Sir. I am not prepared to take this initiative. It is, of course, for the Committee to interpret its task in its own way; but I am bound to point out that many of the other matters it has to examine are relevant to pay.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this Committee is taking—and looks like continuing to take—a very long time, and that the wastage from the service and the difficulty of recruitment are therefore going to face him with a deteriorating situation when he tackles the service in the light of the Committee's recommendations?

I naturally hope that the Committee will be able to report as soon as possible, but I have carefully examined its terms of reference, and so many of them have some relation to pay that I hesitate to adopt my hon. Friend's suggestion, although I realise the urgency of the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will introduce legislation to remove the anomalies that exist between the Sunday sale of certain items from static shops and of the same items from mobile shops.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer which my right hon. Friend gave to a Question by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Horncastle (Commander Maitland) on 10th February.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are anomalies in the sale of paraffin? On Sundays a man may not sell paraffin oil if the drum is on the floor, but if he puts it on a wheelbarrow in the street outside he can sell it. Although that may be as good a piece of Irish logic as one could hope for on St. Patrick's day, does my right hou. Friend agree that we should not perpetuate it?

My right hon. Friend is aware that there are anomalies in this respect and representations have been made to him recently about them. The difficulty of finding a solution is due to the considerable alterations to the Shops Act legislation which would be required. This point cannot be considered in isolation.

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain to his hon. Friend, who is new to this House, that if his right hon. Friend had not given in to backbench pressure in the last Parliament and withdrawn his Shops Bill, these anomalies would have been rectified by now?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many prosecutions were initiated by the Metropolitan Police in 1959 for the offence of emitting smoke from diesel-engined vehicles to the danger of other road users.

There were seventy-two prosecutions in the Metropolitan Police District in 1959 under the Regulation which makes it an offence in certain circumstances to use a motor vehicle which emits smoke. No record is kept of the types of vehicles concerned.

Will my hon. and learned Friend bear in mind the fact that these offences are by no means on the decrease? They cause considerable annoyance to road users, especially in the Greater London area. Will he ask his right hon. Friend to use his influence to persuade the police to take a little more active interest in this matter?

In the Metropolitan area, to which the Question refers, this is a matter for the Commissioner and he is anxious to enforce the law in this respect.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is aware that, whereas the number of pedestrians killed in the Metropolitan Police area during the first half of 1959 was thirty-four less than during the first half of 1958, the number killed during the second half of the year was forty-seven more than in 1958, and that this reversal of the trend coincided with a relaxation of the enforcement of the speed limit since June, 1959; and what action he proposes to take in this matter.

Although the number of pedestrians killed in the first half of the year was less in 1959 than in 1958, the number of those injured was substantially greater. There has unfortunately been a fairly steady increase in accidents to pedestrians during the last few years, and there is no reason to think that the increase in the second half of last year resulted from any change in enforcement policy. The object of the instructions given by the Commissioner of Police in June last year was to intensify the efforts of the police to improve road manners and standards of driving and so to prevent road accidents. I am informed by the Commissioner, who is responsible for law enforcement, that he is keeping a very close watch on the situation.

That reply is welcome as far as it goes, but did not my hon. and learned Friend observe how widely the Commissioner's policy was apparently misrepresented in the national Press, on 9th February, as being one of non-enforcement of the 30 m.p.h. limit? Does not my hon. and learned Friend think that in view of his reply it might have been better if an immediate contradiction had been issued? Further, would not he agree that the policy of appeasement of lawbreakers is dangerous if carried too far?

I can assure my hon. and gallant Friend that there is no question of the appeasement of law-breakers. I hope that what I am about to say may be taken as a contradiction of what he has quoted. The position is that last June the Commissioner issued instructions to the police, to which some publicity was given by him, the object of those instructions being to secure a greater enforcement of the law and better standards of driving. A prosecution by summons is not the only means of enforcement, and the Commissioner arranged that a greater proportion of speeding offences of the less serious kind should be dealt with by warning rather than by summons. I can assure my hon. and gallant Friend that the Commissioner is anxious to enforce the law and that energetic action is being taken to prevent reckless or dangerous driving whenever possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what initial training course is taken by teachers entering the approved school service; and how many teachers have undergone this course.

Almost all teachers entering the approved school service are qualified teachers. The provision of special initial training is under consideration for teachers and certain other grades of staff, many of whom attend courses to improve their knowledge and technique during their service.

I thank my right hon. Friend for part of that reply, namely, that something is under consideration, but does not he agree that it is extremely reprehensible that we should send disturbed, maladjusted and sometimes even violent children to be dealt with, with a view to their reclamation, by teachers who are not only not trained in the handling of such children but sometimes are not even qualified teachers?

In fact, only 12 out of the 501 teachers in approved schools are unqualified. I accept that even that is undesirable, and I go further and stress that special training over and above ordinary teacher-training should be provided in respect of these schools.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will consider taking over financial responsibility for the maintenance of school crossing patrols on main trunk roads where these are not provided by the county authority.

No, Sir. This is, by Statute, a local responsibility.

As my hon. and learned Friend says that he has no power to take action in this matter, will he at least write to those few authorities who do not provide money for these very necessary crossing patrols, urging them to do so, especially in view of the ever-increasing volume of traffic in the West Country during the summer?

No, Sir. Local authorities have a discretion and responsibility of their own for deciding whether or not to have school crossing patrols. All county councils except four, and all county borough councils except four, have school crossing patrols. In Devon, where my hon. Friend's constituency is situated, there are no patrols, and it is for the democratically elected county councillors there to decide whether or not to have them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that Michael Dowdall, who was recently tried on a charge of murder at the Old Bailey and found not guilty on a successful defence of diminished responsibility, was sentenced to life imprisonment for manslaughter, and that there is consequent anxiety that, by virtue of the usual remissions to such a sentence, this man will be freed after a term of years; and whether he will make a statement of policy in regard to remission of sentences of imprisonment imposed under the provisions of Section 2 of the Homicide Act.

Persons sentenced to imprisonment for manslaughter under Section 2 of the Homicide Act are in the same position as those sentenced for any other form of manslaughter. If the sentence is a determinate one the prisoner may earn remission; but if it is a sentence of life imprisonment there is no remission and it rests with the Secretary of State to decide when to discharge the prisoner on licence. In considering when any prisoner sentenced to life imprisonment can be discharged the Secretary of State takes into account, among other factors, the question whether the prisoner is likely to be a danger to the public, and particular attention will be paid to this point in dealing with prisoners whose responsibility for their offence has been found to be diminished.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reassurance, but may I ask whether he is aware that a study of this case gives rise to anxiety, inasmuch as one of the psychopathic traits on which this verdict depended is described as "a past tendency to violence"? Will he bear that fact very much in mind with regard to this case, and also as possibly having relevance to others?

Yes. That reinforces the argument that each case must be most carefully considered on its merits, and I give the assurance that it will be.

Since it is abundantly clear that this man is seriously mentally ill, will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to see that he is imprisoned in one of the few prisons where psychiatric treatment is available?

Normally I should like notice of such a question, but I will consider the hon. Gentleman's point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he proposes to introduce the legislation, referred to in the Gracious Speech, with regard to penal reform; and if he will make a statement.

As I indicated in my reply to a Question by my hon. Friend, the Member for Ashford (Mr. Deedes) on 28th January, I am anxious to make comprehensive proposals for the treatment of young offenders, which will take into account certain proposals for amending legislation dealing with the approved schools arising partly out of the Durand Report as well as any views that may be expressed by the Ingleby Committee. The House will recognise that under the circumstances some delay in introducing the Bill is worth-while, and I hope that it will be ready this year and in time for next Session.

Will the Minister's proposals include compensation for the victims of violence? Does he not consider that the criminal who is responsible should contribute something towards that compensation?

This Measure would not include a provision of that sort on which we are having a detailed examination. That would have to be in a separate Measure if we found it was desirable.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many clubs have been raided for breaches of the Licensing Act during the past year in the Metropolitan Police area; in how many oases convictions were obtained; and in how many cases the premises were struck off.

During the year 1959, the Metropolitan Police made 165 entries into 144 clubs by virtue of warrants granted by magistrates under the Licensing Act, 1953. As a result of these entries, convictions were obtained in 149 cases: 13 cases have yet to be heard. In 3 cases no proceedings were taken. Sixty-two premises were struck off.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the police have very great difficulty in coping with, and securing convictions against, these undesirable drinking clubs? Is he aware that their efforts to maintain the peace and comfort of people living nearby are frustrated if magistrates do not exercise their powers to disqualify the premises, and that that is the only practical way to deal with the very serious problem of drinking clubs in the London area?

The figures I gave show that the police have been not unsuccessful in overcoming those difficulties. Disqualification is entirely a matter for the magistrates and, as my right hon. Friend indicated to the House on 29th January, he has in mind in future legislation to deal with the problem of bogus and undesirable clubs.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the total number of fires in factories making bomber aircraft in the last twelve months; where they have taken place; what reports he has received in respect of them; what action has been taken by him as a result of such reports; and what inquiries are being instituted in connection with the fires at Messrs. A. V. Roe's works with a view to finding out their cause.

During the last twelve months, I have been informed of three serious and seven minor fires in such factories. All the serious fires and three of the minor ones were at the A. V. Roe works, and I understand that local inquiries into their causes are still in progress. I have so far received reports on the first two of the three serious fires.

Are the taxpayers fully covered against possible losses, either direct or indirect, resulting from these incidents?

I understand that the fires have had only a limited effect on production, so that that is something. I cannot give any further answer to my hon. and gallant Friend's supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department by what authority the Metropolitan Police confiscated a pack of cards and about two shillings in threepenny bits from four members of the Scottish Boxing Association at London Airport on 9th March; and whether he will cause this property to be returned to its owners.

The Metropolitan Police were not concerned in any such incident.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, since these events happened in the Metropolitan Police area and were carried out, apparently, by a police force with ranks very similar to or, indeed, identical with those of the Metropolitan Police, the Press reports inevitably brought the Metropolitan Police into quite undeserved discredit? As this could affect the relationship between the police and the public, will the right hon. Gentleman consider asking the Royal Commission to look into this question of independent police forces, which are not under his control, in the Metropolitan Police area for which he is the police authority?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question will draw attention to the fact that this was not a duty, or part of the duties, of the Metropolitan Police. I hope that the Royal Commission will note the exchanges between the right hon. Gentleman and myself.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will introduce legislation to enable him to prevent the sale to the public of dangerous domestic oil burners.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) how many portable drip-feed radiant oil heaters have been imported into this country since 7th March; and whether British manufacturers are still releasing heaters of the class he described for sale to the public;

The result of my discussions with the manufacturers of portable drip-feed radiant oil heaters are announced in the Answer that I gave on Tuesday to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Dr. D. Johnson). The House may agree that the prompt action taken by the manufacturers deals as effectively as possible with most aspects of the immediate situation.

Is it the intention of the right hon. Gentleman to convey that he is considering introducing legislation? Is he aware that many people are worried that this should be left wholly to voluntary agreement; that new manufacturers might enter the market and produce these things and, of course, that imports have to be dealt with? Imports cannot be dealt with by voluntary arrangements between our own manufacturers in this country.

The consideration I have in mind is that there are, so to speak. certain gaps. One is the import question I have examined reports and, on the advice I have received, they seem to be very small at present, although that is one point which we ought to bear in mind. Another is that although a standard may be set up, not everyone will be a member of an association. In answering the right hon. Gentleman I had in mind that we have asked the Committee on Consumer Protection to look at other physical hazards in the home not confined to these oil heaters. If we contemplate legislation, I hope for an early report from the Committee as to whether there are other aspects which ought to be considered.

Could the Home Secretary give an assurance that none of the 500,000 oil heaters which are at present in the pipeline between manufacturers and the public will be sold to the public until they have been modified to make them safe? Will he bear in mind that 900 fires were caused last year by imported oil heaters from Holland? Could he give the House an assurance that in future any imported oil heaters will be clearly marked as imported before they are sold to the public, because obviously the difficulty of modifying them is greater?

That latter point will need consideration with my colleagues principally concerned, and I undertake to give it consideration. The undertakings given by the trade are that it will ensure that all heaters manufactured in future will conform with the new British standard and, secondly, that, with the distributive trade, it will modify unsold heaters to bring them up to the new standard of draught performance.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say whether he is satisfied that adequate gadgets will be made available to enable the 3 million oil heaters now in the hands of the public to be converted to make them safe in future?

The trade has offered facilities to the public, where required, so to modify their heaters. It is up to the public who are in possession of drip-feed heaters of this type to approach manufacturers with a view to getting those facilities.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what instructions were given to the police with regard to traffic movements in Lime Grove, W.12, while a British Broadcasting Corporation film unit was operating there from midnight on Sunday, 14th February, to 5 a.m. on Monday, 15th February.

I am informed by the Commissioner of Police that no special police dispositions were required on this occasion.

That is all very well, but police permission was sought for the road to be closed. This action resulted in the B.B.C. keeping my constituents awake half the night—people who have to go to work early in the morning. The police ought not to assist in this "midnight madness" in my constituency. Is the Home Secretary aware that relations between the B.B.C. and my constituents and the local authority over this and similar issues are just about as bad as they could be? Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that I am "having a go" at him only because I cannot get a Question past the Table to the Postmaster-General? Will he give an undertaking, or consult with the Postmaster-General, to see that this kind of thing is not repeated because, although the B.B.C. offered apologies, there is no assurance from the B.B.C. that this kind of thing will not be repeated?

I am sorry to find myself the accidental victim of the hon. Member's wrath. It is not for me to convey representations to the Postmaster-General about matters over which he has no control. The only complaint was received at twelve minutes past 3 a.m. That complaint was very easily dealt with because at that time the shooting of this film had in fact ceased. The position is that Lime Grove is a very quiet one-way street where there is no traffic. Prima facie, it was a reasonable place for the taking of this film and the police were on patrol, so, if there were any question of nuisance arising, they would have been able to deal with it.

The hon. and learned Gentleman is either crazy or just does not know—or both. Lime Grove is certainly a one-way street. The B.B.C. occupies it by parking cars—

Order. The hon. Member must not allow the recital to his supplementary Question to be too long.

What I am trying to do is to make sure that the questions and the answers are understood by the people concerned. Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the action by the Corporation monopolised the whole of the road with the parking of cars, constant to-ing and fro-ing all night long until the early hours and the accelerating and starting-up of cars? This latest action in promoting a rock-and-roll film at 3 o'clock in the morning is a/bout as much as my constituents can stand. They want no more of it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what guidance is given to the Metropolitan Police about publicity in the early stages of murder cases before the apprehension of a murderer.

It is entirely for the Commissioner to decide upon publicity in a particular case.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, as in a number of recent: cases there has been a great deal of publicity, with photographs of people likely to be chief witnesses, this might constitute danger to those witnesses and not be in the public interest because it might deter other witnesses coming forward, as in the Birmingham case? This is particularly undesirable where children are involved. Will he give advice to the Metropolitan Police so that other forces may heed it also?

There are cases where publicity is useful and others where it is very dangerous, as the hon. Member suggests. These matters have been and will be drawn to the attention of the Commissioner.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department to what extent his proposals for amending the licensing laws in respect of clubs have been circulated to church and temperance organisations.

My right hon. Friend has consulted only organisations directly concerned with the constitution and management of clubs; but if any other bodies such as church or temperance organisations wish to comment on the present proposals he will gladly take account of their views.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him to request the Home Secretary to keep the same association with these bodies on this issue as he had with them during his tenure of office at the Ministry of Education? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the conversations he had with these bodies on those occasions were very successful and beneficial and that it might be to his advantage and to theirs if he continued consultations on this matter?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend will bear that in mind. Meanwhile, if any of these organisations wishes to see a copy of the proposals, it can apply for one and it will be sent.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has now completed his study of the views of the Governments of Commonwealth and Colonial Territories regarding the deportation of their nationals convicted in this country of certain offences; and with what result.

These consultations have not disclosed a unanimity of view, and, while the situation will continue to be watched, early legislation is not in contemplation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that of 138 convictions for living on immoral earnings in the Metropolitan Police area in 1959, no fewer than 76, or over 50 per cent., were attributable to colonial immigrants? Will he give an assurance that he will not be deflected from his responsibility for law and order in this country out of consideration for certain Colonies which are unwilling to receive back those nationals who have forfeited all claim to the hospitality of this country through committing such crimes?

I have not the exact figures before me but I will note the figures given by my hon. Friend. As for the possibility of legislation, there is no unanimity in our consultations, and there is a good deal of opinion here that the old tradition of this country should not be broken. For myself, I think that there would be certain advantages in this step, but I think we ought to proceed with a certain degree of agreement. I do not think that at the moment any great violence is being done to the prosecution of law and order.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why Her Majesty's Government failed to ratify the 1950 International Convention for the Protection of Birds.

Because the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, differs in several respects from the requirements of the Convention.

Will my right hon. Friend publish in HANSARD the full discrepancies, for it would be very interesting to read them?

I will consider whether that can be done. They are quite extensive and they concern particularly the protection of eggs.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that freedom of speech and of lawful assembly are being prevented by Fascist threats to break up meetings; and whether he will ensure that adequate police protection is available in the Metropolitan area to all organisations that suffer such threats of violence.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware of the insults and violence directed, in several parts of London, against people engaged in peaceful propaganda in support of the boycott of South African goods; and whether he will take steps to end this situation and so enable law-abiding citizens to enjoy their rights.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what directions he has given to the Metropolitan Police, in view of the organised disturbances which are wrecking certain meetings in London.

I have received reports from the Commissioner of Police of a small number of incidents involving disturbances at public meetings and minor damage to property. The police will take all practicable steps to give protection where it is needed and will take firm action when any breach of the peace is threatened.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make that known to all the borough councils in London in view of the recent decision by the Chelsea Borough Council not to allow a hall under its control to be used for a public meeting which was to have been addressed by Lady Paken-ham, Lady Violet Bonham-Carter and Lord Altrincham, because of the threats by a small Fascist band that they would smash up the hall and destroy the meeting? Will he let the Chelsea Borough Council, in particular, know that it should not surrender to these undemocratic threats?

I cannot assume the responsibilities of local authorities, but the wider my Answer is read, the happier I shall be.

Will the Home Secretary make it quite clear that any organisation of law-abiding people can conduct a meeting and express controversial views with the assurance that they will be protected from violence?

Yes, Sir. This is a free country and the more opportunities for freedom of speech, the better things will be. The police understand their duties in this respect, and I think that the organisers of meetings understand their duties. I certainly give the undertaking that the police will attempt to preserve the freedom of speech.

Does the Home Secretary appreciate that there is a feeling among some of us, who have eyewitness experience of some of these meetings, that some of the police do not quite appreciate that it is their duty to protect people who are being insulted from the people who are insulting them? Would he draw the attention of the Commissioner of Police to the fact that it is necessary that policemen should understand the Public Order Act. 1936, and exercise it in favour of protecting people who are receiving rather rough treatment from the Fascists?

I have here six accounts of incidents, which is all I can find recently. In each case, I think, the police have acted with propriety. It is most important that they should so act. I hope that the House agrees that it is their normal duty to enforce, for example, Section 5 of the Public Order Act, to which the hon. Member referred.

Does my right hon. Friend recollect that before the war answers almost similar to those which he has given today were given by representatives of the Home Office but that, nevertheless, Fascist organisations created disturbances which were a disgrace to this capital city? Will he undertake at any rate that things will not be allowed to go as far as that?

Yes, Sir. In the recent administration of public order by the police I do not think that things have got out of hand. We are fully aware of the importance of public order. The point made by my hon. Friend will be borne in mind.

Is it not extremely important to prevent the mere threat of disorder from leading to people who control halls withdrawing the use of those halls from law-abiding citizens who want to meet there? Will not the right hon. Gentleman agree with me that this is the most important aspect?

Yes, naturally; but there are limits which my power cannot reach —namely, halls owned and occupied by local authorities.

Is the Home Secretary further aware that while, after the Trafalgar Square demonstration was over, the police behaved with great vigour and efficiency, while the demonstration was going on groups of Fascist hooligans in cars were circling the demonstration, which was peaceful, and were spitting at the participants in the demonstration, giving the Hitler salute, shouting "Sieg Heil" and deliberately taking action designed to provoke a breach of the peace? Does not he agree that it is time to take action against a bunch of hired Fascists directed by people who were traitors during the war?

I will leave the description of incidents to the hon. Member. After examining that incident, I am satisfied that the police acted with strength and propriety.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects to receive advice on proposed changes in the law of suicide from the Criminal Law Revision Committee.

I cannot yet say. The Committee is aware that I am anxious to have its report this summer and I have no doubt that it will submit it as soon as it conveniently can.

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, I have been pressing him very patiently for over two years on this subject. Will he now go so far as to say that, subject to this matter being satisfactorily resolved by the Criminal Law Revision Committee, the Government will in the fairly near future introduce legislation to amend the law?

Yes, I should like to do so. I think that it would be difficult to do it in this Session, but I think Chat we ought to do it in the near future, provided that the Report is satisfactory.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in this respect Scottish law is well ahead of our law in England, and will he do his best as quickly as possible to bring us up to the standards of Scotland?

We have certainly borrrowed quite a lot from Scottish law lately, including diminished responsibility, and I must say that one's admiration for it increases.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proposals he has for introducing legislation to amend those Sections of the Representation of the People Act, 1949, which deal with persons suffering from mental disorder, following the passage of the Mental Health Act, 1959.

There are arguments for and against the repeal of the provision of which the effect is that a patient in an establishment maintained for the treatment of mental illness or disorder is not regarded as being resident there for the purpose of the franchise. At present, however, my right hon. Friend has no legislation on the subject in view.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the present law acts very capriciously and unfairly with regard to voluntary patients? Now that the voluntary patient is superseded by the informal patient under the Mental Health Act, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that, for voting purposes, the time has come to treat the informal patient in exactly the same way as patients in other types of hospitals?

I think there is something in what the hon. Gentleman said. But, despite the greatly enlightened approach to mental health, I think the hon. Gentleman will agree that probably there would be patients who would be embarrassed by having their name on the Register. My right toon. Friend is examining many of these aspects of the Representation of the People Act, and he will have regard to this question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he proposes to introduce the Group Council Scheme into all Her Majesty's prisons; and if he will make a statement on this experiment.

The object of group counselling is to help inmates to think out their attitude to society, to authority and to their own future by means of free discussion in a small group with a member of the staff. The system is in operation in six prisons and five Borstals, and I am arranging for its extension to three more prisons and three more Borstals. Whether it will prove desirable or practicable to use it in all prisons I cannot yet say.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will consider the award of compensation to any prisoner who has had an accident arising from an organised game among prisoners in a dormitory or on parade, as a result of which he finishes his prison sentence in an unfit condition for work.

Arrangements exist for the payment of ex-gratia compensation to prisoners injured during sentence in circumstances which would have attracted an award under the National Insurance (Industrial Injuries) Act, 1946, had they been in insurable employment in outside industry. They do not, however, apply to the sort of incident which I understand the hon. Member has in mind. To pay compensation in this sort of case would be giving prisoners preferential treatment at the taxpayers' expense.

Can the Minister say whether it is the present policy to keep the financial position sound regarding National Insurance? If an accident occurred, arising out of negligence within the prison due to carelessness or lack of supervision on the part of the authorities, and if that were admitted, would the authorities be liable?

My answer covers that point. The object is to put a prisoner in the same position as that of an injured person in the outside world. In this case the position would be covered by National Assistance.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will place in the Library of the House copies of the Civil Defence manuals, leaflets and other literature issued to local authorities and Civil Defence organisations.

Copies of all Civil Defence manuals and publications circulated by the Home Office to local authorities are already sent to the Library. If the hon. Member has any other document in mind, perhaps he would be good enough to let me have particulars.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when this Question was put down, and up until last Thursday, I could find none of the literature in the Library to which I referred in the Question? In view of his Answer, can the hon. and learned Gentleman assure us that it has been brought up to date so as to tell the farmer, for example, how he will manage to bring in his cattle, round up his chickens and store away his eggs properly and safely all within the four-minute warning period now afforded to him?

I will make sure that the information in the possession of the Library is up to date.

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman now answer the important part of my supplementary question, the second part?

I think that any question about the detailed content of any of this literature would be much better the subject of a separate Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the number and the functions of scientific intelligence officers in the Civil Defence Corps.

The number of scientific intelligence officers trained and under training in the Civil Defence Corps in England, Scotland and Wales is 1,519. Their primary function in civil defence operations would be to act as scientific advisers to the Civil Defence controllers. They would be responsible for the task of analysing and interpreting scientific and technical information, especially about radioactive fall-out.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the gap between the knowledge of these officers, as contained in the volume I got from the Library, and the knowledge of the general public in regard to these matters is absolutely incredible? Does that gap exist because his office realises that no defence of the civil population is possible against the nuclear deterrent? If his office believes it to be possible, and in view of the fact that it is not doing so, will he consider creating a Ministry of Civil Defence to see that the job is done properly?

The hon. Member's supplementary question raises a very wide issue indeed. In the first place, I deny any suggestion that there is a lack of desire and intention to keep the public fully informed on this matter. The Civil Defence organisations throughout the country, to their very great credit, are doing their best to tell the public of the very large amount which can be done by way of protection against fall-out. As to the scientific intelligence officers and the part they play, I wish to pay a tribute to the work done by these volunteers, all of whom are drawn from those who have really good scientific qualifications. The part which they are playing compares favourably with the part played by anyone else in public life.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps he has taken, or proposes to take, to adapt his civil defence policy to the short notice of the arrival of rockets expected from the Fylingdales early warning station; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, in view of the reference in the Defence White Paper to the development of the civil defence warning and monitoring system, what steps he is taking to bring up to date the warning system outlined in pamphlet No. 2 of Volume 1 of the Civil Defence Manual published in 1956, providing for a fall-out warning system supplementary to an attack warning system, in order to relate both to the short notice of the arrival of rockets expected from the Fylingdales early warning station; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what modifications in civil defence policy have been made necessary by the proposed establishment of the Fylingdales early warning station.

As I informed the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Zilliacus) on 28th January last, developments in missiles do not affect the need to plan to take full advantage for civil defence purposes of any period of alert. Arrangements are being made under which it will be possible to distribute a warning originated at Fylingdales Moor to warning points throughout the country in a matter of seconds. No alteration is required in the planned development of the United Kingdom warning and monitoring system.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recollect that as far back as 21st November, 1957, he assured me that the Government's civil defence policy rested on the proposition that they would have sufficient advance notice of the outbreak of hostilities to evacuate 12 million people? What has happened in the present circumstances to the policy of evacuation? When will he be able to give us a report on that?

If the hon. Member wishes to put a Question on the Paper about evacuation, I will answer it. I think that he fails on every occasion when he asks such a Question to differentiate between the final warning which would come from Fylingdales and the general period of alert which we could reasonably expect in a time of tension. It is that period of alert which can be used to such advantage by our civil defenders.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept the view expressed by Sir Frederick Brundrett yesterday that the defence of this country from rockets is never likely to be possible? If so, is he saying that he is devising a system of communications which will enable the ordinary citizen to take effective protective measures in a space of four minutes?

No, Sir. That again illustrates that the hon. Member and his hon. Friends are quite unable to differentiate between the general alert in a period of tension and the final four-minute warning. It is in the longer period that we should be able to do something useful in the realm of civil defence. It is no tribute to our people to say that they are not able to take advantage of civil defence to the extent to which we have been able to organise it.

Is the Home Secretary really trying to convey the impression that there is some effective means of protecting the civil population against the kind of threat for which the Fylingdales station is being established? Would it not be better for him to be as honest as the former Minister of Defence and admit that there is no means of protecting the civil population of Britain against the kind of threat for which Fylingdales is being established as a warning station?

Anybody with intelligence must realise that the age in which we live is a fearful and a frightful one, and that these weapons are equally fearful and frightful. They would be equally pessimistic if they thought that the whole population, or at any rate the majority of it, would necessarily suffer from these attacks. We must work on the principle that there will be survivors if such attacks take place. It is because we realise that there must be hope that we continue with our sound and patient plans on civil defence.

Is not the real truth that the Fylingdales warning system is of value to the United States in giving that country some time to get its aeroplanes off the ground, of possibly some very remote value to us to do the same, but of no conceivable value for civil defence?

Things are, as is usual with the right hon. Gentleman, not so easy as he at first imagined they would be. I hope, however, that we shall all survive in the same way as he has recently survived. I would add only that there is a strategic value in Fylingdales for our own defence. For our own civil defence there is only a modified value owing to the length of time, but what is important for civil defence is to take advantage of the strategic period before a warning to do what we can to defend our population.

asked the Prime Minister whether, at the forthcoming meeting of Commonwealth Prime Ministers, he will suggest the desirability of holding alternative meetings in Commonwealth capitals other than London.

No, Sir. I have reason to believe that on practical grounds my fellow Prime Ministers in the Commonwealth prefer these meetings to be held in London.

asked the Prime Minister to what extent access to the official documents referred to in Sir Anthony Eden's book was restricted to Sir Anthony Eden; to what extent permission was given for such documents to be seen by persons acting for him; and what revision of procedure is necessary in order to avoid discrimination between ex-Ministers who may seek access to Cabinet documents.

A former Minister may refresh his memory by looking again at official papers which he saw when he was in office. The general rule is that he should look at them within the Department concerned. But exceptions from this rule have occasionally been made in special circumstances; on some occasions papers have been sent on loan to the former Minister's house or responsible research assistants working on his behalf have been allowed to see them in the Department. Such an exception was made in favour of Sir Anthony Eden. It seems to me to be justifiable that this sort of discrimination should, very occasionally, be made in favour of former Ministers who, like Sir Anthony Eden, are in poor health and working at some considerable distance from London. These special arrangements do not, of course, affect in any way the control exercised over what is published.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that it was not my purpose to suggest anything derogatory of Sir Anthony Eden's conduct in seeking access to papers through some other person in view of the state of his health? Do I understand from what the right hon. Gentleman said that, in future, there will be no discrimination whatever regarding the desire of ex-Ministers to obtain access to Cabinet documents in which they were interested?

There will be no discrimination. I have tried to exercise during my period of responsibility exactly the same system as was exercised by my predecessors. There, are of course, special circumstances with particular people which may be taken into account, but I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the general rule laid down by Lord Morrison of Lambeth will be exercised without discrimination.

Is the Prime Minister aware that Lord Morrison in his statement specifically referred to being reasonably flexible in administering this rule as regards the war period? Lord Morrison specifically illustrated it by a reference to the right hon. Member for Woodford (Sir W. Churchill). Is the right hon. Gentleman aware also that, while it is obviously essential that there should be no discrimination in granting access to documents relating to a particular period, many of us feel that the procedure now adopted is administered rather too laxly and that from a certain point onward it might be desirable to have a stricter administration?

Yes, I think that that point was raised by the right hon. Gentleman before and I said that, of course, one's natural tendency was to follow the precedents laid down by one's predecessors. I think that there is something in the idea that war is a special period and might be treated separately and some new functions, perhaps a little stricter, decided upon. It is not an easy matter. I am devoting some thought to it and before making any change I would certainly consult with the right hon. Gentleman.

I think that we should be clear about what the Prime Minister means. Does he mean that where public security is involved there would be rather stricter administration, but that apart from public security there would be no restriction whatever?

I would have thought not. I should have thought that it was a question of security.

asked the Prime Minister if he is aware that, of the 667 members of 70 Royal Commissions and Committees of Inquiry, not more than 16 were Members of Parliament; and if he will give instructions to Ministers with the object of their asking a larger number of Members of Parliament to serve on such Commissions and Inquiries.

I think it is best to maintain the utmost flexibility in this matter, since the aim must always be to secure the services of those best qualified to take part. There are of course occasions when the understanding and experience of hon. Members qualify them particularly for appointment to Royal Commissions or Committees of Inquiry, and I am sure that this is a factor which Ministers do not overlook.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Does he agree that perhaps more invitations of this nature might provide something of an antidote to those problems of ennui in this House which were referred to by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour in his speech yesterday?

We are always interested in literary curiosities. I was rather interested in reading The Times today that it had not recognised a quotation from a very famous essay by Mr. Augustine Birrell which my right hon. Friend quoted, written, I think, about thirty years ago.

asked the Prime Minister, in view of the protracted nature of the current negotiations, if he will raise once again with the President of the United States of America, the question of British wool textile exports to the United States of America.

The President of the United States is well aware of Her Majesty's Government's anxiety that the negotiations should be completed without undue delay. The necessary procedures inevitably take a considerable time, but I am told that the United States authorities are moving as quickly as they can.

Is not the Prime Minister aware that a Motion on this subject has been signed by many of his hon. Friends? If the right hon. Gentleman was right to raise this topic with the President of the United States on television before the General Election, would not he think it right to raise it personally once again now that the 1960 quota has been imposed?

That is exactly what we have done, and all the procedures which the President promised that he would follow are being followed.

asked the Prime Minister what use has been made by any Government Department, during the last twenty years, of the psychological technique of inducing in prisoners disintegration of personality followed by emotional attachment to an interrogator, the process commonly known as brain-washing, for the purpose of obtaining confessions from prisoners or influencing their future conduct.

asked the Prime Minister to what extent techniques of brain-washing have been developed by the security organisations of Her Majesty's Government; and in what circumstances they have been employed.

The techniques to which these Questions refer have never been used by any organisation responsible to Her Majesty's Government.

Is the Prime Minister aware that his Answer will give widespread satisfaction, but is it not unfortunate that an earlier statement was not made completely dissociating ourselves from these abominable practices when the matter first received publicity?

I understood that a statement on the subject was made. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for war was questioned on the subject and made the position clear as far as he was concerned. At any rate, I am grateful to the hon. Member for putting down the Question so that I can make it clear on behalf of the Government of this country, of whatever party, and of the whole people, that we have not, never did and never would indulge in practices of this kind.

While recognising that such an assurance will be accepted with great satisfaction, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to bear in mind that there are people in this country who will receive his statement with some surprise, having regard to their own experiences during the war? Does he not think it desirable to set up some proper commission or committee of inquiry to see whether the statement which he has made is in accordance with the facts?

I could not undertake to set up a committee of inquiry to find out whether what I have just said is true.

Does the Prime Minister say that he repudiates everything that was said by the gentleman who raised this issue, that that gentleman had no authority to say these things, had no experience—

Order. The Prime Minister cannot be asked to comment on the speech of some unofficial person.